Welcome to InverteCast. I am Leah from Tarantula. And with me, I have an amazing special guest.
This is Ryan Marshall of Marshall Arachnids. Hello, Ryan.
Hi Leah. Pleasure. Pleasure. I was just saying it's nice to meet you. And thank you so much for having me on the show. It's fantastic.
Absolutely. I am so stoked to have you on the show for sure. You know, you've been in the hobby for, or you've been in business for some time.
And so you're actually pretty famous in the hobby. So that's pretty cool. And I'm just really stoked to have you on the show.
Yeah. Yeah. In one way or another, we've been, well, I have been a little vocal about all things husbandry and welfare when it comes to Tarantula specifically.
So it's gotten me in one way or another, a little bit of a platform to kind of yell from. So it's been an interesting ride for sure.
So any opportunity I have to talk to someone about these sorts of things, I jump on it. So thank you so much for taking the time.
Oh, that's so rad. I love that. Yeah. Well, well, okay, so let's just jump right in. How did Marshall Arachnids get started? So where did you guys start?
How did you get into the hobby the whole night?
Got it. Yeah. So let's see. It started for me. So I started, I guess my entrance into Tarantula. So I think a lot of people know this at this point.
I was a lifelong arachnophobe for the longest time up until a few years ago, really. And I still sort of have a healthy, I don't want to say fear, but they definitely intimidate me for sure.
I'm absolutely fascinated with them, but still a little on the fence about interacting with them. But that being said, somebody that I was dating at the time had a aphabopous myrnus.
And at for our whole relationship, I was like, not about this, you know, if that animal can stay where it's at, that's fine.
But one night, you know, it was just kind of like, come on, you need to get over this. This is unhealthy. And I don't handle my animals, but she put it in my hand. And I just, I was captivated.
It's terrified, but I couldn't help but be like, wow, there's a lot going on here. And I was amazed at how gentle it was.
So it just kind of sparked from there. And I started googling all these animals and I came across post letharia metallica. And I, right away was like, I asked is like, is that a real spider? Is that a real animal?
She said yes. And I said, can we get those? She said yes, they are in the hobby. However, they are, you know, a little bit difficult to breed. They're a little more expensive.
And I think that's why animals come in from Europe a lot. Rarely are they kept in the United States. And so to me, I was an aspiring zookeeper at the time. That was a challenge. So I just said, I'm going to get those.
And she was like, I think, you know, maybe you should slow down a little bit, you know, and kind of learn a little bit. And I didn't listen. I just dove right in.
It took a couple of years. But I just, I learned a few things here and there. Realized right away that kind of what everyone was saying about these animals as far as husbandry goes and natural history wasn't exactly what I was observing and seeing with my spiders.
And then they just started reproducing for me. And with that, you know, kind of snowballed, I suppose I sold those babies and then I got more of that same species and more of that same species up until and during all that time I got a zoo keeping job so I was working for various
A facilities. I worked for, I think, a total of three before I ended up coming back home, which was, which is in Michigan. But all that time I was just kind of working with them and then COVID hit and I had met Jessica in 2019, which is my partner and kind of got her involved.
And then we kind of paired off. And then I think we officially decided during COVID let's make Marshall arachnids a thing. Let's diversify species from there.
And we just both decided that we didn't want to work for anybody anymore because of the COVID thing kind of complicated so many things. Oh yeah, you know, and you know, it's no secret like I'm a very opinionated person and COVID just through everything.
You know, through the ringer and we just let's just do our own thing. And let's just roll the dice and see what happens like if you're all in, I'm all in.
So, here we are. Here we are today we just built our new facility down in Tennessee just for the spiders we have a little living space that is kind of up above us here which is kind of still in progress.
We're doing it. So here we are.
That is so cool I'd love to hear that because I also was a pretty staunch like arachnophobia as well so.
Okay, yeah.
Once that fascination hits though it hits hard.
You're right. Yeah, and you know what's funny is, and I'm sure you can you can comment on this too but if you have friends over people who are like afraid of the animals if they come over enough and they're around them enough and their enclosures they start to that interest sparks in them to they see them in a different
light you know because they're behind us. They see their behaviors you know I even got Jessica's mom who is an arachnophobe over here missing them and it's I see the gears starting to turn and she's talking to them now so yeah.
Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it's something about it if you're around them enough you're like well they're really misunderstood animals so it's cool to hear I think that's kind of a common thing around all of us in the hobby you know.
I think so too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure that way. Yeah.
Simon of the man's garden says that we are not alone I agree Simon. Well there's a lot of erect, you know, a rectifoes previous rectifoes who are definitely in the hobby so I agree with you on that right.
It's very cool it's cool that we have something tangible that can help us get because I don't know about everyone else but I took that and I kind of started applying that to other things in life, like other things that I'm unreasonably afraid of you know what I mean and it all comes down to education right the
more you know the more you understand unless you are afraid, you know.
Absolutely. I agree I definitely did apply that to a lot of other things in my life. I'm no longer like afraid to stand up for myself at times because sometimes I just, it's hard for me to be like no I don't want this or you know, it's hard to say no.
I know.
You're a good person you know and you want to be a good person it's difficult to say no sometimes you know you feel good at least I at least I do. Yeah, I do too I have so much guilt.
I'm with you there.
So maybe a rackniz or tarantulas like and one and one at one time how many would you say you have typically. It's funny that you asked that so I actively tell Jessica to not tell me that number because I don't want to know when I start looking at it that way.
I get overwhelmed.
Oh sure.
