1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000
Welcome to our monthly podcast.

2
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:11,000
Today, our guest is Kelly Winterton, who is famous for his potato onions.

3
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:17,000
And Kelly was one of the first plant breeders that inspired me like 15 years ago.

4
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:24,000
He was doing plant breeding in his backyard and world famous for his potato onions.

5
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,000
And so I always said I wanted to be like Kelly.

6
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:34,000
And this is my first time meeting Kelly, but Holly Hansen and Kelly have known each other for years.

7
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,000
And so I'm going to ask Holly to introduce Kelly.

8
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:43,000
So this is this is so exciting for me to have both Joseph and Kelly at my home office.

9
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,000
So exciting. I wish you all were here with us.

10
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:53,000
But I met Kelly 20 some odd years ago when I worked in a photography lab.

11
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000
I used to do I won't say the name of the company, but it was a color lab.

12
00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,000
And I did fun stuff with pictures, layers and all that kind of thing.

13
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:06,000
Did a lot of really fun stuff. And he was our color tech and he is so good at that.

14
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:14,000
And I would just go show him. I'd print off one of my prints and show him and he'd say three, three yellows, one this or minus that.

15
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,000
And just from his head. And I'd go do it.

16
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,000
And it was perfection. And we've been friends and stayed in touch.

17
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:32,000
And I've talked to him about gardening and things. When I met Joseph, I told him I was going to visit Kelly Winterton and he goes, the potato onion guy.

18
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:39,000
And I'm like, I don't know, because I had no idea that Kelly was famous for Landry's potato onions.

19
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:46,000
We just were friends and share a lot of similar interests. So that's not a very good bio, Kelly.

20
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:53,000
But it's a friendship that's gone on and it's so interesting in our lives and all of you are my friends and becoming my friend.

21
00:01:53,000 --> 00:02:06,000
And it's fun to get to know you. How are how the things that we're interested in interweave and life is just it's just this big weaving and we keep crossing each other's paths in different ways.

22
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:16,000
And this is so fun with going to seeds that we can help each other. And now we've added seeds and plants to the weaving and it's just a really exciting thing.

23
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:24,000
But I want you to hear from Kelly and Joseph's got some good questions for him at the end. If we have time, we'll do a little tour of my kitchen garden.

24
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:30,000
Okay, go ahead, guys. I'll be monitoring questions from my cell phone. So if you have questions, type them in.

25
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:42,000
And I'll ask these, you'll be able to hear me through this mic, but you won't see me. Okay, go for it. Thank you, Holly. Thank you, Julia for facilitating our chat today.

26
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,000
Anything you'd like to add to the introductions, Kelly.

27
00:02:46,000 --> 00:03:11,000
Well, I think it was only a brief part that Holly and I also have another connection and maybe she didn't bring this out on purpose. So maybe I'm spilling the beans here, but Holly and I have also known each other for a couple of decades through the family history research and where we had a common, what should I call it, assignment at the family history center.

28
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:28,000
And we also share that in common. And so, Holly and I, we've known each other for a long time, but we did Holly and I didn't become intimately close friends until the aspect of gardening came into it and that kind of made everything come full circle.

29
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:35,000
Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about where you live and what kind of gardening you do.

30
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:53,000
Yeah, I live in northern Utah and some of the people I'm seeing on the screen here in front of me, I don't have any idea what the reach is as far as how far away we're talking for climates and stuff. Florida, California, Europe, somewhere.

31
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,000
In Germany. Yeah, England. Good economic.

32
00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:11,000
Maybe I better switch back to English, it becomes old for people here. So if that's the case, then as far as Florida, California, Europe, and some of these, Croatia? Wow.

33
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:29,000
I think that where I garden is applicable and important because I'm in zone four in northern Utah. I'm in a mountain valley and people just through the canyon and on the other side of the valley are at least one zone warmer than I am.

34
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:44,000
I do have some issues as far as being able to garden. That issue has been acquiring genetics that are appropriate for my region in zone four, where I have more winter than I do summer.

35
00:04:44,000 --> 00:05:06,000
The growing season for me is at most 90 days, sometimes 95 days of a growing season, so I need to look for genetics that are appropriate for my little area and often that means acquiring things from other people and from other areas and countries.

36
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:20,000
And therefore, that might be the applicable answer then is that because of my colder climate, I have more easily gotten into things like breeding and genetics and some of this type of thing.

37
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,000
That was the same sort of thing that got me into plant breeding. Yes.

38
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:39,000
I might have 10 days longer growing season than Kelly does, but we both face the same kind of situation where we just buy seeds from the seed catalogs and expect them to thrive for us.

39
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:55,000
So this is, if I might just jump in a little bit here, this is something that in my early gardening years, 30 years or more ago, I thought, oh, I need heirloom. I need heirloom this and heirloom that. But that wasn't my answer.

40
00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:13,000
It just was not my answer because an heirloom for there are no real heirlooms for northern Utah. The heirlooms come from the Midwest in the United States or who knows what, and they are not appropriate for me. So therefore, I needed to take matters into my own hands.

41
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:26,000
I didn't go about it purposely at the start. I stumbled into it year after year and found out through the school of hard knocks that why things worked, why things didn't work and what I needed to do.

