1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:25,560 Hey everybody. 2 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,760 Welcome back to another episode of crypto cocktail party show. 3 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,080 We have a few drinks, share a few laughs, take a dive into the unknown. 4 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,240 I'm your host Dave joined as always, but my good friend, Sarge the destroyer. 5 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,280 How you doing handsome? 6 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,320 I should have known that was going to be the first thing I just needed to. 7 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:48,320 I, so for those of you who, who don't know why I did that, I just got a sound 8 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,280 board, a mixing board or whatever. 9 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:56,440 Um, because my microphone wasn't great and I wanted to up my game a little bit. 10 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,040 And then I discovered that I could change my voice and now I'm going to 11 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,760 abuse this shit out of that ability. 12 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,680 It's going to be such a pain in the dick for me. 13 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,680 I already said, I'll always warn you what I'm going to do it. 14 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,280 Oh, well, I appreciate that, but, but, uh, but how you doing? 15 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:13,680 Well, how's, how's life? 16 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:14,640 How are things? 17 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:16,240 I'm phenomenal. 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:17,240 I just had a birthday. 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,880 I turned, I turned 43 on Friday. 20 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:21,440 Yeah. 21 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:22,640 Old fuck dude. 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:22,960 Yeah. 23 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,000 I'm old as shit. 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,720 So old, too old to, I mean, some might say, yeah, I don't know who I say. 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,000 I'm going to say it. 26 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:31,720 I'm too old. 27 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:33,800 I say that now and I'm almost 38. 28 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,440 So it's not like, it can't really, it just feels like too much. 29 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,640 It's too much. 30 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,480 I feel like once you get past the age of 33, is this like when everything 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,400 just kind of starts like steady decline? 32 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:44,640 Yeah. 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,680 You, you really just like, once you hit like 33, you just start buying more 34 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,880 and more ibuprofen and ice packs. 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:51,480 Oh yeah. 36 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,080 Dude, I go through ibuprofen like the Skittles dude. 37 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:54,240 Yeah. 38 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,480 I live on ice packs. 39 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,080 I just, I'm constantly re one joint in my body always has an ice pack on it. 40 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:00,600 Yeah. 41 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:01,360 It's not ideal. 42 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,640 Don't use use word of advice for the kids out there. 43 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:04,240 Don't grow up. 44 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:05,000 Yeah. 45 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:06,080 Simple as that. 46 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,920 I think it's, you know, emotionally and physically just don't do either of them. 47 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:14,520 Just be, I mean, the cool thing is I now own all the toys. 48 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,520 My parents wouldn't buy me when I was younger. 49 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,800 That is the upside of being with a full time job. 50 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,400 It's kind of worth the effort that goes into it. 51 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:23,120 I agree. 52 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:23,720 I agree. 53 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,480 Sarge, it's our first episode of 2025, I think. 54 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:30,840 Hot damn. 55 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:31,240 I know. 56 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:31,640 Right? 57 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,240 Wild to think that what a roller coaster of a year 2024 was. 58 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,280 Roller coaster, absolute roller coaster. 59 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:37,840 So good. 60 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,800 You know, we got sponsored, we got an award. 61 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,080 We got an award, which is insane to me. 62 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,840 But man, I still don't believe it. 63 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,640 I feel like all of this is just a prank. 64 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:47,920 That's like an elaborate prank. 65 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:50,040 Someone's like pulling a really elaborate prank. 66 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,200 It's like that episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where they make D a famous 67 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:55,640 stand up comedian. 68 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,400 Yes, it is a hundred percent how I feel that this is going. 69 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,000 But yeah, so thanks everyone for an awesome 2024. 70 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:04,440 It's been wild. 71 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:04,920 That's great. 72 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:06,080 And it's only just been getting better. 73 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:06,960 We had awesome guests. 74 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:07,920 We had fucking Jordan. 75 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:12,480 We had fucking Jonathan from Latinos Against Spooky shit. 76 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,160 Like it's just been great. 77 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,360 And hopefully 2025 just fucking. 78 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,360 We're just going to keep going. 79 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,240 We're going to keep and if anybody can get in touch with Aaron from Ghost Adventures, 80 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,960 tell him I need him on an episode. 81 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:25,600 So many questions. 82 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:31,840 It's funny you say because I actually emailed Steve from Ghost Hunters to see if he would 83 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,000 be even better. 84 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,720 So I did reach out to Aaron just recently, actually. 85 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,840 I found him on Instagram, but I don't know if he's going to I don't know if he's going 86 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:39,360 to respond. 87 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,000 Do you know why? 88 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:40,960 Fucking Nick, dude. 89 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:41,880 Nick, what's his name? 90 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:42,600 I forget his name. 91 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,240 He's not on there anymore. 92 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,000 He was off there in like 2014. 93 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,160 They had a falling out. 94 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,880 Yeah. But now he's a rapper and it's fucking great. 95 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:50,280 Yeah. 96 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,200 Is it raps about ghosts? 97 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,880 I just want to hear him rhyme about ectoplasm. 98 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,920 It's pretty it's gnarly. 99 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,840 My my buddy's podcast, Cool Parents podcast. 100 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,720 They cover a lot of Ghost Adventures stuff, not because they're a paranormal podcast, 101 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,480 so just because it's fucking ridiculous and it's so funny. 