I would say we have a lot more spiders than most but not as much as some and I want to keep it small, you know, I would say at any given time there's at least 500 animals.
But in the spring, we like to go with the flow of nature so during the winter months we kind of pair animals and cool them down and then we hatch them in the spring.
So in the spring, we could produce over 1000 babies, just 1000 babies.
And that number goes up quite a bit at any given time really so I would say I'm comfortable with saying at least 500 at any given time.
Wow.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I don't want to be more than that.
She knows the exact number.
She's always like you want to know and I say no.
You're like no.
Leave it.
I don't want to be overwhelmed.
I get that.
I totally understand it.
Personally, I'm at about 76 I believe.
That's a good number.
And right now I'm kind of, yeah, right?
And I'm just kind of like okay, right now like I can handle that.
Good.
And I don't want to add too much more.
Yeah, it's crazy because that can happen pretty quickly.
You become overwhelmed with your collection and you know, you just jump in.
You get burned out.
Right.
Yeah.
And I definitely don't want to do that.
No, I think yeah, you've got enough to keep you busy.
76 animals.
That's enough to keep you a little busy during weeks.
That's good.
For sure.
You have to split them up too.
You split them up into the groups and you know, each day that's the group that you're
feeding and watering.
Is it like for me, that's the best way.
It is the best way.
Yeah.
Period.
Unless you have a lot of time on your hands, you know, to sit and do it and then not stop
until you're done.
Yeah.
And then you can just get back into sections.
Yeah.
That's the way to go through.
All right.
Thanks, Ryan.
I appreciate that.
Simon had a question for you.
He wanted to know because he has an escape to Rangel and he's wondering if you know a good way to catch them.
Because they don't know where it is.
So what's a good way to draw them out?
Hopefully get them back in their enclosure.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Interesting question.
We have some adult animals get out sometimes not because their enclosures are inadequate,
but because I don't like to lock things.
I do that on purpose.
In fact, let me look behind me.
Everything's locked today.
Every time I do one of these, someone always comments your enclosures are not locked.
And I'm like, I know, I know.
But sometimes the trespass species will get out.
So the first thing is a identify how it got out.
Number one, because then we can learn from that number two, what kind of species, what animal,
what kind of animal is it terrestrial or arboreal?
That's going to really make a difference.
Usually where you're going to find that animal up or down, that kind of speaks for itself, right?
Absolutely.
More so with the terrestrial species, even if this is a spiderling or an adult animal,
and no one talks about this, but of course I'm going to say it, we provide them a spot of heat.
So we take a heat lamp and we shine it either on a wall or on the ground.
We put it on 24 seven.
It's just a little thermal gradient, especially if you're in a northern climate where it's cool or if you're in a basement,
that animal is going to come out of it, go out of its way to get warm, right?
Yes, you left a little off.
Yep.
That's me.
I do that.
That'll do it.
Yeah.
Don't feel bad.
Yeah.
So that's usually what I like to do.
I start around the enclosure first, obviously, because sometimes they don't go too far.
But that being said, I have found them in other rooms before.
We don't have that problem.
No, we took care of that when we built this place.
But yes, giving them a little source of heat is usually how we go about doing that.
And then I look for them at night.
I actually use a little head lamp and I just go around.
I always find them at night because they tend to start wandering at night.
They feel safer that way.
They just come out.
And again, that's spiderling juvenile adult doesn't matter.
But that's what I would start doing.
So like I said, get a clamp lamp, put a little source of heat on it, either on the wall or facing toward the ground and let them come.
Usually just let them come to you.
But that's genius in my opinion because I had an escapee once.
Actually, a monocentropus palfori that got away from me.
Yeah.
My first old world.
And so for me, I was like, okay, I'm just going to put this one here.
I was trying to rehouse it and they were so fast, like startlingly fast for me at that time.
And so it just got away.
It was loose in my house for like a month.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I actually didn't find it.
My cat did.
So one of my cats was just staring at something for, you know, and I'm going, what is going on?
And so I look where she's looking and sure enough, there's, there's my, my tarantula.
And I'm like, oh, get the catch cut.
We got to get up.
Yeah.
That's a good point to rely.
If you have furry friends, usually furry friends are much better at finding things than you are.
So they'll come on your furry friends.
You're right.
That's a good point.
Yeah.
I didn't even think about that.
But yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
But I like the heat.
I like the heat source.
I think that's a really great idea because they will seek out that heat and then searching at night is.
Like, probably the best.
Yeah, it is.
And, you know, you can pick up.
Well, I guess not really.
I shine, but it's just, I don't know what it is.
Like if all the lights are off and you are focusing on one area with a bright light on your head, like, that's how we do husbandry.
Usually you just, you can see things better.
It draws your eyes to things and then you can, you can kind of see shadows, like in corners, like if something's going to hide somewhere, be like, oh, that would be a nice little spot to check.
But we made a joke.
We had one just get out recently as an S this piece again, because I left the enclosure unlocked.
I'm not afraid to admit I do that.
It's a trend.
Yeah.
It's a trend for sure.
And let me explain the reason I do that is because we keep X Otero enclosures.
As you can see behind me and that little latch when I click it open, it scares everything.
Everything gets scared of that.
You know what I mean?
So, yeah, especially since we let mom's.
Rear their babies in tank.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't like to do that unnecessarily.
So I just leave it open.
Usually I don't have problems, but sometimes it happens.
But we're going to do like that.
I don't, I don't advise you guys to do that.
But that anyway, people's people are going to worry that actually that's really cool that you let mom's rear young in the tank.
