This is the G podcast where we focus on family, friends, finances, freedom in our future and everything else.
This is the podcast tonight.
We are live and we are featuring Lawrence Watkins.
We're getting right to it.
Y'all already know what it is.
This is the G podcast where we focus on family, friends, finances, freedom in our future and everything else.
This is the podcast and we got Lawrence Watkins in the building.
Give it up one more time.
Appreciate you joining big homie.
Hey, I'm very happy to be here.
Appreciate I love that introduction and that model that you have opened up your show.
That's a good model to live by.
I appreciate that.
We're going to get right into this discussion.
I value this gentleman's time.
We actually cross paths once randomly.
And this is also just a power.
I think of what we're going to continue to talk about to just networking, meeting people,
because I was living in Amsterdam, my wife and I, and all of a sudden we had a gathering on that night.
And she mentioned that this guy named Lawrence will be coming through with his wife and they were in town from Amsterdam.
Right. I'm just curious, Lawrence, just from your point of view for everybody listening,
like how did you end up at my house that night in Amsterdam, if you even remember?
I don't fully remember, but I do know that it was during the year that me and my wife, it was at that time,
this is, I guess must have been like 2016 or so.
Me and my wife had only been married for about a year or so, or it may have been 2017.
She had quit her corporate job, actually, government job as an engineer.
And we decided to just put everything in storage and travel throughout Europe and South America for one year.
And we were at like the tours, the end of that particular trip.
And I just remember maybe posting on Facebook, maybe some funny story about my wife or about myself
in terms of being in Amsterdam, you know, loving life.
And then your wife hit me up.
I don't know if you say her name on the podcast or not, but yeah, she hit me up.
She's going to be on next week. Spoiler alert.
She's going to be on live next week.
So Carmiga hit me up.
Yeah, so she hit me up.
It was like, hey, well, you know, me and my husband live here in Amsterdam.
I was like, what?
And I was like, all right, well, let's definitely link up.
And that was definitely a memorable experience.
I remember your home being very beautiful in Amsterdam and a lot of beautiful people,
beautiful friends that surrounded you at the same time.
Yeah, most definitely, most definitely.
And that was that was my first time getting introduced to you.
So I'm looking forward just to learning a little bit more about like your background,
how you were brought up, especially given, you know, what you do today and having that entrepreneurial background.
I really am curious, like from a from a household perspective,
where both parents in the household and how would you describe, like, where you were born and raised?
You know, I was born into a solidly middle class black family, suburban in Louisville, Kentucky.
All right. I think a lot of times people just make assumptions in regards to how one was brought up,
what their background was like, that type of thing.
But I grew up with two loving parents.
They love me to death. My dad was a high ranking police official in Louisville.
My mom was a high school counselor.
And just through those experiences and just the love that they showed me between, I guess, my parents and myself,
but then also just the extended family to my grandparents, my cousins, I have a lot of cousins as well.
Grew up in a very loving, caring environment that supported one another.
And that's something that, as I think about the next generation, is a thing that I want to provide for my children as well.
OK, OK. You say you were born in Louisville.
Did you like were you born and raised there through your high school years or like how much time did you spend growing up in Louisville?
Yeah, the first 22 years of my life are spent in Louisville.
So after college, I realized even before that, of course, when I was growing up, people knew that I was good in math and science.
And kind of funneled me towards that track.
And after high school, I decided to attend engineering school at the University of Louisville.
It's called the school of engineering. Got my degree in electrical engineering.
But throughout the course of getting my degree, I realized that electrical engineering wasn't for me.
So I did a couple of internships, actually three, at Ford Motor Company.
And I remember. So there's this big Ford plant in Kentucky called the Kentucky Truck Plant.
It's miles and miles long, miles and miles deep.
At the time, it was one of the largest manufacturing facilities in the nation.
Definitely car manufacturing facilities in the nation.
And however grateful I was for the opportunity, I hated smelling paint fumes every day because I worked two semesters in the paint department.
I had to wear these overalls like, you know, I was working at the Jiffy Lube up the street or whatever it might have been.
And then one semester I was actually in the body shop making F-250, F-350 trucks.
But my job, so two things. One, you would go down to the floor and all these robots, just lines and lines of robots.
And sparks would just fly all over the place.
And I remember just always coming home with burn holes in my shirt because of all the sparks actually flying.
And then as an intern, they gave me like the most boring job ever.
Basically, for eight hours a day, my job was to go down to the line of color.
All right. So my job was to look at each robot and double check that that specific robot was making the proper welds on the actual vehicle.
So it was like very extremely tedious work that I actually had to do.
And I say to this day that I must have been like the worst employee in the Ford Motor Company history because that was a job that I was not passionate about and I did not want to do.
But I still thank them to this day for this opportunity.
And actually, that was a good guidepost and a good point to show me what well, sometimes knowing what you don't want to do with your life, it's just as good as what you do want to do.
So I can rule that off the list.
Like I do not want to work in a manufacturing facility making cars.
So I decided to go, like, I guess, a different path after college.
So you you you originally pursue, you say electrical engineering?
I'm double A. So my background is in double A. So I was an electrical engineer.
Oh, OK, you're you're growing up like what is it about growing up that said, I'm going to go to school and major in electrical engineering?
Like, I'm even curious, like from from a household perspective, was was college like an expectation?
Was it something that you were like one of the first to do?
Like, I'm curious, like, how did you get to just the thought of majoring in electrical engineering?
So I would say college was an expectation.
So that's the first thing. So even though I'm I don't I guess I'm technically second generation college.
But my parents went to community college first and then had a long road to get their actual degree,
you know, criminal justice and education with my mom.
But my brother, by this time, was working on his Ph.D.
Right. And my sister was, I believe, in medical school, you know, when I was on my way to college.
Right. So college wasn't something that was foreign to our family.
And then my cousins went and graduated.
So it wasn't something that just no one even heard about or anything like that.
I mean, we're struggling to try to try to like succeed in. But it was a well-beaten, well-worn path by this point.
Also, I had a lot of college prep in high school.
So when I was in high school, I did a program that really changed my life.
It was called Math and Science for Minority Students, MS Squared.
And basically, they sent you for three summers for six weeks each summer to Phillips Academy at Andover, Massachusetts,
which is the highest ranking or the most prestigious boarding school in the country.
