All right.
Hello and welcome to Invertecast.
I am Leah from Torrance, Leah.
And of course, we have Simon from the Mantis Garden.
And today we have a special guest.
We have Britton Kitten from the Creature Courage Experience.
Hello, Britton.
Hi.
So glad to be here.
Absolutely.
So wonderful to have you.
I'm very happy to share my knowledge
and spread the spider love.
Yeah.
I love it.
Absolutely love it.
All right.
So I will go ahead and start with what is Creature Courage
or what do you guys do?
OK.
So Creature Courage is a day-long boot camp
to get people over their fears of animals,
utilizing several different proven methods,
phobia-providing techniques based in CBT, NLP,
hypnotherapy, imagination exercises,
art therapy, building fascination and compassion.
And we just put all these different things together
because different things will resonate with different people.
And then after we teach people all these different tools
and techniques that not only address the animal phobia,
but also general anxiety.
Because if you think about it, you
can't hyper-focus on one area of your anxiety and say,
oh, I'm going to develop a really good habit around that
trigger, but then everything else,
I'm still going to have a bad habit,
and then expect your phobia to stay away.
So that's why we give people the knowledge of not only how
to address the spider phobia or the animal phobia.
Most spiders are the main things that we treat,
but I treat all animal phobias.
But it helps people overcome lots of different anxieties
in their life.
So the value of the course goes far beyond just
the animal phobia.
And so after we do all these techniques,
we then do several hours of immersive therapy,
gentle exposure.
Because this is the only way to actually get someone to change.
They have to actually do the thing they didn't think they
could do.
And yeah, basically, we're getting people over their fears
in just one day.
That's incredible.
It's just awesome.
I love it.
So Simon, did you want to chime in with another question?
I don't have a question, but I'd like to say a Q&A.
I mean, I can't go through spiders,
but I found that tarantulas is a specific thing with me.
I don't get it.
I always sound white.
I also get a shark, but I'm not going in the sea,
so it doesn't matter.
But tarantulas terrify me.
Whereas true spiders seem no more dangerous.
Don't.
So a health spider doesn't bother you?
No.
Double spiders don't bother me.
It's just tarantulas.
It's just a very tarantulas.
I can't stand them.
Very unique case for me, because almost every,
it's complete opposite with everyone,
because most animal phobias are based in the unpredictability
of the animal.
So animal phobias really aren't usually
a fear of the animal, per se.
But actually, the true root of the phobia
is being out of control.
And animals are a very good metaphor
of being out of control, aren't they?
Because their animals are unpredictable.
So yes, it'd be interesting to work with you.
And probably really easy, because tarantulas
are just like big derpy, like, I don't know,
puppy spiders.
I love puppy spiders.
You've got to meet peaches and Beyonce, Ninja, they're lovely.
They're just sitting there like rocks, you know?
Absolutely.
That's amazing.
I love you, big derpy doggy spider.
Yeah, labradoral spiders.
Love it.
So you did mention that you use a lot of different methods.
So what methods do you use?
And which method is your favorite?
And then which method is your client's favorite?
So the client, it's a real mixed bag.
Because like I said, different techniques
will resonate with different people.
So one of my favorite techniques I do
is an imagination exercise, where I wrote this story where,
so one closes their eyes and they become a spider.
And they're taken through a life being trapped
in the spider's body and living a day trapped
in a human's house.
And all the scary things someone might go through,
or a spider would go through, and nearly dying,
and being chased by pets, and being almost squashed,
and really getting people to see it
from a different point of view.
And I've had a lot of clients cry after doing this exercise.
And I was really surprised.
I was like, oh, it's just a story.
But some people get so invested in the story.
And they're really like, they break down,
because I've never saw it this way.
I never, I was so focused on me being afraid.
I didn't realize what they were going through.
And it's building that compassion.
That's my favorite thing, is seeing people
churn from seeing it as something scary and horrible
to actually feeling compassion and empathy,
and all these wonderful emotions for something
they used to hate.
I mean, most of my clients are getting them to call spiders
cute by the end of it, before they're like, oh, disgusting.
And then they're like, oh, look, he's being quite cute.
I'm like, ah, you just said it.
You just called it cute.
I love that.
Yes.
But as I said, we're utilizing a lot of different techniques,
because people, I kind of imagine a tool belt.
So you're drawing on different techniques
that people can utilize when it comes to that immersive part
of the therapy.
It's all based in neuroscience.
Why I have this high success rate?
Because it's based on the science of the brain.
This is how the brain works, and how it operates around fear.
If you have that understanding, and you understand
how that part of the brain works, the amygdala, which
I call the caveman brain, because it's much easier to say.
And it's a much more nice metaphor for what
it is, our primitive part survival techniques.
So yeah, I just utilize all these different techniques.
And different people will just draw to different ones.
But that's what seems to, I don't know,
just cracked this formula of curing animal phobias.
And it just seems to work.
Most therapists will work in them, like, oh, come see me
for this session.
And the next week, seek me for another session, and so on.
But I don't find that really effective.
I think just doing this one day boot camp,
and it really gets people over the most of their fear,
and in the sense that they're actually handling the animal
they're afraid of by the end of it.
Most people think, oh, I didn't think
you could do it one session.
But that caveman brain will change very quickly
once you take action.
Because the more you avoid, the more you're
reinforcing to that caveman brain, it is a real threat.
So that caveman brain always wants to be safe and sorry,
right?
It doesn't really care if that's a little threat or a big threat,
or if it's just a non-threat looking like a threat.
