1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:18,880 Sit back and get ready to take off with Dynamic Golf. 2 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:23,540 Fellow podcast listeners, I'm your co-host Tim McElvanagh and with me is my fellow partner 3 00:00:23,540 --> 00:00:24,540 Sean Klotz. 4 00:00:24,540 --> 00:00:26,480 Sean, who do we have today? 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:31,880 Tim Mc, we've got a very special gentleman, he's the club historian for the golf course, 6 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,360 his name is Dan Mee. 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,320 Dan, how long have you been a member at Oakley? 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,320 31 years. 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,320 31 years, great. 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,320 That's unbelievable. 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:45,880 And the club historian, is that like a position that changes throughout? 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,000 Do different people have it or is that technically the name of the title too, I guess would be 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,000 the way to say it? 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,640 Or have you just taken on yourself to start recording stuff? 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,360 Certainly, a lot of self-appointed historians. 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,080 Many clubs have a club historian. 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:07,640 It's not uncommon at all and in fact the Ross clubs in particular have a tendency to have 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,760 a designated historian. 19 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:15,200 The Donald Ross Society does a very good job of knitting us all together and we have a 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:23,280 special webpage on their webpage for the historians so we can communicate with each other. 21 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:31,640 Oakley has had a great deal of interest in its history over the years. 22 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:38,400 There was a fellow named Witcher back in the 30s who researched the original clubhouse 23 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:45,480 and determined that it was in fact designed by Charles Bulfinch and it was rare for Bulfinch 24 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,360 to do a suburban commission. 25 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,360 The plans for that clubhouse were actually in the Library of Congress along with the 26 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,360 Marcacello and Mount Vernon. 27 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,440 It was a very important building. 28 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:07,200 After him there was a fellow named Reynolds that wrote the history in 1948 for the 50th 29 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,120 anniversary and there were other people that stepped in and did some work. 30 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:20,320 When I joined the club there was a fellow named Dr. Dan Schaig and he was the club historian 31 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:29,720 then and he did most of the research that resulted in the book we delivered in 1998 32 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:36,280 for the anniversary of the club moving here to Strawberry Hill. 33 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:44,520 I'm medicine to say that it's the centennial of our founding because what we established 34 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,320 in the most recent history book is that we were in fact founded in 1895. 35 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,880 It's the Cambridge Golf Club. 36 00:02:53,880 --> 00:03:00,080 Then moved across the street, basically moved across Montauk street to this property and 37 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:06,400 initially called ourselves the Cambridge Golf and Country Club and then changed that to 38 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:13,120 Oakley I think as part of the whole celebration of the new course and the new clubhouse. 39 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:22,240 The Oakley was actually in a state of one of the previous landowners essentially, like 40 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,120 the Harrison Gray Otis. 41 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,080 That's the house that was designed by Bulfinch who was a buddy of Otis. 42 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:35,160 Otis was a big real estate developer in downtown Boston, basically built most of Beacon Hill 43 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,440 and he has a grand house. 44 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,680 It's still there on Cambridge Street. 45 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,800 It's a museum now. 46 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:50,520 So Otis was an owner and he sold his house to the Pratt family in 1825 or 30 and the 47 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,000 club bought the property from the Pratt family. 48 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,580 There's a direct line there. 49 00:03:57,580 --> 00:04:03,000 It's interesting for anybody who plays Oakley today, you know we're a 6,000 yard course 50 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,440 and by today's standards pretty modest. 51 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:15,520 But Oakley is the first 18 hole course ever built in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. 52 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:24,840 It's the second 18 hole course in New England after Newport and it was so important because 53 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:29,080 our first course was a 9 hole course down on Auburn Street. 54 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:34,960 As I said we moved across and we laid out 18 and the fellow that designed that first 55 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:40,760 course was Willie Campbell who was a very impressive fellow. 56 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,920 Surprised no more is written about Willie. 57 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:50,000 He's really an interesting character but he expanded the country club from 6 to 9. 58 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:57,320 He laid out 9s at Essex in Myopia, in Wallaston, in Franklin Park which is the second public 59 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:58,800 course in the country. 60 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,800 Willie was prolific in Scotland before he came out. 61 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:09,080 He expanded the country from 6 to 9 and then he was the pro there for a bit and then he 62 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,480 was the pro up at Myopia for a bit. 63 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:19,760 Tim, for our listeners, every golf course Dan just mentioned is top 100 in America 64 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,560 and probably top 10 in the state. 65 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:28,360 I would say Myopia, Essex, and the country club in Oakley and the list goes on. 66 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,360 Winchester and we'll get to some of the more than one. 67 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,360 Definitely a who's who's list right there going on for sure. 68 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:39,000 We're not talking about the local munis in Florida or anywhere. 69 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,440 He did municipal golf courses as a record too which we can get to some of the public 70 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:43,440 ones. 71 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,920 Yeah, there could be a whole story of Willie Campbell and his wife. 72 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:53,640 His wife was the first golf professional in the United States, a female golf professional. 73 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,840 So he got sick right? 74 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:56,840 Yeah, basically. 75 00:05:56,840 --> 00:05:59,440 Good Sean, you're actually right. 76 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:05,920 That's what many people that are interested in Ross always kind of reach out to us and 77 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,480 say well how did this happen? 78 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:15,800 I mean because he was certainly and if you go back and look what he did in Scotland, 79 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,120 he was a pretty young guy. 80 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,120 He was a great golfer. 81 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,800 His dad was a stonemason and Ross didn't want to do that. 82 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:31,160 He started as a joiner which I guess is a type of carpenter and didn't like that. 83 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:38,920 But he loved golf and he got close with the people at Dornick and they wanted to hire 84 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,960 him but he didn't have any training so he went off to St. Andrews and trained under 85 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:50,720 old Tom and then he went to Carnistia and trained under another great guy and then he 86 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:57,920 learned club making from one of the finest club makers of the time down at Carnistia. 87 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,400 Then he came back to Dornick and he was their first professional. 88 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,600 They didn't have a professional before him. 89 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:09,480 He was only 27 when he came here so everything Dan just mentioned happened before he was 90 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:10,480 27 years old. 91 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:11,480 It's amazing right? 92 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,920 It's amazing and comes to a new country at the age of 27. 93 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:15,920 You know that's pretty stock stuff. 94 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,560 He got recruited by one of the boy numbers. 95 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,200 It didn't happen by accident. 96 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:27,840 But before we talk about that, I think it's important to understand that Ross had a great 97 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:28,840 life. 98 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:34,640 I mean he had this just awesome job, his dream job. 99 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,960 In those days the pro wore a lot of hats so he was given lessons but he was taking care 100 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:46,000 of the grounds and he had learned about grounds keeping from old Tom. 101 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:51,720 But it was a big job in that town and he was the guy and he just got engaged. 