Are you looking to elevate your golf game?
With SwingTheoryGolf.com you will.
Tim, who is a certified PGA professional, offers expert instruction and personal attention
to help you unleash your true potential.
So get ready to tee off with Swing Theory Golf.
Welcome to Dynamic Golf.
So welcome back everybody.
Welcome to Dynamic Golf.
I'm your co-host Tim McElvanagh here, the owner and operator of Swing Theory Golf and
my co-host Sean Glotz.
Hey golfers, how you doing?
Owner of One Stop Golf Club in Wesley Chapel.
So today we have a special guest, a fellow PGA member, a master club fitter and the owner
and operator of Pure Science Golf, Mr. Sean Van Patten.
Thank you for coming on.
Thanks guys, thanks for having me.
Looking forward to it.
Good.
Feels like old home week right here for me boys.
Absolutely.
I don't know what you guys are thinking but it's crazy.
So we all worked together a couple years ago over at Silverado, what five, six years ago.
It's very interesting to see that our paths have varied quite differently from where we
started off to.
So Sean, tell us about your journey and how you've gone to where you are now.
Well obviously, you know, I was an assistant pro at Silverado for five or six years under
Sean, you know, obviously working with Tim.
A lot of day to day operations, running tee sheets, setting up tournaments, stuff like
that.
You know, just your normal assistant professional stuff and one of my life goals and journeys
has always been to get into club fitting and kind of be more on that side of the golf aspect.
So about five years ago I had an opportunity to join the Pure Science team which is a custom
club fitting shop down in Clearwater, Florida.
And you know, it's been an amazing journey.
You know, it's a wonderful operation.
We got a great group of guys that work for us and just the amazing kind of opportunities
to learn more about club fitting and kind of bring that to our clients and see how easy
it is to have, you know, golf games improve based off of club fitting aspect but also
take a little bit of the teaching aspect into it as well.
Gotcha.
Very cool.
Yeah.
So the cool thing to me is that, you know, all three of us, like you kind of find your
comfort zone or what you're good at.
And I love Sean Van Patten to death, but he was not great at being an assistant pro.
Best on the planet.
Yeah, exactly.
And I mean that in the most loving way.
It's just that, you know, he could always tell he was back there in the club repair
room that he kind of created.
Essentially, we didn't have one at Silverado and he was always tinkering on stuff and just
always reading, always watching YouTube.
Like just so many things he would come up to me about.
And I'd be like, Sean, I don't have time for this.
I got to take care of the members needs at that point or whatever.
And he was great, you know, in the operations side.
I don't mean it in a negative way.
It's just you could tell that his passion was, you know, being on the technical side
really and even work in your own game.
Because when I first met you, you had probably been playing like a year, a year and a half
maybe.
Yeah.
And you've been playing a lot of feet and golf for sure.
Especially taking it seriously.
Like 30ish, 28ish, 27?
The first time I picked up a club, I was like 21.
But I really didn't get into like the actual like golf aspect playing until I was like
26, 27.
Yeah.
And you're already 38 now or?
I just turned 41 this year.
Okay.
So I mean in the world of stuff where I played golf since I was 13, when did you pick it
up T-Mac?
Five.
There you go.
And we're still not as good.
Correct.
Yeah.
So I mean, and that's the other thing too about, about, we call them VP listeners, by the way,
just so I'm going to go with that.
But VP always was hitting balls.
I mean, constantly hitting golf balls to the extent where he's still married, but you know,
I don't know how.
Elaine is a great woman.
But you could just tell that you always wanted to work on your game and you got the bug and
you had a good mentor, Tim Pultz, which we've talked about on this before.
Yeah.
And I think it's interesting because as somebody who's trying to improve your game, you look
at different avenues.
So you look at, you know, swing theory and different ways to, you know, try to improve
your game through technique.
But then for me on the equipment side, you know, I really started diving into equipment
once I started to get probably somewhere, maybe around like a 10 handicap, I really
started messing around with stuff, trying to figure out, okay, are there certain ways
that I can go to try to help improve the consistency of what I was trying to do with my golf swing
and stuff like that.
And I think there's a lot of people out there who they don't realize that the two are married
together.
You know, I mean, you look at the best players in the world and there's a reason that they're
playing the equipment they're playing, obviously besides getting paid millions of dollars to
do it.
Correct.
You know, what they have works for them within the company that they're with.
So you know, it's definitely not a one size fits all, you know, something's going to fit
me that's different than what's going to fit Klotz and what's going to fit T Mac over here.
So it's definitely an experience and a journey that, you know, you got to be on for, you
know, quite a while before you can start to figure some stuff out.
Yeah.
So I got I got more if you want me to keep going.
Keep going.
Let's let's go.
So I mean, ironically, I'm meeting with our Callaway sales rep yesterday, Scott Sullivan
in our area, and he's talking about the new AI putter that Callaway is coming up with.