So for there or every summer there for five hours, every single day, I would study math and science.
Right. Yeah. So in terms of just like having a leg up when it comes to succeeding in school, I've always kind of had that.
It was something really preached to us growing up as a family.
So even though my parents didn't always necessarily know how to do it themselves,
they were able to provide me the right guideposts and the resources to actually make that happen.
OK. OK. Very nice. Very nice.
I guess I got one more question about because what I know about Louisville is Muhammad Ali.
And I'm not I've never been to Kentucky, but I do enjoy bourbon.
So, you know, so I got I got just two questions like I'm curious, like just and also to growing up in North Carolina,
I feel like Kentucky is even way more racist. I don't know if that's just bias.
I don't know if that's like irrational, but I'm just curious, like,
how would you just describe your experience growing up in Louisville, especially given like the fact that someone like Muhammad,
that that's Muhammad Ali's hometown and it has a certain, I think, maybe perception when you grow up outside of that city.
I think that's always the ambiance or I guess the the spirit of Ali is all around,
or at least when I was growing up, because Ali wasn't just a figure.
There are people in our family extended who knew Muhammad Ali was the age difference between
my grandmother on my mom's side and my mom and Ali is like very, very small.
So from that perspective, they knew him before he became a mega famous superstar.
That was the icon, the sports icon around the globe.
But I think as a city, we take it as a source of pride and strength that someone like Ali came out of Louisville.
And also just the fact that Ali could come out of Louisville and do something great.
I know that I can, too. Right. That definitely was the mindset that we had.
And for black people specifically, he was definitely a cultural icon for the city in general,
but especially for black people in the city. Ali, of course, is definitely a cultural icon.
And one thing I always loved about Ali is that no matter how famous he became,
he always took it back to being from Louisville, Kentucky.
If you watch his post game or not post game, post fight interviews, like that type of thing,
when he had his fight against Foreman, George Foreman, the same thing, the first in Zaire,
he was talking about that in regards to like, I want to thank my hometown, Louisville, Kentucky.
Louisville is the greatest, all those different types of things.
And that's always something I've kind of taken with me in terms of me, what I do now,
and just what I do in general is try to promote Louisville as much as possible because I love the city.
From a from a bourbon perspective, are you a fan?
Is it is it just you have to be like, I'm just curious, like, is it or being from there is just kind of like.
People love their bourbon in Kentucky and Louisville, and they use it as a source of like things to talk about within the city.
I don't drink alcohol, so. So for me, it's like, yeah, we're known for bourbon.
I know which friends to point you to if you ever wanted to go deeper on that pathway in terms of doing bourbon tours and that type of stuff in the city.
But myself, you know, that was never, you know, never something that I got into.
Although my wife does love no bourbon, she loves whiskey, but I just know I just I don't drink.
Got it. Got it. I'm curious if you if you go to school for electrical engineering,
like at what point did the entrepreneur start?
Because I think, you know, you know, like I'm hearing you say you grow up in a household like what did your parents have side hustles as entrepreneurs growing up?
Like at what point did the idea of like, you know what, I need to kind of kind of do something a little different here, really start to creep in.
You know, I think it was always in me in terms of just who I was temperament wise and just also personality wise and even identity wise when I was very young.
Right. So I remember this is the mid 90s at the height of Michael Jordan winning championships and that type of thing.
I remember just always going out and playing ball in the neighborhood with my friends and everybody like, oh, I'm going to be Jordan, I'm going to be this, I want to be that.
And for some reason, I just always pictured me being the owner of the team.
I don't know where that came from. I really to this day don't know where that idea came from, where I even learned about what ownership actually was.
Right. But I had just wanted to be the owner of the team. And I took it very seriously from like an identity standpoint.
So I also remember in high school, I always had an entrepreneurial spirit, too.
I remember being the first kid on the bus that had like a CD burner.
So I would burn CDs for mixtapes for all the kids on the bus and charge whatever the going price was, two, three dollars at the time to be able to burn people's favorite CDs and that type of stuff.
So although highly illegal nowadays, right.
Well, not highly, mildly illegal, as I say, but yes, the music industry, highly illegal.
All right. I'll say what to do that. And that's something I enjoy doing.
I remember being in 10th grade in biology class, we were allowed to have one cheat sheet note card that was like two sided where you could take into your test to remember, you know, osmosis or whatever,
phobosynthesis or whatever terminology that we needed for the actual test.
And I remember mass producing those note cards for all 30 kids in the class and selling them.
All right. And it's just something that I really enjoyed doing.
And it was a passion of mine was figuring out different ways to make money and making sure my ideas actually worked.
It was through that experience that I remember to always get paid in advance, you know, with bad credit.
Because some of them kids would take my note card and use them then pay me.
So that was one of the first earlier experiences that I learned in terms of that lesson.
You know, so not only did you have the entrepreneurial spirit early on, you were still focused on uplifting the community.
Shout out. We got to shout out to people like you who help people like me get through public school through K-12.
It's so necessary. It's wow, man. Shout out again, man.
It's OK. That's that's here.
OK, so I'm hearing that you always sort of had to you.
You ended up going back to school and and I guess my question is, like, what made you say go back to school versus do something else at that time?
And if you had the experience as an intern, you have this natural itch.
But like, what made you say, you know what, let me go back to grad school.
And why did you end up going back for for the program you chose?
Well, you know, there's some time in between that of about, I think, two years or so.
So during my senior year of college, my last year of college, I actually spent five years in undergrad
because I did some additional programs, summer programs and other types of things in those internships as well.
Yeah, I had already made the decision that like my my interest lied somewhere else.
Right. So me finishing my engineering degree was because, well, by the time I figured that I was already three years in, I was still doing pretty good at it.
So I might as well just finish getting this degree, this stamp of approval to say I can do this base level work from like an income generating type of standpoint.
But I had also run for student government president while I was in college, for example,
just because I wanted to improve my speaking, my public speaking and leadership skills.
I had already started working with my brother, Dr. Boyce Watkins, who had just started as a professor in Syracuse.
So I helped him promote his books at the time and doing some media types of type of things very, very broadly at that particular moment.
And it was him who floated the idea that, you know, I think we were on the call.
We talked really, really often.
And he said, hey, man, why don't you just turn down your engineering jobs and kind of move to Syracuse with me and help me out and build my business?
