1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:18,800 Sit back and get ready to take off with Dynamic Golf. 2 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,800 So welcome back Dynamic Golf listeners. 3 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,560 I'm your host Tim McElvanagh and with me is my fellow co-host Sean Klotz. 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,320 Sean, who's our guest today? 5 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,400 Hey T-Mac and hey Dynamic listeners. 6 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,040 I feel like this is a really good get. 7 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,240 I say that a couple of times throughout our times we've been doing this. 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:40,160 But Phil O'Neill is a club president up at Oakley Country Club and I've known Phil for 9 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:41,680 basically about six months now. 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,320 I feel like we're lifelong friends because he's just got a great personality. 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,520 Phil, just kind of introduce yourself to our listeners and maybe give us a little background 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,520 of kind of where you came from, what you've been doing. 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:52,520 Sure, sure. 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,560 You got 50 minutes to Phil. 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,440 Yeah, no, Sean, thank you. 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:58,440 Thank you, T-Mac. 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:00:59,920 Pleasure to be here with Sean. 18 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:04,040 We're at Oakley Country Club here in the Boston area. 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,000 Yeah, as Sean mentioned, my name is Phil O'Neill. 20 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,200 I am currently the president of Oakley Country Club. 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,960 Not from the area originally. 22 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:19,720 Born and raised in Ireland, you know, in the southeast originally. 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,160 And then we finally moved to the northwest, which is where I was introduced to golf. 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:29,640 And, you know, came to the US in the late 90s for work. 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:36,840 Kind of a cliche really, you know, came for a year and 25 years later, we're still here. 26 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,040 So it's been wonderful. 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,040 It's been just wonderful. 28 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,360 We've enjoyed every minute of it. 29 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:49,760 We've been very fortunate that we had the opportunity to come to the US and, you know, 30 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,000 we've had three kids born here. 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,800 We've been in the Boston area the whole time. 32 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,640 Kind of a golf family, right? 33 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:57,640 Yeah, very, yeah. 34 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,800 Very fortunate that Connor plays, Kate plays. 35 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,520 Yeah, Gail has taken it up. 36 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:09,920 My wife in the last few years, Laura can play, but doesn't necessarily enjoy it as much, 37 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:10,920 you know. 38 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:12,920 But I'm very fortunate. 39 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:18,120 I mean, I think for us all to be in the game of golf, you know, my dad got me into golf 40 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,120 when I was about 13. 41 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,360 How many times do we hear that, Tim? 42 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:23,360 A lot. 43 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,320 Right about the age of 13, 10 to 13 is about the big golden age. 44 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,320 It is, it is. 45 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,520 I was, it was very, I had, I was actually, you know, in Ireland at that time, you know, 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,680 we're talking early 80s, Sean and Tim back and it was, you know, so it was very much 47 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:37,680 a men's game. 48 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:38,680 Okay. 49 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,360 You know, there wasn't a lot of ladies playing and there wasn't a lot of kids. 50 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,920 So kids were supposed to be seen and not heard. 51 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:47,000 I tell my kids that all the time. 52 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,000 They don't listen though. 53 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:53,520 So yeah, I actually, I picked up a sport, the head injury playing football. 54 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,640 And so I had no, I was given a mandate, no contact sport for a year. 55 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:05,080 So I headed out to the golf course with my dad and, and, and very quickly kind of picked 56 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,240 up the game and just fell in love with it and have played ever since, you know, and 57 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:14,520 then you play like on a collegiate level sort of how does it, yeah, it's, it's a little 58 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:15,520 bit different. 59 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,960 The school scene in Ireland is a little bit more like the collegiate scene in the U S 60 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:21,960 college golf. 61 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,320 So there's really, at the time it was only like five universities in Ireland. 62 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,680 So there wasn't a lot of schools and hence there wasn't really the ability to have any 63 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,360 kind of competitive league. 64 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,360 Okay. 65 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:37,440 You know, so, so college golf was not, was not huge in the eighties growing up. 66 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,320 And in fact, as I mentioned earlier, junior golf wasn't huge. 67 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:46,600 So if you were able, if you were able to kind of play and, and, and progress, you know, 68 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,760 you could, you know, you could represent your, your, your club, you could represent your 69 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,840 province and you can represent your country, you know, so, but at high school we ended 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,560 up with a really strong golf program and a great bunch of guys. 71 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:07,040 We won like five national championships in our, in our high years and your three, five 72 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,000 man teams and three, two, three man team. 73 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,680 The three man team is actually a world golf event. 74 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,880 So I don't know if you're familiar with the world golf Federation. 75 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:21,920 It was a kind of junior global junior golf program and they held world championships, 76 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,760 which we qualified for. 77 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,440 I played in 1987 in Fox Hills and Surrey, England. 78 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,160 And that was a really good experience. 79 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,320 You know, it was a, you know, four days of metal play and a really tough course. 80 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,880 I mean, the European Q school used to be held at Fox Hills and David Furti tells a great 81 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:41,880 story. 82 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:47,480 He says, no, he said, if, if they hadn't moved the Q school out of Fox Hills, he would, he 83 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,760 would never become a pro because he couldn't break baby. 84 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,720 But, but so, yeah. 85 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,880 And then so college then it's a bit of a, you know, a lot of good kids. 86 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,840 So at that time, you know, Darren Tarpe is in the program. 87 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:06,640 He was a year older than I was, Port Carrington is a year younger than I am. 88 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,240 So we were right in that mix. 89 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:15,040 And so a lot of those kids took a break after high school, you know, a year or two to try 90 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,960 and focus on amateur golf. 91 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,040 And you know, again, you know, you have to be lucky enough to be able to do that. 92 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:27,000 You know, I didn't, I went straight from high school to university and kind of golf took 93 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,360 a bit of a backseat, you know, from, you know, that. 94 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,360 Did you know or any regrets in your world? 95 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,320 Like, did you, did you know like you maybe weren't as top notch as Darren Clark or the 96 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,680 more about resources type of thing? 97 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:48,560 I would put it simply in a, he was like, he was the most talented amateur in Ireland by 98 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:49,560 far. 99 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:50,560 Right. 100 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:55,760 He was so naturally gifted, you know, all striking, incredible. 101 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,320 And that, so he was on that path. 102 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,760 But, you know, others like my very good friend, Francis Howley, who's now the head pro at 103 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:10,400 Portmarnock in Dublin, which is a wonderful golf course and facility. 104 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,800 Francie turned pro and, and, you know, he got his tour card same year as Portmarnock 105 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,640 got his, Portmarnock Harrington. 106 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,160 You know, so, and I, you know, I was close enough, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. 107 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:28,840 I mean, I was in total with Francis for the, you know, the years of like 14 to 19 time 108 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:29,840 thing. 109 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:30,840 Okay. 110 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,600 And then, but the opportunity wasn't there and it wasn't, it wasn't encouraged. 111 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:34,600 It wasn't promoted. 112 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,160 Like the European tour was, I mean, it was amazing. 113 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,320 There wasn't a lot of money in the game back then. 114 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,040 And so, you know, when you were coming out of high school, it was like, do you want to 115 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:47,880 be a doctor or a priest? 116 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:54,160 Those were the kind of the two questions you were asked in Ireland. 