You are now listening to cryptid cocktail party
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode
of Cryptic Cocktail Party Show, where we have
a few drinks, share a few laughs, take a dive
into the unknown. I'm your host, Dave, joined
as always by my wonderful co -host, Sarge. How's
it going, Sarge? Woo! Okay. Feeling good today.
All right. And we're also joined today by comedian
Rob Crean. How's it going, man? Great. Thanks
so much for having me. Thanks for being here.
Rob, real quick before we dive in. Are you like
a cryptids guy, paranormal guy? Is this something
that you've ever delved into? Absolutely, yeah.
I love this stuff. I'm from cryptid country myself.
I'm from the Bridgewater Triangle. And I've never
really had any experience with cryptids, but
I love the idea, and I hope to someday have cryptid
experiences. That's our goal. just before any
litigation happens i want to say bridgewater
triangle that is the intellectual property of
everyone's favorite cryptozoologist lauren coleman
so we can't gotta make sure that we put the credit
where credit is due i sent you guys uh sean donovan's
uh benefit right so good that was so funny so
fucking good so funny I wish I was a monster.
I was living in New Hampshire when that happened.
I wish I went to that. It would have been so
fucking funny. That museum is great, by the way.
Is it? Is it? I mean, it's I like it, I guess.
Maybe great is the wrong term. I love that he
has like pictures of celebrities. And it's so
funny because it's like the Bigfoot Museum. Like
a New York deli. But no, but like all the pictures
are blurry. Some people believe this is Wyatt
Cenac, but it's hard to tell. Oh, man. Well,
yeah, I just had to make sure we credited him
before he fucking... I'm not even kidding. Sarge
had the problem. Did he actually contact you
guys? Yeah, like, it was... It sounded like it
was coming from someone else, but I can't imagine
that there were that many people in that community.
I don't think so. And he wasn't mad that we made
fun of him. He was just mad that we didn't credit
him with some of the source material we used
in the show notes. Like, we said it was his,
but he wanted the link in the show notes. Yeah.
I was like, all right. All right, guys. Well,
today, I think I have a pretty good episode for
you today. It's kind of different. It's a little
bit weirder than what we normally do. It's still
a cryptid, but in a sense that it may not be.
How could it be weirder than what we normally
do? We talked about robot flowers. Isn't the
whole point of a cryptid is that it may not be
a cryptid? Like, that's the point. Yeah. I guess
technically a cryptid is just an animal that
hasn't been confirmed by science. But this goes
beyond that. Okay. You'll figure it out. Anyway,
so this week, gentlemen, we are going to be heading
to the birthplace of every nightmare you've ever
had. The Appalachian region, a place we have
come to know of very familiar with. And as we
know, there's than me. My nightmares are exclusively
I'm on the train and I'm late for work. I mean,
I've had many nightmares on the T2, but it wasn't
actually a nightmare. It was just a really rough
Tuesday. Yeah. I'm just looking at my phone being
like, ah, I'm going to be late. And then like
looking at it a few minutes later and being like,
ah, maybe if I run, I can make it. And also I,
I, I should, it's, it's Appalachian. Oh, whatever,
man. You can't even pronounce your own last name.
You're gonna tell me how to pronounce Appalachian.
Come on. From Appalachia. And she said, if you
don't say Appalachia, we'll throw an Appalachia.
Well, okay. I don't know her. So I think I'm
safe. I was having a debate with someone about
this and I looked it up. And apparently Appalachian
is the correct pronunciation, like all the way
through. But it's just a regional thing up here
that we call them the Appalachian. All right.
So as we know, the Appalachian region of the
good old US of A is home to more weird shit than
anywhere else in the country. You got the Mothman,
the Flatwoods Monster, the Grafton Monster, Sheep
Squatch. There are more cryptids in the Appalachian
region than there are divorced dads at any given
Steely Dan concert. So there's quite a few. But
one of those creatures over the past few years
has become increasingly popular on the paranormal
side of TikTok and Reddit. And that is the not
deer. Are either of you familiar with the not
deer? No. This sounds like... And it's spelled
not, like N -O -T... deer okay like it's not
like a k and it's not like a tied up deer or
anything like that joke what do you call a deer
with no eyes what's that no idea that only works
from new england i feel like because we're the
only place that puts an r at the end it's the
only place we add an r yeah yeah we take away
ours at the end but then we'll add them where
they don't belong for for you two as well for
those like listening who may be unfamiliar you're
probably asking yourself What the fuck is a not
deer? Well, for starters, it's not a deer. Thank
you for clearing that up. I might be a not deer.
