Sit back and get ready to take off with Dynamic Golf.
So welcome back Dynamic Golf listeners.
I'm your host Tim McElvanagh and with me is my fellow co-host Sean Klotz.
Sean, who's our guest today?
Hey T-Mac and hey Dynamic listeners.
I feel like this is a really good get.
I say that a couple of times throughout our times we've been doing this.
But Phil O'Neill is a club president up at Oakley Country Club and I've known Phil for
basically about six months now.
I feel like we're lifelong friends because he's just got a great personality.
Phil, just kind of introduce yourself to our listeners and maybe give us a little background
of kind of where you came from, what you've been doing.
Sure, sure.
You got 50 minutes to Phil.
Yeah, no, Sean, thank you.
Thank you, T-Mac.
Pleasure to be here with Sean.
We're at Oakley Country Club here in the Boston area.
Yeah, as Sean mentioned, my name is Phil O'Neill.
I am currently the president of Oakley Country Club.
Not from the area originally.
Born and raised in Ireland, you know, in the southeast originally.
And then we finally moved to the northwest, which is where I was introduced to golf.
And, you know, came to the US in the late 90s for work.
Kind of a cliche really, you know, came for a year and 25 years later, we're still here.
So it's been wonderful.
It's been just wonderful.
We've enjoyed every minute of it.
We've been very fortunate that we had the opportunity to come to the US and, you know,
we've had three kids born here.
We've been in the Boston area the whole time.
Kind of a golf family, right?
Yeah, very, yeah.
Very fortunate that Connor plays, Kate plays.
Yeah, Gail has taken it up.
My wife in the last few years, Laura can play, but doesn't necessarily enjoy it as much,
you know.
But I'm very fortunate.
I mean, I think for us all to be in the game of golf, you know, my dad got me into golf
when I was about 13.
How many times do we hear that, Tim?
A lot.
Right about the age of 13, 10 to 13 is about the big golden age.
It is, it is.
I was, it was very, I had, I was actually, you know, in Ireland at that time, you know,
we're talking early 80s, Sean and Tim back and it was, you know, so it was very much
a men's game.
Okay.
You know, there wasn't a lot of ladies playing and there wasn't a lot of kids.
So kids were supposed to be seen and not heard.
I tell my kids that all the time.
They don't listen though.
So yeah, I actually, I picked up a sport, the head injury playing football.
And so I had no, I was given a mandate, no contact sport for a year.
So I headed out to the golf course with my dad and, and, and very quickly kind of picked
up the game and just fell in love with it and have played ever since, you know, and
then you play like on a collegiate level sort of how does it, yeah, it's, it's a little
bit different.
The school scene in Ireland is a little bit more like the collegiate scene in the U S
college golf.
So there's really, at the time it was only like five universities in Ireland.
So there wasn't a lot of schools and hence there wasn't really the ability to have any
kind of competitive league.
Okay.
You know, so, so college golf was not, was not huge in the eighties growing up.
And in fact, as I mentioned earlier, junior golf wasn't huge.
So if you were able, if you were able to kind of play and, and, and progress, you know,
you could, you know, you could represent your, your, your club, you could represent your
province and you can represent your country, you know, so, but at high school we ended
up with a really strong golf program and a great bunch of guys.
We won like five national championships in our, in our high years and your three, five
man teams and three, two, three man team.
The three man team is actually a world golf event.
So I don't know if you're familiar with the world golf Federation.
It was a kind of junior global junior golf program and they held world championships,
which we qualified for.
I played in 1987 in Fox Hills and Surrey, England.
And that was a really good experience.
You know, it was a, you know, four days of metal play and a really tough course.
I mean, the European Q school used to be held at Fox Hills and David Furti tells a great
story.
He says, no, he said, if, if they hadn't moved the Q school out of Fox Hills, he would, he
would never become a pro because he couldn't break baby.
But, but so, yeah.
And then so college then it's a bit of a, you know, a lot of good kids.
So at that time, you know, Darren Tarpe is in the program.
He was a year older than I was, Port Carrington is a year younger than I am.
So we were right in that mix.
And so a lot of those kids took a break after high school, you know, a year or two to try
and focus on amateur golf.
And you know, again, you know, you have to be lucky enough to be able to do that.
You know, I didn't, I went straight from high school to university and kind of golf took
a bit of a backseat, you know, from, you know, that.
Did you know or any regrets in your world?
Like, did you, did you know like you maybe weren't as top notch as Darren Clark or the
more about resources type of thing?
I would put it simply in a, he was like, he was the most talented amateur in Ireland by
far.
Right.
He was so naturally gifted, you know, all striking, incredible.
And that, so he was on that path.
But, you know, others like my very good friend, Francis Howley, who's now the head pro at
Portmarnock in Dublin, which is a wonderful golf course and facility.
Francie turned pro and, and, you know, he got his tour card same year as Portmarnock
got his, Portmarnock Harrington.