102 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:58,200 So there's a lot of things holding him there including his parents who he was very close 103 00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,200 to. 104 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:12,560 But anyway in the summer of 1898 one of our board members Robert Wheeler Wilson, two L's 105 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:13,560 on Wilson. 106 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,560 He was a Harvard professor. 107 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:16,560 He was. 108 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,360 He worked in two disciplines, astronomy and physics. 109 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,360 Unbelievable. 110 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:28,120 And we actually have Wilson's picture on the wall of this board room here. 111 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:36,240 So Wilson was there with his wife and they took lessons from Ross and he was so impressed. 112 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,320 First of all he asked him what do you make and Ross told him and he goes, you can make 113 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,720 three times that in America. 114 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,160 And so Ross kind of was shocked. 115 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,920 It was the first time he heard there was that kind of money involved. 116 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,440 And then Wilson went off. 117 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,560 But Wilson never forgot that conversation or Ross. 118 00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:03,320 And when he got back to Boston he told the board about it and the growing club here at 119 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,440 Oakley needed people to teach. 120 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:15,320 And so we had another member, Alfred Ripley, who was head of the golf committee. 121 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,880 He wrote Ross and made an offer of employment. 122 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,480 And Ross came. 123 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:29,960 And he came in March of 1899 and if you read his story, Golf Never Failed Me, he goes into 124 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,880 it in some detail. 125 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,240 The poor guy spent everything he had to get here and he had precious few pennies in his 126 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,280 pocket and he walked from South State because he went to New York instead of Boston. 127 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,440 I don't know if he got a deal or got on the wrong boat. 128 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:45,440 In New York. 129 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,080 Had to take a train to Boston. 130 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:54,040 And then he gets to South Station and he seems almost broke and calls up Wilson. 131 00:09:54,040 --> 00:10:06,360 And it might strike you funny that Wilson had a phone in 1899, but there were a lot 132 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:11,280 of connections to Bell Telephone at Oakley, including our president at the time, Charles 133 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:19,240 Eustace Hubbard, who was a founder and a longtime board member of Bell Telephone, whose nephew 134 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,080 was Alexander Graham Bell. 135 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:30,360 So I've read so many things about this period and people just say there's no way he had 136 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:31,360 a phone. 137 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,360 And I'm like, whatever. 138 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:40,020 But there's a lot of reasons why Wilson and probably everybody else had a phone. 139 00:10:40,020 --> 00:10:46,480 So he got to Wilson's house and he stayed with Wilson because he had no place to stay. 140 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,200 Now that first struck me kind of funny. 141 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:58,560 This Wilson was a really high society guy and poor Ross, I mean on the manifest of the 142 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:04,640 majestic ship he took out, I think he listed his occupation as servant. 143 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,080 And golf is downstairs in the Ross Library. 144 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:09,080 I read that. 145 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,080 It's perfect. 146 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,160 But it's so humble, right? 147 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:13,160 Yeah, he didn't. 148 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:18,160 And he didn't, I mean, but here is this real society guy and I'm saying he stayed with 149 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:19,160 him. 150 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:25,280 Then you realize in those days most middle and upper class people had servants and they 151 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,040 had a servant's quarters. 152 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,800 So it was nothing for him to have lost, stay there for a couple of days until he got squared 153 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:37,120 away and then he ended up getting a boarding house that's virtually all Oakley staff that 154 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:43,200 in the census of 1900 all listed their occupation as a servant. 155 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:52,320 So Ross comes out and again, Oakley is, there's a Campbell course there, 18 holes. 156 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,200 I've read that there was only 12 holes there. 157 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:01,800 I mean, a lot of golf writers read something but don't confirm it. 158 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,600 And so it gets repeated and repeated. 159 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,440 But we have confirmed that there were 18 holes there all designed by Willie Campbell. 160 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,560 It's a short course, 5200 yards. 161 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:13,560 But it was 18. 162 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,560 And you've got to remember in 1898. 163 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:17,520 Well, it doesn't go as far. 164 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,320 Well, there was part of that. 165 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:20,320 Yeah, club's still cool. 166 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:21,320 Yeah, absolutely. 167 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,080 No heightening drivers and graphite shafts. 168 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,720 1898 was the last US Open played on nine holes. 169 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:34,600 And it was the first US Open that had I think 72 players. 170 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:39,360 And so it was played up at Myopia and it was not fun. 171 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:44,760 I mean, guys coming off the rhythm and all of a sudden they're going to wait. 172 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,960 They just got the one course. 173 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,560 And it just emphasized why the nine hole courses were inadequate. 174 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:58,120 And Oakley recognized that and we were the first to do it. 175 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,800 So a year or two later that the country took it. 176 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:09,000 But it's interesting if you look at 1900 and you look at the courses in Massachusetts, 177 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,400 85% of them are nine. 178 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,560 There's a smattering of sixes, which is fascinating. 179 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,480 You go around three times. 180 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:18,480 That's interesting. 181 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,240 And then there are a handful of 18s by 1900. 182 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,520 So he came over as basically like you said, servant kind of like golf instructor was his 183 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,000 title essentially, right? 184 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,120 And clever Perry did. 185 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:35,640 But then didn't the board members or they essentially he was tending to the green side 186 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,520 of it like he started because Campbell got sick. 187 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,000 So he started kind of Campbell was never the groundskeeper. 188 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:47,160 Okay, he just designed it and he was the groundskeeper at Franklin Park with his wife. 189 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:54,480 And so the course was designed, the trees were cut, it was here, but it needed a lot 190 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,480 of work. 191 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:56,960 I mean, they take a long time to grow. 192 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,760 The grass was still growing. 193 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:05,360 Although they were playing on it pretty regularly by the fall of 1898. 194 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:13,360 So anyway, Ross was given the job to try to repair this thing. 195 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,280 And as I mentioned, it was a short course. 196 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,440 It was a 5200. 197 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,920 And the club always envisioned a much bigger course. 198 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:28,220 And we own most of that land and we leased some of it. 199 00:14:28,220 --> 00:14:34,320 And then we were able to buy another 17 acres in 1899. 200 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,320 Which is the Strawberry Hill part of it? 201 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,520 Well, we're on Strawberry Hill now. 202 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,840 And this was part of the Payson estate next door. 203 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,760 And we're on the other side of the wall. 204 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,400 Hey, Mac, I've tried to show you guys pictures. 205 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:49,400 We'll do more on YouTube. 206 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,280 But we're at the highest point in Watertown. 207 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,800 So when you're in 1900 Boston, there's no skyscrapers. 