42
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:41,000
And so I got into vegetable breeding more of just by chance and by intuition than I did by outright learning about genetics. So there's that.

43
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,000
So what was the first crop that you saved seeds from and started?

44
00:06:46,000 --> 00:07:05,000
Okay, I've got a couple of different stories before I even really got deeply into potato onions. And I think they're applicable to everybody on the group that breeding or not necessarily breeding but selecting out of a gene pool is quite easy to do.

45
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:16,000
Because one of the first stories that I have is quite a revelation here, where I wanted to have a white carrot.

46
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:22,000
And I had seen them and heard of them and I wanted to grow some white carrots.

47
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:27,000
And so I looked and looked and I do believe it was from the Seed Savers Exchange.

48
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:46,000
But I don't know because it's been 20 years or more ago that I ordered some white carrot seeds and planted them in my garden had a whole row, probably 20 feet long of carrots that grew from these white carrot seeds.

49
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:54,000
I thought I need these carrots to go to seed and so in order to do carrots being biennials. I needed to overwinter them.

50
00:07:54,000 --> 00:08:00,000
That's hard. Thanks for saying that because I didn't have much success overwintering them.

51
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:06,000
But here's what happened. I had a whole row 20 feet of carrots to overwinter.

52
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,000
And the next spring came along.

53
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,000
And the whole row was dead.

54
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:27,000
Except for one single solitary carrot that came back in full force and was beautiful. And I thought, oh, I've got a whole row here that's basically a failure in my book.

55
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:32,000
I'll never do anything with getting seeds from a white carrot.

56
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:38,000
And I was just about ready. I had the shovel in my hand and I was going to dig that carrot up and throw it away.

57
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:56,000
And I actually was standing over that carrot when the revelation came to me that, no, this one carrot of a whole row, this one carrot has some hardiness to it that can overwinter in Utah.

58
00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:02,000
And that is exactly the carrot I want to save some seeds from.

59
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:08,000
So I let the one single solitary carrot go to seed.

60
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:24,000
And I had all kinds of seeds. I was amazed. I was amazed that I could have supplied carrot seeds to all my neighborhood easily because that one carrot gave that many seeds from the humble up on top.

61
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:34,000
And so I had seeds to plant out the following the third year, the following year. I planted those seeds and of course they sprouted.

62
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:45,000
And I was just thinking, boy, you know what, I've got some genetics now that are hardier than the white carrots that I got through the Seed Savers Exchange.

63
00:09:45,000 --> 00:10:05,000
And so what happened then was a big learning experience for me, but it ended up being that it was a failure in the end because of those hardy, hardier white carrots, they were so woody that they were tasteless and they were not tender whatsoever.

64
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:29,000
And I thought, ah, does that mean that the hardier the carrot is, the tougher and more wild it is? And that was my assumption. But I learned a lot from that, that you can select out some genetics through just one little tiny experiment and see huge results from just one or two tries.

65
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:48,000
But another one was similar and that had to do with collards. And I quite enjoyed the collards. They're also being biennial, collards are. But in collards biennial second year, what happens is they then go to flower and then produce seeds.

66
00:10:48,000 --> 00:11:01,000
But the little florets that come on those collards before the flowers open into their yellow flowers, they're quite tasty, very similar to broccoli.

67
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:17,000
And so I had quite a few collards plants and I wanted them to go to seed because I was a seed saver. I was a member of the Seed Savers Exchange for 30 years here, except for recently I haven't been.

68
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:28,000
But I thought now I'm collecting seeds, but these collards, they all seem to flower and go to seed all at the same time.

69
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:49,000
But look, this collard plant over here keeps producing little florets for days and days and for two or three weeks. And I want to have florets for an extended time. So when I went to select my seeds, I selected from the plants that had a longer bloom cycle.

70
00:11:49,000 --> 00:12:15,000
And sure enough, then it's that easy that I picked out a trait that was applicable to me and found that it's quite easy to look into the gene pool of a crop and to start picking and choosing some genetics that you want, that work best for you in your garden, in your particular area, and then save seeds.

71
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:24,000
And this doesn't take anything more than just some common sense and some intuition. It doesn't take a lab. It doesn't take anything scientific much at all.

72
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:41,000
That was my introduction into when I stumbled onto potato onions, how it from that point and forth, it went somewhat easier because I had an introduction into selecting different land races of crops.

73
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:47,000
Tell us about your potato onions. How did you get into those? What happened?

74
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:52,000
That story is somewhat long. I will try to... We got a half hour still.

75
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:57,000
No, I could fill that whole half hour and I wouldn't want to do that. Okay, shortened version.

76
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:14,000
The shortened version is that potato onions that I obtained back in the days before I was even on the internet, and the internet was not really even a thing at the time I obtained these, potato onions don't have anything to do with potatoes.

77
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:29,000
They're totally allium. They're an onion, but they have a habit like potatoes. So you don't get potato onion seeds, you get potato onion bulbs from someone else or from some other source.

78
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:43,000
And you put that bulb in the ground and grow it like you would a potato start. And by putting one bulb into the ground, you get multiple onions from the one bulb because they're... anyway, keep the short story short.

