WEBVTT

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is burning down to my bones and welcome back

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to the Bone Club. We are now live, sort of, from

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New Orleans and the AAFS. Today we have Hannah

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Carson and Thomas Delgado, as well as our wonderful

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Stephanie, and we're going to talk about everything

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that we saw at the American Academy of Forensic

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Sciences conference that took place, actually

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it was two weeks ago, in New Orleans. We all

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needed to, you know, file back down after Mardi

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Gras and stuff to get our lives back in order.

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Mardi Gras was pretty epic. And I think we can

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all agree for anybody who was there, it was a

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hike. The entire conference was just one giant

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hike. Yeah, I think I walk like five miles a

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day. Got to work off all the good food. Oh, it

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was good food. I say being from Louisiana, it

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was definitely good to go back home. But I say,

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well, Hannah and Thomas, if y 'all want to introduce

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yourselves, you know, say a little bit about

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yourself, maybe what got you into anthropology,

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just so our audience knows a little bit about

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your background while we chit chat. Yeah. Yeah,

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so I'm Hannah. I'm a PhD student at the University

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of Montana in Missoula. And yeah, I've been interested

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in anthropology for a while now, even back into

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high school. But my undergrad, I did more of

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a general forensic science kind of trajectory

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and then got into anthropology in my master's

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and now my PhD. So yeah, I kind of just love

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the combination of skeletal. anatomy with applying

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it to the forensic sciences what's your dissertation

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on so my dissertation is actually a bioarchaeological

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project uh on a roman site in croatia so yeah

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it's kind of exciting stuff we're trying to do

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a multi -disciplinary project using both skeletal

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analyses ideally genetics and and hopefully stable

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isotopes as well so the isotopes yeah everyone

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always has the like the coolest like topics for

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their dissertations and stuff like don't get

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me wrong i loved my thesis research but like

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hearing everyone's like topics i'm like wow feels

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so like sciencey when mine was just like oh we

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need to be honest with ourselves but that's okay

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Go ahead, Thomas. Speaking of stable isotopes.

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That's true. I definitely have a love for stable

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isotopes here. So I'm Thomas Delgado. I'm a PhD

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student at the University of Utah in Salt Lake.

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And what got me into anthropology is really how

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we could further the identification of marginalized

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decedents. So my thesis research was really focused

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on how we could use or further use stable isotope

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analysis to help. identify migrant remains using

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some different machine learning and artificial

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intelligence algorithms for classification of

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isotope values across Mexico to Colombia. And

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now I'm currently working on a few different

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methods to possibly strengthen the interpretations

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that are made for stable isotopes, specifically

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for medical legal settings. So trying to kind

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of formalize a bit stronger how we can make those

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interpretations in accord a lot. fancy cool it's

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something no it's awesome i mean we had uh someone

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a couple episodes back come and talk about isotopes

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so i think it's definitely something that the

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field needs to get behind i mean not that the

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field's not behind it but like i i definitely

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know a lot of people don't know how to use it

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necessarily so it's nice that it's becoming bigger

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and more well -rounded of a topic within anthropology.

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Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree. I think it's

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important to understand how we use our methods.

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So if we're going to do it, we might as well

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do it as best as we can with as much background

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of the actual mechanisms of isotopic variation

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that we can, which I guess is also conveniently

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why I'm not doing a PhD in anthropology. I'm

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in a geology and geophysics department. do all

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the isotope specific stuff and see how we can

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kind of bridge the gap between anthropology and

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like isotope geochemistry. Perfect. So let's

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go ahead and get this started. I mean, there,

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there was a lot going on. I think this week you

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had had a lot going on with the business meeting

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and the business side of stuff, which actually

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does affect the field. You also had a wide variety

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of papers, which was kind of broader than normal,

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I thought. And then you had the fun stuff that

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kept everyone out until 3 a .m. The Mardi Gras

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part? The Mardi Gras part, because they really

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picked the perfect time to hold. So going to

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the scientific sessions. What were your favorites?

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What were the highlights for you? For either,

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for any of y 'all. The isotopes one was one of

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my favorites. Start with Hannah. Yeah, yeah,

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I agree. I mean, you know, Thomas actually started

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out the isotope session right at 8am. Did a phenomenal

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job. And actually, that was a really informational

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session overall. Like I mentioned, I'm trying

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to get more knowledgeable in stable isotope research

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as I'm trying to use it for my own research.

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So, yeah, it was super great to see, especially

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applied to forensic settings, which you don't

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always see. Obviously, there's so many papers

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on it used in archaeological research, but to

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see it in forensic is really interesting and

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so knowledgeable. Yeah, I thought that was a

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great start to all the podium talks. I say, didn't

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y 'all do any workshops, actually, before we

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go too far? Besides the forensic ants meeting

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on Tuesday, I didn't do anything outside of the

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primary conference, unfortunately. I did the,

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it was a vicarious trauma talk on Monday that

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Cat Pope helped put together. It was really nice.

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It was one of those, like, it's a topic that

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I think about a lot because I feel like so much

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of our field tries to be so objective in what

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we do. And which kind of ties back to my thesis,

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but like not wanting to admit the subjectivity

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and we're getting a little bit better about that

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in our field. But I think that trying to like

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pretend to be. so rigorous and pretending to

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be objective and pretending that we can separate

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ourselves from what we're doing just leads to

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more vicarious trauma and so it was really like

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it wasn't an anthro specific workshop but it

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was very interesting to hear how kind of similar

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things are happening in all of the forensic sciences

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that like when we just sit there and pretend

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it doesn't bother us and we pretend we can compartmentalize

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and some of us can to a certain extent but like

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It weighs on you. And I think it's, it was very

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refreshing to be in a room of people just being

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like, I love my job. But sometimes it hurts me.

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And like, just being very honest about it was

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really nice, because I feel like sometimes you

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can't, I don't know, can't complain. Like, it

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feels like you are like, well, I'm doing this

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for a reason. And I want to, you know, help the

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people that you know are my casework and all

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of that can be true and doing the casework can

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hurt you all at the same time and it was really

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nice to just like be in a room where people were

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just like so honest about how casework affects

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them um felt like a very yeah just a comfortable

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place and then learning like We talked about

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a bunch of different like signs and symptoms

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and PTSD and other things that like, you know,

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we might talk about burnout a lot in the field,

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but that's, you know, one step closer and closer

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to potentially PTSD and things like that. And

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it's just, it was, I don't know. It was a very

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interesting talk. I don't, I don't know. I know

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Kat ended up doing. her own presentation a little

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bit about it too which i really really appreciated

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um i don't know if any of y 'all got to i i did

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go to that yeah that was a very good talk it

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was one of my favorites of the entire session

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and it was a topic that the academy as a whole

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was really i don't want to say pushing but promoting

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the entire uh conference this year that was the

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plenary session this year yeah was on vicarious

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and psychological trauma was so that that was

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their keynote right on that as well so i thought

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that was a good um focus particularly when you

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think of the theme of back to basics as well

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exactly exactly yeah yeah i also just feel like

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that uh because i did hear about the workshop

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as well i wasn't able to attend though but i

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think it's just really timely i think in light

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of the opening of these discussions like i definitely

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feel like these conversations that kind of go

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against the norm or i guess expectations that

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we might have as forensic professionals can sometimes

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be like buried for 10 15 20 years and you know

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it takes a long time to expose those traumas

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um so i'm sure we've been experiencing vicarious

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trauma for a long time before just we started

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talking about it a few years ago but at least

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i feel like we went from we're talking about

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it a few years ago now we're like actually openly

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talking about it we're hosting workshops we're

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getting the attention of like scientific leaders

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and conference leadership to actually bring this

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topic to more of the forefront of i think people's

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attention and i really enjoyed kat's presentation

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that she provided as well because it wasn't also

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it wasn't limited to explicitly vicarious trauma

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it also encapsulated like just routes of mental

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health and the stresses on mental health within

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forensic and ecological medical legal settings

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that I think is just a nice extra added layer

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that was really important to have in a session

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that was really centered on ethics and best practices.

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Yeah. And I think it's a topic that what I liked

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about what something more Kat was trying to reach

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at and I hope the workshop reached at it like

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promise i couldn't couldn't attend i think some

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just as a side note for any students that are

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considering attending these conferences in the

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future workshops are extra and they're expensive

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they can be very extra yeah and that plus you

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know changing flights can be a lot of extra so

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They're really something that if your employer

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or your school are willing to pay for, definitely

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do while you have the chance. Yeah. But I hope

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that that workshop also not just brought attention

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to, but was able to bring remedy, bring a solution.