Because I know that a lot of breeders like will pool egg sacks and then kind of incubate them.
So do you feel that you get healthier spiderlings that way or?
Yeah.
In fact, I know, I know we do.
Yeah.
Those they, I don't know exactly what's going on and what that relationship is, but there is something with that happens there where our babies do come out larger every single time then pulled counterparts.
Yeah.
I don't know what it is.
It's just, there's something going on.
And, you know, we like to give the moms in tank those brooding temperatures so we can just be hands off and let mom do it.
It's a pain getting them out.
I will say that there's a trade off to this.
It takes time getting babies out of tank and leaving some with mom for a long time just because we miss them.
But again, the baby, it's just not an issue.
Like the babies do really well.
They come out exceptionally large.
So yeah, that's to me, that's the way to go.
If you're incredible.
That's really, really cool.
I think that's, I mean, it makes sense because that's how it's going to happen in the wild anyway.
But I think that's actually kind of revolutionary like in a kind of the breeding world and stuff because I know a lot of breeders will just will pull them out and, you know, it could be them wait for them to come.
So I, that's, I'm interested.
I think that's Brad.
Yeah.
And I wish I could explain to you what's going on there.
You just have to take my word for it.
I don't know how, you know what I mean?
I wish I, I wish I understood, but they do.
It's like the almost double the size.
I don't know if it's crazy, but I'm doing, I'm doing less.
I'm just letting, letting it happen.
You know, they're just healthier because of it.
So, you know, you're right.
It is revolutionary in a sense that it's not the norm, but really I'm just doing less and letting them do it.
You know, I love it.
I think it's really smart.
Simon says he will swap with you.
I think Mantis is right up to the wall.
So funny story.
That is funny.
So we, Jessica likes Mantis's too.
She has a lot of ghost mantids.
And I love them too.
They're amazing.
But they just produced on stop for her.
And sometimes, you know, at least this happened one time we learned real quick, but we set a ooth.
In a cabinet, I think we were like, okay, it's that hasn't hatched yet.
It's way beyond.
So we put it in the drawer and then we came back.
I think one, I want to say three days later and it looked like ants all over our ceiling in our house because they had hatch and they all dispersed all over the ceiling.
Yeah.
So, and they're so tiny.
I get, I get how you could mistake them for ants.
That's funny.
Well, they move.
Yeah, they move like ants during like that for that nymph stage they have their movement is different.
So I'm like, oh my God, there's an ant outbreak.
And then we get closer.
We're starting, we start catching them.
Thank God we didn't start squishing them.
You know, maybe mantis.
Oh no.
How cool is that though?
Yeah, I know that he likes to let a few of his, a few of his species to like kind of free roam in his bug room.
So that's, that's really cool.
I can't do that because I have cats and I just, I don't think they would do very free roaming in my house.
No, they wouldn't last very long probably not.
But if you can do it, you're right.
Yeah, that's cool.
I've seen videos.
I don't know who it is, but someone in their bug room has like those big war believers that just kind of set up shop, but hanging from the ceiling.
I'm like, man, that's so cool.
That would creep me out, but super cool.
That is really cool.
Absolutely.
So, okay.
You did mention a little bit about husbandry.
So that's a really great segue into the next question.
So do you prefer to keep your tarantulas in bioactive enclosures or naturalistic?
Because I do naturalistic mostly.
So, yeah, yeah, I think do absolutely do whatever works for you.
I don't necessarily, I can't quantify and whether or not one is better for the other, but we have done bioactive for so long.
And for us, we find it to be absolutely like minimally involved.
You know, we just kind of, if you can see behind me with the plants and everything, we just, yeah, we're hands off with all of it.
And I just, we fertilize every so often with a natural fertilizer.
So we do bioactive.
It's nothing for us to just walk by a tank and supplement with springtails or dwarf white isopods and just let it, let it go.
Yeah, I haven't really had an issue.
We don't, we avoid the larger postellio isopods species.
And that's usually what we recommend to customers just because we've never had a problem, but we do know that they have a dietary like protein requirement.
So we don't use those.
But other than that, we just, we find it so simple for us and our environments just do bioactive and let it go, let, let, let everything happen.
Awesome.
Very cool.
Do you have like, does your humidity in your critter room, does it stay at like a certain level or do you find that it's.
Yeah, great question.
I'm glad you said that because we were really trying to hit home with our customers that like not everyone's environment is the same, which is
right, inevitably going to affect your approach to your husbandry for your specific species.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And that's why, you know, care, care guides are great, but I would say I've never done it the care guide work not one time.
Yeah, I mean, either.
I just go there like a basic kind of, you know, there, I feel like they're just the bare minimum care guide, you know what I mean?
These are just like guidelines, essentially.
Exactly.
Yes.
It's not the book.
It's just a woman might help you in a sense compare with what you're finding about the animals, natural history, be like, oh, that's how they're applying that, you know, but then again, in addition to natural history, like we just said, your
environment's going to be different than who wrote that care guide.
So, you know, just keep that in mind.
But to answer your question, no, it varies quite a bit.
We do hand mist.
We'll probably automate that here soon, but I've always been a fan of hand missing our enclosures every day, if not every other day.
You can kind of see behind me, I've got a big mini split back there up above.
Oh, yeah.
That's so that's controlling the climate in the room.
And this time of year, when it's cooler outside, it's going to run a lot.
It's going to put out a lot of heat.
It's going to dry the air out.
Right.
So now we have to compensate for that.
Which I honestly think our tanks do better this time of year because things, we soak them and then they dry out real quick.
And the plants seem to really like that.
