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I feel your hands burning

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Down to my bones

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But I see the truth now

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I've never been more alone

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I run through the trees as fast as I can

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I fall to my knees and I find a place to run

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Whisper in the moonlight, stop and I freeze

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See into the shadows, taking over me

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Hello and welcome. I'm Ashley. I'm Stephanie. And I'm Jenna.

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And we are The Bone Club. Last month we talked about what got us into

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The Bone Club, and today we're talking about the

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One-Side-Consic Anthropology. On this month's episode, we'll talk about how.

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How did we get in? How do you get in? And what jobs can you do once you graduate?

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So to get started, how did you get in, Jenna? How did you get into

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academia? How did you get into this field?

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Yeah, I think a lot of luck and being at the right place at the right time.

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I originally went into a degree in kind of like rehabilitation sciences.

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I used to work with people post brain injury.

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And when I got out of my degree, I just wasn't feeling walking down that road

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for an extended period of time anymore. So I was just kind of floating around. I was working in a restaurant.

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And somebody that I worked with was working outreach at the University of Toronto.

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And he was telling me all about what he did and how he had a degree in forensic anthropology.

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And there were light bulbs going off in my brain. I was super excited about that.

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He offered to show me around campus. I met a couple important people.

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And then the next thing I knew, I was taking extra credit courses to catch up.

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I did a year of non-degree courses. So I was just I had the anatomy. I had the osteology.

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But I was working on the forensics aspect of it.

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And then within the next year, I was in my master's.

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I was always super in love with the idea of forensics. I've never been a math person.

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And I didn't think without chemistry or physics that I could ever be a forensic scientist.

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But the chips just kind of fell exactly where they did. And here I am with the master's in it.

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Stephanie, what about you? Yeah, I mean, I always knew I wanted to do forensics.

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I had went to undergrad thinking I wanted to do forensic pathology.

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So dealing with all the fleshy bits and doing the autopsies and the morgue and thought, oh, that's what I wanted to do.

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I was just so fascinated by it all. And then I was taking my classes.

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I was pre-med was doing all of those was pretty much just trying to make sure that I clicked everything that I needed to to be able to get into med school.

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And I found out that to get to pathology, I had to go through all the alive people rotations.

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And I was like, oh, but but people know I don't I don't want to do that.

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And but then I was like, I don't know what else I want to do with my life. And so like, as someone who plans like 12 years in advance, it like threw me for a loop.

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And I was like, I don't know what I want to do anymore.

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And I went and talked to my advisor at the time. And she was like, well, I mean, let's just keep going along this path.

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It's just, you know, a couple years of rotations. It's not going to be your whole life, like whatever, whatever.

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And so I just kind of like, OK, guess this is what I'm doing. And I had to take a behavioral science as like a, you know, check mark in my degree plan.

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And she was like, we'll take this forensic anthropology class. It's close to what you want to do.

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But, you know, not exactly. But it'll count as a behavioral science. And so I was like, cool, whatever.

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At that point, I was thinking, oh, what are humanities? That's not a real science.

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I was very much in that mindset, just very much changed now.

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But I took the class and just fell absolutely in love with it, realized that I could do what I really liked about forensic pathology without having to, one, go through as much school and to have to deal with the alive people parts of people being sick and things like that.

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And I had a professor who I was just obsessed with and I was like, I want to be her. How do I become her?

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And so added anthropology as a second major, took all the courses I could to be able to do that. And that was my junior year.

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And I was about to graduate and was like, nope, let's throw a wrench in that whole plan and turn it all around. And so then going to apply for grad schools and things like that.

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I definitely did not have the resume that most people had gotten to want to do grad school.

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So then I got I was really fortunate that she knew who then became my grad school advisor and was like, sure, her resume not look like much, but I promise you she's a good student like really went to bat for me.

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And yeah, so I went to get my master's and it was one of my favorite things. I absolutely miss my master's, which is I know something that not everyone can say.

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But yeah, and I just went and did that. And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about it all.

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But and then graduated and went straight into the workforce. So that's pretty much my story.