It's going to play it safe.
And then it throws a tantrum.
Do what I say.
I'm going to make you feel uncomfortable.
I'm going to make you sweat.
I'm going to make you feel physically unwell, cry,
all these horrible things.
And you give into it.
And it's like a small child or like a dog having a tantrum,
and you're giving into it.
But that's not really a good place to be led around by, right?
Like, you need to be making, you need to be controlled.
You need to make these decisions.
And so I give people that knowledge, that awareness,
and how to get in control of their caveman brain,
and then push, just being willing to push through that discomfort
and welcome those uncomfortable emotions.
And then once you do that and start taking action,
doing the opposite of the caveman brain,
then the brain's chain, it actually learns very quickly.
It's like a switch just flips over.
And people are like, suddenly they're holding it.
It's like, just stick out your hand.
Everything gets just stick out your hand and do it.
And they're like, and they do it.
The spider walks across the hand.
Oh, this isn't so bad.
You just see it change from fear into fascination.
And that caveman brain starts learning really quickly.
And then you can start that process of changing the brain.
And then I work on different techniques
with unpredictability, because that's a big one.
So once a client gets really comfortable with the spider,
like, oh, I'm fine with it.
I'm like, OK, now sit in the bathroom.
I'm going to like, you're going to look at the wall.
And now I'm going to put a spider behind you.
And that's when their fear starts kicking off again.
Because they're like, oh, but I was like, you were just fine.
You were holding the spider.
You were fine with the spider.
But it's like, it's really that unknown.
It's the uncertainty.
Being out of control, that's the core root of the fear.
So I've developed lots of different techniques
to deal with that as well.
And I think that's hitting, that's the real thing.
It's not just having a spider in this very controlled
situation.
It's about being able to let go and deal with spider
in an uncontrolled situation as well.
I really love what you said about telling a story
from the perspective of the creature.
So in this case, obviously, spiders and tarantulas.
And I think I would be crying too at the end of it,
just because I love these creatures.
But I love that because that helps
to kind of place a person into a situation that's
unfamiliar to them and kind of takes them
on an entirely different adventure, if you will.
That's really quite fascinating.
It's really powerful.
It is actually really powerful.
I was surprised when I did the technique.
I didn't expect it to affect people as powerfully as it did.
But it does really touch people in profound ways.
Another technique we do is called Silly Spider,
where we change a spider in your mind
into a silly creature.
So you can imagine it with a funny costume on
and imagine it dancing and then kind of watching it dance
to funny music, et cetera.
And then you give it a funny name.
So my last client named her Spider Sparkles.
And then when you're actually seeing the spider,
it's like you then turn that spider into your silly spider,
if that makes sense.
And you remember that good memory that you
have with that silly spider.
So there's lots of imagination techniques, lots of CBT, NLP,
hypnotherapy, like I said.
Art therapy, we draw the silly spider afterwards.
I have a little printout that they can use so they
don't have to draw it from scratch.
So yeah, there's a lot of huge variety of techniques
that people use.
It's incredible.
I mean, going onto your YouTube channel,
I mean, you have so many testimonials.
It's clearly you're right on, which is fantastic.
So I love that.
Yeah, I mean, I have so much respect for what you're doing.
It's just fabulous.
Can I have a picture?
Yeah, go ahead.
We're doing the thing where you get people
so a spider's walking across them.
Has he ever bitten anybody?
Or has he ever spits hair?
Is that anybody?
Or is it just like house spiders?
Nope, nope, nope.
No, so in the UK, we have this lovely, lovely spider.
The common name is a house spider,
as you know, the big legy ones.
And then there are like trenches,
like the Labradoodles of a spider world, perfect therapy
spider.
They have very low venom anyway, but they've never bite people.
I don't know what it is.
I don't know why any animal would put up with this,
but no matter how much you poke it,
capture it with your hand, play with it,
it just puts up with anything and everything.
I've been doing this for nearly 10 years,
and they've never bit anyone.
London Zoo has been doing something similar to what I do
for nearly 30 years now, never bit anyone.
So they are a very tried and tested spider.
They have incredibly good natures.
And yeah, so they're the ones that everyone are afraid of.
So this is perfect because they're big and legy.
They move super fast.
They're like absolute perfect therapy spider.
And then the tarantulas, obviously,
every tarantula has its own kind of personality.
So all my therapy spiders are gramastolas.
That's the only species I'll use for handling.
No, I'll call them shallows.
Yeah, they're all right, but not as good as Grammys.
I'm passionate about my Grammys.
I've got 12 different species of Gramastola.
I'm very big into my Grammys.
And mine are like, though I have three or four
main handling ones, and they're like kittens,
they're a little puppy.
They just sit there.
They've been held by thousands of children.
I use them because they've never kicked hairs once.
They never shown any threat posture ever.
They're just like the most good natureed tarantulas ever.
So yeah, I very well behave spiders.
Very well behave spiders.
I would agree.
I think the Gramastolas are a little more well behaved
than my Afana Pylmas.
I have a Gramastola polka, and her name is Darth Vader.
And I've never seen her kick hairs or anything like that.
She actually is probably a good.
Yeah, I mean, they're just fantastic.
And of course, she's gorgeous because of those black velvet.
Big and black.
Yeah, yes.
Can't beat a polka.
I've got a little pink of a Gramastola
mount and a Gramastola conception, and they're
like kind of a pinky color.
And so peach is an apricot.
