1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,760 Hello and welcome to Inverted Cast. I'm Nat and today we're joined by Leah from Tarantula 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:18,400 Lears and Logan is going to join us shortly hopefully. How are you doing, Leah? 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,400 I'm great. How are you, Nat? 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:27,920 Do you know what? I'm not too bad actually. Big day as I was saying to you off-screen 5 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,600 when we were, you know, it's been the Western Invert Show, one of the biggest 6 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:41,520 Invert Shows apart from BTS in the UK and it was intense. It was hot, sticky, everyone had 7 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:48,480 like beads of sweat coming from their heads. No one could get to any tables but it was great. 8 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,120 Awesome. So just sort of recovering from that at the moment. 9 00:00:53,120 --> 00:01:00,960 Wonderful. Yeah, they had lots of soil there, Leah, and I think that's what we're going to be 10 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:07,520 talking about today, isn't it? Substrate. Yes, substrate and just kind of how we do our 11 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:13,360 enclosures. How we make them. It's sort of like an open discussion really, isn't it? 12 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:23,840 I wouldn't say this is a definitive how-to guide because things change 13 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:32,320 constantly as we know within the hobby. But yeah, I think it's a really interesting topic. 14 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:41,520 It is. I agree. I totally agree because, well, you do your substrate and your enclosures with 15 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:48,320 the bioactive. So usually you have life plans. It's semi-bioactive. I wouldn't say it's fully 16 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:53,360 bioactive. And if we think about the podcast from last week when we were speaking to Brian 17 00:01:54,640 --> 00:02:03,760 from Rubber Ducky Icepods, he was talking really bioactive on the sub microscopic level. Whereas 18 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:10,960 I think mine look more, they look bioactive, but they do have life plans in them. Yeah. 19 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:17,920 That's good. I would say that I stay away from icepods within my mix and other sort of life 20 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:23,520 things, but I do put springtails in. Oh, that's always good. Yes. What about you? What's yours? 21 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:32,240 Are you a bioactive or what do you do? Actually, no. I'm more naturalistic, but I'm basically 22 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:39,920 mimicking nature. So I do have kind of like the little synthetic plants and stuff that I buy at 23 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:47,120 craft stores. And then I will, lately I've been doing little magnets on the leaves and stuff so 24 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:53,600 that I can just place them on. I've seen they look amazing. It's like amazing little hack there, 25 00:02:53,600 --> 00:03:00,160 really. Yeah. And it works really well because if the tarantula decides to tear apart the enclosure 26 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:08,160 or tear apart the leaves and whatnot, they can still be used later in like another enclosure 27 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:15,440 or something. So I am not bioactive, but I will occasionally throw springtails into enclosures 28 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:22,080 if it's getting, if it seems to be getting kind of mildewy or it's like too moist. 29 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,160 Then those little mats kind of show up. So then I will throw the springtails or 30 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:34,400 a couple isopods in there just to keep everything kind of balanced. So maybe I'm half and half. 31 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:42,240 So what are you using? So we could actually start on what is actually available, right? 32 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:50,800 Yes, absolutely. So cocoa fiber. I think everyone really starts with cocoa fiber, don't they? Or 33 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,800 is it core? People call it core as well. Is that right? No, that's not the right pronunciation. 34 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:05,280 Maybe. I don't, I know that I use, there's actually quite a few substrates out there. So there's like 35 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:13,840 a few from like Zilla and, what's the reptile one? It's called reptile, something reptile. 36 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:22,160 I don't know. XO, oh, it's XO, Xotera. That's the one I think. Oh, the Xotera substrates. Yeah. 37 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:28,960 Yeah. And then Zilla substrates. And then of course there's BioDude who I'm kind of a fan of BioDude. 38 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:37,440 He's got some good stuff. But yeah, there's quite a few. And I actually even know people who will get 39 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:46,800 like potting soil without the pesticides. So you can get potting soil without pesticides. 40 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:56,240 And so the organic compost and potting soil and everything. So what do you use? What is your 41 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:06,400 go-to at the moment? At the moment, my go-to is Zilla Jungle Mix Substrate. So it's called 42 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,400 Jungle Mix. I don't really know what that means, but I know that there's little bits of sphagnum 43 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:16,880 moss and kind of charcoal and just kinds of things that like add texture to the substrate rather than 44 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:24,320 it just being dirt or, you know, like cocoa fiber. And then you have like twigs and different 45 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:31,200 detritus in it, like break down. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. So they're really great, really substantial for 46 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:37,440 those, you know, for isopods and that bioactive enclosures. I just don't plant plants. 47 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:48,880 So I think with that substrate, you can actually plant live plants into it, can't you? 48 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:57,520 Yes, I believe so. I think it's recommended to maybe put a potting compost below it. So like a 49 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,960 sublayer and then having that on top. So it's got some areas to root into. 50 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:12,400 Awesome. Well, when we, if we go back to cocoa fiber, so everyone kind of starts off with cocoa 51 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:19,920 fiber in the hobby. Yes. I definitely did. I am trying to quit. I go to a cocoa fiber monthly 52 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:25,680 group and we all stand round saying that, you know, we've given up cocoa fiber and we're now bioactive 53 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:37,840 and no, I joke. Coco fiber, it's cheap. I don't know if you find it, it's quite a cheap 54 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:45,680 substrate to get. I agree. I do think that is very cost effective. The only issue with it is that it 55 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:52,960 is only cocoa fiber. Yeah. For me, that's kind of a pitfall. Like I would rather mix that in with 56 00:06:52,960 --> 00:07:00,400 something else to make it give it that texture like it would have in nature because, you know, 57 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:06,400 obviously habitats, they're all going to range a little bit, but they all will have, you know, 58 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:12,720 some leaf litter and little bits of wood or little bits of, you know, moss and stuff like that. 59 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,760 Like dirt isn't just one thing. Do you think the spider knows this though? 60 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:26,000 I, you know, I think that no, they really do. I don't think they do. I'm not sure they care. 61 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:35,600 I think with cocoa fiber, it's definitely a really good place to start. And as some of our listeners 62 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:44,800 have said, using it for things, if you're raising slings, if you're doing quick changes between 63 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:50,880 some, some people, some people will keep a tarantula. Let's say let's talk about tarantulas, 64 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,600 because that's what me and you are comfortable with. They will start off on a sling pot and 65 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,400 then go straight to the adult enclosure because they want to reduce that. So you might be thinking 66 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,920 you go from cocoa fiber over to whatever substrate you use. I would also say that there's like some 67 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:15,440 really big influencers within the community, aren't there? So if you're thinking about Petco, Tom Moran, 68 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:24,320 Richard from the tarantula collective, if you look at their older videos, they use cocoa fiber. 