Sit back and get ready to take off with Dynamic Golf.
Welcome back Dynamic Golf listeners.
I'm your co-host Tim McElveen and with us today is Sean Clots.
Sean, tell us about a great conversation that we had with Pat Lane today.
Hey Tim Mc and hey listeners.
This one was fun Tim Mc.
This was one of our kind of good gets we'll call it.
Pretty exciting to get Pat Lane.
She's a superintendent at Oakley Country Club.
He's been up here in Watertown, Mass.
14 years as a superintendent.
I think for our listeners Tim Mc, I think the best thing about this one is there's so
much insight into kind of the behind the scenes part of what Pat does on a daily basis.
Kind of how he runs his staff, how he runs the facility, the interaction he has with
the head pro Scott Johnson.
His boss is the Greens superintendent or the Greens committee chairperson sorry and that's
typically a member at Oakley.
An unpaid position but people that just have passion for Oakley and the golf course and
I think the thing that the listener is going to get is basically how much passion you have
to have to do Pat's job to be a superintendent.
We've seen it with people that we've worked with Tim Mc at our different facilities in
Tampa.
You've worked with some good people.
You actually started kind of in the superintendent world didn't you or kind of the grounds crew
world?
Yeah as a young man my father encouraged me to get into the agronomy side of the game
of golf.
Being that baby boomers were going to be coming around he thought that maybe me being a superintendent
or a groundskeeper would be a very good way for me to make a living since I was a person
that liked being outdoors.
And I just found that in the end I kind of liked being indoors and being on the other
side so it was kind of interesting to see how Pat went from wanting to be on the inside
you know thinking you'd be in the pro shop to being outside and it's just amazing how
this game of golf can transverse the way that you look at things and give you a great career
in many different ways.
It's so cool there's so many different opportunities in the game.
I think some of the things that we learned about Pat that I didn't even know because
that was like the first time I really sat down and talked to him in the three months
I've been up here because we do different jobs.
I'm inside in the pro shop I brought a tournament it's helping out teaching and he's out there
outside making the product that we have to sell or to give to our members type of thing.
He's making that daily on a daily basis and as good as he can.
So he's got resources which is great Oakley does give him resources that's always a good
part of a superintendent to be able to have the tools the resources the staff to be able
to execute what he's trying to do.
So and he came from you know it's funny TMAC as I think back now over the first three months
of being up here at Oakley I get this question a lot when I first when I first got here was
hey Sean really nice to meet you.
Where are you coming from?
You know where are you coming from?
And I keep saying to people I'm coming from Tampa I've been a head pro and superintendent
at different golf courses but honestly what they're kind of looking for is like what golf
course did you come from?
What facility did you come from?
Because this is such an established and elite place that a lot of these a lot of this ex
you know assistant pros and ex even maybe even superintendents like they came from lineage.
So Pat's lineage is pretty pretty established like he started he came from Redtail which
is a fantastic golf course out in the western part of the Massachusetts area.
I believe they held the US public links maybe qualifier or they might have held the entire
thing there.
So he came from there kind of directly but he's also worked at Taconic which is another
again another great golf course in the western part of the state and even back in 98 he was
telling us he worked at the country club right that's Brooklyn mass.
Yeah where they just hosted the US Open a couple years ago.
US Open the Ryder Cup is what he was there for that's back in like 98.
So he saw that whole prep he was there for about a year prior to the Ryder Cup.
So he was able to kind of witness the prep for that type of event and that was just a
great thing for him to be able to kind of see and then have that experience bring it
to what he does on a daily basis over here at Oakley.
So I think that's one of the coolest things he went to UMass, UMass agronomy side.
Great school and the thing that the other thing that kind of hit both of us as we talked
about this after T-NAC you and I the number of people that are some of the kids that are
applying has really dwindled to the agronomy side.
Yeah I was very shocked in the numbers of when he started it was in the hundreds and
now it's just a handful of kids.
Like in the tens or something right he said tens or fifteens or twenties.
I wanted to say there's almost seven or under ten or something like that but you know the
number whatever it is it's very small and you know the big part is if we don't you
know get those people out there and you know enjoying this job and not making them slaves
of the job and getting these people we're not going to have a product anymore.