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Do you want to share who it was? Who the my grad advisor? Yeah, this this faculty member that you wanted to be.

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Dr. Miranda class, I wanted to be her so bad. She is fabulous. She used to work in Florida, then went and taught at the University of Louisiana.

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I laugh yet, which is where I was at school and I think she's actually back in Florida now doing more like bio archaeology, I think. But I was just like, wow, she's fantastic. Can I be her? I was just like starstruck.

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We do have our stars.

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I actually like you all. I didn't actually start in forensic anthropology coming up saying this is what I want to do.

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I had a couple careers before I even got into this one.

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And the jumpstart was actually working as a surgical scrub nurse.

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And I decided to go back to school. There were some things that were going on and I wanted to go back to school and I went back to school and I actually didn't even start

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my undergraduate degree in this in forensic anthropology. It was actually going into

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teaching English literature.

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I was an English Lit major and I was minored in anthropology and I fell in love with anthropology, socio-cultural anthropology, and discovered that I can marry the two together. It actually was possible to marry the two together in forensic anthropology.

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And so I did that and graduated from my undergraduate institution, went on to Boston University.

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And I had an absolute blast and learned an awful lot about the field.

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But at the time it wasn't a field where a lot of people graduating from programs went on to practice in forensic anthropology.

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And I had said, you know what, I'm going to. This is what I want to do. And ended up at my current institution with a really good supervisor, I think, when it comes to some of this stuff.

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Learned an absolute lot. And now just finishing up and trying to get out with my sanity as best as I possibly can.

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But one of the things that you've noticed with all of us is it is you have to go to grad school. There are some undergraduate institutions.

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The University of Toronto in Canada does have an undergraduate program in forensic anthropology.

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Ohio State University is starting up the first one in the United States.

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But you do have to, in essence, if you want to practice in the field, you have to go into grad school.

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So how does our audience get into grad school? People listening here, what are some of the steps they have to do?

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What are some tips and tricks that you recommend from your experience?

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I know, at least for me, this is one that I kind of wish I knew and didn't really, I did not do going into grad school that I wish I would have done.

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Was, I had researched different grad programs, as we all do, to try to figure out, like, where do I even want to go?

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And research, you know, the professors and things like that. But really, it's important to go and talk to the professors, go and get to know them, let them get to know you.

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Because there are so many people applying to grad schools that all have very, very similar backgrounds.

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So, you know, you did the field schools, you did the classes, or you did whatever, which all are awesome things that do make you stand out.

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But when you have a list of 50 people that have all done similar things, then what makes you stand out?

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And so this field, as with a lot of fields, is who do you know? And how well do they know you?

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Because we are a very small field, so like, really making those connections with people is a really important step.

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And so while I'm very happy with where I ended up, and I would not change that for the world, I do think that if I were to go back and, like, you know, tell my past self something, it would be, go do those, not just like, email the professor, but like, set up a FaceTime, set up a Zoom or whatever, to actually, like, have, like, face-to-face contact with that person.

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And then when they see your resume, they know who you are already. They've met you. You know if you connect, because you might have very similar interests, but do not get along with each other at all.

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And so, like, knowing that stuff beforehand, I think is really, really important. And it's something that I didn't do that I wish I had done.

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Something I can't stress enough is going and meeting the faculty members, meeting those potential supervisors, talking with them, getting to know them.

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The number of people I've heard from where they get accepted into a program, they go into that program, and oil and water get along better than supervisor and student.

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It just, it happens, and it happens all the time, and it happens everywhere. So, yes, you do need to go through and meet the potential supervisors.

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The other thing that I would stress, not only looking at potential supervisors is, or emailing potential supervisors and meeting with them in person,

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but also remember you're looking at the supervisor, you're looking at what they want to teach and how they teach it.

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Don't worry about the name of the institution.

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Agreed.

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One of the things that Harvard has a really great name,

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and we'll use archaeology, has a really great name in academia.

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BioAnth and their archaeology programs, not as great as a lot of other places.

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And that's true in a lot of different areas.