I'm also not a deer. Yeah, so what isn't a not
deer? Well, the easy answer to that is a deer.
So did that clear anything up for you guys? Nope.
No. But that's usually how we start the show.
The knot deer is pretty much exactly what it
sounds like. In Appalachian lore, the knot deer
appears to be just an ordinary deer at first
glance, but if you give it more than just a passing
glance, something about it just seems... So it's
like looking at like an AI photo and you're like,
oh, man, that's Tom Hanks kissing Ghislaine Maxwell.
But then you realize they both have eight fingers
on each hand. Yeah. So like unlike other cryptids
like we've covered, which for the most part are
entirely fantastical, the not deer is defined
more by its distortion of a familiar animal.
It resembles a common deer, but is not one. So
did that help at all? Yeah, I think so. Yes,
actually, that helped me a lot. A little bit?
Okay. So like I said, the defining trait of a
knot deer is that at first glance, it could be
mistaken for a normal white -tailed deer. We're
all from New England. We know what a deer looks
like. But a closer look reveals something. off
it's like it's like if bambi was done in the
same animation style as tom hanks from the polar
express it's like that uncanny valley effect
that just fills you with dread as soon as you
see it it's not really catching hell on this
episode you brought up him i i will i if i had
known that you were going to reference him later
yeah also i have nephews and they love the polar
express they really love it that's crazy yeah
I love it too, but it's only because it haunts
me. It's like a horror movie. Now, physically,
in terms of general size and coloration, it's
just a normal white -tailed deer, but with some
anomalies that range from subtle to very fucking
dramatic. So first off, the eyes. Now, unlike
real deer, which have those large, adorable eyelashed
eyes set on the side of their head, a not -deer
is often described as having forward -facing
eyes like a predator. Not great. And this is
usually one of the first signs that something
isn't right. Then there's its body. The proportions
are just kind of off. Reports of the not deer
mention things like legs that are too long or
oddly jointed, sometimes described as double
jointed or bending in impossible ways. The torso
might be barrel chested or disproportionate and
the neck too long or the head too large or misshapen.
Moving from the torso back up to the head, let's
talk about the mouth. While a normal deer has
a fairly small and gentile mouth, like to eat
plants and stuff like that, not deer are said
to bear pointed teeth or fangs when they open
their mouths, and witnesses have described seeing,
quote -unquote, too many teeth or an almost carnivorous
grin. All bad. So now you know what to look for
physically if you think you're in the presence
of a not deer, but maybe you're still unsure.
Well, if the upsetting visuals isn't enough,
let's talk about how it behaves. Normal deer,
they're skittish around humans. They freeze or
flee at the slightest sound or jump out from
the woods and smash their own bodies into your
car because they're fucking morons. And that
has happened to more than one of my friends and
or family members. No. Yep. A not deer, by contrast,
they'll stand their ground and stare right back
at you. Many who have encountered it describe
a feeling that the creature is oddly intelligent,
watching them in a way that no ordinary animal
would. The not deer, in conjunction with looking
like a PlayStation glitch, it also moves like
one. It's said to move in a jerky, unnatural
way, described like an adult deer with the awkward
gait of a newborn fawn. The knot deer also stands
as well as walks on its hind legs. And instead
of gracefully bounding away at the slightest
hint of danger like a real deer would, the knot
deer might twitch, jerk its head, or even approach
in a disjointed, almost stop motion kind of walk.
This could just be a deer that found like a meth.
lab right also i just say dave while you're describing
all this your video is glitching in exactly the
ways you're describing that sounds about right
yeah no yeah that's right i mean the good news
is it glitches for the both of us but it records
solid so we'll be okay yeah but yeah dave kind
of looks like a not deer right now i hate that
or or a photo of bigfoot yeah or wyatt snack
at the at the Before we move on, how are we feeling
about the not deer? Has this cleared up at all
what a not deer actually is and what you should
be looking for? I think I have a pretty good
idea, yeah. Okay. I'm kind of disappointed that
the best they could come up with was not deer.
