You are now listening to Cryptid Cocktail Party.
Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of
Crypto Cocktail Party, a show where we have a
few drinks, share a few laughs, take a dive into
the unknown. I'm your host, Dave, joined as always
by my wonderful also host, Sarge. Also host.
Also host, Sarge the Destroyer. What's going
on, bud? How you doing? I'm doing good. I'm doing
good. I'm getting back into the TikTok thing,
making TikTok videos again. Okay. How's that
going? Great. Yeah. I mean, you were always good
at it to begin with. I'm disappointed that I'm
not getting as many unhinged comments, but I'm
also reaching an era where I am not going to
respond to them anyway. You know, you can see
how that works. I mean, hopefully, hopefully
you get something. I mean, that's the best, the
best part of posting anything on TikTok is just
getting absolutely unhinged bullshit thrown at
you. I know that's actually what I like. The
thing is though, like I'm getting the D squad
trolls on TikTok. Nothing really compares to
like old school Twitter day trolls. Because you
would just get like fully unhinged comments.
Oh, yeah. They're a different breed over there
on Twitter. Yeah. It's a different type of person
altogether. Right. I would regularly apologize
to people because their parents decided not to
pay for the abortion. Jesus Christ. You do that
on TikTok and you get a ban real quick. They
don't have the stomach for my brand of humor.
They don't have the gumption. Right. All right.
The stick -to -itiveness. Well, hopefully that
works out for you. How was your weekend? It was
good. I'm a little hungover. We went to the Subaru
Cherry Blossom Festival in Philadelphia yesterday,
and I drank one too many Yuzu Shandies, and it
was worth it. Oh, God, that sounds so good. Yeah.
It made prepping for this episode today more
difficult, but... See, we didn't have any festivals
up here. protests. Yeah, well, there was the
No Kings protest in Philly yesterday. I didn't
go because I was drunk underneath cherry blossoms.
The problem is, though, up here, we have a protest
like every weekend. New England has been famous
for protesting government since the 1700s. We
were not a good colony. Yeah, you guys were a
bit of a problem back in the day. We did not
get along with the government. Yeah, there was
a whole tea party thing that went down, if I
remember correctly. Yep. Yeah. And a revolution
that followed that we started. Ah, that's whatever.
That's no big deal. Neither here nor there. Had
they foreseen what was to come of their great
experiment, I think we probably would have remained
British. Well, speaking of the English and also
colonies, this is the perfect segue to jump into
today's topic, Sarge. I love it. Glad I thought
of it. So this week, we're going to be talking
about one of the most famous mysteries in American
history. And that is the lost colony of Roanoke.
Are you familiar? Yeah. Yes, I'm very familiar.
Holy shit. Am I familiar? Yeah. God damn it.
This is my this is my time to shine. So this
is one of those stories that I feel like everyone
has heard of, but they kind of only get like
the spark notes version of it, which is that
a bunch of English colonists showed up to Roanoke
Island in the 1500s. They tried to establish
a colony. The governor leaves to get supplies.
And when he comes back, everyone's gone. There's
no bodies, no sign of a struggle, just the abandoned
settlement and the word Croatoan carved into
a fence post. That's like the spark nose version
that I feel like everyone knows. I feel like
if I was that governor, I couldn't help but take
that personally. Well, there's a reason why.
I mean, we're going to get into it, but yeah,
it's a tale as old as time. So I figured today
we would go over the history of the colony, what
it was, who was there, all that jazz, and then
dive into some theories of what might have happened.
That is one hell of an Irish goodbye. Well, it's
a bit more complicated than that, Sarge. So first
to understand why Roanoke was even a thing, you
kind of have to understand that England in the
late 1500s was looking at the New World, a .k
.a. America, and realizing that they were a little
bit late to the party. Behind the eight ball,
for sure. Yeah, by the time England seriously
started trying to establish actual settlements
in America, Spain was... light years ahead of
them they were planting flags claiming territories
extracting resources and just generally acting
like they kind of owned half the planet which
to be fair at that time they kind of did they
famously named the appalachian mountains did
they i didn't know that yeah they named the appalachian
mountains after a native american tribe that
was fucking nowhere near the appalachian mountains
that sounds about right they were in louisiana
but they were like Appalachian, all the way up.