69 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:32,560 They do. They use cocoa fiber. It has a place. One really good thing I like about cocoa fiber 70 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:39,520 is that it's light. Yeah, I do like that too. When we're thinking about moving our 71 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,240 enclosures, we're going to do feeding. Some people may not be able to do feeding on the shelf. 72 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,160 My dream would be to have something like Petco's got a nice setup. 73 00:08:52,160 --> 00:09:00,160 Petco's got the dream. When it comes to a critter room, he's got a really great setup. I agree. 74 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:10,560 I love his shelvings. But one of the main issues and it has been touched on is that 75 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:21,280 cocoa fiber dries out really fast. So it does dry out really fast and if you're keeping 76 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:30,880 a humid, dependent tarantula, let's say, it's another job on top of the many other jobs that 77 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:38,480 we have when we keep spiders. There's also the thing that I've come across quite a lot 78 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:51,120 is about how it compacts. So we want to make sure, especially because, let's say, for instance, 79 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:56,800 tarantulas are quite fragile. So if they fall, you will fluff up your cocoa fiber, put it into the 80 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,440 enclosure, the five gallon, ten gallon, whatever exoterra you've got. 81 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:10,080 And over time, it will slowly shrink and compact. And so that's increasing that height. 82 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:19,600 But it is very versatile. It can be used. Spiders, tarantulas will use it. Oh yeah. 83 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:28,240 They can web, they can tunnel in it. So and when you, lots of people aren't aware of this, but 84 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:33,440 when you look like you're taking one of those enclosures apart, you'll get a tube of silk come out 85 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:40,000 and it'll be what's supporting that cocoa fiber so they can have that. So it definitely has that, 86 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:49,040 but it benefits are as well, is that it doesn't mold easy. It does mold, but it doesn't mold. 87 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:57,600 Not very easy. It's definitely something because it's not so full of bioactiveness, I suppose. 88 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:05,040 True. I agree. Well, and that's actually one of the reasons that I use the Zilla jungle mix 89 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:11,760 is because I have found that that is, it's relatively light. It's similar to cocoa fiber, 90 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:19,680 but it also allows for those burrows and it keeps moisture a little better than the cocoa fiber does. 91 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,360 And for me, that's kind of a huge issue just because I live here in Colorado. 92 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:33,680 So we're at high altitude. So the air up here is a lot thinner, which means that moisture is just 93 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,440 sucked right out of the air really quickly. So for my moisture dependent tarantulas, 94 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:46,240 I don't, like I said, don't like to use cocoa fiber a whole lot just because of that moisture 95 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:52,560 side of everything. So with what I use, it keeps moisture really well. Like, 96 00:11:52,560 --> 00:12:01,040 let me see if I can find, so this is my Trinidad pink. It's the cereal cosmos longa peas. 97 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:07,200 And you can see that it, there's like a layer that is just maintained that moisture 98 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,160 because this is, you know, another tarantula that definitely depends on that moisture. 99 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,520 So that's another reason I really like this is because I can see just how, 100 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:25,680 how much humidity or how much moisture is still in there. Yeah, so it makes sense to me for that. 101 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:33,680 But I do like cocoa fiber. I do think it's like if the tarantulas burrow like caves in somehow or 102 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:39,760 like just kind of crumbles down the cocoa, it's not going to hurt the tarantula as badly. Yeah. 103 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:50,480 You know, yeah, I think also a negative with it as well is it's positive. First of all, 104 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:55,280 let's go with a positive. It's really easy to store because it comes in those little pucks or 105 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:02,480 the bricks and things. Yeah, the flip side of that though, the negative is the preparation time. 106 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:09,440 So if you have to soak it and you're not going to want to put freshly soaked 107 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:16,640 cocoa fiber into an enclosure, you want to leave it for a day or so to evaporate off a little bit. 108 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:23,360 So that's, I would say that that's kind of another negative. But as we're talking about substrate, 109 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:31,040 I think we've definitely come on leaps and bounds, especially I would say over the last 10 years. 110 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:41,680 Oh, absolutely. Compared to maybe how we were keeping inverts before. So there's definitely 111 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:51,200 something to be said that back in the day and it's so back in the day and not saying that it's wrong. 112 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:58,480 But how tarantulas used to be kept on for myculite. I know there's probably people 113 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,680 listening to this to probably still keep their tarantulas on for myculite. 114 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:08,720 I'm sure for myculite is still very useful for a lot of, you know, invertekeepers and stuff. 115 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:13,600 I have never used it personally. So I really don't know. Sorry. 116 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,120 No, no, no, no, I was listening. I was agreeing with you. 117 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:23,680 Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, I haven't used it, but I do know that for myculite, the reason that they 118 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:30,640 did use it was because it was really great at maintaining that moisture. As far as I know, 119 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,600 like that's kind of why a lot of people really liked it. And that was just kind of the go to thing, 120 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:42,960 you know, 10, 15 years ago. And then also orc bark chippings. There we go. I got that out. 121 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:51,680 Orc bark chip. You'll see people that still keep their spiders on that. And 122 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:59,600 well, when we need to try and understand is why that is. And I think going back 10 years, okay, 123 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:08,400 you didn't have such brilliant tarantula dealers about back then. So you would go to your local 124 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:17,600 pet shop. We'll keep a OBT that say, just for argument's sake, on orc bark chippings. The 125 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:23,920 reason why they're doing that is because they want the spider to be out and be visible. So, 126 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,400 but you, you learn through visual things. And if that's how the pet shop keeps it, that's how 127 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,400 you're going to keep it. And, you know, we could then go into like red light bulbs and things, 128 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:43,040 but we won't talk about that today. But you will. And it's in, it's in a lot of the literature and a 129 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:51,040 lot of YouTube videos, old YouTube videos, you might get a YouTube video that's got, let's say, 130 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:56,480 a million views, but it's been out for 10 years. So we need to really think about that math side 131 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:02,080 of things that is going to have more views. It's going to be there. It doesn't necessarily mean 132 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:09,040 that it's correct. Well, and that's one thing that I really like about our hobby. And that's 133 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:15,360 what makes this podcast so wonderful is that we're always changing. We're always learning. We're, 134 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,640 you know, developing new skills. We're, we're seeing things that weren't working before. 135 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:27,840 And we tweak them, tweak and peak, as they say, and fix it and make it work better. 