Welcome one and all to episode 411 of Signals
from Mars. I'm your host, Victor. And for this
episode, this is the Hooligan Nation crossover.
I welcome my good friend Anthony Shinto over
from that show. I've guested on their show quite
a bit over the last few months. And it only made
sense to bring Tony over here. I mentioned this
at the beginning of the episode, but to me, he's
Tony. I've known him since I played Little League
Baseball, and we would geek out at the lunch
table. He was, what, a sixth grader, and I was
a seventh grader, and he snuck his brother's
Vinnie Vincent invasion. Boys are going to rock.
Pink. Single from the fan club. Into school.
And we were freaking. I was freaking out. Checking
that thing out. Because I'd never seen a pink
vinyl. Was waiting for Vinny to do something.
Huge fan of Kiss as you guys know. And. When
he connected with me months ago. And started
asking me about. Different podcast related stuff.
And then ultimately asked me about. Being on
the show. I was. Yeah, of course. I know that
there are people that get approached all the
time. It's happened to me where I'll approach
someone and say, hey, you know, I'd love to have
you on the show. I think we'd have a really good
conversation. And it turns to, well, how many
streams or downloads do you have? Because I want
to make sure that I'm not wasting my time. Like,
seriously? Yeah, all right. So I'm going to pass.
Like, well, you know, well, well, why? Like,
well, you know, I just want to have a cool conversation
about music. I get it. You're into it for the
streams. You're into it for the downloads. If
it isn't what makes sense to you, then you don't
want to do it. And that's cool. And to me, what
makes sense is having a cool music related conversation.
And neither one of those is wrong. because I
think ultimately you got to do what you think
is best for your show. And I've had people here
in Spain, for example, where I've said, Hey,
you know, it would be a cool crossover opportunity
where, you know, I could have my friends or my,
my friends. Yeah. My listeners of the show, check
you, check what you're doing out. I go, especially
if you're looking to get involved. And doing
shows in English. And I've gotten, well, you
know, we pull in 50 ,000 streams a week. Unless
you can get me half of that, then I'm not doing
your show. I'm like, okay, no problem. Thought
it'd be a cool idea, but I'm not going to force
it. I'm not going to push you into doing anything
that you don't want to do. So that's cool. Totally
fine by me. There's really nothing I can do to
get people to, you know, whatever. I'm not putting
a gun to anyone's head. You want to do it? Cool.
If not, that's fine too. Cool thing is Rocco,
who is his co -host. It refers to him as him.
And every time I hear him say him, I have to
chuckle because I remember Tom DeLuise's character
in the Cannonball Run movies, Captain Chaos,
where he would refer to him as him. I'm half
expecting Rocco to put on the cape and all that
stuff. Anyway, quick shout out to my patrons.
Love you guys. Thank you for your support. Thank
you for listening to this episode. And let's
get on to the episode with my good friend, Tony
Sinto of Hooligan Nation. Here we go. Welcome
one and all to the March 28th, 2025 edition of
Signals from Mars. I'm your host, Victor. And
joining me is... See, I was thinking of this
all week, how I was going to intro you. I've
been on Hooligan Nation a few times already.
I will be on Hooligan Nation in the future as
well, so long as the editor didn't axe all of...
My recent appearance, who knows, maybe it didn't
make the cut that anything is is possible. You
made the cut. But. See, I was I was trying to
think of a clever lyric and I and I forgot I
had this all week. I knew I should have written
it down. But anyway, someone who recognizes that
naughty girls need love, too. Yeah, I do. And
he just wants to have some fun. Let's not forget
that. It is Mr. Anthony Shinto, known to me since
for a very long time as Tony. So even though
on the show, Rocco may call him Anthony the whole
time, it's Tony. It's just a habit for me. It's
better than the other things that I've been called.
Yeah, there you go. So welcome aboard. It is
great to have you here. Thank you for having
me. Yeah, and we've known each other for a very
long time. I thoroughly enjoy the show that you
guys do. I've been catching up all week. My reference
there, my Samantha Fox reference, had to do with
the Women of Kiss episode that you guys recently
released. Unlike my show, a ton of research went
into that because of all the little details and
all of the names that came out. And I'm sure
that more could have come out of there. But I
was enthralled throughout the episode. Today,
you guys have released the Alive 3 episode. No,
that was Wednesday. Yeah. See, this is me catching
up on shows. today what did you guys release
today uh no shit i gotta remember the title of
it um you know we gotta have catchy titles too
um today's video is six strings of glory the
greatest rock guitarists okay it's our uh Well,
it was supposed to be our top 10 list, but then
we ended up having about 35 honorable mentions
on top of that. Trying to keep our podcast like
under three hours sometimes, and it's difficult.
Right. And this is the first time that you guys
have kind of gone out of KISS territory, though,
correct? No, it's not the first time. We did
an episode on Jackal and Jesse James Debray.
Oh, and I was on an episode where we talked about
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame is another one. And I think
that's the only time so far because we're trying
to get through album reviews to be able to open
ourselves up. to be able to do everything else.
I didn't want to, I didn't want to jump around
without first building a base and doing album
reviews. Right. Well, that makes sense. The,
what I find great about the album reviews as
well is that, um, your, your cohost Rocco, John,
him, um, he's listening to a lot of this stuff
with a fresh pair of ears. And it's funny because
there are some times where I'm listening to the
episodes and he like kills a song that I absolutely
love. I'm like, no, that's one of the only good
songs on the album. But he'll be like, yeah,
this is boring, unorganized, whatever. And I'm
like, all right, not everyone has to share the
same opinion, but that's cool. I mean, and the
other neat thing is hearing him talk about certain
things for the first time. I've mentioned this
to you guys before, like the other day on one
of the episodes I listened to, he talked about
Greta Van Fleet or Volbeat, for example. And
it's funny because a lot of that is similar to
the conversations that I have with my kids where
they're listening to bands for the first time
and just having that excitement of talking about
a band is awesome. I love hearing that stuff.
There are two things that I... love from podcasting.
One is hearing people get excited about listening
to new music and or bands for the first time.
And the other is having somebody say, uh, my
wife's going to get pissed off at me because
thanks to you, I spent X amount of money on buying
an album that I was turned on to due to your
show or due to Patreon or, or whatever. So hearing
him talk about that stuff always, you know, is
a thrill to me. I like the varying opinions.