102 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,080 And Nick Nick's raps come up quite often. 103 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:12,720 I'm going to look this up. 104 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,800 I'm going to send it to everyone I know. 105 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:15,640 It's so good. 106 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:20,880 Yeah. So I today's episode, our first episode, 25. 107 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,480 I think laid back, laid back, cool, fun, nothing crazy. 108 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,400 Let's ease into the new year. 109 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,000 I feel like is a good idea. 110 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,920 Right. It's a it's a palate cleanser. 111 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,320 Yeah, pretty much. 112 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,520 So today, Sarge, we're going to be heading to the great state of Maine, the way life 113 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,520 should be. Oh, yeah. 114 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,120 To the Allagash Wilderness region of the state. 115 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:45,800 More trees, less assholes. 116 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,520 So are you familiar with the Allagash Wilderness, that region? 117 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,400 Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 118 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,680 So for those of you who don't know or unfamiliar with the Allagash Wilderness, 119 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,120 it's one of those places where you're either going to have like one of the most 120 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,200 peaceful, beautiful camping trips of your life or you're going to end up as a 121 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,320 protagonist in a very specific genre of horror movie. 122 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:06,640 It's like, yes. Yeah. 123 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,160 One of those beautiful but terrifying places. 124 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,360 Yeah. Like deliverance. 125 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Deliverance is an accurate representation of all of the rural 126 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,280 east parts of the of the country. 127 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:23,320 Exactly. So it's essentially 92 miles of just like dense forests, 128 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,160 glassy lakes and pristine rivers. 129 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,000 And it's literally in the middle of nowhere. 130 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:32,200 I think I read I'm not sure this is, but within the Allagash Wilderness area, 131 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,120 I think it's less than 200 people live there. 132 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:37,800 Like it's remote. 133 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,280 Yeah, that makes sense. 134 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:43,160 Now, unfortunately for today's subjects, their trip up to the Allagash played out 135 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,960 more like the second scenario more than the first as far as their camping trip 136 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,160 went this week. 137 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,160 We're going to be covering the Allagash abductions. 138 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:52,680 Is this something you're familiar with? 139 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,800 No, not at all. I'm very excited. 140 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,200 Are you? I can hear your voice. 141 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:58,200 I'm turned on. 142 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,440 And just so we're clear, this is this is like an alien abduction story. 143 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,040 We didn't like switch genres to true crime. 144 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,240 Not yet, anyways. 145 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:07,240 Not yet. Not yet. 146 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:12,240 Once we run out of orange, multi-armed cryptids. 147 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,240 So all right, let's dive into this, bitch. 148 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:15,240 Are you ready? 149 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:16,240 Yeah, let's fucking do it. 150 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:17,240 I'm so excited. 151 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,240 I love alien abductions up here because there's nothing better than somebody 152 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:26,240 with like a thick New England accent trying to describe constellations. 153 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,240 Dude, they fucking had me right near Alpha Centauri. 154 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,240 I swear to God. 155 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:32,240 Oh, yeah. 156 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,240 Don't you know, you don't go up there. 157 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,240 That's where you get abducted. 158 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,240 I can't get there from here. 159 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,240 No, back in the day, this is all orange groves. 160 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,240 I don't know. 161 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:41,240 Fuck it. All right. 162 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,240 This was one of my favorite things to say in a main accent. 163 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,240 Oh, yeah. Back then, it's all orange groves. 164 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,240 Fozzy, I could say. 165 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,240 In a main accent, that's a funny thing to say. 166 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:55,240 And I don't know. 167 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:56,240 I agree. I agree. 168 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,240 All right. So in August of 1976, four buddies decided to go on a two week 169 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,240 camping trip up in the Allagash. 170 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,240 Wilderness and I said a little cheat filled with hiking, canoeing, fishing, 171 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,240 maybe some smooching. 172 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:09,240 I don't know. 173 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,240 Oh, just four dudes enjoying the great outdoors and being one with nature 174 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,240 and possibly with each other. 175 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,240 No, I'm just kidding. 176 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,240 It's not gay if you're in the woods. 177 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,240 It's not gay if you're in the woods. 178 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,240 That's the rules. 179 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:19,240 Yeah. 180 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:20,240 The group consisted of one. 181 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,240 Maybe now regret saying what I said, because this is a brothers, Jim and Jack 182 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,240 Weiner and their I mean, it is rural Maine. 183 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,240 And their two friends, Charlie Foltz and contender for Rural Maine. 184 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,240 And contender for best name that we've covered on the show so far in 2025. 185 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:37,240 Chuck Rack. 186 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:38,240 Yes. 187 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,240 Chuck Rack has a take no bullshit attitude. 188 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,240 Chuck is wild. 189 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,240 Now, all four of them were art students from Massachusetts who decided to take 190 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,240 this trip to just, you know, get away from it all to the hustle and bustle of 191 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:57,240 fucking getting high and discussing the difference between Monet and Manet. 192 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,240 But I get it. You know, like, 193 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,240 I have a ton of friends that went to art school in Boston. 194 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,240 Art school can be stressful. 195 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,240 And if anyone can survive two weeks in the most remote parts of Maine, it's 196 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,240 definitely four dudes from like MassArt or Mocha. 