208 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,720 You're just basically seeing the ocean. 209 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,040 The view is out to the Atlantic. 210 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,380 Yeah, that's what I was reading is that you just had a beautiful uphill view up there 211 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:05,680 looking down at everything. 212 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,840 So it's got to be a gorgeous view. 213 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,840 I'm sure before some of the high rises came in, but I'm sure it was a gorgeous view prior 214 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,600 to that. 215 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,840 You know, Tim, that's exactly right. 216 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:25,800 And I've read that some of the old residents would just sit on the veranda and watch the 217 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,200 tall ships come into the hub. 218 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,440 Because there's just nothing blocking your view. 219 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,240 We can no longer see the Atlantic. 220 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,320 It's not too hard to understand that they could. 221 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,200 Oh my gosh, that's amazing. 222 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,320 Tall ships in a different podcast. 223 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,320 That's amazing. 224 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:44,320 That's part of the Boston history. 225 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:49,200 We won't go into tea party stuff, but it's kind of in the same realm. 226 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,200 That's amazing. 227 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,440 That's a rich history right there in itself. 228 00:15:53,440 --> 00:16:00,200 So there is the extra land and it was clear you just didn't. 229 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,600 You had to rework the whole of course, because Campbell's course had a lot of very short 230 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:04,600 holes. 231 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:15,520 And for example, our current fifth hole, there were two holes in that one corridor. 232 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,680 So it did the job. 233 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,120 You had 18 holes, but it wasn't optimal and they always knew they were going to expand 234 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,120 it. 235 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,120 And there were a lot of candidates. 236 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,760 There were the Stearns Estate south of us in the Payson Estate west of that initial 237 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,440 property. 238 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,920 You know, their ownership was either already dead or really old. 239 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,880 So the membership thought we're going to get one of those properties. 240 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:47,400 So they got the first chunk of the Payson Estate and there's no record of it. 241 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:53,440 Our guess is they would have contacted Campbell because he was the premier designer. 242 00:16:53,440 --> 00:17:00,200 But Willie was very sick and as you guys mentioned earlier, and wasn't up to it. 243 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:06,160 He never played another match in 1899. 244 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:11,440 And then he was in 1900. 245 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,600 So it kind of turned to rocks. 246 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:15,720 They did. 247 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:22,880 And so Dr. Healy, who was the lead author on our book, he and I would wrestle with this 248 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,040 topic. 249 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,040 Why rocks? 250 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,600 Because there were a lot of really good designers in Boston. 251 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:37,400 And we've come to the conclusion that Ross just must have impressed people at such a 252 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,400 level with his knowledge, with his work ethic. 253 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,500 And he was in the perfect position, right? 254 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:44,880 So he's out there working. 255 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,960 The course is starting to look nice. 256 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,120 But then he's given these people lessons. 257 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,560 And he's given the board members lessons. 258 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,440 I mean, he's just wired in. 259 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,480 Oh, he got Wilson out, right? 260 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,480 The Wilson connection. 261 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,560 And Wilson's his man. 262 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,600 This fellow, Dana, he's on the wall. 263 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,840 He was his man. 264 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:15,720 In that era when you really had a master servant relationship with Scott, he transcended that. 265 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:22,040 The members of Oakley especially really looked at him. 266 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,960 It may sound crazy, but I believe they looked at him as a peer. 267 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:31,920 And they really developed long friendships that lasted his life. 268 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,080 There's a letter in our Ross library that speaks to that. 269 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,680 He really enjoyed his time here. 270 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,040 Anyway, so yeah, they turned to the new kid. 271 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:50,280 And I jokingly said to Dr. Healy, well, if you look at photographs of Campbell and Ross 272 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,320 in that era, they both had mustaches. 273 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,640 They didn't look dissimilar. 274 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,280 You know they sounded the same, right? 275 00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:59,280 They're both just scotchling. 276 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,280 He's the guy. 277 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,440 Well, we'll let him do it. 278 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:04,440 And that was it. 279 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,040 That's how he got the start. 280 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,480 And he laid out a new 18. 281 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,880 He actually did two different designs. 282 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:20,720 And they went to board pick one of them and then they built it. 283 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,880 And so that was his first commission. 284 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,040 He was paid a couple of thousand dollars. 285 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,640 He sent most of that home to his mother. 286 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:36,880 And she added a floor to the family cottage on St. Gilbert Street and renamed it the Oakley 287 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:37,880 cottage. 288 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,840 That's a cool part of it. 289 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:40,840 That's beautiful. 290 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,200 Well, we started researching this. 291 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,520 And I'm saying, you know, so many people belong to a country government. 292 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,520 It's just functional. 293 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:49,520 All right. 294 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,320 I just want the course to play well. 295 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,880 But there's this whole other side to this place that's fascinating. 296 00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:01,280 And it's not, it doesn't interest everybody, but it interests enough of us that it's important 297 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,000 to preserve it. 298 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,300 You know, many people, there are probably more than a handful of members that still 299 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,200 just think we're another Ross course. 300 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,760 You know, it's just, it's really not that important. 301 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,360 The fact that our, our super pat lane keeps it playing so well, that's, that's the really 302 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:19,480 important thing for them. 303 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:25,880 But this, for a little golf course, it really punches above its weight when you talk about 304 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:26,880 golf history. 305 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:27,880 Right. 306 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:28,880 Yeah. 307 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,200 Because when Ross was here, he was such an innovate. 308 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,680 We, he did like a water, like he brought water. 309 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,760 Greens were irrigated in 1900. 310 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,760 Nobody's green irrigated. 311 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,200 And today we're still finding some of the old metal pipes out there. 312 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:52,960 The Corotas, I gotta probably have one cut out and put it out on a pretty funny shelf. 313 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:58,200 But he, he also had gave indoor lessons back then. 314 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,200 Did read that. 315 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,800 No track man, T Mac, no track man, but he's doing indoor lessons in 1900. 316 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:05,800 He was the track man. 317 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:14,000 Yeah, so he's here from 99 to 1910 as the head pro Tim. 318 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:20,360 And he's designing golf courses, you know, did he design courses during that time? 319 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:21,360 He played a lot. 320 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:22,360 He was a really good player. 