79
00:13:43,000 --> 00:14:09,000
So the potato onions are basically perpetuated asexually. So by saving one of the onions for next year, you plant that one onion, you can eat some of your crop and plant one of the onions next spring, and it will grow and give you five or six more onions from the one onion you put in the ground.

80
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:25,000
So these are vegetatively reproduced, which meant to me that I would need to put into my little root cellar enough onions for the next crop the next year.

81
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:43,000
But by the stroke of luck or fate or something, I was able to... now I know some of the reasons why I won't get into them because it's lengthens out the story here. I was able to get some potato onions to actually flower and go to seed.

82
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:58,000
I had never seen potato onions flower or go to seed. I had grown them for probably a decade and really quite enjoyed eating the potato onions because they stored so well and were so easy to put them back in the ground the next spring and grow my next crop.

83
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:21,000
But a group of potato onions that I put in the ground in the late fall overwintered and produced multiple seed heads for me. And me being a seed saver, I thought, this is funny. This has never happened before. I have never seen the potato onions go to flower, go to seed.

84
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:45,000
So I saved those seeds and planted them the following gardening season. And I ended up doing some experimenting that I had previously been educated about that I kept the original potato onions in one row of the garden and planted the seedlings of the seeds in another row right next to it.

85
00:15:45,000 --> 00:16:02,000
I had my control crop so I could watch the difference. And the differences between the seedlings from the true seed and the cloned asexually produced potato onions in the row next to it, the differences were huge.

86
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:14,000
And I thought, what in the world have I got going on? It was a head scratcher to me. I went to the county extension agent, whom I know pretty well.

87
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:24,000
And I said, Jerry, what in the world have I got going on? He looked at me and he said, you're on your own, buddy. I have no idea what's happening there.

88
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:34,000
So I thought, if people don't know what's going on, I'm going to find out what's going on. So that was my introduction into breeding the potato onions.

89
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:56,000
I learned a lot over the years. And for those of you there in the group, I think Holly is posting a link to my story there on how I developed these new varieties of potato onions from being able to open up the genetic pool here.

90
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:07,000
I think she's posting that link. So I recorded that in writing and in some pictures. And I think it's like some 70 or 80 pages long. So it goes and goes.

91
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:12,000
But for those that are interested in reading that in detail, it's all written down on the Internet.

92
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:18,000
So in our group recently, we've been talking about breeding potato onions.

93
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,000
Really? So it was really fortuitous that you happened to be on the schedule. Oh, cool.

94
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:32,000
That occurred. So you've actually been talking about that then. So I don't need to go into all this elementary stuff with you after all.

95
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,000
Yes, you do. We love everything.

96
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:56,000
All right. A few people. In fact, I had a state extension agent tell me once that I was the world's authority on potato onions. And I said, no, I'm just a guy. And he said, have you ever met anybody? And I've had hundreds of people email me back and forth and whatnot.

97
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:04,000
He said, have you ever met anybody that knows more about potato onions than you? And I said, no. And he says, therefore, you are the expert.

98
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:10,000
And I'm going, how did I become an expert on something that I'm just playing around with?

99
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,000
Because you paid attention.

100
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:29,000
Because I paid attention. And so you have to go into it wanting to learn. One of the very first contacts I ever had was a fellow from England.

101
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:48,000
And he was not only just an avid gardener, but he was a genetics professor at a university in England. And he contacted me because I made the mistake of documenting some of my experiments and that on the internet.

102
00:18:48,000 --> 00:19:03,000
Because I thought I need to write some of this down. Where do I do it? And so I put it on the internet and he found it. And so that was the beginning. He was like the first one that contacted me specifically. He being a geneticist and, of course, now retired from the university.

103
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:19,000
He told me, he said, he said, thank goodness that you were observant enough to get something that you had in your hands and start doing something with it. If you had not have saved some of those seeds, none of this ever would have happened.

104
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:27,000
So it's just a matter of being observant and a little bit inquisitive and trying to learn something on your own.

105
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:37,000
Well, see, one of the things that inspires me about you is your backyard gardener and your world renowned for one crop in a small little space.

106
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,000
In a small little space.

107
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:47,000
And if a hundred people were doing that, you know, exactly, we could cover all of the species that we're currently really interested in.

108
00:19:47,000 --> 00:20:05,000
Yes. Can I jump in with another little story here? Because this has happened the last three or three and a half years here when you talk about saving different types of crops or even if there might not even be a food crop, saving some of these things.

109
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:13,000
One person in one area and one person in another backyard, another person somewhere else doing something that we could cover all of this.

110
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:23,000
There is a seed bank in Norway. I think it's Norway way up the north in the Svalbard seed bank.

111
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:34,000
There was a fellow in France, but he speaks German. His name is Philippe Heinemeyer, if anybody has ever heard of him.

112
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,000
Really? You know him? You know him?

113
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:49,000
Okay, so he contacted me and he said, hey, I have written to the seed bank and they have some potato onion, true seeds.

114
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:57,000
And he said, I didn't think that I was even able to order or get any seeds out of this big, huge seed bank.

115
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:10,000
He said, but lo and behold, they sent me 25 different varieties of seeds of potato onions. He says, do you want some of them? And I didn't know if I really wanted them or not because I thought 25.