Might as well be. So for England, colonizing
the New World at this point wasn't about finding
some new sick place to live. It was more about
not letting Spain get any more richer or stronger
than they already were. enters into the story
Sir Walter Rowley. So in 1584, Rowley was granted
a charter by Queen Elizabeth, which gave him
permission to go and establish English settlements
in parts of North America that England considered,
quote unquote, unclaimed, which back then was
just normal European logic of, well, if another
Christian monarch doesn't officially own it,
I guess it's ours now, which of course is crazy
considering there were already people very much
living there. Eddie Izzard had a great bit about
that where he's like, ah, we've discovered America
and the natives are like, ah, excuse me, hi.
Yeah, no. Do you have a flag? Yeah, it was very
much claimed at that point. But it's important
to remember because Roanoke wasn't just some
empty, untouched island waiting for a bunch of
half -wit English people to come on over and
invent the concept of getting lost. The region
was already home to multiple indigenous communities,
all with their own political relationships, trade
systems, territorial boundaries, and survival
knowledge, which the English had absolutely zero
of. But for the English, Roanoke seemed like
the most logical place to try and set up because
it's... Seemed like it could be strategically
useful. It had access to waterways, there were
barrier islands and inland sounds, and it looked
like a place where England might be able to establish
a foothold in the New World without immediately
getting steamrolled by the Spanish. But there's
another layer to this, and that was privateering.
So I'm sure you and the listeners are aware,
colonial ventures like these weren't always just
about building cute little settlements with like...
crops and cabins and shit. A lot of them were
also tied up in the idea of using these outposts
to support attacks on Spanish ships. You gotta
get that loot, baby. Yeah, right. Right. You
gotta loot max. Exactly. You're loot maxing.
Exactly. So all this to say that Roanoke wasn't
just a settlement project. It was part of a much
bigger imperial pissing contest happening between
England and Spain at the time. And right from
the jump... this whole thing was built on ambition
bad assumptions and the fucking idea that england
could just drop people into a place they barely
understood and somehow make it work which the
misplaced confidence of the british is mind -blowing
to me which in hindsight stupid fucking plan
i feel like i feel like they should have known
from the get -go so so let's dive into the first
attempt at colonizing the island because and
i don't know if most people know this but By
the time the colonists we associate with the
mystery arrived in 1587, the English had already
tried to do this once, and it went very poorly.
I didn't know this, but I'm not surprised. I
think their logic was like, well, it's an island,
so we've been there before. So after an early
reconnaissance mission in 1584 came back with
rave reviews about the area, England decided,
all right. Let's fucking do this. So in 1585,
a much larger expedition was sent out to establish
an English foothold in the region. And just to
be clear, this wasn't like a let's go start a
nice little community and make a new life for
ourselves type of operation. It was like a let's
get a bunch of armed Englishmen over there and
see if we can hold some territory type. Yeah,
let's kill everyone and then set up a tea shop.
And leading this first effort was a man named
Ralph Lane, who would later become one of the
key figures. turning the entire Roanoke situation,
at least the first one, into an absolute shitshow,
but not right away. At first, like most colonial
ventures, the English relied heavily on the local
indigenous communities for things like, you know,
food and basic survival knowledge, which makes
sense because these Pacey Caucasians just basically
rolled up to a place they didn't. understand
at all with zero clue on how to sustain themselves
and they were pretty much pro -maxing at misplaced
confidence yeah they were uh they were pretty
much immediately dependent on the natives from
day one and that relationship was fragile at
best and uh right and over time the relationship
between the english and the local tribes just
got even more strained and then to make things
worse lane and his men killed a local indigenous
leader named pamisapan aka wingina Lane framed
this killing as a quote -unquote preemptive move,
pretty much saying, well, we had to strike first
before they struck us, but that's just something
colonizers say to justify doing horrific shit.