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You know, some of the best schools that teach forensic anthropology are small little schools that you barely even heard of.

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Things like Western Carolina and other institutions.

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University of Indianapolis.

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Yep. I mean, the master's program that I went to is not one that was super well known at the time.

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Like, it's getting a little more up there because of my grad advisors, but she had just started there like a year or so before I started at the University of West Florida.

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And even when like Googling, you know, my Google basics of what are good anthropology programs for a master's degrees, Google, SIN, right?

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It didn't pop up because it was a very small school.

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It was known for maritime archaeology prior to Alicia being there.

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Now it is definitely becoming a bigger program because of her, but it is still a very, very small school.

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But had my undergrad advisor not been like, hey, apply to this school, I probably would have never thought about it.

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Never really would have tried to go there.

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But I recommend that school to the nth degree because being under Alicia was just like what made my career what it is so far.

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And so like it really your relationship with your advisors really does make or break your college, you know, your grad school experience.

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I also think going on with meeting the advisor and stuff is talking to students that already go there.

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Because while they might not be in your cohort or you might not really necessarily take classes with them because maybe they're about to graduate or something like that.

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But knowing how they view the program is a big difference because I mean, let's be real, professors have to sell their programs.

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So they're going to tell you the good things while the students might be a little more brutally honest.

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And tell you, you know, this is something that I have noticed, but it doesn't bother me, but it might bother you or something like that.

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So really also talking to the students that are currently there makes a big difference.

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Yeah, and to go on the name, like you don't need to go to a big name university.

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In fact, like the bigger the name, the less attention you'll get as a student.

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So sometimes it's just better to go somewhere that you've never heard of but have a fabulous program and a supervisor that you like.

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Agreed.

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Yeah, I mean, I know I have, you know, friends now in the field that did go to bigger name schools and had to, you know, fight tooth and nail for every bit of funding, every bit of everything that they did.

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While for me, because I was, I had a cohort of three people, any opportunity that Alicia found, she texted us, it was like, do you want to do this?

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Instead of like me having to be like clawing at any opportunity, she really like brought us a lot of opportunities.

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And while that says obviously a lot on her as an advisor to begin with, it really is a space where if you know you don't go to a school that has 20, 40 people in your cohort or in the cohorts around you, you can really

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get more experience in that way.

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Yeah, and this is something that

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beyond one of the things that I would say is also don't limit yourself

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to your home country if you have to. I mean, if you have to,

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yeah, you have to limit it to where you're at. But for me, for my undergraduate or for my graduate journey,

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I ended up going to Canada. I'm originally from the United States. I ended up going to Canada to study what I needed to study.

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And I tell my students quite often, if you're serious about getting into forensic anthropology, and remember I'm talking to Canadian students,

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you've got to look at the United States. You can't just look at Canada.

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There's not as many positions in Canada as there are in the United States. But even between us,

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there are schools in United Kingdom, in Australia, in New Zealand, in South Africa.

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There are schools all over the place. So look at those grad programs even outside of the US, outside of Canada.

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And you'll be able to find a home that is good for you.

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Yeah, another point that I would stress is if you know that you're going into a program that's going to require a research project,

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to start considering what you would want that to be for yourself before you even kind of dive in.

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The more you love your research and the more passionate you are about your research, the easier it will be to get it done.

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And so going in, not entirely married to an idea because research can be changed in the blink of an eye.

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Everything's always changing. But just going in with something that you're at least passionate about,

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and you can bring forward to that supervisor to be like, hey, this is what I'm excited about. I'd love to research this.

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I would love to do it with you. Those are always big.

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Yeah, I mean, I would definitely agree.

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This is all very much a do as I say, not as I do, because I did not go into grad school with a thesis idea at all.

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I was just, I was so green, as you say, because I had literally only learned what anthropology was two years before I started grad school.

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And I was just like, I don't know. I barely know what the field is, much less what I want to fix about it or what hasn't been like anything.

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And so I really, I mean, I went through like four or five different topics that first year, just being like, okay, these are my plans.

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This is where I want to end up. These are my lifelong goals. But as far as how to get there, I don't know.

