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All right, so welcome back everybody. Welcome to Dynamic Golf.
I'm your co-host Tim McAvanna, owner and operator of Swing Theory Golf.com,
and with me is my co-host Sean Klotz. Hey, Tim Mc, how you doing bud?
Doing good, doing good. Yep. So today we're just going to kind of rift, okay?
We're just going to kind of let it go, kind of whatever kind of comes to the mind,
and kind of go with that. We were kind of talking a little bit here on the back porch,
a little bit about some of the people that have inspired us or taught us that, you know,
didn't make it to the tour, didn't make it all the way, and some very talented people.
I think you've got a very interesting story about your golf coach.
Yeah, so. University of Tampa.
His name is Jeff Leonard, and I was at UT for four years, and I had three different golf coaches in
four years. Okay.
So that's probably a podcast right there in itself, in the fact that, you know, you got to get some
of these younger kids coming up through college or high school, juniors, like you got to find a
coach, and then you got to kind of stick with the coach probably, but if it's not working, it's okay
to move and find a different one. When you get to a school, like a college atmosphere, you don't
have a choice unless you're NIL now or transfer portal, which I'm not sure. I'm sure that's
affecting the NCAA for golf just as much as it's affecting NFL and stuff like that.
Absolutely. I'm sure those kids want to get paid too.
Yeah. So the point of the story would be that, so Jeff Leonard was my coach my freshman year,
and I knew his resume, right? So my brother was five years older than me. He went to
University of Tampa. That's how a kid from North of Boston ends up in Tampa, as we found out.
And UT was a great Division II golf school back in 86 and 87, 88.
Had a pretty good football program too as well.
Prior to that, yep, yep, yep. Now you're really dating me. I wasn't there during that time.
That was like the Ed Nizmintowski and I think it's his name, Solomon. Freddie Solomon might
have played there. I can't remember. I'm pretty sure. But yeah, that's back in the 70s.
So UT, a little small Division II school with all these powerhouses, University of Florida,
USF was good back at that time. They still are. FSU, Miami. If you're from Massachusetts,
you're not going to go to Salem State, which is a little small community college in Massachusetts
to play golf. There's good golf up in Massachusetts, but then when you come down here, you realize
they're all good. Well, they've got the whole season to work on it where you guys only get what,
six months out of the year and then it's snowball. Yep, if you're lucky. So that's what I realized
was coming from up there, Big Fish, Little Pond, we'll call it, and then you come down here and
you realize, oh my gosh, they're all good. Another good freshman year story, trying out for the team.
I shot 76 one day and I shot 74 one day and I got beat by 10 shots on both occasions to two different
players. It shows the competitiveness and how good the golfers are in the world. How high the talent
is. That was then. And you didn't have all the new technology like they have now. I mean,
these kids are just accelerating at an unbelievable rate. Yep. And, you know, like back then, but I
mean, you know, you'd hit it 280, 300. That was a long drive, right? You know, now it's 340, 360.
That's what the technologies didn't really change. So Jeff was my coach my freshman year. And I knew,
like I said, I knew his resume. He went to, and we're going to get him on our podcast here.
Okay, great. I think that'd be great to have him tell his story. He's one of the most humble
people that you're ever going to meet. And that's the thing that I, one of the things I really enjoy
about Jeff, like you would never know. He's literally white men can't jump Woody Harrelson,
you know, like the guy that you just wouldn't think is so unassuming. Yeah, absolutely. So he
he went to university tip on a baseball scholarship from Indiana is where he grew up. And again,
kind of big fish little pond up there, like he was a really good baseball player. UT has,
you know, last 30 years has had a great baseball program. Back in 85. It wasn't that yet. You know,
what, what coach Prado and some of the, some of the, there's been a lot of good players coming
through university Tampa, Sam Militello played for the Yankees. Tino Gonzalez was a, was a player
in the Tampa area, but he didn't go to university Tampa. So there's a lot of good baseball. Anyways,
you have Freddie McGriff to Freddie McGriff. Yeah. A lot of good talent, Gary, Gary,
coke. No, not Gary. Coke. That's a good one. I'll come back to that one and think of it. But so
Jeff, like I said, went to university, Tampa baseball scholarship.
He broke a, I think shoulder or something happened to him that freshman year. So he
decides to pick golf back up. Okay. Cause he played in high school, but it was baseball and golf kind
of two different seasons. So how many years is he kind of the clubs away about two, three years?
Yeah. Yeah. Cause he had focused on baseball, right? So he picks golf up. And then the short
story is that by his junior year, he wins the individual national championship for division two
golf and university Tampa also as a team wins division two national championship for golf.
They found this little collection of players. There was about six of them from all over the
country. One of my good friends is from Massachusetts, PBD Massachusetts, which is
where I'm from my brother's age. His name was Scott Johnson. He was the number three player.
Okay. Mike Lawler was a really good player. Still got, he plays at Buckhorn. Okay. Still
around the area. Still around. Glenn Zito was the general manager at Avila for many years. I've
heard of that name. Yeah. So there's like this just little collection of golfers who all kind of came
together at university Tampa at the same time. And they ended up winning the national championship in
86 and 87, I believe. Chuck Winship was the coach actually. And so Jeff, again, just kind of like,
we were just talking, you know, one of his claims to fame. And again, he wouldn't even tell the
story. He's playing in like a Hooters tour of it or some type of qualifier at world woods. Okay.
