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Alright, well everyone welcome to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. Today we're

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going to talk a little bit about social media, SEO. If you have no idea what SEO means, you're

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going to learn all about it today from our guest Brandon. So Brandon, it's great to have you on.

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Why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? Yeah, thanks for having me on. My name

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is Brandon Lebowitz and I've been involved with digital marketing since 2007, helping people get

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more visibility and exposure online. Got my degree in business marketing and after I graduated, the

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first time I got out of school was helping a company out with digital marketing and I didn't

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really know much about it. They said, don't worry, we don't know much either. We're going to learn

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what to you and take you to classes and workshops and seminars and this is back in 2007. And after

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doing that for a few months, just kind of realized this is probably the future. Everyone's probably

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got a website in the future and there's lots of different ways to get traffic, such as like social

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media, running paid ads, doing email marketing, doing search engine optimization, but we'll just

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focus more on the SEO side of things because it's a way to get free traffic. And I always thought,

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why spend money on paid ads? If you can get up there for free and over the years I've worked

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at different advertising agencies as a director of SEO, but also realized that I could work

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and pick up like build a freelance business up by finding clients that aren't a conflict of interest.

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So when I was working at these agencies, most of the clients were like e-commerce businesses. So

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I was able to go to like a local restaurant or doctor or lawyer or whatever it may be,

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that's a local business and essentially offer them my services to see if they need help with SEO and

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built that up by working before work, after work, on my lunch breaks, on my own company and built

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that up to where as I would eventually quit my job and focus solely on this and really been doing

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that ever since, just helping people tap into that free traffic from Google. Yeah, well,

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it's great to have you on and then let's start with just that SEO. You've already mentioned

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what that is, but for somebody that's listening, like what on earth is SEO? What's kind of that

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over 10,000 photo overview, basic explanation of what SEO even is. So SEO is search engine

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optimization, which means optimizing websites for search engines. So when you're searching

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on Google, which Google kind of runs the show, there's ads at the top. Those are all paid ads.

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Right below the ads are the organic, the free listings and SEO is all about getting you

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in those free listings. There's 10 spots on that first page of Google that list out websites. So

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we're trying to get your website listed on that first page of Google. So you can get that free

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traffic without having to spend money on paid ads. So it's really just trying to tap into that free

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Google traffic. Gotcha. Yeah. And like you mentioned, their free Google traffic, you said

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free is better than paid. I mean, pretty much every way. So you're obviously an expert at this.

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You've been doing this for quite some time. Let's start back in that 2007 timeframe.

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What was different back then? How did you get your feet wet and learn more about it?

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That was way before my days of having a website and everything. So what was that like kind of

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pioneering back in those days? It was a lot easier because there's less competition. So the more

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competition, the tougher it becomes back then. Like you said, you didn't have a website. Most

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people didn't have websites nowadays. It's a little too easy to build a website on WordPress or

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Shopify or Wix or Squarespace where anyone could build a website, throw it up in a few hours and

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start becoming a competitor. So it's a lot more. It's a lot tougher nowadays back then. It was

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much easier. And for the most part, everything is still similar to what Google is looking at in

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the search engine, the algorithms. It's just changed a little bit because people found loopholes and

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ways to kind of game the system, which search engines, they know, we don't want you to find

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these loopholes. We don't want you to gain the system and find these shortcuts. We want you to

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work to build it up. So essentially, like all the algorithm updates are like really just trying to

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stop spam, like cleaning up spam and people have figured found loopholes and game the system. And

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I mean, the only major updates that really have a big impact are like back in 2013,

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Google said, mobile is taking over. And if your website's not mobile friendly,

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we're not going to show you on mobile devices, which nowadays accounts for over half the traffic to

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any website or every website loads slowly. We're not going to like that. So every once in a while,

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they'll let you know what they're doing. But most of the time, they don't really tell you what they're

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doing. They kind of keep it secret. But as long as you're not spamming, then you don't really have

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to worry about any of those updates, because that's really what they're doing is trying to just clean

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up the results and provide the best user experience. Because if someone searches on Google,

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goes to your website, and then it loads slowly or it doesn't look good on mobile, that's a bad

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easier experience. And you probably hit that back button. And Google doesn't want you to do that.