And they're like one of my first ones I have people hold
because they're kind of smaller, and they're just really cute,
and pink, and fluffy.
And it's like you can't not like them.
They're just adorable.
Heck yeah.
I love that.
That is just wonderful.
So OK.
I have a really big passion for spreading love
for these creatures because they are very misunderstood.
And I think they're doing so much good for the world as well.
Like I teach my clients how without spiders,
like life on earth would just be hell.
They basically eat 400 to 800 million tons of insects.
And that's equivalent to the weight of the entire human
population, if not double, which is even like an unimaginable
amount of insects.
And if they weren't there, these insects
would be in our bed biting our skin,
fighting over us, maggots everywhere,
like corrupting, spreading diseases,
like eating the plants, crops wouldn't grow.
It would literally, civilization would collapse.
And it's like, oh, save the bees.
Save the bees.
It was like, also save the spiders.
They're just important.
And so I help people fall in love with creepy crawly
and misunderstood animals.
I love all the weird animals.
I don't own a single normal animal.
All my animals are weird.
Like the animals I have is a sugar glider and a skunk.
No dogs are cats for me.
No dogs.
I love that.
But I like the skunk.
Yeah.
It really looks like a skunk.
A skunk are a raccoon.
Yeah.
Skunks.
Raccoon, I wouldn't recommend.
Skunks, 100%.
They make really good pets.
No, raccoons go vicious.
And they're no longer technically legal in the UK.
But skunks are like sleeping, pooping teddy bears.
That's what I call my skunk.
They just mix in bed with me, literally in my arms all night.
And he's like a hot water bottle.
And he's just lovely, fat, and squishy, and just, mm.
So.
Oh, that's adorable.
I love that.
I do have normal pets.
I have a dog and two cats.
And obviously, my tarantulas.
But yeah.
So OK.
So my next question is, what got you into being a therapist?
Like, how did you decide that that's what you wanted to do?
So they say, do what you love.
And obviously, I'd gotten into spiders in a big way.
I started with the house spider.
I saw it.
And I just fell in love with the house spider.
And I was like, I want a tarantula.
So I got a little versicolor at the time.
And then I just kind of took over from there.
And then I got into the scene.
Do you go to the shows, Simon?
Yeah.
The show?
Yeah.
What next, Eddie?
Yeah.
I'm going to Brighton next.
That's the next show.
So I got into the scene.
I got in with all the traders or the sellers.
And I'm actually, Creature Courage
is the only business endorsed by the British tarantula society.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Yeah.
So I'm really good friends with the chairman, Peter Kirk,
from the British tarantula society.
And through him, I asked him, can you come and see our business
and what we do?
And he just was crazy about it.
And he loved it.
He even worked for us for a short while,
like helping to do the handling and stuff.
And so I just got into the scene in a big way.
And sorry, I'm ADHD, so I'll ramble a bit.
Oh, no, you're absolutely OK.
But yeah, do what you love.
So I love spiders.
And I have sort of a creative background
and also a background in doing group therapy and helping people.
So I was like, I want to help.
And I loved animals.
I've had exotic, weird animals my entire life.
So it's like, I didn't want to breed animals
because I just felt like there's enough animals out there.
And it's hard work that cannot pay off, basically.
So I was like, what can I do?
Oh, I can help people get over their fears.
And I took my idea from London Zoo.
And I went on the London Zoo course.
I was like, wow, I could massively improve this.
So I kind of took everything that worked from the London Zoo
and then massively expanded it, especially
on the psychology end of things.
I actually get a lot of their clients who did.
It didn't work for them.
They'll come to see me.
I tried to form a collaboration with them.
And Peter Kirk from the British Trance Society even said,
hey, yeah, you should.
They're really good.
But oh, well.
But yeah, I got the idea because loads of people
were going to the London Zoo.
And I was like, well, clearly there's a demand
to cure spider phobias.
But they do these 40 people at one time.
And it don't find that really effective.
I do just one person, one-on-one day bootcamp for eight hours.
So it's a much different approach.
Yeah, much more personalized, much more, OK, this person,
I'm going to just completely focus on you
and get you to where you need.
So yeah, so that's kind of how it started, really.
I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur.
And so I just had to find that place where your skills
and your passion and everything just intersects.
You have to find that place where you can make money,
something that can make money, but also something
you're passionate about.
And because your heart has to be into it.
Running your own business is freaking hard work.
It's going to take your all.
You're going to have to work like seven days a week.
There's been many years of my life
where I just took breaks to eat dinner and bathe.
You know?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So it's really hard work.
I do got some bae.
I do.
I don't give up on my baths.
Always once a night.
That always happens.
So it's paid off.
And Creature Courage did become quite successful.
I've used several media appearances
like Good Morning Britain, ITV Sky News.
I worked in partnership with Chessington World
Adventures for a while.
So yeah, now I'm even getting international clients.
And I've expanded my business because I've inadvertently
become an anxiety expert doing all this.
So now I'm doing anxiety life coaching for people as well.
Because there was such a need for my clients
to expand the wider scope of their anxiety.
And now I'm offering coaching, which at least that's
a way I can help people internationally
because I can do that online.
So truly amazing.
Sorry, go on.
No, no, after you, Simon.
I apologize.
What?
I'm picking up the.
It's just a delay, isn't it?
You're not the only one who's talking.
What is the eye of God?
I mean, what is it?
You know, you say you've got anxiety.
I don't think I've got anxiety at all.
If I see a tarantula, my first reaction is, you know what I mean?
