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Hello, everyone.

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I know that we don't have many viewers yet, but you will come in.

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And just to start, we will be taking questions throughout to help us kind of navigate the

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discussion.

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I'm Leith Hury.

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I'm the founder of Spartan SC and the Global Recruiter Academy.

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And this is Mary Oakley who runs a business innovation group.

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She is my Irish fairy godmother in terms of business, in terms of, you know, just moral

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support and so on.

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And she, this group that she runs is filled with incredible people.

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Some of them have PhDs.

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Some of them are authors.

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Some of them are just, you know, interested in technology and artificial intelligence

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and they're from all over the world.

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Very fascinating people.

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And Mary, you know, she's, she put, she brought everyone together and she really understands

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people.

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And I think that that's going to be a really great added value to this discussion.

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So just to start at Mary, if you want to give your own, you know, self-introduction, you

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can go start from there.

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Oh my god, Leith.

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Well, first of all, thanks very much, thanks for asking me today.

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And you know, we've been pilots for so many years now and helped each other because the

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feeling has moved to a, yeah, that group was formed during COVID and it kept going from

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strength to strength.

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And I love every bit of it and every person that's in it.

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There's such interesting people in it.

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And we're all very close.

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And really what keeps, what keeps it going is the power of human connection and that

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we all got to know each other very well.

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And it's a comfortable, safe place.

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And that's what we need to be happy, you know.

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Our basic human needs need to be met.

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And today we'll be talking about happy workplaces.

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So that's where it all starts.

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Happy human.

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Absolutely.

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I have, I've often been fascinated with the connection of psychology, the labor market

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and economics.

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And you know, I also am one of the members on something called the rehumanization project

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with Bob McGannan, Dr. Steve Jeffs, Dave Burrs, Lucy D'Ossardo and Christina.

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And these are a really interesting group of people as well.

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And you know, we've taken a lot of time.

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We've met a lot, many times.

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And this is, this discussion in particular is built on a lot of the things that we've

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identified and in terms of conditioning.

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So whether it's psychology or going to the gym or whatever, I mean, if you go to the

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gym, you don't expect to lift weights really heavily from day one.

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And you've got to condition your body and get your body ready to lift heavier weights

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and to have more endurance and stuff.

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It doesn't happen just by sitting around.

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And the idea is to condition the way we treat each other in the workplace.

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The mindset that you bring into the discussion, whatever project you're working on with the

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team or whatever, you need to be in the right mindset.

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And one of the things that I noticed is that when you want to make the mindset better,

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when you want to condition the workforce to be happier, there's a lot of groundwork

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that you need to set up to really foster such an environment.

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And those include the organization structure itself.

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It includes the incentivization structures.

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It includes teaching managers and peers how to talk to each other.

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Because for example, giving feedback is a very sensitive topic.

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And if it's not done correctly in a timely manner and on a very specific approach, it

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can actually have more disastrous effects than actual beneficial effects.

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There's so many factors involving it, but basically what my point is is that you have

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to get the groundwork done right in order to start building the happy parts of the environment.

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Yes.

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And I think a lot of that starts with clarity from the beginning and definite rules.

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People have to know their boundaries to feel safe.

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So from the organization, if to keep changing and if there's too much change and the goal

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goes keeps moving and also lack of training.

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A lot of micro management is caused out of lack of proper training in the beginning.

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So it is, it's this conditioning from the very start.

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It's like bullying in the schools.

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If it's not hit on the head from the very first day, it festers the whole way through.

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And we're not talking about bullying here necessarily, but we're talking about people

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knowing where their place is, their role and also communication from management to staff.

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You know, that there is that respect between both.

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You know, one common thing that I, in terms of communication that I found quite interesting.

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By the way, anyone that's watching, I see we have Mr. Michael Leons here from Manchester

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and and calm Flynn, of course, it's always a pleasure to have you.

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You guys can always just ask any question, throw in any comments, add any points of view

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and I'll be happy to share that on the screen throughout.

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But what I was saying is in terms of the communication factor is that a lot of the times people are

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under the assumption that everyone has the same thought process and the same logic patterns

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and not that any logic pattern is more superior to another.

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But for me, for example, when I want to start a discussion, I like to set the stage.

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If you're asking me a binary question, I'm unlikely to give you a binary response.

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Because for me, the world is not black and white.

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I like to set the stage so that we have a common ground before I give you my binary response

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to your binary question.

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And a lot of people get really upset.

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It's like, why are you talking about all of this?

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Hold on, we'll get to the point, we'll get there.

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But in order for me to answer this, I know for a fact that you are missing information

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that needs to be set as a stage for the rest of the discussion.

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But I'm not going to put myself in a self-perjuring situation because you don't understand the

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entire story.

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And people like to jump to conclusions as well.

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And it's a very dangerous thing when you jump to conclusions.

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Yes.

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But we need to embrace diversity.

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We need to embrace the diverse thinkers.

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And we need to recognize what ideas, if we throw it out there, when people come together

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and diverse minds come together.

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So it's lovely to encourage thinking out loud and go the long way about it.

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I know time is often, it's very important.

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But there needs to be clear channels of communication where people are free to express themselves.

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Well, yeah, exactly.