Callaway's gotten big in AI and you know, strokes gained is a term you hear on tour
a lot.
I'm not sure all of our listeners totally understand it, but but bottom line is it differentiates
big prize money versus small prize money.
Yeah, they're trying to find those guys on tour are trying to find decimal incremental
changes to their game.
A third of a stroke here.
Yeah.
Yep.
So they had this chart of basically of the if if Rom John Rom had used now again, you
got it coming from a salesman.
I love Scott, but I've listened to him for 20 years to different sales guys who are always
pumping there.
So basically, he said if they had this chart and if John Rom had used the AI putter with
better heel toe balance on it and more face control, he would have won an additional $8
million last year.
And when they show that that chart to Rom, yeah, he's pissed.
What the hell do you mean?
How did I not have this last year?
Why was that on my back?
Because he's playing an Odyssey putter, right?
Yeah.
And he puts unbelievably makes a ton of putts.
But the difference was the three putt ratio from that 3027 to 30 feet ratio.
Yeah, where those guys three putt sometimes too.
Yeah, but this technology this AI putter the way it comes off the face, whatever that is,
supposedly is going to change that for him.
So it doesn't matter whether you're a brand new beginner golfer who typically, what do
they do?
They get their clubs from their husband, right?
If it's a lady, right?
Or as juniors, your dad, right?
Grandparents, like we played with old stuff.
Yeah, I'm old.
So I played persimmon back in the day.
So did I.
Yep.
And then they're older than me.
Exactly.
So it doesn't matter if you're that brand new beginner golfer or the literally top two
player in the world.
The equipment matters.
Correct.
For sure.
And it's weird to think this because a lot of people think that the better you are, the
equipment matters more.
And I would actually say the vice versa, right?
So obviously, when people come into the shop, they always ask me questions like, well, how
good do I need to be to go through a club fitting?
And our biggest thing is always, well, if you're a beginner, we just want to try to
make sure that the length is correct and the weight is correct.
I'm not so much worried about stuff like shaft flex and stuff like that.
You could take a tour player and give them anything and I guarantee you they can play.
But you take the average person and you give them something that's too heavy and in the
incorrect length and stuff like that, they're going to struggle quite a bit.
So there's very basic fittings you can go through to just kind of get you into stuff
that's going to match up to what you're doing to start with and then as you improve, you
can kind of get a little bit more detailed into what you need.
So there's all sorts of different levels of fitting and kind of how the equipment performs.
You know, and the amazing thing nowadays is nobody makes bad stuff.
You know, that's what's so good about it now.
I mean, doesn't matter any of the big brand names, you know, everybody makes good stuff.
Yeah, good.
That's what I tell people too, like that $600 driver, the $500 driver, once you get to that
level.
Yeah, you it's really just what do you like the look of?
I mean, maybe I'm simplifying it for what you do, Sean, but it's you got to get the
right shaft.
That's the engine.
Correct.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, especially, you know, as far as like how we would operate from, you
know, if somebody was coming in the shop to do like a fitting, you know, and, and I was
just talking to Klotz and TMac before we got on here, kind of, you know, just talking about
the difference of like, you know, how they would do a fitting where they are versus how
we would do a fitting.
A lot of it really is options, you know, I mean, in my shop, we've got around 50,000
different hitting combinations that you could hit.
And obviously, we would never go through that many during a session, but it's having, you
know, a multitude of different shafts that you can try with a multitude of different
heads.
So, you know, maybe you fit into a graphite design shaft or, you know, a Mitsubishi shaft
or something like that with a driver.
And then you try that on different heads and you realize, man, this shaft combination with
this Cobra head or this tailor made or Titleist head, that's what's really matching up to
me.
So it's just, you know, it's just options to try to kind of dial in, you know, everybody's
looking for launch and spin and better dispersion patterns.
That's essentially what we're trying to do from fittings.
And is that what you're really trying to look at is those stats right there when you're
doing a club hitting?
Yeah, especially for kind of two different levels of player, better players, and honestly,
a little bit of an older player, because as you age, you start to lose speed.
So what generally happens is as you lose speed, you don't launch the ball high enough.
Correct.
So we're always looking for ways to try to increase launch and spin kind of for the older
player, you'd be surprised that actually increase in launch and spin will get you some distance
back.
And probably for the better player, a little bit faster club head speed, say with drivers,
say 100 miles an hour or more.
I think the average male is still right around 92 miles an hour is kind of still the average
club head speed, which is weird to say when you see all these guys on tour swinging at
120 plus.
But at that stage, when you start to get into 100, if the swing technique is decent, so
you're hitting fairly level to a little up, then we're going to be looking for, you know,
13 to 15 launch in 22 to 2500 spins.
So you know, if you have decent technique and we're not getting that, then there's definitely
gains out there from a performance standpoint, you can get from equipment.
Gotcha.