Like just meth deer would have been fine. It
describes it perfectly. I think so. It describes
almost everything perfectly with the exception
of deers. True. Now that we covered what it looks
like and how it acts, let's talk about some of
the encounters. Now, it seems as though that
there's like a recurring theme or like narrative
pattern when it comes to the sightings of the
not dear. So you got the setting. Almost every
story takes place in or near the woods, often
on a quiet back road or hiking trail in the Appalachian
region. It's usually dusk or night. Appalachian.
Appalachian. Fuck you. All right. It's usually
dusk or night or at least a time when visibility
is like poor, foggy, like that kind of stuff.
Now, the witness is typically alone or with one
other person. invoking the liminal feelings of
isolation. Common locales include stretches of
the Blue Ridge Parkway, secluded hollows in the
mountains, or rural country roads where deer
are normally plentiful. And then you have the
initial sighting. The person notices what they
think is a deer by the side of the road or among
the trees, and at first nothing seems amiss.
They might slow down their car to avoid hitting
it or quietly observe it from a distance while
hiking, like we all would when we see a deer
out in nature. The creature is often stationary
or moving slowly at this point. And then the
next is usually like the uneasy feeling. As the
observer watches a little longer, an inexplicable
sense of dread or quote unquote wrongness sense
in. Many report that before they consciously
see anything wrong, they felt something was off.
And this gut feeling is... Pretty much the hallmark
of a not deer encounter. It's kind of like a
prey instinct kicking in for the human, which
is something we don't feel very often. So it's
not a great feeling. And then there's like the
revelation. The witness then notices a specific
detail that shatters the illusion that this is
now no longer a deer. Perhaps the headlights
catch the animal's face and the eyes shine back
in a predator forward gaze instead of like the
normal side reflection of a deer. or the creature
steps into a beam of light and its proportions
are off. Maybe it bends a leg in an impossible
way as it moves, or it turns its head too far
around. And in some stories, the witness notes
the animal is on two legs or that it has no tail
when it should, or an oddly twisted neck. And
this is the, it's not a deer moment kicking in.
And then there's the aftermath. Typically at
that moment of realization, the witness is overcome
with fear. And in many tales, the person slowly
backs away or drives off while the not deer stares
intensely at them. Sometimes the creature will
then move towards the witness, prompting a panicked
escape. In a few more dramatic accounts, the
not deer gives chase, like, for example, chasing
a car for a short distance or running after a
hunter who disturbed it. But more often than
not, it simply disappears into the dark woods
after. staring you down almost as if it was like
it's like acknowledging that it's been found
out and witnesses often describe being deeply
shaken convinced they saw something unnatural
which they undoubtedly did because that's all
horrendous and i hate it it's a ballsy move for
a deer to chase a car yeah it's not great no
no that's the last thing i'd want imagine chasing
a guy who has a gun Like going after the hunter.
Yeah. Yeah. That's nuts. But the hunter has that
feeling of being prey in that moment. Yeah. That's
fucking wild. Imagine being so scared that you
have a loaded weapon and you're running away
from a fucking deer. Dude, imagine being at York's
Wild Animal Kingdom. And you're in the deer enclosure
part and one of the deer is just fucking like.
just all like walking at you like a new metal
guitarist all fucking herky jerky like I don't
need that I'm fucking set dude all right I know
I know that we cut shit out all the time but
I have to tell you guys the funniest thing about
York's wild kingdom so is it that one day I really
hope that they all break free onto the boardwalk
of York's wild of York because that'd be fucking
great I mean I that would be amazing too but
my dad went and they had like a tiger yeah and
it uh it sprayed him Just pissed right on my
dad. Like lifted his tail. Like how a cat does
it? Like how a cat does it, yeah. That's great.
And all he did was give my dad a free t -shirt.
Didn't refund the ticket, just gave him a free
t -shirt. Dude, I can't imagine. I've been in
houses where cats have sprayed and it's not great.
Yeah, it smells so bad. This has been family
lore since I was a baby. My mother brings this
up whenever she can. This is in Maine? Yeah.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yes, York, Maine. I've
never been there. Oh, it's fine. York Beach.
Oh, it's great. The last time I went, I took
a bunch of ecstasy, and then I stared at the
three -toed sloth for far too long, and then
it was all... The sloth breaks out some glow
sticks. It was like 110 degrees outside, which
is like the worst conditions you could ever take
any sort of ecstasy in. And I was I thought I
was going to die. And then they had the water
slide thing. So I went on that and I was perfectly
as bright as rain. Yeah, I've spent a lot of
time in Maine, but I've never been. I mean, I
live like a mile from a zoo that I also. Now,
one of the more widely shared encounters of the
not dear comes from a Reddit user who claimed
he was riding his motorcycle one night in the
Blue Ridge Mountains in the Appalachian region.