Get the shovel.
It's not run away from it.
It's getting shoveled and squished.
That's a lot more about tarantulas.
Obviously, I can't because of my wife's pets.
So I have to.
It's very uncomfortable sort of being around them
when she's feeding them.
And it's not an anxiety.
And I'm not like, oh, I'm not just bothering me at all.
But in that way, I just don't like the look of them.
It's not a fear of them.
I don't like the look of them.
They're horrible.
So for you.
It's real dinners or something.
I just don't like the look of it.
And I don't want it.
So for you Simon, is that more of a hatred thing maybe?
I don't know.
I used to keep spiders when I was a kid.
The cat's been keeping me.
I was in my big evil garden spiders.
We'd gotten everything.
And then I think it was an episode of Doctor Who,
where it was great big and superimposed half spiders,
British half spiders.
But it made them as big as a human.
And I was only small then.
And after that, I couldn't cope with the larger spikes,
like serrations, et cetera.
So it was like, come directly from that.
It didn't mean it.
I want to squash them.
I don't want to run away from them.
Well, I think the litmus test is like, can you hold one?
No.
Then you have anxiety.
Like for instance.
I feel really uncomfortable around human children.
But if I had to hold a baby, I could hold a baby.
But so there's a difference between extreme dislike or hatred
and actually fear.
Because if you can't actually hold it,
that means there is anxiety.
And you mentioned the word of being uncomfortable
while she's feeding them.
Like anxiety doesn't reveal itself
in always the most obvious ways.
People think, oh, phobias is always
this obvious extreme phobic reactions or sweat crying.
And a lot of my clients would think, oh, I'm not really
anxious person.
It's just this.
And then I go through my little caveman talk
and show them all the little ways anxiety rears its head
when we avoid things, when we procrastinate,
when we're comparing ourselves to others,
perfectionism, control issues.
And there's lots of little subtle ways
that anxiety, the caveman pokes its head up.
And unless we start becoming aware of the little ways,
the little anxious responses, they're just tiny ones.
And we do little what I call safety tactics to avoid.
We appease the caveman.
And it's these little subtle ways.
And until we start recognizing them,
being aware of the caveman and how we appease it
in all these different ways, then we're
not going to get over the bigger things that
are more obvious.
So if you can't hold the tarantula,
then there is an anxiety.
It is a caveman ruling you in that particular area of your life.
I just don't like them.
I just think they're horrible.
Hairy.
Well, we've got to work on that, don't we?
Right.
I've been working with, I mean, for months now,
I've been picking at them.
So OK.
Like, give me a jumpy spider.
No problem.
You know what I mean?
They are so cute.
The tarantulas, so OK.
I just want to put it on me.
I need to go. That's great.
That's how I like it.
It's just awful.
Awful.
What's been the day to get this, I mean?
Yes, I think so.
I think so.
I just have to stop.
We can't cope.
Any other book?
Yeah, fine.
Centipedes?
No problem.
You know what I mean?
And they are stupid.
How can you like centipedes more than tarantulas?
I know.
I'm not the most horrible bug.
I mean, don't be wrong.
I love all inverts, but they are so nasty.
Yeah, they really are.
They eat this like.
Yeah, I think give me the option.
Tarantula or centipedes, they give me the centipede every time.
You know, every time.
Tarantulas.
Yeah.
You're pinkies.
You guys, I love it.
I've got the same thing with cats.
Yep.
That absolute same thing with cats.
I cannot stand cats.
I love all animals.
Cats, cats down the road.
Is that also like domestic cats, big cats, all cats?
All cats.
Every cat I see, I think, oh, I just look at them.
And I think, wow, that is an ugly creature.
And I mean, it's just like, ah, horrible.
OK.
Just a little.
Yeah, I think you've got your work cut out for you with Simon here.
I'm going to go get a chance to go because I don't like cats because I really like cats.
You know, I was like, oh, awful.
Even the memes with the cats come up.
I go, ah, yeah, that's great.
I don't like it.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Strange soul, Simon.
I think it's not there would be a cat with eight legs.
That would be like, I mean, that's a tarantula.
That's like my dream pet.
That's my dream pet.
Yeah.
I'm fine.
I'll send it to you.
I mean, my nickname is Britain kitten.
That's my artist name, actually.
So it's, but yeah, I'm a very cat-like person.
Awesome.
I love it.
Just absolutely wonderful.
So, sorry, before we get too off track.
So what would you say is like the most prevalent cause for any kind of phobias or, you know, animal phobias and whatnot?
You did say that uncontrollable unpredictability aspect.
Yeah.
I mean, in a way, this answer is kind of boring because it's things that we learned quite young.
We're only born with two fears and that's the fear of falling and loud noises and everything else is learned.
Some people think like, oh, well surely something like spiders must be innate.
Not actually, but the unpredictability element about it is something we learn quite quickly to fear.
Because if you think back when we were caveman, anything could hurt us.
You know, unlike other mammals, we're quite vulnerable.
We're quite soft and squishy and we don't have fangs or claws.
We don't have poison or venom or a hard shell or wings to fly away from.
We can't even run that fast compared to other animals.
Sea here smells as well as other animals.
So how the hell are we like at the top of the food chain?
Well, our intelligence.
So we had to have a pretty strong fight or flight fear response to stay alive because literally anything could kill us.
Our survival brain doesn't care for happy.
It doesn't care.
Honestly, there's a part of your brain that is actively working against your happiness because all it cares about is that you're alive and alive long enough to pass down your genetic material.