197 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,240 Like, yeah, it's going to be trouble. 198 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:14,240 It's going to be a little bit of trouble. 199 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:19,240 Yeah. So the first few days out in the wilderness, business as usual, just your 200 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:25,240 run of the mill boilerplate camp and trip with your boys, drink beers, fishing, 201 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,240 all that stuff that is until the second night. 202 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,240 Now, Jim noticed a strange bright object in the sky. 203 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,240 He said it appeared for about 30 seconds or so and then vanished. 204 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,240 The group didn't really think too much of it and chalked it up to like a plane 205 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,240 or a satellite, which it makes me think that this didn't say, but this means 206 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,240 that the ball of light was probably moving across the sky and not just 207 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,240 stationary because I feel like if it was just a stationary ball of light and 208 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,240 then it just went away, you wouldn't assume it was a plane or a satellite. 209 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,240 Right. Unless you were like maybe behind the plane, like watching it fly off 210 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,240 into the distance, but then then the light would change. 211 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,240 So I don't know. I get everything I just said. 212 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,240 Yeah. They weren't like in a panic over it or anything. 213 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,240 And they just went about their night. So it wasn't like some wild, nothing crazy 214 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,240 happened. Yeah. Yeah. 215 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,240 That is until two nights later on August 20th, 1976. 216 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,240 This is when shit got really real, real quick. 217 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,240 The four dudes paddled their canoes out onto Eagle Lake to do some night fishing, 218 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:24,240 but not before making their campfire like as big like a basically made a bonfire 219 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,240 just so that the way they could see. Yeah. So they could see. Right. 220 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,240 So that's a smart play, actually. Yeah. They stoked it up real big. 221 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,240 Now the sky is clear. Stars are out. Everything is calm. 222 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:42,240 That is until it wasn't suddenly Chuck soon followed by the rest of the men sees 223 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,240 this massive light in the sky. And it's not just like hovering above the tree 224 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,240 line. Like this thing is moving towards them and at a speed that is not 225 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:56,240 comfortable. Oh, no. You think their first instincts after, you know, 226 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,240 they all finally noticed this thing would to be like, get the fuck out of there. 227 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,240 Right. Yeah. No, they just would be my response. They just kept fishing. 228 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,240 And then Charlie, arguably the dumbest of the group, decides he's going to take 229 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,240 his flashlight and like shine like SOS at it. Oh, God. Yeah. 230 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:18,240 I mean, that's that's really a great idea. Flash SOS at any aircraft while 231 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,240 you're on a remote lake. That's always going to end well. Yeah. 232 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,240 Now, I'm sure he realizes now in hindsight that this was a bad move, 233 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,240 because whatever the object was, it decided it was going to shoot its own 234 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,240 beam of light down at them. And that's when Chuck was like, guys, we we got to 235 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:37,240 start moving like now. Time to go. The the beam of light followed the men 236 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,240 along the water as they hurriedly paddled their way back to shore. But the beam 237 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,240 of light only got closer and closer until the beam finally caught up with them. 238 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,240 And then, bam, the men were back on shore at their campsite watching the light 239 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,240 vanish into the sky. The fact that the men don't really actually remember 240 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,240 reaching shore, but we're now back at camp, didn't really seem to phase them. 241 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,240 Each one individually probably assume that the fear and adrenaline of being 242 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,240 chased by a rogue light made them temporarily black out or something. 243 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,240 Or because it was so hectic in the moment that they simply just didn't realize 244 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:12,240 they had hit shore because they got they stood up out of the canoes and then 245 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,240 watched the light vanish. They must not have really been focused on that part, 246 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,240 because not going to lie, that sounds fucking terrifying. The weirdest part to 247 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,240 them was that the well stoked fire that they had lit only minutes ago was now 248 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:29,240 completely burnt out, suggesting that they had been gone for several hours. 249 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,240 But dudes being dudes, they're like, that's weird. 250 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:39,240 Then this went to bed and then proceeded to spend another 10 days in the woods. 251 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,240 Wow. No fear whatsoever. 252 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,240 No fucks given. Pretty good for some art students, I feel like, because if that 253 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,240 was me, I grew up in that area, I'd still be like, yeah, we're going to go. 254 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,240 Just done. Now, they didn't experience anything else in the woods those last 255 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,240 10 days. And when they returned home, they told their family and friends about 256 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,240 their weird encounter with the lights, but nobody believed them. And they were 257 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,240 just went about their lives. Yeah. No one ever believes you until. 258 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:12,240 Yeah. Now that is until 1988. Jack started having strange nightmares about 259 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,240 the four men sitting on a bench naked and being just absolutely terrified. 260 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:21,240 And these creepy humanoid beings with giant black eyes. It was around this time 261 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,240 that Jim, Jack's brother, suffered a fall that triggered seizures, which caused 262 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,240 him to start having visions of alien visitors levitating in his bedroom, as well 263 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,240 as the same strange nightmares as his brother. Now, at some point, I believe it 264 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,240 was around the same time the four men are hanging out at a party, just shooting 265 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,240 the shit. And they started discussing the the incident on Eagle Lake. It's then 266 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,240 that they realized that all four of them, not just Jack and Jim, are having 267 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:52,240 basically the same nightmares. So they all decided it was time for some answers 268 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,240 to what's going on. So Jim reaches out to UFO researcher Raymond Fowler to try 269 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:03,240 this hip new thing, regressive hypnosis. Oh, good. I just want to pause for a 270 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,240 second and talk about Raymond Fowler. He's the guy who pretty much like he 271 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,240 literally wrote the book on this story. He was a well known UFO researcher back 272 