Yeah. I like what I like, but I like to throw
on, for instance, your podcast and you're talking
about something that doesn't sound like music
to me sometimes. Right. But I like the opinion
that, you know, it's like with him and I sometimes.
We have to go out of our way not to sound like
we're mimicking each other because our musical
tastes are so alike in some ways. And it's also
one of the, you know, you were talking a minute
ago about a Kiss song that you liked that he
hated. Right. But at least for me, it can change
week to week, month to month. You know, we just
did we just filmed an album review for Carnival
of Souls. OK, but an album that I've probably
been killing since it came out, probably listened
to once or twice. Right. Because it was labeled
as grunge. I just walked away from it and I spent
two weeks. researching it and doing all the homework
on it. And when it came time to do the album
review, it turned out a whole lot better than
I expected it to be. And I liked, I think I liked
six, six or eight out of 12 songs, which a month
ago I would have guessed that there was nothing
anywhere close to that. Right. And you know what
a year from now I may like all 12 or I may not.
I may like two of them. I just, my opinion changes.
Yeah. And that's, that's cool. I mean, there's
a lot of things you guys recently did hot in
the shade. And it's funny because there's a lot
of that album that I agree with you guys on.
And it made me also think back to the fact that
when that album came out, I listened to that.
Almost nonstop. I remember the summer that that
came out or the summer after it came out, coming
over here to Europe and listening to that album
nonstop that summer and thinking how great it
was. And then all these years later, you know,
you start to listen to things and you're like,
wow, that. really was not that good. But as a
kid, you had that kind of invested interest that,
well, you had to buy it. So you gave it maybe
50 listens because I have to like this, you know,
it's Kiss. I paid for it. I have to like it.
And then at the end of the day, you know, all
these years later, you grow out of it and you're
like, yeah, it was. Really not that good. And
now with streaming, at least for me, every song
gets about 15, 30 seconds. If you don't catch
me in 15, 30 seconds, I just hit the skip button
and move on to the next one. Right. It's a much
bigger difference. And also, one of the coolest
things about doing a podcast, at least for me,
was I've learned that my tastes have changed.
as i've aged yeah there are certain things that
i liked as a kid that i'm not as crazy about
anymore and there's a lot of things the elder
jumps out look the elder is never going to be
a great record in my opinion no matter what you
do with it right but it's a whole lot better
at 50 years old than it was at 11 or 12 years
old right And I can't answer why that is other
than, you know, it's almost 40 years of experience
and my tastes have changed. Yeah. And now as
we're talking, I'm remembering something that
I wanted to tell you the other day when I sent
you a barrage of messages. So you were talking
about Lisa Hartman. Oh, Lisa Hartman. Okay. She's
married to Mark Goodman. Is that correct? No.
She dated Mark Goodman. Lisa Hartman is married
to Clint Black. Okay. Country star. What was
the connection to Mark Goodman? One of them was
married to Mark Goodman. Okay. And I can't remember.
I can't remember who it was. Okay. So regardless,
as you're saying that. I remembered that somebody,
two people that we went to school with, and one
of them that you later worked with is actually
related to Mark Goodman. Really? Yes. Is that
an answer you can give me? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. The Michowskis. The Michowskis
are related to Mark Goodman. No kidding. Yeah.
And the reason that I know that is because Melissa
used to always say it all the time. Oh yeah,
that's my cousin. And I forgot that you mentioned
it during the episode and it went off. And then
when it came time for me to mention it, I blanked.
I completely forgot. And now I can't remember
who the woman was. Yeah, that's, that's fine
though. I mean, I think the list grew to 55 total.
Right. And I had to cut it off at 55. It was
more than a full -time job to search the Internet
and then try to fact -check it as much as possible
and then try to find some kind of photo evidence,
which we were probably about 50 -50. Right. Of
being able to find a photo with the member of
KISS. So a lot of work went into that one. I'm
not looking to do that every week, that's for
sure. But it was just such an interesting topic.
Yeah. And and not for I mean, I guess at first
it all started from Samantha Fox. Right. I mean,
it just opened the door for me to do an episode
that had Samantha Fox in it. And then as as time
went on and it started to roll, it became all
well, we can put Samantha Fox where we can put
this one we can put. And then it moved out of
what all of these women look like really quickly.
And it turned into if you looked at them in separate
groups. Gene's dating, at least to me, looked
like it was based on business. He was trying
to date women that were more of a celebrity than
him or could help him lift his celebrity higher.
Right. And Paul Stanley wanted to. date nothing
but beautiful women. 90 % of them were blonde,
so he's got a type that doesn't make him a bad
guy in any way. For Peter, in his peak of stardom,
you had to be a playboy playmate. At least that's
what it looks like from our research. And then
you look at Ace, who dated regular women. He
wasn't interested in stardom. He wasn't interested
in playmates. He wasn't interested in anything
that could make him more of a celebrity. In Ace's
personality, he was all over the map. Right.
It turned out to be an interesting research product.
So if I could have done that in school, I would
have probably done better. Well, we didn't have
all the same accoutrements to help us out. Right.
Back then. So one of the things where I think
we were very much on the same side of things,
and I'm going to preface this. By mentioning
something that you've alluded to a few times
on your show, and it's something that I think
is 100 % spot on, and it's something that I've
always said. If people don't like my show, they
don't like your show, they don't like KISS for
that matter, or any other thing. Or maybe they
claim to be fans and just take a negative side
of things. on everything. I don't know that having,
you know, an operation performed on you, going
to the dentist, you know, there aren't people
that have podcasts about that, you know, Root
Canal 2025 or, you know, Root Canal Nation or,
you know, or. Stuff like that. And what I'm getting
at is. And this is something where with my old
podcast, Galaxy of Geeks, we always used to say
Star Wars fans are the best. Star Wars fans are
the worst. Absolutely. And I'm starting to. See
that. Maybe because I'm paying too much attention
now, but with Kiss pages and groups and this
and that. If you don't like what the band is
doing, there's like a million other things you
can focus on instead of just beating the dead
horse of, oh, they're doing this, they're doing
that. It's obviously a cash grab. It's obviously
this. Last time I checked, no one's putting a
gun to my head to pay to buy that Strutter single.
No one is telling me that. The only reason that
I'm a, or the only way to be a true kiss fan
is if I become jeans Butler or roadie or whatever,
you know, there's just some asinine connotations
where I, I don't get why there's so much venom
at this point in time. When, if something displeases
you so much, why not move on to something else?
