13
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:45,000
I just want to say welcome everyone, my name is Stephanie, I'm here with Ashley and Jenna and we are at the Bone Club.

14
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:54,000
Last month we talked a bit about schools and a little bit about what brought us into anthropology

15
00:00:54,000 --> 00:01:00,000
and what jobs and different things, just kind of what we've talked about in the last couple episodes.

16
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:09,000
This episode we really wanted to focus on field schools and conferences because that is a really big part of how we get to meet other people within the field

17
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:16,000
because it is a really small field and we're kind of spread across not only the US but Canada and other countries.

18
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:22,000
And so conferences and field schools are a really good way to bring the entire field together.

19
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,000
And so we just wanted to talk a little bit about that.

20
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:38,000
To start off I really just wanted to say that field schools and conferences are both not only ways to meet people but really learn what you enjoy about forensic anthropology

21
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:44,000
because as you kind of have heard from the past couple episodes and if you haven't watched it go listen.

22
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:52,000
But there really is a large variety of interest in the field of forensic anthropology.

23
00:01:52,000 --> 00:02:06,000
And so you can go to conferences that are about something as specific as forensic anthropology and like bone anatomy, or you can go and do a dentistry conference if you're really into teeth.

24
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:19,000
And they have toponomy conferences and different things like that and so you can really find your niche and what you really enjoy about forensic anthropology and field schools can do that as well we're like, not everyone might like to do the field work

25
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:33,000
they might only want to do lab work and that's okay too, and field schools can really give you that opportunity to advance your education but also figure out what you really enjoy about forensic anthropology and kind of the path you want to take.

26
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:44,000
I guess my first question to Ashley and Jenna is mainly just what conferences have you all attended and can you give me a little rundown of those conferences.

27
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:50,000
Yeah, so for me I, I attend conferences, white regularly.

28
00:02:50,000 --> 00:03:04,000
I am an annual fixture and have been at since about 2011 to both the American Academy of Forensic Sciences conference, as well as the American Association of Biological Anthropologists.

29
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:19,000
I've also attended regularly, the Canadian Association of Biological Anthropologists, and have attended the American Association of Forensic Science, as well as

30
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,000
the American Association of Bone and Mineral Research.

31
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:35,000
So, have a number of conferences and then this coming March I'm attending the American Anatomical Association's conference where I'm giving a presentation there.

32
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:42,000
For me, conferences are an annual fixture.

33
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:54,000
I actually have not attended any conferences, the way that my life is going and my finances were going at the, while I was in my graduate studies, didn't quite allow me to do that.

34
00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:08,000
However, now that I'm all finished up I'm excited to start looking into them. And so I myself am excited to hear from the two of you, how this all works out and which ones to go to and how to get involved.

35
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:19,000
Great. Yeah, I mean I think that's one thing that, you know, someone who might be new to the field or even just like interested in maybe wanting to be a part of the field.

36
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,000
I think conferences, while yes, as Jenna said can be very expensive.

37
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:33,000
I think they really do give you a good opportunity to figure out where you want to be, and if this is the field for you.

38
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:53,000
And so, I know there are a bunch of different conferences that you can attend. But most of, if not all of them have opportunities for, especially students to have like student discounts, and you can work together with the community of students

39
00:04:53,000 --> 00:05:06,000
and have the apology to go to go have these on a hotel or stay at brothel, not brothels. Wow, that is the wrong word you can cut that out. Hostels is what I was trying to say.

40
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,000
So you can stay at hostels.

41
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:15,000
I know I've done that before when I was in grad school just a cheap bed, and just to get there.

42
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:24,000
You can also look at regional conferences because it can be very expensive to travel nationwide or internationally but a lot of.

43
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:29,000
There are a lot of like very regional conferences that you can attend that are a little bit cheaper.

44
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:35,000
And then that can give you a foothold into maybe going into a bigger conference later down the line.

45
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:41,000
I personally have only ever gone to ask which is the American Academy of Forensic Sciences.

46
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:53,000
And it just happened to be that that was the first conference that I wanted to go to was an hour away from my hometown so it made it really simple I stayed at my grandma's, you know, is all cheap.

47
00:05:53,000 --> 00:06:07,000
I was definitely very very lost my first meeting, I knew very little about forensic anthropology. I ended up walking into a workshop that I did not pay for.

48
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,000
If you're a very afts, please don't make me pay now.

49
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,000
This 2017.

50
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,000
It was.

51
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,000
Yeah, New Orleans 2017.