117 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,080 And you know, so golf wasn't really on the menu. 118 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,240 It wasn't, it wasn't an option per se. 119 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,240 So, but, you know, that's how I got into the game and that's how I grew to love it. 120 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,840 And then, you know, came to the US and for work and, you know, and my wife's Irish as 121 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:10,840 well. 122 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:16,120 So she, she came over with, we were just married and then, you know, you start a family and 123 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,680 you're busy and stuff like that. 124 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,600 So, you know, I played around the Boston area, you know, tournaments, invitational charity 125 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:23,920 events, that type of thing. 126 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:28,320 And then in 2010, somebody said, hey, you should look into joining Oakley. 127 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:34,440 And so I came up for a practice round and, you know, had a great, a great day. 128 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:39,840 And then they were offering a, you know, a trial program for, for new members. 129 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:46,400 I jumped on that and, and then kind of became a full member on January 1st, 2011. 130 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,120 And it's been, it's been wonderful. 131 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,560 It's a team act, you know, you're, I'm sitting here with Sean, as we said, but it's a wonderful, 132 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,040 it's a, it's the first Donald Ross course. 133 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,680 We celebrated our 125th last year. 134 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:00,680 Congratulations. 135 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:01,680 Yeah. 136 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:08,000 So Ross came over from Dornock in Scotland and his first job was Oakley Country Club. 137 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:16,200 And he, you know, he's gone on to design and build a pretty good career. 138 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,400 So but yeah, so we're very proud of that. 139 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:23,000 And you know, we probably, we could do a better job letting people know that this is the first 140 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,000 Ross course. 141 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,560 But I think we started to get better at that. 142 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:33,240 And, and yeah, but really I think what, what, what makes Oakley special for me, I think, 143 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,080 and most of the members is just the membership of the people here. 144 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,440 And it's not your typical country club culture. 145 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:48,360 And you know, people are super friendly, super nice, engaging, you know, you just feel welcome, 146 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:54,760 I think, when you come to Oakley, regardless of who you are, what you're doing. 147 00:08:54,760 --> 00:09:00,720 And I think that's really the, that's the special, special sauce, you know, for Oakley 148 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,000 here, you know, the course obviously is spectacular. 149 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,080 And you know, it's a, it's not long, it's, it's, you know, but it's a true Ross course 150 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,640 in terms of the green complexes. 151 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,240 You know, some of the Irish amateurs I spoke about, they're now have come through here 152 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:24,320 from time to time and they're, they're like, just absolutely terrorized by our green complex. 153 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,240 And these are all like really good golfers. 154 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,400 So it's, it's, it's, it stands up. 155 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:30,400 It stands up. 156 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:31,400 It definitely does. 157 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:32,400 It really does, Sean. 158 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,400 For 125 year old golfers. 159 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,880 Yeah, it stands up over time. 160 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,800 Tim, I think you should be like an honorary member after what we've done this summer with 161 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,320 our interview and our local youth. 162 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,160 I was going to, I was going to say, you know, Phil is, is, you know, I think he's, he's, 163 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,360 he's definitely right. 164 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,440 Every member that I've talked to on this podcast has been very warm, opening, welcoming. 165 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,160 I've worked at private facilities. 166 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,880 I've met the, the presidents and the board members and they're not usually very friendly 167 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,840 or very open to people. 168 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,520 And it's, it's very, it's very unique and you can tell that it's a very special place 169 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,640 that you guys have there. 170 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,400 You got to, you got a little piece of heaven right there. 171 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,080 We do with everybody that, that, that, you know, is welcoming to come on here and talk 172 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,740 to us and everything. 173 00:10:17,740 --> 00:10:19,600 You've got a great facility right there. 174 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,520 I think the thing is the pride Tim. 175 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,920 So now I'm kind of like starting to become the insider, you know, at the beginning of 176 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,680 the summer, I was the outsider guy and starting to become kind of the part of the inside crew, 177 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:31,680 whatever, if that makes sense. 178 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:37,160 And there's pride in every member you talk to, you know, they're appreciative. 179 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:42,520 That's another term I would use for the membership and what they've got, you know, and it does, 180 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,120 it just takes them, you know, a couple of, go to a couple of different golf courses in 181 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:51,600 the area and you realize the dedication, the superintendent has the dedication, the greens 182 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:56,840 committee chairman has kind of like directing and the board directing the superintendent 183 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,720 is it's a really good team atmosphere. 184 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,440 And like you're talking about T Mac and we're not going to name names on courses in the 185 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:04,440 Tampa area. 186 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:09,560 We couldn't private facilities that you feel like you're an outsider all the time when 187 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:10,560 you walk in. 188 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:16,120 Um, but this one is, uh, this one, this one's different when you walk into the parking lot, 189 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,120 you know, the goal is essentially that you don't touch your bag, um, that you feel like 190 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,840 you're a guest for the day if you are a guest. 191 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,320 And then that, that typically has led to probably many memberships in the past too. 192 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:28,320 Oh yeah. 193 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,280 They feel that experience they have. 194 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:31,480 Yeah, they really do. 195 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:32,640 I mean, no, and you're very kind. 196 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:37,520 I mean, I think it is, it is all of that, you know, Oakley is all of that. 197 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:42,920 And you know, and our location as well, we're right here in the city, we're in the city 198 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,080 right now actually. 199 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:51,680 So it's a, it's, you know, we're, we're a short, we're a short spin into, into downtown 200 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:58,480 Boston and you know, and I think, you know, we're starting to see a lot of new young, 201 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:04,040 um, members, you know, who are working in the city, see how easy it is to shoot up Sturrow 202 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,920 Drive and get to Oakley in a few minutes. 203 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:12,840 And, and, and that's really starting to, um, really starting to help the club and the position 204 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:18,240 the club to be, you know, really in a strong, in a strong position for, for years to come 205 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,480 and both in terms of the, the membership and, and, and the families that, you know, come 206 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,120 with the new members as well. 207 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,120 That's great. 208 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,600 Uh, it hasn't always been that way, right? 209 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,120 So talk to me like from 2010 to 2024, there was, wasn't there a period of time when you 210 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,440 guys were looking for members? 211 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:35,440 Oh yeah, yeah. 212 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:41,400 We had, yeah, like, I mean, you know, I'm sure every club has similar story, but yeah. 213 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:47,400 So from, you know, 2010, I mentioned the trial program that was an initiative to try to encourage 214 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:52,640 people to come and, you know, try out the course without having to put down, you know, 215 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,120 any significant money. 216 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,160 Was that literally the much I don't want to hear about it? 217 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,800 Was that literally like 2008 real estate boom kind of goes down? 218 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,720 Yeah, it was. 219 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:02,720 It really was. 220 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,440 And, you know, and there was another couple of factors. 221 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:11,680 It was funny, you know, when I was interviewed, when I was interviewed for the, the, um, to 222 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:17,320 become a member, um, you know, at the club, you know, one of the selling points from the 223 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,400 membership committee was how great the greens were. 224 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:21,400 Right. 225 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,520 But when you went back out to play the greens, they were not great. 