You know, so, and I, you know, I was close enough, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I was in total with Francis for the, you know, the years of like 14 to 19 time
thing.
Okay.
And then, but the opportunity wasn't there and it wasn't, it wasn't encouraged.
It wasn't promoted.
Like the European tour was, I mean, it was amazing.
There wasn't a lot of money in the game back then.
And so, you know, when you were coming out of high school, it was like, do you want to
be a doctor or a priest?
Those were the kind of the two questions you were asked in Ireland.
And you know, so golf wasn't really on the menu.
It wasn't, it wasn't an option per se.
So, but, you know, that's how I got into the game and that's how I grew to love it.
And then, you know, came to the US and for work and, you know, and my wife's Irish as
well.
So she, she came over with, we were just married and then, you know, you start a family and
you're busy and stuff like that.
So, you know, I played around the Boston area, you know, tournaments, invitational charity
events, that type of thing.
And then in 2010, somebody said, hey, you should look into joining Oakley.
And so I came up for a practice round and, you know, had a great, a great day.
And then they were offering a, you know, a trial program for, for new members.
I jumped on that and, and then kind of became a full member on January 1st, 2011.
And it's been, it's been wonderful.
It's a team act, you know, you're, I'm sitting here with Sean, as we said, but it's a wonderful,
it's a, it's the first Donald Ross course.
We celebrated our 125th last year.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
So Ross came over from Dornock in Scotland and his first job was Oakley Country Club.
And he, you know, he's gone on to design and build a pretty good career.
So but yeah, so we're very proud of that.
And you know, we probably, we could do a better job letting people know that this is the first
Ross course.
But I think we started to get better at that.
And, and yeah, but really I think what, what, what makes Oakley special for me, I think,
and most of the members is just the membership of the people here.
And it's not your typical country club culture.
And you know, people are super friendly, super nice, engaging, you know, you just feel welcome,
I think, when you come to Oakley, regardless of who you are, what you're doing.
And I think that's really the, that's the special, special sauce, you know, for Oakley
here, you know, the course obviously is spectacular.
And you know, it's a, it's not long, it's, it's, you know, but it's a true Ross course
in terms of the green complexes.
You know, some of the Irish amateurs I spoke about, they're now have come through here
from time to time and they're, they're like, just absolutely terrorized by our green complex.
And these are all like really good golfers.
So it's, it's, it's, it stands up.
It stands up.
It definitely does.
It really does, Sean.
For 125 year old golfers.
Yeah, it stands up over time.
Tim, I think you should be like an honorary member after what we've done this summer with
our interview and our local youth.
I was going to, I was going to say, you know, Phil is, is, you know, I think he's, he's,
he's definitely right.
Every member that I've talked to on this podcast has been very warm, opening, welcoming.
I've worked at private facilities.
I've met the, the presidents and the board members and they're not usually very friendly
or very open to people.
And it's, it's very, it's very unique and you can tell that it's a very special place
that you guys have there.
You got to, you got a little piece of heaven right there.
We do with everybody that, that, that, you know, is welcoming to come on here and talk
to us and everything.
You've got a great facility right there.
I think the thing is the pride Tim.
So now I'm kind of like starting to become the insider, you know, at the beginning of
the summer, I was the outsider guy and starting to become kind of the part of the inside crew,
whatever, if that makes sense.
And there's pride in every member you talk to, you know, they're appreciative.
That's another term I would use for the membership and what they've got, you know, and it does,
it just takes them, you know, a couple of, go to a couple of different golf courses in
the area and you realize the dedication, the superintendent has the dedication, the greens
committee chairman has kind of like directing and the board directing the superintendent
is it's a really good team atmosphere.
And like you're talking about T Mac and we're not going to name names on courses in the
Tampa area.
We couldn't private facilities that you feel like you're an outsider all the time when
you walk in.
Um, but this one is, uh, this one, this one's different when you walk into the parking lot,
you know, the goal is essentially that you don't touch your bag, um, that you feel like
you're a guest for the day if you are a guest.
And then that, that typically has led to probably many memberships in the past too.
Oh yeah.
They feel that experience they have.
Yeah, they really do.
I mean, no, and you're very kind.
I mean, I think it is, it is all of that, you know, Oakley is all of that.
And you know, and our location as well, we're right here in the city, we're in the city
right now actually.
So it's a, it's, you know, we're, we're a short, we're a short spin into, into downtown
Boston and you know, and I think, you know, we're starting to see a lot of new young,
um, members, you know, who are working in the city, see how easy it is to shoot up Sturrow
Drive and get to Oakley in a few minutes.
And, and, and that's really starting to, um, really starting to help the club and the position
the club to be, you know, really in a strong, in a strong position for, for years to come
and both in terms of the, the membership and, and, and the families that, you know, come
with the new members as well.
That's great.
Uh, it hasn't always been that way, right?
So talk to me like from 2010 to 2024, there was, wasn't there a period of time when you
guys were looking for members?
Oh yeah, yeah.