Right. That's interesting, because I've always known that I want to be an entrepreneur in some form or fashion.
And my thought process when making that decision was that, well, I'm broke now.
You know, what's being broke in the other couple of years that things don't work out.
But if they do work out, this could be something that could drastically benefit my life or the better.
I took that leap of faith.
So this is back in 2005, 2006 area. I took that leap of faith.
And, you know, my parents were extremely mad.
You know, they weren't just mad at me. They were mildly mad at me.
They were like really mad at my brother, since he's not 12 years my seniors.
Like, you're supposed to be the big brother, you know, teaching him to be on the guided path in terms of doing the right things, whatever.
You got to have ruined his career.
You know, moving to Syracuse.
But they have thought Syracuse is like New York City and it's not the opposite.
All right. You know, you move into this big city. Right.
And they just didn't really understand.
And, you know, I had been exposed to more by that period of time.
So I had known was, you know, was out there a little bit more.
It was like, well, you know, I can always go back to engineering if things don't work out.
But when am I ever going to have like this little responsibility in my life?
And I'm glad I did. It was one of the best decisions I ever made.
Yeah, that's you know, that's that's you know, that's that's great to hear that you had like a sibling that was willing to say,
reach back and say, like, how about we try this?
But like, can you talk about that dynamic of having parents who have a certain vision
and then you going against that grain?
Like, you know, like, I'm curious, like, did you suffer any consequences,
like no mac and cheese for Thanksgiving or anything of the sort because you didn't
because you chose a different path at the beginning?
Man, I feel very blessed in that regard where we have a tight knit family.
And even though even though they didn't understand my decision in terms of why I would do something like that,
they still respected it. Right.
So there was no grudges held. No less mac and cheese for Thanksgiving.
Nothing like that. Right. It was more probably me being like really afraid.
Yeah. So it was really me. Let me start this now.
Being really afraid of what they were going to say, what they're going to think.
What if this failed this big business venture that we have?
What if what if it failed? What are we going to do on that particular front?
Yeah, but no, they've always been supportive.
Like, even though they were mad at the time, they got over it.
They say, you're a man, you make your own decisions.
And they treated me like their son, like they had always treated me.
Very nice. You go to Syracuse, is that when you go back to grad school
after you sort of have a vision of what the next phase will be?
And then you said grad school is a good compliment or like?
Yeah, exactly. Right.
I did a program called Management Leadership for Tomorrow, MLT,
when after I ended or after I finished undergrad, I did that program
to get me into help me get into a good business school.
After that, I had learned about the program.
Another program I did in college called SVMP,
so Summer Venture and Management Program,
where they send you to Harvard Business School for a week,
you know, teach you the case study method.
That's how they teach their courses.
You know, have professors come in and just show you what being
Harvard Business School student, that type of thing.
And a lot of those kids there were actually in MLT,
the undergraduate version of it.
So it was through that experience that I learned that this next program existed.
And, you know, looking back on that now, there's definitely a pattern
that actually happens on that particular front.
There's this like secret pipeline.
I don't know if it's secret, but this pipeline, like the power of pipelines.
All right. So once you get into one pipeline,
it leads to the next opportunity, which leads to the next opportunity.
And sooner or later, you have to put in the work, kind of.
All right. But then a lot of things have already been kind of
predetermined in terms of your pathway, if you want it to be
to like the good life.
If as long as you just kind of do what people tell you to do
and, you know, finish the program and do the next thing.
I think we need more of those those types of pipelines out here for like black kids
who are just doing the right things.
They just don't know how to get from one step to the next.
Because I guarantee you, some of these rich white kids
that I interact with, wealthy white kids and wealthy white people,
they are up on game with those unofficial pipelines.
They may not have an official one, but their dinner table serves as the pipeline.
Thanksgiving dinner, Christmas dinner serves as those types of pipelines.
It's a good way for us to have those similar types of networks.
It's and I appreciate you sharing the names of these programs,
because I've talked on prior episodes just about how that that growing up,
say, before like the age of 21, a lot of your experience is based off of things
largely out of your control because of your environment, your your family.
You don't necessarily get to control the neighborhoods you live in
and the access to the resources you have.
Like, I'm curious from from your perspective, like, how do we help people
get access to those opportunities to get into those pipelines
that that you're speaking of?
Like, what do you think is really like a key thing
preventing us from getting access to those sort of programs and opportunities?
I think there's two things, maybe three.
So one is knowing about them.
All right. You'll be surprised even like working for, you know,
what I work for now, what I do here.
We have a lot of just different programs, other things that are out here.
Some that I know about, some that I just don't know about.
They have a hard time getting people into the programs
because they have a hard time marketing the programs.
They don't know where to go market, where to find these kids,
where to find these adults to actually take advantage
of these particular types of opportunities.
So I would say like, that's the first step.
This is awareness and making these programs and making these things extremely aware.
But I think there's another step that's in there.
I'm going off the fly because I hadn't really thought about this question before.
I would say the second thing would be once the awareness has been established,
making people to actually believe that the program is for them,
because a lot of times we self-select out of stuff. Right.
So there's things that we might actually qualify for.
And we may not even actually fully qualify for. Right.
But we say, ah, that's not for me. I don't know about that.
When it's better just to apply and let them tell you no.
You not tell yourself no. Right.
And I even have to remind myself that, you know, nowadays,
when I think about my next career, my next career, my next steps, no,
I'm going to apply for everything that I think I could potentially be a fit for.
And then let them tell me no on that front.
And then I think the third piece is developing like a making sure that people
have like a base level knowledge and skill set to actually be successful
in those programs and those things once once they actually get in.
How do you continue to increase skill development
to make sure that people, once they are provided with opportunity,
once they believe they have opportunity, actually have the skill set necessary
to actually achieve in that particular opportunity as well.
OK, got it. Got it.
Like, I appreciate you because these programs to me, at least growing up,
like I like a lot of stuff was in my backyard and I didn't even know what it was.
You know, I grew up in Durham, but didn't really understand
what Research Triangle Park was, even though people outside of North Carolina
know what Research Triangle Park is.
There's people growing up here who don't even realize
what's right in their backyard.
And so I appreciate you sharing your point of view on that.
You're you're you're in that Syracuse area.
You're going through your program.