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They want you to find what they're looking like you're looking for as quickly and as easily as

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possible. So the easier you make it for people to find what they're looking for on your website,

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the more Google is going to reward you with more traffic and higher rankings in the search results.

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Yeah. That all that sounds, you know, fairly, fairly basic. Yeah, I get this

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website built up. It needs to be be relevant to goes on the Google search engine, it needs to load

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fast. Okay, fine. That that that won't take me very long. It'll just take me 10 seconds and I

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master it, right? Like, of course not. There's more that goes into that. So why is this, why can

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it be a little besides just the competition? Like you said, why might it be a little intimidating

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for people to try to tackle SEO issues all on their own? Well, Google doesn't really care what you

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put on the website. So all that stuff, like making changes to your website, building a website,

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putting keywords on it, doesn't do anything. Because it's too easy. Google knows that anyone

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could build a website. That doesn't mean that you're real, legitimate, credible, trustworthy.

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Because again, Google doesn't want to rank a website and then find out that you're selling

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like shoes online and you're selling fake Nike's or something like that, or you're just stealing

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people's credit card information. So they want you to build up trust. And the way to build trust

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is by getting what are called backlinks, getting other websites to talk about you, the more websites

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that talk about you, that are related to what you're doing, the more trust Google is going to give

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to you. And then they look at those keywords on your website, but it doesn't work the other way

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around without building backlinks. It's pretty much impossible to rank on Google. And what is a

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backlink? A backlink is a clickable link from another website that points to yours. So let's say

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you're reading an article on Forbes.com in there, it says Brandon Leibowitz and you click on it and

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it goes to my website. I'd be getting a backlink from Forbes.com. So the more websites that talk

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about you, it's kind of like a popularity contest, the more trustworthy Google sees you as. And but

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yeah, there's so many other variables. That's why it's tough because SEO is like a puzzle. There's

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a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Some are bigger than others like the content on your website.

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The backlinks are two really big pieces of that puzzle, but there's so many little tiny things

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that have those impacts that it gets a little tricky with Google. They don't make it the easiest.

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They make it seem straightforward and easy, but there's so many little nuances and technical

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details that it gets a little tricky. Yeah, kind of sticking on the topic of backlinks.

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That's something if, you know, if anybody saw the title to this episode and like look up SEO,

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what's SEO and backlinks inevitably is going to be something that pops up when you're looking

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at SEO. So that makes sense of somebody is backlinking me. So good. That's communicating to Google.

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Okay, this website probably is something that's trustworthy. So let's say I'm a new business

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owner. I'm trying to get my website out there to all sorts of different people. How do I get

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those backlinks? How do I get people to communicate back to me and to show Google that I'm really

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legitimate? Well, there's a lot of different ways to build backlinks. The best way is look at your

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competition, spy on your competitors, easy paid tools. You have to pay for these tools. They're

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about like $100 a month or so. So just pick one of them. Like Ahrefs is pretty popular.

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Or Moz or some rush. I just like pick one, use that tool and then go into Google search for your

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keywords and make a list of all the websites that appear because these are your competitors.

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Even though they might not be your competitor offline, if they rank on that first page of

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Google for your keywords, they are your competitor online. Like let's say you're a restaurant and

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you search on Google and you see that Yelp appears. You're like Yelp is not my competitor. But if

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they're ranking for your keywords, technically they are. You might have 20 other restaurants

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in your city, but if none of them rank on that first page of Google, then they're not really

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your competitors online offline. They're your competitors, but online got to figure out who

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your competition is, who ranks for your keywords and then throw make a list of all those websites

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and then throw them into those tools and you can see all of their backlinks. And if they're on that

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first page of Google, Google is definitely rewarding them because of those backlinks. So if you could

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look at those backlinks and find out which ones are relevant and authoritative and reach out to

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those sites to see if they potentially link out to you. Because if they're linking to your competitor,

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they'd probably link to you. You just got to get creative and figure out what did your competition