226 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:26,520 Okay. 227 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,360 Or actually really bad. 228 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,640 And so the course, we had a superintendent at the time, you know, names won't, won't 229 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:39,000 be mentioned, but, um, you know, the, the course was not in good shape and members were 230 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000 not happy. 231 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,440 Members were not new members were not joining, I think as a big result of that. 232 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:52,360 Um, and you know, that's when we got our new superintendent that joined in 2012, I think. 233 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:57,920 And he just turned the place around and, and, you know, the course became just pristine. 234 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,840 People really kind of, you know, started to recognize, wow, it can really be like this, 235 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,080 you know, and, uh, level of expectation. 236 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:05,080 Yeah. 237 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:06,080 Right. 238 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:07,080 Yeah. 239 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,080 Like again, yeah. 240 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,080 Yeah. 241 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,240 And we're, you know, eight miles from downtown or not even eight miles, five miles from 242 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:12,240 downtown Boston. 243 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,240 Wow. 244 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,960 So there's a level of expectation that kind of the membership has and sort of the people 245 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:19,560 have around this area. 246 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,440 Um, you've some pretty stiff competition. 247 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:23,440 Yeah. 248 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:24,440 As far as private. 249 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:25,440 Oh yeah. 250 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:26,440 Absolutely. 251 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:27,440 The country club. 252 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:28,440 Yeah, exactly. 253 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,200 I mean, uh, and you can keep going to what we keep on a little. 254 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,200 Oh yeah. 255 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,000 Well, you got a lot of money in that area. 256 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,520 You've got a lot of prestige in that area and you've got to, you've got to build your 257 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,440 product to, to, to match what you're looking for. 258 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:41,440 I would imagine. 259 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:42,440 Yeah. 260 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:48,120 And, and that is a great, that's a super point Tim, because I think as well, you know, 261 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,720 you know, the God, the game of golf and the golf industry and country clubs are evolving 262 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:53,720 all the time and changing. 263 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,200 And if you don't, if you don't recognize that, and if you can't move and have change and 264 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,240 evolve with that, you're going to, you know, you're going to hit a few bumps. 265 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:02,240 Yeah. 266 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,680 And you know, and, and I think, you know, so much of it has to do with, with getting 267 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,240 the right people involved, people who really have, I mean, you know, we're lucky again 268 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:16,800 because we have so many members here that really love this place and, and there's, there's 269 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,920 so generous with their time. 270 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:24,960 The volunteers so much of their time to, you know, be it on committees or, you know, 271 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,920 simulator redesigning simulator rooms. 272 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:28,920 It's like, it's endless. 273 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,200 It goes on and on, but, but, but, you know, getting the right group of people together 274 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,560 at the committee level. 275 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,840 And then even more importantly, at the board level is just so important. 276 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:38,840 Yeah. 277 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:44,040 Because if you don't have people who really understand what's going on and how the club 278 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:50,760 needs to evolve, how, how the whole, how you, how you make the changes to stay relevant 279 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:56,920 and keep pace in a city like Boston, you know, you can get behind really quickly, you know, 280 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,040 things can go sideways pretty quickly. 281 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,320 So I think that's really important. 282 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,480 How do you, so talk to us about, again, kind of like from that, we can use Oakley as the 283 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,400 footprint, no question about it from, from becoming the club president. 284 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:10,400 Yeah. 285 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,240 Like is there a, you're vice president first type of thing. 286 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,120 Cause you all see that training to see it. 287 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:17,120 It's right. 288 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,120 It really is. 289 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:24,240 I mean, there's a, you know, it's, it's so, you know, you really, in order to do the job, 290 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,600 in order to be a board member first, you really know, have to know the ins and outs of the 291 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,880 workings of a facility, of an organization like, like Oakley, right. 292 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:34,880 Or any country. 293 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:35,880 Right. 294 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:36,880 Everybody, you know, you have your second business. 295 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,920 We could be talking about any country. 296 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:44,320 You have your, you have your systems, your policies, your staff, you know, all your nuances 297 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,920 and you really need to understand how the place functions and takes over to be on the 298 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,480 board and then even more so to be president. 299 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,720 So, so how it works here is, you know, you, you, you volunteer to join a committee. 300 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:02,320 I became golf chair and I joined the golf committee and then I became golf chair. 301 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,880 And then from golf chair, I was, you know, asked and it's, it's a huge honor, obviously, 302 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:13,560 you know, it's a, it's really the president and vice president's prerogative to pick the 303 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,480 next president or vice president. 304 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:22,200 When I say pick and nominate and, and, you know, and then, you know, they're put forward 305 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:28,080 to the nominating committee, the nominating committee then votes on who they believe is 306 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,400 the best person for a job. 307 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,460 So there is a full process there and that, and every stage of that is very important. 308 00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:40,480 So once you're asked, you're vice president, you're vice president for two years and then 309 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,520 you take president for two years. 310 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,840 So two year terms and then you leave the board. 311 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:52,380 And so you do, you do have to think carefully about your board and your committees because 312 00:17:52,380 --> 00:17:57,520 you want the right people cycling through and you can't just, you can't just, you know, 313 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,320 pat it down in the, in the bar, hey, do you want to be president next? 314 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:03,600 It's like, it doesn't work like that. 315 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,600 And you need the knowledge, you need the institutional knowledge to really, to be able to do the 316 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:09,600 job effectively. 317 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:10,600 Yeah. 318 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:11,600 You know, 319 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,400 so would you say, Phil, that in your time that you've been there, you've seen not just 320 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,200 a change in the membership, but also a change in the training program from, you know, one 321 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,200 stage to the next. 322 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,800 Have you seen a lot of passion in that? 323 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,760 I take it, it seems like that they're, they're, they're working hard on how to train the next, 324 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,480 you know, president, vice president, so on and so forth. 325 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:31,480 Yeah. 326 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,560 To a certain extent, that's, that's right. 327 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:34,560 T Mac. 328 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,600 I think the, the, the big thing, like in so many things, it's all about the people and 329 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,800 you know, the country club needs great staff. 330 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,800 Like, and, and I think that's really something that we have focused on in the last number 331 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:52,160 of years, you know, so we, you know, like people like Sean here, you know, we need people 332 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:58,000 like we need more people like Sean, we look for, for, for the talent that's out there 333 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,120 because that's what's really going to make the difference. 334 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,840 Like we need, you know, at the end of the day, we're hiring professionals, whether it's 335 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:10,240 golf professionals, whether it's superintendent, greenskeepers, you know, grounds, groundskeepers, 336 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:17,720 but also clubhouse manager, you know, executive chef and the kitchen staff, the bar staff, 337 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:18,720 the service staff. 338 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:25,200 I mean, these are all professional people who we, who we rely on to do a great job and 339 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,080 they just do a wonderful job. 340 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:33,280 And I think in years gone by, that wasn't always the case, you know, and, and the continuity 341 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,720 of having Pat and Scott just from the incredible, incredible, yeah. 342 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:38,720 Yeah. 343 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:39,720 Yeah. 344 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:40,720 Through the process. 