136 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:36,400 And so, yeah, I agree. Like some of some videos from, you know, five, 10 years ago are not always 137 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:44,640 going to be the best information, like for now. No, no. And that translates over to loads of stuff, 138 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:52,560 doesn't it? Within the real world. So, absolutely. But talking about the vermiculite side of things, 139 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:59,520 I've, I've been informed recently. I can't remember who it is. I think it might be through 140 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:05,600 tarantula ramblings. We were talking about vermiculite, vermiculite in substrate and talking 141 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:12,480 about mold and different outbreaks, because also mold is like a really fearful thing. It's not nice 142 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:19,680 to look at. No, you're worried if it's going to affect your spider in some way. Right. There is 143 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:28,000 definitely a concern of that. Well, I do believe that it does. I think mold actually can attract 144 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:34,320 those parasites that we really don't want coming into our enclosures and get into those tarantulas, 145 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:40,720 because, you know, mites is one thing. We can do something about mites. Yeah. But when we're talking 146 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:46,560 about like nematodes or, you know, that kind of parasite, where there's nothing you could do about 147 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:55,680 it. And it's the worst. Yeah. Yeah. So vermiculite can, so what tarantula ramblings was telling, 148 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:03,200 telling me the other week is that it reduces mold outbreaks within the substrate, which I 149 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:09,760 really want to go and start looking into. I was thinking of doing a side by side experiment, 150 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:16,800 having two empty enclosures, same soil, but one of them having vermiculite in and one of them not. 151 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:27,360 And just topping them up with water and seeing which one, if any, mold up first. Yeah. And just 152 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:35,840 sort of like having a look, having a look at that. I think when we think about substrates and things, 153 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,440 I think that's like a really important thing as well is about think about what works for you, 154 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:46,240 right? Right. And what's available. So peat moss, do you use peat moss in the States? 155 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:54,560 I do believe we do. I think that we do have some peat moss. Me, I'm a big fan of sphagnum moss 156 00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:02,160 for the New Zealand sphagnum moss. And I haven't quite, I don't believe I've used peat moss. 157 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:12,400 So peat moss isn't actually a moss. It is like a soil. Oh, right. We call it peat moss. 158 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:20,240 Okay. I'm just googling it for a second. I think it's actually part of the mix that I use in the 159 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:27,920 jungle mix. I think that there is a little bit of peat moss in the... Yeah. So I know within the UK, 160 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:38,800 they are trying to reduce the use of peat moss due to where it's farmed from. So from the peat 161 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:46,960 oaks and how it's impacting on the natural ecosphere as such in that area. See, I didn't know 162 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:57,040 that. Thank you for importing me. But talk about sphagnum moss. Oh, you say it, Leah. Say it for me. 163 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:07,280 Which one? The sphagnum moss. There we go. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, I'm so tired. But talking about that, 164 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:15,840 it's a really good resource to use. Absolutely. It's one we think about humidity and creating those 165 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:23,840 humid pockets within the substrate. Definitely. And that can be used for within all sorts of inverts. 166 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:31,040 So everything about millipedes and rice pods, burrowing beetles, everything. It's such a good 167 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:40,240 a good way to keep it, keep the soil active, I suppose. Absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I really 168 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:47,040 like sphagnum moss. I feel like it really holds that moisture. Again, I'm all about that, keeping 169 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:55,280 the moisture in. And it also kind of makes the enclosure like if you put it in just on its own, 170 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:04,800 it actually looks really great. It looks very natural. It does. Do you get colored? Do you get 171 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:13,120 dyed moss where you are? Or is it natural? I think most of it is very natural. We do get this green, 172 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:21,600 like grassy type moss stuff that is really nice, but it's green. So I would assume that's probably 173 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:28,800 the natural color of it. But as far as dyed stuff, I haven't seen any dyed stuff. And I'm not sure 174 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:36,320 that would be super beneficial anyhow. No, I know that some rep, so out of the invert world, 175 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:43,600 but more in the reptile world, they do have lots of like dyed moss for the enclosures and things. 176 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:50,720 And I've heard stories of how the dyed moss, if the animals eat it, they can take on the color, 177 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:57,760 not inverts, but reptiles. Like reptiles, yeah. Because of the dyes in it. But that's a really 178 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:04,240 good way to keep that moisture level up for sure. Absolutely. It's like mixing that in there. 179 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:12,880 What about any of your arid tarantulas? Do you reckon it's all right to keep your arid tarantulas 180 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:20,880 on sand, let's say? Yes, like kind of a mixture of the whatever substrate you use, so like the 181 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,880 cocoa fiber. And then if you put a little sand in there, I think that's okay too. 182 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:31,040 Yeah. You know, just keep a nice light mixture for it. It's about actually having a mix, isn't it? 183 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:41,280 I don't think there, if we were to think about like the six-eyed sand spider, yes, that's that sand. 184 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:48,640 And yeah, you definitely want, sorry, I apologize. No, no, no, no, no. You definitely want sand to 185 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:56,400 be the primary substrate for that, for that invert for sure. Like any invert that is, you know, from 186 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:03,120 a desert or like uses the sand for some purpose, then you're definitely going to want that sand. 187 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:15,840 But for most tarantulas, and in my experience, the sand is not great all on its own for tarantulas. 188 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:21,440 Because it can actually be really abrasive to their arms and their legs and their bodies, 189 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,320 basically, their exoskeletons. So, mixing it in is always good. 190 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:36,400 And if we say, for instance, we look at the Afonopalma calcodes, they don't nest in a 191 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:44,240 sand dune as such. I know they come from a very arid space, but you'll find their burrows in the 192 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:51,280 root systems of plants and trees, where there's a bit more substance and it's not sand. 193 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:58,960 When we're thinking about that. But if you were to be, so if you were to be keeping 194 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:08,240 your inverts on a, let's say, arid substrate, what's your go-to, Lea? 195 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:15,360 Yeah. For an arid substrate, definitely, see again, I would go with the jungle mix, 196 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:24,960 but I would definitely mix a little bit of sand in that. And probably some, we have like little 197 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:31,120 wood chip type things, or like, I believe, what are they called, cypress mulch. If you take a 198 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:36,560 little bit of the cypress mulch and put that in the substrate, that also makes for a really nice, 199 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:43,840 like arid kind of feeling substrate. And it works really well for the tarantulas, because again, 200 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:50,640 it adds that texture, and then it's not only like the sand and the substrate, if that makes sense. 