You know we've got to have leaders in that industry we've got to have people that want
to do be superintendents and we've got to make sure that we highlight those people and
make them sure that they feel welcomed and you know committed to what they're doing.
Absolutely absolutely.
Hey you know what I think we've talked enough T-MAC let's let our listeners have their
insight and just into a great conversation with Pat Land and Oakley Country Club.
Hope you guys enjoy this and we'll see you on the next one.
Thank you so much.
With hey there's upcoming tournaments coming up right.
That relationship I've always been lucky to work with good superintendents too.
Definitely not the level that you guys are at currently as far as the budgets we'll call
it and also the membership but just talk on that a little because he's been here for 24
years.
I mean which is just T-MAC that just shows you what Oakley is by the way right.
These two guys have been around for this long how good this facility is.
I can probably count on one hand in 13 years here where I've had a disagreement with Scott
and it wasn't even with Scott it was with one of his former assistants and it was it
was actually probably more of a misunderstanding.
I mean it as far as I'm concerned if Scott asks me to do something we're going to do
it no matter what because if I ever ask him to do something he does it and that's a give
and take that maybe a lot of pros and supers don't have which is sad because I mean let's
face it this if you're not a team forget it and you can't you I have worked at clubs before
where the superintendent didn't like the pro and the pro didn't like it and I just don't
get that.
I mean we're all here for the same reason to make this golf course really really good
so that the members are happy.
They're paying our salaries so whatever they want we're trying to give to them.
So if the pro and the super and the GM or the clubhouse manager aren't on the same page
there's going to be problems.
Me and Scott have been yeah I mean he's a golfer I'm a player too.
We've won the pro super together.
We probably should have won it several other times but I probably choked it away.
We have we play golf at times during during season whenever we can.
We both are sports fans.
We just we just get a lot.
We hit it off right away and it's been that way ever since.
I don't want him to write he's telling me he's going to retire maybe four or five years
right here.
I love him to stay for 15 more.
I'm afraid what the next guy's gonna be like maybe it's you I don't know.
We have a great dynamic here.
He's he unfortunately he doesn't text message as well as I do because he's about 10 years
older than me hasn't gotten into that yet.
Other than that we communicate great and it's been great since ever since I've been here.
Do you carry your phone?
I carry my phone okay all times.
It's funny because Scott doesn't know he doesn't.
It's one of those things again team that you would understand this like if you carried
your phone all day remember you're given lessons for six hours a day right.
Oh yeah.
You can't you just can't because you have to write a person in front of you right and
from the customer side member side you know they'll build their relationship with the
people in front of you.
You can't be looking at the phone so he does it at the end of the day type of stuff but
I understand what I'm probably good.
Well on a superintendent level you don't want to be talking on the phone when you're on
a golf course because members will see that and they're like who's he doing and you're
trying to talk low and it's just a bad look.
So if someone calls me I almost always throw out the voicemail and then shoot him a text
right away and that's where Scott's like answer the damn phone.
And he's right I should answer it more but a lot of times I am on the golf course.
But it is a little different like you guys don't even have your phones that's how I communicate
with my assistants because we can't do we hit we had the radios here and we have a lot
of problems with interference from the airport with our irrigation system.
So I just went strictly to cell phones it just makes it a lot easier because everybody
texts.
Yeah that's great.
Hey Mac you got some questions I got more but.
Yeah you know I was wondering what are some rewarding aspects that you've been you know
at the golf course what are some some rewarding things that you've seen as being a superintendent
there especially with the members and all that.
What have you had to experience there?
Projects you've been able to accomplish type of stuff.
Yeah I always look at it I don't I don't look at success until August 15th every year.
So if you get past August 15th and that date might actually be expanding now because it
does stay a little warmer throughout the summers.
But I always looked at it if you didn't lose any turf if you don't have a problem with
the green if things were looking decent by August 15th then you can take a sigh of relief
and appreciate the product you are giving to this membership.
So even though I do take a ton of pride in how this place looks on weekends and how this
place looks for events and tournaments there's always the what if aspect of this job because
of the environment.
You can't control what the weather is going to do you don't know if it's going to rain
you don't know if it's going to be 95 and humid you don't know what's going to happen.
So it's kind of hard to look at it in June and say oh man this place is awesome because
in two weeks it might be different and that's a fact you know you just do not know.