Job done.
Doesn't matter if you're stressed out every single day of your life.
So we had it picks up on things from very early on and we learn phobias either from our parents or from experiences early on.
Like, oh, you just saw as a small child, you saw spider dart out in front of you very quickly.
As adults, we don't think that's scary, but as a child, that was terrifying.
And there's like a little trigger made in your brain.
And the next time you see spider, you're like, and then you just make it a conditioned response.
It gets bigger, bigger, bigger, or we model it off of our parents, which is, you know, a lot of my clients are getting it from their children.
I suppose if you have children and you have a phobia, please get it over because it's going to pass it on to your kids more than I say.
And it's not a very fun thing for people to have, you know, that extra anxiety.
Spiders are unpredictable. They can appear anytime, any place.
So this puts people with spider phobias on edge quite a bit.
So yeah, that's basically it's just part of our survival brain trying to be rather safe than sorry.
Because we, you know, as cavemen, we didn't have any medical care right there.
Like one little spiderbite or one little scratch can get infected. And that's it.
We don't, we don't survive.
We're just playing super, super safe. Unfortunately, we've got to retrain it to understand what's not a threat anymore.
Wow. Wow. Yeah, that's, that's so cool.
It's really amazing because I believe over here in elementary schools, they call the caveman brain, they call that like either using your, your lizard or wizard.
You've got your lizard, like what you're saying is that caveman and then the wizard is being able to kind of overcome that and move past it.
So very, very cool. Very, very cool.
That's our prefrontal cortex, the wizard.
Yeah.
Which is actually our true selves.
We have to, we have to think about caveman is not who we really are. We're not defined by fear.
And so many people start identifying as the caveman and they don't know how to separate that voice out and they kind of see themselves as these, you know, almost shamefully fearful people.
And it's like, no, that's not the real you. It's just a survival instinct that's been trained to, to be hyper vigilant.
We just have to retrain it, but your true self isn't that, that part of you.
And so it's about, you know, like you mentioned earlier, Simon, like liberating people to, to get their lives back and control their emotions again.
Absolutely. I mean, your passion for tarantulas and, and the creepy, you know, creepy crawlies and stuff really comes through in your work.
It's very, very clear that you, you really do care.
And I think that's really, really amazing and respectable.
And I'm, I'm here for it all the way.
Thank you so much.
Absolutely. So another question that I have for you was to kind of like walk us through a day in the spider courage experience, like what, what kind of things you did say that it's very personalized, but, you know, just kind of a general overview of what that actually entails.
Yeah. So the first thing I do is an anchoring technique to give them a, a resource of courage straight off the bat.
So help them create a new condition response for fascination and courage that they can continue to reinforce after I work together.
Then I do a talk on building that fascination and compassion and dispelling myths about spiders and pointing out all the amazing things they do.
Interesting facts because like compassion and fascination are really key to getting over the fear.
I don't think people will get over the fear unless they're willing to open themselves up to having that compassion and just interest in that animal.
So we work on building that up.
Then we do that imagination technique I told you about, we're becoming a spider.
Then the next section is all about the wider scope of psychology about educating people about their caveman brain, different techniques around how to handle their caveman brain, looking at the wider scope of their anxiety and where their other triggers might lie.
So they can start practicing, you know, confronting the caveman brain in those areas as well and just being more aware in general.
And then we do the silly spider with the art therapy. Let me do the hypnotherapy, which is a really good thing to do right before the immersive therapy because it really chills people out.
I can imagine.
Do you, do you use the hypnotherapy therapy yourself?
Yeah, I'd use hypnotherapy. Everything, all the tools that we teach, I practice and preach in my whole life.
I live what I teach to everyone else.
So I know that it works on a personal level, not just what I'm teaching to others.
I never had an animal phobia, but I had to overcome a lot of anxiety, panic attacks and fear and depression in my own life.
So, you know, if I can be a functioning, healthy human being, so can anyone.
Absolutely. Totally understandable.
It's all possible.
Yeah, and then we finish up the day, obviously with the immersive part of the therapy, where like, there's loads of different techniques of exposure to get people and particularly aimed at dealing with the unpredictability and getting situations to be less and less controlled so people can deal with that
core root of the fear, which is being out of control.
Amazing. Very, very cool.
What do you think, Simon? Do you have another question?
I'm just thinking, I'm taking it if it's not both, which you say, I could actually try it myself.
You know, because as you know, my best friend is an endotherapist.
He's a really good one. He's got a war of sorts with his wasm.
So, you know, he must be good at it. He's never done it with me because he can't.
I'm going to take on board what you said and what he said and, you know, the things like that and see if I can.
I don't think I could talk to him, but I could possibly be less repulsed by them.
If you know what I mean, I got it. It's because he did repulse me. They just like, oh, I'm a viral creature.
So I might take your bits on board. I might even draw a silly spider, I don't know yet. And, you know, just see how close I can get to one without actually touching it.
I don't want to touch it. So, I'll try it. I'll give you a go.
Yeah, I would say work out. If you work on that compassion end of things, seeing things from a different way, just seeing it as a creature that wants to live like anything else
and just wants to exist like anything else and every creature, you can feel a sort of connection in that way.
So just work on it that way. And as I said, I'm always here for you if you want the proper fall session to get over that for good.
I think the problem is I actually see spiders when I see a spider out, I see them as lunch for my mantis.
So I don't have that compassion when you're saying I'm looking at them go look for lunch because they've got spiders.
