In this episode of What the Prophets Say, join
me, Emma Stark, Jonah Wilson, and Matt Johnson
as we dive into what is it like to be a seer,
emotionally led by the spirit prophet, particularly
when you're a man in a world that doesn't like
righteous desire. Hello, loyal listeners, and
a very warm welcome to another episode of What
the Prophets Say with me, Emma Stark. I am joined
in the studio once again by... That wasn't very
tuneful. Wow. What an entrance, Jonah. What
an entrance. A lovely tune. Emma always comes
on these What the Prophets Say and does a little
song for most guests, doesn't she? Hang on, I've
got to try again. Is that better? I don't know.
We'll take it. You'll take it. Jonah Wilson,
Matt Johnson, welcome back. How are you? Wonderful,
thank you. So our American, our English and our
Irish, who's very good at making potatoes, reference
previous broadcast. But Geordie, do the Geordie
in Newcastle want to be their own nation, Matt?
I don't think so, actually. I think we're quite
content being Northern. We probably don't want
to be Southern or that part of England. Here
we are. Oh, very much so. If you guys make an
intentional effort to let me know, I am from
the North. Oh, yes, absolutely. We love the Scottish,
but anyone from any further than York, it's like...
Yeah, it's very aware. Bless them. Bless them,
you know. Our cultural and geographical idiosyncrasies
are now fully on display. But actually we just,
we released that because we're prophets. We have
to be apolitical. You're dead right. You are
dead right. Although I would like to say that
you likened me to Mrs. Doubtfire a minute ago.
Robin Williams in costume. But please tell me
I look and sound nothing like Mrs Doubtfire.
Heck no. I think it says in our contract, Jonah,
that we can't speak on behalf of this. So yes,
no, Emma, you sound and look nothing like Mrs
Doubtfire. Thanks. I don't know how I got like
into that. But anyway, I hope it's not a comment
on my age. No, but to be fair, Becca, every time
I try to do the Newcastle accent, I try to mock
her and she's like, you make me sound like Mary
Poppins every single time you do my accent. I
was like, and what's wrong with Mary Poppins?
A spoonful of sugar, house of medicine. Sorry,
sorry. Moving on to something spiritual very
fast before you and I break into a standard set
of musicals. The joy of working with Jonah is
that you know all the words to most of the musicals
that I know the words. too so it's a Matt you've
not joined in how's your singing voice absolutely
terrible however give me a Disney playlist Sarah
goes crazy she's like why do we have to listen
to Disney for three hours in the car and I'm
like every Disney song is amazing sing us your
favourite come on it has to be Hercules and I
can go the distance every millennial man absolutely
you know every millennial man He has that song.
I can be who I want to be. That's me. It's me.
I can go the distance. You know what makes it
even more magical? When you are in front of the
castle, Magic Kingdom, happily ever after, and
they pop Hercules on the castle and you're just
like, I feel like I'm a man. Ladies and gentlemen,
you have officially entered the Twilight Zone.
And I don't know what to say to you. So, guys,
these. gentlemen to my left are anointed men
of God. And they are, you're both in your 20s.
Yep. And coming up to some bigger birthdays.
And we're scheming. In fact, we have, I think,
Sam's turning 30. You are turning 30. You're
30 soon. And then I'll be 30. You'll be 30. I'm
turning 50. David's turning 50. We're all hitting
our big birthdays. And lots of celebration. But
what we hit kind of privately that we want to
bring to you today is particularly to talk to
them as men, if that's permitted. I know we get
very scared about the kind of misappropriating
roles and responsibilities. But we're going to
go there in that in Scripture, if I can set the
scene and then I'm going to kick the ball to
their feet to pass. Trying to put in a soccer
analogy. Sorry. Suzanne's giving you a thumbs
up. Is she for a soccer analogy? We're covering
all our favourites, soccer and musicals. There
are three types of prophets in Scripture, but
the two that we want to talk about particularly
today is the Nabi, N -A -B -I. That's just the
Old Testament Hebrew word for a certain category
of prophet. And they are the wordsmiths. They
bubble up with language. It's very much about,
and the Spirit of the Lord says, and it's a word
that is given. It's a gush of spoken or sung
revelation. I predominantly manifest like that
when the Spirit of God moves in me in the public
space. It sounds quite authoritative. It fills
the room, that nabby flow with the sense of the
word of the Lord or the command of the Lord or
the direction of the Lord. And it sometimes,
you know, because it comes from me in female
form, there's an awful lot of critique of, you
know, harsh or masculine. Whereas if a man did
it, it would seem, you know, like a thing to
be celebrated because it's very direct in orientation.