I think I forget where it was. I think it was
like West Virginia or North Carolina. It's who
cares. They're all the same state to me. I know
I've spent time in the Blue Ridge area in like
in eastern Tennessee, like western Virginia.
OK, my friend of the club down there called the
Blue Ridge Comedy Club in Tennessee, right across
the street from. Bristol, Virginia, which is
a great comedy club. So it could be there. Could
be there. It's all those places probably now
when he encountered. Yeah, so he was riding his
motorcycle one night in the Blue Ridge Mountains
when he encountered what he called a quote unquote
almost deer blocking the road. As he described
it, quote, it was like a deer. We've got a new
species. Calm down, Sarge. I like the idea of
there being like in the cryptic community, some
people that like are really for the term not
deer and others that are like, no, almost deer.
The infighting that happens. I want it to be
as much of a fight as like a UFO and an AEP,
you know? Oh yeah, right. Now, as he described
it, quote, it was like a deer that someone who
had never seen a deer drew after someone else
described it to them. I saw the eyes before my
headlight showed it fully. It was big, easily
the biggest deer I've ever seen. The head was
almost bovine in shape, but fixed to a deer's
frame. The legs seemed too long. The body extremely
barrel chested end quote. Now the creature did
not budge even after flashing his high beams
or revving his engine, but determined to get
this quote unquote deer out of the way. The dude
got off his bike. and started shouting at it
to scare it off. Instead, what happened was,
quote, as soon as I crossed to the other lane,
it rose up on its hind legs. It took two jerky,
unnatural steps toward the center lane on two
legs, froze again, stared directly at me, then
hopped on two legs several times until it disappeared
into the darkness. End quote. What the fuck?
Yeah, not great. It's all bad. And there are
hundreds of other accounts just like this across
the Internet, mostly on social media sites like
Reddit, TikTok, Tumblr, those sorts of places.
Some are worse, like the woman in North Carolina
who almost hit a deer on a foggy road only to
realize that the animal had, quote unquote, too
many eyes and was, quote unquote, heavily foaming
at the mouth, which is, again, not great. I hate
it. Yeah, I mean. Anytime you encounter an animal
that's foaming at the mouth, you're in trouble.
But when they have extra eyes, it's extra bad.
Yeah, see, I was thinking of it the other way.
It's like, oh, man, coming across an animal with
extra eyes is crazy. But also it has rabies?
Oh, come on, man. That's it. I'm leaving. It's
one or the other. You can't have both. All right?
I can deal with an animal with an extra eye.
We've seen The Simpsons. There's that gold, you
know, like. Yeah. I'm fine with the fish. Give
it extra eyes. I loved that fish. I feel like
the foaming mouth is the real terrifying part.
But that's just me. I'm a sucker for animals
with deformities. I don't know why. Yeah. I used
to have a three -legged cat. All about it. So
a multi -eyed deer, I'm fine with that too. I'd
hate to see what's in Dave's basement. It's mostly
cases of Narragansett and my laundry. And three
headless cats. Why headless? Why are they going
to be headless? You were just talking about deformed
animals. Yeah, that's not deformed. That's dead.
That's a serial killer. Oh. Well, I mean, if
it's still moving around, that's what's really
disturbing. So it's almost deformed. That's bad.
Yeah. It's like that chicken that cut the head
off and it still lived for whatever. He fed it
with an eyedropper, which is super fucked up.
Just kill that poor animal. Jesus Christ. Yeah.
All right. Gentlemen, fellows, my inspirations.
So we've talked about what a not deer is and
the telltale signs you may you may want to look
out for when you're face to face with one. But
let's talk about what a not deer isn't. This
is getting very confusing. So people sometimes
lump the not deer in. So this is kind of real
quick. This is more like the serious part of
the episode, I guess. All right. So it's not
a Wendigo. People sometimes lump the not deer
in with other lore, specifically Native American
lore like the Wendigo or the Skinwalker, but
it is further from those two things than anything
could be. A Wendigo is Algonquin folklore. It's
an evil spirit oftentimes associated with cannibalism
in the winter. In pop culture, it's sometimes
depicted with a deer skull head or antlers, which
is why some people try to lump the two together.
