Hello, anesthesia enthusiasts, and welcome to Style
Points. I'm John Crow. On this episode, we're
talking to my friend and colleague, Dr. Yusuf
Razlan. Let's just jump right in. This was kind
of emotional for me going through all this past
stuff. It brought back a whole lot of memories.
I'm sure when I sent you the questions and you
were reading through it, it probably brought
back a lot of stuff for you, too. yeah so i guess
i know that we've talked about it before but
i it's always good to get perspective from someone
else that was closely involved um because i mean
i obviously know my perspective my family my
wife but um i don't know i don't really have
a lot of opportunities to sit and like talk openly
about other people and kind of their outlook
on it and how they saw how that like kind of
what they felt and their emotions that were happening
through something like that um i don't know it's
kind of selfishly i've just been so worried about
uh myself from that perspective and just like
healing mentally sure i'm pretty much i think
i'm pretty much like i don't know it's a thing
of the past at this point and there's a lot of
lessons i've i took from it and i'm definitely
different from before that versus now but can't
imagine how you wouldn't be i know yeah so i
mean yeah i mean every once in a while there's
like just like residual like just days where
i i don't know if i'm particularly thinking about
it but like it's kind of hard to describe it
you just uh i guess well we can we can pick up
i can i can yeah start going over some of this
stuff sure actually start you know no yeah it's
good now i'm warmed up yeah good Today's episode
is particularly meaningful for me as I have the
privilege of sitting down with Dr. Yusuf Razlan,
who's a pediatric anesthesiologist at Cincinnati
Children's Hospital. Yusuf isn't just a former
resident of mine, he's my friend and somebody
whose journey changed my life too. In March of
2022, Yusuf experienced a sudden cardiac arrest
while playing basketball and was admitted to
UC Hospital. Yusuf, I'm really honored to have
you here. It means a lot. I'm happy to be here.
So let's back up quite a bit. Sure. You were
my resident. Halfway into residency, I found
out that you had a cardiac condition that I didn't
really know that much about. You were born with
transposition of the great vessels. Tell me about
that. Yeah. So before that, I'll even go back
even further. Excellent. When I was a fourth
year medical student, I always bring this story
up because John Crow had a bigger part in my
coming to this residency program than he knows.
Because I did a, what do they call it when you
come back? Like a second look. Like a second
look. Because at the time I wasn't able to rotate.
It was before COVID, so I could still do a rotation
and like, I don't know, do those things. But
I did a second look because I liked the program
in my interview. I was with a resident that day,
and it was John's first year as an attending.
Oh, wow. And he was super nice to me, and he
was really nice to Zach Sazanski, who was the
resident that he was working with at the time.
And it was just good vibes. So, yeah, I don't
even remember your question. You were born with
transpositions from the great vessels. What was
that like for you growing up? How did that affect
your life? Yeah. So growing up, I was born with
L -transposition. And I won't go into the details
of that. But basically, I was born in congestive
heart failure. And they typically try to wait
to repair these procedures or to repair these
conditions when there's like a survivable shunt.
So I had a VSD at the time. So I was mixing appropriately
from an oxygenation standpoint. So they let me
grow for about 18 months. And they were continuously
medically optimizing me. until I got to the point
where I was on a really high digoxin load and
I was on Lasix as an 18 month old baby. And then
they, my parents and the doctors decided it was
time to have a corrective surgery. I had a ascending
Rostelli procedure where basically they, my right
side of the heart functions as my left and vice
versa. So yeah, growing up, I Went to the cardiologist
every six months, had a ton of imaging done all
the time just to make sure that my gradients
were good between my my neo valves and my and
my ventricles weren't getting overly thickened
and making sure that I wasn't having any shunting
in any inappropriate direction, making sure I
didn't have any leaks or anything like that.
And then when I was 14, I had a conduit. So when
I was a baby, I had a conduit placed. an rv to
pa conduit place that became really stenosis
when i was 14 i got um i got that conduit replaced
uh and i did it back at the original institution
that did my surgery back in boston i did it at
boston children's um and then uh yeah that bought
me another i don't know that was 2007 all the
way till 2019. And then I started getting stenosis
again, but this time they've come along, they
came a long way with like catheterization procedures
and stuff like that had, uh, had a stent placed
through that conduit and they placed a valve
to prevent more backflow. And it really, that
actually, that procedure alone changed my, like
totally changed my life. My exercise tolerance
went way up and, uh, things were great. So in
2019, when I had that procedure, I remember I
submitted my rank list for residency. And the
next day I had that procedure. Oh, wow. Yeah.
And then I matched. And then I did two and a
half years of residency. And then, yeah, like
John said, I never had any sort of conduction
issues. I always had some ectopic beats. And
I would go into arrhythmias that was noted on,
like, I would wear heart monitors sometimes within
those six -month appointments. But I never really
had anything that needed to be treated. I'm one
of very few people that have my procedure with
the specific correction. So for lack of a better
term, I'm kind of a guinea pig that's like walking
around. And I know there's me and some other
person out there that have very similar trajectories.