345 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,240 And just, you know, you have to, you have to recognize that and do the right thing. 346 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:48,280 Like, like make it easy for these guys to stay here, make it easy for our staff to stay 347 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,280 here. 348 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:50,280 They want to be here. 349 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:51,280 They like the job. 350 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,280 It's rewarding. 351 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,280 It's challenging. 352 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,280 They're well compensated. 353 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,440 Like that's, you know, that's what you have to do, especially in a competitive market 354 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:04,120 like Boston where like you've got, you know, a dozen clubs, TMAC within like 20 minute 355 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:10,040 drive, you know, and, and it's, you know, so, so I think recognizing some of that TMAC 356 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,480 is really, is really important. 357 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,120 And you know, finding people, good people, and then keeping them. 358 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:21,360 And then they start to, as you mentioned, train other staff, other members, bring people 359 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:22,360 up to speed. 360 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:23,360 Right. 361 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,440 It's a, it's a constant, constant process. 362 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,160 I think the other big thing is communication, you know, trying to be transparent with as 363 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,560 much as you can with the membership about what we're doing, where the club is going, 364 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:39,560 how the club is, is, you know, is it financially sound, you know, what are the big projects 365 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,600 we're going to spend the money on, you know, so, cause again, we're all owners who've got 366 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,280 340 bondholders, everybody's an owner. 367 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,800 And so I think it's important to, to be as transparent as possible. 368 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,120 You know, you can't go through everything, but, but, but, you know, we try to do that 369 00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,120 as best we can. 370 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:03,080 And those are some of the, I think things that have, I think helped the club and you 371 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,280 know, we're pretty healthy now. 372 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,360 We've got a good waiting list across our member categories. 373 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:10,080 And you know, so. 374 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:19,880 Kind of like the juniors, the juniors team, we call juniors kind of that 24 to 32, 33 375 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,680 year old type of thing. 376 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:22,680 Okay. 377 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:28,040 And those guys are, you can just tell they're kind of the next sort of batch or recruits 378 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,800 we'll call them. 379 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,880 It is without a doubt the fastest growing group right there in the game of golf right 380 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,840 now, the 24 to 30 year olds, they are just coming on strong and a ton of them. 381 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:45,120 And they have wealth, you know, they are, they're not like us back in the day, you know, 382 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:48,880 we couldn't get two nickels to rub together, but these kids have, you know, high prominent 383 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,240 jobs and income to dispose of. 384 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,240 And they are the highest group of golfers coming out right now. 385 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,240 Yeah. 386 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,400 No question about it. 387 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:57,400 We see it. 388 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,400 We see it here, Tim. 389 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:04,040 I mean, the number of applicants in that, in that age bracket is off the charts. 390 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:09,480 And it's something we're kind of acutely aware of and trying to see how best to manage that 391 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:10,480 going forward. 392 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:17,480 And while also keeping the legacy people, the guys who have been supporting the club. 393 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:18,480 100%. 394 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,480 Right. 395 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:27,640 We're very focused and, you know, have been and hopefully will continue to be, take the 396 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:33,800 right steps when it comes to protecting the legacy members and legacy member families 397 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,000 as best we can, you know. 398 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,760 And, and, and I think that's really important, you know, and, and, 399 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,600 So TMAC, though, one of the things you just kind of touched on, I don't know if you meant 400 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,000 to touch on it, but like these, these younger generation and it's ladies and men, by the 401 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,000 way, 402 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,000 Oh yeah. 403 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,000 It's not just men. 404 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:56,040 Very successful 25 to 35 year old ladies that I know that are kind of becoming part of the 405 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,040 club too. 406 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,720 They're coming from colleges and universities. 407 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:08,160 I mean, one of Boston's biggest economic imprints or footprints is the universities and the colleges 408 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,160 around here. 409 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,160 Right. 410 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:17,320 So they're from, again, BU, BC, they're spending 60 to $80,000 a year to go to these schools. 411 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:23,120 So when they come up, they're getting jobs that are, you know, ideally 75 to $200,000 412 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:24,120 jobs. 413 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:28,000 Whereas we're a little different than our temple world where, you know, university is 414 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,000 not, 415 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,160 It's not even negative, it's just kind of the way it is, right? 416 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,840 If Florida's two hours away, Florida State's two and four hours away, you know, University 417 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,360 of South Florida is right there, but it's just different. 418 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,560 The economic factors that go into, 419 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,000 And South Florida is more of a suitcase college too. 420 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,520 So you know, you don't have that, you don't have those kids staying around as soon as 421 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,040 college is gone or class is gone. 422 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,000 They're back to wherever it is, Miami or Orlando or wherever it is. 423 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,000 Yeah. 424 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,000 Right. 425 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,360 And like these kids that were talking about this, these are generational kids, like they're 426 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:08,800 grandfathers, they're great, they've lived in Winchester, Belmont, you know, Watertown, 427 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:09,800 Brookline. 428 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:10,800 Yeah. 429 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,280 They've lived here for generations. 430 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:19,600 Florida, that Tampa area, you know, what a house is old if it's 1960, right? 431 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,600 Yeah, exactly. 432 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,720 It's the oldest golf course that we know of is in Claywater, right? 433 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:26,720 Or St. Pete. 434 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:27,720 It's still there, Bel Air. 435 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,920 But that's in 1918, totally different than our courses up here. 436 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,240 So it just translates the membership, it kind of, you see it in different parts of the operation. 437 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,520 Well, the history up there, I mean, it's just so much richer, it's deeper. 438 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:48,360 I mean, you've got, I mean, just littered with pros and history and that just breeds 439 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:53,720 and feeds, you know, younger generations and traditional golfers, you know, family golfers 440 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,720 throughout the time. 441 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,720 Does it remind you of Ireland though? 442 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,160 Does it remind you of Ireland? 443 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,800 Oh, yeah, it definitely does. 444 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:00,800 It definitely does. 445 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,440 I mean, I think, you know, golf is huge in Ireland now, obviously. 446 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:12,720 I mean, it's just, it's so different than it was back in the late, early 90s. 447 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:13,720 It's taken off. 448 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:22,120 It's, you know, it really is, it's more like it is here now than it was. 449 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:23,120 The exposure. 450 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:24,120 Yeah, the exposure. 451 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:25,120 Now, what's the access? 452 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:31,120 The thing you said before, like, are our kids, our juniors, our ladies much more accepted? 453 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:32,120 Oh, yeah. 454 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:33,120 It's night and day. 455 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,120 Yeah, it's night and day. 456 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:35,560 I mean, yeah, absolutely. 457 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:42,760 You know, it's, it's, you know, as I said, just the access, the availability, the quality 458 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:43,760 of the golf courses. 459 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,040 I mean, you know, it's just incredible. 