But traditionally, descriptions of the Wendigo
make it out to look more like... a zombie from
the walking dead rather than what you would see
the wendigo as we're not helping perpetuate that
stereotype by having it in our cover art for
the podcast but it's a sick imagery if you can't
deny that it's pretty awesome yeah yeah and if
you want to know more about the one to go you
can check out uh i did an episode on the one
to go way back um and the skinwalker is from
navajo traditions and this is a real dumbed down
version of what they are it's a witch that can
shape shift into animal forms Like a deer. The
knot deer legend, while superficially similar
in that it's a creature that looks like a warped
deer, does not carry the cultural context or
taboos of those other legends. In fact, native
writers and folklorists caution that equating
the knot deer with figures like the skinwalker
or the wendigo shows a lack of respect and understanding
of those cultures, which I 100 % agree with.
Yeah. The not deer is a separate distinct phenomenon
and it doesn't come with like the spiritual baggage
of a skin Walker or the moral cautionary role
of a Wendigo. So if it's not a native American
legend, as some seem to think it is, where does
this legend originate? Any guesses? Do you guys
have any idea where the not deer came from? A
meth lab. You know, it's just like, I think so
much of this, you know, whether it be cryptids
or, or. ghosts or aliens is all just like we
like psychic like you know psychic interference
you know it's something is is causing our brains
to perceive things in a specific way that are
and you know whether it's through outside interference
or it's just coming from our own brains i don't
know but okay i actually like that interpretation
you're kind of correct it does come from something
that uh is warping our brains um well despite
being famed as an appalachian folklore legend
The NotDeer's documented history is surprisingly
recent. Folklorists and internet historians have
found no evidence of a NotDeer tale in traditional
native or Appalachian mythology before the late
2010s. In fact, the concept seems to have originated
in 2019 when Tumblr user WillOfTheWitch made
a viral post describing a creature called the
quote -unquote NotDeer, claiming everyone in
Appalachia knows about it. This is a creepypasta,
basically. She later clarified that she herself
had learned of the knot deer as a local story
from around Boone, North Carolina, but it was
not a widely known legend beyond the area. In
other words, before the Tumblr post, the knot
deer was at most... an obscure tale if even that
and not a wide widely spread Appalachian tradition
honestly this sounds like something a dad told
his kid to keep the kid from going out at night
yeah now will the witch's post struck a chord
you know amongst the community and the idea of
a quote -unquote not quite a deer quickly went
from local lore probably made this shit up to
full -on modern cryptid. By 2020, discussions
of NotDeer sightings popped up on forums like
4chan and Reddit, and by 2021, the hashtag NotDeer
had tens of millions of views on TikTok. And
this rapid spread led many to assume that the
NotDeer must be a long -standing Appalachian
legend, when in reality, it's more accurately
described as modern folklore or quote -unquote
fake lore, which I love that. I love that term.
Yeah. Which is a legend created or popularized
in modern times, but set in traditional context,
much like the Slenderman or like the Black Eyed
Kids. Yeah. And the Appalachian setting gave
the story an air of authenticity since the region
is already filled with monsters and ghouls. Like
what's one more, right? Now in Appalachian communities,
people swap stories of witches and monster cats.
And the Not Deer fits right in in spirit, even
if it is like a newcomer by origin. The legend
has since been treated as an Appalachian legend
since, and in countless posts and articles showing
once again how internet culture can invent a
new myth and graft it into regional folklore.