Weren't you one of the first people to have that
type of repair? It's a Japanese repair. So the
Japanese came up with this specific repair for
my... congenital issue um and i was one of the
first few people in this country to actually
have it done for my l transposition that i have
uh so yeah i um like i said i'm kind of like
a walking guinea pig with this and um never had
any conduction abnormalities or anything like
that other than the occasional ectopic beats,
maybe a couple of runs of some ventricular arrhythmias
that I could feel and I would know that, okay,
maybe I should take it easy. Nothing that really
prompted any of my cardiologists to really pursue.
They always brought up the idea of maybe getting
a pacemaker and a defibrillator at some point,
but I never really expressed the symptoms that
concern them. For people who don't know Yusuf
that might be listening, Yusuf? for all intents
and purposes, looks like a normal, maybe above
average in terms of the looks department guy
that you wouldn't ever suspect has anything like
this going on. He's well -developed, plenty of
muscle mass. He plays sports, right? It's sort
of remarkable. And when I found out that you
had that very serious heart condition sometime
during residency, I was really pretty surprised.
And you just sort of seem to shrug it off when
you talk about it. Try not to let it define me.
I know it sounds kind of cliche, but I don't
know. I've, I've, there have been situations
in my life where it has been a halting point.
Like for example, like when I was in middle school,
I couldn't play basketball because like the basketball
team, the workouts required, I couldn't, basically
anytime I just can't keep up. So from a cardiovascular
standpoint, I'm a little bit more limited in
terms of endurance. So anytime that really comes
up, but honestly, my parents and my family has
done such a good job of like helping me pivot
from those situations. And honestly, that's what
I feel like. That's why I'm here. Like it's directed
me to the friend groups that I have. And it's
directed me to like being surrounded by people
that like have boasted me up from an academic
standpoint. So everything happens for a reason.
And this condition hasn't really defined me.
It hadn't defined me until. The last two or three
years, it actually and when I say it defines
me now, I don't mean it negatively. I mean, it's
just like a I don't know. It was kind of like
a reality check of like you have this and you
have to respect it a lot more than I was previously.
So, yeah, I appreciate the compliment. So you
grew up with a medical parent. Is that right?
Yeah. My dad is a cardiac anesthesiologist. Do
you think that that made a difference in terms
of how you were raised or how he projected the
future for you? Or do you think that that's what
made you trend towards anesthesia? What's your
thought about that? If I told you that my dad
was a first -generation guy from Syria that's
a doctor, used to be a surgeon, came here, changed
his career trajectory, just as a foreign medical
grad, he went through that whole process. And
that's where he ended up. You would think that
I was like pressured or like was expected of
these things. But my parents are wonderful people
and they never expected anything of me. So I
would say that I was influenced by my parents
in the sense that like my dad is an amazing person
and watching him work as hard as he did growing
up, having a sick kid like me during his residency
and still going through and doing what I need,
like get like. Getting through his training while
providing me with what I need as a child with
a congenital anomaly while also raising my two
brothers as well. Seeing him, he was I mean,
sometimes he was late, but he was at all of our
games. He was always home for dinner. We would
visit him at work and he was always like awake
and happy for us to be there. So for all the
reasons that you wouldn't expect, I think that
that is more of their influence as. like my dad
i should say is as a medical parent but never
from an expectation standpoint like they just
motivated me to be my to be the best i could
be and um i don't know i just like succeed my
success comes from just wanting to make them
proud so having met your dad at a couple of different
occasions uh literally the i think worst and
best scenarios yeah both when you were in the
icu sedated after your illness or during your
illness. And then also later at your wedding,
I really got to see him in a couple of different
scenarios. And he, I would agree with you. I
think that he's a remarkable guy. Yeah. Very
inspiring. He's very grounded. He's very grounded.
He's very respectful of his surroundings. Like
he's, so just skip ahead a little bit. When I
was really sick in the ICU, my dad is a very
smart guy. My dad like trained. Did his cardiac
fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic. He's been
working at the VA in Cleveland doing cardiac
anesthesia for like 20 years. And I don't know
what it's like to be a parent as a doctor of
a really sick kid. But I'm sure you have opinions
when things are not particularly going well and
you want to know information. But this is even
something my wife mentioned that he was just
so grounded and so respectful. just left it up
to them to do what's best for me so that just
doesn't surprise me at all when i heard that
from him he's he's a religious guy he's we're
muslim and he's he's very much like a believer
in like god knows god's god's got whatever happens
god's got it so i think that's a big foundation
to that but yeah he's a he's like a wonderful
man yeah for sure having met him i was very impressed
with his demeanor and how he seemed to have everything
totally under control calm the whole time yeah
so i i would echo what you have to say um let's
go to march 27th sure um What do you remember
of that day? Do you remember that day at all?
So the day of my arrest, so I do remember March
27th because the day of my arrest was the 28th.
And the reason I remember that is because it's
my mom's birthday. Oh, wow. Yeah, isn't that
funny? But yeah, March 27th, at the time I was
a CA2, which means I was in my third year of
residency, second to last year of training before
I get my anesthesia certification. I was rotating
at Cincinnati Children's, which is something
that we all do as residents to get our pediatric
numbers. You had, in fact, just asked me for
a letter of recommendation for pediatric anesthesia
fellowship. So, yeah, I it didn't take me long
in my rotation there to know that this is what
I want to do. And, yeah, I had started like going
through the motions of like putting an application
together and getting things organized. But basically.