I think that's, I feel like we could do a five hour podcast, you know, all three of
us, and we're going to have you come back.
Yeah, because there's just so much great information that we're talking about here for the average,
like you say, beginner average, in advanced top scale level player.
So you touched on something and you did also mentioned that I was the oldest in the group,
so I'll bring it up.
So I don't think I said that out loud.
Exactly.
So 52 years old and you got again, your, your, your friend Tim Pultz, our friend or whatever,
he's about the same age, I think.
And our friend, Fred Bender, like he's a little bit older than that.
Yeah.
So you know, he's in his seventies.
Yeah.
And the biggest thing every time you talk to Freddie, what does he complain about?
Oh, I don't hit it far.
Exactly.
He gave him a wedge for a hundred yards.
He's going to hit inside four feet every single time.
Yeah.
So, but the, but the thing about it, and you see it with the, with the manufacturers.
So I'm going to use Mizuno as the example.
They come up with, with their HL ions.
Great iron.
Yeah.
HL, high loft.
Yeah.
And as a retailer for the last three years, consumer walks in, oh no, I don't want to
hit it higher.
Well, you just said it.
You, you, you don't have the speed anymore.
Yeah.
You're going to actually hit it further if you can get the ball to carry more.
What's amazing about that is I'll always ask customers when they're in the shop, I'll say,
Hey, what do you think of your trajectory?
Do you think you hit a high, low, medium relative to the players you play?
And I would say 90% of them always say they hit it high.
But when you actually get data and you show them and you're like, Hey, well you're peeking
out with a seven iron at 55 feet.
And then you give them something and they start hitting it about 80 feet in the air
and they pick up eight to 10 yards of carry.
They're like, well, I guess I don't hit it very high.
Like, no, you don't.
No, no, absolutely.
It's a, it's so important.
So let's get to the, you know, crux of the matter, whatever you want to call it.
So as a retailer, I'm going to say that again, me and TMac, we're kind of like scratch handicap,
you know, fitters, like we're really good in the world.
We know a lot of the differences of shafts.
We understand how if somebody comes in with a high spinning driver, other than fixing
their golf swing, you know, what we can do with the club itself, move the weights a little
bit, that type of thing.
But why, you know, why is it one price at our place and then at your place, essentially
it's, it's, it's higher because you're getting a more thorough fit.
Maybe like you said, when you walk in your place, you have last time I was there at least
500 shafts on the wall and at least 150 different heads.
So I mean, it's got to be part of that.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously the options are a little bit of the part of it, but again, and I mean,
I've been a PGA pro now at an actual class a guy for three years now, but I've been,
we won't talk about how long it took him to get through the process.
I've been involved with golf now for probably around 13 years.
And I think the biggest difference that I've learned coming through the industry and being
involved as an assistant pro and ordering clubs through the golf shop and then checking
things is as good as the equipment is from a performance standpoint, the stuff coming
in, how you ordered it, especially like irons and wedges for loss lies a lot of times, sometimes
nobody really builds a swing weight anymore.
So the kind of difference that I explained to everybody that comes in the shop is basically
instead of ordering these from basically a plant, a manufacturing plant, we're essentially
a tour van for everybody.
Right?
So we're going to tour, have their stuff built by a specific team that are going to have,
you know, their tolerances are the tightest on the planet.
That's essentially what we are for every single player.
Right?
You know, um, uh, frequency is a way to talk about flex.
So all of our stuff is frequency match so that your, your four iron swings exactly like
your eight iron and your eight iron feels exactly like your wedge.
And you know, so everything's mapped out.
Um, that's important right there.
So even though it says stiff or regular on the flex, the shaft, those, those factories
and this has been going on for 30 years since I've been in the business.
Yeah.
There is no industry standard for flex.
So I mean, you know, when we look at it from a flex standpoint, we kind of have a guideline
on where we would like to see, let's say we have a so-called flex stiff or a stiff flex
that we would chart.
And you know, that might be, uh, for a driver shaft at 45 and a half inches, that might
be 255 cycles per minute from a frequency standpoint, you know, so I mean, there's some
companies who might label a stiff flex and it might come out at two 40 and there's some
companies that might label a stiff flex and it'll come out at, you know, two 62.
So there's no industry standard.
And that's also why a lot of times, sometimes you might see somebody who has a fairly fast
swing but night might not be in your standard X flex because it's all about, uh, profile
of shaft, how stiff it is, where it's stiff.
So is it stiff in the handle?
Is it stiff in the tip, the midsection?
So there's so many different things that go into not only from a fitting standpoint, but
an actual, you know, what do you fit with to take that into consideration with what
you're going to build with, you know, are the clubs going to be over length?
Do you need to make sure that, uh, total weight and swing weight are going to be correct for
the player?
And, you know, it's, it's, we're not just a manufacturing plant that basically gets a
sheet in, pulls a bunch of parts, glues them together, puts grits on them and sends them
out the door.