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And so like my advisor was really good about walking me through things and being like, because I would like throw out ideas and like, oh, I would think this is so interesting.

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I want someone to do this. And she's like, but what's like, what's the purpose? Like what? Sure, you can research that thing. But then what? Like, what is that used for?

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And I think that often is something that isn't really discussed too often is like, sure, you can do a paper. Everyone can write a research paper.

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But picking a topic that, you know, betters the field, advances certain things is really important. And that really puts you in a better space.

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If you want, you know, to follow through with a career afterwards is like having research that is applicable in the applied versions of our field.

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And so like if you want to go into just research, then maybe the applied doesn't have to be as readily noticeable.

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But if you want to go directly into an applied field, then having research that can then be taken directly to be applied is really important as well.

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I say as I did not do an applied thesis at all, but again, do as I say, not as I do. Right.

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Well, and you don't have to necessarily have an applied thesis. I mean, my doctoral dissertation, yes, it applies to forensic anthropology, but let's be honest, it's not going to be used in.

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But a lot of the research that came out of it, a lot of the research that I've done adjacent to it is applicable and is there to change things.

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But the research is the research.

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So you can give yourself a little bit of leeway on that.

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But you have to always keep an eye towards on how can I better the field? How can I improve the field?

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How can I advance the field? And sometimes it's recognizing that while you're doing your master's degree, while you're doing your Ph.D.,

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that you don't necessarily have to focus on just that one piece of research, but look at some of the other things.

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And if if you are a master's student, one of the things or an undergraduate student, but this is more for master's students, attach yourself to those projects.

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Really and truly, if you know someone in your cohort, someone who is is working on another project that is outside of their dissertation,

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see if there's a way you can join in on that project and expand what you're working.

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Don't be a one trick pony. Look at everything.

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And the other thing about research that I think for me as advice to people is you don't necessarily have to do research

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that is related to what your supervisor or potential supervisor studies.

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My look again, looking at my doctoral research, it looks at histology and protein degradations.

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My supervisor studies sex assessments.

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Wouldn't know the microscope that I look at if it was in the room with her.

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But that's that doesn't mean she's she, you know, she looked at what I wanted to do and then say, no, this is outside my wheelhouse.

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And she has been extremely helpful for me because she's been focusing more on asking those questions that need to be asked of my research,

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which is more important than needing to mesh.

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No research idea to research idea.

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No, I definitely agree with that. I know, at least like, you know, once you're in grad school or you're trying to write a paper,

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really having your committee be a super diverse committee that each of them has very different specialties is really important.

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We're like, I made sure that I had a cultural anthropologist, a forensic anthropologist, an archaeologist had or bioarchaeologist.

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I had someone who was a psychologist because for myself, I did my research on cognitive bias, which is a very like psychological topic.

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And so like having someone who's good at each of the different various facets of your research that way they do question your entire paper.

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Right. They question every little aspect to where it betters your research because you don't want someone who thinks exactly like you to read it and be like, sounds good.

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Done. You want them to question everything that way it actually can be used in the future.

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And it's not just a 300 page paper that you wrote for nothing. You want it to be useful.

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And I know for myself, like a big thing for the applied part. It's not necessarily that like it has to be a method.

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Right. I didn't mean applied in that way, but more just so that whether it be grad school or going to get a job after the fact.

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It's really how you market yourself and having research that is that can be applied in however you see fit and be able to vocalize how it can be applied shows that you can market yourself.

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And as much as anthropologists I think we're all a little socially awkward. A lot of it is personal marketing like how good it, how good are you at not only explaining who you are explaining your interests, but explaining what you can bring to a team really makes a

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difference as far as getting into grad schools, getting those jobs.

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Because it's a really competitive field. We are really small there's not that many open spaces, and a lot of people find it very interesting so you have to learn how to really market yourself, which is no easy task.

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Sorry for the loud noise.

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But how, how would you do that. I mean for me.

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One of the things that I tell my students all the time is, you've got to go to conferences.

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And grad school and undergrad, present your research, go to conferences.