460 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,280 You know, I mean, like we, one of the good, like growing up there, you took it, you just 461 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,280 took it for granted. 462 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,160 You were walking, you know, you're playing, you're Strand Hill, Ross Point, you know, 463 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,280 Ennis Scroo and those are of course, we're all like, they're all like top 100 courses 464 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,760 are just amazing. 465 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,760 True links golf. 466 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:03,760 Yeah. 467 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,800 And you would go out and play and it was, you would be the only person on the course, 468 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,080 you know, and it was, it was just a different time. 469 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,600 But, but, you know, it was looking back, it was pretty special to be able to do that and 470 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,120 play those courses because now it's like, it's so different. 471 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:24,400 And now, you know, unfortunately as well, the downside of the, the downside of the exposure 472 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,640 and that how they've marketed what they have, which is amazing. 473 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:28,640 Right. 474 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,400 But like, what green fees and things like that are getting really expensive. 475 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:37,600 You know, I mean, I, we used to play a lot of junior underage, you know, with the Irish 476 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,960 panel and teams in the hinge player West course. 477 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,240 It was a desk, it was like a four weekends a year in the hinge. 478 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:50,840 We would turn up and get coached by John Gardner first, then it was David Jones. 479 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,840 And, and, you know, but like, and it's a wonderful spot, but now it's 400 euros now to play the 480 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:57,840 hinge. 481 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:58,840 Right. 482 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,720 It's like, it's right up there with, you know, I don't know what Pebble Beach is these days, 483 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:08,200 but it's, but you know, it's, it's, that's the other side that's gone with it, but still 484 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,440 there are obviously the courses are busy now. 485 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:11,440 They're packed. 486 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,440 They're doing really well. 487 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:17,520 And which is great because you know, now those courses are able to kind of put some money 488 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:23,600 back into the facility, the clubhouse, the course, and, and, you know, keep that whole 489 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,200 thing, you know, at the level it should be, you know, 490 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,960 Is it kind of getting to the point? 491 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,280 So Scott Johnson, you know, team, I can listen to their Scott Johnson is our head professional 492 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,280 here. 493 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:34,280 Been here for 24 years. 494 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,280 Just an amazing guy. 495 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,280 Great guy. 496 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,280 Great guy. 497 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,560 He's going, he just booked the trip down to Pinehurst. 498 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,680 But the thing is, you know, I can listen to it. 499 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:43,680 He's not playing Pinehurst. 500 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,920 No, because there's so many golf courses around there, around there that are worth playing. 501 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,720 So kind of the same idea, like, yeah, you might go to Old Head in Ireland, but how many 502 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,560 great golf courses are right around it? 503 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,560 Exactly. 504 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:56,560 Whatever. 505 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,560 Yeah. 506 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:58,560 Those are exactly the same thing. 507 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,200 You might, you know, the ones in Ireland, obviously that stick out or, you know, Old 508 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,800 Head is a, is a, you know, more of a recent addition, but you know, poor Marnock in Dublin 509 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:06,800 is just special. 510 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,800 That's where Ross came from. 511 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,560 No, Ross came from Dornal. 512 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:11,560 Dornal, sorry. 513 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:12,560 I can say Stockton. 514 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:13,560 Okay. 515 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,160 And then obviously Roy County down, which is just obviously amazing. 516 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,560 It's always hitting the lists. 517 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:18,560 British Open. 518 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:24,160 You know, for, well, the British Open was held in Royport Rush, which is not far away 519 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,880 in the same northern part of the country. 520 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,640 And yeah, that was interesting because, you know, it's, it's, it's Northern Ireland and 521 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,280 the British Open was going to play there. 522 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,800 So it was kind of a first in a long, long time. 523 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,720 And it's there again next year. 524 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:39,720 So it's it. 525 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:40,720 Yeah. 526 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,560 So they're going back to Royport Rush, which will be, which will be great. 527 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:46,560 It was a great open. 528 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:47,920 It's the one that Lowry won. 529 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:48,920 Lowry. 530 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,800 So, which was pretty special, but yeah, it's, have you played with him at all? 531 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:55,800 No, Lowry's younger. 532 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:56,800 Yeah. 533 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:57,800 How old Shane is now? 534 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,800 Maybe he's himself a McIlroyer, I think 36, 37. 535 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,800 Right around there. 536 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:12,400 So, but no, he, I know, but I mean, big fan of Lowry, big fan of his game, big fan of 537 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,400 his attitude. 538 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,440 He's a fun guy. 539 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,840 And yeah, so, but yeah, no, it's like that, Sean. 540 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,200 There's so many good unknown courses that you can, I think that's the beauty of it, 541 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,200 right? 542 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,400 You go to play the ones you've heard of like Travée, Valley Bunyan, then around the corners 543 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:37,160 Dukes and there's all these other great courses that are maybe not like getting headline, 544 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,280 but they're, they're really great tracks and fun to play, you know? 545 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,280 And it's so yeah. 546 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:48,640 So Ireland is definitely, they've definitely really figured out the whole golf destination 547 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,960 slash trips for sure. 548 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:53,960 You know? 549 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,360 Now, Phil, let me ask you as a kid growing up, I've heard some of the great golf courses 550 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,640 that you had, who are some of the great influences for your golf game? 551 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,080 So I think at the time, Tim, I think good, good question. 552 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:10,320 So I mean, I'm not sure if these names will resonate, but you know, you've, so Chris O'Connor, 553 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,820 yeah, Chris O'Connor senior was like a real ambassador for Irish golf. 554 00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:24,600 He was really great player back in the 50s, 60s, 70s and then his nephew, Chris O'Connor 555 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:25,600 Jr. 556 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,360 I think that's the one I remember. 557 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:28,360 Yeah. 558 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,920 So you'll remember the two ironing hit into the belt three in the rider cup, which was 559 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:39,760 like, you know, this incredible two iron on the last hole of the rider cup to beat, beat 560 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:45,280 the U S for, you know, I mean, you know, I think that the U S has won maybe 39 rider 561 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,800 cups in a row. 562 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:50,800 Pretty one sided. 563 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,600 Before, yeah, before Europe started to kind of figure it out. 564 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,960 But it's, but he was a big influence. 565 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:01,680 Chris O'Connor Jr. and then you went on to have people like Des Smith, you know, if Ferdy 566 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,080 himself was, was a player, I think he won six times in Europe. 567 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,400 He's a really good player. 568 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,080 And you know, so those were the influence at the time. 569 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,840 And obviously, you know, being closely aligned to England as well, you were, you know, you're 570 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,880 the Nick Fallows of the world and Howard Clarks and these guys. 571 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:20,880 Yeah, yeah. 572 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:21,880 Yeah. 573 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:27,280 So, but yeah, in Ireland, those would have been the influences, TMAC, you know, the those 574 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,280 were the guys. 575 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,000 And then you had your own, you know, you had your pro at your own club, you know, our pro 576 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,000 was Brian Malone. 577 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:40,280 He had a pretty good amateur career, pretty good professional career, you know, before 578 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:46,040 he ended up at Strand Hill in Sligo. 579 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,080 So your dad is a decent player? 