So I just throw a spider and that's great. And that's how I see them. So look at them.
I have knowledge of spiders like anything you mentioned so far I already knew.
So that's not the problem.
But the compassion part I'm going to struggle with because I just don't see them that way.
I think, oh yeah, okay, you're annoying.
That's basically what they are to me.
So start seeing your fear as annoying, not them.
Yeah, change the mindset and then you change your mind.
I mean, like I have compassion. I mean, even for the crickets and the feeder roaches, I have compassion.
I feel very bad every time I have to feed my spiders. I like keeping that connection of, you know, this is a living creature and I am sorry for its death.
I have compassion towards the crickets and the locus and the nails.
And that way, when I feed it, it upsets me to feed them even though I have to do it like hundreds of times a day.
I actually get very upset feeding them.
The roaches are the worst.
I don't really do their roaches. I give up. I now have a box down here which is a pack of doobie roaches.
I've got them with the intention of feeding them to the nonces and then they thought, now you're too cute. You're not going to feed them.
But yeah, spiders, no problem. Get off from the nonces. No big deal. Don't even think twice.
I think that's my bad.
Okay, well, I want to journey compassion. That's what I would say.
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Well, do you have a favorite species of tarantula or spider in general?
Well, Gramastola, Gramastola male, which is the Chilean gold fluff, probably my favorite.
Hardcore, as I said, I'm hardcore Gramastola fan.
I have loads of them.
My collection slowly, slowly turning into jazz Gramastola.
And I'm a pretty big Taylor Swift scorpion fan.
Very cool. Okay.
I love how they look like the stuff of Nightmares, but they're really so gentle and cool.
I have a therapy one called Muffin.
And like after people hold those spiders, I'm like, here, now hold this.
He's like, ah, I'm looking very, but he's so gentle and sweet.
And he just sits there like, no flipping his little like tenna legs and just, I don't know.
I love them. I love them for how freakish they are and weird looking they are and just fascinating.
And Muffin's got crumpet pregnant. I'm super excited about that.
Oh, beautiful.
That's a girlfriend.
You can like literally see the eggs in the belly.
It's like so disgusting yet precious all at the same time.
Awesome.
What species of peaches?
Because I feel like peaches is like your, she's kind of your, is she, oh, beautiful.
I was curious about that because I, I, while I was watching the video from Good Morning Britain with Piers Morrigan, which awesome.
How cool was that?
But in any case, I was watching that and I'm looking at peaches going, what species is this?
That's quite rare.
Yeah.
Maybe 10, maybe 15 max in the country and I have two.
So, wow.
There's not a lot of them.
How'd you get so lucky to get your hands on this?
I'm just determined and I know all the breeders.
Beautiful.
10 back foot, go at you.
Was it 10 back foot that got at you?
Is it?
So I say again?
10 back foot.
Did he supply you scoping?
From which company?
10 back foot is one of the breeders. It's like the UK's biggest scoping breeders, which is.
It's pretty cool.
You have to look at my Facebook.
A lot of my stuff, like I got before the Polish left and everyone else left because Brexit.
I know you mean.
Yeah.
But I'm friends with like, you know, I don't know if you know, Vinnimus Visions, like he, Tony, he only lived like 10 minutes away and we hang out all the time.
And he has a lot of connections as well.
Yeah.
I'm friends with the guys that's, you know, at the spider shop, I'm friends with Port Mitterangelos.
I'm just friends with all like most of the people on the scene.
So if I want, if I want something, I go, I go seeking and I usually find what I want.
I'm pretty determined individual.
So that's really cool.
I love that.
I think that in the invert world and like getting what you want, it definitely takes that degree of determination.
So I commend you for that.
That's amazing.
Very cool.
But spider spider keeping spiders as a hobby is also kind of like very frustrating because you can spend a lot of money and put a lot of effort to acquiring a rare species and they can just randomly die for no reason.
Yeah.
Not any understandable reason.
And it's so frustrating.
I was like, oh, yeah.
We need more research into why these things happen.
I've been saying this, I've suddenly said there's scorpion died today and for scorpion.
I said, is it old age?
She said, no, it just randomly died.
Everything is set up correctly.
Our temperatures and it just randomly died.
I hear that so many times, especially spiders, I get it with the mantis and they just like they look fine one day next day to death and you think what happened?
What change?
So then we'll see.
I mean, you do also.
I do.
I always try to look and see what's going wrong because obviously you don't want any more spiders to die and you want to get things right.
So absolutely.
It can be a very frustrating thing because you can think you're doing everything right.
And then.
Yeah.
And especially I always kind of chalk that up to like, well, it happens in nature that way as well.
Like they, you know, have in all actuality, spiders and tarantulas are designed to have so many babies in one egg sack because, you know, half of them are going to die.
Just.
Yeah.
Sorry.
What's also frustrating is also bad malts.
Mm hmm.
I lost one of my, my big, one of my big Grammy females over a bad.
Oh, I must all act in and I had to like, I think it was a wet mull and I like, I literally performed surgery, got her successfully out of the mall.
Thought she was out of the clear, like she was fine for like a week, two weeks, I think she even ate once.
Oh, just died.
Just died.
Like about three weeks after the bad mall.
And I was like, no.
And then I have them where they get the thing mangled.
And you have to almost teach him that you can eat with the main thing.
And actually, sadly, peaches has got a mangled thing.
And she, but she's like, not a fighter really, because she's super passive.
That's why she's a handling spider.