You know, everything is weighed out, sorted, all the grips are weighed out, all the heads
are weighed out.
If a shaft, if we test it and say the frequency on it's a little bit too high, we don't use
that shaft.
We'll pull another shaft off the wall and check it.
So you know, it's just level of tolerance on builds and then, you know, consistency
from one club to the next, that's going to be the biggest difference on, you know, why
an easiest example I would say is difference would be as you walk into the men's warehouse
and you buy a suit off the rack, you go to Armani or something like that and you actually
get fitted for a suit.
You know, that's, that's going to be kind of the easiest way to understand the difference.
Yeah.
I hear a lot of people say, Oh, I got, you know, fitted over at the PJ super store and
it's really just, Hey, they, they made me swing a couple of times and they said, this
is the best one off the wall and here you go.
And, and they claimed that they got club fitted, you know, and I'm like, yeah.
And you know, I mean, the thing about that is, is there are a lot of really good fitters
out there that are, have their hands tied because of the situation that they're in,
you know?
So talking about, you know, like a big box store, PGA tour, super store or Edwin lots
or you know, golf galaxy, anything like that, you could actually potentially have a situation
where you have somebody who's interested in actually fitting you correctly, but they might
not have the options to make it perfect.
Yeah.
Or the equipment.
Yeah.
You know, we, we've had a few competitors fit some customers of ours and they've come
back and we've done like a retro fit for them and they're surprised that, well, I was told
this was the best, but you've obviously improved off of that.
So, you know, it's, it's definitely not a one size fits all.
And unfortunately in the fitting business, you're kind of limited to what you have.
And you know, I would say we have quite a few options to be able to try to make sure,
you know, we're going to be pretty damn close to getting it right by the time we're, you
know, done and said,
Thank you.
Again, I got three things I want to get to, but I'll start with the one.
So back in the day, 25, 30 years ago.
So let me go backwards first.
So I have a track man in my studio that T Mac teaches off of that I teach off of you
have track man as well.
Yep.
Period.
So that's kind of period.
Like that's like we've invested $20,000 into a machine that guess what?
It might cost you a few more dollars to get the perfect set of clubs for you.
There's a reason.
Yeah.
Because when you do go into, I'm going to use Dick's cause I don't want to really pick
on PJ super store golf galaxy because I feel like those guys are golf specific.
Yes.
They might be selling pickleball on the side now.
Okay.
But they are golf specific.
When the customer comes into me and says, Oh, I got fit down at Dick's again, nothing
against the employee, but that person is covering from the tennis side or from the boating side.
Yeah.
Because the golf guy didn't in the golf guy is not as qualified as we are.
I don't, I mean,
I think they got rid of the PGA guys.
They did.
Yeah.
So I mean, it's just some retail guy working back behind her that enjoys the game of golf.
Yeah.
And again, nothing against that person.
It's just, you are going to get what you pay for.
Correct.
So in my world to bring it down to the, to the retail side on my side, it was, well,
I got fit at Dick's or the one I loved.
And we, me and TMAC talked about this before you got here.
VP was a, my buddy says I'm swinging really fast on the course.
I need to get a stiffer shaft.
Yeah.
So I asked them, where's the ball flight?
Well, it's low and right.
Yeah.
Oh, well, you probably don't need stiffer.
Yeah.
You know,
you know, I mean, the thing is too, is, um, you know, generally friends are there to be
friends and they're trying to help you out.
But I've met very few friends that actually can tell people kind of what they should be
swinging.
They should be swinging.
So, uh, some of the best, uh, stuff I've seen on the golf course is when a buddy grabs another
friend and says, Hey, uh, try this.
Let's see you do this.
And then the guy doesn't make it off the tee.
The next four holes.
Yeah.
And we all, I think as a, as teachers, we all, I'm going to say it for me.
I think all of you guys do.
We hate teaching on the golf course, right?
We hate giving advice.
It's almost impossible.
It is correct.
Cause as soon as we give it and that, and that does happen poorly.
Cause the guy hasn't, he hasn't practiced the thousands of hours like we have with hitting
a seven iron, whatever prior to hitting it on the golf course.
So he tries it on the course, doesn't, and then reverts back and you lost him because
you, yeah.
So that didn't work.
Yeah.
Go back to YouTube, sir.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
And that's the other thing too, is, you know, you'll see people come in and they'll be like,
uh, Hey, I've been, you know, I'll give you an example.
I was given a lesson to a guy who's starting to get pretty good.
And he's, when he first came into me, he was about a 12 handicap and now he's down to around
a seven.
And then he brings up, well, I was watching YouTube.
I saw that.
Wait a second.
When did I say you can watch YouTube?
So yeah, exactly.
I'm going to do that.
Yeah, we still have that.
So again, you mentioned some stuff in there.
So you have some equipment that, that we don't have access to kind of what you said.