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Get your name out there that's how you market yourself.

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Networking networking networking and much as I hate networking.

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You've got a network.

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But then, once you've done it.

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What are those job prospects. What is the.

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Availability to get a job.

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I mean here we have a rather unique situation between the three of us.

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Stephanie you have a job.

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I do.

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You're very lucky.

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I am planning to graduate.

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And I am in the process of applying to job after job after job after job.

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Jenna, you just graduated you now have the sheepskin to show everybody.

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Have you decided to get another one or are you looking for a job.

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I am looking only just so I another point I would make is like diversity is great, like all of us kind of switched our degrees and I, I don't think there's any problem with that I think the more knowledge you've taken from other disciplines

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the better. And my problem is that I've only ever been in academia and I have only ever worked in restaurants so for me, I think my next stage of diversification is getting an office type, or, you know, corporate, something that's not a restaurant and I'm

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not serving people food, but I'm expanding my ability to learn and grow.

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I'm not discounting a PhD because even as far as I've gotten now it's so terrifying that I just want to run back to the smooth warm hug and embrace of academia, which sounds insane.

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Once, once a student always a student, I think it's the trauma you know, rather than you don't anticipate how horrible it'll be.

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Yeah.

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If you hit on the right word there.

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It is a trauma.

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It's a trauma.

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It's fun.

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You learn a lot.

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But the trope that it's an easy life is

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a joke in and of itself.

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Right. The truth about academic life is it is not easy.

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Yeah, you there's occasionally where you'll have a week or two where you don't do anything.

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There are weeks where you're on campus doing your research at 3am in the morning.

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And that's on a Saturday.

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Because that's the academic.

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Once you get it, once once you're in it, then you can you can look at jobs and you look at what you are good at while you're in grad school.

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I mean, for me personally, I'm applying to anything and everything that comes up.

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If it's at a medical examiner's office, I'm applying to it. If it's a another sort of area that's with that's within the field, within the industry, I'm applying to it.

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The biggest ones I've got my fingers sort of crossed for are postdoc positions and faculty positions.

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Because one of the things that I have found out about myself through my academic journey is I really love teaching.

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And she is fabulous at it. I'm just going to cut you off. Like, this is no boost on Ashley. She is a beloved TA.

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And thank you.

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It's just this is something that I really enjoy doing is the teaching side of things.

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So I'm hoping to to get one of those faculty positions to get a postdoc more than the other things.

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But the thing that worries me is, again, this is a very competitive field.

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Because it is competitive, there are not as many jobs available that I, you know, than I would like.

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I would like a lot more jobs to be available.

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I can count the number of jobs available, faculty jobs, and on one hand between two countries.

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And with that, I'm hoping note that there are not five people graduating with their Ph.D. this year.

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That is a reality that you have to face. And a lot of it is luck.

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Because even though there's only five positions that have opened up so far, that's actually pretty high for for any given year.

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A lot of times you're looking at three, maybe if you're lucky.

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Right. I mean, and that's kind of one of those things when you think about marketability and how to showcase like who you are to a job field or to like grad programs and things like that is.

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Anthropology as a whole. I mean, what is, you know, what is anthropology? It's the study of people, right? Like, we're really good at understanding.

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Like the complex, like social things that happen. And, you know, we have good management skills and like there's a lot of things that get taught within the field of anthropology that isn't just applied anthropology.

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And so one thing that I know I've talked to some students and stuff about is like, you know, maybe you don't have the check marks that are needed for a certain job.

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In your like explicit writing, you know, maybe you don't have direct management experience, but have you volunteered in certain ways? Have you put yourself out there to learn the skills, maybe in an indirect setting and being able to showcase that like.

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Maybe I didn't have this class on this one topic, but I have gone through and I've done all of these. I've learned all these skills through other things. So I think, I mean, I know you were saying you don't want to go back to restaurant business, but being in the restaurant and industry service.

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It teaches you people skills, communication skills, teaches you time management skills, teaches you people management skills in ways that like working in an office job just doesn't like.