Look, I equate this. I'm a Raiders fan. And most
Raiders fans have been killing the Raiders for
20, 25 years. Right. But they still show up every
year. They still back the team. We're all the
same way in August. The Raiders are going to
the Super Bowl. And then by October, everybody
jumps off the sinking ship and starts to kill
all the moves that they loved in March, April,
May, and June. All the things they saw in the
new coach hire. Oh, everybody loves Pete Carroll
right now. If they're, you know, one in four
in October, they'll be calling for him to get
fired. The same thing with KISS. To me, when
it I mean, in our case, a KISS podcast was not
planned. It just it wasn't a planned thing at
all. But when we started to talk about it, we
looked around and said, who else could we talk
about every week? And never run out of any material.
And part of that is their history. And the other
part of that, as we're seeing currently, is they're
75 years old and they're continuing to create
history, whether you like it or you don't. There's
always something to talk about. We've done I
think we've done three segments in three weeks
over all new. Shit shows that they've created,
starting with the Strutter single. And I think
I said then, Gene Simmons doesn't have his hand
in your pocket. You're a big boy. Like, if you
want to spend $50 ,000 on that gold single, you
knock yourself out. For me, I'm not doing that.
But I don't knock Kiss, Gene and Paul, Pop House.
Whoever it is at this point, and everybody thinks
they know, but from my knowledge and history
with this band, I find it very hard to believe
that they sold everything and have no control.
They're both way too much of control freaks for
that. Right. So they put it out there. If you
don't like it, if you don't want it, don't buy
it. I'm not going to buy it. And then putting
out the $2 ,500 one, not good enough. I'm not
buying that. I don't want it. I'm not going to
spend $50 ,000 on something to hang on my wall.
Right. I'm sure as hell not going to play a $50
,000 single record. Like, it's playable, I'm
told. Yeah. But I would not spend $50 ,000 on
something and then play it personally. But I
don't knock Gene or Paul or Pop House or Dr.
McGee Management or whoever it may be. I don't
knock them for putting it out. I mean, I don't
want to steal your thunder from your show. I'm
not spending $12 ,500. to walk around as Gene's
personal assistant and roadie. But somebody will.
Oh, yeah. I can almost guarantee more than one
somebody will. And they'll probably leave there
ecstatically happy that they got the experience.
Good for them. I think it's great that KISS still
makes this available. I mean, I feel like it
gives me good material. And other fans, if they
have the money or they want to spend the money,
good for them. They can spend the money. I don't
think there's anything wrong with it. I mean,
you're in Spain. I'm in a capitalist country.
So you can't knock Gene and Paul for being capitalists.
And I think I said this. I said this in one of
the episodes that hasn't aired yet for us. We
are fans. We have to understand Gene and Paul
are not fans. Gene and Paul are in the music
business. We're not. That's a great distinction
between us and them. So the fact that. You know,
Gene wants to throw out $12 ,500 roadie experience.
I don't knock him for that. I won't pay him for
it, but I don't knock him for doing it. He's
in the music business. No matter how much money
he's got, it ain't never going to be enough for
him. Right. It's still part of the conquest.
It's still part of the game for him. And the
funny thing is, so many bands have knocked them
for doing a lot of this stuff. Yeah. And then
they all follow and do it. And they follow and
do it. You can mention Motley Crue. You can mention
Van Halen. You can mention Aerosmith. You know,
when the meet and greet started, oh, you know,
I'll never do that to my fans. Not this tour
anyway. You know, when the music business changed,
they all did it. Absolutely. So make money. Yeah.
Yeah. And as you're saying, and this is something
that. I don't remember who I was talking to about
this. I think we may have mentioned it to you
off camera with the last show that we did. If
you've won the lottery and a $50 ,000 single
is affordable, why not? But at this point in
time, you know, in my case, I don't want that.
Similar to you. I don't want that. But if somebody
wants to go ahead and do it, can afford it, the
band is offering it, I have no problem with the
band offering it or somebody going ahead and
pulling the trigger. It's their money. They know
what to do with it. I mean, in my case, I can
have Elon Musk money. I'm not buying a $50 ,000
gold single. Right, right, right. And I'm not
going to work for Gene and paying him to do it.
But I have no issue with who has the money that
wants to do it. My only concern, and it's not
my business, but my only concern is I just wonder
how many people are going to seriously put themselves
out because they got to have the gold single.
or they got to go roadie for Gene. That's concerning.
I understand that it's not concerning to Gene.
Right. But as fans, it's a little concerning
to me that some guy's going to lose his house
because he's got to go roadie for Gene for a
day. Right. Have you heard his rationale on the
price? Yeah, I did. I actually I heard a little
bit of it last night. Actually, what what helped
Gene out is what's her name? Siwa. Whatever her
name is, she's some I don't even know what kind
of music she's some pop act. She just dropped
the same thing pretty much as him. It's like
six thousand dollars and it's stirred back up.
all of his controversy again so the last i don't
know probably the last 24 hours he's getting
more press and more press which i still think
that's what's behind all of this yeah yeah yeah
i i agree same thing with the single and i'm
sure there's gonna be more things like that i
mean today the um off the soundboard was just
released, the new one, with Bruce on it and from
the Asylum Tour. I know a lot of people were
having issues with the images for that because
it's just Gene and Paul, and this is something
that I thought of listening to your Hot in the
Shade episode. The video for Rise to It is the
first time that we ever saw images of just the
two of them that was kind of the pioneering thing
where now they've come back with asylum and off
the soundboard and we're getting well we're getting
no got yanked but it was that image of just the
two of them uh the same thing happened with um
There was one of the previous reissues where
it was similar, where it was an image and everyone
else was cropped out and it was just Gene and
Paul as well. And somebody was joking about the
fact that with the 50th anniversary of Dress
to Kill, it was just going to be the two of them.
And I actually responded to somebody where I
cropped everything out and it was just their
faces. I said, no, no, no. If they were to do
it. It would be this. You wouldn't even see New
York in the background. It would just be their
two faces. You wouldn't see the suits. You wouldn't
see anything. Well, I think because of the backlash
that happened over the, it was a t -shirt, the
asylum t -shirt. I don't think that'll happen
now. And it's a money thing. And I have heard
that someone asked Bruce Kulik. who said no one
ever approached him, which I have a problem with
that. If you approach Bruce for his likeness
and he comes up with a crazy number or something,
same thing for Eric Carr's estate. That's one
thing. But Pop House, allegedly bravado, it's
all the same to me. They allegedly never approached
him and they got beat down. pretty bad at least
online that where they pulled it the difference
is they don't have to do that with ace and peter
because they own they own everything and that's
their fault so i don't think you'll ever i think
you'll probably never see that again but i definitely
don't think you'll ever see it with the original
kiss i mean all you got to do is go on kiss online
And they're plastered all over the place. And
Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer have been tossed
in the garbage. Right. Which I don't agree with
that either. And that's that's a large part of,
you know, the Kiss fans that get labeled as haters.