We had, yeah, like, I mean, you know, I'm sure every club has similar story, but yeah.
So from, you know, 2010, I mentioned the trial program that was an initiative to try to encourage
people to come and, you know, try out the course without having to put down, you know,
any significant money.
Was that literally the much I don't want to hear about it?
Was that literally like 2008 real estate boom kind of goes down?
Yeah, it was.
It really was.
And, you know, and there was another couple of factors.
It was funny, you know, when I was interviewed, when I was interviewed for the, the, um, to
become a member, um, you know, at the club, you know, one of the selling points from the
membership committee was how great the greens were.
Right.
But when you went back out to play the greens, they were not great.
Okay.
Or actually really bad.
And so the course, we had a superintendent at the time, you know, names won't, won't
be mentioned, but, um, you know, the, the course was not in good shape and members were
not happy.
Members were not new members were not joining, I think as a big result of that.
Um, and you know, that's when we got our new superintendent that joined in 2012, I think.
And he just turned the place around and, and, you know, the course became just pristine.
People really kind of, you know, started to recognize, wow, it can really be like this,
you know, and, uh, level of expectation.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Like again, yeah.
Yeah.
And we're, you know, eight miles from downtown or not even eight miles, five miles from
downtown Boston.
Wow.
So there's a level of expectation that kind of the membership has and sort of the people
have around this area.
Um, you've some pretty stiff competition.
Yeah.
As far as private.
Oh yeah.
Absolutely.
The country club.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, uh, and you can keep going to what we keep on a little.
Oh yeah.
Well, you got a lot of money in that area.
You've got a lot of prestige in that area and you've got to, you've got to build your
product to, to, to match what you're looking for.
I would imagine.
Yeah.
And, and that is a great, that's a super point Tim, because I think as well, you know,
you know, the God, the game of golf and the golf industry and country clubs are evolving
all the time and changing.
And if you don't, if you don't recognize that, and if you can't move and have change and
evolve with that, you're going to, you know, you're going to hit a few bumps.
Yeah.
And you know, and, and I think, you know, so much of it has to do with, with getting
the right people involved, people who really have, I mean, you know, we're lucky again
because we have so many members here that really love this place and, and there's, there's
so generous with their time.
The volunteers so much of their time to, you know, be it on committees or, you know,
simulator redesigning simulator rooms.
It's like, it's endless.
It goes on and on, but, but, but, you know, getting the right group of people together
at the committee level.
And then even more importantly, at the board level is just so important.
Yeah.
Because if you don't have people who really understand what's going on and how the club
needs to evolve, how, how the whole, how you, how you make the changes to stay relevant
and keep pace in a city like Boston, you know, you can get behind really quickly, you know,
things can go sideways pretty quickly.
So I think that's really important.
How do you, so talk to us about, again, kind of like from that, we can use Oakley as the
footprint, no question about it from, from becoming the club president.
Yeah.
Like is there a, you're vice president first type of thing.
Cause you all see that training to see it.
It's right.
It really is.
I mean, there's a, you know, it's, it's so, you know, you really, in order to do the job,
in order to be a board member first, you really know, have to know the ins and outs of the
workings of a facility, of an organization like, like Oakley, right.
Or any country.
Right.
Everybody, you know, you have your second business.
We could be talking about any country.
You have your, you have your systems, your policies, your staff, you know, all your nuances
and you really need to understand how the place functions and takes over to be on the
board and then even more so to be president.
So, so how it works here is, you know, you, you, you volunteer to join a committee.
I became golf chair and I joined the golf committee and then I became golf chair.
And then from golf chair, I was, you know, asked and it's, it's a huge honor, obviously,
you know, it's a, it's really the president and vice president's prerogative to pick the
next president or vice president.
When I say pick and nominate and, and, you know, and then, you know, they're put forward
to the nominating committee, the nominating committee then votes on who they believe is
the best person for a job.
So there is a full process there and that, and every stage of that is very important.
So once you're asked, you're vice president, you're vice president for two years and then
you take president for two years.
So two year terms and then you leave the board.
And so you do, you do have to think carefully about your board and your committees because
you want the right people cycling through and you can't just, you can't just, you know,
pat it down in the, in the bar, hey, do you want to be president next?
It's like, it doesn't work like that.
And you need the knowledge, you need the institutional knowledge to really, to be able to do the
job effectively.
Yeah.
You know,
so would you say, Phil, that in your time that you've been there, you've seen not just
a change in the membership, but also a change in the training program from, you know, one
stage to the next.
Have you seen a lot of passion in that?
I take it, it seems like that they're, they're, they're working hard on how to train the next,
you know, president, vice president, so on and so forth.
Yeah.
To a certain extent, that's, that's right.
T Mac.
I think the, the, the big thing, like in so many things, it's all about the people and
you know, the country club needs great staff.
Like, and, and I think that's really something that we have focused on in the last number
of years, you know, so we, you know, like people like Sean here, you know, we need people
like we need more people like Sean, we look for, for, for the talent that's out there
because that's what's really going to make the difference.