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do? Did they write an article? Did they get an interview? Did they do a blog post? Are they a

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local business? Are they on the Yelp? Are they on Google Maps? Are they on Apple Maps? Are they on

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like the BBB? Did they join like a Chamber of Commerce? Do they like sponsor a trade show and

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got a backlink? And you're pretty much reverse engineer in their entire strategy and see how

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they've gotten that traction, what they've been doing and then you try to replicate that as much

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as possible. You're not going to be able to replicate everything because you just some of those

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websites here and be 10, 20 years old that you're not able to reach out to these sites. But you want

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to try to find as many sites that are related to what you're doing and authoritative. You don't

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want to just go for any website. You got to make sure that they're niche related and they have some

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authority to it because if you feel the wrong type of backlinks instead of ranking higher,

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you're going to actually drop down, which we don't want that to happen. We want you to rank higher.

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We don't want you to fall down those results. Do you have some more examples of the bad

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backlink side of things? What are some examples of a bad backlink, so to speak?

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I mean, so like if you're, let's say, selling shoes online and you're getting a backlink from a

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pharmaceutical company or a gambling company or like anything that doesn't really align,

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that would be a bad backlink. Or it's like if you're based in the United States and you're getting

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backlinks from other countries or other languages, that's also a negative sign to signal to Google.

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So I'll come down to just thinking like, all right, if I'm selling shoes in the United States,

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what type of websites would link out to someone selling shoes? Probably like other websites,

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well, Japan, what type of footwear if you're selling like sports shoes and maybe like sporting

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websites or like, it's all about just understanding like what's related to what you're doing, maybe

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other manufacturers, designers, stuff like that, that that's going to be related to what you're

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doing. So it's all about relevancy. That's the big part is finding sites that are related to what

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you're doing, not just finding any random website, but finding sites that are at least somewhat related

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to what you're doing. The more related, the better, but it doesn't have to be exactly what you're doing.

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Like I'm an SEO company, probably not going to get other SEO companies to link out to me because

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we're all somewhat competitors. But if I could find websites related to like marketing, even

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traditional marketing like TV, print, radio, it doesn't have to be digital marketing or SEO,

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anything somewhat related to what you're doing, that's what Google wants to see.

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Yeah. So it's probably not the best idea of ideas just to say,

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Annie and everybody put my website on your website, but if it's in the ballpark,

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we definitely want that because that's still in Google that, yeah, I'm selling shoes and these

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warehouses or whatever are back linking me, but probably a legitimate website there. So that

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makes sense. Now I'm going to kind of rail on my hometown for a little bit. So I'm in a somewhat

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rural Oklahoma and not that nobody in town has heard of SEO and things of that nature, but

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it's not necessarily the talk of the town. It's usually you go to that restaurant because so-and-so

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owns it from so-and-so. It's a lot of word of mouth, which that obviously still matters.

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But their big thing, I know, I can't tell you how many times I've tried to Google a restaurant or

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something in my town and they don't have a website. So I go to their, I go to their social media page.

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I would imagine you would agree having some form of social media presence isn't a bad thing, but

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what would you say to somebody that says, well, why do I need a website? Because I have a Facebook.

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Every business in my town has Facebook, but they may not have a website. Why might that be an issue

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if they already have a Facebook? Why should they just go ahead and get a website too?

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Well, if they have a Facebook page and you go on their Facebook page,

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there's ads that promote other businesses there. And if you have a website, you're not going to

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promote other companies. You're going to promote yourself. You don't want people going to your

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website and then be like, oh, look at all these ads. I'm going to click on these ads. And then they

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forget about your service and maybe made five bucks from that ad, but you could have made

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whatever amount by having that person actually become a client and having them repeat business.

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So it's just really understanding that like Facebook, it's promoting other companies and

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it's not yours. They could take you down anytime and you just lost everything or Instagram or

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these platforms could take you down for any reason. Like you don't have any control. That's not

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yours. You're just renting space off these platforms. And that's the biggest issue. You're just

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renting space. Also engagement is really low or reach is really low, especially on like Facebook.