That makes no fucking sense. Yeah. Now, whether
or not Lane actually believed he was preventing
an attack or this was just an act of colonial
violence dressed up as self -defense, the result
was the same. The English had drew first blood
and pretty much solidified that this colony wasn't
going to last. It didn't. By 1586, the colony
was collapsing. Supplies were an issue. Conditions
there were pretty rough. And by this time, England
had lost all confidence in this place becoming
any sort of stable footholds in the region. And
by the time Sir Francis Drake showed up in the
area, the remaining colonists abandoned the whole
thing entirely and just returned to England.
Morons. Yeah. Absolute morons. Yeah. So just
to recap. By the end of this first attempt, Roanoke
was already associated with failure, instability,
piss -poor planning, and a violent conflict with
the people who actually lived there. Not exactly
the kind of foundation you'd want to attempt
a second colony on, but that's exactly what England
decided to do. They saw all that and were like,
yo, let's run this shit back. Let's do it again.
Let's wait until all the people who remember
inevitably die and then come back. Well, it wasn't
that long because it was only a year later in
1587. Morons. That a new group of colonists was
sent across the Atlantic. But this time, instead
of being mostly soldiers and dickheads trying
to establish a military outpost, this expedition
included families, men, women, children. So this
second attempt was meant to be more like a real
permanent settlement type deal. And leading this
new group of colonists was a man with the rather
fitting name of John White. Can't make that shit
up. And he's arguably like, the most important
person in this entire story. And it's pretty
much, he's the reason why we know so much about
Rowan, at least what we do know about it, which
makes sense seeing as he was the governor of
the colony and all, but most of the written record
about what happened comes either directly from
him or through like publications based on his
accounts. I liked it. Their whole plan was let's
go back with more fragile people. Yeah. These
soldiers were too hardy for the land. We need
people who are going to die immediately. Yeah,
and some of those people included Mr. White's
daughter, Eleanor Dare, her husband, I think
it's Ananya Dare. I don't know how to pronounce
it. And then not long after that, not long after
the colonists arrived, Eleanor gave birth to
her daughter, Virginia Dare, and she was the
first English child born in North America, which
is kind of a cool fact, but also kind of... Makes
what happens later a bit of a bummer. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So, yes, they definitely went over there
with more fragile people. Yeah. But before things
really started to fall apart, the colony was
already dealing with what some would call a bit
of a whoopsie. They weren't where they were supposed
to be. The plan was not for the... 1587 colonists
to settle at Roanoke. That wasn't the plan. Their
intended destination was further north in the
Chesapeake Bay area. That was the plan. But for
reasons we don't really know, that's not what
happened. According to John White's account,
once the expedition reached the area, the colonists
were basically forced to remain at Roanoke. All
thanks to the pilot, Simon Fernandez, or at least
that's who White blames for it. No one really
knows why he dumped them there. I like that when
they discovered they were in the wrong place,
they were like, well, we're out of air, so I
guess we can't sail to the next spot. Yeah, I
don't know why. I feel like that's more of a
mystery than the actual fucking mystery is why
they just got dumped there. But it doesn't matter
because they were there now. And so before this
new settlement even had a chance to get its footing,
it was already stuck in the wrong place. With
limited supplies and all the baggage of an already
failed colony hanging over it. And immediately
they kind of all knew that they were fucked.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Food and supplies were a major
issue. Their ability to survive was shaky at
best. And the colonists before them had already
managed to create a little bit of a tension between
them and the local indigenous tribes. Safe to
say that this wasn't a situation where they could
just like wait it out and see what happens. They
needed help and they needed it fast. So in August
of 1587, so not long after the colony had been
established, it's like months, the settlers formally
appealed to John White to return to England and
bring back supplies as fast as he could. And
so he did, which at least from his perspective,
must have been a super hard decision because
his daughter's there. His granddaughter was just
born. He just had to like. trust that he would
be able to get to England get what he needed
in return as soon as possible and he believed
that he could but things didn't quite go according
to plan because by the time it's not yeah by
the time white made it to England England was
dealing with some pretty big issues specifically
Spain and the Spanish Armada You know, just a
little thing called the Spanish Armada. No big
deal. Yeah. And the idea of like sending ships
and resources across the Atlantic to save some
struggling colony moved pretty far down the list
of England's priorities. So White got stuck there.