Like we need, you know, at the end of the day, we're hiring professionals, whether it's
golf professionals, whether it's superintendent, greenskeepers, you know, grounds, groundskeepers,
but also clubhouse manager, you know, executive chef and the kitchen staff, the bar staff,
the service staff.
I mean, these are all professional people who we, who we rely on to do a great job and
they just do a wonderful job.
And I think in years gone by, that wasn't always the case, you know, and, and the continuity
of having Pat and Scott just from the incredible, incredible, yeah.
Yeah.
Through the process.
And just, you know, you have to, you have to recognize that and do the right thing.
Like, like make it easy for these guys to stay here, make it easy for our staff to stay
here.
They want to be here.
They like the job.
It's rewarding.
It's challenging.
They're well compensated.
Like that's, you know, that's what you have to do, especially in a competitive market
like Boston where like you've got, you know, a dozen clubs, TMAC within like 20 minute
drive, you know, and, and it's, you know, so, so I think recognizing some of that TMAC
is really, is really important.
And you know, finding people, good people, and then keeping them.
And then they start to, as you mentioned, train other staff, other members, bring people
up to speed.
Right.
It's a, it's a constant, constant process.
I think the other big thing is communication, you know, trying to be transparent with as
much as you can with the membership about what we're doing, where the club is going,
how the club is, is, you know, is it financially sound, you know, what are the big projects
we're going to spend the money on, you know, so, cause again, we're all owners who've got
340 bondholders, everybody's an owner.
And so I think it's important to, to be as transparent as possible.
You know, you can't go through everything, but, but, but, you know, we try to do that
as best we can.
And those are some of the, I think things that have, I think helped the club and you
know, we're pretty healthy now.
We've got a good waiting list across our member categories.
And you know, so.
Kind of like the juniors, the juniors team, we call juniors kind of that 24 to 32, 33
year old type of thing.
Okay.
And those guys are, you can just tell they're kind of the next sort of batch or recruits
we'll call them.
It is without a doubt the fastest growing group right there in the game of golf right
now, the 24 to 30 year olds, they are just coming on strong and a ton of them.
And they have wealth, you know, they are, they're not like us back in the day, you know,
we couldn't get two nickels to rub together, but these kids have, you know, high prominent
jobs and income to dispose of.
And they are the highest group of golfers coming out right now.
Yeah.
No question about it.
We see it.
We see it here, Tim.
I mean, the number of applicants in that, in that age bracket is off the charts.
And it's something we're kind of acutely aware of and trying to see how best to manage that
going forward.
And while also keeping the legacy people, the guys who have been supporting the club.
100%.
Right.
We're very focused and, you know, have been and hopefully will continue to be, take the
right steps when it comes to protecting the legacy members and legacy member families
as best we can, you know.
And, and, and I think that's really important, you know, and, and,
So TMAC, though, one of the things you just kind of touched on, I don't know if you meant
to touch on it, but like these, these younger generation and it's ladies and men, by the
way,
Oh yeah.
It's not just men.
Very successful 25 to 35 year old ladies that I know that are kind of becoming part of the
club too.
They're coming from colleges and universities.
I mean, one of Boston's biggest economic imprints or footprints is the universities and the colleges
around here.
Right.
So they're from, again, BU, BC, they're spending 60 to $80,000 a year to go to these schools.
So when they come up, they're getting jobs that are, you know, ideally 75 to $200,000
jobs.
Whereas we're a little different than our temple world where, you know, university is
not,
It's not even negative, it's just kind of the way it is, right?
If Florida's two hours away, Florida State's two and four hours away, you know, University
of South Florida is right there, but it's just different.
The economic factors that go into,
And South Florida is more of a suitcase college too.
So you know, you don't have that, you don't have those kids staying around as soon as
college is gone or class is gone.
They're back to wherever it is, Miami or Orlando or wherever it is.
Yeah.
Right.
And like these kids that were talking about this, these are generational kids, like they're
grandfathers, they're great, they've lived in Winchester, Belmont, you know, Watertown,
Brookline.
Yeah.
They've lived here for generations.
Florida, that Tampa area, you know, what a house is old if it's 1960, right?
Yeah, exactly.
It's the oldest golf course that we know of is in Claywater, right?
Or St. Pete.
It's still there, Bel Air.
But that's in 1918, totally different than our courses up here.
So it just translates the membership, it kind of, you see it in different parts of the operation.
Well, the history up there, I mean, it's just so much richer, it's deeper.
I mean, you've got, I mean, just littered with pros and history and that just breeds
and feeds, you know, younger generations and traditional golfers, you know, family golfers
throughout the time.
Does it remind you of Ireland though?
Does it remind you of Ireland?
Oh, yeah, it definitely does.
It definitely does.
I mean, I think, you know, golf is huge in Ireland now, obviously.
I mean, it's just, it's so different than it was back in the late, early 90s.
It's taken off.