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:17,240 in the day, authoring books on some of the most famous UFO and alien abduction 273 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,240 cases like the Betty and Barney Hill abduction. So he wasn't like just some 274 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,240 UFO enthusiast. Like he was like a meticulous, dedicated guy. And he really 275 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,240 threw himself at these cases to try and get to the bottom of these stories. He 276 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,240 was already well established at the time, like super credible. So when these guys 277 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,240 came to him, like they knew like he was their guy. But I don't know what his 278 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:42,240 credentials were for like fucking around in people's brains. You know what I mean? 279 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,240 I don't recommend it if you don't have any credentials. Yeah, well, whatever. But 280 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,240 anyway, so under the guidance of Fowler, all four of the men agreed to go under 281 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,240 separate regressive hypnosis set. I can't say this without stumbling to go under 282 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,240 separate regressive hypnosis sessions to try and uncover what had happened during 283 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,240 those missing hours. And boy, did they uncover some fucking stuff. Are you ready 284 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:10,240 for this shit? No, I'm so ready. I'm I'm very excited. This is actually so 285 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:15,240 hypnotic regression is actually something that I know a little bit about 286 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:20,240 not only for researching the episode, but also just in my ancillary research into 287 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:27,240 the satanic panic. So I'm a bit of a fan of pseudosciences that don't actually 288 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,240 work and actually cause bigger problems. Don't get your skeptic hat on just yet. 289 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,240 Let me let's you know, there's a time and place for this. All right. Sorry. I'm 290 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:40,240 just throbbing right now. I'm ready. So each of the men described being taken 291 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,240 aboard a craft where they were separated immediately upon entry. Classic alien 292 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,240 move. They were led into different rooms that they described as being cold, 293 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,240 metallic and eerily sterile. There, the aliens began their experiments. Now, 294 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,240 what kind of experiments you may be asking? But stuff always just the 295 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,240 stuff. It's super awesome, highly invasive experiments you'd expect from 296 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:06,240 aliens. Needles were inserted inserted into their heads, their arms, spines, 297 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:12,240 dick and balls. Yep. Yeah, sounds about right. The being seem particularly 298 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,240 interested in collecting reproductive material. They collected semen, blood. 299 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,240 They even scraped off skin samples with what looked like a metallic curved 300 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,240 planar that they put on their chest. You know, like a planar, like a what? Yeah. 301 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,240 Yeah. No, I know what you're talking about. At least that's like how I 302 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,240 interpreted what was being described. Yeah. No, no matter what you're picturing, 303 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,240 it's probably just as worse. Yeah. No, they described the creatures performing 304 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,240 these tasks as having large black almond shaped eyes, spindly limbs and grayish 305 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,240 skin. The beings never spoke to the men directly. Instead, they quote unquote 306 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:49,240 talked directly into their minds. The telepathy. OK, they were saying stuff 307 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,240 like you will not be harmed and this is necessary. Necessary for what? You may be 308 00:15:54,240 --> 00:16:00,240 asking. They did not clarify. No, they never do. They never do. They're like 309 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:06,240 this is necessary. Now bend over and spread them cheeks. Boy, no, I think I 310 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,240 think one of the creepiest parts is so did the men who experienced it was just 311 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,240 like how like detached the being seem like there's no motion, but there's also 312 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:20,240 no malice and also no no empathy like they just purely clinical detachment from 313 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,240 their subjects, which makes sense when you think about it, because like when 314 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,240 human beings are testing on animals, we're like, don't worry about this. But 315 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:33,240 we have no idea. You know, when they shoot an animal with a tranquilizer 316 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,240 dart, like I'm sure it hurts them. I'm sure they don't enjoy it. Oh, no. But 317 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,240 also like if you're just seeing something as a scientific subject, you're not 318 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:45,240 thinking about. Yeah, no, it's yeah. But anyway, so that's what they remember. 319 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,240 That's what they got from this whole regressive therapy thing. Super fucked up. 320 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,240 I would want to forget it, too. And I honestly think that if I came out of the 321 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,240 hypnosis, like I would just be like, fuck you, Fowler, like maybe forget again. 322 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,240 Like now they just have to live with that now. Yeah. Thanks for the help, you 323 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,240 dick. Right. Like what do you do? Like now you have to go to like actual real 324 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,240 therapy to like get over it. Right. No, you just I don't need this shit in my 325 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,240 life. I was better off not remembering. I can deal with one or two nightmares 326 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,240 every couple of months. Yeah. So basically. So that was that was their story. 327 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:24,240 But I mean, that is if we believe their story, you know, and why should we? 328 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,240 Well, for starters, they all describe the same exact events during their 329 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,240 hypnosis sessions down to like the smallest details. And they were conducted 330 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,240 separately. So it's not like they could bounce ideas off of one another. Second, 331 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,240 they all also went underwent polygraph tests. Now, I know polygraph tests are 332 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,240 like super fucking foolproof, but it's worth noting that not one of them showed 333 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,240 any signs of deception when they were recounting their experiences. And then 334 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,240 another reason why it's kind of believable is their artwork, especially 335 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,240 gyms. Remember, these are fucking art kids, by the way. Right. Right. Right. 336 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:01,240 Art students. It is hauntingly vivid. And if you get a chance to look it up, 337 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,240 definitely do. But his sketches are detailed, like the bees got every vein 338 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:12,240 on his testicles. The beings, the craft and even like the instruments they used 339 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,240 on them. It gives the story some kind of like a really unsettling, like 340 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,240 tangibility to it. Like it's not just some like abstract idea. Like the 341 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:27,240 incident clearly left a mark on him, but. Not everyone believes this story, and 342 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,240 there are always going to be skeptics. Some argue that what the foreman 343 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,240 experience could have been natural phenomena. For instance, the lights in the 344 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,240 sky may have been ball lightning. Some also suggest that it could also have 345 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,240 been experimental aircraft. Now, I personally don't buy either of those. 