So are we going into the story of that day and
what I remember? Tell me what happened. Yeah,
so obviously some of it is a little bit gray.
The 27th was just a normal day. I was working.
I was sick. I had a cold. Turns out I actually
had the flu. Didn't really think much of it.
I wasn't super symptomatic or anything like that.
Started feeling better on the 28th. Went to work.
Had a normal day. Very busy day. i only know
that from looking through old texts of like texting
my attending like hey we're going to pick up
it was like one of those ent days where you do
like 10 cases and you're just doing high turnover
i don't remember any of it uh but um i remember
i was feeling better and like john said i'm i'm
a pretty fit guy i like to be active at least
three or four times a week and i at the time
i was playing a lot of basketball at the uc rec
center and um told my wife like i'm feeling better
i've been kind of cagey at home um i think it
was a monday uh and i i decided like i'm just
gonna go try it out i'm gonna go play some basketball
at the rec center so got off work around 4 30
uh called my wife we we facetimed while i was
walking into the gym and then um from what i'm
told i only lasted about five minutes before
i I told one of the undergrads that I didn't
feel good, like something's wrong, like I could
feel something was wrong, whether that be I was
like nauseous or if I was feeling like palpitations
that wouldn't stop. I don't know. I don't know
what I was feeling. But basically, the look on
my face scared this kid to the point where he
like stopped the game, booked it to the lifeguard
station and told them that something was really
wrong. And then basically it was just like a
code red, like everybody's. Coming, I guess technically
it's a code blue, but everyone's, everyone's
running to the court. Everything's stopped. Um,
at that point I'm, I've, I've arrested, I'm,
I'm in a shockable rhythm. I'm, I'm pulseless.
Uh, they do 10 minutes. So lucky for me, it was
like five, five 30 shift change. So there was
a million lifeguards there. All of their staff
and managers were there. So they were, they were
running a, like a full code situation. um called
an ambulance i i needed 10 minutes of chest compressions
and um i was shocked multiple times before they
before ems arrived i think by the time ems arrived
i was um i was my heart was beating again i was
back um but um i don't know anything after that
i don't know what my mental status was like i
don't know what my if i was intubated i don't
know what was going on i just know that they
packed me in the ambulance and took me about
a mile and a half down the road back to work
At UC, I had and it's so crazy now because I
think about I have such a vivid image of it because
I mean, this is where I worked. Right. So I know
exactly what it's like. They put me in the shrew
and they did the assessment, stripped me naked.
I'm sure they I guess they didn't they weren't
sure about my neurologic exam. Cause I don't,
I don't know if I was showing anything or whatever,
but they, they, they put me down and tubed me,
put a breathing tube in. I actually do remember
a little bit about this. You were apparently
fighting a lot at the time and that's why they
intubated you. Okay. It's because you're in a,
of course you wouldn't have any memory of this,
but you were kind of swinging. Yeah. Uh, so one
of my friends in the ER, I, now that you mentioned
it, I do. I do remember that, uh, her, she was
the one who intubated me. One of my good friends,
she like, I texted her like months later. Cause
I'd heard that she was there. Uh, and we worked
as interns together. Like when you're working
in the ER as an intern, you spend a lot of time
with them and you become friends with some of
them. Um, and she was so happy. She, she, uh,
shot me a text and well, I texted her actually
to, to thank her. And then we talked for a while,
but she, she told me what kind of what happened.
That's kind of how I have this, um, image but
uh yeah so from there uh i went to the cardiac
icu um intubated when i was fighting and when
i was coding i i vomited and i aspirated so i
had a pretty significant aspiration pneumonia
um to the point where it wasn't getting better
after uh about four or five days i was i wasn't
oxygenating um I was ventilating, not oxygenating.
And, um, I was requiring like ARDS treatment.
Like I was paralyzed. They, um, had to prone
me multiple, like several days for several days,
just to, just to prevent me from having to go
on ECMO. And then, uh, as soon as like the ECMO
conversation started happening, that's when,
um, I turned a corner about a week after I was
in the ICU. Um, But yeah, I got better and eventually
progressed to like them weaning my sedation and
got X. I remember them weaning my sedation and
talking to me. We can talk a little bit about
like what I remember from all of this, from like
being in the ICU specifically, because that's
a whole story in itself. But yeah, it got to
about on April 5th and then I was discharged.