201 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,280 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that makes total sense. And I think it's about having those little bits 202 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:03,440 of detritus in there and stuff, especially for animals that are creating a den and doing stuff. 203 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:10,080 I suppose if we were to be thinking about, let's say, let's think about mantis. Substrates are 204 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:17,760 not really important for them, is it? I think it can be, but no, not really. They like to hang out 205 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:27,440 on leaves and branches and whatnot. Absolutely. I think if I was to be thinking about substrate 206 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:33,600 within my enclosures for my mantis, even though mine's like free roaming somewhere in the flat, 207 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,720 I'm not sure where he is at the moment, but he's definitely around somewhere. 208 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,720 That's great. Yeah, every now and again, I'll be looking for him, and I'll just be like, where is he? 209 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:50,560 And it clicks, and he'll be where the, I keep all my live food, and he'll be like on the side of the 210 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:57,200 container, I'm like, okay, so you're hungry, right? That's all about. I find keeping substrate in with 211 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:05,280 my mantis really important. So I put a good inch or so at the bottom, cover it with moss, and it 212 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:13,120 helps that humidity again. I think one of the really good things about, one of the really 213 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,920 important things, not one of the good things, one of the really important things about substrate 214 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:22,960 is that it holds that humidity. Even if we have a dry and arid, or what we would say 215 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:30,560 from the Afonopelma family, they come from quite an arid climate, but they will burrow, 216 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,760 and they're burrowing because they're trying to find that moisture, 217 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:44,560 they're trying to regulate and find that spot. Not so much with the Balfoury, 218 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:54,640 the Socrata Island Blue Baboon Trantula, but within their webcastle, let's say if we're 219 00:26:54,640 --> 00:27:02,080 keeping a communal one, they once again, they do have like this little pockets of humidity in there 220 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:13,360 as well. So, but I think what I find sometimes is when you maybe, when you maybe first think about 221 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:20,560 an arid species who suddenly think like no moisture, sand, dry, well actually, 222 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:29,440 yeah Sahara Desert, or Death Valley, you know what the word is. Yeah, like it will survive there. 223 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:35,760 Well actually, I think we really need to think about adding that humidity because there are 224 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:42,800 spikes in areas. Definitely. You get humidity in the morning, don't you with the morning dew and 225 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:49,840 stuff. Certainly, like this the southeast region of the United States is actually kind of kind of 226 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:56,800 crazy because it goes from one extreme to another throughout the day cycle. So, 227 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:03,920 you know, like you were saying with Death Valley, it can get up to 112 or so degrees 228 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:10,880 in the daytime in the summer, and then it'll drop down to 40, 50 in the evenings in the nighttime. 229 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:17,680 So, yeah, definitely there is moisture in these areas, and it does, you know, I agree with you 230 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:24,880 that the tarantulas will burrow and they're seeking out that moisture. They're seeking out like a 231 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:31,040 cooler spot because, you know, you and I both know we don't want our tarantulas in direct sunlight 232 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:37,760 because it really, it fries them, you know. So, when they burrow, that's essentially what they're 233 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:44,480 doing is they're absolutely searching for that moisture. So, yeah, I do think, I think even 234 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:50,800 for mantises, like you said, substrate can be very, very important for those humidity levels. 235 00:28:51,920 --> 00:29:00,080 Like the orchid mantis is a tropical species. They're from Malaysia, or yeah, they're from Malaysia. 236 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:09,440 So, they need a lot of humidity. They need about 70 to 80 percent humidity. So, that's, 237 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,920 and that's how you achieve it is through your substrate. So, I think it's really important to 238 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:21,280 talk about the, you know, the best methods of mixing your substrate and what to use for that. So, 239 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:28,800 that's good. Do you have like a, if you were to mix up your substrate, do you have a best method? 240 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,680 You may have just walked into that by saying that. I did, didn't I? 241 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,680 If you have anything like a certain recipe or anything that you use? 242 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,960 Somewhat. I mean, I kind of go by what the tarantula, what the invert needs. So, if, like I said, 243 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:51,920 if it's one of those high humidity, you know, very moisture dependent species, then I'm going to use 244 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:59,600 a little more of my, the jungle mix than I would cocoa fiber or sand or anything like that. So, 245 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:06,640 I would use a lot more of that and then probably a bit of cocoa fiber because it does help to 246 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:13,840 keep that moisture in there. So, I would mix that pretty good. Maybe about like about a 70-30 mix. 247 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:20,320 Right, yeah. Yeah. But if we're talking about like, you know, the monocentropus belflory, 248 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:28,240 then it would probably just be more of a, like a 40-60 mix. 249 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:35,360 Yeah. So, you'd be going a bit more dry on that. I would definitely agree with you on that. 250 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:43,600 The belflory communal that I got recently, I was trying to look into that and I was thinking about 251 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:52,800 getting the arid earth kit from ZoomEd. I think it's ZoomEd that do that where you can effectively 252 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:59,200 make tunnels and stuff. Awesome. Excavator clay, that's what I was looking for. That's it. Yes. 253 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,400 I know Richard uses that and Petco and yeah. Yeah. They've all sort of like had a bash at that, 254 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:13,520 haven't they? Yeah. And then over here, in the UK, we were, I was discussing it with some of the other 255 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:22,240 keepers and I was recommended the Arcadia arid earth, which is a really nice substrate. However, 256 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,960 when it arrived, it was quite moist, which I thought was quite surprising. Things that was meant to 257 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,960 be arid earth. Yeah, that's a good thing. So, with that as well, I just added some more sand to it. 258 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:41,760 And as you say, it's about, I think you learn as you go along, don't you? Yes. What's going to work 259 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:49,760 for those specific species? Not everything's going to work. You can't just have one. You can just 260 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:59,920 have one. Yeah. You can. Yeah. Your invert, no matter what it is, might just survive and not 261 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:08,000 thrive though. Right. They might just do. Right. It would be like that bare minimum, you know. Yeah. 262 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:15,920 It would be going back to keeping them on vermiculite or just watered by our core or just pure sand. 263 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,840 I can't remember which video it was and I wouldn't name and shame anyway, but 264 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:31,360 no worries. I remember seeing an old one where, you know, keeping a praki palma humari on white sand. 265 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:39,200 Oh, wow. Looks lovely. Looks absolutely stunning. Sure. It was awesome. But that spider is not loving life. 266 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:47,840 No. They need that opportunity to even be able to burrow and with sand, it's too heavy. Their burrows 267 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:55,920 cave in for them. It's just not so great. No. No. But it might work if you're thinking about having 268 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:03,120 something like a Desert Heri Scorpion or a June Scorpion, that kind of thing. But even then, 269 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,400 you're going to want to mix a little bit of cocoa core in when you're doing that. 270 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:16,640 So yeah, have you got anything, your last rehouse? What have you been doing? 