You're starting to get into these different networks
that's opening up these opportunities.
Like as an entrepreneur, like what for you, like what do you feel like
was the toughest thing to figure out early that if you could go back
and tell yourself now, like it would have really helped get you to the next level.
Man, that's a hard question because my mindset
today is very different than my mindset back in 2007
when I started my first company. Right.
So the first company that I actually started was called Great Black Speakers.
And it was a direct outgrowth of the work that I did with my brother,
helping him to get on national media in terms of national media appearances
and to help him get speaking engagements at universities. Right.
So I did that very, very well. Right.
And I remember because I didn't know very much about business up until this point,
especially how to be an entrepreneur or run a business.
I had a lot of like self-study to do.
So I remember waking up in the morning, testing something,
reviewing in the afternoon and the evening time, breathing at night,
thinking through what I was going to test tomorrow and doing the exact same thing
over and over and over again.
So I became really good at helping boys to get speaking engagements,
basically, in new media.
After getting him like 12 or 13 of these things, he said,
man, you're doing really good at this.
Well, have you ever thought about like starting something on your own,
like maybe call it even like Great Black Speakers or something like that. Right.
I don't think he said the name at the point,
but he was like doing something for like black speakers in the college market.
And I think blackspeakers.com was taken.
So we were great black speakers.
And it was through that particular experience,
he was right that I started my first company in 2007 where we helped African-Americans.
So what we did was help African-Americans,
organizations to find African-American public speakers for their work.
For their particular events.
Excuse me. I haven't pitched it in quite a while.
I was getting my pitches fixed up.
Like, no, that's not the right one.
Entrepreneurial problems.
Exactly. Exactly.
I had to go back into the vault for the Great Black Speakers.
But I remember running it as a business to serve me and my potential,
my particular needs.
It was at the time that a really popular book came out called The Four Hour Work Week
by Tim Ferriss. So for our work,
we basically talked to you how to create a lifestyle business to serve you.
And that book came out maybe like two months after I started,
full time, running Great Black Speakers.
So it was like my Bible on that particular front in terms of how I live my life,
in terms of outsourcing everything, trying to do as little work as possible.
So I have as much as free time as possible.
Don't necessarily stretch yourself out too much.
Go out and live life, that type of stuff.
And I'm glad I did it that way because I got to do a lot of things.
I traveled the world. I didn't have to work very much.
You know, I had this income generating machine,
even though it wasn't a lot of income, I didn't have to really work too hard
to actually achieve that level of income.
And I'm getting back to your question in terms of what I would tell myself
in the past or tell myself from the past.
I probably should have worked harder during my 20s than I actually did.
Actually, being someone who's 39, about to be 40 this year with two kids now,
I wish I would have worked harder in my 20s and been more disciplined
day in and day out with my work because all the stuff that was fun.
I'm glad that I did it.
I'm glad I got to live in different countries and travel, you know,
do all this cool stuff.
And I wouldn't trade that, but I would have worked harder on my business
to have something even more, you know, sustainable.
Yeah, even more sustainable, like long term.
I wish I would have done that.
You know, I think that's a I appreciate you sharing that
because I think that's a pretty common theme when when we look back,
say because I'm 36 when I look back at what I'm doing currently
versus what I did in my 20s, like, man, I left a lot of meat on the bone,
if you will.
And it was just young, naive, unexposed, ignorant, hard headed,
stubborn to a large degree.
And I had to get out of my own way in my in my opinion.
And looking back was once I got out of my own way, life started really to
to change differently for me.
You know, I appreciate you talking about like if you could go back,
you would you would you would work harder because there are people listening
who who potentially like the difference is, is that you're not putting in
what you need to put in at a given moment.
And and people who who who reach certain levels of success,
like you don't know how many hours they spend obsessing over
getting to that point and the commitment that went in, you know, behind closed doors.
I appreciate you sharing that thought.
When we talk about this idea of entrepreneurship, given what you do now,
working, you know, to find certain entrepreneurs, I guess you
you were doing an entrepreneur thing.
I'm curious, like, what have you found to be the most like personally
the most challenging piece of, say, working for yourself
versus working for someone else?
The most challenging piece with working for yourself,
I'm going to say is making sure that you work for yourself
harder than you work for other people.
Yeah, because you don't have anyone breathing down your neck
telling you to get this thing done.
You got to do that yourself. Right.
And I think a lot of times if when we're when we are our own boss,
we don't work nearly as hard causes us to not have the same level of impact
and same outcomes as others when it comes when it comes to, you know,
growing successful, large, large scale types of companies.
So that was that was the hardest.
That's the hardest thing waking up every day and working for myself.
Just as hard as I work for someone else or harder.
OK, let me ask you this, too, because at some point you met someone who you marry.
When you when you when you met your your wife,
how did that change how you pursued your entrepreneurial efforts?
I don't know if it changed it too much.
I found myself explaining what an entrepreneur does way more.
So I had to consider like that and consider.
Yeah, I don't know if getting married and meeting my wife is what changed things.
It was probably the kids piece.
Yeah, the kids pieces went really changed things like getting married.
Because after we were married, we traveled to Europe and South America
for a year, right, with me as an entrepreneur and her running her own business, too.
Right. So we still did a lot.
So I kind of me and my family recruited her to the entrepreneurial space
and converted her on that particular front.
All right. So I don't know if much change
change from my perspective in terms of that.
But doing time management and thinking about what changes when you have children
and this other priority that's even higher
than like fulfilling your goal as an entrepreneur in terms of what you want
to accomplish in this world.
You know, that was the real game changer in life.
How long were you and your wife married before you had your first child?
Let's see. Three years, three and a half.
What was like the biggest sort of like?
Because I've talked to a couple of parents on the podcast
and I always like to tease parents for certain
just because like the reality is you have these kids.
And I and I know when you as a couple have kids, nothing is the same.
I'm curious, like what really say for you as a husband
change that you maybe didn't like really think or or or anticipate
once the kid arrived? How much you love them.
Yeah, like that that was a big thing for me
is not having experienced that type of love before
that that raw sense of emotion on that level.
Right. Because romantic love, some form of fashion
you've experienced that you're in your your life starting age 12.
I don't know. With some some younger age, you had a crush on somebody
or whatever. Right. Now, the intensity of it varies
in terms of what it actually looks like.