321 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:23,360 I didn't realize he was. 322 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:24,360 Very few. 323 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:25,360 There's only a handful. 324 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:26,360 After the 1910. 325 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:32,480 But he, he, and this is where I think a lot of people get confused. 326 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,080 So he came here in 99 and he stayed. 327 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,840 That was the only winter he spent in New England. 328 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:46,680 And then that's probably when he put the, the nets in the squash courts and gave lessons. 329 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:55,720 So, so funny during 1900, he finished laying out this course and was given lessons. 330 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:05,440 And we had a member that was James Tufts attorney and Tufts, obviously he had already started 331 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:06,440 Pinehurst. 332 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,480 There wasn't a lot of golf. 333 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,360 I think he had one nine hole course there. 334 00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:11,360 Fine. 335 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:12,360 There's one. 336 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,840 And his attorney said, no, you, you've got to talk to this guy. 337 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,200 So he set up a dinner over Medford and they hit it off. 338 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:31,320 And so from the winter of 1900 in December, Ross went down to North Carolina and that 339 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,200 started the relationship. 340 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,720 And so he was the winter pro in North Carolina and he was the summer pro at Oakley and hit 341 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,200 some of the matches that he played from there on in. 342 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,560 It actually indicate those two positions. 343 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,440 What's frustrating for us is that so many people will read that history and just say, 344 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:55,320 oh, he was at Oakley for a year and then went to Pinehurst when he was a full-time employee 345 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,840 for 11 years. 346 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,560 And Tim, they took July and August off, which I thought was interesting too, right? 347 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,280 Cause good life. 348 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,200 Life was different back then for sure. 349 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,200 Yeah. 350 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,480 Cause the, cause they, they basically went to their summer homes. 351 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,480 We'll call it. 352 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,480 That's what happened. 353 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:14,800 Or, you know, there's no air conditioning. 354 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:20,280 So they're going to go by the beaches or by the name tuck it, whatever it is. 355 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,280 Yeah. 356 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,800 Um, so just an interesting side note that as the summer pro, he's not working. 357 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,640 He works May through June and then kind of comes back September through November type 358 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:32,640 of thing or something. 359 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,520 It was always a big fourth of July. 360 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:35,520 Okay. 361 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:36,520 Um, uh, event. 362 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:37,520 Okay. 363 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,400 So kind of shut down right after the fourth of July and then would kick back in mid September. 364 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,400 Yeah. 365 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,400 Yeah. 366 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,400 Cool. 367 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:50,160 And this, uh, this led to a lot of his commissions because members would scatter and then say, 368 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,840 you know, you can, you know, come up here to Mount Washington and design this, uh, this 369 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,840 course on the, on the hill. 370 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:57,840 Unbelievable. 371 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:58,840 Wow. 372 00:23:58,840 --> 00:23:59,840 Great place. 373 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,240 So he did Pinehurst number one, number two and number three from the information we got. 374 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:10,160 Um, and I mean, Tim, some of the, I would really encourage our listeners to just, cause 375 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:16,600 we can't do it justice here, but to go research a little bit of what, what Ross did over the 376 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,000 next cause he died in 48. 377 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,000 Does that sound right? 378 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,000 Yeah. 379 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,000 Something like that. 380 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:28,040 So from like kind of the 1910 to 1948 and, uh, what he did in America, I'll say in Canada 381 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,760 for the record or the no look, of course he made it in Cuba. 382 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:32,760 He did Cuba too. 383 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:33,760 Yeah. 384 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:34,760 Oh wow. 385 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:40,080 I mean, um, Florida where you're at TMAC, um, Bel Air country club and, and all that 386 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,080 and all those. 387 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,080 Yeah. 388 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,080 I mean, there's yeah. 389 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,080 Yeah. 390 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,080 Pommicea. 391 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,640 That's a staple in the Tampa area. 392 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:51,800 That's the, that would be almost like an Oakley kind of feel in Tampa, meaning kind of like 393 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,480 a little bit of working class, a little bit of old school money, you know, definitely 394 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:56,480 the course to play. 395 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,520 Cause it's in the center of town. 396 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:03,280 We'll call it small, you know, Pommicea is kind of a short shorter golf course. 397 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,480 A decade long waiting list to get in there. 398 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:06,480 Yeah. 399 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,480 There you go. 400 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:08,480 Right. 401 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,480 Always in good shape type of stuff. 402 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,760 It's like going to, you know, it's a beautiful course for sure. 403 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:12,760 Yeah. 404 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,360 And you were telling me Dan about you played Seminole, which is one of his designs, right? 405 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,720 Such a trace to get on that track. 406 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:27,240 Many consider it, uh, as good as a Pinus number two in terms of the whole, yeah, the Ross 407 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,240 courses. 408 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,200 Did you ever play Dunedin Tim? 409 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:35,200 No, I've never had the chance of playing Dunedin Dunedin country club, amazing golf course 410 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,440 and just, you know, basically north of Clearwater, um, Delray beach. 411 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,480 It sounds like Delray beach golf course. 412 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,840 I played that as like a municipal golf course that I didn't realize was built by Jones, 413 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,040 but it's such a fun layout. 414 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,240 I probably played it 20 years ago. 415 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:57,000 Um, you know, Lake Wales country club is an old school golf course in Florida, uh, Pelican, 416 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,380 which they just redesigned obviously, but Bellevue built more and Sarah Bay is the one 417 00:26:01,380 --> 00:26:03,240 I've always talked about with people down here. 418 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,480 So that's just the Florida golf courses. 419 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,360 And I didn't list the other 30 that you did in Florida, by the way, I just listed the 420 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:10,440 ones that I know of that I've played. 421 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:11,440 Yeah. 422 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,440 Um, yeah, he was prolific. 423 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,640 I mean, Connecticut, Shenna Casa, you ever play that one? 424 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:16,640 I did not. 425 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,640 That's a great track. 426 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:18,640 It's right on the water. 427 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,280 It's in, uh, Groton great golf course, Rhode Island. 428 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,680 I mean, oh, it's, it's a long list. 429 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,680 Yeah. 430 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:26,680 He lived in Rhode Island. 431 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:27,680 Um, okay. 432 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:28,680 Later. 433 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:29,680 Okay. 434 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,480 Um, he moved around a bit. 435 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,480 Now, again, this was summers. 