I think the spiders do too.
But we don't actively monitor a percentage of humidity.
I have, I keep track of it, but I'm not like we have to attain this temperature, you know, or this percentage.
We don't do that.
Yeah, we couldn't.
Yeah, I'd, yeah.
For me, that would just be way too involved.
Like, I mean, it's a great, you know, it's a, it's a great,
you know, it's a, it's a great idea in theory, but it's just not realistic to, to really, you know, try that.
Especially if you have a lot of animals like we do, like that's, it's just not going to happen.
And what I try to tell people is like, that's, it's okay to know, right.
And I say it all the time, it's okay to know what the humidity is, but don't stress trying to achieve a number.
You know what I mean?
Having your animal have access to those basic necessities, those resources, water, heat, light, that's what matters.
That's enough humidity.
Yeah.
As it changes, we'll tell you how you change your husbandry, maybe, but yeah.
So hopefully that answers your question.
No, I totally relate to that.
I mean, I live in Colorado.
So I, you know, we're always a mile high above sea level anyway.
So the altitude.
Very different.
Yeah.
The altitude definitely makes the air a lot thinner.
And so when, when it does get cold here, like any moisture in the air is just that because the heater, you know, so I have to do my weekly, you know, rounds and stuff and make sure everybody has enough moisture.
Because if I don't, I mean, I could have it dehydrated tarantula pretty quick.
Yeah.
Especially that those Zinnesia species or the pamphlet beetles and they are very moisture dependent.
So they're not as hardy as some of the others, you know, right, right.
Yeah.
And that's, I'm glad you said that.
Yeah.
We have a tendency, at least in the United States to be like a tarantula is a tarantula is a tarantula, you know, and I want to differentiate by the species very different, even within the same genus species are very different.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I'm glad you said that.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
My Zinnesia's Intermedia, she will let me know very, very quickly if she does not have enough moisture in her enclosure.
Like, yeah, they're, I'm like, I'm always on her like, oh, are you good?
Yes.
Yeah.
And it's amazing.
Yeah.
And that speaks to something else too.
It's like behaviorally, like they talk to you.
They do.
And yeah, it's very important to watch them.
I think I advocate for that a lot.
Like to spend a minute watching them through different parts of the day, you learn a lot.
You know, absolutely.
That's actually been kind of a hot button topic, like the past couple of weeks in the community, whether or not tarantulas have kind of that intelligence and or if they have like emotional behaviors and that kind of thing.
And I'm over here like, yeah.
I know for some, a lot of us, it's like, of course, of course they do.
You know, of course, there's a lot more going on there.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I definitely think so.
I know they know what day they get fed.
They know, you know, like when they need that moisture, like I said, my Zinnesias will let me know, you know, she'll, she'll be right on the wall of her enclosure, like, hello, or in the, you know, water dish or something.
So you can definitely tell.
And Simon actually asked a great question about this.
He asked, how much do spiders usually drink?
And he says that his seem to drink a bottle cap full every day.
I would say that if that is happening, because sometimes they will just get into their water dish or their bottle cap, you know, they'll just get in there and like spray their water everywhere and fill it with dirt, you know.
And that's not necessarily an indication of their thirst or, you know, need for that moisture.
But if that is happening, like if they are actually drinking, then I would say that, you know, that's not totally normal.
But that's definitely a thirsty, you know, go ahead.
Yeah, I think, yeah.
So that kind of feeds into what we were just talking about, about environment, right.
And of course species, but historically speaking, we've accepted in the hobby that I've heard this term way too often and it drives me insane, but they're sealed, they're hermitically sealed.
In fact, it's the opposite, like, through the, the fusion and whatnot, like the animals lose quite a bit of water.
In fact, this is not my work, but Becky O'Neill, who's a PhD candidate, I'm going to speak with her tomorrow, but she posted a study where a lot of these animals that have large abdomens depending on the type of year they might even be starting, but they have their retaining some with water, right.
So it's like, it's not that abdomen you're seeing is not like from eating is from drinking.
So yes, they absolutely can. I know our animals, especially this time of year, we do provide them with a little water dish, but we missed more frequently.
I think the animals queue in on missed more than anything else, even if they have a water dish, it's kind of trigger to drink.
Yeah.
So that just comes down to environment. I could say some of our avics drink every single day from the droplets that we drink that we sure buy for them.
And then in the summer, they retain water much better because the humidity is higher.
So yeah, I wouldn't say it's completely normal, but it's not abnormal either. You know, there's factors to consider to like, what kind of school of species is it as a wild caught.
Is it possible that it has parasite, you know, I, right, it's dry and it's thirsty, you know, but yeah, yeah.
Tarantula being tarantulas.
Exactly. Yeah.
For sure.
They drink a lot of water. So, and they just always add, I've raised most of our animals in our adult collection of race and spiderlings, you know, and I just, this time of year, that's just what they do.
They just drink a lot.
Yeah, I mean, the temperatures get cold and, you know, heaters come out. So there's definitely going to be that need for more moisture and stuff.
And I'm just gonna be honest saying that her Trinidad dwarf drinks a lot. So the whole of failing long appease. I definitely think that that one is a very moisture dependent species.
They come from Trinidad, which is like right, right there in the Caribbean. So I would expect that's pretty normal for them.
Definitely. Yeah, we keep their soil pretty, pretty damn. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that.
Brian, do you have a favorite species of tarantula? Just in general?
Tarantula, yeah. I do the Metallica, the postleth area, the whole genus really is what started this for me. So I can't, I can't not show love for them.