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I've learned so much working in a restaurant like literally conflict management restaurants, right. I want to learn how to deal with people if you have social anxiety restaurants.

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And so I think a lot of, I think a lot of times we get. And I mean, I was definitely someone that did this to have like, you go to apply to jobs and you're like, well, I took these classes and I have this degree and I love you know I have these direct experiences that are directly related to this thing.

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But you don't like when you have to market yourself and like explain who you are and the skills you have, you're more than just the classes you took, you know you are your life experiences and being able to be able to show other people who you are really does make a big difference.

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Because then, not only are you showing them.

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You're showing them what types of skills you have and you know how to communicate that to them, because communication, regardless of your job is probably one of the biggest things you always have to do, because we're always dealing with other people.

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So, talk about your skills and use those skills in different settings. And, and I know I said marketing yourself a bunch already but like it really is just like how to market yourself to the jobs you want to, whether it be academic or applied or whatever.

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It's just like, I know for me this is one thing I'm learning a lot for myself is, I did not like teaching, I don't want to teach, I don't want to do academia, I'm very much an applied science person.

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But I think both parts of the forensic anthropology field can learn a lot from the other half essentially, because there's a lot of things that applied scientists kind of ignore, like theory and things like that, that academic scientists are really good at.

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While sometimes academic scientists can get really into theory and forget how to actually use this thing in real life. And so I think it's good to have both of those skill sets kind of intertwined with each other, even if you don't necessarily have direct experience

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in those things.

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There is something about marketing that you can do while you're in school if you are in school.

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One of the things that I would recommend to students is, join student organizations, not just as a member, but work in some sort of leadership role.

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If you are in grad school, if you're going to grad school, join professional organizations as student members, and try to serve in positions such as student liaisons and on various committees if you're allowed to.

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That shows that one, you're interested in the field beyond just methods in the theories, you're actually interested in the field.

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It also shows that you can work with people to help better the field.

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And that is a massively marketable skill that you can't get sitting in a classroom.

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You can't get sitting in the lab.

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You need to be able to work with people and show that you can work with people.

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And one of the best ways to do that is by serving on different committees, serving in different organizations, and looking at what those organizations can do for your institution, how that is the institution.

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You can look at who is picking organizations that not only interest you, but that you can look at and say, this will better this institution by whatever.

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So those are, those are some things that I would recommend.

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On topic of trauma and skills, what would you say in terms of what a student should have or may require coming into a program such as forensics and forensic anthropology and forensic pathology?

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Like what kind of coping mechanisms would you say that an individual coming into this field should be prepared to work on or have?

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Is it bad that the first thing I thought of was drinking?

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That's not a healthy coping mechanism. Don't do that. Even though a lot of us in the field do.

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I think that really in recent years it's changing a little bit, but knowing that you're not objective in everything you do and really like checking back in with yourself, because I know for me, like, my journey from grads, you know, undergrad to now, I'm like, a hundred eight, like, definitely a different person.

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Of like, I first started out being like science is objective and this is all whatever, whatever. And now I'm like, nothing's objective, everything's subjective, everything's whatever.

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And, but like that really opened up for me, the like ability to kind of reconcile with myself that like we're dealing with death every day. And it's okay for that to bother you a little bit like, and just like, knowing yourself and knowing your boundaries is really important.

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And that's really hard to tell someone at, you know, what are you 21 when you might enter grad school, 21 and older, you don't know yourself at that age, you don't know what your boundaries are and what all you know what you can handle.

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But like, really just having those periodic check ins with yourself of like, am I okay with this? Like, you might think you love forensics and then you get there and you're like, seeing any type of dead body breaks you.

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And not necessarily that being broken is a bad thing, but does it affect your ability to do your job? Does it affect your life outside of your job? Because we are, I think, a lot of us in the field have a hard time having that work life balance.

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So like, does, does your job lead into every other aspect of your life in good or bad ways? You know, having those check ins with yourself is really important. And then setting those like firm boundaries for yourself of like, I won't accept these things.