So you two gentlemen. are dominantly not that,
though you can become that if you need to and
you do dip in and out of that as required, but
you two have a very definite preference and calling
of the Lord to sit under the anointing of the
seer prophet. And that is a couple of different
words in Scripture. They are not nabi. It's not
linked to that word, but it is linked to the
sight, perception, emotion, sensory. uh connection
with god the sense of i felt i saw and rather
than i heard and i spoke It is my emotions were
subjected to the emotions of the weight of how
God felt. I was overwhelmed in visionary state
and I was in an ecstatic state of the possession
of the spirit. And sometimes that feels almost
a little bit more feminized because it's a communication
that is usually I felt, I saw. I sensed and it
is quite deeply emotionally orientated and given
scent from the Lord so that you burden bear his
emotional status with him in that. And that is
not unusual, but in some senses it is. thought
of as quite feminized forms, and yet you're sitting
here as true, courageous men of God who live
in that way before the Lord, lives laid down,
but very much warrior men living within the emotions
of God. And sometimes you get the criticism in
reverse that I get. of like, well, you know,
should you not be looking more, I don't know,
male in how you deliver a prophetic word. And
yet you are reflections of the heart of God.
Now we can all do both. I have watched you guys
nabby and you've watched me seer in my delivery
of words. So we train in. GPA, just to be able
to steer revelation in, to be perfectly honest,
however God wants it to be disseminated. But
I want to spend this episode that we have together
in asking you what it is like to sit in that
role. as if I can say men in their 20s, young
men, you're not quite in middle age. David and
I are very definitely both feet now in middle
age, although David assuredly tells me that 49
is not yet middle age, but perimenopause tells
me differently. And the joy of our ages and stages.
But you guys have made some choices to not shirk.
or hide away from that particular expression
of God, the God who is jealous, the God who weeps,
the God who feels about his own very deeply,
the God of pursuit, the God of desire, the God
of Romans 8, where his spirit groans, the God
who gives to both Ezekiel, Daniel, and... John,
Isaiah also, and others in Scripture, a strong
sight gift who coaches Jeremiah. What do you
see, Jeremiah? And Jeremiah in chapter one is
schooled by the Lord in a sight gift. So as I
set the framework for particularly, not just
the sight, because the sight maybe is too easy,
but the full breadth of what seer in Scripture
represents, the rah, where the word is rah, R
-A -A -H in its English transliteration, of a
very all -encompassing possession of all that
you are in a sensory way by the Spirit of God
that he might put revelation and impress revelation
on you from the inside out. Can you talk, let's
go to early years before we go to the adult ascent
to that call. Who wants to start? What is it
like to know that you are feeling deeply? Yeah,
I think for me, one of my earliest, certainly
earliest memories is probably when I'm roughly
around 16 and I'm really trying to push in for
a relationship with Jesus. And there's this whole
sense of the... the church culture in England
where, oh, why are you doing that? Is that not
a little bit sissy? That was the word that was
used at the time, given it was years ago. Why
would you want to push in further? And I really
started to retreat and there was something in
me one day, I had a dream and the Lord had just
said, go out, take a bag and go and give, you're
going to meet someone on the street, give them
some clothes. I thought, I've got no idea where
I'm going. Why would I do this? I'm 16 and my
parents gracefully was like, go for it, you'll
be fine. And I'm walking in the street and I
see an angel and he says, follow me this way.
And we go down this road and I meet this guy
who needs some clothes. He has an encounter with
Jesus. He then gives his life to Jesus, starts
attending the church. blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, all this great stuff. And I felt the pull
then of, do I retreat and go back into myself
and go, actually, even though the Lord had pressed
this, like you said, Emma, this sense that really
bubbled up and rushed out. Do I retreat back
and go, actually, I don't want that. And I feel
like sometimes as men, we can. um hide away from
those feelings and go let's lean into the more
masculine which is oh no I hear from the Lord
quietly and um contemplatively yes absolutely
almost sedate yeah yeah yeah and I think for
me um very similarly I think when I started on
my journey um it was probably seven or eight
that I recognize some level of I'm a dreamer.