If you sit back and you know put your arms behind your head and say I did it in June
that's when problems happen.
So usually at the end of August is when I will say another great job another great year
and then I sit back and I reward myself by playing more golf because that's what I love
to do.
I you know you guys as golf professionals and me as a superintendent what's the one thing
you love to do play golf what's the one thing you never do play golf.
So we're in the worst possible business.
The game got us here.
We should have got into finance or insurance.
Exactly because all my buddies were in finance playing way more golf than me.
Tim when I was going to talk about basically how many how many staff do you have.
How many staff do you have.
How many do you kind of keep it revolving.
Has it changed seasonally a little bit during the winter versus summer.
It changes seasonally.
Sometimes we have so we have eight full-time guys.
That yep that's all year and that and that has increased.
I've explained to my committees and the board.
Listen if you want solid help you need to offer them full time.
So we've gone from four to five when I first started up to eight.
They stay year-round winter help with the following and yes some people can look at
and say well it's kind of a waste of money.
There's not a lot of stuff to do in the winter.
It is but it pays off all year long when you have a solid core guys.
We can be and girl that's right and Aaron.
We have Aaron now.
Unusual but yes I can't forget that.
We have seasonal staff which brings us up to about 20 in the summer and that's good
for us and that will vary some guys leave some guys come back.
I've got a solid crew of guys that come up from Rhode Island and New Bedford and they've
been coming up here since I started.
There's golf courses all over the place from here to there but they like coming here and
we like having that because they are as reliable as it gets.
They know the golf course.
We've trained them throughout the years.
None of them knows what a seven iron is but they actually understand the game a little
bit now.
So we've been lucky at that aspect to keep the staff that we've had for the most part
in tact over my full 13 years here.
That's important right there.
That's vital right there to have a good crew.
You're only as good as your crew.
That's a fact.
Let me ask you Pat, in your opinion what role does the golf course play in creating a welcoming
and inclusive environment for all golfers there at Oakley Country Club?
Welcoming and inclusive?
Stressful right there.
Stressful.
Well, ask it again.
Did you say for new golfers?
No, no.
What does the course do to kind of include people, the environment?
How does it make it welcoming?
How do you see Oakley make it very welcoming to its members and the environment?
You make it harder during tournaments?
Do you make it easier on certain days?
It's conditioned really well.
That's because of the finances we're given to do it.
Golfers that come here immediately are rewarded with really smooth greens, really fast greens,
raked bunkers.
Everything else is pretty much kept detail-wise in check.
Golfers that come out here have a positive experience that way.
Where it might get negative is the rough can get a little thick, the greens can get sometimes
too fast.
But I feel like that just makes golf a little more challenging for them and it makes people
want to come back as well.
Oakley's not a very difficult golf course.
It's only 6,000 yards long.
So if you're not putting it on 12, and if you don't have the rough a little thick around
the greens, guys will come out here like Scott Johnson and shoot 62.
We don't want that.
We want guys to be around 71 if we can.
But I think it's the only condition.
It's only guarded the golf course.
So that's the defense, right?
That's the only defense.
So if we had greens 10 and we cut the rough at two inches, the course would be simple.
But it's not.
It's difficult.
We try to make people think, hey, if you get above the hole, you might be in trouble here.
And that is the case.
But as far as I think people enjoy coming to Oakley because it is very playable.
I think it's a fun layout.
I enjoy it.
I played it a million times.
I hope I played a million.
Yeah.
So it's such a good Ross design.
We talked about that before.
He's here.
He has some of the signature stuff, even though it was only his first design, Donald Ross.
But he's just got some signature, don't want to go long on greens.
He didn't have a, how many acres is it?
Like 90?
Places, 96.
It's small.
That's a tiny little.
Wow.
I think about Silverado being like 118 and Jovita is probably what?
Almost 250 because it's got two courses.
Yeah, it's got two courses.
It kind of reminds me of the one in Rhode Island, Juan Amoy.
The fences are at the back of the tee and at the back of the green.
And then you see the roads.
That's kind of how Oakley is.
We have nowhere to go.
We can't make it any real, really make it any harder.
But Ross, I mean, it really is a cool design, but it is, I mean, technology is.
We haven't gotten up there yet, team.