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So if you worked to build up that Facebook like 10 years ago and you have like a thousand likes

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on your Facebook page and you post 10 years ago, all of your ads are just like,

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you know, all thousand people would see what you post. Nowadays, about 5% of that audience will

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ever see what you post. So five out of a hundred people will see what you're posting. So if you

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have a thousand likes, 50 people will see what you're posting, which is good, but it's not a thousand

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that you work to build and build and build. And if you want to show it to those other 950 people,

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there's a little button on Facebook and Instagram that says boost this post up to show it to the

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rest of your audience, which essentially means you're like paying to play. Like these are all

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paid platforms nowadays. Social media used to be free, but now I mean, it's still free. But if you

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want that exposure and the reach, you have to play, you have to spend money on paid ads. So

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that's one thing is like, you're not going to be able to reach out to audience. And also you just

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have to understand like, who is your audience like for restaurants? Like I don't know how many people

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are going on Instagram to look for a restaurant. I mean, some people do, but most people are probably

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going to go on like yo, or Google to find a restaurant and then maybe check them out on social.

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It's like social proof to make sure that real legitimate have reviews or trustworthy. But

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in general, most people are probably going to go on Google first and then check you out on social.

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But you still should definitely have that presence on social media. Just understanding who your

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audience is and where are they like for ecom or like for sports and news that need definitely need

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to be on social media. Like anything sports related news music. Social is where you're going to get

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your traction because people really aren't going on Google looking for like new music. Some people

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might again, but majority of people are probably going to go on social or Spotify. So it's all

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about just knowing where your audience is and how to be in front of them at the right moments at

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the right times. And it's good to have the presence everywhere, but you don't want to put your all

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your eggs in one basket. And you also don't want to rely on social because if you just focused on

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Facebook only now you're like, I should have probably focused on Instagram or now I need to

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focus on TikTok and have to start all over again and rebuild that audience. It's not that easy

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getting an audience from Instagram to TikTok or to Twitter or vice versa, even though they

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know who you are. It's really, really tough to get them to cross platform change over and follow

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you on a new platform. So that's why having your website, CRS, you have full control, you

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know, put out what you want. No one's ever going to take you down. I mean, Google could drop you

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down in rankings, but you still own that website that's yours forever and you promote yourself.

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You don't promote other companies and you get that reach and visibility and it's just

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it's a way to brand yourself and get yourself some real visibility exposure.

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Yeah, absolutely. And that's something in my short timeframe. I've got for this podcast,

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have my own podcast website, but also more importantly for my counseling practice,

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have really seen that that importance there that, yeah, that website is mine and that's

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fundamentally different than social media. My page is kind of mine sort of, but not really.

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That's Facebook's. So I think that is a key difference there.

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On the topic of social media, have you found particular types of social media that are

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more important than others? Are there some that you should like, I really need to make sure I

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have a Facebook or really need to make sure I have an Instagram? Does it really matter what kind of

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social media presence you have? Oh, it really comes down to your audiences. Who is your audience

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and where are they? That's what matters. You don't need to be everywhere. I mean, it's good to

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like claim your username on all those platforms. So no one else could take it. But in general,

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being active, do you really need to be active all the time? Not necessarily. I mean, some platforms

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maybe, but it just depends on your audience. Like, where are they? Who are they and how do I engage

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with them? And like for myself, I do SEO, like not many people are really going to go on Instagram

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looking for an SEO company. So I'll post every once in a while, but it's not like I'm going all in,

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whereas like on YouTube, I could post a lot more people are looking for SEO related content on

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YouTube. So just trying to really understand who and where your audience is going and how to be

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in front of them when they're actually on those platforms. Yeah. Yeah. So it really does go into

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that awareness of what is my business and what, where are these customers at? And I'll just kind

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of throw my own two cents in there too. I've been kind of doing some of my own social media presence.

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And for me, maybe it's just the old soul in me. I don't really understand TikTok that much. It's

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just not, I'm not really a short form content kind of guy that's might have a longer form podcast.