It started in dreams. So it's the Lord's taking
me into heaven. He's showing me heaven. I'm having
encounters with God himself. He's handing me
things in heaven. That was kind of the realm.
And my mom really empowered me in that and was
like, tell me more about the dreams that you're
having. But I think it's right around that puberty,
adolescence age, that 12, 13, 14. No one said
anything to me. No one even had that language
of don't be a sissy. But I think just culture
shuts down naturally the sense of men feeling.
So because your feeling is then shut down, that
also then shuts down your ability to see in the
spirit. Yeah. Okay. Is any of that? a fear of
feeling the wrong thing and not wanting unrighteous
desires? So you neuter old desire? Yes, I think
so. I think, speaking very honestly, there was
confusion for me growing up. So I'm then sat
in a, oh, well, people are saying these things.
So maybe the unrighteous desire. is something
that is my portion. And I think it's obviously
a lie. And because you're bold enough to step
out and say, I am feeling things and seeing things
in the spirit, the enemy very quickly wants to
try and shut that down through usually friends,
sometimes family members, through very, very
harsh, very cold comments. Don't know if you
had a... Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's
interlaced. I think there's definitely a piece
of that with the unrighteous desire. I think
the other piece for me was. There is a sense
of because of my background and because of family
job losses and being constantly kind of in a
state of fight or flight that you don't realize
as a kid. But there's a sense of just stuff everything
down. Don't feel. And so when you do that at
a young age, you're also then stuffing the gift.
And it really wasn't until I started doing the
deliverance, the inner healing, recognizing,
wow, I've hindered my emotions. I've hindered
my ability to. like let's start with just even
the ability for a guy to cry and cry over something.
When you suppress that, then because you're suppressing
your own ability to feel, you're also, there's
no way that you can feel God's emotions. You've
just suppressed it all. And so then there's the
sense, like you said, you go into contemplation.
Oh, I can read God what he's saying in scripture.
But even the ability for me, I would say, to
say the words, I hear God's voice. That was probably
all shut down until probably my, well, since
until 2019. So I was 21, 22. Wow. That's how
long from 12 until 21, 22. I think even worship
though. Yeah, absolutely. And that's something
I love about the culture here. Like I love that
our young people are sold, so sold out for worshiping
the Lord. Growing up in my background, worship
was so hindered. So if you even follow David's
example of being sold out, heart after God's
heart, all of that. Dancing before the Lord.
Dancing before, like undignified. That was seen
as, why are you doing that? You should almost,
and it comes back to that lie, you should be
seen and not heard. That was something spoken
very much over. I think what interests me about
your story, Matt, is that you were a rugby player
and that of all of the sports within the United
Kingdom context, the British Isles is seen as
perhaps the most male, if that's the right word.
It's actually quite a brave sport, a very dangerous
sport. I mean, I know they've cleaned it up a
little bit with a bit more safety rules around
concussion, but injury and... and it doesn't
have that soccer feeling of people who roll around
the floor at the slightest tackle. It has a man's
man feel about it. Talk to me about what it's
like to sit in that place where... you're actually
highly achieving in something that is seen as
very masculine. And then at the same time, the
Lord is pulling you into, I want you to know
me and I want to overwhelm you with my presence.
And I want you to be one who is a representation
of my heart. What's that like? Yeah. it honestly
it felt at the time like i was living a double
life um almost like i can have this very male
very masculine rugby portion and no one could
know about the relationship with god so what
i'm then doing is dwarfing that so the lord isn't
able to move at all really until he has my full
yes but trying to merge them both into the same
person. Effectively, what I was doing is splitting
myself and not being a whole person. And that's
quite hard, especially as a teenager. And I see
so many young people now and my heart is absolutely
for the young men of the next generation to not
feel like they can't be who the Lord has made
them to be. they should be able to feel and we
should champion that as men. I would have loved
for a guy my age to come to someone, say you're
Samuel's age, Emma, and go, you're doing a great
job. I wish I was as bold or as brave as you.