52
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:38,000
Yeah, I had. I went because it was really close to my hometown and so I was like, I'll go see what it's all about, not realizing that a majority of like the conference conferences that aren't like extra money to go to workshops and stuff are like the Wednesday to Friday, and I showed up on the Monday,

53
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:53,000
walking around trying to figure out anything because I was so lost, as I feel like many students are on their first conferences, and I walked by so assigned that was talking about body farms and I was like, how super cool because I had only, you know, just learned

54
00:06:53,000 --> 00:07:10,000
what anthropology was. And it's like, I want to know more about body farms how fantastic walked in sat down. No one else was in the room. My ignorant behind decided to sit in the head to the chair.

55
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:27,000
So I was at the end of the table. Everyone walked in thought I was someone important, and I was definitely not I knew nothing about anything. And when you know went through the whole workshop, asked so many questions because I was just like, trying to take in as much information

56
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:38,000
as possible which I think is a really good thing to do at conferences, just to really try to just like embrace it all and try to learn and ask as many questions as you can.

57
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:53,000
And then, after the workshop ended. I met up with my advisor at the time, and she was like, So what have you been up to whatever whatever, and I was like, oh I went to this like thing about body farms and she was like, oh you paid for a workshop and I was

58
00:07:53,000 --> 00:08:11,000
like, no, no I didn't. I'm supposed to. My, my bad.

59
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:27,000
So, I guess just like advice for anyone who hasn't gone to conferences.

60
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:41,000
I mean, there's so many people, and then like names that you've read articles about and things like that that you just like never actually put a face to the name they've just been like this elusive person.

61
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:53,000
And then you like go up and you're like, Hi, I'm, you know, I'm Stephanie and they're like, Okay, because they're just a normal person too and they don't realize like how like idolized you had made them.

62
00:08:53,000 --> 00:09:10,000
And I definitely think that it's getting better. I know, at least for the conference that I usually go to, they've been trying to work more towards making it a more inclusive space in order to not have that like power dynamic of like the person

63
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,000
that's big and has published a lot versus students.

64
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:21,000
I do think that will always kind of be there, just a little bit because of academia.

65
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:26,000
But, it's no ass is getting better.

66
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:32,000
But if you really want to see a conference where that dynamic is not there.

67
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:40,000
The American Association of Biological Anthropologists really has it down perfectly.

68
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:51,000
AFS still has a rather large contingent of people that believes that it's not for students.

69
00:09:51,000 --> 00:10:10,000
It's getting better. There's a lot of, I don't want to say younger people, but in essence younger people, early career mid career individuals that are fighting hard just to make it a student friendly place.

70
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:21,000
So are there conferences, say there are people who are listening who are not students and who are not planning on being students but are super fascinated by anthropology or forensic anthropology or forensic science in general.

71
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:32,000
Are there conferences that somebody who's just a lay person or someone who's an aspiring student or somebody who's already graduated could go and feel comfortable with attending?

72
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:45,000
Yes, actually there are. There are a number of regional conferences that are a little bit more open to outsiders.

73
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,000
AFS is not.

74
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,000
Okay.

75
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,000
If you had to recommend one, what would you pick?

76
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:58,000
If I have to recommend if you are a...

77
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:12,000
Well, it depends. If you are a student, you're already a student, even if you're just an undergraduate student with a passing interest in forensic anthropology or forensic science in general.

78
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:22,000
I would, if you have a contingent of other students with you, I would go to the American Academy of Forensic Sciences.

79
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:36,000
If you are more interested, if you're not sure what area of anthropology you want to go to, I would recommend the American Association of Biological Anthropologists.

80
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,000
Right.

81
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:45,000
Or if you're in Canada, the CABAs, the Canadian Association of Biological Anthropologists.

82
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:56,000
Both AABAs and CABAs are very student friendly. You get a wide range of what anthropology is.

83
00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:13,000
AABAs also has a lot of different affiliated societies. For example, one of the sort of mini conferences I go to when I'm at the AABAs is the Paleopathology Association, EPAs.

84
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:21,000
So that's sort of a conference within a conference and it's just on paleopathology and trauma.

85
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:33,000
So if you're a student and you're not sure what your niche is, what area you want to study, then I would go to the AABAs.

86
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:45,000
If you're sure you want to study forensic science, if you're sure you are a grad student in the forensic anthropology program, I would go to AAFS.

87
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,000
I definitely would go to AAFS.

88
00:12:47,000 --> 00:13:07,000
Yeah, I think a lot of the field, especially the forensic part of our field, really puts AAFS on a pedestal a little bit where if you want to be someone in the field, you're generally a part of AFS.

89
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:12,000
Now, it shouldn't necessarily be that way, but I do think that's kind of how the field is.

90
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:27,000
It is changing rapidly. One thing that needs to be said is that there have been a lot of grumblings, a lot of really bad grumblings about AAFS and the politics within AAFS.

91
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,000
What's going on behind the scenes.