Actually, you know, it's, it's a 330 yard hole number eight, let's call it.
We're 35, but you got to be in the fairway, like, you know, like left and right or not.
It's just, it brings bogey into place.
So, and I can tell you six bar fours that are like that idea.
They could be 350 yards or shorter, but the approach has to be done with a club.
We were thinking about number 18 yesterday.
Yep.
You know, that's one of our more challenging periods.
Yeah, it is a huge left to right slope.
And if, if some of our older players are hitting 140, 150 yards in that hole, that's a hard
thing to keep on the golf court.
But yeah, you really can't stop it.
No, you can't.
I mean, unless you're coming in with a wedge and even with a wedge, it's still difficult
to stop the ball from going with that right friend.
And, you know, if you happen to be playing a cut, it's probably going to miss the green
and go down the hill.
So that's, that's the defense of the golf course.
And we have to keep it that way.
Oh, yeah.
What, what, what other projects do you have like a new feature in your head?
Like, I know it's kind of based on Mr. Kelly and Bob, you know, Mike Kelly is your green
sushi guy.
He is, he's my boss right now.
Talk to us a little about that relationship too.
Like how do you guys kind of work together?
Mr. Kelly's great.
But you know, I think I should say something about all of them.
Mike Batista and David Kansian.
Mr. Batista was the president when I came in and he was, so he was the president when
I was hired.
He did everything I asked and he was as good as it gets.
And Doc Kansian was my chairman for probably, I want to say seven or eight years.
It was kind of unconventional, but I think everybody really loved the place.
So they kind of let, let the situation lie.
And then he moved on, but Doc, Doc still friend, still friends with him to this day.
I've gone down to Florida with him.
He was essential in my success here.
I needed it.
And he said, what do you need?
We're going to get it for you.
And they got it for him.
And then after that, I had Dean Orfanos, who was, nobody works harder than Dean in terms
of what he wanted to do for this golf course.
He was a, he had notebooks full of stuff he wanted to do.
He was super organized, great guy.
When he left, I had Mick Fandetti and Mr. Fandetti, as far as the landscaping aspect
of this job, he has a degree in landscape architecture.
He was awesome.
And that, and then I turned into Mr. Kelly, who has also been great.
And Mr. Kelly doesn't have any background in golf.
So he's learning from me.
I learned from him on the numbers aspect is he was an insurance guy forever.
So he's on me on the budgets, but we have a good dynamic as well.
I've never had a bad boss.
I've had support.
Yeah.
I mean, whether it's the individual owner, like you had before.
I had, I had, yeah.
Individual owner, right there with five of them and coming from them to here was a little
bit different, but as, but funny as it be, my dad was the greens chairman when I was
a kid at Wacona Country Club.
Who would have ever known that I'd be a golf course superintendent?
Wow.
Good stuff.
So, um, what else do the members do to help you, Pat?
I mean, are there any other, you know, people out there that kind of help members?
What else they kind of help you with?
Well, they do, uh, every once in a while we do this thing called divot day where members
come out.
They, they, they volunteer their time to fill every divot on the golf course, six ball marks.
We have members that volunteer their time to be on the grounds committee and the golf
committee and various other committees.
They don't get paid a dime.
They do this on their own and it's just for simply for their love and pride of this golf
course.
We also have certain members that are experts in other fields that might lend their time
when it calls for a quick example.
Joe DiSifano, construction guy, he's got a ton of experience with things like that and
landscaping that goes with it.
He, he spearheaded that little project we did in between the ninth tee and the eighth
grand and he did that all on his own.
I mean, we, I didn't ask him anything.
He did it and then he just coordinated with me and we have tons of members who do things
like that.
I, I, they don't come to town right now, but Oakley is a very, very positive membership
and they definitely love their golf course.
Wow.
That's, that's great support right there.
Yep.
It is.
We have, we have tremendous support here.
I think we have a waiting list.
I think there's a ton of people that want to join here and I think that's because of
it.
There's a lot of members that enjoy being here, whether it's a social member at the
pool or whether they want to play, you know, golf five times a week.
I think we have a really good club here, a cool club.
I mean, just, just from a gentleman that's down here in Florida, I mean, you know, I
hear that, you know, Scott Johnson, how well he's running things.