World woods is a different even entity. They got it. Yeah. They're going to reopen. And I heard
last week that it's going to be $500 a round at Cabot farms. Wow. Yep. They got 36 holes out there.
Very proud of that course. Yeah. They've got like a 12 hole kind of like a fun, almost like the pine
hearst has this type of golf course. It's like a short course where you can play it quickly.
I've heard Gil Hansen has been doing some of those in the northeast area. So that's interesting.
They're bringing that down here now. Yep. So they sold these like stay and plays,
almost like condos out there at Cabot farms. Oh, they built some condos. They did. Yep. Yep. So
they redesigned the golf courses. I know we're off topic, but that's why we did this. That's fine.
We're rifting. That's what we talked about. We said we were just going to kind of go off topic.
So, but the cool thing about that 12 hole course, which I always have enjoyed this idea of doing,
they've got speakers all around the, all around the 12 holes. That's cool. It's just, it's just
top golf on steroids in a real golf world. I think top golf, that concept has really opened the eyes
to some of these old conservative golf, you know, ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny that you
talk about the top golf. I went and I'd say probably about a decade ago, I went to the first
one that's up in Virginia. Okay. And what a mind blowing experience for, for somebody you're up
there and you're like, wait a minute, you have speakers and you have these balls with microchips
in them and you have lighted fields. You know, it was so, so unique that I had to go check it out
with my buddy Pat. And I'll tell you what, ever since then, I think it's, it's mushroomed up. It's
just absolutely blown up the concept, the idea, the idea of having fun on the golf course, not
being so rigid and so down to one thing. It's now a lot more open, a lot more younger people getting
out there. And I, I, you know, admit that to one social media and two, you know, things like top
golf and stuff like that, getting the younger, younger generation out there. Absolutely. So
think about your high school days, college days, like we were never allowed to have a speaker
on the golf cart with us, right? Or, or, or for carrying our bag, we weren't allowed to have,
like I listened to a lot of music and during my practice time, high school, college, but it will
always be headphones. Yeah. Earbuds. Quiet. Yeah. Off the side, you know, but never now me and you
play in our Wednesday night league out here at Silverado on, on Wednesday night, we've got 40
guys. Every single one of them has got a speaker. Oh, it's a different channel. I mean, you can be
listening to Jimmy, but you can be listening to house music on the other. It's amazing. I welcome
it. You know, I just love the idea that everybody's out there having fun. I think some people take it
way too serious and think that everything's got to be the U S open. And remember it's going to be
four hours of your time out there. So enjoy it and enjoy it with some music and some friends and a
good time. And I think, you know, even kind of why we decided to do this, this idea was, uh,
exposing different people to the game of golf, you know, different skill levels. Um, yeah, let's not
make it so funny, Debbie. Let's not make it where, let's face it. It was a white man's sport until
1993, four, when tiger came out. Yeah. Somebody cracked that open real big. Tiger was, yeah.
I mean, it, it, it has changed dramatically in 30 years. Um, and, you know, I mean, there's some of
his predecessors, uh, Charlie Elder and, uh, Jim Dent back in Rogers park days. I mean, there's been
some guys who've tried to set, you know, um, Corey payment, um, Charlie Siffer, Charlie Siffer. Yeah.
Big one right there. Calvin Pete. That's Calvin. Yeah. But I mean, that's like four guys. We just
talked about it. We might be omitting some people in that, a lot of them, but in like 40 years,
now you come to tiger in 1993. Now you see some more players, whether it's of African American
descent is just ethnic, different all over the world. Absolutely. There's Asians getting involved.
There's, you know, they're dominating, you know, Latinos getting involved. Uh, you know, it's just
great to see that you're starting to see so much diversity and array of color out there on the tour
now where a lot of, you know, kids, a lot of kids, um, you know, lower economic standing are able to
get that chance now and get out and play golf. And you're really starting to see a lot of, a lot of
good talent that I don't think you got to see, you know, back in the seventies and eighties. Now
you're starting to see a lot of good talent, a lot of talent that went to baseball or football or,
or another sport. Now it's being driven a little bit more towards golf. And I'm telling you,
I think it's a really exciting time for the game of golf right now. It's growing very well.
It's opened up so many different, I mean, the, the country clubs there, there are still Jewish
only country clubs. There are still men only country clubs. It's, we can't change the world,
but it's just, it's good to see that there's this, you know, diversity now coming to the game of
golf. And that's, I mean, you're starting to see the walls come down a little bit. You know, I
think there's, I think there's a few still over in England that are all men that don't want to get
on there, but if they don't want to get on the road, you know, for the U S open, they've got to
open it up. So I love how, you know, these corporations and things are holding accountable
and getting them to be more diverse and open up the door. I just talked to one of our local
business guys, Mike Prenderville, you know, in Zephyrhills Dade city. He played a golf course
in Virginia two weeks ago, men only 300 to 300 members period men only. So it's not just, you
know, there's still still some of that stuff right over here in the new country as well.
Yep. So, um, going back to my Jeff Leonard story. So, so he's over at world woods again,
I can't remember the type of event when I get him on, when we get him on, we'll talk to him.