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It was to a certain extent. And I think that's,

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it's. it's what's hard right the it's it's much

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easier to point out a problem than it is to have

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a solution especially for something that is so

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complex as it is case to case dependent and it

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is person to person dependent and so there's

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not going to be a one -size -fits -all problem

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fix yeah and so they definitely they talked about

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a lot of like personal things that you can keep

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like keep track of and like knowing yourself,

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having accountability buddies for like, you know,

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your own mental health and having a therapist

00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:05.220
to talk to, even if you aren't currently going

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through anything, having a therapist to talk

00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.840
to that way, they, you know, you know, your baseline,

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like, you know, when you're okay, this is how

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I'm feeling. And when something's going on, then

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you have something to kind of compare it back

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to. They also talked a lot about like, seeing

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those signs in your coworkers and your friends

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and being like having an environment to talk

00:14:29.789 --> 00:14:33.690
to people and try to like, it's one of those

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that like, you know, our field is so small. We're

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all friends to a certain extent. And so then

00:14:40.870 --> 00:14:44.029
you, you know, when you notice your friend going

00:14:44.029 --> 00:14:46.860
through something. Don't just ignore it, you

00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:49.279
know, and like talk to them about it and maybe

00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:51.139
they're not ready to talk and that's okay too.

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But like just being able to see those signs and

00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:57.820
symptoms, because I think when I was listening

00:14:57.820 --> 00:15:01.139
to it, there was a lot of things that I noticed

00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:03.539
in myself that I was like, oh, I do that. Oh,

00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:06.799
I do that. And independently, you don't necessarily

00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.539
think of them as a problem where you, you know,

00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:13.240
like something as simple as like, oh, when I

00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.460
go home, I can't turn it off. I still think about

00:15:16.460 --> 00:15:19.620
my job when I get home. And that's not necessarily

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something a lot of fields go through. Like if

00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:24.679
you work a normal office job where you're doing,

00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:27.279
like my boyfriend does taxes, where you're like,

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you're going to come home, you're not thinking

00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:33.120
about taxes anymore. But I - You're sorry for

00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:35.879
your boyfriend. Yeah, he doesn't love it, but

00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:40.419
it's fine. It's a job. But it's one of those

00:15:40.419 --> 00:15:43.440
things that like, if I have a particularly hard

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case, and I come home that's all I think about

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and I think about their families and what they

00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:52.720
might be going through and because what we do

00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:57.059
is so human focused you can't really separate

00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:00.519
yourself from it and so like yeah and but like

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I don't think in my head I before that talk was

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I necessarily thinking of that as a a bad thing

00:16:06.340 --> 00:16:09.759
and it's not bad like all bad obviously but like

00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:15.350
the ability to not leave work at work is going

00:16:15.350 --> 00:16:18.190
to weigh on you over time and I never even really

00:16:18.190 --> 00:16:22.309
thought about it until like sometimes the answer

00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:24.929
is so simple and yet you just like don't think

00:16:24.929 --> 00:16:29.289
about it um we also talked about how a lot of

00:16:29.289 --> 00:16:33.389
uh like traumas and other things also happen

00:16:33.389 --> 00:16:38.009
because of poor management and so we had a couple

00:16:38.009 --> 00:16:42.269
different um like managers that like gave presentations

00:16:42.269 --> 00:16:45.090
that like talked about like what they try to

00:16:45.090 --> 00:16:52.110
do to make their work environment easier to talk

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about where like one person had brought up the

00:16:54.590 --> 00:16:58.429
fact that like they have an in -house like not

00:16:58.429 --> 00:17:00.330
therapist but like someone that they can go talk

00:17:00.330 --> 00:17:02.789
to if they're having trouble with it like with

00:17:02.789 --> 00:17:08.039
anything um work related and yet their office

00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:09.859
is at the end of a hallway so you have to walk

00:17:09.859 --> 00:17:13.279
down everyone's cubicle and everyone knows and

00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.039
so then it's not really a safe space to go and

00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:20.099
talk to them about it and so like when it's like

00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:22.940
sometimes it's like you can have the quote -unquote

00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:24.819
remedies and they're not really remedies either

00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:27.700
because then everyone knows you're having a problem

00:17:27.700 --> 00:17:30.599
and that's stigmatized and you know all of that

00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:32.859
I don't know it was it was good though because

00:17:32.859 --> 00:17:35.700
they I feel like I'm rambling a lot but they

00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:40.480
They just like talked a lot about just like making

00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:44.299
sure that you keep checking in on yourself and

00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:48.599
also being able to say, I know, like, I can't

00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:51.480
do this any longer. And that's okay too, of like,

00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:55.819
maybe working on, you know, child cases didn't

00:17:55.819 --> 00:17:59.559
bother you 10 years ago, but now you have a kid

00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.480
of your own and they affect you much more. And

00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.220
being able to say like, Those aren't the cases

00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:08.559
I want to work anymore, actually. And being honest

00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:10.539
with yourself and not pushing yourself past your

00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:12.480
own limits is a lot of what we talked about,

00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:18.240
which was really nice. That's good. Sorry, someone

00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:20.299
else can talk. I was rambling a lot. I really

00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:24.559
liked the topic. I think there's definitely a

00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:30.519
lot to digest in it. It is a good topic. Another

00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:35.730
one that I really liked. was the ethics one.

00:18:37.289 --> 00:18:40.650
It was a little short, but I think there was

00:18:40.650 --> 00:18:44.130
a withdrawn presentation in it, which made it

00:18:44.130 --> 00:18:46.630
a little short. I was moderating that session,

00:18:46.829 --> 00:18:49.490
so I got to sit there for the 15 minutes and

00:18:49.490 --> 00:18:56.609
say, wow, this is short. I will say this. There

00:18:56.609 --> 00:19:02.210
was one talk in there, it was Devon's, and I'm

00:19:02.210 --> 00:19:05.970
the one who made the rule. that i did not know

00:19:05.970 --> 00:19:12.750
that the medical the the forensic center here

00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:17.769
had a skeletal collection had a backlog in memphis

00:19:17.769 --> 00:19:27.970
that um steve sims had worked on and and started

00:19:27.970 --> 00:19:32.349
to curate and they were talking about it during

00:19:32.349 --> 00:19:38.160
that that session. I didn't realize that until

00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.380
then. And it made me come home and say, hey,

00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:50.680
maybe? I think I was confusing the two sessions

00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:54.059
that you were talking about. There was a break

00:19:54.059 --> 00:19:59.279
in between. Yes. It was the same session. It

00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:00.660
was just there was a break in between the two

00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:07.049
sets of moderators. But it was the one ethics

00:20:07.049 --> 00:20:13.130
session. But both of them were really good. The

00:20:13.130 --> 00:20:16.970
whole thing was really good. Ah, yes. I see the

00:20:16.970 --> 00:20:20.430
other session. I had to pull the program up.

00:20:22.009 --> 00:20:25.410
It's been two weeks. It's been two weeks. I pulled

00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:31.390
the program up. I also really appreciated there

00:20:31.390 --> 00:20:37.599
was one talk that it i mean it was good in the

00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:39.500
sense that it like it fit really well with the

00:20:39.500 --> 00:20:43.039
theme of like back to basics which i felt i was

00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.740
i was kind of curious at how anthro was going

00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:49.299
to try to go back to basics and so this one that

00:20:49.299 --> 00:20:53.339
i really appreciated it was um they were talking

00:20:53.339 --> 00:20:58.319
about like language use for items at the border

00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:02.279
and instead of like yeah switching out the language

00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:05.259
of what we're actually calling what we're finding

00:21:05.259 --> 00:21:08.819
calling it an artifact instead of trash and like

00:21:08.819 --> 00:21:13.660
being able to reframe what we're doing in a way

00:21:13.660 --> 00:21:15.420
that like isn't dismissive of the people that

00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:17.700
are you know putting their lives on the line

00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:19.579
to you know try to make better for themselves

00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:25.440
and how some how such an easy switch on our end

00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:29.400
can really impact what the interpretation of

00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:34.400
it is in the long run was really nice and I felt

00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:36.400
fit really well with that back to basics because

00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.819
like at first you're like okay cool I'll change

00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:40.480
some words that I say but then you're like no

00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.420
actually the words mattered like the words make

00:21:43.420 --> 00:21:48.359
such a big difference in the overall intent behind

00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:51.759
what we're doing and how people feel about the

00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:54.460
words we're you know using and it was really

00:21:54.460 --> 00:21:57.279
it was really nice to to hear something like

00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:01.579
that because I think a lot of times people At

00:22:01.579 --> 00:22:04.680
least some of the older folks in the forensic

00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.940
generations are like, oh, what is the difference?

00:22:08.019 --> 00:22:10.079
It's the same thing. And it's like, but it isn't.

00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:16.259
Like, it really isn't. But it's not just us and

00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:20.460
our report writing. It is all those who end up

00:22:20.460 --> 00:22:24.400
using the report as well. I think that was very

00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.220
important that they got across. Yeah, for sure.

00:22:28.089 --> 00:22:30.349
Yeah, and honestly, that whole session, I think,

00:22:30.390 --> 00:22:33.970
was really impactful. If we're thinking back

00:22:33.970 --> 00:22:36.009
to basics, I mean, back to basics has always

00:22:36.009 --> 00:22:39.589
been about, well, I shouldn't say that. I should

00:22:39.589 --> 00:22:42.109
say it's always been about. When I think of back

00:22:42.109 --> 00:22:44.849
to basics with forensic anthropology, I think

00:22:44.849 --> 00:22:47.029
of what got me really interested in it, which

00:22:47.029 --> 00:22:51.589
was humanitarian and human rights work. So it

00:22:51.589 --> 00:22:53.650
was nice to see those continuing conversations.