Because even if the Not Deer is a modern folktale,
Appalachia is still one of... Those places where,
as one folklorist put it, quote unquote, a landscape
full of hidden things where you might see something
that looks like a deer but doesn't move like
a deer, end quote. And that, my friends, is the
end of our episode. That is the story of the
not deer. Rob, starting with you, how are we
feeling about the not deer? Thoughts? Yeah. Questions,
concern? It's fun. You know, I like that. It's
such an internet. thing obviously uh it comes
from the internet but i really like when i was
picturing it i was picturing it being like digital
era you know like you know because yeah to like
you know playstation glitching yeah like i imagine
it being like yeah like or like ai where everything's
slightly off but i think it's fun and creepy
it is fun and creepy but the thing is like i
before researching this episode i had no idea
that it started on tumblr i assumed that it was
an actual appalachian like folklore i even assumed
it was native american because it does kind of
sound like a legend you would think that would
come from a native tribe i mean not to equate
the two but like the skinwalker the wendigo they're
kind of i could see how people would put those
together and try and make sense of it but knowing
now that it's from tumblr and people are trying
to equate is kind of super fucked up yeah it's
annoying but also it shows it goes to show that
like social media is terrible and we should just
abolish it except for our fans we love you yeah
yeah yeah follow us on instagram at cryptic cocktail
um sarge how you feeling about the not dear all
right i gotta i gotta say a thing don't you edit
me um i gotta say a thing uh i am super frustrated
with everyone just throwing shit at um appalachia
i'm so annoyed with it i was watching um sense
though it's a fucking nightmare i know and like
i get it creepy woods kind of scary sometimes
depending on where you are but at the same time
like there's this i was watching this will encapsulate
how i feel i was watching an instagram video
and this fucking jackass has a camera At like
a glass door and it's a dog like scratching at
the door to get in. Oh, that's just the skinwalker
of the video. I know you're talking about. I'm
like, okay, first of all, skinwalkers aren't
fucking from here. That's not our shit. True.
That's not our legend. No, that's very far away.
So why are they, what are they crossing the Mississippi
to hang out in fucking Tennessee? Are you kidding?
Like, stop saying everything's a fucking skinwalker.
Maybe you left the window open and your dog jumped
out to chase a rabbit and then was like, oh shit,
I'm stuck outside now. And then she's like, people
in Appalachia don't go outside at night. Fuck
you, they don't. I feel like they're mostly outside
at night. I feel like that's like their thing.
Yeah, you go out and you go out and you have
a fire in your backyard. You go for walks in
the woods at night when like the moon's really
high so that you can like walk around and see.
I've been hiking at night. In the Appalachian
mountains. Like, yeah, shut the fuck up. She's
clearly not from here. You go out there, you
fucking clean your stills, make sure that the
copper is good. Make sure that the mash is set
right. She's got to be from fucking Kansas or
something where they don't even have mountains.
Yeah. I feel like I definitely have walked around
the Appalachian trail at night, but most of my
Appalachian experience is in Maine. So it's like
not what people think of when they think of.
Oh, so that's right. That's the, that's the white
man's version of the Appalachian. I don't know.
You don't get much whiter than the Appalachian
Mountains in West Virginia. Yeah, but in West
Virginia, you can't stop off trail to get a lobster
roll and get a pair of Sperry's. Well, you're
talking about a different kind of white. That's
fair. Remember that song by Blood for Blood?
Yeah, I do remember that song. I ain't your kind
of white, buddy. Oh, yeah. But to go off where
you're talking about, the Skinwalker thing, the
past five episodes, I promoted episodes that
I did without Sarge, but I did a whole Skinwalker
episode because my thing is that I didn't get
onto TikTok until fairly recently. And when I
went on there, I was obviously on the paranormal
side, cryptic side, and everything was a skinwalker.
Oh, this dog has a fucking weird grin skinwalker.
This weird deer is a skinwalker. And it's like,
first of all, you're in Michigan. That deer is
not a skinwalker. Second of all. skinwalkers
are witches that have perfected the art of transforming
into animals they don't half -ass it they're
not gonna yeah they're not gonna turn into a
deer and be like fucking like a homunculus like
yeah they're gonna be a deer they're not gonna
be But also that means that your dog that you
think is a skinwalker, that means your dog is
dead because skinwalkers can only transform into
an animal that they have the pelt and or the
feather of. So that means your dog had to have
been skinned. Yeah, birds get off easy in this
scenario. They do. But that means that the skinwalker,
quote unquote, has the skin of your dog. Yeah,
they're supposed to, when they're animals, they're
supposed to look good. compelling like skinwalker
videos obviously you know where it's like far
away and it's like a person walking and then
they like become an animal and like run away
like those ones are yeah but that's cool but
even then they kind of also make it look like
the cover of an animorphs book like it's not
no i i agree i get really frustrated when people
like steal shit from native american lore and
and turn it into some like hokey bullshit and
you're just like like uh like Anytime they tell
a ghost story, it's like, oh, it's a house built
on a Native American burial ground. It's like,
why does it have to be that? Why can't it just
be a regular fucking cemetery? Well, that's one
of the things that we do on our show is that
whenever we cover Native American folklore or
a cryptid or something like that, I always, you've
heard me do it at the beginning of all those
episodes ago. This is not a cryptid. This is
a very. real thing that's deep -seated in their
culture and you should stop calling it that and
then exactly we spend less time talking about
the actual entity and more time talking about
how everyone is fucking wrong about it yeah i
i think that it's just that ancient stuff is
creepy like it's just when something's ancient
it's creepy so like i think that there's a that's
why people tend to take from uh you know from
pre -european indigenous traditions because it's
just from a time that we can't really fully understand
but i feel this way about like i love any horror
movie that's about like the catholic church like
i because the catholic church is creepy for inherently
reasons it's creepy too but it's like one of
the main reasons just that it's old it's really
old and that's creepy you know yeah i just think
it like it gets so disrespectful because it's
like yeah Well, yeah, your house was built on
a Native American burial ground because you fucking
stole the land. I'm pretty sure all of our houses
are built on Native American burial grounds.