Like you said, there's just some fitters out there that don't have access.
So you kind of glossed over this term for the, for the golfer out there is CPMs is cycles
per minute.
Right?
That's a way to measure the frequency of the shaft.
Typically it's done with the head on, but the grip off.
Is that correct?
There's different ways.
So we actually have some chucks that we would attach to a raw shaft that are going to weigh
similar to what a club head will weigh.
So we can do it that way or we can do it with a club head.
We always measure it.
You can measure it both.
So the actual CPM you would be trying to get would be what raw shaft would be because grip
densities and thicknesses and materials will influence CPM slightly.
So you know, true flex, you're trying to have basically a finished length club with the
head weight you're going to be playing, you know, and then check it on that.
So they'll always feel softer with a grip on just because of the material, unless you're
playing maybe something super firm, like a Z cord golf pride Z cords, probably the firmest
grip on the market.
So if you have that, that'll still feel pretty firm, even relative to the, the frequency
if you want to call it, but it's just a frequency CPM.
It's just a simple way for us to make sure.
So when you go through a fitting with us, we check the actual CPM of the club that you've
used and then the club that we're going to build is built exactly to that.
So for example, stiffness, when a shaft comes in raw from the manufacturer, say a driver
shaft, say the club that you hit was a two 64 CPM at 45 and a half inches.
Basically we're going to take that raw and mark the shaft at 45 and a half inches and
a playing length without cutting it, just actually market.
We're going to check the CPM at that length.
And if it's under the CPM, well, we may tip trim it just a smidge to try to get the CPM
up a swing weight.
We'll have an effect on CPM because as a club head gets heavier, it actually softens the
shaft.
So that's the other thing we're trying to look into from that standpoint is trying to
make sure, okay, well we know we've got to come up three swing weight points.
So that's going to drop the CPM three to four CPM.
So then we have to figure out, okay, well maybe we have to tip trim this an extra half
inch to make sure when the swing weight comes out that it's playable.
So it's a little bit of math and stuff that go on into it, but once you kind of understand
the dynamics of weight and shaft flex and stuff, you can kind of get a good little rhythm
going when you're building a set.
I think the other thing that VP has that we don't have, we have a loft and line machine,
a Mitchell loft and line machine, which is the industry standard.
I'm going to still say it's an old school industry standard.
It's still one that you would use.
So I feel very comfortable bending somebody's clubs on it, checking the lies on it.
Side note, I was actually at the PGA show probably, whatever, sometime in the past 10
years, went into one of the educational seminars.
Keds signed up for it online, didn't know who I was going to see.
And I went in, it was the guy talking about club making and I got there two minutes late
so I didn't miss the introduction type of thing.
And basically I thought the greatest point I got out of that seminar was that he said
the best way to get fit period is to do it blind, to not know what you're hitting, right?
Like to not have a company in your head, not have a shaft, I got to hit the graphite design,
orange, ADI, whatever.
Yeah, you know, I would say as you know, open with it.
Yeah, we're an exact, we're an agnostic fitting facility, which means basically even though
I've been on staff with Shrixon and Titleist and stuff in the past, I don't gear players
towards what I play because it's not going to match up to everybody.
You know, I think from a fitter, probably the one thing that surprised me over the last,
especially three to four years, is how good a brand like Cobra is.
And people don't think that because they don't spend a lot of money on advertising and stuff
like that.
They just got Bryson as far as I know, like I'm sure they have others.
He's gone now, he's not even with them.
Because he got grumpy with them.
Yeah, and I would say that from a driver standpoint, they have one of if not the best performing
drivers on the planet and you just don't hear a lot of people, right?
Everybody wants to try new Callaway and wants to try new TaylorMade and stuff like that.
You know, we're open to trying everything, but we always tell people, hey, I need you
to be open to trying something that's outside your comfort zone.
You might not think about it.
Because the number of times somebody comes in and says, oh, I want to get fit for this.
And they walk out of the store not even close to what they wanted to get fit for.
It happens seven and a half to eight out of ten times.
So how frustrating is it when you actually get somebody fitted into equipment that works
for them and they're like, no, it's got to be, I mean, that's got to be.
Yeah, you know, and I mean, I think that's you know, you have brand loyalists, you know,
I always tell people and I ask them, are you getting paid?
You know, that's what I ask them.
How much are you getting paid to play the equipment?
Right.
So if you're looking to improve, you know, one of the unique things that we have is we
do quite a bit of work with a lot of local mini tour players.
Okay.
You know, Mike Vasaki, we do a lot of his builds.
Austin Truslow, who's a great player.
I think he's actually in second stage of Q school this week.
He just played in the US Open this year at L.A. Country Club, you know, really good player.
So you know, we get a lot of those guys that are having us build stuff for them, check
specs and stuff.
So certain guys like that that are on staff with somebody and required to play, right?