They're that genus. I have, we have a lot of spiders.
That species, that genus rather, they stop me in my tracks every time because they come out during the evening, you know, being perpustular and whatnot. Every time I walk by their tanks, if I see them, I'm like, wow.
They are stunning. I agree. Amazing. Yeah, such a treat to see them out too.
Yeah, yeah, they're big and they're bold, they're beautiful. I just said, yeah. So Metallica for sure, but that whole genus is perfect.
I feel like they get kind of a bad rep. Do you agree? 100%. Oh yeah. Yeah, right.
The easiest species to work with. Their genus rather. Yeah. Yeah. They're so cool. Like, they're amazing. Yeah, they're just little darlings. I just saw a fellow, you know, content creator talking about their pokies and how the pokie was super patient, like waiting for her to rehouse it.
And I was like, yeah, they're darlings, you know, like I was actually really kind of nervous about having postal letharia in my collection from the start, you know, and the first one that I got was a postal letharia Metallica.
It was totally an accident. I bought it. Yeah, I bought it with the kill of Brocky's Fimbriatus. Oh my goodness. Yeah, right. I was like, safe area. Different species.
Yeah. Yeah. That's silly. Yeah, it was so funny. But yeah, I mean, what's your favorite? Are they your favorite? What's your favorite?
I'm actually, I'm such a geek for a fauna pelmas like the a fauna pelma calcones and hensies and stuff. They made me totally change my mind on the color brown. Like, I always thought. I would agree with you.
Right. Like I always thought, okay, brown is just brown, whatever brown. Yeah. A fauna pelmas, man, they're, you know, they're going to show you that there's some red brown. There's some like tans. There are some just beautiful gold colors.
Like they are.
That's funny. It's so funny. You say that. I agree with you there. Yeah, I like the tan, the tan colors, the sandy tans and all that. They're beautiful, beautiful spiders.
Absolutely. Yeah. They're so cool. Their nature is just nice. The docile, you know what I mean? They make it look like. Yeah. Never eat.
There's that too. Yeah. Which, first of all, can be a source of frustration. But yeah. A little bit. Yeah.
That's where understanding where they come from and what happens to them and what they do in nature. That's where it's very important. You understand why they do what they do certain times a year, right? Absolutely. That's a healthy spider, you know?
Right. Right. If you're not seeing it through the winter, you're good. Exactly. That's where it wants to be. Yeah.
Kind of segueing into that. How do you feel about conservation as far as like specific species or just tarantulas in general? Because a lot of the tarantulas that we keep, they are on that protected species list.
So how do you feel about that? Like.
Yes. So that is a double F sword. And also, I have a bit of a different opinion on it because of my background. I've seen the other side. I've worked with people who are on the other side who are on cities.
And I've done some international work with conservation with amphibians. So I kind of understand the optics of our as far as like what the pet trade looks like to other countries and to on cities.
We're not good. And I say that lightly. You have to understand how I'm meaning that. I'm not the best with words, but we're not viewed in the eyes of anything to do with conservation as a positive.
Okay. And that's just the way it is. Now, double edge sword of that. A lot of where these animals are coming from. Let's just take Sri Lanka, for example.
Sure.
The pet trade is going to be the place to see these animals in the next few years because of your station and logging. And so it's like, while the hobby itself doesn't directly contribute to conservation.
That's going to be the source of them. You know, and then from the hobby, they will make their way into easy institutions, which then maybe genetic testing might be done and which place actual proper conservation efforts might take place.
That might happen, right? But I, yeah, so I kind of bow like if I ever do any kind of breeding, I want to donate like a portion of the sack to my local to logical society. So like the Denver zoo or super lucky here in Denver, we have the butterfly pavilion and they do
breed tarantulas. They do a ton for like conservation. So I would probably donate some specimen to them.
Yeah, I think that's what the hobby can do is reaching out to these people, especially like if you go to your AZA institution, they know who's in charge of the SSP or who the SSP species survival plan coordinator is for individual species.
I know there's quite a few for invertebrates asking how and you can contribute. I think is the best way to go about that.
Awesome.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's, that's where I'll leave that. But understanding, you know, I'm not dumb. I understand that a lot of animals are here. All of them originated from wild caught animals.
Oh, yeah.
And I absolutely love my hobby. I love my I love my spiders to death, but we I think it would do the hobby good for up for everyone to understand how we are viewed.
And that might change some behaviors and some ethics and some morals on how we go about obtaining and selling healthy animals like optics or everything, especially now in this sort of climate.
Yeah.
No, I really appreciate that Ryan I think that's incredibly smart because I think a lot of time here in in the US we kind of forget how, you know, we're viewed through the world and so
yeah, just a little too much. I agree. And so yeah, I do think that capitalism can be very dangerous for the hobby. I think it can be dangerous to conservation, especially, you know, I want the spider I want it now.
Like that mindset is just not healthy for for what we're trying to do, you know,
Exactly. Yeah. And I know I know people like to be like, well, it came into the hobby legally. It was a legal importation. Yes. However, the laws are different in Europe. So if you might, or wherever they're going and taking these animals, the laws are different
or they doesn't apply. Right.
So we need to be importing them legally, but they left their country of origin illegally, right? You didn't do it if the United States didn't do it. So I think that's another thing too that we all need to be conscious of like we need to support sustainable legal.
I don't have the answer for that necessarily. I think what Mexico was doing provided that was actually ethically and morally happening is great, right? Where like animals are taken from the wild and some are put back, some are sold to the pet trade, right?