They are era fans. I only like the original four.
I only like 73 to 79. I only like this. I only
like that. For me, I can stand all eras. My only
hang -up is putting Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer
in Peter Criss and Ace Frehley's makeup. And
costumes, but I'm I don't I mean, I play with
Tommy. It's funny to me, but I have no issue
with Tommy as a player as long as he plays like
Tommy Thayer. Right. And you take the makeup
off. Like 2001, 2002, whenever it started to
fall apart, if they would have took the makeup
off and put Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer. Back
in the band with no makeup. I'm good with it
because I got, what, 22 more years of Kiss. Right.
So I was always okay with it. Now, I'm a little
more restrained than some fans are. I mean, I
have subscribers on my channel that's just straight
out, I hate it. Well, why do you hate it? I just
hate it. Well, that means you just hate it because
it isn't what you think you like. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. You know? Yeah, there's a lot of looking
over my shoulder to see who's around me to see
what my opinion is going to be instead of, as
you're saying, oh, well, you know, I don't like
the fact that, you know, he wore this or he did
that, but I can appreciate him as a player. Okay.
Instead of, no, I hate it because I hate it.
No, well, why do you hate it? Oh, because I've
got Fred to the left of me and I've got Bob to
the right of me. They hate it, so I have to hate
it as well. And people think it's cool to hate
on everything at this point. I mean, that's the
society that we live in. We talked about this
in the last episode. that we filmed for my show.
I lost my place now. Now I forgot. That's fine.
It happens. I'll remember it 20 minutes from
now. Sure. And you can bring it back up. That's
no problem. The other thing that I did want to
mention is the postponement of the gene dates.
Now, how much does this have to do with this
Vegas announcement, do you think? Do you think
this is something where Paul has said to him,
you know, if you keep playing dates the rest
of this year, it's going to cheapen people going
out to Vegas and seeing us? Is it that just something
better has come along for Gene's time? Or I know
there's a lot of people out there saying, see,
he didn't sell all the tickets that he was supposed
to sell. So for me, I think the only people you're
going to get to a Gene Simmons show, to an Ace
Fraley show, to, for that matter, a solo Paul
Stanley show, are hardcore KISS fans. Right.
You're not going to bring in the fair weather
fans that like the makeup and the costumes and
the stage show. And all of that. I think that's
part of the problem. You got Gene up there and
he's playing songs and he's clearly playing what
he wants to play. Right. So unless you're a hardcore
fan that just has to go. I don't know if that's
going to be on the top of your list because of
how the music business has changed and everybody
tours almost all year around. With the economy,
the way it is, and, you know, both husband and
wife and most households have to work to make
ends meet and all of this, you got to choose
what's your priority. Right. And then when you're
Gene Simmons, and look, again, I don't knock
Gene for this, but Gene wants what Gene wants.
So if you can't give him what he wants, he'll
just cancel it. I mean, it's not a bad business
move by him. I'm sure there's Kiss fans that
are pissed off about it because I think he canceled
17 dates and he left nine dates. Now, we intend
on going to one of those dates that's in Bethlehem,
Pennsylvania. And as far as right now, it's still
on. So, you know, I'm not pissed at Gene for
it. But again, I think it's a dollars and cents
thing. You know Gene has a set fee that he wants
because he's Gene. And if the promoters can't
make their money back, they're probably – and
I know nothing about the music business officially.
But my guess is ticket sales aren't going very
well. They call Gene up and say, hey, look, a
quarter is sold. You got to take less of a minimum.
And he says no. And they cancel it. It kind of
makes sense. I don't think one has to do with
the other. Right. OK. That's my personal belief.
I think this all works in favor of Pop House.
It, of course, all works in favor of Gene and
Paul, because if Gene goes out there, it keeps
the Kiss name out there. The avatars are coming
allegedly in 2027. I think this is all linked
to 2027. I think it's a five -year plan. And
at the end of 2027, 2028, we're all going to
be sitting around saying, damn it, they're geniuses
again. Because they just keep their name in the
press. 2024, they both went out and did the podcast
tours. 2025 hit. Now we're going to put out a
$50 ,000 gold single. Gene's going to do a roadie
for a day. Boom, now we're going to storm Vegas.
I think it's just going to keep coming. And people
like us are going to keep talking about KISS.
Right. And people that are watching this. are
going to keep watching and listening about KISS.
Right. We're their conduit to making more money.
Good point. What is your limit to go to this
Vegas show? Have you put a price tag on it? Is
it something that you've entertained or is this
something that doesn't even interest you? Have
you seen the prices yet? To my knowledge, the
prices haven't been released. I've heard a few
rumors. The initial rumor was five grand, which
someone else kind of shot down and said, no,
I'm hearing that it's closer to a thousand. Do
you want the numbers? Yes. What are the numbers?
Let me move some things around here. So anybody
that wants the numbers, the website is kissarmystormsvegas
.com. Okay. You want me to go through and detail
what each of these packages are or just give
you the prices? No, you can detail the packages.
That way we can talk about them. The first package
is a signature experience package. And that is
$1 ,109 total per person with fees plus taxes.
Okay. And that includes, I've got to find. Now
they won't show it to you. Oh, here it is. Three
nights stay at Virgin Hotels with reduced prices
on nights pre - and post -event. Kiss Unmasked
electric show with, this is a change, Paul Stanley
and Gene Simmons and special guests. With choice
of tickets in loft section, standing room only.
Q &As with members of KISS and Doc McGee. KISS
Storms Vegas poster signed by members of the
band. One curated KISS Storms Vegas gift. Photo
with KISS memorabilia. Not with KISS. Not with
KISS memorabilia. Okay. Memorabilia. Access.
Here's your picture with the KISS air guitar
strings. Yeah. Yeah, you know what? If I had
a choice, that's probably what I'd take my picture
with. Access to artist sets, access to activities
and panels, and a collectible laminate and lanyard.
