In this episode of What the Prophets Say with me, Emma Stark, and once again joined by Mr. Sam,
Prophet Robertson, and we are talking about your urgent need to get a rulership governing
mental and thinking so that you're not just leading, but you are governing. Join us for
another intense episode of What the Prophets Say. Well, good afternoon, good morning, good
evening, depending what time zone you are picking this up in. Welcome, loyal listeners to another
episode of What the Prophets Say. We are once again in our Glasgow studios just north of the
city centre so that you can geographically cite us. We rent a studio space while we work on
building our own just above the M8 motorway, the motorway that goes between Glasgow and Edinburgh,
and I've got my production team in the studios. You don't often, well, you never hear their voices.
That is Todd Weller, who leads that team for us, an amazing man of God, and his psychic look,
high look through the glass, look as waving, and they are our production crew usually with us the
whole time who do audio and video and lick us into shape and say, are you ready to broadcast and
start wittering about the cheese, your favourite cheese? Hi, are you Sam? Yeah, I'm great. That was
an introduction. We'll need to do a behind the scenes and show you all the behind the scenes
team at some point for what the prophets say. Maybe you'll get that exclusive on the app.
We'll do an exclusive on the app of a behind the scenes. We'll get them to sit here and tell
you what it's like having to listen to the two of us speak all day because they listen to us
when we're recording, but also when we're not. I'm fully expecting them to sound like us. Yes,
absolutely. And just going to talk to look through the glass. Look, are you developing a Northern
Irish accent? Yes, he's nodding and saying definitely. Particularly the word par, I hope
you've totally amended that. You've developed that. Taken the W out of it, par. There we go.
Place it with an A. But anyway, I'm glad you're joining us as we sit here. I actually have,
was it the last episode we were talking about how on earth do you choose or maybe it's the time
before that? How do you choose a coffee shop that's not dodgy and full of nonsense? So like,
you don't want to be drinking out of mermaid siren spirits. I personally can't deal with
Nero's coffee shop. David really likes Nero's. Oh, it's the best coffee. Is it Scotland only? We
maybe had this chat before or is it a whole week? I think it's UK, but it's good coffee. It's better
than all the other chains. Just think of, but is it not spelled a different way? No, the emperor
Nero. Is it not N-E-R-O? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hi, I'll switch to spelled Nero. So with an I, I don't know.
I'm having a brain moment. I don't know. Sorry. I'm having a moment. Niro. I don't know. I don't know
how I got there in my head. Yeah. Please edit that out. How did you sleep last night? I
slept really well. Deeply. Clearly not. Maybe not as not enough sleep. So I've actually got a
Costa coffee cup. This is product placement in my hand with Chai T Latte, which is my favourite in
it. I always think Costa. Costa a lot. Costa a lot. Anyway, moving on. So we have got lots to talk
about today. Actually, we're recording a number of these back to back. And let me introduce a concept
to you, my lovely friends, as we stretch you and lead you as best as we can into biblical thinking
and biblical truth. There is a curious verse in Genesis one that talks about dominion,
subduing and having dominion. It's probably worth us reading. I have a new living translation in
front of me. I know a lot of you use the American standard version, but that is not the one we tend
to use here. I don't know anybody in the British asked me to read that version, but yes. So we're
in verse 28 in Genesis one. You will know it well. God bless them and said to them,
be fruitful and increase in number, fill the earth and subdu it. Subdu. That's quite a weighty word.
Other translations talk about having dominion. Rule, it says. Oh goodness, that was a bit of a
voice crack there. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the air and over every living
creature that moves on the ground. And so although that's quite difficult, we don't often know how
to deal with the word dominion. That's not the word I want to pull out today. I want to pull out the
word rule. And so there is a positional authority that is given there. Let me say that again,
a positional authority that you are a significantly graced, anointed. If I use the word superior,
spirit being, let's put it in those, I'm quite happy with those words to rule and to have dominion
to subdue and to fill. Now that has a sense of reproduction abided of increasing the kingdom of
God, of winning souls is within the fruitful and rule of making things that are bad be blessed.
In here is the implication of the God who turns things around and that you work with him and that
you as his hands and his feet are able to see turn around. You're able to see fruit. You're able to
see turn around. That's ministering to some of you right up from the get go because you're not
seeing fruit and you're not seeing turn around. And yet this is the mandate at the instruction
at the beginning of the Bible. God said, this is who you are. So you're supposed to one who says,
this situation turns around in the name of Jesus. I decree it because this is the role I have.
I decree turn around and it puts responsibility on our shoulders to do that. I do think that we
need to sit in the word rule however, which is so much more elevated and above subdue and fill,
although they're punchy words, this anointing of rulership on the earth. Sam.
Yeah, I think this is a massive learn that we need to do. I actually don't think it's in our minds.