00:22:54.049 --> 00:22:56.819
I don't think there's ever been a lull. really

00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:58.960
in those conversations that asked but it's nice

00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.680
to see that we can that we are continuing to

00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:03.640
have it i think some of those talks really got

00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.980
about got to you know the basics of the foundation

00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:13.180
of missingness and materiality and personal identity

00:23:13.180 --> 00:23:17.160
like i victoria soto gave a really impactful

00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:21.700
presentation just in the way in which that they

00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:28.430
described the human centered purpose of identification.

00:23:29.029 --> 00:23:33.309
And I guess to me, that is what I view as a basic

00:23:33.309 --> 00:23:36.849
in what I do. So being able to stand there again

00:23:36.849 --> 00:23:39.210
as an anthropologist, putting the anthropologists

00:23:39.210 --> 00:23:42.470
and forensic anthropologists, and we say, these

00:23:42.470 --> 00:23:44.529
are people we have worked with. These are their

00:23:44.529 --> 00:23:46.390
names. These are their stories. This is why it

00:23:46.390 --> 00:23:50.109
matters. I don't think there's any more clear

00:23:50.109 --> 00:23:55.000
cut fundamental in my opinion. not just case

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:58.539
numbers bringing the anthropology back to forensic

00:23:58.539 --> 00:24:02.160
anthropology which is important because at the

00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.900
end of the day we are anthropologists first that

00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:10.279
you know we are doing human work just with a

00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:22.799
forensic lens and yeah so that was yeah I think

00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.680
that's something with everything that we have

00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:31.859
to try to do is bring that anthropology back

00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:37.099
in. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah, there's definitely some

00:24:37.099 --> 00:24:39.400
tears shed at some of those talks, though, of

00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:46.579
just, like, it's... The human side of it is emotional.

00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:50.630
And I think that's why, like... Yeah, I, that

00:24:50.630 --> 00:24:52.569
was just one thing that like throughout all of

00:24:52.569 --> 00:24:55.369
the talks that like, I felt really impacted by

00:24:55.369 --> 00:24:59.369
I was like, it was that emotional connection

00:24:59.369 --> 00:25:01.990
of like, this is why we're doing what we're doing

00:25:01.990 --> 00:25:03.890
and why what we're doing matters and we're not

00:25:03.890 --> 00:25:07.730
studying bones because we're scientists it's

00:25:07.730 --> 00:25:10.750
no like we're doing something with this that

00:25:10.750 --> 00:25:13.289
is impactful and helpful and if it's not helpful

00:25:13.289 --> 00:25:16.390
then why are we doing it. And I think that was

00:25:16.390 --> 00:25:20.109
nice to. to hear a lot of talks kind of center

00:25:20.109 --> 00:25:23.670
that back but i think i think that goes with

00:25:23.670 --> 00:25:27.329
virtually any of the sciences or the exception

00:25:27.329 --> 00:25:31.670
of mathematics you won't find most scientists

00:25:31.670 --> 00:25:37.569
do what they do because there is a passion and

00:25:37.569 --> 00:25:40.130
an emotion associated with what they're doing

00:25:40.130 --> 00:25:51.759
they are um There's a sort of trying to help,

00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:56.180
trying to solve a problem of some kind. And for

00:25:56.180 --> 00:26:03.519
us, it is trying to return a loved one to their

00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:09.079
family, whether it's their natural family or

00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:12.539
their chosen family. We're trying to return them

00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:16.450
to their loved ones. If it's in biology, you're

00:26:16.450 --> 00:26:20.369
trying to either work with a species or a plant.

00:26:20.430 --> 00:26:23.230
You're trying to figure something out with that,

00:26:23.309 --> 00:26:26.950
save it in some kind of way, whatever. So there

00:26:26.950 --> 00:26:32.690
is something there. And I think that is something

00:26:32.690 --> 00:26:40.549
our field for a while has forgotten. And for

00:26:40.549 --> 00:26:44.789
the past couple years. We're starting to get

00:26:44.789 --> 00:26:49.190
back. We're starting to. Put that anthropology

00:26:49.190 --> 00:26:54.170
back in. And I think it is this. Our group. Our

00:26:54.170 --> 00:26:58.829
younger generation. Generation. We're young.

00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:07.150
We're young. That is doing that. That is. Really

00:27:07.150 --> 00:27:12.509
trying to fight for that. 100%. And I think that.

00:27:13.069 --> 00:27:18.950
I think that fight is so in our generation that

00:27:18.950 --> 00:27:20.630
like, I don't know, I don't necessarily want

00:27:20.630 --> 00:27:23.210
to pass up any other talks if we want to talk

00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:25.529
about those, but like the business meeting itself,

00:27:25.569 --> 00:27:29.450
like that was one thing that we really fought

00:27:29.450 --> 00:27:31.690
over was, you know, a lot of times for business

00:27:31.690 --> 00:27:34.410
meetings, it's a lot of like, everyone agree.

00:27:34.630 --> 00:27:36.809
Yeah, cool. Move on. Everyone agree. Yeah, cool.

00:27:36.890 --> 00:27:40.900
Move on. And it was. Greg Berg and Christian

00:27:40.900 --> 00:27:44.559
Crowder fighting over who gets to make the most.

00:27:44.779 --> 00:27:49.940
Yeah, exactly. But this time, it hit us hard

00:27:49.940 --> 00:27:53.400
and hit us in something that we thought mattered

00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:56.640
in that with the current administration, we had

00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.519
to change a lot of wording for guidelines in

00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:04.700
order to get funding. And the fact that it wasn't

00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:06.400
just a, okay, yeah, we'll do what we have to

00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:09.130
do to get funding and move on. It was like, yes

00:28:09.130 --> 00:28:11.630
fine we will and i do think that's how the vote

00:28:11.630 --> 00:28:15.029
ended up going but it was like we wanted known

00:28:15.029 --> 00:28:19.009
that like the intent's still there like sure

00:28:19.009 --> 00:28:21.450
we might change words so that we don't immediately

00:28:21.450 --> 00:28:25.630
get the boot for funding but the fun like the

00:28:25.630 --> 00:28:28.650
intent behind it mattered and that's why we had

00:28:28.650 --> 00:28:31.230
it worded the way we had it worded and so making

00:28:31.230 --> 00:28:36.289
sure that it's clear to not only ourselves to

00:28:36.289 --> 00:28:38.960
feel like ethically and morally okay with what

00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:42.579
our decisions but to the students in the field

00:28:42.579 --> 00:28:44.559
that like this is something that the field cares

00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:48.940
deeply about and that was really nice i even

00:28:48.940 --> 00:28:51.799
though i laughed i feel like we can't talk about

00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:53.319
that business meeting without talking about the

00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.880
drone bird that flew in yes i love the ass pigeon

00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:02.259
oh it was the best there for the pigeon i did

00:29:02.259 --> 00:29:04.869
too it was fabulous it was great For the audience

00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:07.230
that doesn't know what we're talking about, during

00:29:07.230 --> 00:29:09.250
the business meeting, in the time we were talking

00:29:09.250 --> 00:29:15.650
about changing verbiage for some awards and stuff,

00:29:15.829 --> 00:29:21.470
talking about DEI, there was a pigeon that flew

00:29:21.470 --> 00:29:23.990
in through the door, flew over all of our heads,

00:29:24.069 --> 00:29:26.829
and then back out the door, which is weird because

00:29:26.829 --> 00:29:29.690
we were very much... on an inside building or

00:29:29.690 --> 00:29:31.349
like an inside room on an inside building on

00:29:31.349 --> 00:29:33.410
like the fourth floor or something yeah like

00:29:33.410 --> 00:29:36.089
three escalators ridiculous how the bird got

00:29:36.089 --> 00:29:38.769
in is very questionable but i immediately was

00:29:38.769 --> 00:29:41.470
like ah it's the drones the pigeon drones they're

00:29:41.470 --> 00:29:47.250
listening to us but there were there were two

00:29:47.250 --> 00:29:50.609
things that came up in the business meeting that

00:29:50.609 --> 00:29:55.230
was a that was a big one and we finally i think

00:29:55.230 --> 00:30:00.220
the intent was Carried on. We let the intent

00:30:00.220 --> 00:30:06.299
be known. Yes, agreed. The other one is what

00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:13.059
is our field's stance on NamUs? Oh, yeah. I was

00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:15.720
going to listen to this conversation. The fact

00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:24.559
that funding for NamUs is shaky. And I was really,

00:30:24.619 --> 00:30:29.559
I had invited our new section chair, Jamie Lee,

00:30:29.740 --> 00:30:35.420
to attend. She couldn't make it. But one of the

00:30:35.420 --> 00:30:40.220
things that I've heard, I brought it to her.