That is the lowest package, and that's $1 ,109
plus tax and flight and airport transfer and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The Signature Plus
experience. is $13 .89, includes everything that
I said before, plus round -trip shuttle, airport
transportation. The exclusive experience package
is $28 .29, and that includes everything in the
first two packages, plus Kiss Unmasked electric
set with choice of premium seat close to the
stage. Kiss Unmasked photo, early entry to Kiss
member Q &As, early entry to panels, early access
to merch store, private car service to and from
airport, on -site Vibey experience. I don't know.
And then the top package is $51 .49 plus taxes.
That includes everything from the other packages
plus premium seat in gold circle, closest stage,
early entry and priority seating at KISS member
Q &As, access to KISS soundcheck, KISS unmasked,
signed set list, and a commemorative KISS event
coin. I think you started this out by asking
me. Yes. So I really expected this to be like
a $10 ,000 weekend. Right. I put my limit at
about $1 ,000 and they came in close enough that
as long as it, I'm not going to pay. The extra
$50, they want you to pay the extra $50 to join
the fan club to get access to pay for this early.
I'm not going to do that. But if they're still
available, I think it's April 2nd. I'm probably
going to buy it and go. Okay. Just in case it's
a one -off. I don't think it's a one -off. Yeah,
I don't think so either. And I also don't think
it's going to be a tour. I think this is going
to be, and this is something that I've been saying
for years that they should have done before all
of the end of the road shit. End of the road
should have been five years ago, 10 years ago,
because once Paul's voice started to go, they
should have cut way back on the shows. And I
mentioned it. I started mentioning this a long
time ago and saying, look, you're packing these
cruises, do five cruises a year, do selective
dates a year in big cities, rotate them on a
yearly basis, do a total of 10 to 20 shows a
year. People will travel to see them and they'll
pay. And this is what I think they're going to
be doing with this if they're smart. They'll
do it once a year now at this point because I
don't think they'll do it with the makeup, especially
after the avatars come out. And they're dangling
the carrot already because the description is
so ambiguous. And friends. Who's am friends?
Is that Ace and Peter? I wouldn't call them friends.
Business acquaintances. I don't even know if
I could call them that, but. OK, Bruce, Tommy,
Eric. You don't have to deal with costumes. You
don't have to deal with makeup at this point.
You can pop people in and out. But I mean, beyond
that, what what other what other friends do you
realistically think that they can bring up? Do
you think we're going to see? a Jean Beauvoir
playing bass on Thrills in the Night or something
like that? I think it would be interesting if
they did that. I don't think they're going to.
I think maybe everybody jumped on the Friends
part. And at least for me, I looked past the
Friends because, you know, Gene. Gene has said
he has no friends, number one. Right. So I don't
think that's it. I think, again, there's a five
-year plan. I think they're not going to announce
the five -year plan until at least after this
is over. They want to see how this is going to
go off. They did another. Genius thing. We've
talked about this before. If you're not that
popular, what do you do to gain popularity? You
have to go away. Well, the unmasked Kiss has
went away for 30 years. Very true. In my case,
telling me Kiss is not going to wear makeup,
is not going to wear costumes. If you add in
a completely different set list, and then you
throw Bruce Kulik to me as the carrot, well,
now you might be on to something. As long as
Paul can sing it. Because we know they all can
stand out on stage and play. But Paul's got to
be able to sing it. And look. I do not feel the
need to travel to Las Vegas to hear Love Gun
played for the millionth time live. But would
I go to Vegas to hear them play Hide Your Heart
live? I just threw this out on a segment that
we're airing Wednesday. How about Bruce jumping
up there and playing I Walk Alone live? I'd go
to Vegas for that. I'd go to Vegas to hear Eric
Singer sing Hooligan or Black Diamond or something
that they didn't regularly play. Have Paul play,
you know, my choice was Love in Chains. You know,
cater the set list. For what Paul can probably
sing and then throw in. You know, Gene deep dives.
I don't want to hear War Machine again. I don't
want to hear I Love It Loud. I don't want to
hear God of Thunder. For those that do, good
for you. I want to hear Radioactive Live. Maybe
Charisma. What was the asshole song? Was it called
Asshole? It was called Asshole, yeah. You know
what? I'd like to see that played live. That
kind of stuff. I think Rocco brought up Eric
Singer singing Young and Wasted. Absolutely.
Let's go with that. If they set a set list like
that, and they actually... And Paul was able
to sing his parts on that. I think they're on
to something. And I personally think if it all
works, you're going to see a residency maybe
once a month. What does that do for them? Oh,
that brings business to Kiss Mini Golf, Kiss
Museum. When the avatars open, it's an attraction
to bring people to the avatars. And they got
to go out there one Saturday night a month to,
you know, in a 5 ,000 seat arena. I think that's
a slam dunk for them. They're going to sell merch.
They're going to keep their names out there.
They're going to bring business to their other
business ventures out there. But it's all and
I think it replaces the cruise. I don't think
you're going to see a cruise again. Right. No,
I agree with that. I mean, allegedly, Gene has
a house in Vegas. Right. And the avatars or the
building is being built supposedly in Vegas.
So Kiss headquarters is pretty much moving to
Vegas. And it's I think it's a 30 minute flight.
From L .A. to Vegas. So you fly in Saturday morning,
you play a show Saturday night, you fly out Sunday
morning. It's a slam dunk, no lose for them as
long as Paul can sing the material once a month.
And then as time goes on, maybe not. You might
see it in November. You might see Ace. I think
Peter's checked out. I think Peter's retired,
and I don't think you're going to get Peter back.
But Ace, you might see him in November, and you
might see him once in a while to come out there
for the monthly residency if they did that. And
you have to, have to, have to include Bruce,
who, oh, he lives in Vegas. I think you have
to include Bruce because I think Eric Carr and
Bruce Kulik are the fifth and sixth official
members of KISS. I think as history has shown
us, they're up there right below the original
four. Right. I don't think anybody else is. Actually,
I know no one else is. People aren't looking
at Eric Singer like they would look at Eric Carr.
Yeah, Eric Singer lives in Vegas as well. Well,
there you go. Yeah. It's going to become Kiss
headquarters. So let's say they say, all right,
well, we've come to a realization. Paul can't
do an entire set list, so we're going to bring
people up to sing these songs. Paul's still going
to play and still going to prance around on stage,
but he's not going to sing all these songs, except
he can still sing Silver Spoon and Bang Bang
You. Would that be enough for you to see Paul
sing them? Well, it's kind of a difficult answer
to give you for the November event. They're not
going to tell us, and we're not going to know
until after it happens. Would you get me back
there after that November event if Paul isn't
going to sing? You wouldn't get me back there.