And maybe we were in some ways because we had
to start to break out and we looked to see what
happened 100 years ago and even the transition
then, it's massive compared to... you know, men,
I'm talking about men. And the trajectory of
how we are now becoming more accepted of these
are my emotions. God gave me them. God clearly
has emotion. How do we then steward them properly?
And I think that needs to be the question where
we really start to draw out for young guys, how
do you steward that emotion properly? It's a
great emotion to feel, to see, and all of that
golden stuff. What do we do as the slightly older
generation to go to the younger generation, come
up higher, come up higher? Yeah. I think the
other piece too is because the church, I'm talking
capital C church at this point. Yes, in the broader
sense. Did not have a, for a long time, a value
in feeling God. in the art of God, like that
God loves the arts, that God loves creativity.
Because there's that gap. I even had a friend
who was in high school, never struggled with
any sort of same -sex attraction, but simply
because he was creative, simply because he had
a Davidic call in his life and was very expressive,
that label is then applied. Like there's only,
you must be. Something must be wrong with you.
And he went through confusion, not because he
ever struggled with that. He never he always
liked females, but simply because that label
was then put on him. He then started to be like,
well, am I? I must be because this is what's
being told. This is what the this is what they're
telling me. And because the church did not have
a place for someone who. tends to be more air
quote theater kid loves music loves the arts
encounters god can see god through that you now
are like struggling and i think that's what creates
even attention and your ability like where is
my home where is my safe place within the body
of christ and i think there's there is such a
power in in our words in the power and what we
are decreeing over people and something something
like well you're a sissy or oh well you you must
be gay because you you feel and you're creative
that is such a curse such a curse and how many
times are we hearing that over a generation right
that now we have men that quite honestly don't
know how to be men because we think, oh, well,
it must be by this example, but where we've only
got one portion because we've only been preached
one portion from Scripture from other, not all
men, but other older men, older ministers that
have only preached a very narrow -minded view
of the Bible and who God is. And a very Western
mindset, because if we go back to Scripture,
we go back to the Old Testament. We're looking
at seers, primarily actually men. Yeah, that
is true. They're mainly men. They're mainly men
feeling. But if you look at, we cannot look at
Christianity. We cannot look at Jewish roots,
which is what our faith is based in. Jesus is
a Jewish man from a lens. That is a Greco -Roman
Western view. Eastern view was the mystery of
God. Eastern view was the feeling of God. Eastern
view that Judaism and Christianity stems from
was very much, I'm feeling God. I'm in God. And
we were even talking about this before we started
the broadcast, or maybe it was the previous broadcast,
of what does it mean to be in God? When was the
last time a man had a conversation and said,
hey are you in god today what does it look like
to feel him what have you when you woke up this
morning what was it like to be in him the the
the new testament concept of i have put on christ
yes yeah yes i am inside that yeah i am one with
the spirit of god that kind of concept There's
several kind of thoughts buzzing around my head.
I do want you to be able to give some top tips
to even our male listeners, even the women who
are raising men, but the sense of what is helpful
to say and what do we bless. I'll just tell you
a kind of personal thing and see if I need to
edit this out because it's about my children.
I am parenting some extreme children. And you're
smiling because you know them all. I mean, in
all of their unique ways. And some of their friends
are very extreme too. And I saw them on social
media. We didn't capture it, but somebody else
in another organization captured one of my children
and their friends. in a very high -octane worship
environment and they are going for it. And both
of them that are in my care, one my flesh and
blood, one not, but in my care, are weeping before
the Lord. And to me, it's beautiful. To me, I'm
watching them on the social media set an example,
one girl, one boy in this situation, and they
are whoring themselves out. And it's such a laid
down, generous, Davidic expression of he, God,
is wonderful. And the I will not hold back. And
my initial thought of watching another ministry's
social media capture them was, A sense of right
maternal pride of I'm so glad that those in my
care, male and female, flesh and non -flesh,
in another city are living this extravagant life
before the Lord. And I felt, and I'm texting
them, I'm so proud of you. Jesus is all over
you. I bless this expression. And then in the
private moment, I thought. Oh, oh, oh, you're
about to get criticism for this. You're about
to get a behind the scenes criticism. for your
extravagance before the Lord. And I knew it by
the word of the Lord. And I thought, do I get
on the phone? Do I not get on the phone? Do I
warn them? How do I pray? Where everything that
I want for them, wild pioneering, wild expression,
is about to be critiqued by their peers. And
so I left it. This is a very personal story.