346 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:48,240 Ball lightning is crazy rare, especially in Maine. It was obviously swamp gas. 347 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:53,240 And the the Allagash, like it's so fucking remote that there's no way 348 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:59,240 there's an experimental Air Force base out there. Yeah. I mean, why? Why would 349 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,240 they do it there? Why wouldn't they do it over the desert where it's flat? So if 350 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,240 the plane goes down, it's easy to find. Yeah. It also doesn't explain like the 351 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,240 missing time or the vivid memories uncovered during their hypnosis, which 352 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:14,240 brings us to our next skeptic viewpoint. Regressive hypnosis. Sarge, you're kind 353 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:20,240 of like a mini expert on this. Oh, man. You want to cover this one? I am what it 354 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:25,240 is and why it's kind of bullshit. OK, so hypnotic regression is a practice of 355 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,240 hypnotizing patients to access repressed memories. So practitioners believe that 356 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,240 by putting patients into a state of hypnosis, the typical inhibitions of our 357 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,240 mind are weakened enough to access the more remote areas of memory. So to 358 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,240 understand this type of therapy, it's also important to first understand why 359 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,240 someone would want to access these memories like you actually touched on a 360 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,240 little bit like I would rather just not remember this. Yeah, just let me forget. 361 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,240 Yeah, but not not to Sarge plane here, but humans use memory to inform future 362 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:00,240 decision making. Obviously, we all know that. Yeah. And this is an easy way for 363 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,240 our minds to help navigate, for instance, the best routes to get to a place that 364 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,240 we've already been to. Like, don't go this way. You know, there's a swamp in 365 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,240 the way you're going to get wet. Go this way instead, for instance, you don't 366 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:17,240 want to go down there. You can't get there from here. Get that from well. So 367 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,240 but this also helps us to survive. So for instance, if we touch a stove when it's 368 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,240 on the unpleasant memory, the pain that we receive the burn will remind us not 369 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,240 to touch the oven in the future. Natural Institute of Health reports that 370 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,240 negative memories are often more vivid than positive or neutral ones. And this 371 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,240 is why most people can remember even mild insults with a lot of clarity, but 372 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,240 can't remember what they had for breakfast yesterday. Yeah, explains a lot 373 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:45,240 of my shower thoughts. Yeah, yeah, mine too. I mean, I'm really trying not to 374 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:51,240 think of you in the shower, but it still comes up. Well, it is established that 375 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,240 negative memories can reinforce positive behaviors. Some negative memories are 376 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,240 also so traumatic that our brains are believed to retain them, but 377 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,240 unconsciously locked them away in an effort to protect us from vividly 378 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:08,240 reliving the trauma repressed memories. Now you said believe because I I should 379 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,240 probably should have done some research on this too, but I heard a thing that 380 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,240 like repressed memories aren't even really a thing. So I'll get there. I'll 381 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:19,240 get there. You're not far off. So some examples of what could be a repressed 382 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,240 memory would be experiences like childhood abuse, violent crime, natural 383 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,240 disasters, things like that. Yeah, the problem with so called repressed 384 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,240 memories is that while victims do not clearly remember the memory itself, our 385 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,240 bodies would still have the physiological response to some of the 386 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,240 circumstances that existed during the event in which the memory was created, 387 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,240 which could trigger stress, anxiety and panic. These circumstances could be 388 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,240 different smells, different sounds or even something as simple as a strong 389 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,240 breeze. In my case as a veteran with PTSD, I'm triggered by the smell of 390 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,240 metal shipping containers, large crowds in the area around the finish line of 391 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,240 the Boston Marathon. But because I do not suffer from repressed memories, I 392 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,240 can take steps to mitigate that. However, with people who have repressed 393 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,240 memories, they won't know what's going to trigger them until it's too late. 394 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,240 It's believed that accessing these repressed memories will give therapists 395 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,240 the opportunity to treat the symptoms and potentially desensitize the patient 396 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,240 to more common triggers. While there are many practitioners of this form of 397 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:19,240 therapy, there are just as many, if not more detractors. The argument against 398 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,240 repressed memory itself is pretty complex. There's a whole rabbit hole you 399 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,240 can fall down if you're so inclined. I'm just going to try to simplify it with 400 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:30,240 three main points. First one, memories are copies of copies of copies. Science 401 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,240 now believes that when we are remembering something, we're actually just making a 402 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,240 new memory based on the details we retained from the old memories. In that 403 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,240 practice, some of the clarity is lost. So the emotion remains strong associated 404 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,240 with the memory itself, but the memory becomes more an amalgamation than a 405 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,240 verbal retelling. So this is why an eyewitness testimony alone can be a 406 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,240 hindrance to a case. Think of like the cross-examination scenes from my cousin 407 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,240 Vinnie. The research into repressed memory found that people are more likely 408 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:04,240 just forgetting things than actually repressing them. And evolutionarily, this 409 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,240 kind of makes a lot of sense because if there was a super 410 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,240 traumatic event, why would you mind hide them from you? It would only 411 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,240 protect you to remember it. So you would have a much better chance of surviving. 