271 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:25,600 Because it's sort of on the substrate talk. Okay. Actually, yeah, I just rehoused in my upcoming, 272 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:32,000 my next video that I'll be releasing on my channel will be a Seriopagus Levitum. So the 273 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:40,160 Cobalt Blue Tarantula. And so the substrate that I used, you know, this is a tarantula that comes 274 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:46,720 from Thailand, Myanmar. So that whole region is very, very moist. It's a tropical region, 275 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:56,560 although they do have a couple of arid plateau areas. So for mine, I used that jungle mix, 276 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:04,560 like I said, and then I basically mixed in a little bit of wood chips and whatnot, 277 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:11,440 just to add that texture. But as far as the whole enclosure goes, that's pretty much all I did. 278 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:18,320 I made nice, nice deep substrate and a little beginner burrow and she got in there good. 279 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,120 Actually, this video is going to be really funny. I think you'll like it. 280 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:28,720 Good, really? Okay. Well, it better be funny because you've said it's pretty funny. So I'm 281 00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:35,760 going to be a while, took me a while to get her into a new enclosure because she was she well, 282 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:42,960 she was very spicy when she finally came out. But she hid so well from me, I had to actually 283 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:52,720 dig her out. It really sucked. And I was nervous. And so yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I, I've just so 284 00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:59,280 well, you said something actually quite poignant. Oh, that I wanted to touch upon actually is you 285 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:08,000 said about adding depth. So myself, I have just rehoused three for sorio tracholas. Oh yeah. 286 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:18,960 So I can crack in two of them. I've rehoused and sorry, I'm common names today. I'm generally 287 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:28,400 common names anyway. That's the smokey or tiger. Yeah. Yeah. And the Java fury. Oh, that's going 288 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:38,800 to bug me. It was something she had to anyway, it'll come to me. And for them, I actually use quite 289 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:46,640 a wet mix. Absolutely. Not not sopping wet, but you know, wet down one like a damp mix and then 290 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:54,240 wet down one corner. But it goes back to the conversation we were when we were talking about 291 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:59,520 when you would go to a pet shop and you would see that spider, or maybe like a half inch of substrate 292 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:10,000 things. And when we think about keeping keeping our inverts, whether they are tarantulas, isopods, 293 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:19,120 things that maybe we would class as terrestrial. They actually bless you. 294 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,400 For those listening, that was Leah's lovely partner having a seat. That was my partner. 295 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:35,600 So, but actually even things that are terrestrial, though they may not be obligated borrowers, 296 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:43,680 and that can go for, you know, it's not just about tarantulas. To give them the option to do 297 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:48,720 that, you'll actually find the natural behavior is they will borrow at some point, somewhere, 298 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:54,720 and doing that. And Petco actually did a really good video of one of his 299 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,040 tarantulas where he made like the six foot container. If you've seen that one where he makes 300 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:07,120 an enclosure really deep for one of his fissorial tarantulas, it may not be six foot, 301 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:13,280 it might be about four and a half foot, five foot, and it borrowed all the way down to the bottom. 302 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:19,200 Oh my goodness. And when we think about it, we don't have to do that for our tarantulas. So 303 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,480 people that are listening, please do not go out. Well, if you can, if you want. 304 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:31,680 But I mean, you can, but it's about giving them enough. 305 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:39,280 It's about giving them enough opportunity. And hold on, Leigh. I think the door is just knocked 306 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:47,680 a second. Sorry. Oh, it's Dorothy. Dorothy was at the door. Hello, Dorothy. How are you doing? 307 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:57,600 Hi. Good. How are you guys? Yeah, not too bad. We're just chatting dirt, really. 308 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:06,240 Dirt is substrate and substrate. So different, different. I like dirt. We've got a few jars 309 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:14,480 of dirt, you know. Yeah, this is you. Yeah. It's a hobby, isn't it? What is your go to mix for 310 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:20,240 substrate? Like, what do you like to use? Because we were talking about, you know, cocoa fiber and 311 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:27,760 the vermiculite of olden leaves. Go ahead. I do not like cocoa fiber. It's the old way to easily. 312 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:39,920 It's not my favorite. I tried a homemade mix and it was okay-ish. I mixed, you know, an OMRI 313 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:50,400 certified topsoil with play sand and excavator clay, you know, give it that structure. But it 314 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,280 actually molded really bad one day. Like all of a sudden, one of my Armenian closures was really 315 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:01,840 bad. And I didn't have any more of my mix on hand. So I quickly went on to the Petco and I ordered 316 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:08,320 some reptile soil, actually. And I had never tried it before. But now that I've tried it, I'm like, 317 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:14,960 this is actually kind of amazing. So I think what Dorothy's saying is actually really 318 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:22,960 interesting, though, is that maybe sometimes we try to save a buck. And we make our own mixes 319 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:32,480 and doing things. But sometimes off the shelf stuff. We're just saying about how sometimes we 320 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:38,320 can be like, oh, we're going to make a mix and it's going to be it's cheap. It's going to be affordable. 321 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:46,960 But then sometimes you can just buy something off the shelf and it works. Right. 322 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:57,520 Yeah. Yeah. People listening, Dorothy's nodding. That is one thing that I love about the jungle 323 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:04,240 mixes because I can use only that and it works just as well as if I mixed it in with something else. 324 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:12,240 You know, so. Yeah, we I use spider life. I'm still waiting for them to contact me. So 325 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:15,360 they'll sponsor me. But you know, it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. 326 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,480 It's not going to happen. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. It's 327 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:24,080 going to happen. But you can only hope. I haven't had any issues with spider life. It's great. 