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Time becomes a major issue in many different conversations.

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So I know for a fact there are two kinds of people when I was recruiting executives, they

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don't have time to sit and go through the resume line by line with you.

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And they will not appreciate if you try to do that either.

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And the other people are programmers.

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So programmers are really focused and they need to focus.

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And I've said this a thousand times.

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If they lose track of what they're working on, that could actually damage the entire

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program that they're trying to build.

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So they don't appreciate their time being wasted just as much as an executive would.

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And if you're not speaking their language, both as an executive or as a programmer, they

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don't want to sit in the interview with you.

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For them, it seems to be just taking valuable time from them.

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But on the contrary, if something is important to you, if something is actually damaging what

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you're trying to achieve, you're going to have to dedicate the time and the patience

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to listen to the person who has a potential solution.

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And if you're not willing to take the time to walk through the thought process properly

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without trying to jump the gun to the conclusion, then you're going to end up in a situation

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where, for example, a lot of companies like to increase the tax rate in order to make

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more money for the nation, which is fair enough when we understand that it's important to

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make more money as the nation.

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But it's like taking half a class in economics, understanding what margins are without understanding

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that things are elastic and inelastic.

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And there's a point where people will start to find cheaper, more dangerous, uncontrolled,

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unregulated solutions rather than pay more for something that they could find alternatives

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for.

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So you've created risk to the community because you wanted to take a shortcut by increasing

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the taxes.

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And it's the same for prices, for companies as well.

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So a lot of companies, they're ISO standard, everything is really well taken care of, really

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well regulated, audited, made sure that they have the quality assurance looking at all

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of their manufacturing process.

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And we know it's a safe product.

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But you can't just increase the prices just for the sake of increasing prices because

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what's going to happen is the sales volume is going to decrease.

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So my point here is that if you don't understand the full picture of economics or the full

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picture of a discussion in general, you can't jump the gun because you're going to end

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up shooting yourself in the foot.

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But getting back to the people then, you need the right team behind you to, you know, and

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we were talking about the programmers and we were talking, you know, we're getting back

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to the happy workplaces.

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Like how do you keep those people happy in the workplace to make sure you are making

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the money?

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean, there's so much that goes into this, the complexity of happiness in humans.

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Time to listen to their needs.

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If you don't meet their needs.

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Well, and one general sense is continuous happiness is unachievable, not as humans.

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We're not responsible for everyone's happiness anyway.

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But satisfaction should be the goal to achieve.

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Satisfaction and, you know, creating an environment where it's okay to be there for nine hours

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a day.

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When you look at happiness, happiness in psychology is like an elastic rubber band.

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You pull it in one direction and it's going to bounce back and it's going to go through

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that vibration, right?

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So no matter what you do, like today, if I go and increase all the employees' salaries

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by 20 or 200 euros or dollars, they're going to be happy for the, maybe for the next two

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or three weeks, but then it's going to become the norm.

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And once it becomes the norm, it goes back to just, you know, plateau.

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And so that's not necessarily a sustainable achievement.

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But one thing that we could do is learn how to communicate better and not put so much

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pressure on people.

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I understand that there's a need to like grow an organization and growth has become a major

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trend, especially with venture capital funding, which really puts pressure on growth.

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And I love venture capital.

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I find it to be one of the most fascinating industries in the world.

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So nothing against it.

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Actually, you know, it's incredible.

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I love what they do.

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I think it's really fascinating.

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However, when you put that amount of pressure on people to grow that fast, what you're

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demanding is inhuman.

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Yeah, because risk, now you're going to risk area where you're, you know, you're pushing

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people too far.

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And it is, it is inhuman.

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And what do you think can be done?

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And what do you think businesses can do from your perspective?

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You know, I always think, you know, measure twice and cut once, like, you know, just think

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about it, take it out first and how much you value.

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Well, some mistakes get made when you're desperate.

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Someone here is talking about micromanagement.

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Yeah.

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So how do you deal with a micromanager?

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I think that's all Omar Kourdi actually, or at least there's a share to Omar.

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Anyways, so in terms of dealing with the micromanager, the thing is, all they really want to know

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is to make sure that you're doing your job.

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And if you can create a system and agree on a system, like maybe have an Excel sheet with

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a shared folder and you just update the Excel sheet every now and then to where they can

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check in and look at it every now and then, it might take some relief away from that need

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to micromanage.

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Yes.

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As long as they can, if anytime they have a concern, they pull up that Excel sheet and

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they see that you're doing your work and you're checking all the boxes and they seek progress.

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That's all they really need to see and they need to see that you're diligent.

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So even in the Excel sheet, make sure that you're proving that you're being diligent

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as well.

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And that would slowly reduce the amount of micromanagement that's happening.

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Yes.

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And maybe they're confused about the rule.

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Maybe there is, and maybe there was some training, the mist or whatever, and that's why they

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have to be micromanaged.

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Yeah, true.

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I mean, one of the biggest problems I've always seen with companies with high attrition

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rates, which is turnover rates, is that when they hire a new employee, although there's

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a job description, the job description isn't matching what the manager is expecting from

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the employee.

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And then there becomes this grand ambiguity between the relationship between the manager

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and the employee.