One of them phones me and I has a dream and God's
already warned them. Thank the Lord. And I hear
myself saying this. You're a pioneer. but you're
a pioneer in emotions for a generation. You are
called to pioneer generosity displayed to the
Lord, you and your friends. And as men and women,
because these guys are a bit older, in their
early 20s, you are supposed to wail, weep, dance,
shout. feel what he feels over cities and people
groups. And you are a gift. And I heard myself
say this. Your emotions are a gift. They are
a gift to a generation to not have to hide so
that you accidentally develop. unrighteous desire
because the church does not let out righteous
desire. So you don't know what to do with what
you feel. And suddenly pornography is more acceptable
than the extremes before your God. So I'm going
to bless you as a pioneer. And I'm going to say
this to you as the parent in your life and as
the Christian leader in your life, though there's
other clergy and other places around who we bless.
I'm going to say this to you. The pioneer will
always be, oh, that's a bit too much. That's
a bit too much. We must learn to say thank you,
Jesus, for the pioneers. Thank you, Jesus, that
you give us those who make us think. What about
that? And I felt this, perhaps the frustration
of the years of my life, come in the conversation
with my own children. Where is the voice that
says hallelujah for a provocation? Finally. Finally.
For a people who will go, he's worthy. And I
saw him and I met him and I encountered him and
he spoke to me and I wailed before him. Where
are those who will say in leadership today, Thank
you, Jesus, that you gave us those who will do
that for us. And I find myself saying to my children
what I wished somebody had said to me, what I
say to you as also those in my care. Thank the
Lord for what you provoke in the body of Christ.
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think as you're speaking,
this gets back to some of the other pet peeves,
I would say, of us. And that when we say the
words, we want revival, we want revival, what
we're really sometimes saying is we want sameness.
We want to go back to the good old days in the
1970s and the Billy Graham crusades. But the
reality is we're in a season and an epoch of
glory to glory. And if we had Jesus come again
the same old way, we'd have the same old problem
because we're not being converted into a new
level of glory. And the reality is when you say,
I want revival, are you creating an atmosphere?
Are you creating a surrounding space that invites
your next generation, your kids and your grandkids
to be able to capture the essence of where God
wants to take them into the heart of God, into
feeling him? into seeing him, into saying on
earth as it is in heaven? Or do you just want,
at the end of the day, Christian nationalism
where we just have air quote righteousness, but
we don't have hearts that have actually been
turned? I want to ask you guys to give top tips.
It doesn't matter whether people are your age
or, you know, whether they're male or female.
What top tips? that you wish somebody had said
to you that are those permission -giving things.
And as your brains whirl, for me, it's the sense
that if you have nobody in your life that says,
don't you dare retreat, let me be the one that
says that to you. We need the fullness of how
God leads you. of how God speaks to you, of how
you encounter him. We need that as a provocation
in the earth to remember that he's worth encountering,
that he desires a people who will come and meet
him heart to heart, that he might lead them glory
to glory, for he is a God. of encounter he's
a god whose great command is that he leaves the
spirit that we might be commanded not to read
about him but to fellowship with him not just
to manifest his gifts but to fellowship with
him not just to speak in tongues but to fellowship
with him are you hearing that when the word of
the lord you know talks about me that may the
love of god yeah And the grace of the Lord Jesus
Christ and the fellowship of the Spirit be with
you all now and evermore. That great grace that
we're asked to bring, that it is not that we
neuter the Spirit on the earth into his gifts
or his fruit, but that the highest accolade or
the highest command, the highest call there for
the portion of the Godhead who is the Spirit,
is that you are in fellowship with him. So go
be in fellowship. with them and go and show that
that is not hysterical it's biblical and we here
in this classical context want to bless you to
remember your call and if everybody else says
oh I'm not sure about that let us be the ones
who say that is needed and that your provocation
is where your well done is top tips gentlemen
I think one thing I would want to say to everyone
listening is that, yes, we are fighting for you
now. And you can see us on your screens right
now or you can hear us in your ears. But also,
if you have eyes to see, you will see that heaven
is around and about you. They are fighting for
you. And it is not just you. And even though
you may feel alone and isolated, get around people
like these guys to my right who will champion
you. And that would be one of my main top tips.