92
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:38,000
And I think another opportunity that you could potentially look at if you're trying to get into the field, trying to learn something about the field, just trying to meet some people,

93
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:48,000
but maybe you don't have the funds to travel, or you don't have the time to take off a whole week for a conference.

94
00:13:48,000 --> 00:14:00,000
There's also smaller conferences. I know SOFA kind of does some, which is the Society of Forensic Anthropologists, that they usually tack on to either AABAs or AAFS.

95
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,000
That's just like a one day situation.

96
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:13,000
And then there's also, it started last year and they're doing another one this year. It's just like a forensic anthropology conference that is free.

97
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:27,000
And it is online as well. So if you're someone who can't travel or you're choosing not to because of whatever reason, that could be a really good opportunity to not only meet a couple other people within the field, because it's definitely a smaller type of conference

98
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:45,000
because it's relatively new, but to meet some people and to learn something about forensic anthropology from a group of people who really thought that having a more accessible type of conference was necessary, which I think does lend to it being a more inclusive space

99
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:58,000
in order to have, you know, a student who doesn't know anything walk up and be able to ask those questions without feeling scared of like saying the wrong thing to the wrong person or whatever.

100
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:09,000
I also think it's really good where this is slightly off topic from conferences, but it can really give you a good idea of what conferences people are planning on going to.

101
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:31,000
There are quite a few different, like Facebook groups or slack communities or things like that that you can meet with other students, or just other people within the field and kind of ask those questions like, who's going to which conference or I'm going to ask, does anyone want to share a room so we can split it and you know whatever.

102
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:41,000
And there's definitely those opportunities I know there's a student forum on the on Facebook, and I think there's an early career forum as well.

103
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:54,000
So you can really get more into the field and seeing where conferences are, or even field schools to you know it's a space to ask a lot of questions about all of those types of things to make you feel less isolated.

104
00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:05,000
If you're, you know, the lone person from your school or someone who's not a part of a school going to these types of conferences you can meet up, or at least chat with some people beforehand.

105
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:16,000
My recommendation for conferences is also to usually conferences will post what posters and presentations and stuff are happening beforehand.

106
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:24,000
So you can reach out to those authors individually usually there's like a email correspondence or something like that that you can reach out to them.

107
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:40,000
That way, you kind of have a dialogue already open so then when you go to the conference you can be like, hey, I'm Stephanie I'm the one that emailed you about x y z, and then you don't feel necessarily ask scared to have those interactions because it can be very daunting

108
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:57,000
to go to conferences. And that's coming from someone like me who is ridiculously outgoing and showed up at the conference by myself. So, like, I definitely think there are ways you can go and do conferences and it be less intimidating.

109
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:10,000
Yeah, I would say, I don't know actually if you have any tips and tricks for conferences to make it less intimidating or less. I don't know.

110
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,000
For me, is go with a group.

111
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:27,000
If you are in a cohort of, you know, even just four or five people try to go to pick a conference between you all and go as a single group.

112
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:34,000
But I really do think you need to go to a conference you need to see what sort of research is going on.

113
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,000
What is being talked about in the field.

114
00:17:38,000 --> 00:18:06,000
Because what you have to remember is looking at, pick a journal, any journal, in a given year, they may have, with the exception of the journal Forensic Anthropology, they may have five or six, maybe up to 10 forensic anthropology articles, articles directly related to them.

115
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:16,000
When you go to the conference, you have dozens, depending upon the conference that you go to, sometimes even hundreds.

116
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,000
So at AFS, you're looking at hundreds of papers.

117
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:27,000
So you get a wide breadth of what the field is researching and how they are researching.

118
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:32,000
Right. Rather than what you get out of a journal.

119
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:37,000
Yeah.

120
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:50,000
I also think that like, looking at those types of like papers and like really that breadth of knowledge that is coming out of conferences. A lot of those don't end up getting published, because maybe, you know, it's a very small.

121
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,000
I'm so sorry if you can hear my dog she is squeaking all of her toys.

122
00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:11,000
But I think conferences, like show that breadth of knowledge that really is coming out of the field, where you might have a smaller project that like isn't quite enough to make a whole journal article about, or it would have been a technical note but someone, you know,

123
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,000
they decided they didn't feel like dealing with the publication process or whatever.

124
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:22,000
And it really gives you a nightmare in its of itself. Right. We can maybe talk about that next month.

125
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:31,000
But it's definitely an opportunity to just broaden your horizons a bit. I know when I go to ask at least.

126
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:50,000
I mean I love listening to all the forensic anthropology things, but I like going to the dentistry talks or the pathology talks or things like that, where you really learn kind of how forensic anthropology, and how like our field can be used and other

127
00:19:50,000 --> 00:20:07,000
fields and like what other fields are interested in learning as well. Because, I mean, I know we talked about this before but like anthropology really is such a broad sweeping topic that knowing how you fit into that broader system is really important, and

128
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:18,000
then can help you decide what type of research you want to do or if maybe you'll talk to someone you ask a question they're like, I never thought about that let's do research together.