I don't think there's one that isn't. I feel
like the only story that hasn't been completely
tainted is the story of the Pukwudgies. And I'm
fine with that. I love those little guys. I hope
they don't change. Never change, Pukwudgies.
Never change. I feel like this is just – this
topic is something that I think is just – we're
going to see more and more of this type of thing
where it's like digital error in real life. I
think it's just – because that's just so much
of what we're seeing on the internet now. And
it's creepy on the internet. But when you imagine
like seeing like an AI image in real life and
it – just those ways that it's slightly off,
it's so creepy. And then you also like – you
think about like the concept of a tulpa. you
know when you kind of believe in something and
then it comes to life yeah well it's kind of
i mean that would i mean it's not even like the
the uncanniness of it it's that like people are
like this is like the not deers now technically
kind of like appalachian folklore like they've
kind of adopted it into their whole thing and
people are shitting on it because oh well it's
it started on the internet same way as like slenderman
or whatever but like This is how folklore starts.
Exactly. In 40 years, no one is going to know
that Tumblr user Will of the Witch came up with
the knot deer. In 40 years, this is going to
be another actual cryptid or another folklore
tale. it's it's this word of like we don't do
word of mouth stories anymore we don't do like
that's the thing about like modern stuff as opposed
to old stuff like it's really like the catholic
church is ridiculous but it's so old that you're
like i guess maybe this could have happened this
could be real we don't know whereas like you
know like the you know the the book of mormon
is like a lot easier to critique because it's
from not because it's not that old so there's
lots of records of like yeah yeah i agree and
i feel like that's uh i think it kind of in a
way makes it uh tougher for folklore to really
take a foothold because true you can trace back
where it comes from but also you know easier
because it's just really easy to but when you
also think about like how many social media uh
platforms go go dark you know like like myspace
something could have started on myspace then
myspace blipped out of existence and now we got
this fucking thing we can't trace who knows what
culture we got from friendster I forgot about
friends. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know,
I think so much of my core beliefs come from
angel fire. I learned everything I know from
geo cities. Yeah. So, but the other thing too,
is that like, we're not helping this at all,
but because over time, like when you go into
like this, like if I were to Google, not dear
10 bucks says, the original Tumblr post isn't
the first page. It's not the second page. It's
going to be the fourth page. And how many people
go fourth page on Google? You know what I mean?
Like never once. Exactly. Like you have to really
dig to, I have to really be. So I just saw Kevin
McDonald do a one man show sort of thing. We're
not one man show, but he didn't a rock opera.
And he talked about the story, but when he, him
and, and Dave Foley were on. the Joan Rivers
show when he was in the kids in the hall and
they got really drunk, just really drunk on the
show. And I was like trying to find a clip of
that. And I went four pages deep and could not
find it, but it only has to be, it has to be
something that I can't find, you know, from that.
But that's what I'm saying is like, people are
going to try and look up the origins of the not
to hear. And the thing is like the first few
pages are going to be like cryptid pages or pages
like our podcast where. We didn't talk about
it until we were 20 minutes in that it was fake.