Cause again, he won't even tell the story cause he would be just like, no,
no, he was playing a Hooters tour event or, or like a, um, qualifier for some moonlight
tour was like the lower echelon Hooters Nike was kind of the one before the tour. Yeah. You know,
like the, uh, minor leagues, if you want to call it. Um, Jeff also had his card. He had his PGA
card for three years. Really? Yeah. And he kept like having to go back and re get it, you know,
cause he just couldn't, which is another different conversation, but he just couldn't, once he got
onto the tour, it's so hard to maintain it as a rookie. I'm sure. Yep. So anyways, Jeff goes out,
makes par on the first hole and birdies the next 11 holes shoots 61. Holy cow. Holy cow.
What's your longest streak? Three or four, maybe I had five.
That's my longest. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. I'm going to say about the same, maybe four. Yeah.
But to birdie 11 in a row, that's when you know that you're a different, different level of player.
Absolutely. Right. You're in the zone. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and, and just a very random kind
of conversation, but I mean, he's got so many different, you know, accolades to his resume
as far as I know he's been section player of the year multiple times. Um, just, and you know what,
again, very humble, uh, when you go to him for a golf lesson, you don't, you kind of think he's
talking almost a little different language because he's got so much knowledge. Gotcha. The things
that we've talked about this before, the things that make that are obvious to you and me that are
not obvious to the young lady that I just taught 45 minutes ago, who's a brand new golfer as far
as how to hold the club. Those things are obvious to Jeff. And for me even been teaching for 25
years and like, why didn't I think about that instead of all the things that we go down the
road of, you know, trying to think of. So, um, yeah, it's, uh, he's just a, just a good guy and
good family man. Um, great teacher, very simple. Like I said, he's, he's taught a lot of different
places. He was at Cheval for a little bit. He was at, um, Fox hollow. Um, I'm sure I'm missing,
missing some golf courses there too, but, um, it was just a, as you meet people, you know, again,
as we, we have lucky enough to meet people in this West central chapter, there's a lot of good
talent in our, in our area. A lot of good talent, a lot of good talent. And there's a, you know,
cause we've got the Orlando area in our area. And that's just a hub for a lot of good talent
right there. Your buddy Keith is player of the year. Player of the year. He plays with, uh,
Keith Colzer, right? Yeah. He plays with people like Paul A. Zinger and Gary Cove and some of the
old tour. And the funny thing is about that is, um, you know, these guys have won on tour, one's
actually a major winner. Um, and it's funny at the end of the day, they're actually, Keith has to
give them strokes. So that's, that's, that's the funny thing. So you can see that the level of
talent in this area, you know, the West central chapter and the PGA chapter here, it's just
loaded with talent. Yeah. So I got two things to say about that. So, so Keith is, um, Keith has
been a great player for, in our chapter for over 25 years, cause I think he just won the,
he might've won the, he won the PGA section, um, player of the year, but I'm pretty sure he just
won the senior PGA section player there. Cause I think he's like 53, 54 ish. I think he's in his
sixties. Is he really? I believe he's 61, something like that. Yeah. He, it's amazing. And if you get
to watch him hit a ball, it's absolutely amazing. It's dead on flush every time. Yeah. Yeah. So, um,
the, the thing about, so when we play, um, I don't know if you played in these, but the, the
chapter championship over at old Memorial, have you played in those? No. No. Yeah. So I always
sign up for that one. Cause it's old Memorial Memorial. Yeah. Pay $150, play two rounds out
there. Great, great facility. Arguably one of my favorites I've ever played. One of the nicest
courses you get in the Bay area. Yeah. And maybe the world. Yeah. But, um, anyways, they always
tell me to park my van, like in the employee parking lot, right? Cause they've got the rolls,
they've got the Mercedes, the Maseratis, they're all up front. There's an image. You know, Hey,
Mr. Klotz, can you park your little Mazda CX-7? Behind the factory. Yeah, please. Exactly.
Exactly. But, um, so Gary Koch is a PGA member in our section. Wonderful guy too. Plays in the
event and wins both divisions. Wow. Just coming up, he's doing announcing for six months out of the
year. Comes off the event, plays his forward tee cause he's 60 or past 60, whatever he is. So you
know, you're giving them the tee box just like we would if we were playing. He's probably hitting
the same link that we are. Once we get that. It's just amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So it's,
it's, it is neat to be able to see in a, like, like you just said, I've seen Keith and him kind
of be on the leaderboard together and, and the ones I've seen Gary put, you know, edges them out,
but I'm sure there's been plenty where. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. But those, those guys are,
you know, and I guess that the big thing is that as we talk about Gary Koch made it, but,
you know, we see guys like Jeff Leonard and Sean Klotter and, you know, Keith Colzer and Tim Pulse
for another name. These guys are so talented. I mean, it's amazing. You know, we see the talent
that they have that, you know, they didn't make it on the tour or, you know, for whatever reason,
one way or another, but it's just amazing that when you see the level of talent on the tour
or what it takes to get there and, and it's not just talent. There's a little luck that goes in
it too. You know, you win a tournament and you're off and running, right? Or, you know, on the other
hand, you miss a putt and you don't win that tournament, you get second place and you don't
get those exemptions and it's a whole different world for it. Yeah. It's, and you've had this too,
when you've been in your zone, like you get psychologically, like you're so positive about
yourself. You see, you feel like you're going to make every putt, the hole looks big, looks huge,
the fairway looks small because you, cause it, cause you know, you're going to hit the middle of
it. It doesn't look big, you know, it's like all those things happen. And Victor Hovland, I just
saw this morning that he's second in some tour event or wherever they're at this week or whatever.
I think it was over in Europe, but I mean, how good of a year did he, how did he finish with?