from directly from the icu on april 7th so which
is my birthday funny enough but i don't remember
that yeah so um one of the toxic things about
being in medicine and being a patient is that
you know exactly what you need to do to get the
hell out of the icu so i knew the i like that's
the icu we rotate in so i know the icu checklist
so i knew that i had to i had to go to the bathroom
i had to um walk around work with physical therapy
occupational therapy basically show that i'm
like no longer sedated my mental status is good
i'm able to function i knew that i needed like
some sort of device placed and it wasn't going
to get done at uc so i knew i needed the life
vest so i i like really like pushed on getting
because i just wanted to get out of there i was
so like people were coming into my room like
all out of love because people were happy i was
doing better but uh all these nurses that i know
are like working i mean it's all in good faith
but it's uncomfortable like to be in a room i
know exactly what room i'm in and i know exactly
the team that's like rounding on me and i was
just ready to go so i got discharged with a life
vest like two days after i got extubated tell
me what a life fest is so a life vest is kind
of a bridge therapy or it's like a destination
therapy therapy for people who need a defibrillator
of some sort so if you're somebody who's not
um a candidate for like an icd or an internal
cardiac defibrillator some people will just wear
a life vest forever um or if you're me and you
know you're going to get a defibrillator but
at a later date because you need to like work
out the kinks for me the kinks were that i needed
to um get it done at children's because of my
anatomy it's very complex and they and they know
better than they do here um so i would i took
this vest home um and i And I had it for about
a day and a half until my dad called me and he
just said, I really don't feel good about you
just like being home with this vest that may
or may not work. So I'm like, what happened was
we coordinated and I just like went and got directly
admitted to children's in the cardiology department.
Right. And I just sat there for two weeks, got
my diagnostic cath, uh, with, um, the electrophysiology
folks there. And then once they've, once they,
they, they tried to like, uh, figure out where
this arrhythmia came from but they really couldn't
figure it out which is kind of like unsettling
for me sure uh but they were able to um reproduce
it and um they were able to shock me out of it
in the cath lab which kind of shows that like
okay that means that like this defibrillator
that i have now um can probably Help me if this
comes up again. Right. More than likely, I should
say. And then it has the pacer function, too.
So. Right. I've had it for about almost three
years now. So, yeah. Wow. Yeah. I will tell you
the story of how I learned what happened to you
is I came in to work that next morning and Mark
Cassidy came up to me and he said, hey, did you
hear Yusuf had a code? And I was like, oh, all
right. It's like, what happened to the patient?
Because I thought he was just telling me that
one of my residents had run a code or that something
had happened, which happens from time to time
to anesthesia residents. They will run codes
from time to time. I had no concept through that
whole conversation that it was actually you who
had coded. And then... And he told me that. I
was like, oh, I guess I'll just check in with
Yusuf later and make sure he's doing all right.
And I didn't think much more of it. And then
as more and more people started saying, hey,
did you hear what happened to Yusuf? I was like,
whoa, what are we talking about here? And then
it wasn't until later that I found out that it
was actually you. I have the email from Friedrich.
that he sent out on 328. I haven't even seen
this email before. Dear colleagues, as most of
you are probably aware by now, a resident member
of our UC anesthesiology family, Dr. Yusuf Razlan,
was admitted to the UC CVICU last evening after
suffering a cardiac arrest while playing basketball
and undergoing ACLS in the out -of -hospital
setting. What's not mentioned, by the way, as
a brief pause in this email is that ACLS in the
out -of -hospital setting has an approximately
10 % survival rate. Back to the email. Doctors
Wojciechowski, Bailey, Joseph, Satoris, and Howershock
have been in contact with Yusuf's parents, and
while they allowed this medical information to
be shared with the department, I would implore
all of you to please respect Yusuf's privacy
in the days ahead. For now, please rest assured
that our friend and colleague is in the best
possible hands, and we will keep you updated
as the situation progresses and as his parents
permit. There were actually a lot of emails that
went out saying, do not go to the CVICU. They
had people that were specifically watching and
trying to make sure to give you the maximum amount
of privacy. And the resident who was up in the
CVICU at the time, that was a tough assignment
because they really... knew more about what was
going on with your care but because of HIPAA
and everything else couldn't share it was it
Connor it was yeah I remember we we talked a
lot about it because I I mean like I I have access
to my notes right like I have my chart so I I
I saw there was a couple days or in a couple
he was on nights a few like a few of the nights
that I was there and he would write like progress
notes because it's his assignment like I'm I'm
their patient so yeah I really empathize with
him on that. There was another email that gave
the program directors permission to provide daily
updates. And they said that somebody will touch
base with a daytime or nighttime intensivist
each day to obtain information for an update
and send out an email to the residents and faculty
to streamline communication. Because for a long
period of time, that is all anybody could talk
about. And when people would say, hey, how are
you doing? Everybody knew that was in reference
to like, how are you processing this? I remember
when the residents started finding out about
this, everybody was still in the operating room.
And there was a concerted effort to get all of
the residents out of all of the ORs. And it was
actually amazing that we were able to relieve
everyone very quickly, thanks to... Our CRNA
colleagues who understood the gravity of the
situation and were very helpful. But we got all
of the residents out and in the resident lounge
and we all just kind of sat there and tried to
be a community together. Yeah. It's great. Yeah.
I mean, you guys made me like posters and I still
have all that stuff. I can't, I can't see. Yeah,
that's it. You just pulled it up on his email.
Yeah. Yes. I still have that. I can't, I can't
like ever get rid of it. I don't think my cats
have kind of torn it up a little bit, but it's
like, I don't know. I still have it. And I still
like see it every, like pretty much every day.
Oh really? Yeah. I just have it like in my room.
Like, uh, it's up, it's behind a bookshelf, but
I can see like, I can see it there. Cause I just
can't get, I can't like get myself to get rid
of it. I don't know why. Yeah. Yeah. I imagine.