116
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:24,000
I thought that's a project that's going to take some commitment. So I thought, but the opportunity is huge to be able to diversify the genetics of the potato onions that I've got going.

117
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:31,000
And I've got two other land races that are very good land races, but to add 25, I thought, I don't know about that.

118
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:46,000
So he sent the seeds to me from the seed bank in Norway. And so I've been growing those and they have a number. They don't even have a name to them. They're just a number, an accession number.

119
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:57,000
And so I grew these from true seed and kept track with markers in my garden, all the different 25 different varieties.

120
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:11,000
And I kept writings on these. And so I let them overwinter. I got seeds the second year. I had all kinds of seeds coming out my ears with Norwegian potato onion seeds.

121
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:19,000
So I went through the 25 different varieties and come to find out these Norwegian potato onions are just not very good.

122
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:26,000
I hesitate to even say that because maybe there's someone out there that thinks they're the greatest, but I don't think they're very good.

123
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:33,000
Can I tell you a story? Yeah, go ahead. People always want to send me seeds and I don't want them because they're junk.

124
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:46,000
The same thing, the varieties that I've been growing locally in my own garden do much better for me than all these grandma's super variety from far away and long ago.

125
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:55,000
But so the lesson came to me, although I could tell you a bit about these Norwegian potato onions, because I still got to, I'm growing them for a third year now.

126
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:05,000
I've selected some of the better ones, but I almost wonder whether I don't want some of those promiscuous pollen things floating around some of my better potato onions or not.

127
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,000
But I think, you know what, I'll give it one more year and just see what happens.

128
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:20,000
When I say that they're junk, they're not really junk. They're pretty hardy, but they're small and they have a little bit different traits to them here or there.

129
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:28,000
But they taste fine. They taste fine. But they're just small. They're just small. They're hard to process and hard to eat and cook with.

130
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:36,000
I want you to tell more about the first seeds that you grew of potato onions. You said there were several astonishing things.

131
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:42,000
I want to hear more what was so different about the clone versus the first seeds you grew.

132
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:53,000
Okay. All right, Holly, I will go into a little bit of detail on that, because the control row was all the same height. It was all the same color.

133
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,000
In other words, they were genetic clones of each other in the control group.

134
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:05,000
But when I got some seeds from those and planted the seeds, I had some taller ones. I had some shorter ones.

135
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:12,000
I had some that were greener, some that were more blue-green. So it was confusing in my head.

136
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:20,000
But the biggest difference that by far the, this is, I think, the concept that got me famous.

137
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:25,000
And I say that loosely. It got me well known.

138
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:38,000
Was that the onions that I grew from seed were the size of softballs. These things were, you could hardly get your hands around them.

139
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:45,000
They were that big. But yet my potato onions in the control group were just these small onions.

140
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:54,000
And I thought, wow, this is so cool that I can grow a huge potato onion from a little teeny tiny one.

141
00:24:54,000 --> 00:25:05,000
And for me, the initial intrigue was that I got these huge onions. And I didn't know what to make of it.

142
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:12,000
So I thought, this is worth looking into then, because some of the onions were a whitish color.

143
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:20,000
Some of them were more of a golden color. Some were even almost verging into the pink color as far as the skin.

144
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:32,000
And so I wanted to put these big onions that I grew as a first year seedling into the ground so I could overwinter them

145
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,000
to see if they would act like potato onions and give me offsets.

146
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:44,000
And I could get maybe four or five more onions by overwintering one big bulb.

147
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:54,000
What happened then was that I found out through my own experience that onions really are biennial.

148
00:25:54,000 --> 00:26:01,000
Even potato onions are biennial. Even though you can perpetuate them for years and years and years by cloning them,

149
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,000
they're still biennials. And why is that? So here's what happened.

150
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:16,000
I took that great big giant softball size onion, put it in the ground, thinking that I would get a whole nest of these great big giant onions.

151
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:28,000
And that did not happen. By putting one big onion into the ground, what happens is that there's growing points inside the base of that onion

152
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:40,000
where there's four or five different growing points and those little growing points then produce your subsequent crop that you're propagating vegetatively.

153
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:46,000
And they were smaller then after that. So that's the biennial nature of potato onions.

154
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:53,000
But then you need to select out the varieties that you want to clone after that.

155
00:26:53,000 --> 00:27:02,000
But here's where it gets even more intriguing to me. And I was learning all this firsthand, questioning and scratching my head,

156
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:08,000
wondering what in the world I've got going on here, because to me it was confusing at first.

157
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:21,000
Even though the offsets from those great big giant huge onions were a lot smaller, those onions were still two or three times bigger than the control group.

158
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:27,000
There was still a size increase that just confused me, but I thought, wow, I've really developed something cool.

159
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:36,000
I'm really something because I've got a big onion, one that's actually even worth slicing into and using and cooking.

160
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:47,000
What happens though is that, and I found this out through some other greenhouse production experts and that I was inquiring of,

161
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:56,000
that the increase in size wasn't necessarily because of some genetic selection.

162
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:05,000
The increase in size happened because of a factor that I was totally unaware of.

163
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:10,000
And that was that it was a disease factor is what it is.

164
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:20,000
You take a bulb out of the ground and it's got some diseases from the soil on that bulb and you plant it the next time.