00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:45.539
I know a couple others have as well. I think

00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:48.279
there is a hope of trying to create some sort

00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:55.890
of ad hoc committee that will. help express the

00:30:55.890 --> 00:31:04.509
field or at least the section's interest in keeping

00:31:04.509 --> 00:31:08.009
NamUs funded. I said, do you mind explaining

00:31:08.009 --> 00:31:10.289
what NamUs is to our audience in case they don't

00:31:10.289 --> 00:31:14.069
know what NamUs is? Yes. I thought we had this

00:31:14.069 --> 00:31:16.490
in a past episode. I think it's in one of our

00:31:16.490 --> 00:31:20.269
past episodes, but NamUs is, yes, NamUs is a

00:31:22.080 --> 00:31:27.099
database for missing individuals in the United

00:31:27.099 --> 00:31:33.420
States. Law enforcement inputs information regarding

00:31:33.420 --> 00:31:36.359
missing individuals. Forensic scientists, particularly

00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:39.220
forensic anthropologists and pathologists and

00:31:39.220 --> 00:31:42.099
others, medical legal death investigators use

00:31:42.099 --> 00:31:44.839
this database as well as other law enforcement

00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:49.369
agencies. to compare decedents to try to help

00:31:49.369 --> 00:31:52.750
as well as missing persons to try to find missing

00:31:52.750 --> 00:31:58.150
persons the funding for that database lasts till

00:31:58.150 --> 00:32:00.730
september and then there is no funding after

00:32:00.730 --> 00:32:10.970
that who knows what happens after september um

00:32:10.970 --> 00:32:17.589
the The sort of confusion that existed in the

00:32:17.589 --> 00:32:27.470
business meeting is one individual had mentioned

00:32:27.470 --> 00:32:31.630
that the funding lasts for at least a year and

00:32:31.630 --> 00:32:35.490
there's no worry about it, and another who is

00:32:35.490 --> 00:32:39.150
also very knowledgeable in the subject noted

00:32:39.150 --> 00:32:41.690
that its funding is running out very shortly.

00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.359
It runs out in September. I looked up the legislation.

00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:53.079
It runs in September. So we as a field have to

00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:59.880
try to convince Congress to fund further. That's

00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:06.240
the issue. And they don't like to fund it. Even

00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:08.579
though we don't have any other nationalized missing

00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:12.319
persons or identified names? databases like it's

00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:14.079
already existing infrastructure that'll be a

00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:17.539
real that'll be a real hit so our involvement

00:33:17.539 --> 00:33:21.440
in policy is becoming more and more necessary

00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:26.240
yes there was a talk about that too about like

00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:31.140
making sure that you know the policies that are

00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:35.640
affecting our work and not just like oh it can

00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:38.799
pass and then maybe you know about it but the

00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.019
other people in the fields that are putting this

00:33:41.019 --> 00:33:44.000
on don't know about it because there was it was

00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:47.099
one talk about um i think it was in that same

00:33:47.099 --> 00:33:50.160
session actually but there was talking about

00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:58.920
um oh why my brain blanked on the name um but

00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:03.579
like repatriation um and like policy change and

00:34:03.579 --> 00:34:06.690
like what's required Yeah, it was NAGPRA and

00:34:06.690 --> 00:34:09.170
then there was another name was the one I was

00:34:09.170 --> 00:34:10.849
trying to think of, but it's fine regardless.

00:34:11.829 --> 00:34:14.949
But like knowing the policies and how they affect

00:34:14.949 --> 00:34:19.050
what you're doing and policy changes, you know,

00:34:19.050 --> 00:34:21.550
all the time necessarily without people being

00:34:21.550 --> 00:34:24.710
aware and then you're not following correct protocol

00:34:24.710 --> 00:34:27.110
and the protocol is there for a reason. And so,

00:34:27.230 --> 00:34:30.570
yeah, be just always being aware of what's going

00:34:30.570 --> 00:34:35.050
on. Well, and it's not just being aware. One

00:34:35.050 --> 00:34:39.949
of my many crusades, many with an I, not many

00:34:39.949 --> 00:34:46.110
with a Y, is we as anthropologists, we in the

00:34:46.110 --> 00:34:50.309
field have to start engaging in policy, not just

00:34:50.309 --> 00:34:58.210
as a consumer, but as an influencer. No, 100%.

00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:05.360
lobbyists. And as part of the conference, there

00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:09.760
was a smaller forensic anthropology meeting that

00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:13.099
was held on the Tuesday. We were all in attendance.

00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.699
I want to hear about it. Oh, you weren't there.

00:35:18.139 --> 00:35:20.940
No, yeah, I ended up doing the crime lab tour,

00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:24.239
so I'm curious to hear what it was about. One

00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:34.320
of the... It was on... Mr. Hanna, can you help

00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:41.179
me out? It was on participation. Participatory

00:35:41.179 --> 00:35:47.239
anthropology. It was like the proactive, not...

00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:51.320
Proactive anthropology. Proactive anthropology.

00:35:55.690 --> 00:35:58.829
Started bringing up, when it came to questions

00:35:58.829 --> 00:36:02.070
and answers, having to be engaged in advocacy

00:36:02.070 --> 00:36:06.250
of some kind. And that brought up this back and

00:36:06.250 --> 00:36:14.789
forth on, yes, you can be in advocacy, or no,

00:36:15.010 --> 00:36:19.789
you can't because it causes bias. But they were

00:36:19.789 --> 00:36:23.210
talking about a form of advocacy, all of them

00:36:23.210 --> 00:36:28.170
in an – Proving way, which is through policy

00:36:28.170 --> 00:36:36.110
and being engaged as an effect, a lobbyist almost

00:36:36.110 --> 00:36:43.230
advocating for policy change. And I think that's

00:36:43.230 --> 00:36:48.929
where the term gets muddled in our field is when

00:36:48.929 --> 00:36:54.170
we hear. Advocacy, advocacy and activism. We

00:36:54.170 --> 00:36:57.190
think of out in the streets with the signs picketing.

00:36:57.809 --> 00:37:04.170
But it can also be writing letters as a lab group

00:37:04.170 --> 00:37:09.210
or going to your state house or to your city

00:37:09.210 --> 00:37:15.110
council or even to D .C. and meeting with representatives,

00:37:15.570 --> 00:37:20.530
meeting with senators and trying to affect. And

00:37:20.530 --> 00:37:24.969
saying, this is why we need NamUs. Here's what

00:37:24.969 --> 00:37:28.710
it does for us. You need to fund it. Here's the

00:37:28.710 --> 00:37:35.409
benefits. That is advocacy. And that, I think,

00:37:35.409 --> 00:37:39.170
is what our field needs to start working towards.

00:37:39.349 --> 00:37:43.050
Because we haven't done that, really. We leave

00:37:43.050 --> 00:37:45.650
it to others. But we need to be the ones doing

00:37:45.650 --> 00:37:51.809
it. Yeah, I think a lot of times. we're uh we're

00:37:51.809 --> 00:37:53.969
a little quirky of a group that don't necessarily

00:37:53.969 --> 00:37:57.929
like public speaking uh some people i say full

00:37:57.929 --> 00:37:59.969
knowing i love public speaking so like i'm i'm

00:37:59.969 --> 00:38:03.110
probably the weird one in the group but uh it's

00:38:03.110 --> 00:38:06.170
definitely not the norm but like being able to

00:38:06.170 --> 00:38:10.590
correctly and adequately explain your science

00:38:10.590 --> 00:38:13.769
and explain what you need and advocate for those

00:38:13.769 --> 00:38:18.880
needs is important yeah i 100 agree And I think

00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:21.539
an interesting aspect of that larger discussion

00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:27.360
was like the expanding role of a forensic anthropologist,

00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.519
not in terms of like casework, but in terms of

00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.360
like employment placements. And this is something

00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:36.539
that I've kind of been thinking about, I think,

00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:40.670
over the last year or so is what. Is the role

00:38:40.670 --> 00:38:43.909
of, like, a forensic expert or forensic anthropologist

00:38:43.909 --> 00:38:48.050
outside of your really traditional academic or

00:38:48.050 --> 00:38:50.650
semi -less traditional medical legal coroner

00:38:50.650 --> 00:38:55.889
office position. Like, they had Paul Sledzik.

00:38:55.889 --> 00:38:58.849
Sledzik, yeah. Sledzik, sorry, that was a terrible

00:38:58.849 --> 00:39:02.489
between of a name. For the National Transportation

00:39:02.489 --> 00:39:07.280
Safety Board. Yeah. So having these foundational

00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.199
placements and possibly governmental or federal

00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:15.360
level leadership or even local state level leadership

00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:18.139
on different committees and boards, this idea

00:39:18.139 --> 00:39:21.179
of how we could occupy leadership and management

00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:23.260
spaces where we're actually making the decisions

00:39:23.260 --> 00:39:26.139
on the policies. And I thought that was really

00:39:26.139 --> 00:39:29.920
interesting. And it takes this decoupling, I

00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:35.670
think, in a person's mindset. I'm still a forensic

00:39:35.670 --> 00:39:37.630
anthropologist. I just don't do a lot of casework

00:39:37.630 --> 00:39:41.070
anymore. I don't do maybe any casework anymore.