412 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,240 So if you remember why there's a strong breeze, then you know why it's making you 413 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,240 panic and why you should avoid it. And then finally, the instance of repressed 414 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:32,240 memory, purely anecdotal, there's no way to measure a repressed memory with any 415 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,240 sort of reliability. Now, the arguments against hypnotic regression are also 416 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:43,240 kind of complex, so I'll simplify with really just this one kind of big bullet 417 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,240 point I put together. So hypnosis is an effective treatment for behaviors 418 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,240 because under hypnosis, the subject of the hypnotism is highly open to 419 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,240 suggestion. It can help people overcome undesirable habits or encourage people 420 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,240 to engage in desirable habits. However, even skilled, well-meaning hypnotists 421 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,240 are incapable of telling real memories from false ones. So when they use 422 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,240 hypnosis to bring up these repressed memories, they don't know what they're 423 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,240 bringing up. They don't know if it's real or not. And the reason for that is that 424 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,240 repressed memories are, you're almost in like a dreamlike state when you're 425 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,240 under hypnosis. It's not the same as a dream, but it's very similar. Your mind 426 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,240 kind of... Sounds kind of like a sleep paralysis kind of thing. Exactly. 427 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,240 For instance, what was experienced during the hypnotic regression sessions 428 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:34,240 during the satanic panic of the late 70s and mid 90s through the mid 90s is that 429 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,240 many of these repressed memories were actually just false memories 430 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,240 inadvertently created by the hypnosis practitioner because hypnosis is so 431 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,240 closely linked to dreaming. I was going to say, this is one of the big things 432 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,240 is that when they're under, when they're in this state, they can... The person 433 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,240 doing the hypnosis can kind of ask leading questions and kind of give you 434 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,240 leading... Exactly. And then you just kind of form that shit in your own brain. 435 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,240 And then they're like, oh shit, see, I was right. Which is why I'm not really 436 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,240 super swayed by the fact that all of their stories matched up because of course 437 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,240 their stories matched up. Yeah. It's the same guiding principle. Exactly. 438 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,240 The one common denominator between all of them is like, he could be like, if 439 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:19,240 Jack was under and he's like, no, Jim saw this. Did you see this as well? 440 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,240 He's like, oh shit, yeah, I definitely saw the dude getting blamed a lot. 441 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,240 Yeah. And it becomes a sort of yes and situation. So the therapist may not 442 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,240 always be trying to implant memories. They may just be trying to get to the 443 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,240 bottom of the truth when you've got a true believer like this guy who is a 444 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:41,240 UFO researcher. I don't think he did the actual thing, but he was present in 445 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,240 the room. So he might've been... Yeah. So he's probably yes ending his whole way 446 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,240 through it. And back in the 70s and 80s, they really didn't fully understand how 447 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:55,240 suggestible people were in hypnotic regressions. A good example of the 448 00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,240 satanic panic style hypnotic regression is a book called Michelle Remembers. 449 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,240 Oh fuck. This book was written by a highly unethical therapist who with the 450 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,240 help of his patient uncovered alleged satanic ritual abuse only for the accused 451 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,240 of the abuse to refute these claims with undeniable proof, such as locations 452 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,240 that supposedly these crimes were committed in, never existing. It was, it 453 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,240 was, it was a, there's a Martin preschool case. You're thinking of the 454 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,240 McMartin trial, which happened in California. Michelle Remembers was a 455 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,240 Canadian story. Okay. But there was also kind of the same thing where they were 456 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,240 saying that underneath the school, there was like a bunch of tunnels and stuff. 457 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:39,240 They dug up the school and didn't find nothing. It wasn't there. But also, so in 458 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,240 Michelle Remembers, another highlight, Satan actually makes a physical 459 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,240 appearance apparently, which is just bad shit insane. And as for the unethical 460 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,240 behavior, just so you don't think I'm trying to ad hom this guy, I want you to 461 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,240 fully understand aside from exploiting as highly suggestible patient, the 462 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,240 therapist, Dr. Lawrence Pasder later married this same patient, the subject of 463 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,240 the book while continuing to treat her and promote himself as an expert in 464 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:10,240 satanic ritual abuse, a thing with which never actually existed. So that is why I 465 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,240 am not a huge believer in satanic regression. I mean, I'm hypnotic 466 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,240 regression. It's just insane. But that makes you think that maybe you planted 467 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:25,240 in her mind that he, she loved him. Yes. Yes. That is what I believe. Yes. 468 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:31,240 Because she was, she was basically 18 or 20, I think at the time he started this 469 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,240 and he was in his like forties, he was married with kids. Maybe he was just, 470 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:41,240 maybe he was just hot as hot doc, dude. He was just a hot doc. He's a doctor's 471 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:52,240 daddy. Yeah. So basically the skeptics saying that regression therapy is 472 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:57,240 bullshit. And I agree a hundred percent. I don't, I think that the whole repressed 473 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:03,240 memory thing is very false memory adjacent to the whole thing. Like, so I 474 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:09,240 agree with that. And they actually say that people are really bad at 475 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:15,240 determining whether they have a false memory or, or a repressed memory. Oh, I'm 476 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,240 sure that half my memories aren't real. I think I made up most, most of my 477 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,240 backstory is probably all fake. I've no idea. I can't tell you how many times I 478 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,240 remembered something and then only to talk to somebody who was there and they 479 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,240 were like, no, it didn't happen that way. Yeah. It's just, it's how our brains 480 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,240 work. Yeah. I, but the thing is I believe to remember the things that I want to 481 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,240 remember. Yes. I'll try to remember the more positive version of the story, 482 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,240 regardless of who remembered it. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not saying that I'm 483 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:47,240 skeptical of this abduction. Honestly. I actually kind of liked the idea of it. I 484 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:53,240 want to hear more about it, but in terms of the hypnosis aspect of it, pure 485 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:58,240 bullshit, full on. Yeah. So the other things that the skeptics are saying 486 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:04,240 besides, you know, natural phenomenon, fake fucking military air bases in the 487 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,240 Northern Maine and the regression therapy is that some are saying that this case 488 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:16,240 just may be all made up. Like, I mean, but that's always a good possibility, but 489 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,240 that's also like what every fucking skeptic says. I mean, like if that was the 490 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:25,240 case, like why stick to the story for decades? Why go through all the troubles 491 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,240 of like the hypnosis, the polygraph tests and endure like the scrutiny of public 492 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,240 opinion, which basically what we're kind of doing now doesn't seem really worth 493 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,240 it. But also this theory kind of, it doesn't help that the fact that Chuck 494 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,240 decades later would claim that parts of his story were exaggerated and then 495 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:48,240 recanted much of his experience. He also said the men were highest block before 496 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,240 going, I was really hoping it would eventually get to that point because I 497 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,240 was, I was pretty confident that somebody was high, but they, but they, they said 498 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,240 that they, they smoked a bunch of hash, which I don't think makes you hallucinate. 499 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,240 I'm pretty sure it's basically just like weed resin is like it's, it's weed. It's 500 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,240 cannabis. I'm not super familiar with hash. The one time I smoked it. I, I 501 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,240 didn't hallucinate. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Not really familiar with what it 502 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,240 is. Somebody just handed it to me and I, it's nothing. It's not like, so they 503 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,240 weren't like fucking like tripping on acid, which is kind of weird because it 504 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,240 was the seventies. You think that would be the case, but no, they did. There's 505 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,240 a bunch of hash like before they went on the lake that night. And then he, he 506 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,240 claimed that this is also part of like a get rich quick scheme. And the four of 507 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,240 them thought that they could make a pretty penny by telling their story. Okay. 508 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:46,240 But, but he also still claims that he did see a craft and he said that he did feel 509 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,240 like they were being watched while out there. And so I don't, so I don't know 510 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,240 what his deal is, but the other three men still defend their stories and they no 511 00:30:54,240 --> 00:31:02,240 longer speak to Chuck. So, okay. Yeah. So maybe, I mean, I don't know. I think, I 512 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:08,240 think there's a really good possibility that the hypnotic regression therapy 513 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,240 probably implanted a little bit of this story. So for somebody like Chuck, you 514 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,240 know, they'd lost some time. They were smoking hash. So if it's anything like 515 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,240 weed, it's going to kill a good portion of time. Yeah. I've certainly smoked 516 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,240 enough where I brain dumped an entire evening. Yeah. And then you're like, why, 517 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,240 how the fuck did I end up on my couch eating ice cream? Exactly. Like if you ever, 518 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,240 if you ever like gone out with friends and smoked and then you just, your memory 519 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,240 turns back on and you're in your house and you're like, I hope to God I didn't 520 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:48,240 drive. Right. But it's also like, it seems like, or maybe Chuck's brain is just 521 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,240 more like he's more, he's not as susceptible to hypnosis as the others. And 522 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,240 then he's so like, he realized like, wait, like this didn't fucking happen. Like 523 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,240 it's actually interesting that you say that maybe, maybe he was yes. And the 524 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,240 other guy was like, I don't remember if I was like, I don't remember that. I 525 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,240 don't remember. I was like, I was like, I don't remember that night. Maybe that 526 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,240 day that is what happened. And maybe I just made out with those two brothers. 527 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,240 Yeah. Maybe I don't know needle in my Dick and balls. Maybe they were just 528 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:21,240 sounding me. Exactly. Exactly. That could be the case. So maybe Chuck is the one 529 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,240 who's like, no, you guys listen, this is not a thing. And they're like, no, fuck 530 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,240 you, Chuck. We remember now. And he's like, all right, fine. Whatever. Like a 531 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,240 whole experiment in college, Chuck, you were at art school in Boston in the 532 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,240 seventies. I mean, come on, there's nothing wrong with it. You drive a truck 533 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:40,240 once. It doesn't make you a truck driver and no one's judging you. You know, I, I 534 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:46,240 don't care if you guys got it on like, yeah, you try and stuff out. But, but 535 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,240 whether you believe it or not, the Allagash abductions, like they remain one 536 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,240 of the most iconic cases in UFO lore. Like, well, it may not be like as well 537 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,240 known as some of the others. It is often cited alongside like the Travis Walton 538 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,240 fire in the sky. Yeah. I was thinking a lot of the correlations with Travis 539 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,240 Walton story. Kind of like that. And then also like the Betty and Barney Hill 540 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,240 abduction as like, this is one of the most credible and chilling encounters, I 541 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,240 guess you could say. I love that story too. I mean, we've talked about this 542 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,240 before, but I love going up to that gas station. Yeah. The one, the mural across 543 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,240 from where they were abducted and go to the mural. I frigging love it. It's like a 544 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,240 religious experience for me. Yeah. So I mean, like in this, this case also helped 545 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,240 popularize the idea of an alien abduction as not just like a solitary event, but 546 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,240 something that could happen to like a group of people, which added like a new 547 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,240 layer of complexity to the whole like UFO abduction phenomenon. So whether it 548 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,240 happened or not, it definitely, it shed some light on some stuff in the community 549 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,240 that people were starting to take notice of. So that's kind of cool. Yeah. I think 550 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,240 it kind of makes this story more accessible to, to people too. And just in 551 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,240 terms of them being like, oh my God, like I go camping with my buddies sometimes, 552 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,240 you know? Yeah. I give them smooches around the webs. I would actually love to see, 553 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:06,240 I would love to see a UFO when I'm out camping. That'd be so frigging cool. I mean, 554 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,240 I, I've been out camping. I've seen satellites go by. I mean, I wouldn't want to 555 00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:14,240 fucking put a needle in my dick and balls, but I don't want to be sounded by 556 00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:18,240 aliens for sure. I mean, I, I mean, well, I mean, I guess it depends how drunk I am, 557 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:23,240 how I'm feeling, how hot are the aliens? Yeah. They didn't, they didn't sound