165
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,000
And that disease accumulates year after year.

166
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:32,000
And that is what degrades the size and the vigor of your crop over a matter of years.

167
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:40,000
It's a matter of keeping those diseases low, which keeps the size of your crop large.

168
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:46,000
So this now that's getting too deep. I won't go there. So the diseases are transmitted by the seeds.

169
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,000
Don't the seed. The seeds do not. OK.

170
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:56,000
When you start with the seed, you start all over with a clean product and therefore your vigor goes up.

171
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:03,000
But once you start cloning year after year, and it took me a decade to learn some of this,

172
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:15,000
that the propensity of a potato onion to flower and go to seed diminishes every year that you clone that.

173
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:23,000
In other words, it takes a decade or so. And that clone becomes old.

174
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,000
It just runs out of enough vigor to send up seeds anymore.

175
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:33,000
And so the original potato onions that I got 30 years ago, they didn't set seed.

176
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:38,000
I just could only perpetuate them asexually year after year.

177
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:49,000
But once I got a seed and was able to start with a clean, disease-free crop, then all of a sudden my size and vigor comes back.

178
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,000
And I guess this is very common when you start talking about potatoes.

179
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,000
Potatoes have to have a disease-free beginning when you plant.

180
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:03,000
I found out that garlic is much the same. And so I thought, here I am.

181
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:13,000
And therefore I found that a dip in a diluted bleach solution before planting can help some of that.

182
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,000
I don't know how much it's helping, but I do know that it helps a lot.

183
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:22,000
But as far as eliminating everything, it doesn't because the diseases are soil-borne.

184
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:28,000
They're already in the soil. So you're just doing your best to keep a clean crop from year to year.

185
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:37,000
But after a decade or so, the propensity to flower and to see that gene pool expressed goes down.

186
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:44,000
So it's a matter of taking some true potato onion seeds every year and starting a fresh crop

187
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:49,000
so that in the first few years you will consistently get seed heads.

188
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:56,000
But a few years later you will see very few seed heads until that trait just goes right away.

189
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:02,000
Is there any trick you used in those old clones to get them to flower?

190
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:09,000
There could be. And this I've done some reading and some research and some talking to extension agents

191
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,000
and other experts, greenhouse experts on some of this.

192
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:20,000
There are some tricks. In fact, one of them was a garlic expert that I communicated with by email.

193
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:30,000
So if those potato onions that you're wanting to perpetuate into another year's crop,

194
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,000
if there is some stress, that is one of the key factors.

195
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,000
If there's some stress at a certain point in its growth,

196
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:43,000
then it will have more of a propensity to give you a seed head.

197
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:48,000
So it was a totally random stress that got you started on this project.

198
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Yes, it was. It was a totally random thing.

199
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:57,000
And like a geneticist from England said, you were lucky enough to see it and catch it.

200
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:03,000
And so now the world owes you a big thank you for what you have done.

201
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:09,000
Can we talk about storing potato or storing onion seeds? How long do they store?

202
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,000
OK, I only know a little bit about that, but I do know something.

203
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:20,000
And I will pass that along. Onion seeds are notorious for a short storage life.

204
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:27,000
And I've been aware of this through the years, so I'm always trying to have fresh seeds at hand.

205
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:34,000
But I have found that freezing the seeds in the freezer,

206
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,000
the germination is very good multiple years later.

207
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:44,000
So that is probably the answer to your question. I don't have specifics on that.

208
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,000
Just in general.

209
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:53,000
Because I don't know if you have an onion seed or a potato onion seed in a seed envelope,

210
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,000
just in a room somewhere. I don't know how long germination is good on that.

211
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:04,000
Germination for us as small scale growers might be different than germination for a seed company.

212
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,000
Yes.

213
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,000
Because I don't care in my garden if I have 10 percent germination after five years,

214
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,000
because I'm still getting germination. But a seed company can't sell that seed.

215
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:24,000
So the amount of loss of vitality, I don't have those figures because I haven't done any experimenting on that at all.

216
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:33,000
So we have a question coming in by Chant. If planting from seed every year, what's the benefit of potato onions over regular onions?

217
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:41,000
So there might not be, other than to keep the gene pool alive and diverse, because diversity is really where it's all about.

218
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,000
Tell me about the different varieties of onions you developed from that first.

219
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,000
OK, so I did develop some different varieties.

220
00:33:50,000 --> 00:34:02,000
And some of the developments I've done have not come from that one original strain that I acquired from Roniger seed potatoes 30 years ago.

221
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:13,000
It took some because I got some different genetics going on from a strain out of Dakota, north or south,

222
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,000
and a strain from the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange.

223
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:26,000
So I've got three different land races that I'm keeping my original one, the Dakota one and the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange.

224
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:33,000
They're all three of them are excellent potato onions, far better than those Norwegian ones that I'm playing around with right now.

225
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:43,000
But the old gardening books of the 1850s described at least three different types of potato onions.

226
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:54,000
And there was a white potato onion, there was a yellow or a brown, a yellow potato onion and a red potato onion.

227
00:34:54,000 --> 00:35:03,000
And yet, when I first got into it, there were no white potato onions to be found anywhere commercially that I could find.