436 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,480 Yeah. 437 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:41,240 After he left Oakley, uh, his, in, in the end of 1910, and he just came back from, uh, 438 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,680 playing in the British open where he finished a tie for eight, but he was only one stroke 439 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,520 off of being, there was a bunch of people tied at it. 440 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:49,520 He would have been four. 441 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:50,520 Okay. 442 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:51,520 One stroke. 443 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,520 Yep. 444 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,120 So the guy could play, but he never paid, played competitively after that, uh, in terms 445 00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:57,120 of a major. 446 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,600 I mean, he always played in the north south, but he never played in the U S open or any 447 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,280 of the top 10, three times in the U S open from like 19 to 1910. 448 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,280 Right. 449 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:07,280 Yeah. 450 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:08,280 During that child period. 451 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,560 I was here and he didn't play after that. 452 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,400 He left here and he went to Essex, uh, for three years. 453 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,840 Cause he got a house there. 454 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,120 He lived on the property. 455 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:18,120 Wow. 456 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:26,880 Um, and then, um, I mean, I think it was pretty clear in 1910 that he, he really didn't want 457 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:27,880 to be a club pro. 458 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:28,880 Right. 459 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,280 He really liked designing courses. 460 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,280 Yeah. 461 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,960 And Oakley needed a full time pro. 462 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:33,960 Okay. 463 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,120 So it seemed that it was very amicable. 464 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:41,080 His, his move to Essex, a lot of Oakley members belonged to Essex. 465 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:46,520 And so he went up there for three years and they were ecstatic with what he did. 466 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:47,520 Yeah. 467 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:52,800 Um, and then he had this kind of bumper year where he was living in Newton and trying to 468 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,880 build this, uh, this business. 469 00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:04,480 And he, I think he did 13 clubs designed in 1914, but Oakley gave him playing privileges. 470 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,480 Okay. 471 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,480 Uh, here. 472 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:13,360 And, and again, I talk about this guy transcended the, you know, the servant, um, uh, master 473 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:17,200 of attitude in those days. 474 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,800 That's almost unimaginable that you would give a former pro playing privileges at a 475 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:22,800 private club. 476 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:23,800 Yeah. 477 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,400 I mean, it's kind of a snooty, but that's just the reality. 478 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,400 That's so great. 479 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,720 When you dial that into your thinking about him, this is a special guy. 480 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,720 Yeah. 481 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,680 He was just by the membership of the different person, basically not just, yeah. 482 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,560 No, it's that's amazing. 483 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,160 I mean, it just seems like from, from even from the beginning of the story that I've 484 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,160 heard so far is that the, the, the gentleman, Robert Wilson definitely had to have seen 485 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,280 something in him to have him come across, you know, try to, try to bring him in there. 486 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:57,440 He had to be a very, uh, you know, care charismatic character, um, for all these people to follow 487 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,440 him. 488 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,040 And I think it's just a great testament of his character and who he was. 489 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,640 I'm sure he was a very fine character to have a chat with. 490 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,800 Tim, we talked about that a lot, like in the PGA world, right? 491 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,480 We've talked about that as far as like us going through our PGA schooling and getting 492 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:14,480 our class a card. 493 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:20,000 And that first time that, that I went to my PGA level one, and I talked about this even 494 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:26,760 last week on my podcast, but, um, you know, when you walk into level one and the instructor 495 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:33,880 has the sign up there as you walk into the room of the responsibilities and duties of 496 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:41,240 the club pro and it's 35 deep, 35 positions deep, you know, greenskeeper, golf cart fleet 497 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,920 management, retailer, business guy. 498 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,440 Hey, can you play a little bit? 499 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:46,600 Can you teach? 500 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,360 Are you able to, you know, read a P and L sheet? 501 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,840 And you do this like, it's amazing. 502 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,200 It just shows you the origin for us now and where we are. 503 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,160 And then throw on course designer on it too. 504 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,800 Go ahead and do that on the side. 505 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,800 Just go ahead and design world renowned designs. 506 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:02,800 Right. 507 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,200 And the other part I want to bring up too with Dan here is, and, and Dan, like I said, 508 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,760 I didn't know he was here for 31 years so far. 509 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:15,440 Um, amazing is when you, you know, the whole reason I came to Massachusetts, me and Dan 510 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:16,440 really haven't talked. 511 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,120 Um, I've been in Tampa for 35 years, one of the main reasons I came was cause of Scott 512 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,120 Johnson. 513 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,120 Yeah. 514 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,120 Right. 515 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,240 And Scott Johnson has been here for 24 years. 516 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,120 And if you look at the list of pros professionals that you see on the wall, there's some long 517 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,080 standing Paul Donahue was, was he here? 518 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,240 There's some guys who've been here for, you know, they're not just kind of to and out 519 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,560 with my point, Tim, right? 520 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,280 These guys, they, they become kind of that, I'll use the term cause Dan uses sort of the 521 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:51,600 master servant sort of role, but that the membership views Scott as definitely kind 522 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,560 of more of a, you know, a person on the same level we'll call it. 523 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:56,560 Yeah. 524 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:05,640 So what I find fascinating that even today, so many Scots, men that were born in training 525 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:11,280 golf in Scotland still outnumber the Americans that have been out broked. 526 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,840 I think our last Scott was Fred Lowe. 527 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:14,840 Yeah. 528 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,440 And he was here for 23 or 18 years. 529 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:18,440 Yeah. 530 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,440 Right. 531 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:20,440 Yeah. 532 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,400 I mean, Tim, again, usual in this business, right? 533 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:23,400 Cause you're bound to piss somebody. 534 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,400 Exactly. 535 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:25,400 That's what I'm saying. 536 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:34,760 If I just read this, Tim, if I just read this from 1920 to 2024, okay, we've got one, 537 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:40,840 two, three, four, five, six professionals in 104 years. 538 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,000 That shows you the loyalty, first of all, the membership at Oakley and kind of the importance 539 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,360 that the professional holds at the facility. 540 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,960 I think there's been more Popes. 541 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:51,960 Right. 542 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:52,960 There you go. 543 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:53,960 Exactly. 544 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:54,960 Exactly. 545 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,800 And yeah, we've got two Scottish guys, John Collin and Fred Lowe. 546 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,360 Paul Donahue was here for 31 years. 547 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,760 Like it's just, it's just amazing. 