129
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:32,000
I know I personally literally this morning got an email from someone in London that was like, I'm coming to ask and I saw your poster and I noticed that you did x y z and I really want to talk with you do you mind meeting up one day.

130
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:38,000
And so just doing those types of things where I'm like, 100% I want more friends, why not, like.

131
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:48,000
And so I think, really just like stepping out of your comfort zone a little bit in that way can be really beneficial.

132
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:57,000
Definitely for just personal growth but also for career growth if that's if forensic anthropology is the career you want to go into.

133
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:09,000
So that kind of segues a little bit that career growth path to field schools as well which is the other topic we kind of wanted to discuss.

134
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:19,000
But I wanted to open up to make sure that if y'all had any other last minute thoughts about conferences or any questions, Jenna about what conferences are what they can do.

135
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
I'll open that up now.

136
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,000
Before we move on.

137
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:33,000
All of the like having a bunch of different options, the one day or the week long or the different options for what you're interested in if you're a student or not I think those are great.

138
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,000
And a lot of conferences.

139
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,000
They do have student discounts.

140
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:45,000
And they also have volunteer opportunities where your registration fee is covered.

141
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,000
And you volunteer for an afternoon.

142
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000
Yes.

143
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:57,000
I did that the year that I went to ask for, like to conduct my thesis research.

144
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:04,000
That's what I did I couldn't afford to go by myself because grad school is expensive and we're all broke right.

145
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:21,000
And so I volunteered to man the poster session which literally just meant.

146
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:35,000
$400 or whatever the registration was at that time that I didn't have to pay, just because I volunteered some of my time. So that can be a really good opportunity as well I'm glad you brought that up.

147
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,000
And so, to be a student to be a volunteer could anybody volunteer.

148
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:49,000
You need to be a student volunteer. It depends on the conference you go to but for the American Academy of forensic sciences you need to be a student volunteer.

149
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:57,000
Because I think there's, I know, at least within this last year and some of this might change.

150
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:11,000
There's some stipulations as far as like, what's a student what's not a student so like, I know you just were graduating Jenna so like I think your student affiliation last for like a year or something after you graduate.

151
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:28,000
And I look into what those stipulations are as well because I think, definitely, at least for apps for the forensic anthropology section we're trying to make it a little bit more inclusive doing our best, you know, change is slow moving as always but

152
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:36,000
trying to make it a little bit easier for people to to volunteer to show up to actually be a part of that community.

153
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:43,000
And logically I was in the heat of coven for much of my degree, so there were a lot of options.

154
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:59,000
Yeah, and I think, I think coven really did show a lot of conferences, how simple it could be to go virtual, where, which is kind of how this like forensic anthropology.

155
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:13,000
Like for like one day, a conference thing that I was talking about earlier, kind of came about where it's like, you can have a conference sure to meet in person if you're, you know, already at the conference because I think for friends again apologies like

156
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:22,000
the day, the Tuesday of apps. So it's like you can go in person if you want, but you can get just as much out virtually, and I think coded.

157
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:36,000
So obviously horrible and a lot of situations really did showcase how technology can make things so inclusive and accessible to a lot of people.

158
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:51,000
Yeah, so I guess we'll move on to that next topic for today's little podcast which is field schools. I know I personally haven't done a field school I'm trying to do one this summer I sent in my application so fingers crossed that I get in.

159
00:24:51,000 --> 00:25:07,000
So I kind of, I have lots of questions. Personally, but I guess I wanted to open it up to Ashley and Jenna because I know y'all both had said that you participated in a field school in some manner, so I wanted to open it up to y'all to kind of give your

160
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:12,000
thoughts on field schools and what field schools you've done and stuff like that.

161
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:20,000
Yeah, I think you want to start by with the difference between like academic related ones and then external.

162
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:32,000
Most of mine have been academic related ones I've, I've been a student and I've also been in sort of an instructor at TA, or our field schools.

163
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,000
But there's two different types.

164
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:43,000
One is, as you know, as Jenna said there's academic types, these are the ones that are associated internally within universities.

165
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:55,000
So, they're just like any other class, only they are compacted into a few weeks or into a month period rather than scattered throughout an entire semester.

166
00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:02,000
And they are what they say they are in the field, you are doing physical work in the field.

167
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:09,000
And then you have other sort of courses which are kind of like short courses they're also one month periods.

168
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:20,000
They're also affiliated with different universities and academic institutions, but they are open to the public almost if you will.

169
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:29,000
They're not limited to internally students associated with that university.