00:39:41.489 --> 00:39:43.889
But you can still be a forensic anthropologist

00:39:43.889 --> 00:39:46.670
and still maintain that mindset. Getting access

00:39:46.670 --> 00:39:50.789
to casework is really hard. And only limited

00:39:50.789 --> 00:39:53.429
situations are going to get you that type of

00:39:53.429 --> 00:39:56.650
access. So we can still continue to be active

00:39:56.650 --> 00:39:59.690
in the field and advocate for our policy needs

00:39:59.690 --> 00:40:01.969
and work with, you know, varying stakeholders

00:40:01.969 --> 00:40:04.150
that don't understand what we might need to make

00:40:04.150 --> 00:40:06.809
our job work. I think there's a lot of strength

00:40:06.809 --> 00:40:08.730
in that, especially if we are able to do it from

00:40:08.730 --> 00:40:11.030
like positions of authority that are intrinsic

00:40:11.030 --> 00:40:15.030
to the system. I'm not saying we should obviously

00:40:15.030 --> 00:40:17.409
do a lot of work from outside too, because that's

00:40:17.409 --> 00:40:20.250
super important. But I think there's definitely

00:40:20.250 --> 00:40:22.650
kind of an opening of a conversation where we

00:40:22.650 --> 00:40:27.230
can start considering these higher level management

00:40:27.230 --> 00:40:30.070
inside jobs, I think is really an interesting

00:40:30.070 --> 00:40:34.429
spot to think about. So what I'm hearing is that

00:40:34.429 --> 00:40:36.750
you're going to do that. You're going to become

00:40:36.750 --> 00:40:43.619
the head of... and I'm all for it. No, wait,

00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:48.360
but I like the casework. Listen, I also have

00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:51.659
it decoupled in my brain that I want to do a

00:40:51.659 --> 00:40:53.579
lot of casework, all right? I still want to do

00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:58.559
a lot of casework. No, I get it. But it's hard.

00:40:58.780 --> 00:41:03.199
It's hard to get access. It is. But maybe, I

00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:06.480
mean, maybe I won't be president, but maybe I

00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.420
could be a leader for... a federal branch. I

00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:13.639
don't know. I don't know. It sounds hard. I don't

00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:16.340
know. Look who's in charge. Well, we'll move

00:41:16.340 --> 00:41:21.000
past that, actually. Are there any other presentations

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:25.820
or posters that y 'all really enjoyed? I really

00:41:25.820 --> 00:41:30.340
liked the Tefonomy one as well. Did anybody go

00:41:30.340 --> 00:41:33.210
to that one? Was it just me? No, I missed the

00:41:33.210 --> 00:41:37.630
session, but I hit a lot of the TAF PMI posters.

00:41:38.829 --> 00:41:41.030
How were the posters? I didn't see the TAF ones.

00:41:41.250 --> 00:41:47.309
Posters were pretty good. A lot of Andy Yim's

00:41:47.309 --> 00:41:50.690
students in their lab out of George Mason had

00:41:50.690 --> 00:41:56.090
some really interesting PMI DK posters. I think

00:41:56.090 --> 00:41:58.789
one that I saw that was particularly interesting

00:41:58.789 --> 00:42:04.679
was the use of 3d scanning to estimate post -mortem

00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:08.400
interval i thought that was really sick you know

00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:10.219
i think there's some limitations to the technology

00:42:10.219 --> 00:42:13.400
that was shown in the poster that the individual

00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:16.880
who presented it and we had a pretty honest conversation

00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:21.360
about that but i think the promise of the technique

00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:25.260
could definitely be interesting You know, I was

00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:28.260
at the Salt Lake Crime Lab last year, and they

00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:31.840
had a very similar 3D scanning, like crime scene

00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:35.960
total station setup that they had used at George

00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:38.159
Mason. They just use a smaller handheld unit

00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:41.139
as a difference. And the resolution and crime

00:42:41.139 --> 00:42:43.559
scene reconstruction on that thing that the crime

00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:46.860
lab had was really inaccurate. So I'd be really

00:42:46.860 --> 00:42:48.920
interested in seeing how maybe we could develop.

00:42:49.309 --> 00:42:51.789
those types of techniques using higher resolution

00:42:51.789 --> 00:42:54.050
3D scanning devices, because I think that could

00:42:54.050 --> 00:43:02.150
be really good. Like Theron? Sorry, I'm not familiar.

00:43:07.170 --> 00:43:10.670
Just call Eugene Lishio. He'll come and do all

00:43:10.670 --> 00:43:17.210
your stuff. I will say this about the post, and

00:43:17.210 --> 00:43:20.489
maybe... You all might have seen it as well.

00:43:20.530 --> 00:43:26.809
There were quite a few, particularly of young

00:43:26.809 --> 00:43:33.650
– like master's level students. And I don't know

00:43:33.650 --> 00:43:36.670
– I don't recall it being this bad even when

00:43:36.670 --> 00:43:38.250
I was a master's level student. But you walk

00:43:38.250 --> 00:43:47.179
through and you say, that's been done. And it's

00:43:47.179 --> 00:43:49.579
not that's been done on a different population.

00:43:50.059 --> 00:43:55.159
It's that's been done and you left out the people

00:43:55.159 --> 00:44:02.360
who did it. And I saw that quite a few. I saw

00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:05.460
quite a few that were like that. I didn't want

00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:10.800
to mention Nank, but yeah. I mean, did you, this

00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:12.579
is something that I've been talking about with

00:44:13.630 --> 00:44:18.690
another group of people of like how to essentially

00:44:18.690 --> 00:44:22.869
mentor and stuff when oh yeah i did that i was

00:44:22.869 --> 00:44:24.869
i talked to him i talked to him for a long time

00:44:24.869 --> 00:44:28.429
about it and gave them hints on where to to look

00:44:28.429 --> 00:44:34.210
yeah and yeah because i feel like a lot of times

00:44:34.210 --> 00:44:38.610
sometimes like when it might seem like oh we've

00:44:38.610 --> 00:44:45.269
already done this or whatever uh You could only

00:44:45.269 --> 00:44:47.090
put so much on a poster, I guess is my point.

00:44:47.289 --> 00:44:49.289
Yeah, you could only put so much on a poster.

00:44:49.429 --> 00:44:53.789
But what I noticed about all of them is if the

00:44:53.789 --> 00:44:58.190
publication came out before 2020, they didn't

00:44:58.190 --> 00:45:05.489
look at it. And that's what bugged me. You have

00:45:05.489 --> 00:45:14.780
to go a bit beyond that. I say when you talk

00:45:14.780 --> 00:45:19.159
to them, I guess it's hard without giving specific

00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:21.039
examples, and that's not necessarily what I think

00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:24.800
we should do here. But yeah, that's interesting.

00:45:24.900 --> 00:45:27.219
I didn't necessarily come across any like that,

00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.480
but maybe I missed them because I didn't go to

00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:35.699
every poster session. But I don't know. I think

00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:39.860
it's hard as a student. It is hard as a student.

00:45:43.050 --> 00:45:44.889
As much as you can. And, you know, you talk to

00:45:44.889 --> 00:45:46.690
your professors, but also there's some universities

00:45:46.690 --> 00:45:50.170
that don't necessarily have professors that are

00:45:50.170 --> 00:45:52.650
in this field. You know, like, you know, you

00:45:52.650 --> 00:45:55.989
might be in an anthro department, but not a forensic

00:45:55.989 --> 00:45:58.010
anthro department or other things like that.

00:45:58.010 --> 00:46:00.929
Even a bio -anth department. Right. So, you know.

00:46:00.989 --> 00:46:05.190
And you don't know. I admit that. I mean, you

00:46:05.190 --> 00:46:11.230
don't know and you. And also, I do admit, even

00:46:11.230 --> 00:46:13.489
as a student. Because we do have a lot of students

00:46:13.489 --> 00:46:16.190
out there. You sit there and, all right, I need

00:46:16.190 --> 00:46:20.329
to come up with a new project no one's ever done

00:46:20.329 --> 00:46:22.369
before. And you start looking through the catalog

00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:26.030
and you end up real quickly going, well, shit,

00:46:26.230 --> 00:46:30.030
everything's already been researched. Yeah. Well,

00:46:30.070 --> 00:46:33.530
I think it might be something like because this

00:46:33.530 --> 00:46:36.809
year's theme was back to basics, there probably

00:46:36.809 --> 00:46:39.539
were a lot of people that were going. back to

00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:42.820
basics. So maybe, you know, maybe one other author

00:46:42.820 --> 00:46:48.840
had done something similar, but this was, you

00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:50.780
know, maybe they had something slightly different

00:46:50.780 --> 00:46:54.380
and that's why it was new. Yeah, I don't know.