It's not in our mindsets. We don't have the mindset of rulership and part that is because we have
probably witnessed or been on the receiving end of corrupt rulership at times. But we now stand
at a point where we need to regain the call to rule, the call to create turn around, to decree
turn around and to lead. And I think ruling leading, but the word rule, it's actually quite a potent
word. It's quite like, oh, do I like it? Do I not rule? How do I feel about that? And our listeners,
I'm sure you'll be going, how do I feel about that? It's the same with the word dominion.
Also, some people love it, but some people really don't, you know, like it at all. But the concept
there is that you are meant to have a level of authority that you put to practice, that you
outwork where you call the shots in the spirit realm and you determine the atmosphere you live
under and you determine the outcome of situations, not just by self effort, but by decree and by
authority. So I want to push a couple of other scriptures into this conversation. I do think
that we have understood spiritual leadership and we are batting around that. In these days,
particularly, what does leadership look like? How does it feel? How does it sound? What should it
do? What are its strengths and its weaknesses so that we have brilliantly gifted leaders? And I
think we're going to come to that in our next episode. So hold on to your hats for that. But I
do think that we have had spiritual leadership, but we have not yet had spiritual rulership.
And so when we're in the fullness of the Ecclesiast scripture or Ecclesia in Matthew 16, where Jesus
says, I will build my Ecclesia or Ecclesia, I will build my churches, how the translations render it,
that word meaning my rulership, my legislative governing senate. So Christ is saying in
Caesarea Philippi, I will build my rulership team, my ruling people. Now that is not about
ugly empire and top down force, but it is a mindset that's different from leadership. It's a
mindset, I think, that I would define leadership. You have people following you and you are
taking people where they cannot go themselves. That is the purpose, my personal, preferred
definition of leadership. You take a people to where they cannot get themselves and to who they
cannot become without you. And that has a strong servant element to it. It has a strong corporate
dynamic because you're trying to corral people into a togetherness because you know that when we
are together, one puts a thousand to flight, two puts 10,000 to flight. So leaders are pulling
people into place to go where they cannot go by themselves. That's my definition of leadership.
Do you want to sit in that definition of leadership? Taking a people where they cannot go themselves.
Yeah, that's a really powerful definition. And I think that has to wash the leader and those
listening who call to leadership. You have to get that in your mind because that means you have to
journey some things extensively so that you are able to then get others into that place themselves.
That actually you're only able to get there. You're only able to take them there because you went
ahead and you did that for yourself. And I do think that is why leaders are put through the ringer
in many seasons. Double testing. We'll talk about that more in future episodes because actually
you have to get to a place that you then haul a people into and that means you have to journey
through some difficult seasons, testing seasons, difficult decisions where you have to choose,
choose, choose, choose, choose again so that you're then able to pull people into whatever it may be.
So that's the definition of leadership. I'm able to take a people where they cannot get themselves.
Rulership, this kingly place where we're now we're in Ephesians and we're in Ephesians 2
1 where it talks about us seated with Christ in heavenly places. This concept of this co-ruling
co-ayers, co-inheritors seated in on-thrones ruling with Christ. Those sorts of concepts
are pulling in together and that's not just leading that's ruling and that I would say you
define slightly differently and that is about command. And it's not a command necessarily of
people although sometimes there is that element to it but it is a command of responsibility into
atmospheres. In other words when you are in rulership or governing you are going to a place
where you fight battles on behalf of the people so they don't have to fight them.