580 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,480 Yeah, he's probably like a seven or eight handicapped. 581 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:51,480 Yeah, that's pretty good. 582 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:52,480 Yeah. 583 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,560 He was some of dad was how we ended up. 584 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,760 So I was born in Westford, southeast of Ireland. 585 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,560 And then my dad changed jobs. 586 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,080 So he was in he was in agricultural science. 587 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,080 Okay. 588 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:10,960 So he did was involved in land reclamation projects, initially for the government and 589 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,920 then for a private company. 590 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,560 So in Ireland, the west of Ireland, the land is not great. 591 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:22,680 So from an agricultural perspective, it's it's kind of wet and stony and not not as 592 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,920 fertile as East Coast or certainly the south. 593 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:26,920 Okay. 594 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,720 So he worked for a company in Sligo that did a lot of land reclamation projects. 595 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:33,720 Right. 596 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,160 So that's how the process what we moved. 597 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,160 Okay. 598 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,320 And I moved just like kind of finishing elementary school going into high school around that 599 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,320 time. 600 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,320 I was like 10, 11. 601 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:43,320 Yeah. 602 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,840 So that's how we ended up in the northwest. 603 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:53,280 And that's that's how big soccer fan or you know, there's the Irish sports, you're curling 604 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:54,280 and football. 605 00:32:54,280 --> 00:33:02,680 We would have been the primary sports in growing up in school, you know, in your town and local 606 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,600 teams as soccer was pretty big was big, equally big. 607 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:07,600 Okay. 608 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,560 And rugby at the time wasn't as big. 609 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:11,560 But now it's huge. 610 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:12,560 Yeah. 611 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:13,560 And the sports was huge. 612 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:20,160 I mean, yeah, the schools, you know, the grown up in in Ireland sport was was big. 613 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,160 Right. 614 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,160 Yeah. 615 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,560 And you know, a lot of schools in Ireland at the time were, you know, those convents. 616 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:32,180 So the girls would go to the convent and then the boys would go to an old boys school. 617 00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:38,480 So that even made it more kind of the focus and attention to sport and competitive sport 618 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:39,480 huge. 619 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,160 But again, football, hurling, soccer, not so much golf. 620 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:49,280 Well, the golf in our school became huge in secondary school. 621 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:56,800 And then there's a, you know, we do some very good competitive national program or league 622 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,800 like annual tournaments, you know. 623 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,880 See, Mac, I got a question I'm going to ask you first. 624 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:02,880 Okay. 625 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,760 It's going to lead to a question for Phil. 626 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:05,760 Okay. 627 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,080 So you got two daughters, is that correct? 628 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,640 Yes, sir. 629 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:10,640 That I know of. 630 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,240 I mean, they're ages again, because they were like little when I was there, but now they're 631 00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:14,240 old, I think. 632 00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:16,440 I've got one that's two and one that's five. 633 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,440 There you go. 634 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,440 Oh, wow. 635 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,440 That's awesome. 636 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,520 The five year old I've been seeing on YouTube a little bit swinging with you. 637 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:24,520 Yeah. 638 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:25,520 Yep. 639 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,760 She's been swinging a little bit, getting her into the game of golf. 640 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,480 I'd started her at about age two. 641 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,720 So she's been swinging since about three. 642 00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:35,120 And I've got the other one, the younger one swinging to love it. 643 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:36,120 Love it. 644 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,600 And the question to you, and it's going to be coming to Phil here in a second, is kind 645 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,840 of because I see him working with his kids or I see him playing with his kids. 646 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:43,840 His kids are great that I know. 647 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,960 I know Connor and Kate really well, don't know Laura as much. 648 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:48,960 Haven't seen her as much. 649 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:54,720 But what kind of like, you know, maybe general again, but like what tips, what are you going 650 00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:59,240 to tell the youngsters, the five year old, the two year old, like what are the major 651 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:03,000 things that you kind of try to get them to start doing even at that age? 652 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,320 And then again, Phil's kids are a little bit older. 653 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,800 My girl's a little bit older, but sort of, you know. 654 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,480 Really the big thing I do at that age is I just try to get them to stand correctly and 655 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:19,360 hold the club correctly at that point, you know, at age five and, you know, two, I'm 656 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,000 just trying to get them into the position. 657 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,740 They always want to hold it with their left hand low and swing it that way. 658 00:35:26,740 --> 00:35:31,180 So getting them to kind of reverse that a little bit and then just getting the sand, 659 00:35:31,180 --> 00:35:34,720 you know, stand square to their target line. 660 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:37,240 At this age, I just want them to swing the club and have fun. 661 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,920 If they're laughing and having fun, then we continue on. 662 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,040 But once they start kind of, you know, getting tired, it's, it's pull it back and let's 663 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,960 find something else, some other activity to do. 664 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:47,960 I love it. 665 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:48,960 Well, yeah. 666 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,040 What do you, what do you worry about interlock grip at five years old? 667 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,920 No, no, at this point I'm just trying to get the right hand below the left hand. 668 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,360 If they have a baseball grip, so be it. 669 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,000 We'll get to that grip later on, but just trying to get the hands in the right position 670 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,480 and the feet somewhat spread apart and, and towards the thing is, is really all I focus 671 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:07,480 at this age. 672 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:08,480 That's funny. 673 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,600 This summer, we've been teaching a lot of juniors up here, you know, through the PGA 674 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,960 junior league, we kind of created a fall kids camp. 675 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,800 The players I get up here a lot, girls and boys is a lot of hockey players, right? 676 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:21,800 That's their sport. 677 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:22,800 Yeah. 678 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,640 So my biggest thing with the kind of seven to 10 year olds is getting to keep their hands 679 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:28,640 together. 680 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:29,640 Yeah. 681 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,600 So you're trying to get the right hand to interlock, but just not separated. 682 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,640 And you're trying to explain to an eight year old, Hey, the reason you don't want to have 683 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,320 your right hand too far below your left hand is you're going to start having extra right 684 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,320 hand at the bottom. 685 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,320 You're swinging. 686 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:42,800 I've already lost them, right? 687 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:43,800 Yeah. 688 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,960 Just, just keep your hands together at the bottom, bottom line. 689 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:52,320 So I think it's just kind of funny, you know, age wise, there's so much as just let them 690 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,320 go. 691 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,040 Let them go have fun, hit the ball, see what happens. 692 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,040 Go find it. 693 00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,040 Exactly. 694 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:00,040 Yeah. 695 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,880 So then I'll switch the question to you Phil, because I see you working with Connor a little 696 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,880 bit. 697 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,160 I see you work with Laura, but maybe more with Kate. 698 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,920 Maybe I just don't see you work with Connor. 699 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:08,920 Yeah. 700 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,840 Is there certain things that you kind of try to impress on her? 701 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:12,840 At this stage? 702 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,080 I see you working with her putting in the... 703 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,080 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 704 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:17,080 No, I know it's great. 