Yeah, he did make it. They were like, fuck those
guys. Yeah, he did. He did make attempts to go
back, though. But the first serious like relief
effort failed pretty hard. Ships were damaged.
Ships were being prioritized for like privateering
and the war effort. And obviously, again, the
whole Spanish Armada thing. And the entire time
the colony was just back in Roanoke, just like
waiting and then slowly coming to the realization
that no one's coming for us. Yeah, it's over.
Yeah, it took John White three years to finally
make it back to Roanoke. He wouldn't return until
1590, and I'm sure he knew he wasn't going to
make it back and see a thriving colony. I'm sure
that hope was long gone. But what he found was
much worse, and that was nothing. The whole colony
was just abandoned. And I don't mean destroyed
or attacked. It was just empty and not like...
And not just empty either. The settlement looked
like it had been taken apart and just left behind.
The houses were dismantled. The whole area had
been enclosed and reinforced with a strong palisade.
There was evidence that the colonists had altered
the site deliberately before leaving, which means
that this probably wasn't some middle -of -the
-night panicked escape. It looked like they had
just packed up and gone somewhere. So are you
following so far? Yes. I'm good. I get it. They
went to the colony. They're fucked. He peaced
out. It feels like a lot of work. It feels like
a lot of work. Like if you were going to abandon
a place, why take it apart? You don't know. I
wonder if maybe they were like, there were some
supplies that they needed to take, but they couldn't
take them until they took it apart. Maybe like,
maybe they were trying to, I don't know. It doesn't
make any sense to me. I don't know. But maybe
that was just standard practice. Like maybe like
if they were like to leave, they just. Took it
down. Maybe the English had a leave it better
than you found it type deal. I mean, I know that's
not true. They did the exact opposite of that.
They did. They did the exact opposite. Yeah,
but that's not all they found. As White and his
party approached the area, they found the letter
CRO carved into a tree, and at the entrance to
the settlement itself, carved clearly into a
wooden post was the single word Croatoan. I think
most people... That's the one thing they remember
most about this story, was everyone's gone, and
the word Croatoan. Now, people like to make this
out to be more mysterious than it is, and the
real historical version is a little different
than the legend people tend to turn it into,
because in the actual context of the story, the
word Croatoan carved into a fence post wasn't
necessarily mysterious at all, at least not to
white anyways. See, before he left in 1587, White
said that there had been an agreement in place.
If the colonists had to relocate, they were supposed
to carve the name of the place they were going
so that anyone returning could follow the trail.
And if they had been forced to move under distress
or they were in danger, they were supposed to
carve a cross alongside the message, which is
an important detail because when White found
Croatoan, there was no cross. So in his mind,
at least, this was not a sign of catastrophe.
He actually took this as... as a sign of hope
because the word Croatoan referred to both a
nearby place and an indigenous group that the
English had some degree of friendly relationship
with still. So white just assumed they moved.
Then they left that clue and they are probably
still alive, which is a reasonable conclusion
to come to because beyond the carvings, there
weren't any of the signs you might expect to
find if the entire colony had been wiped out.
Like there was, there was no blood. There's no,
there's no bodies. Yeah. There's no sign of a
massacre. There wasn't any like mass graves found.
Uh, there's no, there's like no evidence to suggest
that a hundred plus people died. They were just
gone. But to make it worse, like white never
actually got the chance to follow up on that
lead. Uh, despite all this literal sign saying,
Hey dickhead, go check crow tone. He never. Ended
up making it there, but it wasn't for a lack
of trying. The problem was that he wasn't operating
alone. He was traveling with sailors and privateer
interests, and conditions at sea were working
against him, with bad storms and maritime pressure
all getting in the way of a thorough search effort,
which sucks, because at this point, the trail
basically goes cold. There's no confirmed relocation
site, no confirmed graves, no written testimony
from the colonists after White left. Just an
abandoned colony, a carved word, and one of the
most... famous historical question marks in American
history. So what happened to them? Well, we don't
know. I was going to say Bigfoot. You think it
was Bigfoot? No, no, I don't. I even, even in
this hypothetical situation, I don't think Bigfoot
exists, but it is, it is kind of fitting that
they're this close to Appalachia and everyone
disappears. I mean, it's on brand. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. East coast of the United States is not
a safe place. No, especially in the waters. Yeah.