And there is this sense that I'm going in a rulership mindset to make sure the future is
safe and secure that I am going ahead to govern and to rule over principalities and powers and
it's not any I don't want us to mistake that with dictatorship or anything ugly like that
but rulership has this place in the midst of enemies to subdue enemies. I come not just to
lead, I come not just to keep a people in time, I come not just to take the people where they
cannot go by themselves but I come to go into the future as a ruler as one who has a more strategic
foresight. I come to govern the future of the people, I lead in the present but I govern for
the future and I actually believe that leadership has a present tense about it but rulership and
government has a future tense above about it. So for me that's my personal definitions of it
that if I'm thinking about ruling over the efficiency, the burdens and the air that I am
making sure there's longevity and legacy and protection and I'm taking medium to long term
decisions and I'm governing for the security of a people's future. Now that puts you immediately
as a high ranking spiritual warfare specialist by anointing and call. Now I said we wanted
some scriptures, Ephesians one is obviously there but where I would go to predominantly
is Psalm 110 and it has, it's a real favorite verse of us at the moment where it says that the
last phrase in Psalm 110 verse two is rule where in the midst of your enemies and this is,
we've talked about this before Sam, the Psalm 110 is the most quoted scripture in the New Testament,
I think it's alluded to about 27 different times, it's picked up it's a a a a a a Psalm of great
strength, it talks about the superiority of the Messiah, it's re-quoted in Matthew 22,
it talks about the power of the ascended Jesus, that's Peter preaching at Pentecost, it's
first Corinthians, Wurlun dominions, superiority of Jesus over the angels in Hebrews one,
again it's actually in Ephesians one that we talked about Jesus Christ at the right hand of God,
it's really talking about a par position of Jesus, this elevated par position of Jesus
who governs and rules where positionally in the place of opposition and enemies. So this is this
anointing that says look I think we're missing it, I think we're trying to be good leaders
which is very in the moment of corralling and come with me, at the most a good leader has a three to
five year vision and that's a good thing for a leader to have but this spiritual governing that
says I'm securing the legacy for me of prophets way beyond my death, I have to govern some things
in the spirit, I have to rule in the midst of the enemies, I have to rule over nature or over
opposition like Genesis one would say and I think you have to lay hands on yourself and say God
I thank you that you've given me for impact and influence and that you've given me
to extend the borders of your kingdom and I acknowledge my leadership call but now I want
to acknowledge that you've given me rulership and governance right the way through your word
from Genesis one here into Sam 110 and then into Ephesians one where we're seated with Christ in
heavenly places and Matthew 16 and that I cannot shirk away from taking responsibility to govern
over principalities and powers and to govern for the security of the people in my care in their
future. And leadership therefore is much more about people whereas government and rulership is
about principalities and powers and the spirit realm and the future and I think in leadership
if you just have that mindset you are rightly responsive or reactive to where the people are
at that's how you lead because you need to be aware of where the people are at but when you are
then add on to that that rulership mindset there is a revelation element to it about the future
and actually you are much more you're then required to be I think more brave in your decision
makings because you know your decision isn't just about the people now but about their future
themselves and the people in the future and there's an introductory verse I think it's Sam 112
where the introduction to it says let this prophetic word be written or released that a
generation not yet born may praise the Lord let there be something that comes forth now a word
that comes forth now that secures worship in a generation that actually doesn't exist at the
moment and I think that is rulership where there is this space of decision making there's this space
of warfare I guess rulership has such a warfare element to it where you are going in the spirit
realm to open up some things for generations that actually aren't yet even formed or born right now
that's very good Sam and I think you then are pushed into this to consider other scriptures
particularly I've turned to judges chapter five I have to say this is a personal favorite this is
the story of Deborah and by verse two this is the song of Deborah when the princes in Israel
take the lead um fascinating concept when the princes in Israel now that is talking about this
marriage of those who are anointed to govern and rule because they're princes when the princes in
Israel take the lead so it's this fusing together of governance rulership and leadership at the same
time it then says this the people willingly offer themselves so this sense of when there's credibility
of leadership and there's credibility of the securing of the future in rulership and governance
the people actually don't rebel against that they willingly opt in and we've come to this weird place
where we're so anti-leadership or anti-experts or you know anti the science or anti this that and
the other like we actually know better and we do not know better at all there because God lets
his leaders into some things because they have a need to know to secure the future and this sense
of the fact that when people see good governance good leadership good rulership they offer themselves
and you get a volunteer spirit and could it be that we have the remnant incomplete and utter
disarray not because you know oh they're not holy enough or somebody there's something liberal going
on in the ideology no i actually think it is because leaders are reticent and hesitant to say
I understand yes i need to be holy i understand that i need to lead you and take you where you
cannot go yourself but i also understand that i have responsibility for your children and your
children's children and the governance and the release and the liberation of all that you are
down your generational line for people you and i will never know who are not yet born who we will
never meet till we are in glory but i have such a government mindset a rulership mindset on me
that i am talking about the legacy stuff and the freedom and the liberation portion that i want
to see your family opt into the fullness of the all you can be and i am governing to release a
movement of the army of god in the earth no wonder with governance and leadership and the
securing of the future you get people willingly offer themselves i mean it's right there in the
sam is sam 110 anyway rule in the midst of your enemies and what's the verse that follows that
your troops will be willing on your day of battle arrayed in holy spread splendor your young people
will come to you there is this opting in and i think look let's talk practically i talked to
so many leaders particularly of our prophetic nests and prophetic communities and often they