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I'm just not going to go there. And other people can, people can be successful there, but I know

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myself as kind of what I'm looking forward to you and some of my audience members. So

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it really is a lot of those, those personal preferences there kind and your, your customer

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preferences too. On kind of the topic of social media and just even on your, on your site, on your

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website, it's one thing to have people to go to your social media or to go to your website. But

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it's another for them to actually follow through to actually get that sale in the end. So how do

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we go from just attracting people? Google sends us in. That's, that's great. But how do we get to

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the finish line? How do we turn all those followers into sales? Well, that is a tough part. It's not

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easy. And that's where it's got to figure out offering, well, especially with social media,

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it's tough to get people off of social media. Most social media locks you in there. They don't

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want you to leave. So you don't really get, especially like Instagram, you get like a bio link.

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And maybe you do like a swipe up story with a link, but other than that, there's not many ways for

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people to go to your website. So having like a good, like called action in your bio, offering

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something of value for free. It's going to incentivize people to go to your website. But even

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then once they go to your website, that doesn't mean anything either. Like visitors are just visitors,

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how do you get people to convert on your website? And that's where you got to really think about

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what's called conversion rate optimization is how do I optimize my website to maximize the value of

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every visitor, which some reason not many people really talk about too much. It's like, I'll just

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build a website and make it look nice and pretty, but you don't want a pretty website. You want a

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website that converts that traffic into sales leads, phone calls, whatever that conversion

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goal is. And that's where you have to understand that whatever someone sees on the screen, that's

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called above the fold. Most people don't scroll down on the website. So if you don't have a value

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proposition at the top, many people know what's in it for me, having your call to action at the top,

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like if your e-commerce websites just have the add to cart right there, but in right now,

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above the fold where they don't have to scroll down, or if you're a service-based business,

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you could have like a form right there or your phone number or email address, but you got to have

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some call to action above the fold value proposition, then maybe like couple bullet points or video or

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something that's easy to digest quickly because tension spans are just so short nowadays that

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if you have a long block of text, no one's going to want to read that. So shorter kind of little

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bullet points lower down on the page. You can have all these details and go deeper into it, but

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essentially on the top, you got to keep it clean, easy to navigate, more minimal, just really the

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things that need to be there. And again, kind of take a step back. If you're looking for your

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progress service, what would you want to see on this page? What's going to keep you engaged that

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you don't hit that back button and don't leave that website, maybe offering something for free,

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that we could capture people's email addresses as well, having like a pop up, like if you're

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e-commerce, they could give a discount, like anyone that's in first time customer gets 10%

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off, just give me your email address. If you're a service-based business, it's a little tougher,

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you got to create something like a class or e-book or something that you offer for free,

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collect those email addresses and then start content marketing through email, just offer value,

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don't promote yourself, just offer value and establish yourself as a subject matter expert or

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if you're selling products and establish yourself as an expert in that product, but whatever it is,

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you just got to offer value and offer tips and really that's going to be the best way to get

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someone to trust you to want to buy because you got to get Google to trust you to rank you in the

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search results. Once people get to your website, you got to get people to trust you. So it's two

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folds, you got to get search engines and people to trust you and getting people to trust you is

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probably harder than getting Google to trust you because Google is just a robot and there's

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kind of a formula, but people are people and everyone's unique and how do you really relate and

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get someone to want to learn more about your product or service? It's not the easiest.

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Yeah. Yeah, no, that's a really good point and something that I think is very important that

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you keep saying is value. That's something that I find important just in my relationship with others

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and how I want to treat people, not just in a business, but in day-to-day conversations,

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is am I bringing them value and am I bringing my wife value in the way that I'm treating her?

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Now, your customers to your website or you may not know them personally, but if you're just

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trying to take their money and that's my only goal, like of course we want to get their business,

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but we're not trying to rob them. We're trying to give them something that's worth their time

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and putting your best foot forward there, kind of going back to the, how would you like to be

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treated? How would you like to engage on a website? Yeah, I think that really goes down to it to not

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just see people as that robot, like the Google search engine, but seem as people and even if

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you don't interact with them personally, still treating them as people and treating them as

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somebody that's valued and giving them a good product or good service instead of just, yeah,

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give me all your money right now. That usually doesn't work very well on that website.