Okay, well, we're going to fit you into what you know, you need from them.
But if you're not getting paid or you're not getting free stuff from somebody, right?
Forget about your name.
Yeah, 100 percent.
Right.
You know, if I could grind the name off the iron, what would it matter?
Exactly.
So, you know.
So the by the way, the gentleman that was given that seminar, his name was Ed Mitchell.
After after 45 minutes, I'm like, is that because I read the seminar thing.
I'm like, oh, that's that's the guy who invented the stupid thing.
You know, he probably knows what he's talking about.
So it was a good, good one to understand.
So you have a dynamic or you have a digital.
Yeah, we have a loft and line machine, a loft and line machine for irons and a digital loft
and line machine for putter.
So you know, I mean, you can get it down to a quarter of a degree from precision standpoint.
You know, and I mean, it's just they're great tools to have because, you know, you're able
to dial in and make sure one of the things we always tell people to do after we do a
club fitting and stuff like that is, you know, we always try to have players come back and
do what we call a gapping session.
So when originally you go through the fitting, we understand, OK, well, your seven iron needs
to be bent at this loft and this line goal to make sure impact is correct and to make
sure the launch and spin.
And then we're going to build the set of irons around that.
But the thing is, is even though you'll have a really good fit set for you, not everybody
delivers everything the same throughout the set.
So certain players might deliver a five iron a little different than they'll deliver an
eight iron.
So just because the manufacturer says, oh, well, the five iron needs to be 25 degrees
of loft and the eight iron needs to be, you know, thirty nine doesn't necessarily mean
that's true.
We're just going to try to make sure you come back and all of your gaps between your irons
are correct.
We could care less what the actual loft on the club is as long as it's doing what it's
supposed to.
So that's the other thing I think from a fitting standpoint is trying to have some sort of
post interaction with the fitting facility to make sure everything is, you know, gapped
out correctly and you don't have any huge, you know, oh, I hit my sand wedge 85 yards
and I hit my gap wedge 120.
OK, well, what do you hit 100?
I have no idea.
Right.
So we want to make sure that that's not a kind of a scenario.
And I think that's a pretty important point is making sure that their gaping is correct.
You know, I think a lot of people, a lot of players just want to hit it as far as they
can instead of having a consistent, you know, every 10 or 12 yards.
But it's they just want to max it out every time.
A lot of players don't know what their what their yardages are there, too.
Well, they all think it's 10 to 15 yards longer than what it actually is.
Right.
Just have no even me.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
So then the other question would be on the I'm going to go back to the grips that you're
talking about, because I know that there's difference in grip weight and that's an important
thing.
I'm going to use the putters as more of an example, because the super stroke is just,
you know, come on the market the last 10 years and just killed it.
Yeah, by far.
And then you get a guy who's missing putts.
Right.
And guess what?
He went from a standard golf pride, whatever, to a super stroke five point.
And he has no concept that that's 35 grams heavier or whatever.
And then that really changes the headway.
Yeah, size, you know, diameter and stuff like that.
You know, I will say the one thing that's probably surprised me the most from fitting
is not only from fitting, but actually learning and studying and seeing why people do what
they do is I would say that there's probably maybe 10% of players on the planet who actually
have a putter that's actually fit for them correctly.
Yeah.
And the majority of people out there do not realize that head shape has a massive influence
on how you aim a putter alignment lines, how the net goes into the head.
Most people, they walk into a store, they grab something they look like the look of,
and they hit it and they go, oh man, this is good.
It says Scotty Cameron on the bottom.
You know, and then they come into the shop and from seven feet, right, they're aiming
the putter eight inches right or left of the hole and they're wondering why their stroke
is awful and they can't make putts.
Well, because you can't hit a barn from a foot with the face, you know.
So I always tell people who are, you know, especially players that are really looking
to try to improve their score, get fit for a putter first, because if you can aim a putter
where you're looking, right, then it comes down to speed and can you read a green?
You know, that's the number one thing I would say and, you know, grip size will have an
effect on, you know, your speed control and your release pattern and your tendency, you
know.
The other thing that we see from, you know, manufacturers is very rarely do we get putters
in that have grips on straight.
Oh my God.
You know, I mean.
It's crazy.
And they come into us three months later.
I'm missing everything right.
Yeah.
Look at the grip.
Did you look at the grip?
No, the grip's fine.
Yeah.
No.
But the grip is in the city.
It's only degrees open.
That's how you came in from the manufacturer.
Yeah.
That doesn't mean that the guy at the manufacturing plant could have a bad day.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So, so I mean, definitely putter is a huge fitting aspect that we dive into.
A lot of people don't do it.
And I mean, I would honestly say if you're a player who's, you know, kind of looking
to improve your game, get fit for a putter before really anything else, and then see
what happens after that.