170
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:38,000
So it depends, they're both schools have benefits, both schools have some drawbacks, both schools cost a lot of money.

171
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:49,000
Not a lot, a lot of money, but they're not cheap either, depending upon if you're looking at a US or some other institution.

172
00:26:49,000 --> 00:27:06,000
But they are excellent ways to get to know the field, to get to know the, what field work is like, and including what that lab work is like.

173
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:14,000
And they're not just limited to forensic anthropology, you also have archaeology field schools, bioarchaeology field schools.

174
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:20,000
Most of the field schools are actually bioarch and other related sort of things.

175
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:29,000
But you can use those for internal things, for forensics as well.

176
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:39,000
One of my mentors and a good friend of mine, Dr. John Beathard, he runs a field school, I believe it's in Transylvania.

177
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:53,000
I believe that's where it is, on juvenile osteology that I highly recommend to people, hey, if you can take this field school, go do this field school, because it's a really good one.

178
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:59,000
Maybe we can post the link to some of these in our bio, in our episode bio.

179
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:07,000
I say we can definitely do that and I know we can post this link as well. There's a forensic anthropology community site, it's like a Google site.

180
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:22,000
We can definitely post the link to it. But there's a page within that website that lists a lot of, I guess, more well known field schools that happen, but also like if you are giving a field school

181
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:28,000
and it's not as well known or it's cheaper, because let's be real, we always want cheaper.

182
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:45,000
You can send the website has a Gmail link at the bottom that you can send and we'll update the website as needed with different conferences because that community site is really just a way to kind of disseminate information altogether.

183
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:53,000
Because a lot of times, field schools and even conferences and stuff, you know, they each have their own websites, which are very useful.

184
00:28:53,000 --> 00:29:06,000
But if you don't know what to look up, then you're kind of just lost. And so then you're just like Googling forensic anthropology school and you'll get so much information and it's a little hard to wrap your brain around them sometimes.

185
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:19,000
And I think that forensic anthropology community site does a good job of kind of condensing information to be like, this is what it is, this is where it is, here's the contact information if you want it all in one succinct location.

186
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:39,000
I know for myself, I happen to learn about the field school that I'm trying to, like I set my application for and we'll see if I get in, but I'm doing it kind of how Ash is saying is someone from the general public, kind of like I'm in the field but I'm not a student.

187
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:50,000
So I'll be essentially applying to that university as a non degree seeking student, like status, that way I can take this field school credit course.

188
00:29:50,000 --> 00:30:06,000
And you're not wrong, they can be very, very expensive, but I do think, at least most field schools try to do their best to try and limit how much their students have to pay because they're aware schools expensive travels expensive things like that.

189
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:19,000
And I know the field school that I'm looking into, while you have to pay for your credits, and you have to pay for your plane ticket over there. They give you a food stipend for the month that you're there and they give you the hotel that you're supposed to stay in.

190
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:33,000
And so they try to cut down on cost as best as possible for their students and so it really just kind of depends on the field school what kind of funding they have because, as we've kind of talked about in other in the other podcast, the field of

191
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:51,000
the field school is a little bit broke. So it's kind of hard to, you know, disseminate cheapness down to its students when you know the people that are running the field are also broke, but I do think we try our best to do a good job with that.

192
00:30:51,000 --> 00:31:11,000
And then you can also look into some closer field schools in your region, or potentially at your university itself that the field school is, you know, in the backyard of that university, so like you're not having to necessarily travel too far or whatever.

193
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:26,000
And then the other one that I'm trying to do is in Germany so that makes it definitely a little bit more expensive, because I am halfway across the world and why from there but it really just kind of depends what you're looking at and there's a lot of opportunity

194
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,000
for that.

195
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:45,000
And I think that's why I wanted to do this field school was because I haven't had the opportunity in my, you know, career path so far to do a lot of like long term field work. I've done some cultural resource management which essentially meant I was shovel bombing

196
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:58,000
and who doesn't know what that term is essentially you're digging a shovel size hole, both width and depth and hope to find something but generally don't find anything.

197
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:06,000
And so I really wanted to broaden my expertise as far as archaeology methods are concerned.

198
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,000
And I think field schools are a really good opportunity for that.

199
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:26,000
I think talking to people that have done feel like those specific field schools in the past are really important because some field schools kind of use their students like shovel bombs or just sifters, which, while it's still very good experience and looks

200
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:43,000
fantastic on a resume regardless. You don't learn as much in some field schools like that, but then there's other field schools that do a really good job of like making sure the students are learning each step and why we're doing things a certain way.

201
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:54,000
And I think, knowing the field school is important to try to gauge what you're actually going to get from the field school.

202
00:32:54,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Our field school is a really good one at the University of Toronto Mississauga.

203
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
The students.