Absolutely. And that was a direct indicator. You can see the last six weeks of,
of the PGA tour season last year. I mean, just killed it. Yeah. Went, got a putting lesson or a
couple of putting lessons and that really changed. And short game too. He said to his chipping is
really what changed. Cause stats were terrible for the short game. And then he, you know, and it's
funny with the technology now, how to isolate those things. And again, like what, this is even how
we started our conversation today, Victor Hovland, number top, whatever he is top one, top three
player in the world. Guess what he's doing? He's going to get a lesson. Yeah. Right. He's going to
work on his game. Right. Yeah. We can't get people to come see us because they're think that we're
going to screw them up. Absolutely. My swing just clicked in. I don't need a lesson. Sure. But you're
hitting a hundred and two, but yeah, I watch YouTube. I'm good. Yeah. What does that do? Yeah. I mean,
sorry, we're on YouTube now, but still, but you know, there are certain things. There's a reason
why to have an instructor. And there's a reason why even the great players fall back onto those
instructors. And it's not, you know, I wouldn't say those instructors are giving any, you know,
life-changing advice or anything like that, but it's just the small little details that they're
able to notice that make a huge difference for those guys. You know, it could be just as some
simple as, you know, the grip of the putter, the tempo of the putter, you know, just your,
your aspect of how you're looking at a shot. And it just completely opens up a whole new door and
changes the way that they're going to play. And then your confidence goes up and then watch out
folks. Yeah. Once you've got the confidence of it's, it's free range and it can go the other way too.
Yeah, absolutely. So what I do then is I change putters. I just go buy a new putter. Like Arnold
Palmer has 300 putters in his trunk. That's one of the things I was talking about, but just to
finish up on that in the past 24 hours, I've had three brand new women golfers and just two yesterday,
one today, all over 60. Never, never touched a club before. All right. The thing that I tell people,
and I really think that, that we both do this well, but when you come to us for golf lessons,
the point of it is to give you a plan. Yeah. So you don't go to the range very randomly
with no idea what you're working on. A blueprint. Right? Yeah. Like that. It could only be,
we mean, you've talked about this before too. Like to me, my golf lessons should be 10 to 15
minutes long because I can give you what you need to do. The two to three things in those 10 to 15
minutes. But the other 45 minutes that we heard there for them is typically their life coach.
Yeah. Correct. I mean, it's not bad. It's just kind of talking about it. That's kind of the way it.
You know, I think people just don't understand that. I think when they come to you, to you,
they think that the swing is just so bad that it's going to take the whole hour to get it fixed.
And it's really not. It's small adjustments that you have to make. And, you know, as you said,
about 10, 15 minutes into the lesson, you've got it solved. Right? Then it's just basically
hammering those, those things into place and then building on top of that. Right? You know,
it might not be the end all lesson for you, but you know, you've got to do it in stages. You know,
do those small steps and then keep building towards it. And then you're going to start
seeing results. But you're right. I mean, after about 10, 15 minutes, we've diagnosed what it is.
We've told you what we need to do. And to be honest with you, there's probably maybe six or
seven things we need to fix, but we can't fix them all in one day. Right? So try to isolate one or
two of those, those things, and then just work on them. And you've got to go out and work on them
for about a month or three weeks or five weeks. It's just not one of those things like, oh,
I've worked on it for 30 minutes. I've got it. Right. No, mine doesn't work that way. What are
you working on right now? You said you were doing something with your kind of your center, your body
type of thing. Yeah. So right now what I'm kind of working on is trying to keep my left elbow
a little bit more tucked into my side. So when I rotate through, I don't feel like my arms are
kind of flopping away at the top. Yep. It's kind of a concept that Ben Hogan talked about,
about the left pocket of the elbow kind of turning around. Okay. I kind of feel like when I do that
correctly, at least the feel for me is I feel like that left elbow kind of, or that left pocket kind
of slingshots the ball off the club face. And I can really feel that club face, you know, really
grabbing that ball and going. Yep. But when my arms start getting a little bit away, it starts
getting a little disconnected. Yeah. So do you like, and I've heard all these different things,
tried some too, like, do you like the towel drill? Do you like the belt? Do you have like a,
I've heard like even like a range basket or something you could? Yeah. So I use like a
range basket. I'll put a range basket in the center. You put the center, the big part here.
Correct. Coming out this way and then you're holding it in between your forearms. Correct.
Okay. Correct. And really all I'm trying to do is make a half swing or a three quarter swing. I'm
just trying to get that connection. You can use a towel, but I find that you can kind of cheat with
the towel a little bit. I find that when you put the basket in the center of your chest and you
hold it with your two arms, that if you're, if you're over rotating, the basket pops out. So it
gives you some negative feedback that you're going to absolutely notice right away. That ball is a
training ball that is sold, right? That kind of hangs from your neck. I think you've had one before.