00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:58.019
But you cite them. You do cite that other author.

00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:02.019
You say, hey, look, they did something similar.

00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:07.519
We found similar results. We found different

00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:15.460
results. That's science 101. Yeah. I guess I

00:47:15.460 --> 00:47:18.659
tried my best to give a little leeway. And I

00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:21.500
only say this because I know when I was doing

00:47:21.500 --> 00:47:26.659
my thesis data collection, I had an experience

00:47:26.659 --> 00:47:30.679
where, not that I'm saying you did this, you're

00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:32.599
obviously very kind, so like this is not you,

00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:36.280
but had someone come up to me and very crassly.

00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:39.440
complain that i did not cite them essentially

00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:43.559
oh no i did not do that i was just like well

00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.539
i cited where i got it from it's not my fault

00:47:46.539 --> 00:47:49.420
that they did something similar to you like it

00:47:49.420 --> 00:47:52.639
was just like i don't know so i think i i might

00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:56.920
be i'm biased in the hesitancy on saying that

00:47:56.920 --> 00:48:01.179
they did it oh no and it's it's yeah it's not

00:48:01.179 --> 00:48:10.869
that it is um Yeah, I think, like I said, it's

00:48:10.869 --> 00:48:17.010
a couple things. When the publications don't

00:48:17.010 --> 00:48:26.789
go beyond 2020. Sure. And this was a couple of

00:48:26.789 --> 00:48:29.110
posters I saw. It wasn't one. It was a few posters.

00:48:29.730 --> 00:48:35.230
It makes me wonder. And I don't know. Thomas,

00:48:35.309 --> 00:48:39.659
you've taught. You teach. I teach. Hannah, you

00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:45.900
teach. You sort of notice this, don't you? Well,

00:48:47.739 --> 00:48:49.079
I think back to, like, my time in undergrad,

00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:52.139
and obviously, like, I didn't do anything anthropology

00:48:52.139 --> 00:48:55.860
before I got to grad school, but so, like, it

00:48:55.860 --> 00:48:58.820
was very, like, all genetics classes, all chemistry

00:48:58.820 --> 00:49:02.300
classes, and I remember when I was writing my,

00:49:02.380 --> 00:49:04.860
like, senior, like, research project and and

00:49:04.860 --> 00:49:06.920
some of the instructors they kind of tell you

00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:10.539
when you're in those like i don't like use heavy

00:49:10.539 --> 00:49:14.119
sciences but you know like the more like molecular

00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:16.280
and chemistry and everything they're like don't

00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:18.940
use any sources before the last five years and

00:49:18.940 --> 00:49:22.139
i'm like uh because it's outdated and that's

00:49:22.139 --> 00:49:24.039
not like everyone but you have those professors

00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:26.960
because they're like this is you know not applicable

00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:30.349
but in anthropology you have to reference And

00:49:30.349 --> 00:49:33.050
I always did. I was like, okay, well, the thing

00:49:33.050 --> 00:49:36.929
on my project, people did the same thing or a

00:49:36.929 --> 00:49:40.070
very similar thing using different components

00:49:40.070 --> 00:49:42.170
or whatever 10 years ago. So I'm going to sort

00:49:42.170 --> 00:49:46.889
those 10, 15 -year -old papers because that's

00:49:46.889 --> 00:49:51.630
the basis of what I'm doing. But some, maybe

00:49:51.630 --> 00:49:54.469
there's just like a, you know, there's this thing

00:49:54.469 --> 00:49:57.840
like, oh, you have to use the most. new new papers

00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.800
new new sources because anything else could be

00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:05.000
updated and not to say that's right but maybe

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:08.539
no that's no and you're right it could be because

00:50:08.539 --> 00:50:12.199
thinking on it a lot of those i don't want to

00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:14.480
say harder sciences but they are harder in the

00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:17.699
sense of like chemistry and everything require

00:50:17.699 --> 00:50:20.900
more math Well, it's the ones that require more

00:50:20.900 --> 00:50:24.519
math. We require an awful lot of math. I do a

00:50:24.519 --> 00:50:28.400
lot of math. They churn out papers. Thankfully,

00:50:28.619 --> 00:50:31.699
I don't. You think about it, they churn out papers

00:50:31.699 --> 00:50:38.619
every other month. And you're expected to. Whereas

00:50:38.619 --> 00:50:44.760
in our field, you're lucky if you get maybe one

00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:52.559
a year, sometimes two. That's really good. I

00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:57.739
mean we have – when you hear – if you go to the

00:50:57.739 --> 00:51:01.780
main business meeting, the academy business meeting,

00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:05.940
and they're honoring somebody, a toxicologist

00:51:05.940 --> 00:51:08.639
or some other sort of chemist, and they're going

00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:11.239
through their publication record. Some of them

00:51:11.239 --> 00:51:15.929
have – you know 800 900 publications there isn't

00:51:15.929 --> 00:51:17.809
an anthropologist in the world's going to get

00:51:17.809 --> 00:51:22.829
that number but that's because of our field difference

00:51:22.829 --> 00:51:27.969
exactly so we use a much wider frame than five

00:51:27.969 --> 00:51:31.750
years i also think though and i don't know obviously

00:51:31.750 --> 00:51:33.849
because i don't know what the poster was and

00:51:33.849 --> 00:51:37.230
i don't want to necessarily go too much further

00:51:37.230 --> 00:51:42.500
into this but it also could be sometimes people

00:51:42.500 --> 00:51:47.440
don't have access to those papers. Yeah. A lot

00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:52.079
of our paperwork are behind a paywall that maybe

00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.320
had they had access to, you know, the thing that

00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:55.840
happened 10 years ago, they probably would have

00:51:55.840 --> 00:51:58.900
cited it. But when they did their Google search

00:51:58.900 --> 00:52:01.820
of things that are publicly available, didn't

00:52:01.820 --> 00:52:03.619
find anything. And so they're like, oh, well,

00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:09.539
this is a gap. And, you know, I, you know, I

00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:12.349
can't. You can find faults in it, and there is

00:52:12.349 --> 00:52:15.510
faults in it of not doing the due diligence and

00:52:15.510 --> 00:52:19.650
whatever, but there's also when you do your due

00:52:19.650 --> 00:52:24.309
diligence within what you have access to, no

00:52:24.309 --> 00:52:27.010
one's perfect. You're going to potentially miss

00:52:27.010 --> 00:52:30.409
some stuff. No one's perfect. I think for me,

00:52:30.429 --> 00:52:34.949
I put those students in line with what my students

00:52:34.949 --> 00:52:40.260
do a lot of times. Not so much. There's a lot

00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:47.460
of students I have that, yeah, they'll do that.

00:52:48.019 --> 00:52:54.260
They'll go with what they can and say, hey, we

00:52:54.260 --> 00:52:58.239
have what we have. Instead of, let's dig a few

00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:05.460
more layers. I don't know. It got me. I would

00:53:05.460 --> 00:53:08.659
say, did you... but i talked to him i talked

00:53:08.659 --> 00:53:10.840
to him for a while i i had a really good time

00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:14.079
talking with him good okay i i think that i think

00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:16.840
that's the thing is like i i try my best when

00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:21.639
especially with students is like it's so it's

00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:24.440
all right i mean it's scary for the adults in

00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:26.639
the room or not that they're not adults i'm sorry

00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:30.059
that's not the right way but the the old people

00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:35.980
in the room the the 1900s people um in that like

00:53:37.569 --> 00:53:40.070
it's scary enough for us to present and like

00:53:40.070 --> 00:53:41.969
make sure that we did everything right. And that

00:53:41.969 --> 00:53:43.670
like, we didn't miss stuff and whatever, but

00:53:43.670 --> 00:53:46.190
like, it's even scarier for a student to go and

00:53:46.190 --> 00:53:50.909
present a national stage. And it just like, I

00:53:50.909 --> 00:53:53.389
always, obviously there's, you can, there's good

00:53:53.389 --> 00:53:54.989
critique and you can always give critique and

00:53:54.989 --> 00:53:56.750
that's not a bad thing. I just, I'm always so

00:53:56.750 --> 00:54:02.130
nervous to like dismiss the effort when it's

00:54:02.130 --> 00:54:05.429
like, oh, it's so, it's so scary as a student

00:54:05.429 --> 00:54:08.019
to be in that position. Oh yeah. Especially because

00:54:08.019 --> 00:54:12.360
– I remember my first – I don't know. I remember

00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:16.159
my first time I ever presented a poster. It was

00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:20.539
at the ABAs, the American Association of Biological

00:54:20.539 --> 00:54:29.340
Anthropologists. It was on secular change and

00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:36.380
the length and breadth of the arm, of the bones

00:54:36.380 --> 00:54:43.400
of the arm. And at the ABAs, you have two times

00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:46.739
you have to present, or you did then. This was

00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:50.460
in Knoxville. You did then. The first time I

00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:54.079
was supposed to be there, I didn't show up. I

00:54:54.079 --> 00:54:57.599
was so scared. I didn't show up. I was just,

00:54:57.639 --> 00:55:00.480
this is trash. I don't want to present it. I

00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:04.739
don't want to be there. I hung it up, but I didn't

00:55:04.739 --> 00:55:10.690
show up. I was terrified that anybody would come

00:55:10.690 --> 00:55:14.849
up and speak to me during the second round. It

00:55:14.849 --> 00:55:17.949
took a good two or three posters before I started

00:55:17.949 --> 00:55:22.510
getting comfortable with that. And it took until

00:55:22.510 --> 00:55:32.510
Seattle in 2022 when I was, it was when I got

00:55:32.510 --> 00:55:35.590
promoted to being a fellow. that I got comfortable

00:55:35.590 --> 00:55:40.429
being up there on stage doing a podium presentation.