But in my head and the thinking that I've done
about this is that he's had almost two years
to heal. And I don't want him to go out. I'm
like, I'm not trying to get him to go sing Crazy
Nights. Cater the set list to things that the
Die Hard Kiss fan maybe has never heard live.
Which is what they want. That seems to be what
they want. We want, as Kiss fans, we want what
Kiss doesn't give us. So when they weren't in
makeup, we wanted all four original in makeup.
And then, at least for me, as time went on and
you replaced and put other people in the makeup,
I wanted the makeup to come off. You know, when
I go to a KISS show, I went to two End of the
Road shows. I'm still looking at KISS in makeup.
So you have to play Detroit Rock City, Love Gun,
God of Thunder, Deuce, songs like that. But if
you're going to come out there in a pair of jeans
and a T -shirt, I want to hear what you don't
play live. What you've never played live, I want
to hear things that. You know, maybe are almost
50 years old that they've never played live.
Now, if you can figure that out and and you can
put Paul in a register, a voice register that
he can actually sing it. Yeah, that's great.
And we all know. That if he can't sing it and
he wants to do it. They'll just press play on
the backing track. So, and, and as a, as a, as
a one -off once a year thing, I don't know how
many kiss fans really care. I don't. Right. I
mean, it was obvious both shows that I saw him
on the end of the road. It was very obvious.
You knew when he was singing to a backing track.
For the end of the road, I didn't really care.
As a whole, I care. But I just saw Blackie Lawless
a few months ago, and he plays a backing track,
and he doesn't hide it. But if you go to a Wasp
show, he plays a backing track for the chorus.
I don't have a real issue with that. He's not
hiding anything. He just can't sing the verses
and the choruses both. He can do it in the studio.
He can't do it live. I don't have a real big
deal about it. And as a one -off or a once -a
-month show that's going to be in a special event
where probably 95 % of the people. are going
to travel to Las Vegas for it. I don't know how
much they care either. They're going to go play
mini golf. They're going to go look at the little
kiss museum. You know, they're going to go gamble
when the avatars open. They're all going to go
to the avatar show. No matter what anybody, no
matter what any kiss fan tells you, we're all
going to make jokes about it. We're all going
to do this. And we're all, when it comes out,
we're all going to go. I think I got to go to
that. But you got to be a diehard for it. Right.
Like the fair weather fans, they're done. Kiss
retired. That's at least my take on it. So let
me ask you this. What five songs would you love
to see them do live? I can do you better. I think
I still have my list. So I took Paul singing
into consideration, but it was not my first priority.
Okay. And part of that reason is I want to hear
I've had enough into the fire live. So that was
my opener. And I can't find my list right now,
but I had Gene singing radioactive. I had Bruce
singing I Walk Alone. Rocco had I'm a Legend
Tonight. Okay. Which I thought was great, but
I don't think he can sing. I had Hide Your Heart.
I had Eric Singer singing Black Diamond and Nothing
to Lose. I can't remember. Well, I had Paul singing
Love in Chains. And then I leaned more to the
non -makeup era. So I think I had King of the
Mountain maybe in there. I can't remember what
else I had in there. You make me rock hard. That's
classic. Classic to put in there. But those are
the kind of songs that I think you're going to
draw the diehard Kiss fan out. And you're going
to get a certain percentage of them to bite and
say, I want to hear this specific song live.
And this is the only place I can get that. How
about hide your heart with Ace? Oh, I haven't
considered that. I think Kiss's version was better,
but I'd be okay with that. But you could have
Ace up there and he could do, you know, they
could do half and half the vocals. I'd be okay
with that. I should, I'd be better than okay
with that. Yeah. And all right. So how about
with the whole friends thing? Because, I mean,
I think if they were smart, you look at someone
like Whitesnake, who brought in on their last
two tours, they brought Dino in. Dino Gerolicious,
I think is his last name, to play keyboards and
who can sing better than David Coverdale can
in 2025. So you bring someone else in, you say,
and friends, and you bring in a third guitarist
who's going to do the high parts or do the choruses
or stuff like that, similar to what you said
with Blackie. That's what Ace does now with Scott
Coogan on drums, where Scott does all the Paul
stuff live. So do you bring in somebody to hit
those notes that Paul can't hit in certain spots
in the songs? I don't think would have you're
saying no, not for me. I want to see if I'm going
to fly to. If I'm going to fly to Vegas. I'm
flying to Vegas to see Kiss. OK, I don't want
to see, you know, let's say Kiss with Jeff Tate
from Queensryche singing because he's a Kiss
fan. No, I'm not. I don't I don't want to hear.
Songs like Love Gun and Detroit Rock City, I
don't care who sings it. I heard it every concert
that I ever went to. I want to hear Paul and
Gene have to sit down and figure out what songs
Paul can sing that is a deep track. That's what
I want to hear. I don't really care. I don't
think I really care what it is. I just don't
want to hear what I've heard my whole life. And
I don't want, you know, any friends singing.
Am I OK with any friends jumping up there like,
you know, Scotty and jumping up there with an
axe bass? and playing a song yeah i'm okay with
that it's it's it's not a draw to me i'm okay
with it i don't need it uh you know and friends
to me is you know bring ace up there just please
don't have them play shock me like that's what
i think we're all tired of Bring Ace up there.
One of my favorite Ace songs is Into the Night.
You know this. I have searched, researched, asked
people, called up radio shows. I've done every
crazy thing that you can imagine. I can't find
it played live anywhere. I just want to know,
can he not play it? Can he not sing it? Does
he hate it? Like you tell me Ace is going to
jump up on stage and play into the night in Vegas.
And that seals the deal for me. And I'm going
to go and I'm just going to go for that. I mean,
I'm going to go for a lot of other reasons that
the Raiders are in Vegas. Hopefully they're playing
home that weekend. I know they won't be, but
I'll go take a tour of the stadium. I want to
go get kiss air guitar strings at the kiss mini
golf. I'm going to go play mini golf. So there's
other things to do because it's Las Vegas. But
yeah, Ace is going to play into the night. I'm
in. Bruce is going to play. I walk alone. I'm
in. Those are the things, at least for me, that's
going to draw me in. And it might draw me there
yearly. It might. Hey, I can go to a Kiss residency
show and I can go to a Raiders game and I can,
you know, go spend my money on Kiss merch at
the Kiss Museum once a year. I'd probably do
it. All right. So the tradeoff, you get to see
Into the Night, you get to see I Walk Alone,
but you also get to see Jeff Tate sing Just the
Boy with Kiss. Yeah, I'll bring my earplugs.