Impact ball or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of does the same thing. Just part of it is,
is the whole, you know, setup procedure. Like we talk a lot, we talk a lot about a lot of things,
but I mean the reason why the grip, the position of your left arm, the right arm, like the reason
why that's important at the beginning is because you're trying to maintain essentially that space
between your elbows. You don't want it to look like that on your backswing. And what you just
talked about is on the way through, you don't want it to look like that. You want it to be
essentially the same space as they were at the beginning. Correct. So that set up that I've tried
before, I always felt kind of like you do. I always felt like the towel or the belt made me
too restricted. Yeah. You know, now I'm going to like punch you like this with no extension where
I need to have my arms extended to produce the power. Correct. Yep. So I like the head cover idea
underneath the, to me it's the right armpit. Okay. And then again, this is a good one to see. You put
the head cover squarely underneath your right armpit and you're essentially pinching your right elbow,
you know, your right arm to your, to your body. Rory does this one. He talks about this one. So,
you know, again, for our visual people and our, also our listeners online, the idea is that the
head cover stays in your backswing on the back, on the top of your backswing, but it absolutely
should be released or come out in front of the ball, past the ball. Oh, you know, yeah. Cause you,
when you, when you make your release and your arm comes out, you want that feeling of the head cover
going out past the golf ball. Okay. Yeah. You don't want it. Cause if you held it, then you would
almost have those alligator arms. And swing so far to the left. Right. Yeah. And you wouldn't,
you'd lose your extension. Gotcha. So it's, it's a good one, but yeah, that's, you know, we, a couple
weeks ago, we talked about me working on my grip. Yeah. How's that going right now? You know, when
you first did it, it was kind of a foreign concept. So how has it kind of been after what? Two, three
weeks. Yeah. I'd say that I'm probably 20% there. Okay. First of all, lack of practice time. Don't
do it enough. Fair enough. So when I played, I've tried to implement it and I do like all the other
listeners to us, I do it for three or four holes. I decide that, eh, it doesn't feel great. I'm not
getting the results. Let me go back to my old way. Gotcha. You know, so I don't have it in there yet.
It's not second nature by any means. So, but I definitely, what I've found from it so far is,
and I, is that the idea of the pressure, the, the, the one to 10, you know, 10 being death grip,
one being just very loose, a goosey is that as you do increase your club head speed, so you move from
your pitching wedge to your six iron, you, you know, you should essentially hold the club a little
bit tighter because the implement, the club head is moving faster. Correct. Right. So my grip pressure
currently, the way that I'm kind of dealing with it until I can figure it, until I can really
get comfortable with moving my left hand more to the right on top of the golf club. That is a foreign
feeling. Yeah. Especially for somebody who's been doing it weak with a weak grip for 30 years. Yeah.
So that idea of, of moving that grip, which is the permanent change, that's the long-term permanent
change, but I, again, I just don't feel comfortable with it yet. So, to me, just increase the grip
pressure when I'm playing in these little charity tournaments right now or whatever it is, that feels,
um, I can feel the club head being so much more solid at impact. Okay. That's, it's not flop,
flopping at impact. Gotcha. You know, it, I can, I can understand that, oh, this is what he was
trying to tell me. And again, I have students like this, you do too, where during those 30 minutes,
during that hour of lesson teaching, you may not get it, right? It might take you that aha moment.
Absolutely. Probably a month away. Yeah. But we want our 75 hours right now from you because
we want results. Yeah. We want, we're giving the information right now and you're getting the
information, but yeah, it may not work because you haven't done the work for it. Right. I kind
of resulted back to like math class, right? If you're taught a new concept, let's just say algebra
or geometry, you're not going to get it in the first period, right? You're not going to know it.
It takes taking that homework home, repeating it, repeating it, repeating it to really get the
concepts down. And that's, you know, that's, that's what it's about is, is, you know, having fun with
the process of practice, you know, make sure that you're enjoying the process and the practice of
it. And that's what you've got to do, you know, and that's what, where the results are going to
start coming from. It's a great analogy you just made too, that the whole math class or, or, because
you know, our kids, your kids are younger, but you'll find this out in a couple of years, like
the way that they teach math now versus the way that we were taught math, totally different,
right? And so, so mean, you can get to the answer of what the teacher is going to be asking your
child in three years when you fit in the youngest child or your oldest daughter is four, four in
18 months. So yeah, you still got a little bit of time, but once they get to that point of that
schooling, right, where they're there, you know, the answer, you can get to the answer, but you're
not going to get to the answer the way that the teacher wants you and the new math wants you to
get there. So point being for golf, like you've got to take the information and then you've got to go
work out it on the range or just do it in the backyard or just make swings indoors. And then
again, progress to, okay, now I'm going to go do it in the four player scramble tomorrow morning
when it doesn't really matter. I can kind of mess up. It doesn't really matter because the four
players scramble. And then I'm going to bring it to the Wednesday night golf league where now it's
two players, me and my partner versus you and your partner playing for a little bit of money.
Still a little cover still. Yeah. Still got to still kind of fun. Then when can I bring it to
the section championship for the North Florida section where I'm on, you know, number,
trying to think of a memorial number one, two, three, I think it's four is a par three,
pretty challenging hole about one 90 got water on the left bunker on the right.
Do I feel comfortable with that grip pressure grip change to be able to implement it under those
conditions? Yeah. You know, that's when you know, you've got it. Yeah. And that's what Hovland talks
about. Like in all these guys, like they don't have it yet. It takes those 10,000 hours. Yeah.
You're 10 years, 10,000 hours. That number of golf balls to get in there. And I mean, Tiger,
Tiger when he was young, that's all he did. Yeah, I had a really good friend. So when I was the
head pro at Green Valley Country Club in Claremont, so we were the East Central
chapter, which was Orlando and kind of that ballpark. So the section championship there was at
Isleworth. Oh, wow. Which again, sign it up for that one. Absolutely. 150 dollars all day long.