So I remember the residents making it. putting
stuff on it i put a little gold star on it yeah
like when it was i know yeah i i remember graduating
from residency and um i don't remember who it
was it might have been houston or he was bragging
about like how he had two gold stars and like
i was like i have one he's like it's not on your
badge you say i know but i i have one it's there
somewhere so yeah wow i i remember being really
torn up about it and the thing that we always
shared a passion for was our basketball teams
having done my residency in oklahoma city i'm
a big okc thunder fan and uh yusuf always has
been a big calves fan right and the way that
i um helped process some of my feelings about
all this is normally every day i wear a okc thunder
themed scrub cap but i purchased and wore a Cleveland
Cavaliers scrub cap for a long time telling myself
that once you got better I'd give you that hat
I still wear it do you really all the time especially
this year because we've been winning so much
yeah I mean it's a great time no I still wear
it I think about you every time it was very sentimental
and I appreciated it wow yeah man I didn't I
still next time I wear it I'll wear it this week
because We're still winning 15 in a row. So I'll
send you a picture. I still wear it every day
for the most part. Well, when our teams inevitably
meet in the finals and you lose by just one game,
it'll be very sad. Yeah, we'll see about that.
That's going to be great. I hope that happens.
Me too, actually. Part of why I'm secondarily
a Cavs fan, although I'm primarily and will always
be a Thunder fan. um is purely because of you
yeah uh totally just being a fan of you made
me more of a calves fan thanks man yeah it's
the same goes for oklahoma city even though they
were always likable they're both small market
teams that you can't help but root for you know
i agree it just speaks to good management anyway
i don't want to turn this into a basketball podcast
although we certainly could yeah we could probably
talk for another hour about that Um, let's talk
about you being in the ICU. Let's go back to
that timeframe and what you remember. Yeah. So
you were mentioning something earlier about how
you were feeling and processing and some of the
emotions that you felt. Tell me more about what
you were remembering. Yeah. So I guess one of
my issues when I was in the ICU was that they
were having a really hard time with sedation.
Right. I started having some like, uh, propofol
i think it was like resembling resemblance of
propofol infusion syndrome so p started turning
green um like from like my heart started getting
a little sad um so then they started to have
to switch to like other things like more like
opioid focused and like um like benzos and ketamine
and i just um My dreams when I was out, like
I thought I thought I was dead. Like I like I
had the conscious thought of like this. Like
I was so comfortable, like I was never uncomfortable.
I was very relaxed. But but my dreams were so
weird that I just was convinced like I must something's
something happened. Something's like I had the
conscious thought of like, this is weird. Like
I don't feel anything, but I'm like making thoughts
and I'm. Yeah, exactly. It's weird. But it wasn't
until they started like weaning some sedation
once I started getting a little bit better just
to like assess my neuro status that I can almost
mostly I can I can mostly compare it to like
being underwater. Really? Yeah. So like I'm open.
I'm trying to open my I can open my eyes a little
bit, but it's just like as if you're opening
your eyes underwater because they're putting
like stuff in your eyes to keep sure to keep
them moist and prevent you from getting like
a. like a corneal abrasion or like, uh, I don't
know. I'm trying to think of like opto terms,
but, um, like dryness and stuff like that. Um,
and then, uh, just like the muffled hearing and
like familiar voices, like my mom and my wife
talking to me and Suzanne, I remember hearing
Suzanne's voice and I was just like, what, this
is just a weird dream. Like, but I'm comfortable
because I know these voices and these are like,
Like my mom and my wife, like those are my comfort
voices. You know what I mean? And then it was
that day, like April 4th, the day before I got
extubated, I was still too weak because I was
paralyzed for a while. Right. But they were able
to wean my sedation. I didn't pass my RISB score,
so they couldn't get the tube out. But I was
able to like communicate and like say like to
yes, no questions. I was trying to talk through
my tube. Couldn't. I was too weak to write. But
I kind of had like a grasp, like I'm in a hospital.
I'm surrounding like my brothers are in this
room. Like, where the hell am I in Atlanta? Like,
where am I? My brother, he was training in Atlanta
at the time. And then my brother who lived in
Seattle was there. And I was like, this is weird.
Like, I'm sure I'm dreaming. But then I kind
of like Suzanne told me everything. And it was
still like a dream to me at that point. Like,
oh, you're. You're at UC. You had this happen.
You were playing basketball. And, like, I was,
like, joking with everybody because I didn't
realize the gravity, like, what had actually
happened because I'm still out of it. I can't
really move. Like, I don't really understand.
Like, I have my brothers here. I have my buddy
Ish, who is, like, an IM resident. He was in
there. And another buddy of mine was there. John
Kane was there. And it was just such a random
group of people that I was like, what the hell
is going on? Um, and I remember it very vividly.
And then, um, I guess they like increased my
sedation for that night. Cause I, I went, I was
out. And then the next day, um, I just remember
one of the respiratory therapists pulled my tube
and I was, I was just in a K hole for like two
days, like a ketamine hole. I was having really,
really bad, uh, Once everything wore off and
it was just the ketamine that was still there,
probably ketamine and benzos, I was having some
really crazy dreams, really crazy visions. I
was seeing things. I was hearing things. And
that took a day and a half. I didn't sleep a
wink. Tortured my nurses. Tortured my wife. I'm
sure. But they all knew that's not me. So when
I look back and I think about, wow, how terrible
I was to everybody, they all know me. So, and
I went back and thank them all and gave them
all big hugs and, but yeah, then I got some clarity
and then I was out of there. Like in a day I
did everything. I was like, went to the bathroom,
walked around, uh, organized cardiac rehab at
home, got my life vest, called the life vest
people myself. Really? I swear. Yep. Called them
myself. The best part is that everyone thought
I was in a K hole the next day. I would, I like
had, I'd kind of shooken it for the most part.