But you've kind of been experiencing that, you know,
throughout throughout life. But when you have a child,
that's something that's an emotion that you've never really experienced before.
And when you think about like this idea of like creation, right,
of an actual person, this like being that you created.
And then this woman that helped create this this being
and did all the basic most of the work in terms of caring and,
you know, getting it to this world that, you know, a lot of times looks like you.
In my case, it did. Right. That you just love you hear cry.
You know, that was the most joyful moment of my life was, you know,
when my daughter was born and then subsequently when my son was born.
Those definitely the two happiest moments moments in my life. Right.
So just that level of joy that comes with being like a parent
and like that level of love that you didn't know that you have for someone else.
It's something that I could never explain beforehand.
And I wouldn't even try to explain, you know, in terms of what it feels like,
because I remember having that same feeling like, OK, yeah, I'm a love this.
OK. Yeah. But then like you hear that, you know,
the doctor, you know, you hear them cry for the first time.
And then now just, you know, you got these two being.
I have these two beings here that just love beyond anything, you know, ever.
So that's that's like emotionally the biggest change ever that has ever occurred.
You but you did mention the kids is sort of what made you pivot back or pivot
sort of your your your how you were making money for the household.
You started to think about like big bigger picture maybe or just a different
perspective on life now that you have kids.
You have different responsibilities. How did you fall into this investment
sort of opportunity given that you had the background,
living the entrepreneurial life with the travel?
How did you end up getting to a point where you said, you know,
I think this makes sense for me?
So we were living overseas for even though we traveled for a year,
we settled in many in Colombia.
So we were many for four years and our children were actually born in many.
All right. So they're dual citizens.
Between the United States and Medellin. And I have thought I thought I was going
to be in Medellin for many, many years to come.
But then Covid happened.
And then my dad got sick, too.
He was overcoming, you know, he was battling prostate cancer or whatever.
Right. So it was a combination of Covid.
My parents getting older and Carlos, my wife's parents getting older
and then having like these new children.
I wanted my like more.
What I love more than Medellin was the fact that I was in the United States.
It was the idea of my kids knowing their grandparents.
Right. So it was with that that we decided to move from those with that
that we decided to move from what's it called from Medellin back to Texas
to be closer to family. That's happening. Right.
I was also say that in my latest business,
my brother called the Black Business School that we started about six years ago.
We did. We've done really well with that. We've bootstrapped that.
So what we do is help African-Americans to obtain a culturally relevant,
practical education and all things wealth building at an affordable price.
So we've been really successful in terms of bootstrapping that to many million
millions of dollars of revenue.
One hundred fifty thousand students over the over the last six years or so.
And that's great. And I love the impact.
I love, love, love the community impact that we've actually made on that particular front.
But I still wanted to do something a little bit bigger. Right.
So instead of talking about seven figure types of companies,
what would it be like to own and operate a nine figure type of business? Right.
And I didn't know how to make companies grow from seven figures to nine figures.
And I didn't know how companies are actually funded to make that happen,
because we bootstrap our business to the point where it is now.
So that's when I decided to make that pivot, to make that that's
that switch from entrepreneurship to investing, to learn how to scale an individual
company beyond seven figures and seeing what type of impact that that can have on the community.
But then also from a personal legacy wealth building type of standpoint as well.
So let's let's talk about some of that a little bit, like because you've built
different businesses, like very difficult to do just and just, you know, once.
And I think one of the most difficult things in business is the art of selling,
having clients, finding who your customer base is.
Like, can we just talk about how important it is to like understand
if you have a demand for what you're offering and how you maybe find the people
who are looking for what it is that you want to bring to the market?
It's the most important thing in business.
Like literally, when I talk to people now after.
So this is the first time I've actually ever been an employee.
So I started my you know, I started working at where I do now when I was 38, 38 years old.
And I see things from a different perspective.
And I get to see a lot of different companies now.
I think for black people, the two most important things that they could do is one,
get ownership and assets that are increasing in value.
And then two, learn how to acquire a customer. Right.
But those are the two biggest and most important skills from like wealth building
standpoint that I think that any black person should really be pursuing.
So customer acquisition is like so key in really understanding your target customer
in terms of who your audience is, who your target audience is.
And then going deep in terms of what do they believe, what do they care about?
Who are their role models? What are they thinking?
What are their fears? What are their aspirations?
Just thinking through all of that to the point where you become that individual
and it's through that identification and that discovery, you are able to craft
offers and things that resonate with that particular group.
So you can actually sell them something of value.
And the process of like that discovery is the most important skill, I think, in business.
I don't care what anyone says.
You have to learn how to sell customers and deeply understand their needs to service them
and also to get their money for something of value.
In your personal experience, what are some of the, I guess, character traits that or
just skills that help do that to the best of your like to do that at its highest level,
in your opinion? I would say ask good questions, listen and then learn how to synthesize
what you hear into something that is actionable because that's where the product development
piece actually comes into play.
But listening and asking good questions is the key to like that discovery process and
also observing too, though, right?
So you can ask people good questions, but you can also observe their behaviors,
observe their actions as well.
I think I think that's most important.
And the other thing you mentioned outside of customer acquisition was assets.
Like when we talk about assets, I'm curious, different types of assets that we can invest in.
But like what are you know, especially in today's world, we get marketed on crypto and just so
many different ways to invest your money.
Like what do you think are some core assets as you know, that the black community should
be focused on, in your opinion?
Yeah, I'm more traditional in that type of way.
All right, so I think about think about a few different things.
So, well, let me take a step back.
I created an entire framework called the Black Family Master Plan.
So it was a framework that I created out of conversations I was having with my wife.
You know, she was asking all these questions about what needed to be done.
And she was also a little upset that I was using like my skills and my, I guess, asset
or my my skill set of creating frameworks.
I was always using that for business, but not necessarily to benefit our personal lives.
Right.
So it's through a lot of that work that I created the Black Family Master Plan.
But it's basically broken down into four quadrants.
Earn, protect, sustain, connect.
So earn is how do you increase your income and income sources?
Protect is how do you go about limiting downside risk in life?
Sustain is how do you make life day to day pleasurable and fulfilling?
And the connect is how do you build those relationships with those that you care about
the most?
So in the earn quadrant, I think about a few different things.
So for me personally, entrepreneurship is key to wealth creation, wealth generation.