Find people that are like minded and do not settle
for people that are less. I believe that an equally
yoked thing is scripture in the Bible. is not
just for relationships as in man and wife, but
also for good relationships. So find good relationships
and don't stop fighting for that. That is such
a precious thing, friends, where as soon as you
find that and you have your people, you can go
deeper. You know what it says where two or three
are gathered together. Being gathered together
means living with each other or not living with,
but... living in an amount amongst each other
where you're rubbing up against each other, iron
sharpening iron. Don't settle for any less of
a relationship than that. And also another tip
for me is find leaders that worship and worship
undignified. And a shout out to David and Emma.
David Stark is a man that... will worship the
Lord no matter where he is, no matter what church
setting. And that is so encouraging for any man,
any woman, or any person looking going, am I
going to look like a fool? Or no, my leader's
already undignified because he wants to be so
like the Lord. I mean, we have great leaders.
So that would be another top tip. Absolutely.
Yeah. I think a couple of things that I think,
especially with the seer gift, number one, and
I'm going to speak Gen Z language with this,
do not gaslight your own discernment. It starts
there. We have to start in the place of there's
so many times, so many examples where you go
into an atmosphere, you feel something that is
discernment from the Lord. You say it can't be
true. It can't be true. It can't be true. And
you gaslit your own discernment. I'm speaking
to myself here because even in here, there's
moments. And at the same time, you pair that,
though. This is the tension of Scripture. You
pair discernment. with still assuming the best
until proven otherwise. And that is a hard lesson.
You have to learn that of, I'm feeling this in
the atmosphere. I'm feeling accusation, or I'm
feeling Leviathan in the atmosphere, or maybe
even using feeling is too much for you. Maybe
you're seeing something. You're like, I see anger
in the atmosphere, but no, I'm not going to partner
with that. What you need to do is first start
and say, okay, I'm feeling this, or I'm seeing
this, or I'm discerning this. Whichever language
best suits you, listener and viewer, start there
and then take it to the Lord and say, Lord, why?
What am I feeling? Am I feeling myself? Is there
something that I need to deal with with you?
Or am I feeling your heart? And then from that
place, there's three keys that one of my friends
that used to love me taught me, which is belief
awareness and guarding your heart so first step
into belief i believe i can encounter god come
on yeah from that place of belief every day i
have an opportunity to encounter him every moment
okay now that i believe just simple belief and
faith let me become aware where is jesus in the
room where is the spirits in the room where is
the angelic as i'm driving my car oh i I think
I see a principality there, but I see God's angel
here, and I see this angel warring against this.
I see this messenger. Now I'm stepping into the
awareness. And if you're wrestling where you
can't see, you're not discerning, the third piece
is the guarding your heart. How are you creating
systems and rhythms of rest, protecting yourself
so that you're walking in righteousness and keeping
short accounts, walking in purity? Guarding your
heart also includes being in your scripture,
being in your word. But then also you need to
get a notebook and you need to be writing down
what you're hearing from God. Sometimes that's
a simple one -liner and he says, this is what
you're dealing with in the atmosphere. And you're
just getting that one -liner and you're writing
it down. But sometimes it's a novel and you don't
know until you just start to write out, this
is what I'm seeing. And then you're asking the
questions. Why am I seeing this? Who is this
addressed to? Okay, why am I seeing this thing
swirl around Emma? Lord, what is that thing swirling
around Emma? What do I need to do with that?
Do I need to let her know of it? Do I need to
talk to her intercessors? And you're starting
to engage now with God, with the heavenly hosts
now, where you're starting to partner with the
Holy Spirit. And that's where I would say that
you can start to step into deeper levels of being
a seer. Very good. Gentlemen, you have richly
blessed our audience today. Thank you very much.
And I'm full of ideas in terms of programs for
the next generation. I think you guys need to
put your heads together to run. But anyway, thank
you very much, loyal listeners, for joining us
for this episode of What the Prophets Say. Hello,
friends. I've got something exciting to share
with you. If you want to reach out and grab hold
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