Sure. Called them myself. The lady showed up
at like 6 a .m. Nobody knew that she came, but
I did. I got fitted and everything. And they
came and rounded on me that morning. And I was
like, yeah, the life vest. People came and everyone's
like, they didn't believe you. Oh no. You said
like seeing things. And I was like, no, it was
like a nice blonde lady came and she fit it in
there. Just like, that was probably your nurse.
I was like, no, my nurse was a black lady. Like
totally. And then, and then the best is that
they dropped a note in the chart. And then I
think everybody realized like, okay, I think
he's, I think he's back to himself. And yeah.
Wow. I remember. um i i had the privilege of
coming to visit you a few times i i was part
of the effort with the kudos committee to collect
a lot of people really cared and wanted to send
notes to you and to your family and we set up
an email address that's normally just for people
to send compliments to each other uh called the
kudos uh email but we repurposed it so that people
could send messages to you and your family and
we we got hundreds of people who typed brief
notes to you or sometimes longer notes and uh
i was fortunate to be able to come and deliver
those uh having gotten permission yeah um to
your family and i i remember giving those to
you and every time I went and saw you briefly
and kind of got to tap you on the shoulder and
told you I loved you. Um, Alexander was always
there. She was there every single time. I don't
think she actually. No, never left, never left.
Uh, so yeah, she was a, she was a resident at
the time herself and thankfully her program was
super understanding, but she was here for five
weeks. Her program, which isn't in Ohio. No,
she trained in Florida. um just kind of went
on a hiatus they were super understanding thankfully
she's like she was a really good resident and
she was she always passed her exams always did
well always like picked up for other people so
obviously people had no problem picking up for
her right um and i'm i'm i mean we're both so
close with everyone there we were anyway back
when we were she was training um they were all
good friends of mine too so it was hard for everybody
um Not just like my family, but like all my friends
here, all of her friends. Uh, so yeah, she was,
she never left my side. We had gotten engaged
like a year before that. And then we had like
our, uh, like our Muslim wedding, uh, maybe like
three or four months before that. And yeah, she
was like pretty much my wife at that point. Right.
From my, from my perspective, we hadn't had like
a big traditional wedding, but yeah. Well, you
did have a big traditional wedding later, which
was a really great time, by the way. It was one
of the best ones I've had. Yeah, best day of
my life. So a lot of times people don't know
what to say or how to respond to somebody after
they've had a big traumatic event like you've
had. So what was helpful or maybe not helpful
to you in your interactions with people afterwards?
I know we talked about how it doesn't define
you. But what advice would you give to people
who are wanting to help in these sorts of scenarios?
Yeah. I think this is a good question because
this is something I unpacked a lot in therapy.
And I had to really reel it back because one
thing that I noted was that when people were
trying to talk to me and show their gratitude
for me and... Um, just talk about it, which I
don't have a problem talking about it. Sure.
Um, everyone's trauma is different. You know,
everyone has bad things that happen to them in
life and traumatic events. And, uh, like the
severity is subjective, but, um, I learned a
lot about empathy through this. Just, uh, one
thing that I, that I've learned that I don't
do anymore, uh, just as a person. i don't try
to compare someone else's trauma to my own like
a lot of times people would tell me like stories
that happened to them when they were trying to
like empathize with me and that's just like trump
that like i i used it used to i used to feel
more sad after that because like people don't
realize you're trying to like have a have a common
bridge with the with with someone that you're
trying to talk to but all you're necessarily
doing is just like offloading your trauma onto
somebody else um and like I really, it took me
a lot of time to, um, and a lot of guidance to
just realize that it's all in good intention.
Like people don't know, like, how do you talk
to somebody who's died before? Like, that's how
I, like, how do you, how do you like have that
conversation? You know? So I think it was all
just out of like people's genuity. Um, but I
would say like, everyone's got their own issues
and trauma that, um, It's just not it wasn't
healthy for me to hear other people's situational.