It's, you know, it really is, it's more like it is here now than it was.
The exposure.
Yeah, the exposure.
Now, what's the access?
The thing you said before, like, are our kids, our juniors, our ladies much more accepted?
Oh, yeah.
It's night and day.
Yeah, it's night and day.
I mean, yeah, absolutely.
You know, it's, it's, you know, as I said, just the access, the availability, the quality
of the golf courses.
I mean, you know, it's just incredible.
You know, I mean, like we, one of the good, like growing up there, you took it, you just
took it for granted.
You were walking, you know, you're playing, you're Strand Hill, Ross Point, you know,
Ennis Scroo and those are of course, we're all like, they're all like top 100 courses
are just amazing.
True links golf.
Yeah.
And you would go out and play and it was, you would be the only person on the course,
you know, and it was, it was just a different time.
But, but, you know, it was looking back, it was pretty special to be able to do that and
play those courses because now it's like, it's so different.
And now, you know, unfortunately as well, the downside of the, the downside of the exposure
and that how they've marketed what they have, which is amazing.
Right.
But like, what green fees and things like that are getting really expensive.
You know, I mean, I, we used to play a lot of junior underage, you know, with the Irish
panel and teams in the hinge player West course.
It was a desk, it was like a four weekends a year in the hinge.
We would turn up and get coached by John Gardner first, then it was David Jones.
And, and, you know, but like, and it's a wonderful spot, but now it's 400 euros now to play the
hinge.
Right.
It's like, it's right up there with, you know, I don't know what Pebble Beach is these days,
but it's, but you know, it's, it's, that's the other side that's gone with it, but still
there are obviously the courses are busy now.
They're packed.
They're doing really well.
And which is great because you know, now those courses are able to kind of put some money
back into the facility, the clubhouse, the course, and, and, you know, keep that whole
thing, you know, at the level it should be, you know,
Is it kind of getting to the point?
So Scott Johnson, you know, team, I can listen to their Scott Johnson is our head professional
here.
Been here for 24 years.
Just an amazing guy.
Great guy.
He's going, he just booked the trip down to Pinehurst.
But the thing is, you know, I can listen to it.
He's not playing Pinehurst.
No, because there's so many golf courses around there, around there that are worth playing.
So kind of the same idea, like, yeah, you might go to Old Head in Ireland, but how many
great golf courses are right around it?
Exactly.
Whatever.
Yeah.
Those are exactly the same thing.
You might, you know, the ones in Ireland, obviously that stick out or, you know, Old
Head is a, is a, you know, more of a recent addition, but you know, poor Marnock in Dublin
is just special.
That's where Ross came from.
No, Ross came from Dornal.
Dornal, sorry.
I can say Stockton.
Okay.
And then obviously Roy County down, which is just obviously amazing.
It's always hitting the lists.
British Open.
You know, for, well, the British Open was held in Royport Rush, which is not far away
in the same northern part of the country.
And yeah, that was interesting because, you know, it's, it's, it's Northern Ireland and
the British Open was going to play there.
So it was kind of a first in a long, long time.
And it's there again next year.
So it's it.
Yeah.
So they're going back to Royport Rush, which will be, which will be great.
It was a great open.
It's the one that Lowry won.
Lowry.
So, which was pretty special, but yeah, it's, have you played with him at all?
No, Lowry's younger.
Yeah.
How old Shane is now?
Maybe he's himself a McIlroyer, I think 36, 37.
Right around there.
So, but no, he, I know, but I mean, big fan of Lowry, big fan of his game, big fan of
his attitude.
He's a fun guy.
And yeah, so, but yeah, no, it's like that, Sean.
There's so many good unknown courses that you can, I think that's the beauty of it,
right?
You go to play the ones you've heard of like Travée, Valley Bunyan, then around the corners
Dukes and there's all these other great courses that are maybe not like getting headline,
but they're, they're really great tracks and fun to play, you know?
And it's so yeah.
So Ireland is definitely, they've definitely really figured out the whole golf destination
slash trips for sure.
You know?
Now, Phil, let me ask you as a kid growing up, I've heard some of the great golf courses
that you had, who are some of the great influences for your golf game?
So I think at the time, Tim, I think good, good question.
So I mean, I'm not sure if these names will resonate, but you know, you've, so Chris O'Connor,
yeah, Chris O'Connor senior was like a real ambassador for Irish golf.
He was really great player back in the 50s, 60s, 70s and then his nephew, Chris O'Connor
Jr.
I think that's the one I remember.
Yeah.
So you'll remember the two ironing hit into the belt three in the rider cup, which was
like, you know, this incredible two iron on the last hole of the rider cup to beat, beat
the U S for, you know, I mean, you know, I think that the U S has won maybe 39 rider
cups in a row.
Pretty one sided.
Before, yeah, before Europe started to kind of figure it out.
But it's, but he was a big influence.
Chris O'Connor Jr. and then you went on to have people like Des Smith, you know, if Ferdy
himself was, was a player, I think he won six times in Europe.