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And I think that's important, technically in every aspect of your life, but especially your job, and especially for, at least for me, what I've noticed in the field is like we all care so deeply about the field, and about the work that we do because forensic science and like forensic anthropology is a very humanistic science.

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We're, you know, we're working with very traumatic events and very like, you know, just like hostile things sometimes. And so we care so deeply. And so just like making sure that you take time to check back in with yourself.

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Yeah, I guess that's, that's what I've got.

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It's not perfect.

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And this is actually a topic that I know we were going to discuss in the future is how do we deal with the emotional trauma of being of what we see.

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But there is trauma that we deal with.

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And not just the trauma on the remains but the trauma with remains.

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And there are some coping mechanisms, one of the things that I have come to appreciate, and I stress to people now is, have a therapist.

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Have a therapist that you can talk to, and even if you're in grad school, you go to grad school or you're in an undergrad program and you're going to grad school. It's okay to have a therapist, even if you don't actually get to go out on cases and see things, because

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just grad life is stressful and breaks people.

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I would recommend having that therapist, if you do go out on cases as a grad student, being able to relay what you see with your therapist and being able to find a way to process.

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Because the unfortunate truth is, you're not going to know what you can and cannot handle until you're faced in that situation.

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The number of people I have worked with in my field, both in the forensic pathology side of things, when I was helping people with autopsies, or as forensic anthropologists that have dropped out of the field in its entirety with their first kid,

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or have dropped out as being forensic anthropologists when they graduated from working with just skeletons to, all right, now I have a set of remains that has soft tissue on it, that has badly decomposed, that was a part of a fire.

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And there's various different states of fleshiness, to use a different term.

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Some people can't handle that. They can handle the dry bones, and they can do that perfectly, but you add anything beyond that and they just, they can't do it.

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And recognizing, hey, you can't do this, is a key part in not being able to push yourself.

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And like I said, this is where a therapist can help you.

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And it's something that I've come to appreciate more recently because I've been one of those people that have just, all right, I'm in anthropology mode and brain is shut off.

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I'm just going to deal with what I have here.

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And you don't realize until it's too late, the impact it has had on.

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Right.

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And I think it's okay for things to have impact on you. I think a lot of times we want so badly to make our morbid jokes and say, oh, it's all fine, we have a dark sense of humor, which I do think a lot of us do.

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But it's okay to not only have that dark sense of humor, but to also recognize that it does affect you.

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I mean, I know for myself, like, working, you know, primarily in a field like in like a job setting that like works with past wars and things like that, where like, you know, it is mostly skeletonized.

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Very rarely do I get tissue, though, sometimes you get hair and nails and that kind of grosses me out but it is what it is.

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Like, you can very easily step away sometimes in those situations.

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But now anytime I see like a little old man with like a war hat on. I immediately cry, because the people that are on my tables would have been their age.

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And like that stuff that like I never thought I would like, not necessarily that I wouldn't care about because I do care but like, I didn't think it would affect me in that way, where like I might not cry at work, because I can get my work done.

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But then I'm at the grocery store, and a little old man who has a Korean War vet hat on makes me cry, because I haven't fully dealt with things and so like those are the times that I'm like okay, check back in with myself, what is, why am I feeling what

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I'm feeling and like how, how to process those things.

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And I also think, like, if you're not already to the point of grad school or you're those types of things you're just thinking, I might want to do this field.

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I think, like, internships and volunteering is a really, I won't say easy because very hard to get them because they're unpaid and there's all those issues with internships and stuff like that but having, if you can get the opportunity to see what the job is like

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before going through the schooling and going through, like, I would hate for someone to go through grad school, get lots of student debt to get on their first job and be like, oh no I don't want this.

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And then, not necessarily that it's a waste because you learned a lot, but it sometimes can feel that way, because you're like I've done so much to get to this point and now what and you feel kind of stuck.

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And I know like for like when I work with interns or people that are like new to the field or an undergrad and things like that. I try my best to always like, tell them to try to take any opportunity you can to see what the field is like, because

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Ashley's right like you don't know what you can't handle until you can't handle it. And it's better to learn those things early than too late.

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I know for myself.