Literally the least fit club in the bag and you
Like VP said you just walk into a store and oh I like the look of it
I just bought one online two weeks ago because I was struggling putting in but I know what I like the look
I will say I know what I like the face of certain putters. Yeah, I mean I have a little better
I want I wanted an alignment line that I like certain things that I and you know that I've potted with a million different putters
I get guys all the time. I want to get fit for a driver. Well, what kind of handicap are you?
I'm a 10 handicap. Well, okay. Well, how are you hitting driver? Well, it's okay
But I'd like to pick up a little distance how many drivers around do you hit 12? How many putts around do you have?
Well, I have about 37. Yeah, well you think maybe we ought to improve
No question so
The other thing I was gonna say is that when I went into VP's place, this is when you first left
So probably sit would you say five years?
Okay, so it was probably four and a half years ago
But I went into his place the first time and and you didn't mention it so far
but the first thing that he does is he takes your set and
Figures out what your clubs are right at that point. I had I had three different clubs for hybrid
Five wood and three wood and they all said stiff on them from the manufacturer. I won't bring it up
Yeah, remember the four hybrid was a junior flex. It was frequencying out literally junior flex on the four hybrids. Wow. I hit it so good
Yeah, best club in the back
The five wood was like in between ladies and right and senior
Yeah, and then the three wood was in between senior or stiff and regular. Yeah Wow, but it's to the point is like again
They're not doing what you said, you know, they're not doing the specifications that you are
So I think we all have our place like you have your place with the clientele that you have which is great
And there's there's obviously a huge benefit that you can give them. But maybe I can't if maybe I can't afford the
Maserati, right? Maybe I can afford the Toyota Camry
That's when you come see the or when you come see me and T Mac and then if I want the
You know, whatever the tricycle or whatever the moped then you go then
You go then yeah, then you go down to a big box store pick it up go play
But yeah, you got to figure out who you are budget wise a little bit
Yeah, but also what you're trying to get out of the game. Yeah, you know an amazing thing nowadays is in general, you know
Use Google as a platform to try to get an idea of
positive feedback from
Facilities and stuff like that, you know
I mean, there's a lot of really good information out there about good fitters and there's some you know information
Out there about not so good fitters and stuff like that. So use that
In the area that you're in to try to figure out
Okay
There's a ton of good feedback about this fitter and then kind of what he does and this guy's nice
Doesn't have such good feedback. So, you know generally
If there's good feedback about a place then they care more about your game than actually you spending dollars in their store
And yeah, you know, that's the one thing I always tell people when they come into my shop is listen
You know, I'm a club fitter and a PGA professional first not a salesman
Yeah, so, you know, I can't tell you the number of times as a small business owner
It's it's weird to say this but you know the number of times
I've had somebody come into the shop and tell them they don't need to change, you know
What do you mean? I don't need to change this drivers three years old. Yeah, so what who cares? It's optimized for you
It doesn't you're not gonna hit anything. That's better. You want to buy something new cuz it's shiny and new
Yeah, go buy a new car. I don't know what to tell you, but don't change your golf clubs
Yeah
I read a post about that somebody came in for a club fitting and you told them that you don't need new clubs
What you need to work on is your attack angle
Yeah
And and I think that's very important for people when they come come to see is that it's just not a sales job
It's to get you better. Yeah, I think one of the things that you know, and again Sean
Klotzie has been a huge kind of
Mentor and Tim poles a huge mentor and one of things that they've instilled on me is as a PGA professional
Right code of ethics and stuff like that. Your number one goal is to improve a player
You figure out how to improve them that you know, the easiest way and a lot of times
You know you walk into a place and you're expecting to get fit and stuff like that
And if you get data on your stuff and it's pretty good and let's say you're hitting a driver
250 yards and some guy is able to say oh, well look you're hitting this
257 yards right and you know and now in the days we're in now
I don't know if seven yards is worth six hundred dollars basically across the board
So, you know be be open-minded to potentially also stick with what you have if it's performing
Well, you know and it's weird to maybe hear that from a small business owner
It's got a really fit stuff and sell stuff to stay open
But when you come into our shop, it's it's improvement first. We figure out how to improve you then
Yeah, I think that's the key point that you mentioned too. Like I I it's probably why I don't have a retail store anymore
Well, I did it for three years
But I probably talked my customers out of more sales because you are you do you do want to be honest with them?