Or the woods. It's pretty much anywhere. It's
all, it's all bad. I mean, I love it. Yeah. But
me too. Me too. Big fan, but you know, well,
do you want to get in some theories about what
people think? All right. So the first and probably
the most likely is that the colonists left Roanoke
and relocated to Croatoan. where they either
joined or lived alongside them. Croatoan makes
the most sense as a place they would have gone.
Like they had a plan in place to let whoever
know where they were, if they left, they had
some kind of okay relationship with them. And
if you're stranded under supplied and no one
is coming to save you, it's a pretty logical
move to go to where people might actually help
you. Makes sense to me. And there is some evidence
that this might have actually been the case.
Archaeologists found evidence of the English
at different Croatoan sites. There was like pottery.
They found the hilt of a sword. There's some
copper aglets. And there are also rumored reports
of like from future settlers that they were encountering
indigenous people with gray and blue eyes and
other features that the English interpreted as
rather, quote unquote, European. Another theory
is that they just moved inland. It's something
that I guess they had been discussing for a while
before Whitehead even left. They wanted to move
like 50 miles inland because Roanoke sucks. And
again, they weren't even supposed to be there
in the first place. Another theory is basically
like a combination of the two, and that's just
they split up. Some may have gone to Croatoan.
Some might have gone inland. Some probably died
trying to relocate. Everyone just kind of went
their separate ways in order to survive anyway.
They could. Yeah, I mean, English settlers are
famously a fragile people. Yeah. Like, if you
look at the first settlement in New England,
like, had it not been for the Native Americans,
they would have all died in that first. Oh, yeah.
We would have been cooked. Yeah. And then there's
the idea that they were just all killed or were,
like, wiped out due to starvation or disease.
There are some supernatural theories, like. alien
abduction of course yep uh there's also a theory
that there was a zombie disease and they all
ate each other okay but it was contained to the
eye since it's an island it was contained and
then it just burnt out but and all real like
realistically it's probably just the first one
they just went to i mean if you look at every
other situation of historical cannibalism there's
bones with teeth marks left you know yeah like
If you don't, you're going to find some bones.
Like human beings are pretty good at like storing
food in a certain way. So there's going to be
something left over. Human bones just don't disintegrate
after three years. They could with salt water
from the, you know. I mean, if the bones are
in salt water, but not on an island. Well, I
don't know. Maybe it's a real salty island, dude.
I don't fucking know. I don't live there. I think
we both know the English are famously resistant
to salt. Or any seasonings in there. That's why
they had to take over India. And then they have
all those spices. They don't even use them in
their cooking. I mean, yeah, they just make the
other people's food. Which is why curry is so
famous in England. Because they were like, everything
we do is terrible. Let's just eat the whole meal
from that country. I wonder if English curry
is good. I'll be honest, I've never tried it.
I've had Japanese curry and that's phenomenal.
Japanese curry is the shit, dude. It is amazing.
There you have it, Sarge. That is the legend
of the lost colony of Roanoke. There's no answers
here. I have nothing for you. It's just a story.
My thought is they probably split up. They probably
split up. Some went some way and some went another
way. If you look at famous shipwrecks, that always
seems to happen. There always seems to be two
factions and they split up and then they both
die. Like they probably hooked up with the native
Americans. They probably like connected with
them and maybe some settlers made it into the
tribe, but I, I just don't see colonial people
surviving very long. Yeah. Plus if they, if they,
Move further inland. Do you think there would
have been evidence of like a whole nother settlement?
Yeah, they would have built a settlement if they
stayed together. I think you would have seen
more evidence of them. That's why I think they
split up. And so they're sort of scattered to
the wind. That's what I think happened. That
makes the most sense. And they probably did intermarry
and stuff, but I think it's a combination of,
of, you know, disease and illness killing them.