705 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:22,880 I'm just delighted that, you know, they're playing. 706 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:28,360 And it's like T-Mac, you know, I know how busy you are with a five and a two year old, 707 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:35,080 but it's like, it's, you know, my kids when they started as well were, you know, they 708 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,080 liked it. 709 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:41,120 But then, you know, it was other sports, soccer, baseball, pop warner, I mean, all the sports, 710 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,080 but they've come back to golf, which is really great. 711 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:49,520 You know, I mean, that I just think you just get so much out of golf, not just people and, 712 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,760 you know, but even business and connections and relationships. 713 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:54,760 It's amazing. 714 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,520 So just delighted that they're into that. 715 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:02,160 But now, yeah, I used to say to them, like, you know, mid teens or whatever, like, they 716 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,560 learn how to hit it and then you learn how to play. 717 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,920 So I think we're at the point of like playing now, so you know, even with pain, it's learning 718 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:15,960 how to score, it's learning how to hit, you know, the right shot maybe, you know, or to 719 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:21,720 assess, you know, what can go wrong or, or even just where you should hit it maybe. 720 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:26,480 You know, why don't you like just think a little bit more about it, then, you know, 721 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,880 because it'll it'll help you shave a few shots off your score and then then just kind of 722 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,000 things like alignment and you know, reading a green or something at all. 723 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,800 I need somebody to show me how to read a green these days. 724 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:44,320 Sounds like it's right up your alley, Sean. 725 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,960 You got Connor who's six foot two and bombs it. 726 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:48,960 Absolutely. 727 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,120 And we're look, I mean, the kids are, you know, they're coordinated, right. 728 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:58,920 So whether it was the hockey or baseball or stuff, I think that really lends itself to 729 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,240 to do the hand eye coordination and stuff. 730 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,120 So, yeah, Connor's a big kid and he's got a good swing, I think, pretty much. 731 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,000 And he can be like so many kids these days now. 732 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,320 They're just hitting it. 733 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,800 T-Mac so far, right? 734 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:13,800 Trust me. 735 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,400 But then it kind of breaks down a little bit then, you know, from around the short game 736 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:19,400 and stuff like that. 737 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,560 And it's it's I think for me as well, I don't know if the same for you guys going off, but 738 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:30,840 for me, it was easier to figure out the short game growing up and start, you know, starting 739 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,400 with the game than it was the long game. 740 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,360 You know, like, you know, I mean, that's where you made your right. 741 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,840 I think that's where I became a better player with the short game. 742 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,200 And it's kind of flipped for me now. 743 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,080 I'm probably a better ball striker. 744 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,080 Yeah. 745 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,680 I mean, now my game is not there. 746 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:49,680 Yeah. 747 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,320 You know, or not where it certainly not where it used to be. 748 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,960 You know, T-Mac, talk a little bit about that, about kind of what's your strengths? 749 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,440 You like short game, you like long game. 750 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,480 Where do you feel like you're kind of got good or whatever? 751 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,400 Well, I think as a kid growing up, you know, my grandpa took me to the driving range quite 752 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,400 a bit. 753 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,520 There wasn't a lot of practice facilities as far as short game went. 754 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,760 It was just kind of a field and you hit balls out into it and that was it. 755 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,240 So I became a pretty good ball striker, I would say. 756 00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:17,280 I hit the ball pretty well. 757 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,880 I'd get it around the course pretty well. 758 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:24,280 But my weakness is going to be my short game and I work very hard on it. 759 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,160 But you know, I think it's just one of those things if I had the time as a younger, younger 760 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,560 child to work on those things around the green, I'd be a lot better. 761 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,200 But you know, I think it's just like Phil said, you know, you kind of what you're able 762 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,680 to work with is what your strength becomes. 763 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:39,680 Right? 764 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:40,680 Yeah. 765 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:41,680 So I grew up. 766 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:42,680 Yeah, I grew up. 767 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:43,680 My dad took me. 768 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,040 My dad, we've talked about it before. 769 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:52,840 My dad was five foot eight, maybe about 190 pounds left handed, kind of had some like either 770 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,320 either super bad arthritis or he was born in 1936. 771 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,960 So 1941 in America, like diagnosed with polio, literally. 772 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:07,920 So he really never had strength in his hands and his body to kind of make motions that 773 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,760 we can all make me and my brother, my brother, six, five. 774 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,920 So I always think of him as like if he had to drive 180 yards, he was super happy. 775 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:16,920 Yeah, yeah. 776 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:17,920 Big deal. 777 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:18,920 Yeah. 778 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,040 You know, we played a lot of par three courses or nine hole facilities that were kind of 779 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,800 maybe par 32 or something. 780 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:25,800 Yeah. 781 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:31,920 Now I look back, I know why we did because he didn't want to look. 782 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,400 But that really landed to your short game though, didn't it? 783 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,160 Yeah, no, but that play in the par three, which isn't there anymore, Middleton Golf 784 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,800 Force that Scott knows as well, but it was an 18 hole par three. 785 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:47,160 And again, I worked at a golf course from the time I was 13 to 21, a course called Thompson 786 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:48,840 Country Club in North Reading. 787 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,840 But when I would play with my dad, especially those first kind of like, we'll call it 11, 788 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:58,200 12, 13 years old tag along with my brother, you're hitting three wood from 150 yards. 789 00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:59,200 Yeah. 790 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,200 And you can hit the green with a three wood a lot. 791 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,360 So you have to become a good short game person. 792 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:10,920 And the guys that like when I went to clinics, Saturday morning clinics as a 13 year old, 793 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,680 Chris Costa was a, is an excellent teacher up here in the kind of Northeast area. 794 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:16,680 Right. 795 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,920 And then Jane Frost is another lady, excellent LPGA. 796 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,880 She's actually, I think she's the hall of fame for LPGA. 797 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:28,160 They were like Phil said, they happen to be pros at Middleton Golf Force and they happen 798 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,400 to teach Saturday morning clinics. 799 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:31,400 And I still do. 800 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,600 And I still teach what they taught me. 801 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:34,600 Literally 40. 802 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:35,600 Wow. 803 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:36,600 Holy cow. 804 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:37,600 That's incredible, Sean. 805 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:38,600 Yeah. 806 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,600 It's stuff that you kind of don't even realize. 807 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:45,040 I was telling one of the bag room kids yesterday, gave a short game lesson. 808 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,560 We got a great little chipping practice area back here at Oakley. 809 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,000 And the kids like, why are you so, the bag room guys like, why are you so, you're amped 810 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,000 up? 811 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,840 And I said, cause I love teaching chipping. 812 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,080 There's so many ways to do it. 813 00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:59,080 Oh yeah. 814 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,080 Right. 815 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,080 You chip in Ireland differently. 816 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,600 You chip in Massachusetts differently than you chip in Florida. 817 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:04,600 Oh, incredible. 818 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:05,600 Yeah. 819 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:06,600 Fascination. 820 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:07,600 Yeah. 821 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:08,600 All the different things. 822 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,680 And definitely a part of the game that's overlooked completely, right? 