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And everyone kind of feels lost, including the manager, by the way, that's toxic for

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the manager, not just for the employee as well.

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A large part of that lack of coordination comes from not running a proper skill gap

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analysis throughout the organization.

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And so if you launch a business today, you want to start with the vision and the mission

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and the values and look at your CSR strategy, the corporate and social, what was it, corporate

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and social responsibility.

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Yes.

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So when you align all of that, you see how you should be incentivizing every single person

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in the organization.

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And then you can build out actual like, oh, so in order to achieve these things, I'm going

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to need this department, this department, I'm going to need these tasks to be done by these

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people.

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And then everything becomes really clear as a structure.

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And then after that, you really do have to break down all the skill requirements for each

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job role that you're going to need, and then divide it fairly in a way where you're not

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going to be exhausting to stop.

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And then that's clear.

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And then now you have KPIs for every single person that joins your business.

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And KPIs are just another way of saying expectations.

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And that's all.

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And that's what usually the pressure is on for the KPIs.

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But I suppose the values need to be constantly adhered to.

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And companies, they have their values, but they don't actually lift them, some of them.

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And perhaps that is why I think you said one time that you're very entitled to asking an

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interview about the company's values.

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And people don't.

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But some people do look for a job in certain companies because of their values and tend

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to get disappointed when they start working.

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I know that a lot of companies lately are putting CSR and DE and I as the top list of

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their values.

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But in reality, that's to get investors.

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And sometimes it's important that we need to acknowledge that sometimes as much as we

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wish that the world was honest and transparent and really clear and everything, sometimes

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it's all about money.

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And when you sit with the manager, at least you're talking to a human or the HR or whatever.

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You're like, look, I understand that these are your values that are written down.

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But if I was to come here and work here today, are these the values that are reflected or

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not?

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Yes.

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And be like, you know, I'm not judging and I just really need to know for my own sake.

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Yes.

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Especially in this day of the ESG goals, you know, the environmental, social and governance

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goals that are to be met and DEI becoming very important.

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And that's what's important.

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It is important.

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There are actual financial reasons why you should integrate an actual DE and I strategy.

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Things that have a properly functional DE and I strategy within their organization that's

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aligned throughout their operation grow significantly faster and expand to new markets in like three

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times faster than other companies.

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And that's like, that's something you can literally look up.

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You can do the research on your own and you're going to find what I'm saying is completely

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true.

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But and the reason, for example, in some countries, it's not acceptable for me to do an interview

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call with someone who is a female.

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And you have to respect that cultural difference.

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You do.

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It doesn't mean that they're not qualified to do the job, but it means that there's a

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cultural difference that you need to acknowledge and you need to respect.

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But by having a woman on my team to interview those people means that I've increased my

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talent pool size.

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If you take that in terms of marketing and sales and comparatively, you've increased

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your market size in terms of sales capacity, in terms of understanding, how do I need to

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label this product to this group of people in a way that's not going to be offensive?

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It's not going to be culturally insensitive and you're going to actually really expand

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into new markets that way.

284
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Yeah, so it's no brainer.

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Yeah.

286
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But it doesn't always work and it doesn't, a lot of companies, they tick all those boxes,

287
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but they don't actually do it on the ground.

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And I think it might be down to the need for better the Annih training of managers, you

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know, understanding.

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But I know it is better now than it used to be.

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But the potential you can bring out people, you know, when they're working in the industry,

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in the right environment.

293
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Yeah.

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I know first hand, it's wonderful.

295
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So we have a comment from Mr. Michael Leon, who is one of my favorite people on the planet.

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Happy workplaces on the subject of topics like happiness and or diversity at work.

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My observation is that inside many organizations, there's a difference between what one sees

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looking up the organization leadership ladder versus what leaders want to see when they

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look down.

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And that's a real challenge.

301
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But the big question is how do good leaders turn this around and work differently?

302
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Oh, wow.

303
00:22:01,660 --> 00:22:03,660
That is a great question.

304
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Again, you know, I mean, that's all about communication and sharing perspective.

305
00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:13,420
But you know, I saw an Instagram post and I know that it's not like a great source of,

306
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you know, information or education.

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But there was an Instagram post where they said that most of the world views the world

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through perception.

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And the problem with perception is that you only see it through your eyes, through your

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story.

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And the people that really succeed in life and really have control over their life and

312
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the surroundings in their life, or people who continuously pursue perspective, multiple

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perspectives.

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For example, you don't read one newspaper and assume that you're getting solid facts.

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You read multiple ones in order to see where the common threads are, and then you put your

316
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own conclusion forward.

317
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I mean, even if it's subconscious in terms of the journalists that's writing the newspaper,

318
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there is always a bias as long as humans are involved.

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So sharing, trying to convince all of these people to look from perspective, look from

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the perspective of the hiring manager, of the line manager, of the ownership.

321
00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:30,500
So a lot of people when they, you know, this is another thing, Michael, you know, when

322
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:35,180
people join an organization coming from a bad experience with a previous employer is

323
00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:40,180
they bring that baggage on to the new employer and hold them accountable for what they used

324
00:23:40,180 --> 00:23:43,780
to experience, which is a defense mechanism.