548 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:10,040 It's really a good testament to the golf course, the membership, to the board of directors, 549 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,640 the people who realize that, Hey, once you get somebody good, you want to keep them. 550 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,320 And then vice versa from the employee side, I'll say it from Scott's side. 551 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,240 Once you get to a club where you do feel appreciated, that'd be the term or, you know, like, you 552 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,240 know, that you want to stay and there's, that's a great way for both sides. 553 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,920 It keeps the continuity of the tournaments and the operation going. 554 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,920 The other thing I love about this, this facility is that, you know, just not the rich history 555 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,120 that you guys have with Donald Ross and his history. 556 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,400 I mean, you guys have a rich history with, with presidents beyond the property, Bobby 557 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,960 Jones beyond the property, women's amateur association and how big of a role that Oakley 558 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:50,960 has played in that. 559 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,800 I mean, it's, it's, it's huge. 560 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,960 I mean, it's just like Dan said, it's definitely hitting above its weight and it's a, it's 561 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,040 a huge history. 562 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,040 It's a rich history. 563 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:00,040 You guys have there. 564 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,040 It's amazing. 565 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:06,680 What I've been impressed with him is that the membership has taken such care of this 566 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:07,960 course. 567 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:16,720 If you look at the grounds professionals that they've allowed to come in and consult, 568 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,920 well, the people that have actually worked on this, this course, it's, it's a who's 569 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:22,920 who. 570 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:30,600 I mean, it's, it starts obviously with Willie Campbell and he hands off to Ross in, in the 571 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,760 thirties till he comes in here. 572 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,760 Yeah. 573 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:34,760 Wow. 574 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:35,760 That's a, that's a conversation. 575 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:41,520 We have to, that he, that he wrote on, on the course. 576 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,680 For our listeners, telling us, did, did Augusto master it right? 577 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:47,680 Like with Bobby Jones? 578 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:48,680 No, that was Mackenzie. 579 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:49,680 Mackenzie, sorry. 580 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:55,160 But he, it did all the courses around New York. 581 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,200 So Winkford and he was prolific. 582 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,200 Yeah. 583 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,200 Sorry. 584 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,000 And he and Ross were just real good buddies. 585 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:10,560 So then, you know, it's just even beyond that, we, when we've had Ron Forson here recently 586 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,200 to look at stuff and Andrew Green's been looking at stuff. 587 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,560 So even to this day, it's just best in class. 588 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,760 You got to take care of this thing where we're, we're just caretakers of a very historic place. 589 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,760 Let's not screw it up. 590 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:24,760 Right. 591 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,880 So we don't let members go out there and realign the, the layout. 592 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:35,080 So even that, when you redesigned number three last year, that was a, it's not just a, hey, 593 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,320 we're going to redesign number three. 594 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:42,480 There's a couple of years, if not more of like diligent work on, hey, we don't want, 595 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,480 we want to maintain the integrity of the golf course. 596 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,200 But maybe we've also realized that with the growing practices and kind of the cutting 597 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:54,720 practices that we can speed the greens up so fast that it maybe has become not what 598 00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:57,440 Ross envisioned or whatever you want to call it. 599 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:02,520 I mean, he writes that putting should not be a game of chance. 600 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:03,520 Yeah. 601 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,920 And on a bunch of the greens that are out there today in Ross courses, that's exactly 602 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:07,920 what they are. 603 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:14,560 And it's Andrew Green calls it pillowing and it's, it's a hundred, 125 years of stuff 604 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,000 that you put on the green. 605 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:23,880 And that's when you get these turtleback greens that were never envisioned by, by Ross. 606 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,280 And I guess if they were rolling five, you could probably still play them. 607 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,280 Okay. 608 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,440 Impossible at today's speeds. 609 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:37,720 So many great Ross courses in the area have taken to this Charles river, Braeburn. 610 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:42,400 There's been a lot of time looking at it and adjusting these screens to try to get them 611 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,440 back to what Ross wanted, make them bigger. 612 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,760 I think people thought it was sexy to have smaller round greens, but that's not what 613 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,440 was designed and you end up with less pin placements and less interesting experience. 614 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,440 Right. 615 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,440 My brother's course. 616 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,480 So we've talked about this before is a Cohassie country club. 617 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:07,920 So that's in Southbridge and it's a nine-holer and that's a, it's a very unique 1918 Ross 618 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,920 design. 619 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,640 But same similar thing, like the greens. 620 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,000 I love, I love good short par threes. 621 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:20,080 Like they don't all have to be 225 yards, which is kind of what you see on tour now. 622 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,200 Those types of things where these guys are hitting five irons, T Mac mean you were hitting 623 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,680 five woods or three woods. 624 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:26,680 Yeah. 625 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:27,680 You know, like 626 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:28,680 Number seven at Silverado. 627 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:29,680 Yeah. 628 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,960 Like the 140, 145 yard, which I think is like number 15 here. 629 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,520 I think that's an amazing golf ball. 630 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,080 It's just arguably the signature hole for the course just because of the view and where 631 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,640 it's at and the Lake. 632 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:47,400 And it's, it's, it's 148 from the back tees, I think, depending on where the flag's at, 633 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,240 but it's just such a great hole where you can change pin positions, wind direction factors 634 00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:53,800 in it's a downhill hole. 635 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,000 So like you've got a lot of factors coming in. 636 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:03,040 14 come back is 185 yard tough hole coming up the hill with an impossible green, arguably 637 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,220 when you get it at green speed. 638 00:37:04,220 --> 00:37:08,640 So the fact that he went back to back with, and the reason I bring all that up is that 639 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:15,020 Mark's course, Cohassie country club in Southbridge number three is 185, 190 yard par three going 640 00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:20,760 up a hill with a really difficult green and number four is 130 yard par three. 641 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,080 Really cool back to back. 642 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,080 Yeah. 643 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,080 Yeah. 644 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:32,000 So when we were analyzing the course to try to tell the story of a journey across Oakley, 645 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,480 it is amazing. 646 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:40,080 The thoughtfulness Ross put in, I mean, you hit every point on the compass with our grades. 647 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:48,200 I mean, he was just so out of it, he didn't want to see more parallel fairways, right? 648 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,200 And just, yeah. 649 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,800 And he did it on 85 acres. 650 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,360 It's absolutely mind blowing how we put this course together on a little tiny property. 651 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,080 Shoehorned it in there. 652 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:08,920 With 1900 technology, not with scopes and gradients and figuring out computer animations. 