204
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:09,000
It's an internal field school so you have to be a part of the UTM department to participate.

205
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:20,000
But basically in the short period part of the field school the students learn how to

206
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:32,000
search, excavate, recover, document, a whole set of human remains.

207
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:39,000
And then there's a lab component as well as to how do you process these remains.

208
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,000
What are some of the aspects of processing.

209
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:52,000
And with these field components with these field schools, you typically have both the lecture component, and then an infield component as well.

210
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,000
So it's not just, hey, here you go.

211
00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:00,000
You actually learn how to do this stuff.

212
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:09,000
Yeah, you will never learn more than you will in those few weeks, especially in the program that's offered at the University of Toronto Mississauga.

213
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:19,000
There's something about learning things in a textbook and then being thrown into kind of the field and being your own kind of guide.

214
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:25,000
You have to be the one who makes all the decisions and it's you'll never learn more than in a field school, I would say.

215
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:38,000
Yeah, that was, I know for me that's kind of one of the things that I'm hoping to get the most out of, because I am someone who does not learn well via textbook.

216
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:44,000
It is just I could read the page 100 times and be like, sure, that made sense.

217
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,000
And then someone asked me a question and I know nothing.

218
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:54,000
And so I'm, I'm very much a tactile learner and just like have to be physically active in doing the thing.

219
00:34:54,000 --> 00:35:00,000
And so, field schools for me was that like wanting to get that out of it.

220
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:12,000
I guess one of my major questions is for someone looking into doing a field school or thinking, oh, maybe I want to do some type of field work.

221
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:26,000
What are some tips and tricks, y'all have, as far as like preparing yourself, because not many people every day do nine 10 hours of manual labor every day.

222
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:46,000
I guess just like, what, what did y'all do to prepare, and then like, now that you've, you know, on the other side of the field school like things that you wish you would have done to prepare for field schools, because I have all the questions.

223
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:51,000
For me, I would say, if I could do it over again.

224
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,000
I would hit the gym.

225
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,000
I did the field school.

226
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,000
I would definitely hit the gym a few weeks before.

227
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,000
It's not so much lifting weights.

228
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:12,000
But you need that physical exertion.

229
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,000
Yeah, your body, your body goes through some things.

230
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,000
And that physical exertion.

231
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,000
That would be the biggest thing.

232
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:34,000
Honestly, as far as preparing yourself for mentally and academically.

233
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:40,000
There are some things that you can do to read up and just make sure you know what you're talking about and whatnot.

234
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:46,000
But the truth is, like I said, you're going to get the lecture, you're going to get that no matter what.

235
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:51,000
So it doesn't matter if you come in with a lot of knowledge or if you come in with none.

236
00:36:51,000 --> 00:37:01,000
But you do need to be physically ready to participate.

237
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:06,000
Because your body will ache.

238
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,000
And you will be exhausted. And you will, when it goes for so many days straight, like you don't get to recover.

239
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,000
You don't get to rest. Your body just has to keep taking it.

240
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:26,000
And also prepare yourself to, I don't want to say lose friends, but get close to the brink.

241
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:38,000
Because it is such hard work. And you are sort of working with people, personalities clash like you wouldn't imagine.

242
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:53,000
And the number of times I've been sort of a field demonstrator, been one of these teaching assistants for our field school since 2014.

243
00:37:53,000 --> 00:38:08,000
And I've worked with groups that have really close friendships. And by the end of the week, they're not even speaking to each other.

244
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Now, a few weeks later, they're back to being best friends again.

245
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:24,000
And it's just, you have to get in there and recognize personalities will clash, particularly when it's really hot.

246
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:30,000
And everybody's tired and exhausted from working out.

247
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:35,000
So don't take anything personal.

248
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:43,000
I think if the one lesson that I would take from it in terms of how can you be prepared, you really can't fully be.

249
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:51,000
And as a recovering perfectionist, I wanted to be perfectly prepared. And you can't be.

250
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,000
And things are going to go wrong. And you're going to forget things.

251
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:07,000
And you just have to be ready to forgive yourself, move forward every day, as Tlazzo would say, be a goldfish, forget in 30 seconds and just move on to the next thing.

252
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:13,000
Try not to be totally stressed out the whole time and try to have fun with it because at the end of the day, you can't be fully prepared.

253
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:19,000
And that's kind of the point. Like you're going into it to learn. And so just be prepared to learn.

254
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:30,000
I think that's what I would. Going from the student to the teaching assistant, that was a big thing that I had so much more fun as a teaching assistant because I took the pressure off myself.

255
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,000
And I already knew what was coming for me and for the students.

256
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:43,000
But yeah, you can never be 100% prepared. And that's okay, I think is the big lesson that I should I would have taken.