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No, no, people could see through it pretty quickly. So, yeah, got to offer value and be

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authentic and not just being in for that quick buck. Yeah, great, great. Now, let's say I'm a

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business owner and, okay, here are all this SEO stuff. That's great, but I don't have time to do

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all these backlinks and build that all up. I need this right now and they're going to look into that

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pay to play to do Google ads or social media ads. Where do you even start with that? I want to run

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ads, like they might be overwhelmed. Like how do you even manage an ad campaign like that for

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your website or social media? Well, that's again, knowing who your audience is and where they are

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because there's so many different ads that you can run that most people want to do social media

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ads, but they're cheaper for a reason because it's lower quality traffic. You're just interrupting

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people based off interest and topics, but they're not searching. Someone's searching on Google,

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they're searching, they're looking actively, they have that buyer intent behind it. So,

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it'll be a little bit more expensive to run Google ads, but that's where you're probably going to get

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a better return on your investment. And it's just really testing throwing everything against the wall,

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seeing what sticks, what resonates and pushing more money to that. Pull money away from what's

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not working because with Google ads, there's lots of different ads you can run with Google. You

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can do search ads where it's searching on Google. You see those ads at the top of Google. You do

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banner ads. You do Gmail ads. You can do YouTube ads. You can do discovery ads. There's so many

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different ads that Google has that it's all about kind of just testing and seeing what works and

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pushing more money to that, scaling back what's not working, just testing and optimizing. That's

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the biggest thing with the ads is don't just set it and forget it. Set them up. Test them out,

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see what works. Push more money to that. Pull money away from what's not working. Maybe females 40

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to 45 are clicking, but they're not converting. Cut them out. Maybe males 20 to 25 are clicking

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and they're actually becoming a client. Push more money to that. So, it's all about testing

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and testing and testing. That's the biggest thing with the paid ads. Well, just in general, with

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everything with digital is testing, but especially with the paid ads because you're paying every

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time someone clicks. Well, depending on how you pay, there's other ways where you pay per

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impression. So, anytime that a thousand people see your ad, you might spend $10. So, there's

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different ways, but you want to maximize that value because you don't want to just be wasting that

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money because the ads, they get quite expensive. They work. You're making a positive return on

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ad spend. I'd say keep running them. Something wrong with those ads, but just be aware that

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they do cost money and they can get a little pricey. So, that's where you want to try out

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all these different platforms because some will be less expensive than others. Google search ads,

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very, very expensive. YouTube ads, pretty cheap because not many people create the video. People

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don't want to put the creative video. It's a little bit more time invested whereas, so,

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less people are bidding on those video ads. It's going to be much cheaper. Everyone has a website.

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They just throw the website up saying, I want to rank for this search term. So, those become much

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more expensive, but the ones that require a little bit more work like banner ads, a little bit cheaper.

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YouTube ads much cheaper and doesn't mean much better. I feel like YouTube puts a face behind

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the company, builds trust up and it really helps out a lot. That's a really interesting piece.

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There I hadn't even really thought about that myself. It makes sense. It's that supply and

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demand type of thinking there. It's very easy to, like you said, every time that I go on Google,

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you see those top ads like that. We see it all the time. When you're on YouTube, you see it too,

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but you just don't think of it quite in the same way. It does seem to be more of a production

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quality and things like that, a little bit of a harder entry there. If you put in the work,

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I hadn't considered of the cost with that, but sounds like that could be a really good value

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if you're willing to put in that work to put the video in for that.

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Especially because YouTube also gives you 30 seconds free ad space. Someone watches your

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video ad for 29 seconds, then skips it, you don't pay a penny. After 30 seconds,

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then you pay like 10 cents or 20 cents a view. It's much, much cheaper. If they skipped it,

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like if they skip it after five seconds, they still heard you talk for five seconds. They

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still got a little bit of your message in there, not the full message, but at least they heard you,

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they saw you. So implants that scene. It's pretty much free ad space because YouTube knows that not

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many people make those videos. So they want to incentivize you to make these YouTube videos

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because they are really powerful. It's just that barrier to entry. But nowadays, with cell phones,

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you just grab your phone and do a video right there. You don't have to have the whole production.