325
00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:49,340
And it's, and which Mary told me earlier before we went live, it is a defense mechanism.

326
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Yeah, for us here.

327
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,380
Yeah, but at the same time, it's also something else.

328
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This is a employee mindset.

329
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:05,180
They're not thinking with a full perspective of being in a work environment.

330
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And people shouldn't be in an employee mindset.

331
00:24:07,980 --> 00:24:10,660
Yes, negotiate your basic salary.

332
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Yes, negotiate the hours that you're going to work.

333
00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:17,300
Do what you're doing, but do so with consideration of the owner.

334
00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:23,420
A lot of people don't realize that the owner is the last person to get paid.

335
00:24:23,420 --> 00:24:27,700
So first you have the suppliers that get paid.

336
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Then, and this is something that really people don't even think about.

337
00:24:30,420 --> 00:24:34,700
They just want to negotiate a higher salary unfairly to the owner and they refuse to acknowledge

338
00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:39,100
that it's unfairly to them because they feel that they were mistreated at a previous employer.

339
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:43,740
So the supplier gets paid first, the employees get paid second, the government gets paid

340
00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:50,100
third and whatever is left after all of that, if anything, goes to the owner.

341
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:54,580
So when you're over negotiating what's limited from that profit margin at the end of all

342
00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:58,980
of these expenses, you're actually taking away from the pocket of the owner.

343
00:24:58,980 --> 00:25:06,620
So I mean, or owners, so I mean, it could be like 20 owners that are involved or partnered

344
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in a business.

345
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And that profit that looks like, wow, one million is actually divided amongst 20 people.

346
00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:18,660
It's not that big of a number for the risk that they're taking.

347
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So that's one thing.

348
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So when an employee goes in with that in mind as an owner, I would be more willing to give

349
00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:35,420
them my margin because they're empathetic towards that to grow within my organization.

350
00:25:35,420 --> 00:25:36,700
I would take that risk on them.

351
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I would pay them more.

352
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:44,740
I suppose it all depends on whether you're working for a big money national, you know,

353
00:25:44,740 --> 00:25:53,180
or a smaller business or a family owned business or a group of individuals.

354
00:25:53,180 --> 00:26:00,700
The perspective changes, it depends on what kind of a company you're working for.

355
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:10,820
But you said in one of your posts earlier on, about the toxicity from a hierarchy to

356
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where the higher managers don't empathize enough or vice versa.

357
00:26:18,780 --> 00:26:21,420
There's too much of a division.

358
00:26:21,420 --> 00:26:26,460
Yeah, and this was actually something that was discussed in the re-humanization project.

359
00:26:26,460 --> 00:26:27,460
That wasn't my idea.

360
00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:31,340
I think that was from someone else.

361
00:26:31,340 --> 00:26:35,220
But they made a very good point when we were in one of those private meetings kind of identify

362
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the pillars of toxicity.

363
00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:46,420
And what it was is that when you only incentivize a big, beautiful salary, a comfortable paycheck,

364
00:26:46,420 --> 00:26:49,860
it's normally only for vertical growth.

365
00:26:49,860 --> 00:26:54,820
But if you want to look at horizontal growth, like becoming a subject matter expert, a leader

366
00:26:54,820 --> 00:27:03,300
within a specific set of tasks, expert expertise, advisory kind of thing, we're not incentivizing

367
00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:05,340
those people to grow horizontally.

368
00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:11,900
We're only incentivizing them to grow vertically, which means now instead of having people focus

369
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:19,380
on tasks, you're having everyone trying to climb on top of each other at cost of whoever

370
00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:25,460
in order to reach the top of the ladder and get into that high level managerial role.

371
00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:27,300
And that's too competitive.

372
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:29,380
That's not a healthy competition.

373
00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:34,900
And trust is lost in this process because they're all against each other instead of together

374
00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:38,100
as a team.

375
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,660
And trust is a big thing in the workplace.

376
00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:41,660
What about trust?

377
00:27:41,660 --> 00:27:46,380
Tell us more about the re-humanization project actually, Leit.

378
00:27:46,380 --> 00:27:51,940
What other things come up in the pillars of toxicity?

379
00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:55,260
Some of the pillars of toxicity is communication.

380
00:27:55,260 --> 00:28:01,380
We discuss incentive misalignment with vision and mission.

381
00:28:01,380 --> 00:28:05,660
Sometimes in organizations, you'll see that the salespeople are incentivized on sales

382
00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:11,140
like revenue, which is really far up on the financial statements.

383
00:28:11,140 --> 00:28:13,460
It's still not covering all the expenses.

384
00:28:13,460 --> 00:28:17,620
And then you'll see more senior people being incentivized on profit margin.

385
00:28:17,620 --> 00:28:21,900
So what you're going to have now is a disalignment in the organization where the salespeople

386
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:29,420
will get the sales, meet their target at whatever cost just to get that commission.

387
00:28:29,420 --> 00:28:36,140
And then you'll have managers, CEOs, COOs incentivized on end of your profit.

388
00:28:36,140 --> 00:28:42,500
So now what you have is you have the C level arguing with the rest of the staff throughout

389
00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:44,060
the organization.