And one of my other grandma stole is she had a twisted thing and I taught her to eat again and she's fine.
She's eating with the one good thing.
That's good.
Has one good thing.
But I'm worried about her because she's not like, she doesn't got that fighter spirit.
She's like this really passive animal.
So yeah, I'm really worried and she, I can tell it's bothering her because she's just acting a bit weird and she gets all uncomfortable and like, like standing up weird and because it's kind of twisted and like on her pedipal.
And she's just, she's, it's bothering her.
And I, I hope she just makes a connection that you can still eat with one thing.
Yeah.
But I'm, she's never been like a really, I hate trans just like this where they just, they just barely eat.
You're like, why don't you eat more?
And they just like, I'll eat, you know, four times a year.
And that's it.
Yeah.
That's like, it makes you so nervous because you're just like, just show me that you're healthy and you're happy and like, everything's good.
It's like every Afana palma ever.
For sure.
I'm like, I'm a little bit nervous for peaches.
Is she still, you know, she's malted not long ago and we'll see how it goes.
But I just forced fed her a mealworm today.
So I'll see, which is not fun.
Yeah.
Well, my thoughts and prayers are going out to peaches.
Absolutely.
Yes.
So do you have any advice for anyone out there who wants to overcome their phobias and any advice as far as like first steps, what you should do?
The first thing is, you know, stop, you have to accept that when you need to do the thing that you didn't think you could do.
That's the only way to get over the fear because caveman brain doesn't learn by rationale.
It's not connected to a rational whatsoever.
So you can't convince it.
You can't just sit there like, you know, so I probably can't convince yourself trying to rationally like, you know, just hold the spider.
Like it's not a rational thing.
So it's about taking action.
That's the only way to train that caveman brain and just accept ahead of time that I have to, I have to sit through the tantrum.
It's not going to feel nice.
Caveman is going to have is, you know, just imagine a little kid kicking off in your head, making you feel uncomfortable.
But you're like, no, you're not going to be the one in control anymore.
I'm going to be the one.
Okay.
I'm going to sit through this, you know, and we're going to get through it and you have to push through that.
And then that's you taking back control.
And when you take action, that caveman brain is going to start to learn.
I think the biggest thing to remind yourself is like, if I avoid, if I just listen to what the caveman is telling me to do,
it's going to make it worse and worse and worse because I'm reaffirming and teaching and making a conditioned response that this is a real threat and that I should really be afraid.
And then you're going to have even more panic, even more horrible feelings.
So just start taking action, being willing to sit through the caveman tantrum.
And the sooner you take action, the quicker the caveman will change.
You won't feel all those horrible things anymore.
Wonderful.
Thank you so much for that.
Yeah, of course.
And it's like you say, you fix this and you won't feel all that horrible things anymore.
If I don't go near them, I won't feel those horrible.
I don't have the problem with sharks because I'm never going near them.
So that.
Yeah, but have you seen behind you?
You're in deep man.
You're in the invert world.
This is all mantis.
I'm quite happy about this.
Over there.
You're in the invert world.
Isn't that cool?
She's got one of those.
This is your life.
Yeah, I know it is.
It's so.
So unfortunately for you, this is not a shark.
No, no, but I wasn't expecting ever we started the business.
So I was expecting ever so I have tarantulas.
That was not.
Once you get into it is like it all happens.
You know, I have so many different weird species of bugs.
I never thought I would have.
Yeah.
It's just part of it.
You're in the invert world.
That's it man.
I agree.
I never, I honestly never thought that I would be interested in keeping
like millipedes and stuff.
And now I'm all over it just kind of looking like, oh, which Millipedes
are the best for beginners, which ones are, you know, so I definitely agree.
Once you're in the invert world, it's that's it.
It's kind of a slippery slope.
You're in.
And you're going to shows and things and all of that.
Yeah.
And you said your partner likes what's trans has tarantulas.
She has tarantulas.
Yeah.
I know that he has these mantis, but she has bloody tarantulas.
No, I don't know.
Yeah.
It's in your house.
It's in your world.
You can't ignore this.
She'll touch the mic and look up her arm.
She goes, oh, look at you.
What are you doing on my arm?
I think you're like, kill it, kill it.
That's what I think.
You kill it.
Don't let that near you.
What are you doing that?
You know, awful.
In summer, she was showing her mother came over to England and she was showing
her mother one of the tarantulas and it came out of the enclosure.
She has three million.
He ran up her air and got tangled in her air.
Oh, goodness.
And she's like screaming out, get it out.
Get it out.
And I'm like, no.
I'm like, listen, her mother actually just come, got down to the tarantula,
bring it back in the enclosure.
And I was like, I felt so emasculated at that moment.
Oh, goodness.
I just take in control of the situation that I could not handle at all.
And that's not a value you want, is it?
That's not a value you want to hold for yourself, is it?
If there's a situation like that, you want to be capable and strong and courageous.
Oh, no, I don't care about that.
I don't do all the things.
That's my issue.
Just at the moment, it embodies me.
But after I'm just laughing at it, then that's how I feel.
No, no.
But that's what I mean in those moments.
Oh, yeah.
You're not living your values.
And that's the caveman.
You can definitely identify the caveman when you're not living your true values of
who you really want to be.
Because safety tactics are usually things of avoidance.
And you can just focus on that, like, that's not who I want to be.
I want to be someone who can be in control of my emotions and I can take care of things
and help people when needed.
I don't want to limit myself.
I couldn't take care of the situation, but she wanted to keep this fire.
Exactly.