Probably animals too. I mean. Oh yeah. And then.
You know, intermarrying with the tribes, because,
I mean, that was not super uncommon. There's
a theory that the Vikings, when they came to
New England or came to the North America, there's
a theory that they also intermarried with the
Native American tribes because when later expeditions
came to New England, they found natives with
facial hair, which is not a super common thing
in the Native American community. That makes
sense. I mean, yeah, I guess if you're just not
a dickhead, you can learn to live harmoniously
together. Yeah. And like, you know, there was
a lot to, there was a lot to be said back in
the day about how Native Americans were supposedly
savage, but more, more recent historical findings
show that even when they took prisoners of war
and use them as slaves, eventually they turn
them into citizens of their tribe. Just kind
of assimilated them into. Yeah. Yeah. That makes
sense. Yeah. Well, in the end, we'll never really
know. I remember when I first heard this story
as a kid, I was like, oh man, something cool
happened. Well, that's like when I, cause I don't
know why, but in my head, it seemed like more
of a mystery. Like when I remembered it before
like researching it, I was like, oh, this is
going to be fucking crazy. And it's like. This
is literally all it is. There's no, right. There's
nothing. I learned about this in the, in the
early nineties in my teacher was like, and they
never found a trace of them. That's not true.
Yeah. It wasn't true then. Yeah. It's just not
true. Yeah. Because there was evidence of them
being with the native Americans. Now, whether
the archeologists, whether they found that stuff,
like that was just from trading. it's not evidence
that they actually lived with them, but it's
better evidence than they were fucking abducted
by aliens or they just walked into the ocean.
Like, yeah, there's absolutely no evidence that
they were abducted by aliens. So, uh, and, and
there wouldn't be exactly, which I understand,
you know, they didn't have Geiger counters back
then. So they couldn't check for radiation. That's
true. You know, that's true. And they did disassemble
the buildings. Maybe the, maybe the aliens were
like, you know, this is messy. Let's just stack
up all the lumber in the corner over there. We
need to get access to those square nails they
use. Yeah, that's it. That's all I got. Thank
you. It's a fun story. It's a fun mystery. It's
a crazy story. I've always been fascinated with
this story. I think it's really interesting.
I think the reality of it is probably pretty
mundane, but it doesn't make it any less of an
interesting story. All right. Well, with that
out of the way, before we do our normal stuff,
is there anything you want to plug or say or
anything? Yeah, yeah. There's going to be a new
episode of Citizen's Guide to the Supernormal
coming out. We're covering one of the most important
news stories of the last hundred years, I think.
Is it Gerald the Dolphin? I can't say because
I don't want to give it away before we cover
it, but we're recording it tonight. It'll probably
come out on Tuesday, my guess would be. Hell
yeah. All right. I'm excited for it. It better
be about fucking Gerald or I'll be very upset.
It will not be about Gerald, but I can mention.
I can make a quick mention of him. All right,
good, good. Yeah, and you can find Sarge on all
the socials. Just look up Sarge the Destroyer.
Or you can find all of them in the link in our
Instagram, which is at Cryptic Cocktail. Follow
us on TikTok, Cryptic Cocktail Party. We have
a hotline now. Yes. I set up a hotline. You buried
the lead. We should have mentioned this earlier.
I'm very excited about the hotline. I want unhinged,
drunk. Can we get texts? Yeah, you can get texts.
I want unhinged, drunk texts from all of you.
Yeah, you can text. You can text photos, videos,
stuff like that. You can call. If you've had
any experiences with the supernatural, paranormal,
whatever you want to call it, call us up. You
can leave a voicemail. You can send us a text
with pictures and stuff. The number is 321 -300
-5606. 321 -300 -5606. That's it. Yes. You only
have three minutes to leave a voicemail. So if
you have a story, try and make it quick or just
leave multiple, but just let you know that it'll
cut you off after three minutes. Just wanted
to give you a heads up. Yeah. And then also,
you know, leave us a five star rating and review.
It really helps. And I think that's all I got.
So with that out of the way, Sarge, would you
like to say goodbye? And I love you to the audience.
Hell yeah. Goodbye. And I love you.