390
00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:46,180
Why are you being so irresponsible?

391
00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:47,180
Why are you doing whatever?

392
00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:55,460
Well, I mean, when you have a misalignment on incentives, that's what's going to happen.

393
00:28:55,460 --> 00:28:59,700
And I understand that people want to get their commission check as soon as possible, which

394
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:00,700
means revenue.

395
00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:06,980
But at the same time, is that really the kind of attitude and incentive you want to be giving

396
00:29:06,980 --> 00:29:07,980
people?

397
00:29:07,980 --> 00:29:13,020
As an owner, I want to walk away from my business one day and not have to look back every five

398
00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:15,740
minutes and I want to go on a vacation.

399
00:29:15,740 --> 00:29:18,500
I don't want to have to deal with this.

400
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:22,380
I want to be able to know that everyone in the organization is looking to maximize the

401
00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:30,460
profit margin because that's where the commission is coming out for everyone, including ownership.

402
00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:38,220
But you don't want to leave burnt out and absolutely disgruntled and sick at that stage

403
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:46,340
of your life either from this lack of effective communication in the company.

404
00:29:46,340 --> 00:29:53,180
That's a killer for the owner, for the C suite, for the entry level.

405
00:29:53,180 --> 00:29:54,660
It's like, why am I always being yelled at?

406
00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:56,500
I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.

407
00:29:56,500 --> 00:30:06,020
You're under, at the higher levels, loneliness and just pure pressure.

408
00:30:06,020 --> 00:30:10,260
You know, it's causing a lot of other problems.

409
00:30:10,260 --> 00:30:14,780
I read some research article and actually I'll bring this question up because it's relevant.

410
00:30:14,780 --> 00:30:21,500
So, Finola, nice to see you here.

411
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:25,500
So how do you view managers and leaders within an organization?

412
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:35,620
Yeah, so first and foremost, they're human and they make mistakes, even if they don't

413
00:30:35,620 --> 00:30:37,500
want to admit it.

414
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:43,980
So they do make mistakes, whether it's a communication mistake, numerical error, God knows what,

415
00:30:43,980 --> 00:30:49,700
and people need to just kind of give the benefit of the doubt to each other a little bit, give

416
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:52,940
a little bit of give and take here.

417
00:30:52,940 --> 00:31:01,740
And unfortunately, you always see this kind of like employees versus leadership, always,

418
00:31:01,740 --> 00:31:04,300
always in most organizations.

419
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:10,020
And in reality, everyone just wants to achieve the goal.

420
00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:11,020
That's it.

421
00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:12,820
And there is no real division.

422
00:31:12,820 --> 00:31:21,500
I mean, for me, for example, one thing that I always tried my best, wherever I worked,

423
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:28,340
was to get in alignment and focus on the project at the end.

424
00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:36,940
And one thing was, so one example I had is I briefly worked at Devo team and I really

425
00:31:36,940 --> 00:31:39,980
loved the staff there.

426
00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:40,980
Beautiful people.

427
00:31:40,980 --> 00:31:45,340
It's a French multinational that specializes in digital transformation.

428
00:31:45,340 --> 00:31:47,340
I mean, I really believe in their mission.

429
00:31:47,340 --> 00:31:48,340
I still do.

430
00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:50,580
I think they're fantastic.

431
00:31:50,580 --> 00:31:53,700
But the recruiters were a little bit, you know, back and forth.

432
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:55,740
There's just a little bit of stuff.

433
00:31:55,740 --> 00:32:03,180
One of the first things that I did was I wrote the target for recruitment, how many people

434
00:32:03,180 --> 00:32:05,300
we have to recruit by the end of the year.

435
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:07,700
And it was a big number.

436
00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:14,660
And I didn't have to do much else after that because once you put the big challenge in

437
00:32:14,660 --> 00:32:19,860
front of people that's bigger than anyone, bigger than everyone, what happens is that

438
00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:25,860
by nature people will come together and they will start to work towards that mission on

439
00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:26,860
their own.

440
00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:28,860
And then it just takes some fine tuning.

441
00:32:28,860 --> 00:32:33,100
But getting people aligned starts with the objective.

442
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:35,620
It doesn't start with anything else.

443
00:32:35,620 --> 00:32:40,300
And you know, honestly, I was so proud of that team by the time I left, I wasn't there for

444
00:32:40,300 --> 00:32:41,420
that long.

445
00:32:41,420 --> 00:32:46,700
But the team were achieving 124% of the weekly target on average.

446
00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:54,740
I mean, you know, like what amazing people to like come together that way and to really

447
00:32:54,740 --> 00:32:59,540
get so many vacancies closed.

448
00:32:59,540 --> 00:33:05,180
And the, you know, the amount of communication you would see directly with their directors

449
00:33:05,180 --> 00:33:07,980
or with the partners or whatever.

450
00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:12,100
And just they would start to just gather all this information.

451
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:14,220
And honestly, there wasn't much work for me to do.

452
00:33:14,220 --> 00:33:18,940
So at some point, you know, let them do it on their own.

453
00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:19,940
They're good.

454
00:33:19,940 --> 00:33:20,940
They're set.

455
00:33:20,940 --> 00:33:21,940
Yes, that's what trust is.