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It's actually more authentic. People like that more than the whole production and commercial

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style type of video. Yeah. So those of you listening, if you're like, man, I really have this great

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idea. I have this great project, but this is so expensive. That might be something to think about

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of going down that more video route. It could be some decent bang for your buck.

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On this advertising side of things, I'm sure it depends on the company and where you're at. But

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have you found a sweet spot over how much paid advertising as opposed to how much SEO? Should

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I focus more effort solely on SEO, half and half SEO and ad space? Do you really have a good answer

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for that? I'd say it's different for every business, depending on where you are. If you're

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a startup, it's a brand new website, SEO is going to take months and months and months. So if you

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want immediate traction, paid ads might be a good start. Once you start getting that Google rank

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or the SEO starts kicking in, then maybe you could scale back a little bit off the paid ads. But

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if you're making the positive return on ad spend, I would say there's no reason to turn them off.

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As long as you're making more than you're putting in, then don't necessarily need to turn them off.

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But if you're losing money, then you definitely want to cut them out because we don't want to be

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bleeding money to any of these platforms. So as long as you're making a positive return, I would

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keep them going. But the main ads I really do like that I would always keep going are

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retargeting. So anyone that goes to your website, doesn't make a purchase. Like if you go on Amazon

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and you don't make that purchase, you see those ads that follow you around. You can do the same

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thing to your website. Anyone that goes to your website, doesn't do a specific action, like doesn't

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fill out a form, doesn't make a purchase, whatever it is, you could set up different ad

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campaigns. And these are all warm leads, warm traffic that have been to your website, but

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didn't convert. And that was your chance to try to get them to convert. And that's going to be much

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cheaper than doing a cold outreach campaign where you're just targeting random people. These are

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all people that have been to your website, something distracted them, maybe it loaded slowly,

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maybe it didn't look good on mobile or whatever it may be, but they were there. Now you just got to

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keep yourself top of mind. And those are really cheap and really effective.

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Yeah. Again, kind of that value word coming back in there, even on your end of things. You want

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to bring value to the customer, but you also want to get value out of you. You're the customer

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there for your ad. You want to get value on that end. And that seems to be a very attractive way

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to try to get those people that they already clicked. So let's try to get them to click back again.

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Yep. Yep. They were that close. Let's keep yourself top of mind. And it's going to be much

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easier to get someone like that versus a cold outreach campaign where you're just targeting

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people I've never heard of you. Yeah. Yeah. On some just another kind of practical type of question,

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I know this is one I've thought of myself on social media. And I know it kind of depends on

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again, what social media you're doing, but is there a better time of day to post things?

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Like, should I do it in the morning and the afternoon? Does it really matter?

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That one is also saying that it depends on your business. Like, let's say your concert venue,

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you're going to be like, all right, we got post Friday evening, Saturday, Sunday versus if you're

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like selling baby diapers, you're like, all right, one kind of reach parents when they have some

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free time, maybe early in the morning, or maybe after they drop their kids off at school or whatever

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it may be. So you got to kind of like take a step back and think like if you were your client or

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looking for your product or service, what times of the day would you be searching or do you have

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free time to actually look for it? I mean, in general, most people say post like Tuesday,

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Wednesday, Thursday from like, 9am to 11am. But that's not used to think, but now I realize it's

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not a one size fits all really depends on your business. Like, if you're doing sports, like,

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you could post 20 times a day, no one's going to be mad versus if I post about SEO 20 times a day,

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you're going to be like, what is going on? This is too much SEO. So it's all about really just

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understanding your audience. And I would look at your competition and see what your competitors

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are doing. What platforms are they active on? How often do they post? What time of the day they post?

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What time of the week do they post? Because digital, pretty much everything is out there.