And then whatever that country of origin does with that money, whatever, right? But that's a sustainable approach to both things, right? Just getting that happen successfully isn't I'm not in control of that.
So I don't have an answer for that. But that would be a good step in the right direction, I think.
Awesome. Thank you, Ryan. I appreciate that.
So Baz has a really good question about breeding. So Baz wants to know, why do you think balfour is lay their sacks and hammocks instead of carrying the sack around?
Because they have no idea.
Yeah, good question. So I have seen it. I've noticed a trend.
Animals that live in clay or sandy substrate or soils tend to do this. So like harpectera, polkarpies, I'm pulling this. This is my observation. Okay, so just take that for what it's worth.
But polkarpies, I've seen GBBs do it, chromatopelma do it, monosentropis, like you said, balfour, I do it.
And also another trend with these is that there's really intense UV and sun exposure where these animals are, where they live. I think it all comes down to natural history.
So I think the sandy soil has something to do with it. Also, there's high UV exposure and where these animals are, they have easy access to like constant brooding temperatures.
So like high temperatures, right? So it might be beneficial to lay them in a hammock suspended in somewhere where it's getting those appropriate brooding temps all the time.
It's less work for the mom. That makes sense to me. But there's like a trend I'm noticing with animals that do that.
And there might be something that does it, that does it, that does not apply. It's just not, I haven't worked with that species yet. But that's a possibility. There's a couple things going on there.
Awesome. I like that. I appreciate that. Carrie wants to, go ahead.
No, no, go ahead. We'll move on. I think Diane is there to question. I can ramble. You have to stop me.
Oh, you're so good, Ryan. We love it. We love it. You can ramble all you want here.
Okay. Thank you.
No worries. So Carrie says, how do you go, like, how do you best express like conservation efforts and issues to a community at the exotic shows?
Like when you're at expose or something and you're just concerned that maybe they have like a wild caught specimen.
How do you go about saying, hey, this isn't really great for the hobby. This isn't really great for the species.
What would your suggestion be?
This is a fantastic question. So Jessica and I have been doing a lot more expose lately this year and next year. We plan to keep doing that. We're actually working with Tristan of Gecko junkie to establish a new base of shows under the name run at reptile expo.
And this is something that we talk about because we know it's a problem and especially with me on board, my background.
I'm the first to say this is messed up guys. You know what I mean? And so like in our little huddle we discuss these things like it starts with the show promoters.
It starts with who's running the show and who's screening, right?
And we discussed potentially, I think I can say this, but like a panel of a group of people, whoever that may be that regulates and filters these things.
Because like I said, some people just may not know I know good people, well intentioned people who don't know the origin of the species and its entrance into the country.
Sure. Yeah.
And it's not their fault necessarily. There are a lot of people who are at fault. I know a bunch.
Yeah, that that comes down to shutting that down at the door. That's at the gate.
Documentation is easy to, easy to produce.
Paper trails easy to produce for those of you who are serious. And if you're not serious, well, we were not going to give you a platform. Right.
It's difficult because like I said, you can't just strip people's livelihoods away.
But educating them and giving them the chance to fix it and be better about their practices is the way to go about it.
Right. If you just say, no, then you give them an axe right away. You're not going to make friends and they're just going to do it anyway.
But I think we all need to have, we all just need to promote this better at shows at the door, I think.
And that starts with the promoters. Yeah. And screening and filtering what comes through the door for sure.
I always appreciate when I do go to shows and expos, I always appreciate a table who's like, I support US ARC.
And so they'll have, you know, like the US ARC logo and all that stuff. I always appreciate that because to me that says you are being conservation minded.
And you know, you're worried, you're thinking about that.
The bigger picture. Yes. Yeah, exactly. The bigger picture. And so, yes, I think that's also another really key element that some breeders just they don't know or maybe they just don't want to or whatever.
But for me, I'm like, yeah, if you got US ARC, I am all over it.
Yeah. So you're touching on optics, right? Yeah. And it needs to be, there needs to be an incentive for people to do better.
Right. So I think like having this little green checkmark or a blue checkmark, you know what I mean? Something like that that says we're doing the right thing.
We care about your hobby. I care about my hobby. I care about the animals you are going to possess if you buy them from me.
It needs to be cool. It needs to be sexy to do that. Because I mean, conservation needs to be sexy.
Right. Otherwise, there's no one's in touch. Yeah. Otherwise, you cares. Right.
I'm with you on this. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah.
Do you ever get to work with Tom Patterson or Kelly Fornaz or any of these guys? Like, do you get to work with them? Like, do you get to trade with them? You know, hey, I've got this mail.
Yes.
I need to name drop. But you know, yeah, I know I got to be careful, but I get in trouble doing these name drop things.
All of them. All of those times is a bunch of them now. But most of them had very pleasure. Good, good experiences with them. It's been a pleasure dealing with them.
Yeah. Kelly, I think we've gotten animals from Kelly before I can't remember, but at least the times I know for sure.
There's a bunch of them now. But yes, sometimes we will supplement our collection or inventory with animals that have like Tom Saxon produces quite a bit of animals.
We've supplemented from him before and then we do some trading odds and ends of males. We're at the point now in our collection where males are much more valuable to us than females because we just have females.
Right. They're sitting around knowing these, these Tom's really.
It does. I agree. Yeah.
Well, cool.
It's easy to work with. Yeah.
Is Tom Patterson really like as cranky?
No, you know, it's funny. I know people will dog on his attitude, but I'm like, I'm right there with him. He's just straight forward. Yeah. And I like the way he feels about the hobby and how his bluntness.