I hear how well you run things like there.
I mean, I'm just excited to get up there and see the course itself.
So I'm sure it's just a first rate facility that I'm just super excited to get up there
and see real soon.
I think you'll enjoy it.
Well, I'll go out and I mean, you will shoot 80 and Scott and Pat will shoot 74.
So Scott had four, Scott has four course records.
I just want to say I did hold the course record once.
Oh, now I'll tell you why.
The ranch club opened in Southwick, Massachusetts and I want to say it was early 2000s and I
played it on the very first day.
I shot 76 and nobody had shot 76 the next day somebody shot 70, but I did hold the course
record for one day.
There you go.
Scott, in your face, buddy.
There you go.
Love it.
So, um, before we leave, I definitely got to hear about the owl story.
If we've got some time here.
Okay.
Yeah.
I've heard about this and I'd love to hear it from you, Pat.
We March 20th.
So Sean just said for a couple of days, we had this little guy we thought was a baby
hawk and he was walking around and clearly he was lost and a couple of Scott had tried
to Scott built a little box and brought him up here because we were afraid he was going
to get eaten by something and then we'd bring him down during the day and hope the mom would
would take him.
My crew was down raking around the pine tree down there and they had looked up and saw
a nest with a mom, a mother owl looking down looking for her baby.
And so they came so we we quickly realized it wasn't a hawk.
It was a baby owl.
So Scott had had it in a little box with some blankets and he was feeding the thing.
We brought it back down there.
My guys threw a couple of ropes up in the tree.
They they we use Scott's box.
They created a little pulley system.
One of them climbed the tree.
I still don't know how he did it because I was in the office the whole time this happened.
I take no credit for this.
This was Lisa and Jose my my poor Teal brothers.
They they pulled this little guy up.
Jose climbed onto the branch and I'm sure he was scared that the mother was going to
attack him.
Mother owls do not mess around.
She stayed away and he pulled the little guy right out of the box, placed him in the nest,
and we got down.
We cleared out of there and that owl survived.
We watched it for the next couple of weeks.
She was feeding them rabbits.
She was feeding them whatever she could.
You know owls are savages.
They just eat whatever they want.
And we watched that owl turn brown, you know, from that white color to brown.
And then she flew away.
So she survived.
We saved an owl here.
Wow.
That's amazing.
That's going above and beyond, especially for the grounds crew.
That's great.
Yeah, that's great.
They love their animals.
So we are environmentally friendly.
Believe it or not.
I know people want to think, oh, you do a spray and then we actually try to take care of the
animals around.
That's great.
That was my first day literally coming up to see Scott on March 20th.
It was a Thursday and some members called in because they were playing.
It was probably 45 and rainy that day.
Like it wasn't pretty yet.
But they they just said, you know, hey, there's a hawk or a bird down there.
And we went down and got it and then like you like, Pat said, we we put it in this box
and we didn't know what to do with it.
Me and Scott knows another member here, too.
I don't know if it was Mr. Folenauer.
There was some other member here as well.
But we were talking about Scott got the kind of typical from Massachusetts got the lady
from like Tufts University.
The Audubon Society lady came over and gave us all the instructions on how to take care
of the next day.
And then then then we see the video that that Pat's staff and saved it and cleared up on.
And it's just an amazing kind of funny that, you know, one of those under under told stories
that people need to hear because it's they do such a great job throughout the entire
year, but just kind of a good way to show the dedication of all the staff of what happens
up here at Oakley.
So definitely going above and beyond.
Yeah.
So again, TMAC, another another guest we could have on for another two hours talking about
agronomy and we didn't even get to like why you do certain things when you do.
Maybe we'll do another one in the future.
Sure.
I'm sort of like, you know, I'm really interested in sort of the seasonality of what you do
compared to compared to Florida.
One of the things I was thinking was in Florida, we know what the weather is going to be.
You know, we know right.
TMAC from basically from April to October, we know it's going to rain at four o'clock
in the afternoon every day.
So there's some negatives and positives to that.
But then that winter season is usually pretty temperate.
But so, you know, the argument down there is do you air five, six times a year?
Do you air five, three times a year, two times a year?
What's the number?
And we didn't really, you know, didn't really get into that with you.