He's a really good player.
And you know, so those were the influence at the time.
And obviously, you know, being closely aligned to England as well, you were, you know, you're
the Nick Fallows of the world and Howard Clarks and these guys.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So, but yeah, in Ireland, those would have been the influences, TMAC, you know, the those
were the guys.
And then you had your own, you know, you had your pro at your own club, you know, our pro
was Brian Malone.
He had a pretty good amateur career, pretty good professional career, you know, before
he ended up at Strand Hill in Sligo.
So your dad is a decent player?
Yeah, he's probably like a seven or eight handicapped.
Yeah, that's pretty good.
Yeah.
He was some of dad was how we ended up.
So I was born in Westford, southeast of Ireland.
And then my dad changed jobs.
So he was in he was in agricultural science.
Okay.
So he did was involved in land reclamation projects, initially for the government and
then for a private company.
So in Ireland, the west of Ireland, the land is not great.
So from an agricultural perspective, it's it's kind of wet and stony and not not as
fertile as East Coast or certainly the south.
Okay.
So he worked for a company in Sligo that did a lot of land reclamation projects.
Right.
So that's how the process what we moved.
Okay.
And I moved just like kind of finishing elementary school going into high school around that
time.
I was like 10, 11.
Yeah.
So that's how we ended up in the northwest.
And that's that's how big soccer fan or you know, there's the Irish sports, you're curling
and football.
We would have been the primary sports in growing up in school, you know, in your town and local
teams as soccer was pretty big was big, equally big.
Okay.
And rugby at the time wasn't as big.
But now it's huge.
Yeah.
And the sports was huge.
I mean, yeah, the schools, you know, the grown up in in Ireland sport was was big.
Right.
Yeah.
And you know, a lot of schools in Ireland at the time were, you know, those convents.
So the girls would go to the convent and then the boys would go to an old boys school.
So that even made it more kind of the focus and attention to sport and competitive sport
huge.
But again, football, hurling, soccer, not so much golf.
Well, the golf in our school became huge in secondary school.
And then there's a, you know, we do some very good competitive national program or league
like annual tournaments, you know.
See, Mac, I got a question I'm going to ask you first.
Okay.
It's going to lead to a question for Phil.
Okay.
So you got two daughters, is that correct?
Yes, sir.
That I know of.
I mean, they're ages again, because they were like little when I was there, but now they're
old, I think.
I've got one that's two and one that's five.
There you go.
Oh, wow.
That's awesome.
The five year old I've been seeing on YouTube a little bit swinging with you.
Yeah.
Yep.
She's been swinging a little bit, getting her into the game of golf.
I'd started her at about age two.
So she's been swinging since about three.
And I've got the other one, the younger one swinging to love it.
Love it.
And the question to you, and it's going to be coming to Phil here in a second, is kind
of because I see him working with his kids or I see him playing with his kids.
His kids are great that I know.
I know Connor and Kate really well, don't know Laura as much.
Haven't seen her as much.
But what kind of like, you know, maybe general again, but like what tips, what are you going
to tell the youngsters, the five year old, the two year old, like what are the major
things that you kind of try to get them to start doing even at that age?
And then again, Phil's kids are a little bit older.
My girl's a little bit older, but sort of, you know.
Really the big thing I do at that age is I just try to get them to stand correctly and
hold the club correctly at that point, you know, at age five and, you know, two, I'm
just trying to get them into the position.
They always want to hold it with their left hand low and swing it that way.
So getting them to kind of reverse that a little bit and then just getting the sand,
you know, stand square to their target line.
At this age, I just want them to swing the club and have fun.
If they're laughing and having fun, then we continue on.
But once they start kind of, you know, getting tired, it's, it's pull it back and let's
find something else, some other activity to do.
I love it.
Well, yeah.
What do you, what do you worry about interlock grip at five years old?
No, no, at this point I'm just trying to get the right hand below the left hand.
If they have a baseball grip, so be it.
We'll get to that grip later on, but just trying to get the hands in the right position
and the feet somewhat spread apart and, and towards the thing is, is really all I focus
at this age.
That's funny.
This summer, we've been teaching a lot of juniors up here, you know, through the PGA
junior league, we kind of created a fall kids camp.
The players I get up here a lot, girls and boys is a lot of hockey players, right?
That's their sport.
Yeah.
So my biggest thing with the kind of seven to 10 year olds is getting to keep their hands
together.
Yeah.
So you're trying to get the right hand to interlock, but just not separated.
And you're trying to explain to an eight year old, Hey, the reason you don't want to have
your right hand too far below your left hand is you're going to start having extra right
hand at the bottom.
You're swinging.
I've already lost them, right?
Yeah.
Just, just keep your hands together at the bottom, bottom line.
So I think it's just kind of funny, you know, age wise, there's so much as just let them
go.
Let them go have fun, hit the ball, see what happens.
Go find it.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So then I'll switch the question to you Phil, because I see you working with Connor a little
bit.