653 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:13,280 The other thing I'm amazed about over there, Dan, is that he did all this before the time 654 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:18,960 of the technology that we have today. 655 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,400 How many years did it take? 656 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:25,360 I mean, 11 total or did he just kind of tinker around with one hole or a couple holes? 657 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,000 There were three major renovations. 658 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,800 And he pressed the membership and the membership responded. 659 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,520 We bought a steam shovel for the 1907 renovation. 660 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:38,520 Oh wow. 661 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,480 And not many people did that. 662 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,240 They were still working with a team of horses in most courses. 663 00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:50,520 So he wasn't bashful about asking for toys. 664 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:57,960 So the three major renovations, and so 1910 was the last one and we're landlocked. 665 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,080 And I think that was part of the move to Essex. 666 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,080 I mean, it was just going to be maintenance from there on. 667 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,080 He couldn't do anything. 668 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,480 He had done it. 669 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:06,480 His work is done. 670 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:12,560 And so, you know, no complaints. 671 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,560 He did us right. 672 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,320 So bring us Dan, bring us to 1998 because I think that's an unbelievable story about 673 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,120 his granddaughter showing up for the 100 year celebration. 674 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,120 Yeah. 675 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,120 Right. 676 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,120 Yes. 677 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,960 Mrs. Pippitt, she came. 678 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,880 Dr. Shea reached out to her. 679 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:38,080 She was living in Vermont and I have the correspondence and it's absolutely fair. 680 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,680 What a delightful woman. 681 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:45,040 I didn't get a chance to chat with her, but the fellows that did kept records. 682 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:51,600 And certainly this correspondence, she just was such a lady and still had a memory of 683 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:58,440 Oakley and spoke how her father will forever be grateful for the star that they gave him. 684 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:05,320 And she said he always maintained friendships to the end with many Oakley members. 685 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:10,140 So she comes down and God bless her. 686 00:40:10,140 --> 00:40:12,840 She brings a check to pay for the evening. 687 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,840 And she's like, oh yes, right. 688 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:24,360 And I have a letter where she's, oh, Dr. Shea is sending the check back to her and it's 689 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,640 a copy of his letter to her and then her response, what are you doing? 690 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:29,640 I just have to pay my way. 691 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:34,800 So it's that old Scottish, you know, pay my way kind of philosophy. 692 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,960 But she spoke a great deal with a bunch of our members. 693 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,680 And the thing that might take away from so many of those conversations is that she said, 694 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:50,120 I never saw my dad when I was growing up, when we were in Pine Estuary, when we were 695 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,880 in a little Compton. 696 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,680 And the message I get from that is that he was always on the road. 697 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:07,040 And there's a bit of a controversy out there, you know, with 430 courses, how could he possibly 698 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,240 have ever seen them all? 699 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:19,560 And so there's actually some people have theorized that he saw and was active with a third of 700 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,200 them. 701 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:29,120 He might have visited a third of them once or twice and sent Hatch, who was his right 702 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,080 hand guy, to do some work. 703 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,720 But they speculate a full third of them are just tabletop designs. 704 00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:40,880 And that last part, I just can't wrap my head around it. 705 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,400 They're spending so much time researching him. 706 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:45,680 And Dr. Healy is the same way. 707 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,200 We're like, you know what? 708 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,320 I don't see this guy putting his name on a lot of courses that he didn't have intimate 709 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,400 knowledge of. 710 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,800 And the fact that she said, you know, she never saw him, the fact that if you look at 711 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,240 where his courses are located, they're clustered. 712 00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:03,760 And they're always near a railhead. 713 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,320 And that's how obviously travel happened in those days. 714 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:12,240 So it's certainly conceivable that he could have gotten to all these. 715 00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:18,640 Probably the majority, far more than just 60 or 70 percent of them. 716 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:23,880 So makes sense because the Ohio courses he did, Kyoto, which is where Nicholas grew up, 717 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:24,880 I think. 718 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,600 I mean, he's got a bunch in Michigan. 719 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,200 He's got North Carolina, a ton in North Carolina. 720 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,760 So that's a good point. 721 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,640 New Hampshire, with a cluster. 722 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,400 We already talked about Rhode Island. 723 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,400 So yeah. 724 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,400 Yeah. 725 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,440 So that was our thinking. 726 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,480 And it was built up a little bit by her. 727 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,880 But it was such a treat for us to have her here. 728 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,440 And I think she she passed in 2000. 729 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,760 So it was very fortunate. 730 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,120 She was in great spirits. 731 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,680 She wasn't in firm at all. 732 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:54,680 Right. 733 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:55,680 That's great. 734 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:56,680 Wow. 735 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:57,680 Wow. 736 00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,960 I think we were pretty blessed to have this one, right? 737 00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:00,960 Absolutely. 738 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,960 Absolutely. 739 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:07,780 My only question to you, Dan, is that I know that he did two designs for Oakley. 740 00:43:07,780 --> 00:43:11,840 What did he happen with the one that you guys did not, that Oakley didn't accept? 741 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:12,960 Did he ever do anything with it? 742 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,760 Did you guys hang it on a wall or did that just get kind of lost with time, maybe? 743 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:25,720 Well, I'll tell you, I didn't know it existed until Bradley Klein does his award winning 744 00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:27,600 book on Donald Ross. 745 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,080 And he has the wrong design in his book. 746 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,160 And I'm looking at it and say, what is this guy doing? 747 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:34,160 That's not our court. 748 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,160 We need research. 749 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:41,760 And anyway, corrected it in his subsequent editions. 750 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,040 But that we were blessed. 751 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:52,160 Most of our history and artifacts were destroyed in the 1962 fire that just consumed the old 752 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,700 clubhouse. 753 00:43:53,700 --> 00:44:01,120 And so we didn't have really many old records at all. 754 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:08,240 Then about 20 years ago, someone stops by and it was a descendant of one of the early 755 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:16,040 secretaries of the club that found all these board minutes in their attic. 756 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:17,520 They're all written in cursive. 757 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,080 This is gold. 758 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,320 20 years of board minutes. 759 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,320 Oh, historians. 760 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,840 It's a treasure trove. 761 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,840 I mean, just gold. 762 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,240 And I don't know if you've ever read it, cursive. 