Some people might say your job in terms of income that you actually have by working for
someone else.
But like my friend Julian Gordon always says, what does he say?
An employee is just an entrepreneur with one client.
So that's how he kind of defines it.
Right.
But anyway, that's one piece of it.
Another piece is real estate in regards to the real estate that you own for your own
personal use.
I view that as consumption and we kind of do, we both do, but no matter, it appreciates
in value most of the time.
So there's that aspect of it.
But then also multifamily or whatever, renting single family homes, some of this cash flowing
on that perspective.
The third piece is stock market investing.
So what types of stocks do you own long term?
But really people forget that owning a stock is really just owning a piece of a large company.
Right.
So it's business ownership investing in large businesses that you own a very, very minuscule
piece of that you don't control majority of the times unless you have a billion dollars
to invest in whatever company.
And then the last piece of it is I call it micro private equity at the time, but now
it's just I'm thinking about private equity.
So are you buying into businesses that you have a smaller companies that you have a more
substantial ownership stake in?
So that's an area that I care a lot about as well.
And I'll be going out, making some acquisitions here, hopefully in the next year or so.
Okay.
Word up.
So when we talk about like that framework, can you just say the name?
Is it somewhere for people to access or is it just like in your personal bag of tricks
that's not available for people to learn more about?
Yeah.
So yes and no.
Well, it's on LinkedIn somewhere or Facebook.
I always sit up and get around to it and making it actual asset.
I still I don't know what you think.
I think I should like make that into a community or something around like the Black Family
Master Plan or whatever.
I think it's a conversation where worth having.
And I think the value in frameworks is that it gives the guardrails to have a conversation
in a constructive way.
If you've already, you know, put together and it sounds like a relative, it sounds like
a comprehensive framework that that's been thought out with, you know, it's a good discussion
piece at least a reference point to start those discussions.
And then, you know, people are going to have their own point of views, but at least it
gives like a starting point as to what you can consider for your own situation.
So I think it is something worth fleshing out even further.
I know.
And I always say that like then the real work begins of actually fleshing it out.
Like, oh, man, I got to work on this thing.
But I think that actually might be one of the things that I do.
But the answer is no, there's no place really.
I'll share it with you, though.
You can share with your community.
So look, man, let's make less.
Let's let's we got to we got to follow it up with listening, saying, yeah, we should
do that.
That's a great idea.
The framework is people, you know, that's one of the things that I think I've really
realized here recently in the past couple of years is that, you know, what may come
natural to me does not come natural to everyone else.
And the way that like I may process ideas or think that something just makes sense.
Other people doesn't even think to think about it that way at all.
To the point earlier about just exposure, letting people know that this is a good route
to take, letting people know that these are opportunities that you can access when we
provide that framework earlier in the conversation.
I think it just helps the whole you know, it helps lift everyone up in a way because
it gives even, you know, people who are struggling, who may want to get to that next level may
not be knowing how to how to literally get from A to B to C, but oh, man, here's a framework
that didn't exist.
And now it gives me some things to really think about that are tangible that I can implement
and slowly build toward the next level.
Yeah.
OK, cool.
Something on my mind, see that little push over, like, you know, give me give me over
over the hump with that.
But yeah, so I didn't answer the question.
I didn't answer the question.
You did.
And I appreciate you answering that.
And the other thing I want to talk about, like before we we run out of time is keeping
it business.
The work that you do now is it correct me if I'm if I'm off on this.
But from from what I understand, you have a mission to help diversify supply chains.
I want to just first just especially you talked about COVID, how that sort of impacted your
decision to change some things.
That term supply chain was definitely a hot topic during the COVID time period because
everything was impacted across all industries and it was supply chain, supply chain, supply
chain.
Right.
So before we even talk about like diversifying, like for the listeners, like if we could break
that down as simple as can be like, what is a supply chain when we talk about this concept
of supply chain?
What do we mean by that?
What are the what is the chain or the flow of resources necessary to produce a good or
service that accompanies to produce that good or service?
So you have this podcast and we're on Streamyard right now.
So Streamyard is part of your supply chain to produce this podcast that we're on.
Right.
But no companies of all sizes or every company has some type of supply chain with their product
and service.
And the large companies, your Fortune 500s, your Fortune 100s are spending billions and
billions of dollars to produce the products and services that are making them into those
Fortune 100, Fortune 500 types of companies.
And my thought process and what I advocate for is for more diverse companies, more Black
businesses to be a part of those supply chains, because the more that we can be suppliers
of these large corporations and government agencies, the more wealth that's brought
into our community, because the only way to succeed in the business long term is to create
a customer, to have a customer.
So the more that we can get these large corporations and businesses to be businesses to be our
customers, the better off no Black communities will be nationwide.
Let me just offer some pushback here, because I hear what you're saying from a Black community
standpoint, but if I'm a Fortune 100, why does diversifying the supply chain have any
benefit to my bottom line?
A couple of reasons.
So first, especially talking about the Browning and Blacking of the United States, companies
are facing an existential crisis in terms of demographic change.
So having a supply base that doesn't match your demographic change, you're missing a
huge opportunity to actually serve those same suppliers in those communities as actual customers.
So when you think about it from that perspective, a lot of businesses, especially the Latino
communities, they are looking at that wholeheartedly and in full force in regards to how we can
promote Latinx company right here and put that in our marketing campaigns and using
that as a way to say, look, we support your community, buy from us, we're Procter & Gamble
or Johnson & Johnson or whoever that actually may be.
But then also, it comes down to a question of business diversity.
Some of those white suppliers and those other companies that you use for 30 years or whatever,
they kind of suck, right?
And you need to open up the doors and opportunities to other types of businesses and new ways
of doing things and new strategies of doing things.
You need to open that up so you can find the best suppliers, so you can make the best products
possible for your business as well.
Yeah, because and I'm curious, does the term DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion, does the
work that you're speaking about as it relates to supply chains, does that fit under that
umbrella or are we talking something completely different here?
It should fit underneath that umbrella, but it really does.
So when you have specific DEI conversations, a lot of times that falls under in terms of
hiring and employment and what does it mean to, I guess your employees are supplying your
business with the labor necessary for you to produce that product and service.
But that's usually or oftentimes different sector than actual companies that have some
raw good that you actually need to make your particular, make your product or service.