328 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:32,720 It's a really good, robust substrate and it's really malleable in a sense as you can let it dry 329 00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:39,200 out and it's perfect for those arid kind of enclosures or it holds moisture really well because 330 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:45,920 it's got loads of bits of biologicals that break down and hold the moisture. So, 331 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,920 so it you know, it's fascinating. And just before you came on, Dorothy, we were talking about 332 00:40:51,920 --> 00:41:03,200 allowing deep substrate for our our our animals. What are your thoughts on that? Are you are a 333 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:11,360 proponent of that or you know? I I feel like it's really important to assess the needs of your 334 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:18,960 specific animal because I have a lot of the same species, but each of them exhibit different 335 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:24,320 behaviors. Like I have multiple psalmopetus hermeneus, right? And a lot of them exhibit 336 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:30,000 different behaviors. And so I think it's really important that if your tarantula is if you've 337 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,280 noticed that your tarantula likes to burrow more, you should definitely give them more substrate. 338 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:38,800 Even if they're technically in a boreal because psalmose like to make a little dirt curtain. And 339 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:44,240 one of mine really likes to make an an opening at the bottom in the corner of the cork bark. 340 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:48,320 And I've noticed that she really likes to burrow down a little bit. So I gave her a little bit of 341 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:54,000 extra substrate. But one of my other ones, she's always up. She's at the top. She doesn't care 342 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,400 about the dirt. She doesn't touch the dirt. Dirt is bad, you know? So I think it's really 343 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,320 important that you assess the needs of your specific animal and watch their behaviors. And 344 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:11,280 like even though you know, I I love that we have the classification of a boreal terrestrial 345 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:18,000 fossorial. But I feel like there are more like subcategories than that. Yeah. Like, yeah, I agree. 346 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,120 I feel like it's just it's really important to know, you know, your animal. And if you notice 347 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,200 something that you need to change in there, definitely, you know, make the changes, make it 348 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,560 more comfortable for them so that, you know, your animal is comfortable, it'll make you more 349 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,680 comfortable. And the proper enclosure will prevent a lot of problems, accidents, escapes, 350 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,880 all that other good stuff. So it's really important that you know your animal. 351 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:45,360 It also prevents a lot of that defensive behavior we see as well. So by giving them that opportunity 352 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:54,640 to burrow, to escape in a good substrate that holds, that holds its shape, you're gonna have a more happy 353 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:02,720 tarantula if we're talking about tarantulas. Absolutely. It's the same for all other inverts 354 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:12,240 as well. I think sometimes you'll have people or people will have inverts, sorry. And they may not 355 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:19,280 be that the expensive one, the 300 pound one and things. And so they may not get the same sort of 356 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,840 level as care and things. But I think it's really important to do that for all of them, 357 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:31,200 to give them all that opportunity to thrive really within it. What are your thoughts, Dorothy, on 358 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:39,120 bioactive? I personally am a big fan of bioactive, but I wish that I had the patience 359 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:45,920 and the time and the energy and the effort to do it for all of my spiders. Some of them are bioactive, 360 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:51,040 some of them are not. The bioactive enclosure is definitely like I don't really have a lot of 361 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,840 problems with mold or anything else in those enclosures specifically. I mean, you don't really 362 00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:01,920 have a lot of mold problems. But once I switched over some of my spiders to bioactive, I realized 363 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,720 that it was a lot less maintenance for me. And although it might be more work in the beginning, 364 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:13,280 I feel like it creates a more productive environment for them to not just survive but 365 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,080 thrive. So I'm definitely a fan of bioactive. But if someone wants to come do it, I will come 366 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:30,240 pay you to do it. I will get my plane ticket and I will come on over. But I think it's definitely, 367 00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:35,120 like you said, there is a lot of work at the beginning. But I think the majority of the work 368 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,240 is gaining an understanding of how it works. Once you've gained that understanding of how it 369 00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:49,040 works, it's actually quite easy, especially if you have your pathos growing, ready to go in and all 370 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:55,760 the equipment there ready to go. But is the juice worth the squeeze at the beginning? And about 371 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:01,280 getting that understanding, you're not going to have a bioactive with cocoa fiber. It needs to be 372 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:07,360 natural. You can mix cocoa fiber into it. And I have seen bioactives with that in it. 373 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,640 But you're really going to have to start thinking about that naturalistic side of things and what 374 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:20,240 animals can go within the soils to help it go. Brian talked about some brilliant stuff on last 375 00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:27,920 week's podcast. When he was talking about having composted worms and the layers and the different 376 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:36,160 aspects, I might look into doing one enclosure with composting worms in and see how that 377 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:44,640 goes. I think it would be a really good food source, especially for fissorial tarantulas. 378 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:54,800 There's a big argument at the moment around the, I know we shouldn't dig out our fissorial tarantulas. 379 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,880 You haven't seen them for a long time, though there becomes a point as a keeper where you're 380 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:04,720 like, I really should. Tom Moran actually talks about the only time he's ever dropped 381 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:14,320 an injury cricket down a tunnel was when he saw that effectively his tarantula was starving, 382 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,920 but not coming up. But in the wild, they probably wouldn't be starving because they would be eating 383 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:26,400 the animals that are living in the soil that are coming out into their tunnels and stuff. 384 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:32,400 So yeah, I think it would be a really interesting thing. However, you're going to want to make sure 385 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:39,760 that the composting worms don't take over. So I have kind of a question as far as that goes, 386 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:48,240 with the bioactive enclosures, would it be smarter maybe to set up an enclosure maybe 387 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:54,240 like one or two weeks before you actually put your invert into it? Absolutely. Is that like the 388 00:46:54,240 --> 00:47:05,840 recommended? Yeah, what I tend to do is I'll have it set up for a month. Okay. Or if not, 389 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:12,400 I'll have it really planned out about what I'm going to do. Nice. Okay. The internet only see 390 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:18,320 a very small part of what I do. So the videos I put on, I might make a quick or it has to be a 391 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:27,920 rehouse because I had a feather leg that was on cocoa fiber and the s-calciton. And I just wanted 392 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:34,080 to get it into something a bit more natural. I don't know about you, Dorothy. Do you leave it 393 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:39,600 for a couple of weeks before putting something in there? What do you do? Yeah, I like to set it up 394 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:45,920 and let it hang out for a little bit because obviously, a lot of my tarantulas have come to me 395 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:51,520 in ways that aren't exactly traditional. Like a lot of mine were, people weren't comfortable taking 396 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:57,520 care of them. So some of mine have been kind of last minute. But if you know your tarantula is 397 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:02,320 coming, you can definitely set it up beforehand especially. And when you're rehousing, obviously, 398 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:09,040 a rehouse is probably going to come. Those ones are easier to predict. So I mean, if you see, 399 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:14,560 you're like, oh, my next rehouse is coming up. And if you keep track of the mulch and stuff, 400 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:19,120 like I use an app, you can kind of guess to me. I mean, obviously, it's not an exact science because 401 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,200 you can never really guess when they're going to mulch. But you can definitely have things set up 402 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,400 and ready to go. And especially with the bioactive, I think it's really important to make sure that 403 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:33,920 it's well established because you don't want to be reaching in there and fixing the plant because, 404 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:39,040 you know, it's, you know, you don't want to stick your hands in there with the spider in there. 