say to me you know people just aren't volunteering and they make it a the people's issue they're
not volunteering they're not volunteering they're not volunteering and time and time again it comes
back to because you're not fully wearing the cloak of leadership and of ruling and if you stand
and rule and lead people will opt in and people will volunteer the lack of volunteering in the
world just now i mean i have i have not known a culture and a generation so resistant to
volunteering and to giving of themselves and which is so intrinsic to our faith and to our belief
in jesus we give of ourselves and it is we can easily point the finger and wag the finger and
say oh you're this you're that but actually we've got to say is there a leadership spirit is there
are there those who are ruling that actually releases when you rule the ability to opt into
the people i think what rulership understands which is different from leadership rulership
understand the amount of people you need to increase the kingdom of god because that rulership
understands the increase of the territory leadership doesn't always get that so rulership
understands the bindries need to increase and the kingdom of god needs to increase and so i
understand that i've got to push the bindries and that takes everybody that takes everybody
active engaged released equipped so i think you're right you can't really read sam 1110
rule in the midst of your enemies and the people opt in and it actually says verse three i will
work your in your um read you've got that one open i've got judges five your your your troops will
be welling on your day of battle yeah and um judges five so that sam 110 and judges five saying the
same thing when the princes in israel take the lead when the people willingly offer themselves
so in other words god works in people's hearts to follow you gladly and not begrudgingly when
when you're leading no not always but when you are governing and ruling and securing the borders
i'm pushing the borders of the kingdom of god forward so in other words there's a joy that is
assured and a new ability to opt in with ease and a provocation of the saints to arise and to
get into place when government and rulership is present on the leaders and that is massive and
you go through the the deborah song i'm still in judges five here uh village villagers in israel
would not fight or other translations say uh village life had ceased in israel were in verse
seven they held back until i deborah arose until i arose a mother in israel and then it goes on god
choose new leaders when war came to the city gates so um and then it talks about the princes so the
whole conversation is about this arising and deborah is flicking between in deborah song the
language of leadership and rulership of princes and war leaders and she's interchanging in her song
this concept that mixes not just the people who um are led but a people who expand the borders which
is about government growth multiplication of leaders a release of a new generation of leaders
a new legacy of leaders because she arose and ruled i do think that there are different
anointings that struggle with this yeah i do think that if you're a shepherd or a teacher by
orientation and you are low risk by inclination risk averse and you're about lifelong nurturing
or you're about lifelong teaching there is a sense of can i lead you safely and can i lead you
without the sense of pushing any boundaries so what i think you get within the shepherding
teaching community is small churches there's nothing wrong with that but you do get a cap on
growth you get smallness because there's maybe leadership into safety and nurture but there's
not rulership into expanding the borders and governance and yet jesus builds what i will
build my ecstasy and my governance so i do think i would like you to go and think this through a
little bit more gud could you give me not just a credible leadership anointing but i would like
to understand rulership and governance and securing the future and risk taking and increasing your
kingdom and pushing the borders and securing these people for the generations not just molly
coddling in the moment so that there's lifelong nurture but i'm looking beyond into the generations
of those who will rule and reign and i do think that has got to be a hands on your head and
contention in prayer god could you anoint me and lead me into a governance and rulership
capability so that we tear down the enemy and increase the borders of the kingdom
um what a prayer and we need that now i don't think we've we've seen that level
of rulership and governance yet no i think we've seen small mindedness yeah i do think when we
get some larger churches and of course i run with david something that's kind of medium size now i
suppose and we're beyond the small in terms of reach and remit and listeners and i do think
that there's a definite step up between i'm going to lead a people to how can i secure something
for there's a very definite it's a different thought process very different thought process
there's no doubt about it i do think they're very gifted larger mega church leaders my
instinct around that is they are good gatherers but they are not good senders and government and
and rulership is more in the sending because it's pushing borders of the kingdom of of god
of the renay and isiah of the increase of his government peace will be no end so my concern
with um economies of scale is that's fine up to a point but it's problematic if you don't
rule and govern for the sake of the borders of the kingdom of god and i think people gather
and become dictators yeah which is not helpful yeah rather than gather then send yeah and
yeah come into rulership yeah and i hope that we've made the distinction between rulership and
dictatorship very clear there absolutely yeah rulership is not about domination and subjugation
and limiting it's actually a very releasing role it's a very releasing form of leadership yeah good
well sam do you want to release a prayer over them as we come to the end of this
half hour yeah i think you just need to lay hands on your head right now this is by the spirit it's
the renewing of your mind the washing of your mind and i pray for you right now and release to you
that your mind would be rewired with the rulership governance capabilities of the kingdom of god
and that sam 110 would be hardwired into your system and this season rule in the midst of your
enemies for then your troops will be willing on the day of battle may there be a ruling that releases
people that causes people to volunteer and that secures the future for generations that aren't
even formed or born yet bless you into that in jesus name amen amen well thank you for joining us
for this episode of what the prophets say we will see you or you will hear us yeah very soon
much love to you all bye thank you for listening to this episode of what the prophets say with me
emma stark if you would like to go deeper with us you would be very welcome to join our network
the global prophetic alliance you can find that at prophetic scots dot com where we have a comprehensive
training program to lead you into deeper realms of the spirit of god and in kinder if you feel a call
in the pool to deliverance ministry you can download my latest e-course which is a comprehensive
overview of getting people free from demonic oppression you'll find that at demon busting
dot com join us on these different platforms for more interaction with emma stark sam robertson
and the gpa team