I think the umbrella that it falls underneath more so is ESG, right?
So environmental social governance of an organization and ESG has become controversial in many circles,
but something that is definitely not going away with these corporations moving forward.
A thousand percent, I would agree with that.
So okay, if that's the case, like, okay, how do you bridge, I guess this is what you work
it on, but like, how do you bridge that gap in like helping connect these multi-billion
dollar multinational enterprises to more local, smaller, diverse suppliers who can offer them
something to benefit their bottom line as a business?
Like if I am a local entrepreneur and I produce a good or service that one of these major
companies or the government can benefit from, like, how do I get their attention to get
to take advantage of those opportunities?
And therein lies the question, right?
And I think a big problem in terms of making that happen is many of these small businesses
that you're talking about are too small to do business with these corporations and government
agencies, right?
Because you might be able to service 12 different restaurants, let's say it's a restaurant chain
or something, but McDonald's needs you to supply a thousand restaurants.
So it's building up enough capacity in these companies, in these businesses, these minority,
these black owned businesses where they can have the actual capacity to fulfill a larger
scale contract.
So that is what we've uncovered to be the biggest issue with adding more diverse businesses
to supply chain.
It's not that companies don't want to do business with black owned companies or minority businesses
or however you want to define it.
It's a lot of times the businesses are too small to do business with the Fortune 500s.
Wow.
Interesting.
Too small.
And I think this is so many different examples because when you talk about supply chains,
you talk about verticals, you talk about all the things that go into a business, it's so
many different goods and services that can be a part of a supply chain, especially at
this level of enterprise.
But I guess like with that said, what are maybe some key like pathways that you've seen
maybe have the least amount of friction and you're like getting there to that relationship?
Like if I am an aspiring business person trying to come up with the game plan on what my next
product or service might be and knowing that I'm going after this market of Fortune 100,
500 companies to do business with them long term.
In your experience, what are some of those key goods and services that you think are
going to be really at the forefront here in the near future or currently?
Well, you know, that's a simple yet slightly unexplored question that we are actively talking
about often right now.
I would first say there's a mind shift that needs to be happened to serve.
If you want to be an entrepreneur to serve a Fortune 500 company now, chances are you
won't be starting that company from scratch.
You will be acquiring some existing business and then growing and scaling, growing and
scaling from there.
Not to say it's not possible.
On the federal government side, there are programs like 8A, 8A certification, those
types of things that make it easier to get your foot in the door to do business.
But with like corporations, some have programs to kind of help scale you up if you already
have, let's say, a million dollars in revenue or seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars
of revenue.
But if you're like zero, that's very, very difficult to do.
So we've been focused on, you know, how are we identifying those larger, how are we identifying
the larger small businesses who are out here and putting fuel on the fire to help them
be able to increase their capacity more.
So if you're new to the entire space, I would just really look at, you know, what can you
look at what corporations are buying?
You can, but it's not public information.
Right.
But we're looking to make that more public.
We're looking to do that, you know, that specific type of research to really understand what
is there by.
A lot of times it's in things that have low margin types of businesses.
And that's something that we're really, really trying to change.
Right.
So we're not talking about like construction or janitorial services or whatever.
But the professional and technical types of things that have high margins are still going
to the good old boy network or even good old boy.
But then also the tried and true that they're comfortable with already actually using.
Right.
So it's really breaking into those other things that that is going to be key.
And that really comes down to relationships and being able to navigate and leverage those
relationships for for company growth.
Interesting.
That is, you know, this is this is to me, it's it's it's important work, but it's also
very like just interesting to think about because, you know, like like we've been saying,
these big companies, they they do business with a lot of vendors throughout the different
departments.
They have a lot of different needs.
And you know, going through procurement with some of these companies like negotiate, like
like they are trying to squeeze every bit of value out of every exchange with the vendor
that they possibly can.
So I like to think that if they if they have opportunities to get something that is of
the same quality, if not better for a lower price, then you know, you have a you have
a fighting chance.
Right.
But, you know, like you said, you're looking for bigger companies that that already have
an established footprint but can't get to the next level.
Similar to, you know, I'm sort of tying it up similar to yourself as an entrepreneur.
Right.
You said that you got to a certain level, but it was like, how do you go from a seven
figure to a nine figure that scalability?
Right.
So I guess I guess my question is, like, what do you think is missing typically from a business
prevented from going from seven to nine figures?
Like I know it's not one thing, but could you highlight a couple of just key items that
you really think need to be in place when you have like something really good but you
want to make it?
Really, there's like two things that you that you need.
Well, maybe three customers.
That's the number one most important thing.
My for real.
Right.
If you have enough customers out here, you know how to go about getting them and you
can scale.
You can scale yourself.
That's the most important piece of business is like acquiring that customer.
I would say after that access to capital sources and knowing how to structure the deals necessary
to get you the capital to grow your company.
Right.
So you have the bank loans, but you have different types of equity financing.
You have blended types of stuff.
There's just a lot of different ways that you can go out and get and get this money
and being prepared to actually use that capital once you actually get it.
But then that's another thing is once you get the money, you have to use it effectively.
So do you know what you're going to use that capital for?
Is it going to be just straight marketing, customer acquisition?
Is it going to be scaling your operations in terms of production, hiring people, getting
new machinery or whatever it is?
Right.
So that type of know how also limits company because there's mindset shifts that need to
occur when you continue to scale.
That's scaling every stage.
Having a $50,000 company is different than having a million dollar company.
Having a million dollar company is different than having a $10 million company.
Having $10 million companies is different than having a hundred million dollar company.
No stage is harder than the next stage.
But you just have to learn how to navigate and get through each stage of the process.
That is very true.
It's just a different toilet, but it's just a different same nature, but it's just a different
beast that you're sort of dealing with.
And you know, at least from my perspective, when we talk business, the market, like understanding
your customer base, like I understand the importance of that.
Oftentimes as entrepreneurs, the order of operations in which you do things can be like
why you don't get to the next level because you put the cart before the horse, if you
will.
So to your point about like marketing, customer acquisition, in my experience, I've noticed
oftentimes, sometimes entrepreneurs like that there's an imbalance of quality marketing,
but then not being able to meet the needs of what you just marketed to, for example.