00:55:41.309 --> 00:55:43.630
And that was because I said to myself when I

00:55:43.630 --> 00:55:46.710
got up there, I'm equal to everyone in this room.

00:55:47.409 --> 00:55:52.630
And that's what it took. And so I do get it.

00:55:52.650 --> 00:55:59.989
Trust me, I get it. So I try to, when I critique

00:55:59.989 --> 00:56:07.489
with students, I don't try to be harsh. Yeah.

00:56:07.570 --> 00:56:12.070
I don't want to be harsh. Right. A lot of times

00:56:12.070 --> 00:56:14.050
I don't think they would even think I was critiquing.

00:56:14.449 --> 00:56:16.989
Good. That's a good way to critique, though.

00:56:19.449 --> 00:56:24.789
It's more trying to drag out, you know, ask them

00:56:24.789 --> 00:56:28.690
questions to drag out and let them think. Right.

00:56:28.769 --> 00:56:34.690
Think. Think. So that's kind of how I do it.

00:56:34.750 --> 00:56:37.849
Yeah. No, that's, that's good. I, I just know

00:56:37.849 --> 00:56:41.010
that's not. That's not how everybody does. Yeah.

00:56:41.150 --> 00:56:44.610
And there are some people I know that it's just.

00:56:46.010 --> 00:56:50.329
Yeah. It's rough sometimes, but. If I could be

00:56:50.329 --> 00:56:56.050
physically abusive, I would. Okay. You are, you

00:56:56.050 --> 00:56:59.110
are, you are being mean to these people. Slap.

00:57:02.750 --> 00:57:06.269
Yeah. I say, well, we're coming up on that hour

00:57:06.269 --> 00:57:10.630
mark. Does anyone have any? Oh, go, go, go. Yes.

00:57:10.630 --> 00:57:13.010
I think it's really important that we highlight

00:57:13.010 --> 00:57:15.769
the accomplishment of some of our wonderful committees

00:57:15.769 --> 00:57:20.670
that we had this year. And then also I want to,

00:57:20.670 --> 00:57:23.090
you know, I think every, all of the collaborators

00:57:23.090 --> 00:57:24.989
and the organizers for the forensic anthropology

00:57:24.989 --> 00:57:27.750
meeting, like that's a lot of work. It was a

00:57:27.750 --> 00:57:31.369
great. Great time, good discussion, but we also

00:57:31.369 --> 00:57:35.170
had a couple of good committee -level events.

00:57:35.610 --> 00:57:39.309
The Outreach, Engagement, Recruitment, and Retention,

00:57:39.449 --> 00:57:42.010
I might have split one of those ours, committee,

00:57:42.250 --> 00:57:46.489
they hosted a historic black cemetery cleanup

00:57:46.489 --> 00:57:49.510
in coordination with some of the community members

00:57:49.510 --> 00:57:53.239
at Holt Cemetery. That was, I think, a real good

00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:56.420
turnout. I'm not on that committee, but I was

00:57:56.420 --> 00:57:59.639
there. I am on that committee. I was unable to

00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:04.960
make it to that event, but it was well attended,

00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:12.159
and I think it was an extremely important event.

00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:15.219
It's one of the things that our committee is

00:58:15.219 --> 00:58:18.340
trying to do. It's the first time we've done

00:58:18.340 --> 00:58:21.210
this, and we're trying to do it. Going forward,

00:58:21.289 --> 00:58:27.210
it's the outreach part. We believe strongly that

00:58:27.210 --> 00:58:33.989
we need to give back to the cities and the communities

00:58:33.989 --> 00:58:37.630
that host the American Academy of Forensic Sciences

00:58:37.630 --> 00:58:41.409
conference. Yeah. No, I really wish I would have.

00:58:41.449 --> 00:58:46.130
I had signed up for the 5K and I'd already paid

00:58:46.130 --> 00:58:48.590
the dues. We were competing. We were competing

00:58:48.590 --> 00:58:51.750
with the 5K. I passed everyone on my way out

00:58:51.750 --> 00:58:55.650
of the hotel. But hey, we all got rained on.

00:58:55.789 --> 00:59:01.429
So the 5Kers and us, we all got rained on. But

00:59:01.429 --> 00:59:04.989
no, I really loved that event. I think it's really

00:59:04.989 --> 00:59:07.670
impactful. And it was great to have a community

00:59:07.670 --> 00:59:11.429
member or leader there to give us an introduction

00:59:11.429 --> 00:59:15.880
to... the site, the history, what it means to

00:59:15.880 --> 00:59:20.159
people, how it formed, why it's in its, you know,

00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:24.199
current state, not only like disrepair, I don't

00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:26.199
want to say stay, I mean, like it's to our context,

00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:29.659
how then that context has changed over, you know,

00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:32.820
even their generation. So I really, I really

00:59:32.820 --> 00:59:36.699
loved that experience. And then the Community

00:59:36.699 --> 00:59:40.769
Connections Committee that Ashley has served

00:59:40.769 --> 00:59:46.829
her current final term. I know, but we love everything

00:59:46.829 --> 00:59:49.650
that you did for us. And I'm sure Pam will put

00:59:49.650 --> 00:59:53.369
in a nice little, I don't know, what is it? Ad

00:59:53.369 --> 01:00:02.190
hoc position for people. I am sort of serving.

01:00:02.190 --> 01:00:08.119
It's not a, not sort of as an ex officio. position

01:00:08.119 --> 01:00:14.780
on the on the committee um that's that's what

01:00:14.780 --> 01:00:21.920
i'm doing right now um and yeah just trying to

01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:25.719
trying to stay involved as i can but i have served

01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:31.780
my uh three years on that committee so we had

01:00:31.780 --> 01:00:36.690
a very good turnout at our talk with the head

01:00:36.690 --> 01:00:43.170
of the crime lab. Dr. Shamika Kelly came out

01:00:43.170 --> 01:00:50.630
and gave us a... It was a very good talk on how

01:00:50.630 --> 01:00:57.289
the crime lab has rebuilt and reconfigured after

01:00:57.289 --> 01:01:03.010
Katrina. Yeah. And another great example of...

01:01:03.210 --> 01:01:06.469
what strong and effective management gets you

01:01:06.469 --> 01:01:12.150
in places. She was such a powerful leader and

01:01:12.150 --> 01:01:16.130
you could tell from how she spoke about the staff

01:01:16.130 --> 01:01:18.929
that, you know, work at the crime lab and how

01:01:18.929 --> 01:01:22.769
they were also there to see her talk and how

01:01:22.769 --> 01:01:25.349
engaged they were with her conversation and just

01:01:25.349 --> 01:01:28.469
how much she built up her community and the whole

01:01:28.469 --> 01:01:32.360
lab really from, you know. technician up. I just

01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:34.000
thought that's really, I thought it was really

01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:35.960
impactful. I thought it was really forward thinking.

01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:41.800
And I think how better to talk about like a community

01:01:41.800 --> 01:01:44.300
connections committee than by having someone

01:01:44.300 --> 01:01:47.199
who recognizes that community exists and even

01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:51.980
those like local job levels. And I really, I

01:01:51.980 --> 01:01:54.139
really loved that talk. I thought it was super

01:01:54.139 --> 01:01:56.460
great. And it was just a good little way to round

01:01:56.460 --> 01:02:01.869
out a Tuesday evening. Even though they put us

01:02:01.869 --> 01:02:06.570
completely in another building. They did. We

01:02:06.570 --> 01:02:09.949
did get good nosh. We did get good nosh that

01:02:09.949 --> 01:02:17.429
time. True. So with that, we all want to thank

01:02:17.429 --> 01:02:25.050
everyone for listening. Our next episode will

01:02:25.050 --> 01:02:29.590
release at the end of March. It will be with

01:02:29.590 --> 01:02:32.929
Teba Brown from the Innocence Project. We'll

01:02:32.929 --> 01:02:36.409
be discussing how forensic science can be used

01:02:36.409 --> 01:02:43.590
in both evil ways as well as ways to exonerate

01:02:43.590 --> 01:02:49.170
the wrongfully convicted. I appreciate y 'all

01:02:49.170 --> 01:02:53.530
both being here to talk about AFS and everything.