I see you work with Laura, but maybe more with Kate.
Maybe I just don't see you work with Connor.
Yeah.
Is there certain things that you kind of try to impress on her?
At this stage?
I see you working with her putting in the...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I know it's great.
I'm just delighted that, you know, they're playing.
And it's like T-Mac, you know, I know how busy you are with a five and a two year old,
but it's like, it's, you know, my kids when they started as well were, you know, they
liked it.
But then, you know, it was other sports, soccer, baseball, pop warner, I mean, all the sports,
but they've come back to golf, which is really great.
You know, I mean, that I just think you just get so much out of golf, not just people and,
you know, but even business and connections and relationships.
It's amazing.
So just delighted that they're into that.
But now, yeah, I used to say to them, like, you know, mid teens or whatever, like, they
learn how to hit it and then you learn how to play.
So I think we're at the point of like playing now, so you know, even with pain, it's learning
how to score, it's learning how to hit, you know, the right shot maybe, you know, or to
assess, you know, what can go wrong or, or even just where you should hit it maybe.
You know, why don't you like just think a little bit more about it, then, you know,
because it'll it'll help you shave a few shots off your score and then then just kind of
things like alignment and you know, reading a green or something at all.
I need somebody to show me how to read a green these days.
Sounds like it's right up your alley, Sean.
You got Connor who's six foot two and bombs it.
Absolutely.
And we're look, I mean, the kids are, you know, they're coordinated, right.
So whether it was the hockey or baseball or stuff, I think that really lends itself to
to do the hand eye coordination and stuff.
So, yeah, Connor's a big kid and he's got a good swing, I think, pretty much.
And he can be like so many kids these days now.
They're just hitting it.
T-Mac so far, right?
Trust me.
But then it kind of breaks down a little bit then, you know, from around the short game
and stuff like that.
And it's it's I think for me as well, I don't know if the same for you guys going off, but
for me, it was easier to figure out the short game growing up and start, you know, starting
with the game than it was the long game.
You know, like, you know, I mean, that's where you made your right.
I think that's where I became a better player with the short game.
And it's kind of flipped for me now.
I'm probably a better ball striker.
Yeah.
I mean, now my game is not there.
Yeah.
You know, or not where it certainly not where it used to be.
You know, T-Mac, talk a little bit about that, about kind of what's your strengths?
You like short game, you like long game.
Where do you feel like you're kind of got good or whatever?
Well, I think as a kid growing up, you know, my grandpa took me to the driving range quite
a bit.
There wasn't a lot of practice facilities as far as short game went.
It was just kind of a field and you hit balls out into it and that was it.
So I became a pretty good ball striker, I would say.
I hit the ball pretty well.
I'd get it around the course pretty well.
But my weakness is going to be my short game and I work very hard on it.
But you know, I think it's just one of those things if I had the time as a younger, younger
child to work on those things around the green, I'd be a lot better.
But you know, I think it's just like Phil said, you know, you kind of what you're able
to work with is what your strength becomes.
Right?
Yeah.
So I grew up.
Yeah, I grew up.
My dad took me.
My dad, we've talked about it before.
My dad was five foot eight, maybe about 190 pounds left handed, kind of had some like either
either super bad arthritis or he was born in 1936.
So 1941 in America, like diagnosed with polio, literally.
So he really never had strength in his hands and his body to kind of make motions that
we can all make me and my brother, my brother, six, five.
So I always think of him as like if he had to drive 180 yards, he was super happy.
Yeah, yeah.
Big deal.
Yeah.
You know, we played a lot of par three courses or nine hole facilities that were kind of
maybe par 32 or something.
Yeah.
Now I look back, I know why we did because he didn't want to look.
But that really landed to your short game though, didn't it?
Yeah, no, but that play in the par three, which isn't there anymore, Middleton Golf
Force that Scott knows as well, but it was an 18 hole par three.
And again, I worked at a golf course from the time I was 13 to 21, a course called Thompson
Country Club in North Reading.
But when I would play with my dad, especially those first kind of like, we'll call it 11,
12, 13 years old tag along with my brother, you're hitting three wood from 150 yards.
Yeah.
And you can hit the green with a three wood a lot.
So you have to become a good short game person.
And the guys that like when I went to clinics, Saturday morning clinics as a 13 year old,
Chris Costa was a, is an excellent teacher up here in the kind of Northeast area.
Right.
And then Jane Frost is another lady, excellent LPGA.
She's actually, I think she's the hall of fame for LPGA.
They were like Phil said, they happen to be pros at Middleton Golf Force and they happen
to teach Saturday morning clinics.
And I still do.
And I still teach what they taught me.
Literally 40.
Wow.
Holy cow.
That's incredible, Sean.
Yeah.
It's stuff that you kind of don't even realize.
I was telling one of the bag room kids yesterday, gave a short game lesson.
We got a great little chipping practice area back here at Oakley.
And the kids like, why are you so, the bag room guys like, why are you so, you're amped
up?