That's our goal. You want to improve them and and a lot of times too. I was gonna get your opinion on this
They come in for a club fitting right now. You also specifically set up golf lessons, too. Is that correct? Yeah, correct
So I teach at my facility
We have another satellite facility that we have another gentleman that just got into the PGA program who teaches as well
Yeah, the second fitter that I have at my shop Blake does not teach. He's specifically a fitter
So so yeah, so when they come in for the fitting session is my point. I
Specifically tell them we're gonna do a fitting
Yeah, okay at the end of the deal
I might give you the two to three things that I want it want you to work on with your golf swing
Now there's certainly times when it goes the other way when you're like, okay. Look, here's the deal
You don't need new equipment yet. Yeah, you will in the very yeah, you will in the very near future
But you need to fix attack angle
Swing speed a B and C whatever that is. Yeah your rotation
Whatever before you get to that point and then come back and see me in six months and they will because you've built that loyalty
Well, yeah, and you know one of the things that we always do
that I kind of have made it kind of company policy with us is if somebody were to come in for a fitting and a
driver fitting and we know
Excuse me. We know at their clubhead speed
We need to be you know, two degrees up on attack and they're hitting three and a half four down
You talking about me? I was gonna say six or seven. Sorry. So, you know and you know, we're looking at it and
What they're playing with is pretty decent for how they're delivering the club
But you kind of can show them, you know
There's enough information on the internet now where you can actually pull up a chart really quick and say hey look
At your clubhead speed in two degrees up with this launch in this spin
This is how far you should be hitting it and they go shit. I don't hit it anywhere near that. Yeah
Yeah, so, you know having the information to be able to give to them
So, you know what I would generally do in that situation is I would say hey listen
We're gonna charge you a fitting fee when you come back after you work on swing
I don't care if it's one time two times three times for now, whatever it is. We're gonna keep get capturing data
There's no additional charge for the fitting service, right?
So, you know, we're giving customers information and then we're allowing them to do with with what they want with that information
So, yeah knowledge is power. Yeah, exactly
You gotta have the yeah, you gotta have the data. So, yeah, this has been great VP and yeah team act
It's been cool to yeah, I'm looking forward to coming in a few more times and you know diving into the past
And you know talking about swing lessons after Wednesday nightly right on the back of the porch good times
You know absolutely the the same number. I've had the same lesson with VP for the past
Seven years or whatever. We had the same golf swing lesson every time and if I go see him again
It's gonna be the same thing. Well, at least he's consistent. I mean, I'm consistent
I'm consistent, but it does fit, you know, it does again. You have to go practice it
Yeah, and it does kind of factor in and it definitely become a better driver of the ball based on his information
Just understanding. Yeah, he was talking about swing or attack angle and and
Low point again seven years ago before we even had yeah, you know
We were completely understood all the ball flight laws
While we're kind of just trying to figure out how to swing well
You know, he'd be putting a head cover in front of my golf ball making a swing up on it and not you know
I still love the time when you put the loom the the lead tape on the his handle
Go there and shoot whatever was 68 or 71 or something. I'm killing it like VP. This is unbelievable. The irons are going straight
He goes, oh, that's good. We had a nice little snicker on now when I tell you you told me three weeks later
I'm like, oh well that makes sense
It was but that and actually at that time like Sergio they had made a big deal about how Sergio had basically counterbalance
Nicholas is you know one that's kind of always you can look back at articles and say
Look at it and he's always been somebody that's kind of messed around with counterbalance and you know stuff like that
So there's a lot of different things people don't know about you know
What certain guys can you know kind of manipulate to help with some golf swing stuff?
So yeah, it's it's it's very exciting times to be in the golf industry right now
I'll tell you a lot of technology in it. It's great. It's great. So once again, we'd like to thank you
I'm your co-host Tim McElveen here at
swing theory golf comm
And my fellow co-host Sean Klotz. Yep from one-stop golf club Sean
Please tell us where they can get a hold of you like how that was the best place to get it
Yeah, so, you know the shop is pure science golf. We're located in Clearwater, Florida
Kind of near the Feather Sound area and then we have another satellite location
At the Chi Chi drive-in range that's a little bit north of us
Honestly, we've just actually started doing online booking. So literally you can go right to pure science golf comm
You can schedule anything right there online. You can give us a call shop number 727-317-3510
You know, somebody will always answer the phone, you know, if you need anything look us up
We'd be happy to have you come in kind of diagnose what you got going on and help you out. Great man
See you on Instagram too, right? Yeah, we are on Instagram. Yep, pure science golf
We're trying to get a little bit more into that trying to do some of the you know, kind of nutty kind of social media stuff
I'm not a huge camera fan guy, but they make me do it apparently
You're doing good. We've seen it. We've seen it good good. Well, once again, thank you so much and have a great day
All right guys, we'll see you next time
Hey golfers, this is Sean from one-stop golf club of Wesley Chapel
I want to let you guys know about our private golf club featuring track man
Which gives you unlimited data video analysis and practice abilities to improve your game
This is a one-of-a-kind practice facility in which you book your own tee times walk in with your own personal code and use
Track man to improve your game
We offer monthly membership starting at $60 for 24 hours a day seven days a week access and the use of track man
Think of it as your own private man cave or woman cave
Enjoy a 65 inch TV with all the sports stations available so you can watch a game while improving your own golf game
We also offer private golf instruction club fittings and putter fittings as well for more information check out our website
www.one-stop-golf-shop.com