405 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:49,040 I mean, you can. I mean, I have to, but I would recommend it. Yeah, it's not recommended. You can. 406 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:56,400 Yeah. How well you know your tarantula. That's like you said, Dorothy, I agree with you on that. 407 00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:02,880 Like how well do you know your spider? And, you know, over time, you kind of are able to observe 408 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:08,400 those predictable behaviors or, you know, whatever inverted is, because I do also have some assassin 409 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:14,880 bugs and they are also venomous. I was so close in getting some today. Oh, they're amazing. And I didn't. 410 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:22,320 But anyway. But also another tip, Leah, just, yeah, top topic when you're asking about setting 411 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,480 it up, the something that I found really useful, and it's something so obvious, 412 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:33,360 it's going to sound, oh, that's obvious. And that why are you saying that? I have an alarm that goes 413 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:40,160 off every Friday when I get home from work that tells me to water my plants. So lots of people 414 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:47,600 fail at growing bioactive enclosures with plants and because they forget to water the plants, 415 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:54,000 they're concentrating on maybe the inverts are in there, and they're not doing it. And you have to be, 416 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,200 it's just sort of staying on top of it. And after I start, because I had lost a couple of 417 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:05,680 those enclosures that I was trying to set up, or they've set up and the plants die in it. 418 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:11,520 It's like, oh, frustrating. You've spent money on those plants that you're putting in and you 419 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:16,240 think, oh, well, I can keep a spider alive or a praying mantis, but I can't keep a plant alive. 420 00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:21,200 What's that about? Right. But you're so focused on looking after the creature that's in there, 421 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,680 you're not thinking about the bigger thing. So just to have that little reminder to be like, 422 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:32,960 hey, you need to water your plants. So it goes off and I go around and water it. And it's not on the 423 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:39,920 same day, because I feed all of my animals on a Saturday or Sunday. Okay. The plant waterings on 424 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,160 a Friday, just so it's different. So it's a different task, a different thing to focus on. 425 00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:50,880 And you know that it's done it. And since doing that, I've been a lot more successful in keeping 426 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:57,600 them alive. Wonderful. But also some of them, they like humidity. So maybe if for people that are 427 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:05,600 starting off doing it, just use a Pothos, because they're hardy, they're generally good. I have 428 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:13,040 killed one in an enclosure, but I believe. Yeah, I know, right, Dorothy? So that's impressive. 429 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:20,160 The Mantis Garden suggested Ivy to me. Is that also another plant that is hardy and 430 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:29,280 Ivy? Absolutely. Yeah, Ivy is a good, hardy one, especially if you want like a creeper. 431 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:36,560 If you've got something going up the cork bark or things like that. And there's other creeper plants 432 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:42,400 that are really good as well, which will be good. I'll send you a list of some ones that I found. 433 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:48,720 I would love that. Absolutely. Yeah. What about you, Dorothy? Do you have like a go-to plant for 434 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:56,080 your bioactive enclosures? I really like Pothos, but I also really like Tritoscantia. 435 00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:01,600 They're kind of like a creeping plant, you know, definitely for the bottom. But they grow really 436 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:09,920 well, especially the pistachio white Tritoscantia. It just grows like mad and it's easy to just trim, 437 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:15,360 propagate, put some more in there, you know, and I like being able to reproduce from my own plant, 438 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,440 because one thing that I have to be really careful about, like when you're getting plants for a 439 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:24,960 bioactive enclosure is to make sure, you know, there's no pesticides or, you know, like the soil, 440 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,800 like where you're sourcing your plants from. That's kind of like what I like to do with my 441 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,520 feeders. Like I'll get one thing of feeders and then I've just taken them and then I've made them 442 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:40,560 reproduce so that I have my own, you know, my own thing going on so that I don't have to, oh, what's 443 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:46,960 the pesticide? Like how is this being taken care of? Like, you know, are they using a myticide or 444 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,480 anything else? You know, there's a lot of things that you have to be mindful about when you are 445 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,600 choosing plants for a bioactive enclosure. So that's why I like things that I can propagate myself 446 00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:02,480 from my own plants and to like just to reproduce on my own instead of relying on outside sources, 447 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:07,200 which I mean, it's really great to, you know, like I know that there are a lot of people who have 448 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:12,480 like plants that are safe, like that are available. I know the bio dude used to have plants. I don't 449 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:19,040 know if he still does, but I think Josh's Frogs also has plants. Yeah, Josh's Frogs definitely does. 450 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:26,320 Yeah, still doing that. And just very quickly, before we get to the end of the podcast is, 451 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:34,640 so you talk, you touched on like pest pesticides and different sorts of things. So it's, it's very 452 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:42,320 tempting to just go out into the back garden and dig up soil to use within your enclosures. 