I'm like, yep, that's it. That's what's going to happen. It's okay to be to sit. They kind of have a bleak attitude about like longevity about the hobby. Right.
Yes. Optics or everything. And I think he gets that he's been doing this a long time. So yeah, he kind of see when you're doing this something a long time, you see the shifts and the patterns were exactly. Yeah, like the ripples and you know, make sense.
Exactly. Okay. Yeah.
No, I love it. I really appreciate that. I know I feel like a lot of people are kind of like, oh, so many, you know, a lot of Tom's in the US hobby here. And they do kind of get treated like celebrities, which is probably cool for them. No.
But I think Tom Patterson is cool. Like I think I love his rock and roll attitude. I think he's just all around great guy.
And I love what he does for the hobby. So same thing. I'm I'm envious. I like the way he does his thing. He doesn't, you know, he's mindful of what he says, but also is not afraid to shoot from the hip and I like that. I like that style quite a bit.
So yeah, yep, yep.
Yeah, yeah.
So if okay, so this one is another kind of off topic, but it's a cool question I thought maybe would be a lot of fun. If you could travel anywhere in the world to like observe tarantulas in the wild, where would you go and why.
Hmm, interesting. I want to ask you the same question.
Okay.
So for me, Ecuador, that's so funny. I don't have a retirement plan. Period.
Okay. When I'm when I'm ready to be done. I'm going to Ecuador. Ever since I was old enough to remember. I know the Amazon is a place like Ecuador, Peru, Costa Rica, but anything South America.
Costa Rica is Central America people.
But yes, so Ecuador, Peru, those places, that's where I'm going to go. And I know once I go, I'm not coming back.
But the, I really like my aviculary species, I would love to say India and go see me tell her, however, I know the logistics of that and how dangerous that is.
Yeah.
And I know that's not on the table for me being realistic. But when I'm ready to go, I, Ecuador, Peru is where I'm going. And I have no plans on coming back when I'm finally ready to go. So, yep, that's my plan.
That's why I would like to go and see all the aviculary species. And there's so I get pictures from zoo folks who still go down and do amphibian research down there and they send me pictures of tarantulas that are I know are not in the hobby.
I know are not described yet. They're like, Oh, look at this little thing. And they're, wow.
And I don't, I don't share the pictures because I'm like, I'm not letting that get out.
Right.
There's only cool animals that we've just, the hobbies never seen before and they're all down in the rainforest. And I would like to go check them out. That's where I'd like to go. How about you?
Absolutely. I mean, probably in the same region, but Columbia, for me, it's about Columbia. I would absolutely love to just, you know, for a lot of reasons. So obviously, like the tarantulas that are in Columbia.
I mean, we have, I swear a third of my collection is from Columbia.
You know, like, yeah.
And at border, it's pretty close to Brazil too that there's, there's some fun times there, but the culture in Columbia is wonderful. They're very like fun, lively, colorful people.
They, you know, they love dance, they love music and they love people from all over the place. I know that, you know, that, that region of the world sometimes has issues just in general with like simple, you know, simple issues and civil war stuff like that.
You know, governmental issues and stuff. But when it comes down to it, like the actual people who are living there are amazing. And so I would just absolutely love to, to,
to visit. And then, and then of course, see the monocentropus or megapropan or robustums, those are the guys.
Oh, yeah, they would, they would be fun to view in the wild.
Those are a montane too, right? They're a montane species?
Yeah, I believe so.
Okay. Because I feel like I've seen pictures of them on moss beds, really wet moss beds. And I don't think those are captive photos. I think maybe I'm wrong.
I'm not, you know, I'm gonna have to look that up because I don't know.
Yeah, if it is true, like what the pictures I'm seeing, I'm like, that's the, yeah, and I know there are some montane regions in Colombia. So definitely going to one of those places that has those biomes like cloud forests and also lowland rainforest, if you're going to go anywhere, I would say, go somewhere that has both because it's you're essentially seeing two different worlds in one place.
Right.
Oh, that's just too cool. It's too cool.
And Colombia also, those little dendro baddies, the poison frogs.
Oh, yeah.
I can't believe I just blanked on that. My zoo people are going to laugh at me.
Phyla baby's Terribilis, the golden poison frog, those are in all in Colombia too. So that would be a cool one to see.
Yeah, I mean, Colombia is just full of a lot of really cool wildlife, like spiders and everything.
Yeah, right. I'm so jealous.
I never really said they're just like, yeah, they're just there, who cares, you know, but like that's the coolest thing ever.
I wonder if people in Australia think that too, like, because you know, in Australia, there's all the amazing wildlife there too, that they're just so iconic, like koalas, gators.
Yeah, exactly. So I wonder, you know, I'm sure people in Australia are like, oh yeah, it's just a boom of Python and we're over here like, awesome.
Yeah.
Well, you see, Jessica is, she's in all these Facebook groups from Australia where it's like Snake ID. And it's funny how there, it's like, there's, is that in my place? Did you hear that? Was that for me?
I don't, I don't, yeah, I heard it.
I think the dog must have fell upstairs or something.
What was I saying? Oh, yeah, so they, the snakes are just like a part of their life, right? Like, oh, there's pythons on my Portuguese or oh, he lives there, you know, it's like they're just part of their culture, which I think is really neat here.
We're like, ah, kill it, you know, or oh, get it away.
I hate that.
I'm like, oh, the exterminator. Yeah, but they're like, oh, there he goes. Like you'll see an Eastern or a brown snake or some venomous something venomous everything venomous down there.