And I said, cause I love teaching chipping.
There's so many ways to do it.
Oh yeah.
Right.
You chip in Ireland differently.
You chip in Massachusetts differently than you chip in Florida.
Oh, incredible.
Yeah.
Fascination.
Yeah.
All the different things.
And definitely a part of the game that's overlooked completely, right?
Oh, it's so important.
And it is already.
People, I don't think spend half enough time on it.
I mean, you know, it brings people to the medium.
Like the reason Tom was Tom Kite was cause he was so good with his wedges.
You know, like Lauren Roberts, who would have ever known Lauren Roberts, but he's an unbelievable
putter.
Yeah.
Not conventional, but like, you know, incredible putter.
Yeah.
You know, never going to hit as good as Tiger, as good as Ernie Els, as good as Davis Lung.
Yeah.
But he figured out Corey Paven.
Like this players that we can keep talking about that had unbelievable short game, one
event.
Yeah.
And then unfortunately they've kind of gotten outpaced the last 10 to 15 years with Bryson
DeChambeau and Dustin Johnson.
Yeah.
It's changed.
It's definitely changed.
Distance has definitely changed.
But Sean, just on that, you're saying like, do you think the golf swing, you know, we
were kind of taught, you know, to kind of hit down on the ball, especially links golf.
Well, because you have to, right.
And now it's more certainly with the driver, it's like you're trying to like, you're supposed
to swing up or try and swing up.
I mean, which is something personally, I really, cause I think I kind of hit that still hit
down even with the driver.
Yeah.
And I think you and Brandon, Brandon definitely, Instagram video with tiger just literally
two days ago.
And he's talking about, you know, how to hit driver better and TMAC.
Do you remember in my old store, Taylor made had like a little display of T height with
some of the players.
Yes.
I remember that.
Yes.
So basically Rory, Dustin Johnson, these are all Taylor made guys, Rory, Dustin Johnson,
all of our color, they all, we all use the three and a quarter inch length T Ricky Fowler
are using the two and one eighth inch T for driver because tiger's point was I can T it
down lower.
I can hit my little butter.
Yeah.
His little power cut.
Yeah.
He knew what he was going to do every single time.
And as soon as you T it up higher now brings into more play some of some draw components
and he didn't like that.
Yeah.
Like when the U S or the British open with two iron with the trajectory part of it.
That's very interesting.
Well, you know what?
He's showing that T Mac last week.
There was a kid here, James Amai.
And James was in Northwestern.
He's a good friend of Connor's, my son.
And James is going to Q school this weekend in, I think he's out in Wisconsin or somewhere
like that.
And what he played here last week at Oakley and I played with him and he was teeing the
ball really low.
And I said like, and he said, I know where it's going when I said it's not going to hit
spray it left or right when I'm teeing it low.
And I was like, what are you talking about?
It eliminates a lot of negative bad things.
Wow.
I didn't.
Yeah.
Glad we tell you something.
Well, it's a lot more controlled shot pattern, right?
You know, it's much more natural for us to kind of swing onto the inside that it is to
the left and then try to manipulate the face to bring it back around.
Right.
So we're trying to tee it down a little bit lower, cut it out there.
And for me, when I'm on a tight hole or I've got water, you know, on one side or the other,
that's what I'm doing.
I'm teeing it down a little bit and I'm trying to, I'm trying to hit it more in the heel
than I am out towards the toe for sure.
Wow.
So what was, what was Daly's whole mantra when he came out on the golf, like when he
came out on tour, his whole thing was tee it high, let it fly.
Yeah.
And he was the first one realistically who came out with that physique and that attitude.
I mean Palmer and kind of some of these guys had sort of that bruising attitude, but he
was the guy who came up to the range, had a cigarette in his mouth.
Yeah.
I saw him at Doral.
I saw him in Miami at Doral and he, and he had to go from one corner of the range to
the other opposite corner.
Wow.
He took a cigarette, went back to the putting green, hit three pots and went to the first
tee.
Right.
But he was the guy.
He was the tee it high, let it fly guy.
But there again, you're talking about the technology.
The technology now has gotten so much more advanced that you can play a cut and it'll
go just as long as John Daly's big draw back then.
Wow.
Yeah, true.
Yeah.
And the, and the golf ball's really juiced too.
Yeah.
Everything is.
Hey, this has been great.
We got, like I said, with each of each one of these guys, I know we could do a follow
up episode, right?
I love it.
It's good stuff for our listeners.
So I hope you enjoyed it.
Really enjoyed it.
Nice to chat with your team, Sean.
Yeah.
Always good to chat.
That's it.
Thanks for inviting me.
Yeah.
Thanks for, thanks for coming on.
We really appreciate you coming onto the dynamic podcast show.
We really appreciate it.
This has been very interesting.
So I'm super excited.
Thank you, Phil.
Thanks, T-Mac.
Thanks guys.
All right, T-Mac.
Have a good one.
We'll see you soon.