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I was lucky not lucky. I don't know how to explain that. But in high school I had an internship in a pathology lab because I thought I wanted to do pathology, and the first autopsy I ever saw was on a newborn.

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It doesn't quite get much sadder than that.

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Um, yeah.

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And so like, for me that was like a very staunch like, all right, you either like this or you don't, because this is rough.

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You're right into the fire with that one. Right. And so like, not necessarily say that everyone needs to start their career with an autopsy of a newborn but sometimes throwing yourself into the fire a little bit to see if you even like the thing, because

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luckily, you know the pathologist that I was working under at that point was very kind and very understanding of like, if you are not okay, walk out at any time. And like having those opportunities to jump into the fire but know you can get pulled out without it really,

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hopefully not affecting too much.

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That is really important. As far as like if someone, you know, whoever is listening is thinking they want to go into this field is like, try your hand meet people and try really hard to get those opportunities as few and far between as they are.

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But one of the things that you can do is email an anthropologist that you know is in your area.

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You can always look to see if there is somebody in your area through the American Board of Forensic Anthropology's website and ask if you can shadow them for a day.

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So tell them exactly what you're looking for that you are planning on entering this field, you have this experience.

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Make sure that this is the right field, would it be possible to go speak to them for, talk to them, and then if possible, shadow them in their job duties for a day and see what's going on.

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But this is actually a very interesting topic. And maybe one that we can delve into next month.

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Because I think it is something that needs to be addressed. It's something that our field is just now at the very, very baby steps of working on and working towards is this, how do you deal with the emotional trauma of what we see and how we deal with things.

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And I think that would be good. Yeah, and I think with like the influx of like you know murder porn and there's just infinite amounts of crime stuff that you can take in and you might think I love this I love listening to these crime podcasts I love watching all these murder documentaries I love watching all these true crime cases but it is sexy on the screen to a point and then you need to be prepared that it's not on the screen anymore.

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And there are things to be considered before you jump into a degree or a career.

341
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:23,880
No, I mean, that is a great point of the TV because I mean, I know we talked about this a little bit last podcast, but like, feel like a lot of us really liked, you know our crime shows and things like that and the job is not that I.

342
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:33,880
I have a cloaca that's like the size of my fingernail in the middle of it, which are all terms you could Google but essentially.

343
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:48,880
And so like you can have really cool cases, but it is not every day, and it is not something like, Oh, I found this thing and they're going to be ID in the moment and then everything's gonna be happy and the family's gonna be so happy and like that is not the everyday job,

344
00:51:48,880 --> 00:52:02,880
a lot of cool if you're not entirely traumatized before you can get cool. So, exactly. And so just like having a realistic expectation of what the job is to.

345
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:21,880
What do you think is important, because, while yes, I think all of us can sing the praises of anthropology and what we like, but it's like what of anthropology. Do you like, because what you might see on TV is not really what anthropology is so is the thing you really like

346
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:39,880
about anthropology, something that actually we do, or is it something that sounds like we do but it's not actually our job. Like, I wish I could tell you that I have hydrated, you know, old fingerprints to get a fingerprint from someone.

347
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:54,880
I have not ever done that. Maybe someone has. And I'm not saying it's not something that can't be done, but it is not my everyday. And so if that's the thing that someone's like, I just really want to be able to like, where someone's fingers as gloves and you haven't

348
00:52:54,880 --> 00:53:09,880
ever injured your finger and put it on your own finger and then used it to scan something really. So like, if that's what you're really wanting out of the field maybe, maybe reevaluate a little bit.

349
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:24,880
But not only what the field is, what the job is, and what you can handle as a person, because not everyone can handle it and that's okay too.

350
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,880
I think we've covered a lot today.

351
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:32,880
I think we have a good setup for next month.

352
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,880
So, until then I want to thank you all.

353
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,880
I'm Ashley.

354
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,880
I'm Stephanie.

355
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,880
And we are the BOMB club, and we will see you next month.

356
00:53:44,880 --> 00:54:11,880
Thank you.

357
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:29,880
Thank you.