Just right through someone's, you know, property and it's fine. It's just part of life. Yeah.
That's cool though. I mean, because yeah, the States is so weird when it comes to snakes and spiders, I think, because we're just raised to be hateful toward them and the media doesn't really help much.
As far as that goes, because of course they always depict.
Yeah, like the spiders always like the bad guys or whatever.
With those jumping spiders, right? You've seen the jumping spiders are coming. They're hot because of media, you know, so at least there's that. Yeah. Yeah.
There are, there is some credit to be given is like eight legged or eight legged freaks that movie. The spiders were kind of scary, but they used actual species for their. Yeah.
Right, which for me, I was like, okay, I can, I'll give you a credit there because that's cool.
You thought about it. Right. You thought about this. Yeah, a little bit. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.
Yeah. Yes. And then, yeah, so okay a fauna pylma. Do you love them or hate them? You love them. We already talked about.
Yeah. Yeah, I would say I wouldn't call them necessarily a favorite of mine, but there's something to be said about the species or the genus in general for a lot of people. And I think if you're going to do this and you're going to be in this industry this hobby, I think it's a staple.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I like them. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel about them. I think they're pretty cool. Yeah. Awesome. And they're a great way to teach people about, you know, like backyard conservation, backyard species.
I know they're a good source of study for folks too, which there's something to be said for that too. You know, we have access to them and we can watch them. Right. So.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's pretty fascinating too because they are still discovering new a fauna, a fauna pylma species.
Yeah. In our backyard, you know. Yeah.
Wild. Absolutely. Like the, what was it, the fauna pylma species diamond back. Still hasn't been described, but it's right here. Yeah.
I know there's just, and that speaks to something too. Like, I kind of, I kind of get preachy about this, but I just, there's so much complexity to all of this that we just don't, we don't, we don't, we haven't even scratched the surface. You know what I mean? So like when people start talking about the animals having, you know,
a little more depth cognitively, you know what I mean? And like little more evolved. They're not just so primitive. Like we put them out to be. Yes, some of the characteristics are, but there's just so much more to learn and study. And like we're just now starting to understand that there's more.
Right. Now, now we have to figure out that more and species like a fauna pylma that we can actually grab and discover in our backyards and watch and observe. You know, it's very important, very important for conservation.
And it puts them on a map. So, absolutely. I know I really appreciate that your conservation minded. I think all the best breeders are. And I mean, for me, that speaks volumes, because I do think that a lot of people in the hobby are leaning that way.
More so than anything, you know, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, it is. I agree. I agree with you 100%. I still think we have a lot of catching up to do. I think they're going to have these low behind. But then again, you could say that about our industry as a whole, because it's not regulated, right? It's like, right?
It's like, passionate people to like be loud and talk about it. Otherwise, there's no like board or registry or something like that. That's like regulating these things. So, yeah, right. We're getting there. You're right. There's been a shift.
There has been. Yeah. And I love that. I think, you know, I think it's in a good direction. And yeah. Okay, so we're actually getting to the end of the podcast. And so this is kind of the portion that we like to call our shameless plug.
So this is where you can you can throw anything you want to promote, obviously, Marshall arachnid stuff. So have that.
Have that. Sure. Sure. Well, and thank you. Thank you for giving us the time. Just and I obviously Marshall arachnids.com. We're on all the socials. I think everything is just Marshall arachnids in one way or another. It's not my forte.
Jessica and I are actually taking up a rake right now. We're kind of. So fun fact, we, as of two weeks ago, just finally got a shower. So we've been here like seven months now. And now we got a shower and stuff. So, yeah, we're not far away.
We shop. We really clean ourselves, but we're taking a break to kind of catch up now. We're kind of slowing down our live animal shipping is suspended until February, just for the sake of the madness.
Yeah, the weather. I know what I mean. And we, yeah, exactly. So we're taking a little pause, a little break. We still have a few items up. You can still purchase things on our website, Marshall arachnids.com.
Cool. I think that's that's that. Yeah, just be patient with us. I'm, we're doing all of the renovation and all the construction ourselves at this point. So like, we're just really focused on that. So if we don't get back to you when you reach out to us, just give us a minute.
Just doing husbandry. I'm hammering away or trying to figure out how to install something. I don't know.
Yeah, be patient with us. But yeah, Leah, thank you so much for taking a, taking the time to talk to me and getting us out there on your platform. That's super awesome. We're really grateful for that. So thank you.
Oh, no, I'm so grateful to you for for coming on and really, you know, help it. I help you. You help me. We help each other.
Yeah, let's talk again. Yeah, let's do it. Absolutely. I would love to, I would love to continue talking to you about other topics in depth and maybe we can talk about different species. You know, I'm all, I'm all, anytime we can take these conversations and put them out there. I'm all about it.
So absolutely. I go ahead.
You holler whenever, whenever you want to talk.
Yeah, same. Absolutely. If there's something that's burning in your brain, you know, and you, you want to come.
Well, I love that, right. And I think that's really cool. And like I said, yeah, thanks so much. So for everybody out there, I'll go ahead and shamelessly plug my podcast in Verticast.
If you like what you saw, like and subscribe, share it with your friends, send it to people who you know would appreciate it. Thank you again so much, Ryan, for being here. We really appreciate it.
Thank you. Glad that, glad that we were able to provide kind of a platform for, yeah, for you to, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. Yes. This is, I love this. So thank you guys. And hopefully we'll talk again soon. Okay.
Definitely. Thank you, Ryan. Have a great one.
Thank you. Thank you. You as well. We'll talk soon.