453 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:50,320 Now, I would strongly advise anyone that's listening to this to do that, unless you are going 454 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:57,040 deep into the wilderness to dig it up, to avoid pesticides, but then also we do have the problem 455 00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:02,800 with nematodes when we're thinking about in the tarantula hobby. So you are better off getting it 456 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:12,560 from a tarantula substrate maker or someone within the pet world. However, you can still get bad 457 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:18,080 substrate. So it's just something to be very mindful of when we are thinking about that. 458 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:25,040 And when that sort of goes on to the idea as well of collecting moss and sticks and different things, 459 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:35,920 bark and things from, from the wild, lots of people boil it. Do you boil it or cook it in the oven? 460 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:41,520 Cook it in the oven. Yeah. 200 degrees Fahrenheit, 20 minutes. Yeah, boil it and bake it. Yeah, 461 00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:46,400 boil it and bake it. It's good, you know, you've got to make sure. Or freeze, I'll freeze things 462 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:52,480 like leaves, like if I get like a flitter and stuff, I freeze it and then I'll bake it so that, you 463 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:58,800 know, I've freeze everything that's on it and then I fry anything that's left. Oh, I thought I was 464 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:05,200 losing the plot the other year. I collected all the leaves, stuck them all in the freezer, boiled 465 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:12,000 them and then baked them just to be sure, you know, and it was lovely. But it's definitely 466 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,560 a process, but also something we do need to be aware of as well as pollution when doing that. So 467 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,960 if you're going to be collecting that kind of thing for your bioactive substrate, for your soil, 468 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:25,680 for your enclosures, it's about doing it as far away from the road as you possibly can as well. 469 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:32,320 So especially when we're collecting leaf litter and things because it's just going to be better. 470 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:40,800 I usually only do that for my rescues. I call them my rescues because they're native species to 471 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:46,560 where I live, obviously, but, you know, I'll have friends and relatives who will be like, 472 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:52,000 hey, I've got this black widow. I don't know what to do with it. Will you come get it? So usually, 473 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:58,800 I'll use like substrate from, you know, here, obviously, or outside and whatnot. I only use 474 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:06,080 them for my native species. So I'm not. Well, they've kind of been out there. They've been outside, 475 00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:13,760 haven't they? Yeah, there is. Like this girl. Sorry, this is my little or weaver. 476 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:22,080 Okay. Yeah, she's just a little juvenile, but I rescued her from a friend's car. And so, you know, 477 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:28,560 I actually used a couple of sticks from outside in her enclosure. That way she has anchor points 478 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:37,920 and stuff. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, brilliant. So sorry. We, we, no, no, no, that was, I've never 479 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:43,600 really thought about that. We don't really, we don't really have lots of really cool spiders. 480 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:50,000 Well, we have got cool spiders. You do. You have all the spiders. Yeah. But I just go out and be 481 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:56,320 like, oh, I'm going to rescue it. I think maybe we're just like really, we're really used to it 482 00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:01,120 in the UK as well. Like our spiders look quite similar. We're not all. Okay. Some of them. 483 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:11,440 So we're coming to the end and it is the shameless plug section of Inverted Cast. We do like a 484 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:17,680 shameless plug. Usually it's a time where the hosts get to say about their social medias and 485 00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,800 different things. And Dorothy, I don't know, would you like to shamelessly plug yourself? 486 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:28,800 Sure. Yeah. Well, you can find me on Instagram, 487 00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,760 I'm also on the TikTok, as the kids say, you know, 488 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:44,960 and my username on TikTok is the Salmo Queen. So if you want to see any spider or other invert 489 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:52,240 content, I really bit slack on posting, but I recently rescued a seawater grossa outside of 490 00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,880 False Widow and she is so cute. So I need to make a post about her. So if you want to see more about 491 00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:03,360 her, you're going to have to check out my social media. I also make enclosures. So if anyone wants 492 00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:09,680 a custom enclosure, they're anywhere from $35 to $45. I try to not charge a lot. I use USPS Flat 493 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:15,040 Rate Chipping. They're super easy. I have assembly videos on my TikTok and on my Instagram if you 494 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:23,360 want to see. They're really affordable way to have a nice enclosure and I was really picky. I'm a DIY 495 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:28,320 queen. So if you want an enclosure, let me know. Hit me up on Instagram, TikTok, anything. 496 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:32,240 Instagram again? 497 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:44,800 Bougi Becna. Can you spell my full list? Yeah, B-O-U-J-E-E-V-E-C-N-A. So you can find me on Instagram 498 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:49,200 and then TikTok is the sound low queen. So yeah, that's our shameless plug and also 499 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,000 bringing it back because I love Amy from Fang Hub by Trance Loves from Fang Hub. 500 00:58:54,720 --> 00:59:01,840 Yes. Dorothy, I do love your enclosures. I gotta say, I think they're spot on. 501 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,040 Have you got an Etsy shop as well yet? 502 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:12,640 No, I do not. I just do it. I have a Google Doc that people fill out. It's just me 503 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:17,440 making these enclosures for fun. But Etsy is not a bad idea. 504 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:23,360 Well, that's actually really nice that you make it custom as well, which I think is really important 505 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:28,240 to people's taste. Leah, have you got a shameless plug for today? 506 00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:37,680 Absolutely. I've got Tarantula on YouTube, Tarantula on TikTok, Instagram. I have a 507 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:45,280 re-housing video coming up of a very spicy cereal because Levitum. So stay tuned for that. 508 00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:53,840 And that's about all I've got. And of course, Fang Hub, Tarantulas, Eight Paws, Tarantulas. 509 00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:58,480 I love these guys. They're all really wonderful. I think there's another one. 510 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:05,040 Daenerys' mother of spiders is she's kind of up and coming. She's really, really getting popular. 511 01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,480 So check that one out as well if you're in the US. I'll have to check that out. 512 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:13,440 Yeah. I'll just check it out. I can't get it. I'll just check them out. 513 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:20,960 Absolutely. Cool. And yes, I do have a shameless plug as always. 514 01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,640 We're going to do an unshameless plug. So first of all, if anyone listened to 515 01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:34,640 the Rubber Ducky isopod episode, it has been edited to make it child-friendly. 516 01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:40,960 But at the end, you are going to find a brilliant discount code, which is InverterCast25. 517 01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:46,480 And it goes on for the rest of this month, the rest middle of next month, sorry, 518 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:54,000 where you can get up to 25% off of all isopods on their store in the US. So go check them out. 519 01:00:54,000 --> 01:01:01,520 And you can also get a discount on the Spider Shop in the UK using the discount code Somerset. 520 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,760 That is my discount code and people have been using it and it's brilliant. 521 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:12,960 So for those who didn't go to the Inverter Show today, get over there and go and get yourself 522 01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,320 some spiders because you need them and use discount code Somerset to get a really good 523 01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:22,400 discount on there. And I am on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. I don't know how to use TikTok, 524 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:28,960 but I am on it. And yeah, go over to my YouTube channel and subscribe. And don't forget 525 01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:36,480 for everyone to subscribe to all the presenters on this podcast. It means the world to us to have 526 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:43,920 you guys watching us, listening us. And yeah, thank you all for listening. Oh, there goes Dorothy. 527 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:50,560 Oh, she went. Oh no. She's gone. Thank you all for listening. Thank you, Leah. It was lovely as always. 528 01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:56,160 Yes, you as well. Now, thanks so much. Okay. It was fun. I love talking about dirt.