763 00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:31,560 I mean, we're all trained to read it. 764 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,480 But it's hard to read. 765 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,960 But we have a historical committee here. 766 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:41,960 And we'll sit around this table and maybe there's some adult beverage in the room. 767 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,760 But anyway, you get to read them. 768 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,040 And we've read through them all. 769 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,520 And just some wonderful finds. 770 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:56,880 And one of the biggest ones was people, including some well-known authors who have written about 771 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:02,440 Ross, have said, you know, Oakley is not, this 1910 course has been altered. 772 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,120 It's not a Ross course. 773 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:13,040 And the big criticism is the transitions between Green to T-Box are all very consistent except 774 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,600 for seven and eight. 775 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:30,200 And we found in the minutes on May 15th, 1910, the board voted to order the grounds committee 776 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:36,720 to lay out two new holes, seven and eight, according to plans by Donald J. Ross. 777 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:37,720 In the minutes. 778 00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:38,720 There you go. 779 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:39,720 Right. 780 00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:42,160 And it was so awesome. 781 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,160 Oh, yeah. 782 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:44,160 That's validation, right? 783 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,160 Right. 784 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:46,160 That's validation. 785 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:53,200 So, you know, that helped us understand, fill in a lot of the pieces that we didn't understand 786 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,200 previously. 787 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,160 That's such a find, like you said. 788 00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,160 Absolutely. 789 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,360 I don't want to keep him too long because he's already spent enough time with us. 790 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,800 But I really appreciate you coming over, Dan. 791 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:12,280 Yeah, Sean, Tim, you guys are great spreading the gospel about golf. 792 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:20,360 And you can probably tell from my comments, this is a topic I'm pretty excited to make 793 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:28,560 sure people get straight, you know, our role and the real importance of Ross to this club 794 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,200 and a lot of our membership. 795 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,840 Well, like you said to me a couple of weeks ago, like, you know, we've got a historical 796 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,400 society and we don't want to keep it under wraps. 797 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,640 Like, we want to spread the word and tell people about it. 798 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:44,640 So whether this becomes part of the Oakley, you know, history or whatever. 799 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,400 But I think it's a great way to expose because there are so many new members. 800 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,080 I mean, obviously, I've only been for three months, but there's so many new members. 801 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,560 It's kind of changing the membership. 802 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,480 You get some guys who've been here for a long time. 803 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,680 But there's a lot of people that don't know what they don't know. 804 00:46:58,680 --> 00:46:59,680 They're on the bottom line, right? 805 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:00,680 They just don't. 806 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,600 They just think it's either the hats. 807 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,520 I don't know if you've seen them in the pro shop that we just got in. 808 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:06,520 I designed them. 809 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,920 I did use that Brandon Bills company, Tim, that I did down there. 810 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,600 So, OK, great company. 811 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,280 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 812 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,240 So on the on the front of the hat, I put the original Ross like that was what I made sure 813 00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:21,520 that I put on the on the hat because I wanted to make sure people understood that it was 814 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,200 the original Ross design, you know, his golf course. 815 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,140 I think it's something to pay homage to. 816 00:47:27,140 --> 00:47:31,960 My next round of hats, I'm going to put Strawberry Hill on part of them or just something to 817 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:32,960 kind of keep. 818 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,640 The name Oakley, by the way, is spelled L E I G H. 819 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,880 Yeah, I don't know if I get in trouble with maybe using that. 820 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:41,880 We'll see. 821 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:42,880 Maybe some copyright infringements there. 822 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:43,880 Yeah, sure. 823 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:44,880 OK, so step on. 824 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:45,880 OK, OK, yeah. 825 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:46,880 Well, that's great. 826 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,880 I got you. 827 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,880 You're tying the history into those things is is important. 828 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:52,880 I'm glad you're doing that. 829 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:53,880 Just don't lose it. 830 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:59,600 And just like you said, it's for the gospel. 831 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,000 We've had a lot of people from the Donald Ross Society reach out to us. 832 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,400 They know we wrote this book last year. 833 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,960 And it does fill in those 10 years better than anything that's out there. 834 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,760 And I don't know if any of your listeners, if they have an interest, I know they have 835 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,380 a few of these still here. 836 00:48:14,380 --> 00:48:17,640 They could reach out to the club if they want to acquire one. 837 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,080 I don't know how they handle that. 838 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:20,760 But is that how they are? 839 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,620 Listeners could get more information on Donald Ross and designs and all that good stuff is 840 00:48:24,620 --> 00:48:28,200 is there a society or what website should they go to, Dan? 841 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,200 Or should they go? 842 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:34,560 They should probably just go to the Oakley Country Club dot org and and get the phone 843 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:39,920 number and and and just call over and whatever answers could could guide them. 844 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:40,920 Yeah. 845 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:42,600 I think the pro shop has them too. 846 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:43,600 Yeah. 847 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:44,600 Yeah. 848 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,160 We'll get if we get people interested, we'll get them in their hands. 849 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,400 Let's put it that way. 850 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:48,400 Absolutely. 851 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,040 So now that's great stuff. 852 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,260 And I'm excited, Tim. 853 00:48:52,260 --> 00:48:54,040 This was one I was really looking forward to doing. 854 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,400 I really, again, appreciate Dan. 855 00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:01,280 Thank you coming in and talking about it and thank you for thank you for letting us do 856 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:02,280 this. 857 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:03,280 You guys are great. 858 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:04,280 Thanks for the opportunity. 859 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:05,280 Yeah. 860 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:06,280 Good stuff. 861 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:07,280 Yeah. 862 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:08,280 Thank you, Dan. 863 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:09,280 Thank you for the historical preservation that you're doing. 864 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:10,280 Great work. 865 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:11,560 Thank you so much for being on the podcast. 866 00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,480 We certainly appreciate it. 867 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,760 And I'm really hoping we can get you on again, because I think there's a lot more history 868 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,080 we can dive into even more. 869 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,080 We just went to 1910. 870 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,600 We got to go from 1910 to 2024. 871 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,040 I know we got 100 years still to go. 872 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,040 I can't wait. 873 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,040 Part two coming up. 874 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,040 Yeah. 875 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,040 100 years. 876 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,040 Great stuff. 877 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,040 All right. 878 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:31,040 All right. 879 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:32,040 Thanks, Tim. 880 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,040 Thank you. 881 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:34,040 Thank you, Dan.