Look, at least for me, the history of KISS has
been always you got to take the good with the
bad. Yeah, absolutely. That's why I think if
you manage to get an Into the Night, you're going
to get. something else in the other direction
you'll get peter to sing uh finally found my
way or or something like that i mean will i goof
on them absolutely i will goof on them will i
go yeah absolutely i'll go i i just don't i don't
see the need for it i don't see the need for
jeff tate standing up there singing kiss song
i'd rather I'd rather Gene sing Just a Boy than
bringing somebody in from the outside. You want
to impress me? Give Vinny. Because it always
makes for good drama. Would you be good with
them bringing their kids up? I'm convinced that...
Evan and Nick will probably be the opener. Okay.
What do I know? But it just seems to work out
for me. They have enough time to get a backing
band together. It's a way for Paul and Gene to
promote their kids. And it's a way for Evan and
Nick to get promoted and be separate from Kiss,
but also be able to get some kind of juice from
them at the same time. I wouldn't be opposed
to that. Do I want Evan Stanley singing Detroit
Rock City? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe I'd be
okay with it. You know, if you gave me Ace into
the night, you gave me Gene or you gave me Bruce.
I walk alone. You know, Gene came up there and
sang radioactive. If Evan came out and played
Detroit Rock City, I might be all right with
them. But they don't care if we're all right
with it. Right. They care that we're there. Yeah.
I'd already be there. And I think that's the
largest part of the game. I think this is the
reunion all over again. They're taking baby steps.
You know, they're not giving too much information.
They're taking baby steps and seeing, you know,
how's this going to turn out? What's the interest
going to be? Let's not go crazy. I mean, I'm
guessing Pop House. is covering all the overhead
of this. But I think Pop House is doing the same
thing. We don't have to have a cruise. This is
where we pretty much have our headquarters for
everything. Let's do a one -off, and then we
can make it a yearly thing. And then if that
works, let's just make this a residency. Because
it's not a big deal to either one of them to
give up 24 hours a month to go play. When they
don't have to put three hours of makeup on and
they don't have to run around in 30, 60 pounds
of costumes and do all that. I think it would
be interesting to see Kiss with no hoopla. I
don't know how many times. But I'd be interested.
I've never seen Kiss get up there like most bands
do. And jeans and a t -shirt, like no big Kiss
sign, no bombs, no fire, no smoke, no nothing,
and just play. Be interesting at least once.
If it's good, it might be interesting more than
once. Yeah. No, I agree with you. I think there's
going to be a test run to see where they go from
here. If it's a success, minimally, I mean, they'll
do it at least once a year. And as you're saying,
if not more, if not more, that they'll try to
work it out so that they're making more money
in the process. Nobody's doing conventions, which
is shocking to me. Right. So that avenue is open
for them to turn this into a full -fledged yearly
convention. They have so many different directions
that they can go in if they want to go there.
It's good to be Paul and Jean right now. Right,
right. Absolutely. And if I was a Sir Peter,
I'd be very angry and getting angrier. Unless
they've gotten the call. Yeah, but they sold
their rights. Oh, in that sense? Yeah. Wow. I
mean, in some respect, I envision. Ace and Peter
saying in December of 2023, thank God this is
all over with. And, you know, it wasn't over
with for very long, which makes me laugh that,
you know, the Internet is turned upside down.
They lied to us. They're coming back. There's
people on the Internet. There's podcasts. They're
going to tour again. I don't think either one
of them are physically capable. You look at how
Gene does do tours, Kiss will never tour like
that to me. A residency somewhere close, somewhere
where they can pull in money from other avenues,
that makes more sense to me. And you throw in
including the kids and including the other business
ventures, yeah, this now makes more sense to
me. But it is KISS, so I could be completely
wrong. And November 17th, they could announce
the 2027 KISS World Tour. I'm not going, but
they could announce it. Yeah. No, I mean, they
could surprise us with anything. Absolutely.
But like you're saying, I mean, people are just
going. I think they're just going way off the
deep end. I love that there are certain celebrities
that are coming out and calling them out. Oh,
this is bullshit. Dee Snider, first person that
I ever interviewed, is already, they're the worst,
they're this, they're that. Twisted Sister's
always been jealous. They've, you know, same
area, kind of tried to copy the same kind of
garb. But I... Personally prefer what Gene's
doing than having, you know, Dee Snider go out
there and play second fiddle to Bret Michaels.
I mean, just go out there and be the clown that's
just doing We're Not Gonna Take It and I Wanna
Rock and, you know, little else. Sing a Jimmy
Buffett song with Bret Michaels. How, you know,
who's really selling out? Well, you know. Part
of D's draw is D's a lot like Gene and Paul.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He knows how to stir up the
controversy. And him and Paul have been going
back and forth for like the last 10 years. I
haven't watched, I haven't listened to D's statement
yet, but it keeps popping up on my YouTube feed
at some point. I'm going to have to listen to
it because I know it's going to be nothing but
spewing hate. And look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dee's
not the only one. Oh, no. Spewing hate. There's
a lot of people doing that. And I just believe,
hey, they have their right to do that. I don't
see it like the way they see it. Look, if Kiss
announces a 2026, 2027 world tour. I might jump
on the hate bandwagon a little bit because everybody
that, that flew to New York city paid two, $3
,000 for a ticket, you know, bought pizzas with
kiss pizzas, you know, did all that goofy shit.
And then you come back, you know, what, two,
three years later. No. A lot of people should
have an issue with that. A one -off in Vegas,
a yearly thing in Vegas, a residency in Vegas
that's different, that's stripped down, that
somehow they make different set lists, that kind
of stuff. Personally, I don't have any issue
with that, and I don't see why anybody would.
If you're a real KISS fan. Right. I mean, if
you want to get into tracks and that kind of
stuff, and I can understand that. I can understand
the Kiss fan that says, I will fly to Vegas from
wherever if Paul is actually singing. I can understand
that. Unfortunately, you won't know until it's
too late. Because it's not like they're going
to come out and tell you that. Right, right,
right. Until after you buy the package. I haven't
seen it, but I'm guessing it's non -refundable.