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There's nothing that's really hidden. If you look in the right places, you can see what your

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competitors are doing and get ideas based off them. Like maybe they're posting 10 times a day,

387
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nobody's liking and engaging, then maybe Facebook isn't the best platform or maybe they're just

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doing Facebook wrong. But if you see, they're posting on Instagram all the time and they're

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getting a ton of engagement, all these likes, all these comments, and you're like, maybe I should

390
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be on Instagram. So it's all about just kind of getting ideas, basing them off your competitors

391
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and just trying to get a test. Don't just copy what they're doing, but copy it and then test

392
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and see, does this work? If it does great, if not, try something else and keep testing and

393
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testing until you find that sweet spot. But usually the analytics will tell you two in a lot of these

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platforms are not all in, but some of them will show you like time of day that your audience is

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active. So you could use that. But again, you gotta think just because they're active, does that mean

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they're looking for my product or service? You gotta think like, when do they actually have free

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time that like if they're a new parent, they're not gonna have much time maybe in the afternoon or

398
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when their kids asleep, they could have some time to search for products about children and babies.

399
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,600
But if you're like a venue for music and concerts and like, all right, weekends are probably where

400
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I'm going to be posting all the time to keep people active because now it's relaxation time.

401
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Let's give them content about how they can enjoy their free time.

402
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:27,920
Yeah. And again, some common themes keep popping up here of I like that there's kind of that

403
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creativity part there that, hey, if something's not working, then go try something else. But

404
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:41,520
there's also that analytic part. Let's look at the numbers. What is working here? What was an

405
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aspect of that post that worked great? What didn't work well? It's just kind of going back to the

406
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drawing board there. And as opposed to just this is the one way you have to do it. And I'm gonna

407
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follow this formula every single time. If it works, great. But if it's not working, then,

408
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:07,920
you know, try something new. Nothing too extreme about that. That's kind of just life in general.

409
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:14,240
And I think that's what I enjoy about this conversation is, well, these topics like, yeah,

410
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there's a lot of moving pieces. And I don't think anybody understands every single aspect of SEO.

411
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But that barrier to entry there isn't quite as high as some people might think. Oftentimes,

412
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:35,200
it's those fears that really keep us from going. So I think you've given us a lot of really good

413
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ways to get your feet wet, get started, and go create, go make new things, go make great

414
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content out there. But sometimes we're our worst enemy and just think, oh, I can't do it. I'm not

415
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:54,320
good enough. And then we just don't make anything. And that's that. We should go out and try to make

416
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,280
new great things. Yeah, definitely, definitely just play around and don't be scared. Don't get

417
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overwhelmed. I mean, it's a lot, but if you piece by piece it, it's not as overwhelming and over time,

418
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,240
you'll get that traction, but just don't get overwhelmed or get scared and just jump in there

419
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,480
and play around and test and test and test. And if you break something, it's fine. You can just go

420
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,320
back and fix it. And it's not the end of the world. It's not like you can't change it. You can't

421
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:24,080
be for those changes. Everything is pretty flexible with the digital. So don't get overwhelmed.

422
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:32,240
Great. Well, I'm imagining there are people listening to this episode that want to catch up

423
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:37,840
with you and follow you and maybe they're interested even in some of your services and getting

424
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,280
their own website up and going. So where can the audience find you?

425
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,920
So anyone that wants to learn more, actually create a special gift for them if they go to my

426
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:54,720
website at SEO optimizers.com. That's S E O O P T I M I Z E R S dot com forward slash gift.

427
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,280
And like find my contact information and a bunch of classes I've done over the years.

428
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,120
I've thrown up for free so they could see step by step how to do a lot of stuff that we talked about.

429
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,040
And also if they want to book some time on my calendar for a free website analysis,

430
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,920
I'm happy to check out their website from an SEO point of view and they could book some

431
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,520
time on my calendar there for free as well. Wonderful. Well, yeah, I wouldn't I would encourage

432
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,440
all of you if you have a website or you're thinking about about making a website for

433
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:25,120
for your business services or whatever, go check them out. And yeah, I really appreciate your

434
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,360
your conversation on this topic. That's not very well understood by a lot of people, but

435
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,360
I really appreciate your time today. Thanks for having me on today.

436
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,680
All right. Well, thank you for everyone that were listening to this great conversation today.

437
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:46,240
I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week. And let's just go continue fighting for truth. Thank you.