257
00:39:43,000 --> 00:40:02,000
No, I like I like that. I am. I'm with you on the recovering perfectionist thing because talking to like my friends that I'm like trying to tell them that I'm trying to do this field school I'm trying to do this this this this and this and they're just like, just go, and I was like, I can't just go.

258
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:16,000
So I definitely. That's, it's good advice. Who knows how much I'll listen to it because I know myself, but do my best to listen to recovering. We're recovering. We're not there yet.

259
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:37,000
And then I guess another question that I had as far as like field schools are concerned, is like, was after doing the field schools for both of y'all. Did you find that you enjoyed it like did you find you enjoyed field work, or was that like a sign for you to be like

260
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:56,000
nah lab works it that's all I want. Because that's kind of like I did some CRM which is field work, but it was, you know, you go work and then you go sit in a hotel and you'll be fine and it's a week long at a time, at least all the projects that I did so like, it was never too exhausting

261
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:13,000
and to like I don't know, anything too pressurized I guess for myself. But now I'm at the point like in my career where I'm like, I want to do field work I want to go do these excavations and I want to go do whatever and I'm like, actually do I, I don't, I don't know, I've never done it.

262
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:22,000
So, I'm hoping this field school will give me that clarity but I guess I was just wondering, did y'all find you liked it.

263
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:34,000
Oh yeah I love it. I love all of it. I also I have a restaurant background so I'm used to my body just hating me for abusing it for hours on end.

264
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:42,000
And it's there are days when you hate it because you're not getting anything. So there's no like reward at the end of it there's no like little dopamine spike that you get because you found something.

265
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:53,000
And there's days when you're just like this is so frustrating because you just keep busting. And so I would say lab work is more like consistently rewarding.

266
00:41:53,000 --> 00:42:01,000
But on those, at those moments when you do get something it's like, yeah.

267
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,000
How about you Ashley.

268
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:12,000
It's both it's. Yeah, you, you love it, but you love it at the end.

269
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:22,000
In the beginning, you are gung ho you're ready to go by the middle of the field school by the middle of your excavation season.

270
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,000
You're ready to throw in the towel you are completely done.

271
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:35,000
But at the end of it, you're back to loving it again because, hey, you've achieved something you've accomplished something.

272
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:40,000
That's the same thing for me with lab work too.

273
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Thinking about lab work.

274
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,000
Doing the lab work is fun.

275
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:54,000
But a lot of the stuff that comes before that is, oh God.

276
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,000
I'm going to do lab work.

277
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,000
I'm going to do lab work.

278
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,000
So,

279
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,000
what I find is you love it at the end.

280
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,000
You don't love it in the middle.

281
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,000
Yeah, I would agree with that.

282
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,000
That's good advice. Yeah.

283
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:17,000
Because I guess I feel like everyone that I've talked to that's like done field schools and did all the whatever.

284
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:26,000
And I'm like, oh, I still talk to all my field school buddies and we have this connection that we just get each other and whatever, whatever.

285
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:33,000
And I'm like, is that a trauma response? Are you all just connected via trauma?

286
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,000
But, okay.

287
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:42,000
No, it's actually you stay in touch with your friends. You stay in touch with people that you work with.

288
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:50,000
Experience lasts with you. Now, it is sort of a mini trauma response because it is a difficult thing.

289
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:59,000
But you do build a friendship. You do build relationships doing these field schools and they stick with you for a very long time.

290
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:05,000
Or, you know, people that when I did my very first field school, it was an archaeological field school.

291
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:10,000
This was in 2009.

292
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:15,000
I still talk to the people that I worked with that were in my pit.

293
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:20,000
We still chat quite frequently.

294
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:34,000
But that was another one where, you know, if you ask us in the middle of the field school, we would have said, we hate this.

295
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:41,000
At the end of the end of the field school, hey, we absolutely love this. So much so we both did it again the next year.

296
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,000
I like it.

297
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:52,000
Did y'all, I guess, prior to besides just like suggesting going to the gym, right?

298
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:59,000
Were y'all people that liked like camping and outdoors things or?

299
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:10,000
Yeah, you need to be like you need to be someone who likes getting a little dirty and who like can find the enjoyment of what nature is going to throw at you.

300
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:18,000
Because it's not always nice. The year that I was a student in it, we did it in the fall and you were just getting like pelted by acorns and it was wet the whole time.

301
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:25,000
So you were muddy the whole time. And like you have to be. I grew up in a like at my trailer in the woods.

302
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:31,000
So I was also mentally prepared for that. But yeah, yeah, I would say.

303
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:38,000
I would say, I guess, for myself and also for sorry I feel like I'm just asking so many questions.

304
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:45,000
But for me and for anyone who's interested, you know, listening that might want to go to a field school.