And there's no need to unnecessarily kill this fire.
I've put a mantis near it and it's game over.
But she wants to keep spider life and that's something in my head.
He's like, why?
Why?
Because we love them.
We do love them.
Absolutely.
And also, you can really work on the fascination end of thing too, because it's scientifically
proven that fascination and fear connects to the same part of the brain.
Like a coin, you can really flip it over like a switch quite easily.
It's why people are really drawn to things like horror films.
I have a lot of friends who are racnophobic and so many of them, because I know I have
a room full of spiders and bugs, but it's all locked up.
They don't have to see them if they don't want to.
A lot of them are like, oh, actually, can I go see it?
Can I go see him?
I'm like, yeah, yeah.
And then they go in.
I don't push it onto anyone, but they're like, oh, can I get a bit closer?
Can you open up the cage?
And they're terrified, yet they're drawn to it.
And it's like, it's a very easy emotion, because fascination is much more positive emotion than fear.
So if you can just shift it into being more fascinated, you can dominate the fear feeling
with fascination.
That's what I do in my anchoring technique, is help you dominate fear with more positive
emotions, so you can start shifting the fear.
I agree with that.
I found that once I was able to get past my fear of spiders and tarantulas, my fascination
was just so overwhelming that I couldn't get enough of them.
And I'm still like that.
The more I see of different species, the more I'm like, oh my god, I have to have them all.
It's like Pokemon, right?
Got to catch them all.
Yes, yes.
Most certainly.
But I'm afraid it has gotten to the part of our podcast where we do our shameless plug.
So I'm going to pass that on to you, Britain.
Do you have anything that you just shamelessly want to plug?
Anything coming up in the future, something that you're doing, whatever it is.
So I don't, I actually just did a big talk where I did the psychology of fear.
But I might be doing, you have to watch the space because I don't have anything particularly
planned.
But what I would say is everyone does have a fear.
I'm doing some new, maybe new things in the distant future, but right now nothing up in
Cummings that's happening.
But I would just say if anyone has a fear, if you can get to me, please come.
I will help you.
It can be cured.
Just don't, you don't, it can't, you know, so many people think that can never be fixed,
but it can be fixed and I want to help you.
I do.
All I need is your determination.
If you're like, okay, I'm at the point where I'm ready to do anything and everything to
get over this fear.
It's just one, one day and you know, it's like a plaster.
Just rip it off, get it over with and we can, you know, short term pain for long term freedom.
Okay.
And it's not really that hard.
It's actually a really fun day out and you, and you get to learn lots of fun things.
But a much more empowering day and fun day than you might imagine.
So come get your fears fixed.
And if you can't get to me, I can still do anxiety coaching from anywhere in the world.
So I've helped hundreds of people deal with the wider spectrum of their anxiety.
I can still help with elements of an animal phobia and then maybe help you find a way
to, to expose yourself as well to the animal in a healthy, good way.
And, and also address your wider spectrum of anxiety, finding the caveman and even in
the little ways it whispers.
It's like a personal trainer for the mind, you know, no pain, no gains, helping you stretch
your mind, build your muscles, get out of your comfort zone, but become, improve your
overall mental health to be happier and healthier and more in control of your emotions and not
stressed out anymore.
Take backing, taking back that control.
So that's what I would say.
Come see me if you, if you have a problem with anxiety, have a problem with the animal phobia,
please come see me.
I would love to help you and support you and watch the space.
I will be, have lots of exciting things in the near future.
I am doing an online digital course.
So that will be happening in 2024.
Wonderful.
And I'm going to be doing a lot more speaking engagement in 2024 as well and presentations,
animal handling experiences.
Oh, and you can catch me at any of the shows.
I will be at Brighton.
I think it's the 20, I can't remember the date of it.
What's the Brighton show?
Come on.
Do you know Simon?
Brighton Invert Show.
I'll Google it real quick, but I'll be at the Brighton show so you can see our stuff over there.
No, that's not me.
It's the 26th from 11 to 6th at South, South Leisure Center, Brighton.
You can come see me there and meet, meet my wonderful, are you going to be there, Simon?
No, because it's down south, so no, I'm not going to venture down there, no.
Okay.
Sorry.
I'll get him one day.
You will.
Simon, did you have anything you wanted to shamelessly plug?
Just this Invert podcast, really.
My channel, of course, produces the Mantis Garden, so that's it.
My business, Brighton and Mantis.
Wonderful.
All right.
For me, my shameless plug is I actually have a sponsor on my channel, W Energy.
Yeah, right?
It's my very first one, so I'm very excited.
But it's actually W Energy, it's an energy drink, but it doesn't use sugar or dyes or any of that stuff.
So it's all like vitamin based.
And yeah, this stuff, it's all vitamin based and the caffeine that they use is derived from the coffee fruit.
So very cool.
I'm going to plug that.
And then, of course, Creature Courage and Britain Kitten.
You are fantastic.
Thank you so much for being on our channel.
I truly enjoyed having you and being able to discuss the fears of all creatures, really.
And just learning exactly what you do and how you help people.
I think that's incredible.
Very cool.
Super kudos to you.
I hope you keep doing what you do because I love it.
And yes, hope to see you in the future.
Yeah, it was my pleasure.
I really enjoyed the time.
It was great talking to you both.
I'll come back anytime.
And let's spread the invert love.
Always, always.
All right, you guys, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you everyone for watching.
And if you liked what you saw, of course, like and subscribe.
We will see you guys next time.
Good night.