456
00:33:21,940 --> 00:33:22,940
I trust them to do it.

457
00:33:22,940 --> 00:33:23,940
Yeah.

458
00:33:23,940 --> 00:33:30,420
You know, you know, I'm an Irish person, so we love telling stories.

459
00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:33,020
And Lace was actually in Jordan.

460
00:33:33,020 --> 00:33:41,580
But I just brought me back to when I was 18 years old, I got a summer job in the waybridge

461
00:33:41,580 --> 00:33:46,860
of a creamery, you know, a milk processing plant.

462
00:33:46,860 --> 00:33:49,380
And it was actually a great place to work.

463
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:50,380
I loved it.

464
00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:52,220
I loved that summer I spent there.

465
00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:55,740
And I met great friends and they're still my friends to this day.

466
00:33:55,740 --> 00:34:00,740
But what I did notice was the managers, the lab technicians, the lorry drivers, they were

467
00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:05,940
all friends and there was a, there was great communication between them all.

468
00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:11,260
But recently I was having coffee in a hotel in the local hotel.

469
00:34:11,260 --> 00:34:15,100
Now, you know, it's a long time ago since I was 18.

470
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:19,380
So it's a long time ago since they were all there working.

471
00:34:19,380 --> 00:34:24,500
And one by one, myself and my friends were having coffee in the foyer.

472
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:27,620
And one by one, they all started to come in.

473
00:34:27,620 --> 00:34:32,540
And I was telling my friends, you know, I said, I can't believe this.

474
00:34:32,540 --> 00:34:36,860
I said, when I was 18, I worked, that was the manager, the waybridge.

475
00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:39,980
And then that was the manager of the whole co-op.

476
00:34:39,980 --> 00:34:43,900
And that was these two guys used to go out to the farms to collect milk.

477
00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:45,420
And here's all the lorry drivers.

478
00:34:45,420 --> 00:34:50,980
They all meet once a month, still, all of them.

479
00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:55,820
And I just thought that is exactly how work, a workplace should be.

480
00:34:55,820 --> 00:35:01,820
And it all in their retirement, they meet once a month and they all have a chat and a cup

481
00:35:01,820 --> 00:35:02,820
of tea and a spoon.

482
00:35:02,820 --> 00:35:08,620
And I just thought it was the loveliest thing, the secretary's door all there.

483
00:35:08,620 --> 00:35:12,780
And I just thought it was the most half-warming thing I could see.

484
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:17,420
And it was a great company culture back then.

485
00:35:17,420 --> 00:35:22,100
I don't know what it's like nowadays, the same organization.

486
00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:33,580
But what I was saying is that is, you know, it was such a great thing to see how they

487
00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:34,580
all stayed together.

488
00:35:34,580 --> 00:35:41,420
And it was mutual respect between all the layers of management and we're all there together.

489
00:35:41,420 --> 00:35:47,340
So if other workplaces, if that could be achieved.

490
00:35:47,340 --> 00:35:51,900
I mean, it's not easy to achieve.

491
00:35:51,900 --> 00:36:00,540
It's not easy to get that level of connectiveness within a team.

492
00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:07,180
A lot of times you have people that are more susceptible towards biases.

493
00:36:07,180 --> 00:36:12,780
So when I, you know, if I see someone that looks similar to you, what that would be called

494
00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:14,380
is a halo effect.

495
00:36:14,380 --> 00:36:18,300
So because I've always had a good experience with you, I'm going to assume that this person

496
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:22,940
has the same motives and the same character.

497
00:36:22,940 --> 00:36:28,340
And I might be significantly flawed in that thinking and then I would be disappointed.

498
00:36:28,340 --> 00:36:34,300
But so like, even if someone becomes in super innocent, just ready to work and get the work

499
00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:38,540
done, someone might have something against them just because of the way they look.

500
00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:39,540
Yes.

501
00:36:39,540 --> 00:36:44,580
And before you don't think it's a good idea to put a photo on a CV.

502
00:36:44,580 --> 00:36:46,780
What's it you just sent out?

503
00:36:46,780 --> 00:36:52,420
Yes, I never think it's a good idea to put your, no matter if you're good looking, you

504
00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:57,140
have pearl white teeth, you look like a real estate salesperson with the white teeth and

505
00:36:57,140 --> 00:37:00,580
the, you know, just brand new, a look.

506
00:37:00,580 --> 00:37:05,900
It doesn't matter, honestly, because, you know, you can have bad experiences with someone

507
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:12,220
who's super good looking and you can have good experiences with someone who's average.

508
00:37:12,220 --> 00:37:17,220
And it doesn't matter at all what you look at.

509
00:37:17,220 --> 00:37:22,420
You want to be hired based on merit, based on your results, based on capabilities.

510
00:37:22,420 --> 00:37:28,020
And that's in the interest of the employer and the employee and candidates and everyone.

511
00:37:28,020 --> 00:37:29,020
Yes.

512
00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:32,300
And the reason for that, sorry, it's a long thread.

513
00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:33,780
I have so much in my head.

514
00:37:33,780 --> 00:37:38,340
It's definitely so wonderful, Leighton.