305
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:52,000
Besides like physical and mental preparation. Are there things that you suggest people bring to the field school?

306
00:45:52,000 --> 00:46:01,000
Like I know like a lot of times field schools will give list of like, you know, at least three pairs of work pants and long sleeve shirts and short sleeve shirts and work boots and things like that.

307
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:08,000
But like things that might not necessarily be on that like packing list that you're like, oh, this was so useful.

308
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:15,000
I wish like I wish I would have had this or I did bring it and everyone was so jealous that I had this one thing or whatever.

309
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:24,000
Not really. About the closest it depends on the field school. It depends on where the field school is.

310
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:31,000
And being prepared for that particular climate for that particular environment.

311
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:37,000
Yeah, it's for the weather. Yeah, it really is dressed for the weather.

312
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:45,000
I would not wear jeans. Style is not like you are. You do not need to look cute when you are in the field.

313
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:52,000
Like function over fashion always. Yeah, I like it. I like it.

314
00:46:52,000 --> 00:47:00,000
I have short hair or bangs. My big thing was bandanas. I have fringe for most of my life and I hate wearing hats.

315
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:07,000
So like know yourself. You are you want your hair out of your face and you don't want to be like the dirtiest squirrel out there.

316
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:12,000
So like know yourself. If you don't like hats, figure out what you do like, you know, just dress for the weather.

317
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:18,000
Make sure you're keeping an eye on it and know that.

318
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:26,000
The one thing I would recommend if you have the money, invest in a good water bottle.

319
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,000
One that will keep cold all that.

320
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:45,000
Yeah, something with a straw is also nice because if somebody if you're really gross and you don't want to touch it, then being water fall water is less pleasant than just like having a straw like a built in straw.

321
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:53,000
I like it. I like it. Yeah, I mean, I guess those are my main questions for myself.

322
00:47:53,000 --> 00:48:02,000
If y'all have any other last minute things, I know we're kind of coming up on about an hour for this podcast and I want to be respectful of y'all's time as well.

323
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:09,000
And everyone who's listening, we want to appreciate, you know, we really appreciate y'all being here and listening to my blabbering.

324
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:17,000
But if you have any last minute advice or anything that you feel like, I wish I would have said this.

325
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:28,000
Do you want to say that now? No, I, I highly recommend going to field schools if you can.

326
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:35,000
You need to learn if this is the right job for you.

327
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:39,000
And even if you don't like field school.

328
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,000
It doesn't mean you don't have to be in this field.

329
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,000
There are rats and there are field mice.

330
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,000
Some of us are both.

331
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:54,000
Some of us prefer to be one or the other.

332
00:48:54,000 --> 00:49:04,000
I think that's, that's a really good point where uses as opportunity to figure out yourself, essentially.

333
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:16,000
You can never really know if that kind of high pressure environment is for you until you're in it. Right. And you can't know if getting dirty every day is something that you're into or, you know, torturing your poor body.

334
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:23,000
So you just try. That's all I would say is try and no matter what, try to have as much fun with it as you can.

335
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:27,000
Like do your best, but just have fun and learn.

336
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:32,000
Don't be so stressed out that you don't learn.

337
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,000
All right. Well, I think that just about covers it for this episode.

338
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:43,000
We definitely want you to come back, maybe listen to other episodes if you haven't already.

339
00:49:43,000 --> 00:50:02,000
And maybe next time we'll talk about presentations or publications or different things. We'll try to put it out there what we're going to discuss next month before we do. But until next time, this is the Bone Club. Thanks for being here.

340
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:11,000
Presentations and publications actually would be a pretty good one because Stephanie, you have a presentation coming up in two weeks.

341
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,000
How many do you have to do?

342
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:19,000
I have one coming up in a month.

343
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:31,000
And I've got two publications one is just about ready to be put out there and the other one is undergoing its revisions right as we speak.

344
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:38,000
So it's a that would be a great good topic. Yeah, I think I think so too, especially after the presentations.

345
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,000
This is what we do not do this.

346
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,000
Things like that.

347
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:52,000
But also if you're listening and you're thinking to yourself like, oh, I might want more information about field schools or I might want more information about conferences.

348
00:50:52,000 --> 00:51:00,000
If you have any questions, feel free to email us or just like reach out because we're more than happy to get that information out there to you.

349
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:08,000
And then, you know, we're just three people, we might not know the answer, but we can definitely figure out the answer and get it to you.

350
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:14,000
So don't hesitate to reach out. And if you're all going to ask, I will see you in two weeks.

351
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:19,000
Feel free to reach out and compete my friend, please.

352
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,000
Thanks for listening.

353
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,000
Thanks for listening.

354
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:50,000
Thank you.

355
00:51:53,000 --> 00:52:05,000
Thank you.