And, you know, Tiger was there. This is back in 2000, 2008, basically, 2004 to 2008 was when I
was in Claremont. So Tiger was living in Isleworth at this time. Okay. So you would talk to the staff
at Isleworth and basically his not request, not demand, but essentially it was a demand, we'll
call it every morning. They brought out a five gallon bucket of golf balls and put it on the
range. And his house was located not, not, I mean, for a reason, his house was located 15 steps from
range. Like he could have bought anywhere in Isleworth. But he wanted 15 steps away from the range.
He wanted to be able to walk out that door, go 15 steps to the range, his area, you know, left side
of the range. And he hit balls for six, seven hours. Wow. And then he would go chip and putt,
go work out, come back, chip and putt that night, go home next day, doing the same thing. Yeah. His
workout routine was absolutely amazing. Right. If you ever saw it. Yeah. Maybe he snows that.
He would run. I mean, it's amazing. I think Justin Thomas asked him, you know, what was your routine
and he repeated it to him. And you could just see Justin Thomas like, I can't do that. No. You know,
there's no way. And he's, he's in his twenties. Yeah. But, you know, I think you make a really
good point there, Sean, is that we're, we're taking these things to the highest level that we can,
which is all chapter championship. And now you start talking about guys, when you start talking
about pressure being under a major, I mean, think about how many hours and times that they spent to
get that field and to, to work on that, to make sure that they can have the confidence to pull that
shot under whatever pressure circumstance that is. Yeah. You know, I think that's, that's, that's a
real testament of how good they are. And you see it with the girls, you see it with the, you know,
the seniors, it's funny, the senior, you watch a senior tour event, they still do it. Like Bernard
Langer is ridiculous at 64 years old. I don't think he's human. I think he's the Terminator.
I don't think, I mean, you could do his workout routine right now. Absolutely not. I saw it on
YouTube or Facebook and he's over there punching and stuff like this. There's absolutely no way.
I'd be dead after 30 seconds. Yeah. But, but, but that, that point of like the PGA tour player,
the LPGA tour player, even, I mean, obviously a lot of these college kids or whatever, part of what
they're learning is the pre-shot routine. Yeah. Right. And we've talked about this before, and I
don't care if we talked about this every episode, but the pre-shot routine, the visualization of a
golf shot. And again, this happens to you and me, even at our level. Absolutely. Right. Like
when you play, I've happened to be playing a lot of four player scrambles or two player scrambles
throughout the summer and you play with, let's face it, you play with players that aren't as
good skill level lives. It doesn't mean we're arrogant just the way it is. We are not worried
on hole number four at Lake Bernadette. Okay. Far five. If we're a hundred yards away, we are not
concerned about hitting it in the water. Nope. That's not in our, in our deal. No. Our deal is,
okay, we've got a hundred yard shot to a green. That's kind of narrowed front to back. We know
we got to hit it high because it's a, it's a pretty hard green, right? Our thought process is so
different than the 15 handicap or 20 handicapper, 30 handicapper, cause they are literally worried
about making contact, getting it over the water, not hitting in the water. They, they, they like
the one, the one of getting it close to the pin is like number five on the list. It's way down on
the list, but I mean the biggest one is just that water. I've got to get it over the water, you know,
and then the second one comes, how am I going to hit this? What kind of contact am I going to get?
And most of the time after that thought process is gone, they're running a million miles an hour.
They hit this ball over the green and go. So what's your a hundred yard club? Well, not club,
but what's your a hundred yard shot? You can give me maybe, maybe you have two different clubs, but
so for me, it would be basically a three quarter pitching wedge or basically a stock 52. Okay.
Depending on when conditions and stuff like that. I think it's good to have at least one or two
different shots for yardage. Yeah. I think that helps you. So when I play with players, I ask them,
Hey, what do you hit from a hundred yards? They're like, ah, sometimes it's this club. Sometimes
it's like, they don't know their yardages. Yeah. And you and I, and like, again, as you get better
at skill level, we are within two to three yards of our, like you said, our stock, your stock club
is a hundred yards, no wind. You feel good hitting 52. And I'm sure there's a few listeners out there
going, what stock? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's your normal basic, cause you should be
able to either add or detract from that stock yardage. So like you said, Hey, maybe, maybe
pitching wedge feels a little bit better because condition wise, maybe I just want to make sure I
do get over. Let's face it. Or, you know, the lie. I mean, we could have a little bit of a thin dodgy
lie where, you know, having a little bit more of a controlled three quarter shot is going to work.
If I have a fluffy up lie, then I'm probably going to be able to take a full swing and get under it.
So, you know, I think, you know, when you talk about that, especially with beginners, you've
got to kind of look at the lie and see what's it giving. Yeah. Right. Just don't say I'm going to
hit this cause that's what I always hit. Right. Yeah. I always needed that, you know, let the lie
dictate. It might be, you know, you may need to take an eight iron and really hit like a half shot,
whatever it may be. Right. Don't get stuck with, I've got the number at the bottom. My buddy hit a
nine iron. I can hit the nine iron. Yeah. Yeah. Don't get lost in the number at the bottom of the club.
Get lost in the number. That's going to be on the scoreboard. Go with me on this for a second. So
the handicap of a player is essentially, what is that number? Basically they, let's say that I'm a
six handicap and I'm par 72. How many times am I going to shoot 78 on that golf course? It's going
to be your best best 25% of the time. Like, all right. The other 75, you're going to shoot worse.