823 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,080 Oh, it's so important. 824 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,080 And it is already. 825 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,600 People, I don't think spend half enough time on it. 826 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,400 I mean, you know, it brings people to the medium. 827 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:24,240 Like the reason Tom was Tom Kite was cause he was so good with his wedges. 828 00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:29,760 You know, like Lauren Roberts, who would have ever known Lauren Roberts, but he's an unbelievable 829 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:30,760 putter. 830 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:31,760 Yeah. 831 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,120 Not conventional, but like, you know, incredible putter. 832 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,120 Yeah. 833 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,240 You know, never going to hit as good as Tiger, as good as Ernie Els, as good as Davis Lung. 834 00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:41,240 Yeah. 835 00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:42,720 But he figured out Corey Paven. 836 00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:47,600 Like this players that we can keep talking about that had unbelievable short game, one 837 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:48,600 event. 838 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:49,600 Yeah. 839 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,680 And then unfortunately they've kind of gotten outpaced the last 10 to 15 years with Bryson 840 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,720 DeChambeau and Dustin Johnson. 841 00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:57,720 Yeah. 842 00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:58,720 Yeah. 843 00:43:58,720 --> 00:43:59,720 It's changed. 844 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:00,720 It's definitely changed. 845 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:01,720 Distance has definitely changed. 846 00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:06,680 But Sean, just on that, you're saying like, do you think the golf swing, you know, we 847 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:11,760 were kind of taught, you know, to kind of hit down on the ball, especially links golf. 848 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,520 Well, because you have to, right. 849 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:20,240 And now it's more certainly with the driver, it's like you're trying to like, you're supposed 850 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:22,200 to swing up or try and swing up. 851 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:27,240 I mean, which is something personally, I really, cause I think I kind of hit that still hit 852 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:29,280 down even with the driver. 853 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:30,280 Yeah. 854 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:35,400 And I think you and Brandon, Brandon definitely, Instagram video with tiger just literally 855 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,720 two days ago. 856 00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:40,520 And he's talking about, you know, how to hit driver better and TMAC. 857 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:46,120 Do you remember in my old store, Taylor made had like a little display of T height with 858 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,120 some of the players. 859 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:48,120 Yes. 860 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,120 I remember that. 861 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,120 Yes. 862 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:51,120 Yes. 863 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:56,280 So basically Rory, Dustin Johnson, these are all Taylor made guys, Rory, Dustin Johnson, 864 00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:01,880 all of our color, they all, we all use the three and a quarter inch length T Ricky Fowler 865 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:07,600 are using the two and one eighth inch T for driver because tiger's point was I can T it 866 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:08,600 down lower. 867 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:09,600 I can hit my little butter. 868 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:10,600 Yeah. 869 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:11,600 His little power cut. 870 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:12,600 Yeah. 871 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:13,600 He knew what he was going to do every single time. 872 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,960 And as soon as you T it up higher now brings into more play some of some draw components 873 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:19,960 and he didn't like that. 874 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:20,960 Yeah. 875 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,840 Like when the U S or the British open with two iron with the trajectory part of it. 876 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:25,840 That's very interesting. 877 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:26,840 Well, you know what? 878 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,920 He's showing that T Mac last week. 879 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,880 There was a kid here, James Amai. 880 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,160 And James was in Northwestern. 881 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,680 He's a good friend of Connor's, my son. 882 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:43,440 And James is going to Q school this weekend in, I think he's out in Wisconsin or somewhere 883 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,440 like that. 884 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,320 And what he played here last week at Oakley and I played with him and he was teeing the 885 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:50,640 ball really low. 886 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:56,440 And I said like, and he said, I know where it's going when I said it's not going to hit 887 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,120 spray it left or right when I'm teeing it low. 888 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,040 And I was like, what are you talking about? 889 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,480 It eliminates a lot of negative bad things. 890 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:05,480 Wow. 891 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:06,480 I didn't. 892 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:07,480 Yeah. 893 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:08,480 Glad we tell you something. 894 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,540 Well, it's a lot more controlled shot pattern, right? 895 00:46:11,540 --> 00:46:15,240 You know, it's much more natural for us to kind of swing onto the inside that it is to 896 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:18,760 the left and then try to manipulate the face to bring it back around. 897 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:19,760 Right. 898 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,640 So we're trying to tee it down a little bit lower, cut it out there. 899 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:27,800 And for me, when I'm on a tight hole or I've got water, you know, on one side or the other, 900 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:28,800 that's what I'm doing. 901 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,080 I'm teeing it down a little bit and I'm trying to, I'm trying to hit it more in the heel 902 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,440 than I am out towards the toe for sure. 903 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:35,440 Wow. 904 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,400 So what was, what was Daly's whole mantra when he came out on the golf, like when he 905 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,760 came out on tour, his whole thing was tee it high, let it fly. 906 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:44,760 Yeah. 907 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:50,400 And he was the first one realistically who came out with that physique and that attitude. 908 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,800 I mean Palmer and kind of some of these guys had sort of that bruising attitude, but he 909 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,040 was the guy who came up to the range, had a cigarette in his mouth. 910 00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,040 Yeah. 911 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:00,040 I saw him at Doral. 912 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:06,120 I saw him in Miami at Doral and he, and he had to go from one corner of the range to 913 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,120 the other opposite corner. 914 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:09,120 Wow. 915 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:14,880 He took a cigarette, went back to the putting green, hit three pots and went to the first 916 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:15,880 tee. 917 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:16,880 Right. 918 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:17,880 But he was the guy. 919 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,200 He was the tee it high, let it fly guy. 920 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,960 But there again, you're talking about the technology. 921 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,040 The technology now has gotten so much more advanced that you can play a cut and it'll 922 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,360 go just as long as John Daly's big draw back then. 923 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:32,360 Wow. 924 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:33,360 Yeah, true. 925 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,360 Yeah. 926 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,200 And the, and the golf ball's really juiced too. 927 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,200 Yeah. 928 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:38,200 Everything is. 929 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:39,200 Hey, this has been great. 930 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:44,080 We got, like I said, with each of each one of these guys, I know we could do a follow 931 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,080 up episode, right? 932 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,080 I love it. 933 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,640 It's good stuff for our listeners. 934 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,120 So I hope you enjoyed it. 935 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,120 Really enjoyed it. 936 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,840 Nice to chat with your team, Sean. 937 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:53,840 Yeah. 938 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:54,840 Yeah. 939 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:55,840 Always good to chat. 940 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:56,840 That's it. 941 00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,200 Thanks for inviting me. 942 00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:59,200 Yeah. 943 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,200 Thanks for, thanks for coming on. 944 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,880 We really appreciate you coming onto the dynamic podcast show. 945 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:03,960 We really appreciate it. 946 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,560 This has been very interesting. 947 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:06,560 So I'm super excited. 948 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:07,560 Thank you, Phil. 949 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:08,560 Thanks, T-Mac. 950 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:09,560 Thanks guys. 951 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:10,560 All right, T-Mac. 952 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:11,560 Have a good one. 953 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:12,560 We'll see you soon.