You know what I mean? And also a search algorithm
isn't going to listen to the show and tell you
what we're talking about. They're going to see
not deer is like over time, even if we can trace
the origins as we can with really anything, because
if you give it, give it enough time over the
years, like the. The internet's flooded with
so much information. A lot of people think this
is real. It happened with Slender Man. I mean,
we all know it started as a Photoshop Friday,
but those two girls believed it was real. And
then she fucking murdered that one chick or tried
to, you know what I mean? Like, did you watch
that documentary about, well, that was a good
documentary. It was intense. But as I'm saying
is that like over time, like if the internet's
still going to exist, but it's going to be harder
and harder to find the original source material
for what people are talking about. So yeah, a
digital age folklore story. now we think it's
fucking goofy as shit but it's kind of fun but
people are actually holding holding on to this
and they they do believe that not deer are real
there are people i mean yeah maybe some of the
reddit posts and tiktoks are just people chasing
clout but there are some people that post that
think that they actually saw not deer and over
time it's gonna get all muddled and messy and
then even if people find the original template
post they're gonna think like oh this is Just
another post that was made about the not deer.
Well, and also like to play devil's advocate
too. Like that was the first time that it was,
it was written down in someplace we can trace.
But like you said that the person who originally
posted that said, even though they kind of exaggerated
that it was popular around there in Appalachia,
they like, it was more localized than that. uh
but but like you said that they were contacted
afterwards and they were like oh it's mainly
local but people did talk about it so like maybe
that it was a little thing i mean like or that
person could be making it up you don't really
or maybe we've willed it into existence like
a tulpa i feel like sarge really wants to do
an episode on tulpas so i think we might have
to do that at some point that would be i would
oh my god i would have so much fun with that
freddy krueger tulpa yeah tulpa yeah yeah especially
a new nightmare Oh, that was so good. Yeah, that
was so good. That was great. Rob, before we sign
off, this has been a great episode. Thank you
so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Is there anything you want to plug? Anything
you want to... This episode's coming out tomorrow,
so if you have anything happening between tomorrow
and the infinity... Yeah, I mean, I have albums
that you can listen to on the internet, so I
have a couple albums. Sadly, Sacrigen is the
one that I like the most. Uh, you need to listen
to that wherever you listen to audio on the internet.
You know, most people tend to listen to it on
Spotify. I don't know why I, every week I get
a, a notification from Apple music and that,
that between zero and four people have listened
to my album that month or that week or whatever.
Um, so I don't know why people don't seem to
listen to it any place except for, uh, Spotify,
but you can listen to it wherever you listen
to audio stuff. And if, uh, if, if they want
to find you on, Social media, where can they
find you? I'm going to put links to all this
in the episode description, but better for them
to hear it from the horse's mouth. Yeah, I'm
just at Rob Crean everywhere. Last name is Crean,
C -R -E -A -N. That's a weird name. Sounds like
so many words and is none of them. All right,
and Sarge, you got anything? What's up? I'm on
the internet and you can find Sarge the Destroyer.
it's that's that's what i use on everything so
that's how you find me um and if you find me
on x first i'm probably just gonna block you
um i got uh i got a coloring book sarge's supernormal
.com it's uh it's a coloring and activity book
to help you take out your frustrations on the
goddamn hellscape that we currently live in and
i starting to think that maybe i created a tulpa
you might have willed this into existence Yeah,
I might have done. That might be my fault. So
maybe just buy a bunch of them and then burn
them to release the spell. Yeah, or pretty soon
you might just need them for fuel to heat your
house. I'd have to start eating the paper. Yeah,
that'll feed the tapeworms. Excellent. So...
Hey! A couple things. First off... We were featured
in two magazines recently, Scars Zine and also
Parahouse Magazine. Both you can order online.
Just go to Parahouse Magazine. Google it. I don't
know the exact website. I think they sold out
of the print edition, but you can still get the
digital version. Luckily, Scars Zine, that's
print on demand. You just order that and it should.
ships to your house so that's pretty cool but
how badass is it that we were in a sold out magazine
that's pretty awesome i love that um you can
also if you want to follow us you follow us on
instagram at cryptic cocktail follow us on tiktok
cryptic cocktail party we also have a what's
it called oh patreon we have patreon yep three
dollars a month that's just general support for
the show or for seven dollars a month you can
see unedited video episodes uh so you this episode's
almost an hour it'll probably be way shorter
than that audio wise but all right so with that
out of the way normally sarge would say goodbye
and i love it to the audience but rob do you
undo the honors of saying goodbye and i love
you to the audience sure uh goodbye everyone
that's listening and i and both of these guys
love you