228
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,000
And there were no red ones. I could only find the yellow ones. And that's what I started with, was the yellow ones.

229
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:19,000
But I have found that in that original yellow potato onion strain, once I was able to get it to go to flower and opened up the gene pool to see what was in there,

230
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:28,000
I was able to get white ones and some pink ones too. So I thought, oh, okay, I want to develop a red one, a red one.

231
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:41,000
So I was able to actually bring back a resemblance of all three different types of potato onions that were recorded in old gardening books of the 1850s.

232
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:55,000
I thought, wow, it's just bringing them back from the dead, where those gardening experts were pretty much agreed that the white potato onions had gone extinct and the red ones had gone extinct.

233
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:05,000
And we were only left with the yellow ones. And so out of the yellow gene pool, I was able to get the white ones and started to get some red ones.

234
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:13,000
At least I could, you could definitely see the differences. So I thought, wow, I just need to keep going. I just need to keep going.

235
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:24,000
But other people sent me other potato onions. The Dakota one is a really nice golden to almost what reddish golden color.

236
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,000
And the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange one was also a darker color.

237
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:39,000
But once I got into the gene pool of that one, found out that there's some beautiful red ones that come from the land race that I got from the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange.

238
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:57,000
The white potato onions, I'm still, I have found out through sad experience that the white potato onions that they talked about in the old gardening books, I really don't have a strain of white ones.

239
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:08,000
I have had white ones in the past and they don't store well. And they tend to be more of a multiplier onion instead of a potato onion.

240
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:15,000
And so there's some different things going on with the whites. And I haven't gone into developing anything white.

241
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:23,000
I've tried and I have been largely unsuccessful in getting something that's really great and worth a lot.

242
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:38,000
So by opening up the gene pools, you're able to mimic, if not duplicate, all of what's going on in the old gardening books of the 1850s before potato onions more or less went extinct.

243
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:46,000
And I think therefore that's why I think people think I'm famous because I'm the one that kind of brought these things back from the dead.

244
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:52,000
Can you tell us the difference in your mind between multiplier onions and potato onions?

245
00:37:52,000 --> 00:38:12,000
Yes, I can. And maybe bulbing onions while we're on that topic? Bulbing onions, I really can't say anything authoritative there, but there are differences between multiplying onions and potato onions.

246
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:32,000
And the differences have to do with day length. And this is why playing around with the gene pool in your own backyard becomes so significant, is because you're undoubtedly at a different latitude than I'm at.

247
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:43,000
And onions being day length sensitive here. Okay, so I'm getting off on a tangent and I need to get back to the difference between multiplying onions and potato onions.

248
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:52,000
A potato onion is a true biennial onion that is day length sensitive.

249
00:38:52,000 --> 00:39:02,000
And a multiplier onion is an onion that really is not day length sensitive. It just multiplies whenever the conditions are right.

250
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:13,000
It will give you, there is a potato onion, they call it a potato onion, that is really more of a multiplying onion than it is a potato onion.

251
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:25,000
And this type of onion is quite well known, at least on the internet among some people, and I don't know how to pronounce it, but it's called I-E-Toy or something.

252
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:45,000
And it is an onion that was brought over by the original Spanish, I don't know what you call them, it came over like in the 1500s, 1600s to the Americas and introduced this onion to a group of American Indians down in New Mexico area.

253
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:55,000
So it's called the I-E-Toy or whatever, I-I-T-O-I onion.

254
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:04,000
And it was kept by the O'odham Indian tribe. And this onion is quite mild and good tasting.

255
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:13,000
But it has been perpetuated clear from the 1500s or 1600s here in the Americas, and people call it a potato onion.

256
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:21,000
I have found that it's more of a multiplier onion than it is a potato onion, because it doesn't seem to be day length sensitive at all.

257
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:31,000
It just starts multiplying when the conditions are right. And in the fall, it stops growing, multiplying and will sit under the snow for months.

258
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:53,000
In the spring when it gets favorable again, it starts multiplying some more and it multiplies just because. But a potato onion, here is the big difference between a potato onion and a bulbing onion and a multiplying onion, is that a potato onion is a true biennial.

259
00:40:53,000 --> 00:41:02,000
You start with a true seed the first year, it gives you top growth, and then it gives a bulb that can go dormant in the winter.

260
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:09,000
And then the second season in the spring, it will send up a seed stalk.

261
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:27,000
And then basically, like a carrot or a collard or like an onion, it does not grow the third year, it's dead. Because it's done its genetic duty of reproducing itself.

262
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:39,000
So a multiplying onion just goes and goes. But a potato onion here, what happens is you start from a seed or you start from the bulb in its second year.

263
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:49,000
It starts growing in the spring. And as the days get longer, the top growth keeps growing and growing.

264
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:58,000
And then the summer solstice comes along, which is around June 20th, which is about right now. And the days will start becoming shorter.

265
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:11,000
When the days become shorter, then that is a stimulus to a potato onion that the top growth can stop and the bulbs start growing underneath the soil.

266
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:19,000
And the bulbs underneath the soil grow in the same proportion that it had top growth before the solstice.

267
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:32,000
And so the difference between a bulbing onion and a potato onion is that it is day length sensitive, where a multiplying onion does not seem to be day length sensitive.