It's not your, it's not what you average. It is a trend towards what your best scores typically
are. It's your potential, right? It's your peak potential of what you could shoot. It's not your
average, which I think people say, well, he, you know, he's a six handicap and he shot a 74.
Well, he shot under his potential. Good for him. Um, but the day before he could have shot 82.
Correct. 92. So he had a good day, whatever we want to call it. You know, lucky day, good day,
whatever it may be. Those players always seem like they play against you and I when they're playing
or me and Crump or whatever you and I have an all star day. Oh my gosh. I can't believe we're
playing so good. Well, again, if you play with players that are better than you, you typically
focus a little more. That's the way I always kind of go with that. So I always take it as a compliment.
My friend Crump does not take it as a compliment. No, no, but I love it. I love being the little guy.
Um, you know, he, he really gets up to the match. You know, he does, you can see it in his face.
Um, and you can see, you know, you gotta kind of walk away and you shake the man's hand, but you
can see the joy in his hand that I'd be a pro. Exactly. Exactly. Doesn't matter if we passed that
test 10 years ago. It does not matter, but they enjoy that. So here's where I was going with the
handicap question was now you're playing with, with somebody in a scramble, right? And then
lady men doesn't matter. Okay. You're a hundred yards away and they come up and I'm like, Hey,
what club you're hitting? They go, well, this club always goes a hundred. Nope. No, it doesn't.
On your best day, when you hit the top 10% of your golf shots with no wind condition, no live being
like all those factors that you're bringing in, that's when the club just because you hit it a
hundred yards seven weeks ago, Tomahawk 200 yards. Yeah. That's, that's where I say, that's,
that's why I liked the idea. When I asked you the question, you said, well, I can hit pitching wedge,
three quarter pitching wedge. And I know the yardage is going to be a hundred yards, meaning
like, I know that I'm going to hit it at least a hundred. Yeah. So I'm going to avoid the hazard
type of thing. Cause and again, another topic for another conversation as you swing harder at a 52
versus swing harder at a pitching wedge, the 52 is going to might even go shorter, obviously,
cause there's a lot less lofty club. You're adding more spin to it, right? You're imparting more spin
because you're swinging harder, you're swinging faster and that's producing a higher ball flight,
which if there is any wind up there, that ball just drops. And number 12 at Augusta is the prime
example of that. Yes. Right. We sit back there and watch and how can the player, how can Francisco
Moulinari. Yep. And not only did he come up short, Tony Fino two balls later,
correct. Came up short. Well, great instance. How about Jordan Spieth? Yeah. You know, he was
absolutely, I think he had one, one arm in the sleeve of that green jacket that year and number
12 came up. Yep. Well, and that, that year I'm talking about is when Tiger hit it on the green
green, and he, the whole tournament changed in that little 11, which is a men corner, 11, 12, 13.
Right. But Tiger hit a lower ball flight. He's played the experience kind of going back, almost
going back to my friend, Jeff Leonard. Tiger's played Augusta at that time, probably 22 times,
you know, played the masters that many times because he just won it in 2020 or whatever.
So he, he, he understood the whole, he understood all of it. He understood like the,
Hey, you know what? I'm a little bit not tight, but just not like, I don't want to try to swing
hard at something. The wind always moves up in that area. You don't really know for sure what it's
doing above those trees. Let me keep it lower underneath the wind. These are all concepts that
you should be thinking about Saturday morning. And I think he even said that he knew that when
those guys hit those shots and missed it on that, he knew that they played it wrong. Yeah. And the
way that he played it, and I can't remember exactly. I mean, I think he said, I'm just going
for the center of the green, not going after it. And he knew after that he came off that hole, that
he had a really good chance to pour probably in his mind. He knew he was going to win. You know,
he knew the rest of the holes coming on in. He knew the mistakes that they made. And if you get
behind Tiger at all. Yeah. Yeah. And, and then that's almost going back to like, that was again,
2020, I think, or 20, whatever the last one will be, he won, which I think was 20. Yeah. But the
red shirt days, the red shirt Sunday days, right? That was a two thought, that was from like 96 on
and that intimidated the field to see him in his red shirt on Sunday. Absolutely. Already got an
advantage. So we talk about psychological importance. He's already got an advantage
before he even teased the ball up on Sunday. And he knows that he's going to, you know,
well, he even puts it out there that, you know, I'm wearing the red shirt because it's,
I'm not taking any prisoners. I mean, he even, you know, he puts that out there. I mean,
and it's a visual for everybody. I'm not going to take any prisoners. And by the way,
I'm the number one player in the world and watch me smoke it. Yep. I can't think of another player
that I can think of their, their shirt color on Sunday. It doesn't matter. Nobody else. Maybe
Jack with yellow. Okay. Jack with yellow. I think would be about it. But you know, there again,
you're talking about two greatest golfers of all time. Arguably. Yeah. But just, just cool that
maybe that's even from Earl, his dad or some somehow psychologically. I think he got it from
his mom. Okay. Yeah. From his mom. I think he got it from his mom because I think it's a,
what's that Asian influence of that or something like that. I believe it is or something like that,
but red is like a no mercy, power color and you know, in that culture that, that really means
something. Yeah. So, yeah. And you got to think it has a psychological effect for tiger as well.
Right. Right. You know, he's out there and he's thinking, I've got my, you know, I've got my,
I'm a baseball player, my lucky socks on. So I'm going to beat you. Yeah. You know,
so it's just that mental confidence that you get as well. I just heard an interview with Patrick
Holmes this week. He hasn't changed his jock stops in like six weeks now.