515
00:37:38,340 --> 00:37:40,900
It's like chaos in here.

516
00:37:40,900 --> 00:37:44,540
I'm all alone in this box with full of information.

517
00:37:44,540 --> 00:37:52,060
So, so what happens is if you get a job based on the way you look, not based on merit, there's

518
00:37:52,060 --> 00:37:57,380
going to be a lot of arguments once you start the job and arguments why you're not achieving

519
00:37:57,380 --> 00:37:59,820
the target, why you're not whatever.

520
00:37:59,820 --> 00:38:05,020
And, and again, the hiring manager is going to assume he did his due diligence because

521
00:38:05,020 --> 00:38:06,020
it's subconscious.

522
00:38:06,020 --> 00:38:08,300
You don't make bias decisions consciously.

523
00:38:08,300 --> 00:38:14,780
But it's the resume to CV, not just to get the interview and then you, you meet the person.

524
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:15,780
Right.

525
00:38:15,780 --> 00:38:16,780
But that sets the tone.

526
00:38:16,780 --> 00:38:20,980
That sets the initial expectation from the employer.

527
00:38:20,980 --> 00:38:23,420
So you don't want to lie on your resume.

528
00:38:23,420 --> 00:38:29,740
You just want to be able to present yourself as accurately as possible with the real strengths

529
00:38:29,740 --> 00:38:32,140
that you have through and through.

530
00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:33,140
Yeah.

531
00:38:33,140 --> 00:38:35,580
And it's not easy to represent yourself.

532
00:38:35,580 --> 00:38:42,020
I mean, how can you possibly represent all that is a human, even if you're a fresh graduate,

533
00:38:42,020 --> 00:38:45,100
23 years of life?

534
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:49,380
How do you limit it to one page resume?

535
00:38:49,380 --> 00:38:55,700
Realistically, and then what kind of recruiter is going to read every single line with a

536
00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:57,500
full attention span?

537
00:38:57,500 --> 00:38:58,500
Yes.

538
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:01,700
You know, no one, no one.

539
00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:07,180
They look at 200, 300 resumes per job post.

540
00:39:07,180 --> 00:39:11,940
But you think there's too much emphasis on their skills rather on their hard skills rather

541
00:39:11,940 --> 00:39:15,100
than their soft skills and that they're hiring.

542
00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:19,620
Yes, you need the technical, you know, you need the technical skills.

543
00:39:19,620 --> 00:39:29,740
But do you think that's overriding and getting the wrong people into the, into that job?

544
00:39:29,740 --> 00:39:32,140
Because they're so skilled at what to do.

545
00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:34,740
Well, what I learned is that most of the...

546
00:39:34,740 --> 00:39:35,740
To do a toxic workplace.

547
00:39:35,740 --> 00:39:42,300
So a lot of small companies aren't fully aware of the importance of a proper recruitment

548
00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:44,300
process.

549
00:39:44,300 --> 00:39:49,020
A proper recruitment process starts with the hard skills.

550
00:39:49,020 --> 00:39:53,820
And that's how we identify the basics of what we need as a human being for this job role

551
00:39:53,820 --> 00:40:00,780
to be filled and the tasks for that job role to be properly executed.

552
00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:09,060
And then you move on to psychometric evaluations, which could be the big five, the disc, or

553
00:40:09,060 --> 00:40:12,300
the simple version, which is Myers-Briggs or Carl Jung.

554
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:16,300
Which, by the way, has a 50% inaccuracy rate.

555
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:19,300
So I wouldn't take it literally.

556
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:22,740
And if you do take the big five and you believe that that suits you really well and you just

557
00:40:22,740 --> 00:40:28,700
want to verify, test it cross-reference with the big five.

558
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:32,700
And if a lot of the descriptions match up and align with what you got as a result on

559
00:40:32,700 --> 00:40:39,380
the 16 personalities, then you're more solidified in who you are.

560
00:40:39,380 --> 00:40:46,140
So once you've gotten that personality, that behavior kind of testing done, they should

561
00:40:46,140 --> 00:40:51,380
be able to align it with the behavior, the vision, the values of the organization as

562
00:40:51,380 --> 00:40:56,340
well to make sure that it's a right hire, not just for them, but for you as well as a

563
00:40:56,340 --> 00:40:58,820
candidate.

564
00:40:58,820 --> 00:41:06,220
After that, you go into technical interviews to eliminate the remaining five or 10 candidates.

565
00:41:06,220 --> 00:41:09,740
And that technical interview is going to be very intense.

566
00:41:09,740 --> 00:41:11,820
Sometimes they ask for a case study.

567
00:41:11,820 --> 00:41:17,980
If it's, I know normally I had one client that did a case study and it was a very difficult

568
00:41:17,980 --> 00:41:18,980
case study.

569
00:41:18,980 --> 00:41:25,580
But the pay was worth doing the case study, to be fair.

570
00:41:25,580 --> 00:41:32,900
So this case study probably took each of the candidates three to five hours to prep and

571
00:41:32,900 --> 00:41:34,060
present.

572
00:41:34,060 --> 00:41:38,620
And that's a lot of time for a job that you might not get.

573
00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:42,700
But at the same time, everyone needs to do cost benefit analysis.