01:02:54.510 --> 01:02:56.469
Cause y 'all got to, you know, give me insight

01:02:56.469 --> 01:02:58.769
on some of the talks that I missed. That's, that's

01:02:58.769 --> 01:03:00.610
my, that's always my one complaint about apps

01:03:00.610 --> 01:03:02.429
is I'm like, oh, but I want to go to both sessions

01:03:02.429 --> 01:03:05.869
and I can't do everything. And that was, that

01:03:05.869 --> 01:03:12.530
was, this was the first year in three years where

01:03:12.530 --> 01:03:15.869
we had two sessions going on simultaneously.

01:03:16.070 --> 01:03:18.510
Oh, one last question before all we, before we

01:03:18.510 --> 01:03:21.969
all leave, where was the best food y 'all had

01:03:21.969 --> 01:03:27.519
while down there? Oh, you know, honestly, it

01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:33.820
was this taco joint in Algiers that I went to.

01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:37.880
I got in on Sunday because I had a whole slew

01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:40.860
of commitments the entire week. So I got in really

01:03:40.860 --> 01:03:44.280
early and I had dinner. It's called Barracuda

01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:47.860
Taco Stand in Algiers. It was a quick ride over

01:03:47.860 --> 01:03:51.559
the Mississippi. I had some really great tacos

01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:56.119
with a mezcal margarita. And then I just continued

01:03:56.119 --> 01:03:59.300
to eat my way through Algiers. I think I also

01:03:59.300 --> 01:04:01.960
had some cannoli, some arancinis, some bar snacks.

01:04:02.300 --> 01:04:06.840
It was awesome. Not Cajun food, I know, but it

01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:16.059
was a really good fish taco. I was going to say,

01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:18.239
weirdly enough, I feel like I hardly ate down

01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:20.400
there because there was no time for anything.

01:04:24.199 --> 01:04:28.099
I went out with, well, one day for lunch, we

01:04:28.099 --> 01:04:32.659
went to Mother's. That was really good. And then

01:04:32.659 --> 01:04:36.420
I think it was Friday. Taylor and I went to brunch

01:04:36.420 --> 01:04:38.199
at Two Chicks right near the convention center.

01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:43.659
That was very good. The three dozen oysters I've

01:04:43.659 --> 01:04:45.920
split with my advisor were also pretty good.

01:04:45.980 --> 01:04:49.719
That's high on the list. I'm trying, I don't

01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:53.500
remember the place, but. Thomas, you may remember,

01:04:53.619 --> 01:04:56.760
it was the Taqueria place that we went to with

01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:04.019
Amy Michael and Mari Issa and Taylor. That was

01:05:04.019 --> 01:05:07.619
phenomenal Taquerias. Their food was good. They

01:05:07.619 --> 01:05:10.300
were really good. And it was a pleasant night.

01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:12.019
You couldn't have asked for a more pleasant night

01:05:12.019 --> 01:05:16.460
that night. Nice. It was outside. I don't think

01:05:16.460 --> 01:05:18.639
there was any indoor seating. Same as Periputa,

01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:21.360
by the way. And it was just... Beautiful way

01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:27.760
to spend an evening. The only drawback was the

01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:32.380
benches were made of brick. And so I had to sit

01:05:32.380 --> 01:05:36.699
like I was Caesar with my legs crossed. They

01:05:36.699 --> 01:05:39.860
were a little uncomfortable. This is true. But

01:05:39.860 --> 01:05:44.380
the food was phenomenal. I don't know, Stephanie,

01:05:44.500 --> 01:05:47.670
where are your local insights? I'd say my favorite

01:05:47.670 --> 01:05:50.070
place, there's a, it's a bar called Aaron Rose,

01:05:50.289 --> 01:05:52.130
but in the, it's, like, a little hole -in -the

01:05:52.130 --> 01:05:55.210
-wall bar, but in the back of the bar, there's

01:05:55.210 --> 01:05:59.949
a po 'boy, like, restaurant that, like, you literally

01:05:59.949 --> 01:06:03.150
get the po 'boy through a hole in the wall, and

01:06:03.150 --> 01:06:08.090
it feels, this is gonna sound probably, like,

01:06:08.210 --> 01:06:10.750
it feels questionable, but it is the best po

01:06:10.750 --> 01:06:14.449
'boys, and that is, like, my go -to place. I

01:06:14.449 --> 01:06:17.630
love. Love eating there. And then you get a beer

01:06:17.630 --> 01:06:20.949
because you're at a bar too, which is nice. Yeah,

01:06:20.949 --> 01:06:25.389
that's usually my go -to. I will say this. I

01:06:25.389 --> 01:06:29.590
do think the entire anthropology section shut

01:06:29.590 --> 01:06:32.769
down Ghost Bar. We drank everything out of Ghost

01:06:32.769 --> 01:06:38.070
Bar that night. Probably true. From what I heard,

01:06:38.150 --> 01:06:42.489
it's probably true. Real last question. Best

01:06:42.489 --> 01:06:47.219
parade, which one? oh i was there till i actually

01:06:47.219 --> 01:06:49.119
left on mardi gras i extended my trip a little

01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:56.000
bit oh nice nice um so let's see maybe sauce

01:06:56.000 --> 01:07:00.159
like yeah that was good or bacchus bacchus was

01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:05.940
great yeah for the muses yeah yeah i wanted the

01:07:05.940 --> 01:07:09.119
shoes so bad i didn't catch any shoes but muses

01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:11.920
was pretty good I really enjoyed that. I don't

01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:13.739
know how people can stand out there for a whole

01:07:13.739 --> 01:07:16.340
parade the entire time. Just for them, I was

01:07:16.340 --> 01:07:20.719
there for like an hour and I left. You just get

01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:22.260
real drunk and then you don't notice. That's

01:07:22.260 --> 01:07:25.940
the Louisiana way to do most things, if I'm honest.

01:07:26.579 --> 01:07:34.539
I go off Louisiana. I sadly did not do the parades

01:07:34.539 --> 01:07:38.260
this year. I did them last time. I did not do

01:07:38.260 --> 01:07:42.980
them this time. I did get assaulted and mauled

01:07:42.980 --> 01:07:49.320
by debutantes. Yeah. I left Ghost Bar that evening.

01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:52.519
Everybody went to the parade. I went back to

01:07:52.519 --> 01:07:55.519
the hotel and there was a debutante ball that

01:07:55.519 --> 01:07:58.119
was just starting up and they had all the limos

01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:03.840
pull up and buses pull up and all these either

01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:09.949
late teen, early twenties, young Women come out

01:08:09.949 --> 01:08:14.429
with their Swarovski crystal tiaras and furs.

01:08:15.949 --> 01:08:19.350
And I just looked out of place in my near pajamas.

01:08:19.970 --> 01:08:22.689
I want to dress like that every day of my life.

01:08:24.729 --> 01:08:28.470
Say you got to do it. I would. I mean, not any

01:08:28.470 --> 01:08:30.529
time recently since I have lived out of Louisiana

01:08:30.529 --> 01:08:34.479
for 10 years, I guess now, but. You gotta do

01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:38.020
the parades. I was a queen in a Mardi Gras pageant.

01:08:38.079 --> 01:08:45.000
You gotta do it all. Go off. Alright, well, we

01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:48.619
can wrap that up unless y 'all have any final

01:08:48.619 --> 01:08:52.359
chit -chats about AFS. Shout out to the AFS pigeon.

01:08:53.020 --> 01:08:56.319
Shout out to the AFS pigeon. Honestly, I want

01:08:56.319 --> 01:08:59.000
to get a t -shirt with just the pigeon to just

01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:02.119
be like, I care about the DEI award, actually.

01:09:02.810 --> 01:09:06.649
We should make them and sell them. Next year.

01:09:06.710 --> 01:09:10.710
All right. Ongoing Ass Pigeon merch. Let's go.

01:09:11.869 --> 01:09:16.489
Next year, for any student or anyone who is listening

01:09:16.489 --> 01:09:21.989
that is interested, the Academy will be in Orlando,

01:09:22.250 --> 01:09:30.409
Florida at the Rosen Shingles Creek Resort. Yeah.

01:09:30.529 --> 01:09:35.369
But still. Be prepared to walk because it is

01:09:35.369 --> 01:09:39.590
a resort out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah,

01:09:39.670 --> 01:09:41.789
it's far from all the grocery stores and stuff

01:09:41.789 --> 01:09:45.630
for sure. I've heard it has decent restaurants,

01:09:45.850 --> 01:09:50.069
so good luck with that. And the Mexican restaurant

01:09:50.069 --> 01:09:52.630
does make the guacamole right there by your table.

01:09:52.970 --> 01:09:59.090
It does. It does. But... We will say goodnight

01:09:59.090 --> 01:10:02.340
to you all and I will see you all In Florida.

01:10:02.539 --> 01:10:08.039
Yes. See y 'all next time. Bye, everyone.