Because they're not going to do commercial about that. Him and his wife are not getting close or
whatever. They were talking about it. He's like, I'm not changing until I lose again. So maybe on
Monday when he plays, I bet his wife's from the land and the equipment trainer. So it's just kind
of funny, but it is one of those, one of those, you know, superstition type of things. So I want
to finish up just real quick. The, you mentioned Paul Lasinger with playing with your buddy,
Keith and stuff. And again, another, you know, Florida section guy who also, cause that's the
thing with like, there are, I think I think I'm correct with this. There's 23 classifications of
PGA members. We are, I think I'm currently like an A1, which means it's a general manager slash
head professional as a classification tour players, I think are a four that is like
classifications for all these guys. So that's like an IRS. Yeah. That's why. And if you're,
if you're a club fitter or if you're a swing coach or teaching professional, if you work in the media,
there's all these different classifications. Okay. Yeah. So, um, it's cool that that's kind of the
point is like, it's cool that Gary Koch can play in the same tournaments that Keith Kulzer and Tim
McElvena and Jeff Leonard and I, you know, like we, like we're all playing in the same event,
trying to do the same thing. So back in the day, I'm going to go, this is probably around
98. So A's anger had won a British open at that point. Um, so me and my friend go play in the
Sarasota city championship golf tournament at Bobby Jones complex. Oh, okay. Have you ever played
down there? No, no, I've not really, really cool public facility. Yeah, exactly. 36 holes. They got
the American and the international sides or whatever. So me and my friend from Massachusetts,
uh, we go down there and play now. Nobody knows who we are, which is great. Kind of a good way
to go into a tournament. Yeah. Right. Kind of a good way. Almost the white men can't jump theory
again. Like who are these guys? So anyways, short story is somehow some way me and my buddy win the
two day tournament gross or whatever negative eight for the two days, whatever on the trophy is
is Paul Lazinger and his partner from like 1989 or whatever it was. I'm like, how cool is that? I got
my name on the same trophy. That's as close as I'll ever get. Exactly. That's amazing. I'll ever
get, but, um, you know, I think that does bring out a good point as we kind of conclude here is
that, you know, with the level of talent that the chapter has and in this area, um, that we get
exposed to, um, that just kind of drifts down to our students, you know, and I think that's, that's
the beauty about this section is chapter, um, is that we have such an array of talent. We've got
major winners. Uh, we've got people that won the paint Stuart award. Um, we've got, you know,
chapter, uh, champions, senior chapter champions, and we get to discuss and talk golf with these
guys, uh, sometimes on the golf course and sometimes out of the golf course. Did you, did you know Kenny
Sims at all? Pretty well. So Kenny was over at Rogers park for years, um, African American guy,
just, uh, one of the, again, one of the most classy individuals you'll ever meet, um, worked
at Rogers park, worked at the Tampa sports authority. Now he's in Texas at the PGA, the fresco. Yeah.
Fresco. Yeah. He's top dog there. Right. So he did so many good things for youth and, and, um, kind
of the underprivileged youth. And again, just somebody that I can, I've got on my phone that I
could text and say, Hey Kenny, what's going on? You know, what happened last year at Rogers park?
You know, how is that event to whatever? So again, exposure to these different players and these
people that are just, you know, we, we, as PGA professionals, we should portray an image. We
really do, you know, and, and we do, we are respected and we are looked up to. And sometimes
we get beaten down inside the pro shop because, you know, whatever happens and it's not like we're
looking for the respect, but Hey, we put our hours in. Yes. We put our time in and, uh, I think it's,
I think it's a great thing. I'm excited to continue this with, with UT now, because I think it's such
a good way to be able to get our information in our heads out to the golfers, getting our message
out to the people. Yeah. So, um, as we say, we're going to conclude here. So, um, I'm one of your
cohosts and Macavan the owner and operator of swing theory golf.com. Yep. And I am Sean Klotz,
owner and operator of one stop golf club. So thank you for listening to dynamic golf podcast.
You can reach us at dynamic golf.org or Sean, where can they reach you at? Uh, Lake Bernadette
links. The Lake Bernadette is probably the best place, or we can just go on my website, which is
one stop golf shop, FL.com. Still looking for members over at the club. How many memberships
do we still have? We have 15 available over at the golf club, which is one stop golf club. Again,
that's an indoor, you know, virtual, uh, private hitting facility, even during this beautiful
weather. Now it's dark at six o'clock. Yeah. So it's nice to be able to have a place to go
work on your game. Gotcha. And then I know you're, you're gearing up with your students coming down
for the absolutely getting a lot of the Northern people down here. So it's an exciting time to be
down here in Florida. So if you want to get ahold of me for a golf lesson, I'm at swing theory
golf.com. Um, and please, uh, reach out to us, let us know if you have any questions or comments and
please subscribe. Thank you and have a great day. Thanks. Call first.
I think we did great right there. Good dude. I think that was good. That was a lot of fun.
Yeah, good job. Definitely. Good job. I should have moved the camera over there.
Okay. But we live and learn. Okay. Okay. We live and learn. That's all right. Cause I'm most of
the time this way. So next time we'll kind of have it over there. So I thought about that,
like about halfway through. I was like, you know, I should have had that camera over there. Anyway.
How long was that one? Do you know? About 50 minutes. Yeah.
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