But just bottom line is you guys just do an amazing job every day.
And you can tell that your leadership from your staff perspective, the respect you have
from the members that I want to know from the people who come in the pro shop every
day.
I would say the speed of the greens is never a negative thing.
It's only they think it's cool that they get to play a golf course that has basically tour
like, you know, speed.
And that's that's such a good anyway.
So that's that's my stuff.
TMAC, you have anything else?
No, that's great, Pat.
I certainly appreciate it.
You know, being a guy that came up through the maintenance crew, I definitely I feel
you I know I know it's not an easy job.
And sometimes it's, you know, it's kind of tough.
You get beat up a little bit.
But what you guys do is amazing.
And what you guys do, we don't have a product.
We don't have a job without you guys.
So you guys are what makes this industry move forward.
So thank you, Pat.
Thank you.
I understand that, but let's face it, without the game of golf, we don't have a job.
So it's a little it is.
It is.
I understand what you're saying, but we both play pretty big roles.
Yeah.
Well, you know, we got another another humble one with us here.
So good, though.
So but, you know, just want to say thank you, listeners.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you, Pat, for joining us.
We certainly appreciate it.
We hope to have you on again.
And love to hear more about the seasonality about what you kind of do over there on the
agronomy side to take care of that course throughout the season.
And we'll get into that later.
OK, team, I got one last question.
Yeah.
This isn't this isn't just an Oakley question.
It's probably a superintendent general question.
Yeah.
What can the golfer do, Pat, on a daily basis?
What could they do to make this like make your job easier but continue to keep the golf
course well in great conditions?
My simple ones would be fixing divots, repairing sand, like bunkers, like just in a broad broad
stroke, like what's the things that you would hope the players would do a little more often
so without getting personal to two things, understanding the difference between replacing
a divot and knowing when to replace the divot versus using the sand that we give you.
So you prefer them in Massachusetts versus Florida.
You prefer them to take the dirt that the turf and bring it back.
If you see a couple of roots coming out of the bottom of it and it has soil on it, stick
that baby back on the ground.
If it's kind of pieces and it's not really that thick, put the sand in there.
And the second thing is keep the golf carts in the fairways.
Okay.
All right.
Because people the 90 degree rule is not a thing here.
When you have 10, 15 yards of rough and you have everybody driving in the rough, that
rough is going to die.
But fairways, if everybody just kind of if you just kind of let them get onto the fairway,
everyone will go wherever their ball is and that what that will do is make people drive
in different spots and then you won't see hard damage.
The most damaged golf courses believe it or not have is from maintenance, vehicles, mowers,
it's from us.
Okay.
But the wear problems from golf carts is probably the second biggest.
But if everybody knew how to replace a divot a little bit better, ball marks are ball marks.
People just sometimes they just don't get it.
They're going to miss them.
We we were playing some.
It's not a big problem.
The problem is divots, especially when you have small teams like we have.
Yeah.
And and keeping car traffic all over the place versus in the same spot every single day.
Do you want the player to read to sand in the rough, meaning like when they hit a divot
from the rough?
Would you?
That's what I would.
I would always put fairway divot, sand it if it blows to pieces.
Rough divot.
Just put it back.
No matter what.
Yeah.
It's different.
It's different agronomy.
It's not going to creep over in the rough.
But chances that a ball lands in there are, you know, if your ball lands on an old crappy
divot that's been replaced, you'll be able to have a decent job.
I've heard that from Jeff Sweet down there at Silverado a lot, too, team, not great.
Oh, yeah.
You know, in the rough.
And it's just funny because players are trying to do the right thing.
So they put sand down in the rough and it actually makes it harder to grow.
Like Patrick said, different graphs.
Yeah.
Different consistency.
Keep it on fairways, tees.
That's it.
Yeah.
All right.
So, he's already passed his time.
So Dynamic Golf listeners, really appreciate you guys listening.
Hope you had a good time and we will see you on next episode.
Thank you, guys.
Have a good one.
Thanks, Pat.
Bye.
Hey, guys.
Thanks, T-Max.
You're welcome.
All right.
So.
He's going to be famous in a week.
I know.
All right.
Thanks, T-Max.
Thank you.
Thank you, Pat.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
So.
I'll see you guys for the next one, like three months from now or whatever.