268
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,000
Okay, thank you.

269
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:40,000
Tell them about the seed stalk, the difference between a potato onion and a bulbing onion, how it comes out of the onion or not.

270
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:45,000
Oh, okay. So that's getting somewhat more into a longer story.

271
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:59,000
So I noticed that at my place. Yeah. Sometimes if I have a bulbing onion, the flower stalk will come straight up out of the middle of the potato or out of the middle of the onion.

272
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:06,000
But on some of them, the flower stalk comes up around the side of the onion.

273
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:11,000
And I like that trait better, I think. Yes, yes, I think it's a desirable trait.

274
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:19,000
Now, you mentioned specifically, it seems that they come up out of the middle or out of the side.

275
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:35,000
Have you actually taken some of those onions that you think come up out of the middle and peel back some of the outer layers to see that seed stalk looks like it comes out the middle, but it actually once it gets under the skin goes around the side to the base.

276
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:46,000
I don't think. Yes, because that is what happens sometimes that the seed stalk that seems people think comes out of the middle of the onion really isn't.

277
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:56,000
Okay, it is just wrapped that seed stalk that comes up the side is wrapped by a few thin layers of non edible covering.

278
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:09,000
So, getting back to the Norwegian onions that I see was cross pollination I want happening here because the Norwegian potato onions that is where they differ.

279
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:25,000
They do send up a seed stock right through the middle of the bulb. So here's what's fun about the Norwegian ones. You can take the base of the potato onion at the roots and cut it with a knife, and you can pull that seed stock right up.

280
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:32,000
Out through the middle, and then you're left with a onion that has a hole in the middle where the seed stock came up.

281
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:47,000
And that hole in the middle does not exist in my potato onions from the Green Mountains land race, or the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange land race or the Dakota land race, they always come up the side.

282
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,000
Nice.

283
00:44:48,000 --> 00:45:02,000
Nice. Even though it looks like they come up the middle of the bulb, but they're actually just under the surface of that out layer. Nice. So they're easier to process an onion for eating that way.

284
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:11,000
So when we're planting seeds from potato onions, is that something should be done in the spring or can it be done anytime of the growing season.

285
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:20,000
It okay, this is where the day length sensitive part comes in, it needs to be done in the spring because the growth needs to happen before the summer solstice.

286
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:31,000
Okay. Yeah, and where a multiplier onion it might be you might could get away with doing it anytime of year. Okay, so it'd be too late to plant potato onions. Yes, yes it's too late.

287
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:42,000
Right, we're at least in the northern hemisphere. Yeah, we're coming up on the end of the hours any other questions from out there that we'd like to address before we end.

288
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:49,000
So that's for the same for if you're in England, this person has seen in England is it too late to plant. Yeah.

289
00:45:49,000 --> 00:46:13,000
Because the because of the in the northern hemisphere the the the days will soon be getting shorter. Now the seeds will sprout. But unless you have grow lights or something, then then it's too late you have to artificially know that you're have a day length issue, which is one, I maybe should emphasize that.

290
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:30,000
If you take potato onion true seeds and plant them in like Arizona, you will be able to find in that gene pool that there is some differences in day length sensitivity versus whether you're in Canada.

291
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:49,000
So the day lengths do change according to latitude. And by see if you got bulbs from me in northern Utah. I have found out that they just don't perform in Texas or in Florida, or something because of the day length.

292
00:46:49,000 --> 00:47:02,000
So you would need to start your potato onions from true seed, and then pick and choose from that gene pool seeds that reacted better to your own latitude and day length.

293
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:19,000
Right. Okay, I have one more question. I planted clones from you Kelly in my garden last fall. So they came up this spring, they're out there growing when we walk out there I'll show them to you. Okay, but will they go to see this year because I planted them last fall or

294
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:36,000
next year. They will go to seed every year, but every year that they do go to see those seeds will diminish yearly, year after year to where I get this year I save and start them from seeds like in December, ready to plant in the spring.

295
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:53,000
Yes, yes. And if you don't want to plant those true seeds that you saved this year. If you don't have plans on planning them next year then you probably need to freeze those seeds so that the seeds would have a better germination rate in a year that you want to start

296
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,000
again from true seed.

297
00:47:55,000 --> 00:48:13,000
I'd like to thank Kelly for being on. Thank Julia and Holly for technical support. If you have a couple of minutes to stick around. Holly's going to walk outside with her camera and she's going to show us a quick tour of her kitchen garden.

298
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:24,000
Okay, we're going to walk out into that garden. So, last year this was my seed bed and I grew parsnips to go to seed, and then a lot of seed fell on the ground and they just fall into the ground.

299
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:29,000
And they just volunteered I didn't even know they were there but they came up this year.

300
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:36,000
And that's one person that went to seed last year and it came back this year. I've never had that happen before.

301
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:48,000
And these are some jokes, I was gonna say Jerusalem artichokes. Yeah, so we planted to last year and then this is all from two little tubers last year.

302
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:54,000
Yeah, they won't go away ever.

303
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,000
I stopped breeding sun roots because they won't go away ever.

304
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,000
Okay, can you hear us. Yeah.