hot. 558 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:29,240 No, they didn't. No, they didn't. But yeah, I want to believe this story is true. 559 00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:33,240 I do. I do too. Especially cause it happened in our own backyard. I mean, we can 560 00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:37,240 drive up to Allagash. Yeah. I'm realizing now that like, I just kind of ended the 561 00:34:37,240 --> 00:34:40,240 story and went straight into the theory. So that's because like, I couldn't find 562 00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:44,240 like any back, like they didn't like go home and then talk to the media. You know 563 00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:47,240 what I mean? Like it wasn't like one of those days where like you hear about it 564 00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:51,240 in the newspapers for like a bunch of, and then everyone in town is shitting on 565 00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:56,240 them and like fucking calling them frauds. She liked that. Like, so it kind of 566 00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:59,240 just is that it's like their story. They found the dude, they did the hypnosis 567 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:05,240 and then, you know, the guy wrote a book about it later. And then like, it wasn't 568 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:10,240 so like, I think the nineties or whatever that unsolved mysteries, the original 569 00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:14,240 one did a story. But even then, like, I don't remember hearing it. I had never 570 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:19,240 heard of this case until now. So I mean, I'm never convinced by the get rich quick 571 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:22,240 scheme angle when people talk about that for these stories, because no one is ever 572 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:26,240 in the history of alien abductions gotten rich because they got abducted by 573 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:30,240 aliens. True. I mean, Travis Walton got a movie made about him. I don't know if he 574 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:34,240 made money. I don't think he's rich though. Oh God, no, not by any means. Yeah. 575 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,240 But I mean, he's probably better off than fucking Chuck. Yeah, that's true. I mean, 576 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:42,240 all he did, all he did was surprise me with the fact that there's a town called 577 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:49,240 Snowflake in fucking New Mexico. That's how did that happen? You know, wishful 578 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:53,240 thinking, I guess, or maybe global war. Maybe there was a one point. We don't 579 00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:56,240 know. But I actually, I met somebody from Snowflake and I was like, Oh my God, 580 00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:01,240 fire in the sky. And she was considerably younger than I was. She's a college 581 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:04,240 student. She's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, forget it. Don't worry 582 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:10,240 about it. You wouldn't get it. No, so they have it kind of more relaxed episode. 583 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,240 We didn't really go too hard on anything. Nothing too crazy except for the 584 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:17,240 sounding thing. You know, I want to believe the story is true. Like something, 585 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:20,240 I do too. Something definitely happened to the men out there, whether they, 586 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:26,240 whether they just high saw fucking weird light in the sky and then forgot, or 587 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:32,240 maybe they did get full on sounded by grays. Who knows? Or maybe it was a 588 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:35,240 little bit of both. Maybe they just had a passionate night of wonderful carnal 589 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:40,240 experiences in the deep dark remote recesses of the main forest. Well, I mean 590 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:46,240 they didn't not leave for another 10 days. So exactly. You know, maybe they 591 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:51,240 were like, Hey, we need to explain all these weird scars in our body. Exactly. 592 00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:56,240 All right. So what do you, what do you think about this story? I like it. I want 593 00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:00,240 to go camping there. I want to go right now. It sounds like a nightmare. Not 594 00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:04,240 right now. It's cold and shitty, but we should go there and record a podcast 595 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:08,240 from these woods. All right. See what happens. Maybe we'll get fucking. Yeah. 596 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:12,240 Just see what happens. You know, just get up there. Just the male urge to get 597 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:18,240 abducted with your boys. Yeah, exactly. I got FOMO. The masculine urge to get 598 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:25,240 sounded by aliens next to your boys. Sometimes I wonder if some of these alien 599 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:29,240 abduction stories are just a way for like some really repressed dudes to just 600 00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:36,240 get some of their fantasies out. All right. Sorry. That's the end of the 601 00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:40,240 episode. I think we did okay for our first episode back in 2025. Maybe we 602 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,240 nailed it. I have no idea. Fucking who knows? All right. Is there anything you 603 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:48,240 want to, you want to plug before we? Yes. The coloring book is still live. 604 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:56,240 Saj's super normal.com. Get a coloring book and color your pain away. Also on 605 00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:02,240 Friday. I'm going on Scotch fully yours with some buddies of mine. Is he going to 606 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:07,240 air Friday or is it going to? I don't know. I'll put out some stuff on the 607 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:11,240 internet. I'll post something on the socials so that people can tune in 608 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:16,240 appropriately. I'll, I'll support it. Doug, who is one of the co-hosts that I 609 00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:21,240 know. It's a great guy. I'm sure we're going to have a good time. Hell yeah. Yeah. 610 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:24,240 If you want to keep up with what's going on with Saj, you can follow him on all 611 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:29,240 of the socials at Saj's destroyer on most platforms. Yeah. Just Google Saj 612 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:32,240 destroyer. You'll find it. Yeah. Or you can find all of the socials at the link 613 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:36,240 in our Instagram, which you can follow at Crypto cocktail. You follow us on 614 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:40,240 TikTok, Crypto cocktail party. Please leave us a rating and review. It's super 615 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:43,240 helps. Tell your friends to listen to the show. Even if you don't, you know, even 616 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,240 if they don't like it, you know, just get them to listen to one episode. That's their problem, not yours. 617 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:51,240 You, you, you led them to water, make them drink it. Steal their phone, download 618 00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:56,240 every episode and then leave a rating and review as them. Yes. I think that's 619 00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,240 encouraged. I think that works for me. I smoke some hash first so they don't 620 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:04,240 remember. Yeah. It might be fraud, but I don't give a fuck. It's not really like, 621 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:08,240 it's only fraud if you get caught. I mean, it's not like a criminal fraud. Yeah. 622 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:14,240 It's like a, it's like a little rap scallion fraud is what that is. Yeah. It's 623 00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:19,240 very new, encourageable, scallywag. It's a very tiny Tim crime. Yeah. Yeah. All 624 00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:24,240 right. Thanks so much everyone. 2025 is going to be our year. I could feel it. 625 00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:29,240 And I think with that out of the way, Sarge, do you want to say goodbye? And I love you to the audience. 626 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:57,240 Goodbye. And I love you guys. 627 00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:00,240 Yeah.