Sure. Like situations, I guess. Just just having
people tell me, like, I'm glad you're OK. That
was like the most when people like I would bump
into I bumped into people in the hospital every
freaking day for like six months. People that
I didn't I didn't see their face. So like every
time your first interaction is like a big emotional
like, oh, my God, I'm so. like you know like
you you won't see somebody for like six months
and then you see them and then you haven't you
haven't thought about this day and so long and
then they then you just talk about it yeah they
just talk about it and the best interactions
that i had were just like brief that were like
i'm glad you're okay um so i don't know anytime
that i hear tragic news or like somebody's going
through something i keep it brief and i just
let them know that i'm thinking about them And
I don't try to belabor it unless they want to
talk. Like I'm, I'm happy to talk anytime. Um,
but, uh, I don't know, sometimes, especially
if we weren't close before. Sure. It was hard
to have those conversations with people. Um,
but yeah. So let's go less than a year after
your event. It's January, 2023. You're watching
Monday night football. Yeah. Uh, DeMar Hamlin
collapses on the field. What's what's. going
through your mind what are you thinking so oh
yeah uh it was just a it was just like a bird's
eye view of something like it was very eerie
for me i mean it was eerie for everybody but
um for me specifically like that moment within
five minutes i've got probably like 15 text messages
from different people like are you watching this
game my mom called me my wife called me um And
then I'm looking at it and I knew like when they
go to commercial like that and there's a big
crowd of people. I was sitting with my roommate
at the time and I just said, I think they're
doing chest compressions on this young man. And
lo and behold, like they get back, the tone of
the game is super somber. People are crying on
the field and I just. kind of knew what was going
on um my mom called me crying she's just like
this is what happened this is like i'm getting
like really my mom got really traumatized um
i imagine there's a big ptsd component so then
for me it was just like having a different perspective
on the whole thing because like for me when i
had my arrest i was fine i was asleep in the
icu i don't remember anything i just woke up
i had some rib pain because i cracked some ribs
but otherwise like It was all just emotional
and mostly just like supporting my family and
my wife emotionally. But now I'm like seeing
it from the other end of like, this is really
happening. And this person's mom is watching
this. And if he's got a partner, she's watching
this. And yeah, it was just a different perspective
for sure. So tell me a little bit more. How you
got involved with that situation afterwards?
Sure. So Damar was here at UC for about a week.
I don't know, maybe less than a week. I kept
my distance. I was like, you know, keeping tabs.
But in the back of my mind, I knew like this
guy got immediate CPR, which is the most important.
When you have an out of hospital cardiac arrest,
the most important thing is witnessed. And like,
like very limited downtime before compression
start. So I knew that they were doing compressions.
I knew they secured his airway. I knew that,
um, I didn't know, I shouldn't say that, but
like, I felt pretty confident, like this guy's
going to be okay. Like, I think he got here.
Um, and he's, it was just so similar to me. It
was so similar, like witnessed arrest, immediate
compressions, uh, got him here. Got him settled
in the ICU. They're doing all the things for
him. So my my my view of it was like a little
bit less morbid than everyone else, I think,
because I just kind of had this feeling like
I think this guy's going to be OK. And you're
seeing all the news cameras and people and everything's
like very sad for like days. It was like all
the news, all the sports news, everything, all
my notifications on my phone, Twitter, whatever.
Sure. And I just had like a different perspective
of it, of just like. I think this guy's going
to be okay. And then you start hearing things
around the hospital, you know, like he's doing
better and things are going in the right direction
and blah, blah, blah. And then my, I think it
was my mom. She, she made the nudge. My mom made
this comment of like, you know, I didn't really
have anybody at the hospital to kind of tell
me everything was going to be okay. Like people
told me that all the time, but. like nobody that
nobody credible like you know like nobody like
other than like yeah you have doctors and stuff
like that but nobody nobody who's like gone through
something as eerily similar within in a in a
vicinity like as being in the same city in the
same hospital same similar situation i mean i
have my congenital stuff and he's otherwise from
what i know otherwise healthy that just having
this random thing but um we're both like young
men that like this really was unexpected right
uh doing things that we love to do and like it
totally just changes your perspective of like
what do i do after this like i can i work like
immediately after i got um out of the hospital
like the question of like can i drive that was
a big that was huge like i couldn't drive for
six months after my arrest like from the date
of my arrest so like that was life -altering
but like i had there was an end date to it so
like but i didn't know that so there was like
a lot of depression leading up to like i can't
drive nobody's had this conversation with me
can i be in an operating room by myself like
is that legal like what are like what does this
mean am i done i don't have disability insurance
i don't have this that like everything kind of
just like clobbers you at once um and i think
that um having somebody like myself to go and
talk to my mom And tell her, like, it's going
to be okay. And I know that because this literally
just happened to me. So I had to jump through
some hoops to get there. Basically, I just broke
all the rules. And I just went because everyone
told me no. Because it was pretty lock and key
in the ICU. And I figured, you know what, this
department will have my back. So I kind of ignored
permission and I just went. And I just walked
into his room. Um, when I knew it was appropriate
and, uh, just kind of when I went in my street
clothes, just so that I wouldn't give this illusion
that like, I'm a doctor coming to update you
or anything. I just wanted to go in there. I
quickly like introduced myself and said, I'm
here as a doctor here, but I'm also just here
as a friend. Um, and it was like 7 PM. So everything
was chill. Nobody was rounding. Nobody was like
doing anything. And we did, I just sat in his
room for like 15 minutes and we talked about
it. Um, his parents were there and they were
really appreciative. And he asked me for my contact
information just to talk. Uh, cause like they
were like, if, when I walked in that room, it
was like deer in headlights. People don't realize
like, yeah, this guy's a pro athlete, but he's
a kid. Right. And, um, like every, every time
someone comes in the room, when you're in that
situation is like, uh, you don't know what's,
what they're going to tell you. So. um we just
became friends uh and then i don't know i got
his number i was like he's never gonna text me
it's fine like i just i'm glad i was able to
like get like say something to him and hopefully
i helped like i had something i felt like i had
something to give that was um productive and
that was a little bit different from maybe what
they've been experiencing this week and it turns
out i made a big difference for that guy uh and
his family i like they know me by name Um, he's
mentioned me multiple times, um, when it comes
to his like recovery and stuff like that. Uh,
we still chat every once in a while, just catch
up, nothing crazy. Um, but I feel like I made
a good impact on somebody from like something
terrible that happened to me. Um, you don't really
like have that outlook when you're going through
it. Um, so like when I was able to like help
somebody that went through something so similar
to myself, it like, helped me too because i was
i was in a funk like at that time i was still
i mean i had just started driving at that point
right but um i was like taking an uber to work
every day and i couldn't get groceries i couldn't
like go to the gym i couldn't do anything because
it's like i gotta pay for this and like i don't
want to deal with all that and it's just like
you get into like a depression and sure i don't
know yeah so uh that was like an uplifting thing
for me that kind of helped me get through the
rest of my residency honestly because that was
like the home stretch Yeah. Yeah. Somehow. And
this I think was the craziest part of the whole
thing. You still somehow graduated on time. Yeah.