So you have like this great marketing campaign and you got everybody's attention, you have
the customers, but then you can't fulfill the needs of those customers and then you
might lose them over time.
From your point of view, when you're trying to go to market and figure out like how to
take full advantage, like what do you think is like from an order of operations standpoint?
Do you feel like it's more important to invest in that marketing acquisition, even if say,
maybe you don't have the full thing ready to deliver?
Like I guess I'm curious, like we see it so often, GoFundMe's crowdfunding for a product
that's under design, still getting developed, all you see is a prototype and then they got
all these orders and then you can't meet the orders because it never gets fulfilled.
From a business standpoint, do you feel like that sort of approach is beneficial or like
a smart thing to do?
Are you better off doing the opposite and really making sure from an operations standpoint,
you have all that locked down and then go try to capture as big a market possible?
How do you balance both of those?
I'm always a fan of getting the customer before you actually have the product.
The reason is if you build a product without the customer, you don't know if customers
are actually going to come and purchase the product.
Then also you lose the opportunity to make your product better because you're not getting
that real life, real time feedback in regards to like, all right, we need to change this,
we need to change that because customers are telling us that that's what they actually
want to see.
You wouldn't know that unless you actually talk to the customers and put something in
front of them that like, this is actually what's going to look like, what's going to
be, what it's going to do.
Then them giving you feedback in regards to what has been offered in front of them.
The worst thing in the world is to build something that nobody actually wants.
You really need to assess demand and make sure that people actually want something and
prototype that and go from there versus actually building something because it's not, what's
that movie, Field of Dreams from 1990?
They build it, it's not necessarily they'll be coming for you and coming to you.
I would say build it.
I would say see if they come and see what people want and then actually build off their
specifications.
Jules, man.
We're going to start to close out, but I'm curious, in doing this sort of work, working
with other entrepreneurs to help them scale, what have been some of the early lessons that
you've picked up in this sort of role?
That's only one piece of my role right now, eventually it'll be like the largest piece.
Right now I work for a VC fund out of Oklahoma, out of Tulsa.
We are the arm of a large foundation here called the D.A.
And we're deploying a hundred million dollars in basically the state of Oklahoma to recruit
the best talent in terms of founders to the city in hopes that they grow the best companies
possible and provide jobs and employment for the residents here as well and also make us
more money in terms of return on investment type of standpoint.
So what I've learned so far with working with the companies is that there are a lot of passionate
people out here who are willing to put that hustle, willing to put that grind into making
the business work.
I think a lot of founders don't know how to sell and tell their story very well in a deeper
type of format.
So some get to the point where they can do a two or three minute pitch about their business.
But if you ask them like deeper questions in terms of the product market fit and pushback
and all those other types of things, if you really want to have a deep understanding about
a subject, they struggle, they fumble with actually answering those types of questions.
I would say for potential entrepreneurs is to deeply and really understand your business
and also the core value proposition of your company so that you can sell it to potential
customers and also potential employees and investors as well.
And that's missing from a lot of entrepreneurs, especially when they first get started.
When we say core value prop, can you just explain what you mean by that?
So your value proposition.
So why am I going to choose this business to solve my particular product, especially
over competitors or substitutes that could do the same thing and solve my same problem?
It is so key.
It is so key and without, you know, like you said, it all goes back to that, to that access
to information.
You know, you don't know what you don't know when you're out here on the grind and you
have that willingness to put in the work, but you're missing some of that key information,
man, it can, it can really like almost make you resent the work you're doing.
It can sometimes the ignorance that that liability of ignorance that exists when doing business,
like it can cost you in the long run or in the short term.
So having this information, I think is going to be so valuable for entrepreneurs listening.
You know, you got to work on your pitch.
Like everybody's got to know how to sell.
And if you've got a business and you don't understand some of these core elements that
he's speaking about, can they learn this at the black business school?
Like I'm curious, like, is it some of the things that you guys help help the community
learn more about?
Yeah, exactly.
So we have three fundamental pillars of wealth building for us, entrepreneurship, stock market
investing, and real estate investing.
And when it comes to the entrepreneurship piece, that's core and fundamental is learning
how to sell, but selling isn't the thing and the activities that people often associated
with it and think that it is.
A lot of time it is understanding customer problems, the impact of those problems and
figuring out how to explain how your solution fixes those problems that they're having their
own individual lives.
Right.
That's the basis of selling.
So it's going through listening, really understanding what people are going through.
Got to have a, or not say you got to, but when we talk sales, it's definitely more of
a consultative approach, understanding the needs of your audience and making sure you
speak to how you can address those needs and tying and connecting the dots is definitely
the way to go.
We've gone over your background, you shared some of your stories as it relates to your
entrepreneurial efforts, some of what you're doing now with the community.
Are there any last closing words that you want to leave the audience with, whether it
be to, we'll keep them posted on the framework.
We'll have to circle back and figure out how we can work together even to maybe even have
another episode and talk through the framework even more.
Maybe we record it.
That'd be fun.
Yeah.
Let people kind of hear that, but anything that you want to leave the people with, any
final words or anything you want to let them know you got going on.
I really just appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and your audience in regards
to what we're doing here in Tulsa and around supplier diversity.
Yeah.
Really about family and life and your overarching motto and definitely everything else too.
I appreciate that.
You got to stay focused, but I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today.
Ma'am, I appreciate you joining in case y'all are wondering or wanting to learn more.
I know Lawrence, do you still do the newsletter on LinkedIn as well?
Man, with these kids, I had to shut something down in that awesome day.
I might be doing a Black Business Monthly or something like that.
We'll see on that particular front, but follow me on LinkedIn.
Find me on LinkedIn, Lawrence Watkins.
I think it's, or handle Lawrence, L-A-W-R-E-N-C-E-M as in Matthew Watkins.
So find me at the Black Business School.
I'll make sure on the follow-up when we put out the edited episode, I'll put the links
for the Black Business School, put the links in and make sure that people can connect with
you.
For everybody listening, whether you're here on Instagram, here on YouTube, make your way
over to YouTube, hit that subscribe button if you're listening.
This is the G-S**t Podcast where we focus on family, friends, finances, freedom, and
our future and f**k everything else.
Shout out to Lawrence Watkins for joining us.
We are out of here.
Make sure you hit that subscribe button.
This is the G-S**t Podcast.
We are out of here.