305
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:09,000
We'll go over to the onions and garlics first, because that's what we've been talking about.

306
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,000
These are my potato onions.

307
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,000
These are garlics.

308
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:21,000
The little garlics were from Joseph's, and I planted them in the fall as bullbills and they came up.

309
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:28,000
So these, but these are all potato onions and then I planted cabbage from seed in my garden.

310
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,000
They're not very big but they'll grow.

311
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,000
So can you tell the difference of them by looking at them.

312
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:47,000
No, not for sure. The difference will be more when the bulbs start to come. Yes, you should be able to tell some difference with the, when the bulbs start to form.

313
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,000
These are my fava beans and they're starting to blossom.

314
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:59,000
And I planted kale last year to try to overwinter but it all winter kale they had two collards that made it there at the other end.

315
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,000
So these are just all potato onions coming down here.

316
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,000
And a few garlics.

317
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,000
They don't look great.

318
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:14,000
They're growing, but these are starting to get seeds on them. Yes they are.

319
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:21,000
And then I've got beets. These windered over and they're going to be my seed crop this year for my beets.

320
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:31,000
And these are just cabbages in here. That's my radishes that I saved seed last year and radish dropped on the ground and it just volunteered.

321
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:38,000
Wow. And here's some of my great fungi that likes to grow in my garden.

322
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,000
I don't eat them, but I let them grow and they.

323
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:50,000
And that's probably because you've got so much bark mulch. Yeah, the chips and then this is my two collards that I guess they're going to go to seed.

324
00:50:50,000 --> 00:51:03,000
All my other kale died and all my other collards didn't make it. And then these are fava beans. So those fava beans are cool looking.

325
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,000
So they're gonna, they did really good last year.

326
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,000
Okay, there's cabbage behind you.

327
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,000
So Holly lives in the field.

328
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:26,000
So I have peas. My rows are 70 feet long. There's squash and a little bit of kale coming up. Let's walk up through here.

329
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:31,000
This is my cabbage that you guys know about my land rice I'm starting.

330
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:37,000
It's really still just, these are the first crop that I overwintered.

331
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:46,000
And they're all the same variety so it's not really a land race yet but it's my first experience to get cabbage to overwintered so I could actually save seed.

332
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:51,000
And I have about 20 of those in that row.

333
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,000
So they made it.

334
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,000
Got parsnips and turnips.

335
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:02,000
Very nice that they made it through the winter. These are my true seed potatoes.

336
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,000
Last year I planted them as seeds.

337
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,000
This year I planted them as clones I just had them in my basement.

338
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,000
And I planted them this spring and they're all starting to grow really good.

339
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,000
And my beans.

340
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,000
And there's my rhubarb.

341
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,000
The rhubarb is the Morgan Valley heritage rhubarb.

342
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,000
This is my maximus.

343
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:38,000
And so we're really far behind some of you guys that have been, you're probably think oh my gosh but it will make it and produce they're just so small but that's our climate.

344
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:49,000
So just little lettuce and mustard and in here is celery but they're so small I've never grown it before.

345
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,000
So I don't know what it's going to do.

346
00:52:53,000 --> 00:53:01,000
Yeah, right there. Yeah, so I've got a little patch celery it's got to be weeded, find weed, lobster grow.

347
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:09,000
And then these are just regular onions that looks so beautiful Holly so big and no weeds.

348
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:13,000
And so I just got these little one. This is my deal.

349
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,000
Can you see it.

350
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,000
Yes, we see it good.

351
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:22,000
I have a call trying to come in and I don't know how to reject it.

352
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,000
That's my deal.

353
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:28,000
This is giant watermelon radishes.

354
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:32,000
I haven't pulled any yet I don't know how they're doing.

355
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,000
Never heard of those before.

356
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:40,000
They haven't bulb yet. They're just okay. They've got a lot of green.

357
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,000
And this is my other patch of fathers.

358
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:49,000
So the ones I showed you first are the ones I got from are going to see the exchange thing that we did.

359
00:53:49,000 --> 00:54:02,000
So we'll see how they turn out this one here is just a bunch of different ones that I bought different Baba beans from everywhere I could find and I just planned a few and you can see some are tall and some are short.

360
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:08,000
And I plan them on the opposite side of the garden just so I could see what was happening with those.

361
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:13,000
And then these are elderberries.

362
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,000
Holly temperatures at your place. That's it.

363
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,000
So now we'll come out.

364
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:32,000
I do have a couple fruit trees in here but just careful my temperatures. Yes, it is temperatures that Holly's place around 50 at night, and maybe 75 in the daytime.

365
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,000
So, rather cool.

366
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,000
Those are peach trees.

367
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,000
Yeah.

368
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:43,000
So if I show it again in the fall or I'll put some pictures up on our discourses.

369
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:50,000
But it'll be more beautiful later. It's just starting to write Do we have our next month's meeting.

370
00:54:50,000 --> 00:55:03,000
Next month is going to be Shane Simonson is going to meet with us in Australia. I did an interview with Shane recently on his podcast and so that will be a very interesting.

371
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,000
See all about from that.

372
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,000
Bye. Thank you very much.

373
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,000
It was very interesting.

374
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,000
Thank you. Bye.

375
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:42,000
Bye