Probably. The beauty to all of this is that your
show is called Hooligan Nation, so that if things
go in that direction, you guys can always talk
about other bands. That's why the Kiss -centric
is there. The Kiss -centric is there. Because
I didn't want to be backed into a corner when
I didn't want to be backed into a corner. I mean,
I went to see Jackal live for the first time
last September, I think. And I went crazy. And
we argued. We didn't argue, but we bickered back
and forth for like two weeks. And finally, I
said, well, I'm doing a Jackal show. You don't
have to do it if you don't want to. Because I
wanted to do something different. Right now,
he wants to do Van Halen. And I want to get through
the album reviews. But at some point, we're going
to venture off a little bit. We're not going
to leave our format, but I want to be able to
venture off in Van Halen, Metallica, Anthrax.
You know, those kinds of bands, I'd love to venture
off into the Kiss family tree, Slaughter, bands
like that. You know, of course, I mean, we'll
probably do a series on Vinny because you can
never run out of things to talk about when it
comes to Vinny. Right. Yeah, so we're never going
to run out. And look, Kiss could have retired
in December of 2023, and we could still not have
heard anything, and we'll still never run out
of things to talk about because there's no other
band out there that has done the crazy shit that
they've done. Right. So you could probably do
a year's worth of shows just on stage shows.
True. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if anybody watch
them. I would watch them. But that that's the
kind of diehard Kiss fan stuff that I think people
look for. I know I do. Right. If I can come across
the podcast that talks about Creatures of the
Night stage show, I'm all in. I want to I want
to know, you know, who designed the tank. I want
to know those stupid facts that the fair weather
fans don't care about. Yeah, yeah, I agree with
you. And that's what will keep them going still.
Right. I mean, that's that's what's going to
keep you guys, you know, give you enough material
to work with, you know, for quite some time.
They're killing me right now. We just recorded.
a segment about Vegas two days ago. And since
then, all this new information has come out.
And I edited the segment today. And I went back
and forth, like, do I just throw this away and
try to record another one? Or do I just put this
out? And I'm thinking. This time next week, there'll
be more information out. So this is going to
I think it's going to be a never ending thing
that they're just going to keep putting little
tidbits out almost weekly. They're going to build
the machine because that's what they do. The
elder was going to be a return to the hard rock
and heavy metal kiss. And they told everybody
that that would listen. It didn't work, but they
tried. Right, right. Yeah. And what that will
end up doing as well with them dropping those
small nuggets is that they'll continue to give
you information, enough information to do another
episode. And many other shows and many other
boards and whatnot online are going to take that
and run with it for a week. And look, it's not
old material. It's not old material because we
all have different opinions on it. Right. So
I can watch my podcast and then go watch six
other KISS podcasts. about the same subject,
and not one of us are going to completely agree.
And somebody's going to come up with a theory
that not everybody else came up with. And like
I said, if you're a diehard Kiss man, I think
that's what you're looking for, is more about
the opinions than you are, let's say, the facts.
Everybody knows Bob Ezrin produced Destroyer.
What everybody doesn't know is what everybody
else hears out of Destroyer that maybe that person
that watching hasn't heard or didn't hear, if
that makes any sense to you. So I think that's
where, like, you know, I said this from the start,
we're not competing against any other KISS podcast.
We're not trying to be the best kiss podcast.
We're just trying to be different, different
opinions. You know, I, I, my, my, some of my
subscribers hate the unmasked kiss, hate the
keyboards, hate the Bon Jovi sound. I love turn
on the night. Right. I'm okay with it. Is it,
you know, is it a, a play off of, Bon Jovi? Absolutely.
Did it work? Absolutely. It worked. Paul and
Gene, well, probably just Paul at the time, looked
over and said, Bon Jovi is selling 10 million
records. We're going to make ourselves a couple
Bon Jovi songs. And it sold. So again, capitalism,
music business, give them credit. Did they follow
trends? Absolutely. They followed trends all
the way to the bank with a Brinks truck. Yeah.
Yeah, and also they weren't the only band to
do that stuff. So, I mean, for as much crap as
they get, Stones did it. Motley Crue did it.
Ozzy did it. I mean, the list goes on and on
where people follow different trends in rock,
in and out of rock. And it's not exclusive to
them. It's just funny that they get picked on
for a lot of things that other bands end up doing
anyway. For some reason, they're held at a different
level. I've never been able to figure out why.
Jealousy. So whatever stealing has been part
of the music business, I think forever. And it's
going to continue to be part of the music business
forever. Yeah. One person, you know, there was
one Nirvana. And then there was 50 Nirvanas.
Yeah. No, that's correct. With every wave, there's
always a. A, B, C, D, E, F and onwards, you know,
version of, of every popular band. So, yeah.
Where can people go to check out your show? Where,
where can they follow hooligan nation? Where
can they listen to it? Where can they comment
on the episodes? We, our YouTube channel is the
hooligan nation, a kiss centric podcast. We do
not have a website up yet. We're working on it.
We do have a Facebook group because we're old.
It's the Hooligan Nation, the Kiss Centric Podcast.
We also have a TikTok and an Instagram that are
some version of, you know, you're going to have
to search because I can't remember. Hooligan
Nation, the Kiss Centric Podcast. And it's it's
our social media is in the description of all
our YouTube videos. And the audio only podcast
is available on all the podcasting platforms,
all the major podcasting platforms, you know,
Apple Music, Spotify, iHeartRadio, all of them.
We're still crawling. We're still crawling right
now. I think today's episode is episode 31. That's
the full length episode. Then we put out shorter
segments out on Wednesday. We usually put a trailer
out for the Friday episode on Monday. If you
go on the YouTube channel, you get three different
things a week from us. Audio wise, you usually
get a Wednesday segment that's between 15 and
25 minutes. And then on Friday you'll get a,
a full length episode, which is between 45 minutes
and an hour and a half usually. Okay, cool. And
as I mentioned before, I, Enjoy the discussions
that you guys have. So I recommend others check
it out as well. Well, thank you. Yeah. And I
do want to thank you for coming on the show tonight.
Hopefully this will be the first of many appearances.
Absolutely. Thank you for having me on. So awesome.
Want to thank everyone who watched the episode
live or is watching the replay or listening to
the replay. And we will be back not only with
Tony, but we'll be back with more signals from
Mars. Hopefully next week. See you guys. For
more information, this concludes our show.