I only missed about a month of work. Yeah. Maybe
like five weeks, but I don't know. I was going
nuts. I was at home. I was feeling okay. I was
going on long walks. I wasn't really getting
super winded. Uh, the only thing that was like
painful was like my incision from when they put
the defibrillator in, but that was. That was
like the only limiting factor. And I got back
to work and I worked, I think I was with Sajan
for a week, one of my co -residents. And he's
like, I don't know why I'm here. You're good.
I talked to him a lot, actually, just to check
on how you were doing. And then I think I remember
I worked with you one of those very first days.
Yeah. I gave you one of my quizzes. That was
when I knew you were neurologically intact. That's
when you aced one of my... tougher quizzes yeah
it's like wow okay well i guess he's all he's
all set yeah i mean they did a good they they
were good to me they they a bunch like for up
and i think i don't think i took a call shift
it was months like people were just i didn't
even ask for that people were just like taking
them um people were just looking out for me and
then i finally had to say like i can work Like
I can work on a Saturday guys. Like you don't
have to, I can sleep at this hospital. It's fine.
Um, but yeah, it was like true. Like the, the
community here was amazing, especially like just
within the department. I mean, I knew, I knew
I like, this was my family away from home. I'm
not from here. Right. Like, um, so like this
was my family before that event. And then it
just got even more solidified for sure. Well,
at the end of these, I usually ask people what
their style points, points of personal preference
in the OR that have helped them succeed through
their careers are. And I want to ask you sort
of the same question, but obviously with a little
bit of a different flavor based on everything
that you went through. What style points do you
have to offer for us based on your whole experience?
Let's see how I can tie this. I think. And ultimately,
when I, I don't know, I think the thing that
I preach and practice the most is just respect.
And I think that having like a, like such a grounding
experience. And like, I always tell people, the
thing that happened to me that impacted me the
most was the impact that this event had on just
my perspective on life. Just like the. Like I
went from like being a medical student to a resident.
Like I need to do this. I need to do that. I
need to do this fellowship. I have to do this
research and I'm behind on this, that, the other.
And then this happened to me. And then I, and
then just like everything became a bird's eye
view. Like the perspective totally changed. Like
family first. Like I hadn't, I, I don't, I. I
thought that everything was good with my family,
but I realized I had gotten such tunnel vision,
like being in residency and like just pursuing
my goals and my relationship. And like, I just
had no like, um, big picture ability. So what
came with that was just like loving everybody
around me and just having respect for everybody.
Um, And I just preach that in the OR. I'm so
nice. I try to be. I'm being really facetious
right now. But I try to be so nice to everybody
that I work with. And as far as I know, my reputation
with the people I work with at my job, I only
get good feedback because of just how respectful
I am to the nurse that's orienting in the room,
the circulating nurse in the OR, the surgeons,
the fellows, the medical students. I treat everybody
exactly the same. There's no ego from the anesthesia
side of things in the room that I work in. And
it's just good vibes. And that just makes the
day better for everybody. Even when you have
a really sick kid, if you're just positive and
you just wear it on your sleeve that everything's
going to be okay, and even if things aren't going
great, if you just try to... try to get through
it and don't get stressed and just know that
everybody has a job and that they're doing their
job to the best of their ability, uh, without
like upsetting people in the room. That's, those
are my style points than the way that I practice.
Um, I've only been in attending for about six
months, but I've just gotten a lot of feedback
of when things are hitting the fan. Uh, like
Yusuf is like, has a finger on the pulse and
knows like, who to call. And that just comes
from being calm and being respectful and not
trying to do other people's job and trusting
other people and just having that respect. And
I, I like to think that I was like that before
this event, but it definitely, I definitely started
being more mindful of it for sure. From everything
that I know and have talked to other people about,
those are straight facts. So I can confirm all
of those things. I appreciate it. Thank you so
much for joining us. And I really appreciate
you coming here. Yeah, man. It's an honor. Thanks
for listening to this month's episode of Style
Points. As a reminder, every episode is 100 %
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