574
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:47,900
So if you're willing to take this risk, know that the benefit in return is going to be

575
00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:51,700
a nice paycheck every month.

576
00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:53,960
That's job security, that's financial security.

577
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,620
So why not do the case study?

578
00:41:57,620 --> 00:41:58,620
Why wouldn't you?

579
00:41:58,620 --> 00:42:04,020
I mean, if this is your expertise to do these things, doing this case study is just a great

580
00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:05,020
thing.

581
00:42:05,020 --> 00:42:06,820
It's just another day of your professional career.

582
00:42:06,820 --> 00:42:12,260
I mean, it's not that much extra effort.

583
00:42:12,260 --> 00:42:17,140
So yeah, there's lots of factors that you would find the right candidate.

584
00:42:17,140 --> 00:42:24,980
But smaller organizations that don't have the full resources of a recruitment firm or

585
00:42:24,980 --> 00:42:32,100
of a multinational, they unfortunately have to rely more on intuition, on judgment from

586
00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:40,500
experience and on skills that are written on the resume.

587
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:44,580
So yeah, I mean, I guess I hope that answers that question.

588
00:42:44,580 --> 00:42:47,980
And what about the intuition that you're talking about?

589
00:42:47,980 --> 00:42:50,260
Because that's what I'm interested in.

590
00:42:50,260 --> 00:42:57,700
And why are so, you know, I don't want stereotype doctors, but a lot of doctors like don't have

591
00:42:57,700 --> 00:42:59,700
good bedside manners.

592
00:42:59,700 --> 00:43:03,900
You know, they're actually shouldn't be near a human being, you know, to me be good at

593
00:43:03,900 --> 00:43:04,900
their technical skills.

594
00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:10,700
Are we talking about psychologists and psychiatrists or are we talking about medical doctors?

595
00:43:10,700 --> 00:43:13,460
A lot of medical doctors.

596
00:43:13,460 --> 00:43:19,380
You know, in the past, you know, it can be common, but it goes across the board.

597
00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:25,420
Like when you hire engineers or whatever, you do hire them in the hope that they will

598
00:43:25,420 --> 00:43:29,540
rise the ranks of the managers and then they're managing people.

599
00:43:29,540 --> 00:43:35,180
So you have to look at the bigger picture, you know, how are they with, you know, they're

600
00:43:35,180 --> 00:43:43,020
good at their job and they're good as, you know, presenting and everything.

601
00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:47,540
But doesn't necessarily mean they'll be good at leading the team.

602
00:43:47,540 --> 00:43:48,540
Yeah.

603
00:43:48,540 --> 00:43:57,180
Well, I mean, for me, in most cases, I don't care how the doctor treats me as long as I

604
00:43:57,180 --> 00:44:00,460
get cured.

605
00:44:00,460 --> 00:44:07,060
But if it comes down to like a child, the pediatrician should know how to talk to a child.

606
00:44:07,060 --> 00:44:16,260
If it's someone with a mental disorder or some sort of mental limitation, I don't know

607
00:44:16,260 --> 00:44:19,620
what the political correct word is for this anymore.

608
00:44:19,620 --> 00:44:22,660
I've lost track.

609
00:44:22,660 --> 00:44:28,020
But honestly, the psychologists and the psychiatrists need to have a level of sensitivity and control

610
00:44:28,020 --> 00:44:32,820
on their other behavioral reactions to the clients in front of them in order not to offend

611
00:44:32,820 --> 00:44:38,740
them and to make sure that they come back and continue the care that they need.

612
00:44:38,740 --> 00:44:42,140
So yeah, I agree with you in some cases on that.

613
00:44:42,140 --> 00:44:47,300
In terms of engineers, in terms of dealing with anyone as a manager, as a, we're all

614
00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:49,300
human.

615
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:59,140
And a big problem is that when ego takes place or takes priority over the goals and the mission,

616
00:44:59,140 --> 00:45:01,380
that's when we lose humanity.

617
00:45:01,380 --> 00:45:03,540
Yes.

618
00:45:03,540 --> 00:45:11,340
That's when you start to see toxicity arise from the top levels.

619
00:45:11,340 --> 00:45:12,660
It happens.

620
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:13,660
It happens.

621
00:45:13,660 --> 00:45:18,340
And I think that's one of those things that I think will always kind of happen.

622
00:45:18,340 --> 00:45:26,220
And I think a lot of it has to do with how someone has developed into an adult, maybe

623
00:45:26,220 --> 00:45:30,300
past trauma that they dealt with.

624
00:45:30,300 --> 00:45:38,060
We don't know how, not everyone reacts to the same traumatic event in the same way.

625
00:45:38,060 --> 00:45:40,660
You know, this is another reference to Instagram.

626
00:45:40,660 --> 00:45:42,340
I love reels on Instagram.

627
00:45:42,340 --> 00:45:45,140
I find them extremely entertaining.

628
00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:51,020
On Instagram, there was, sorry, this was actually in Batman.

629
00:45:51,020 --> 00:45:52,660
It's a reference to Batman.

630
00:45:52,660 --> 00:45:59,460
And they were saying that what's the difference between a villain and a hero?

631
00:45:59,460 --> 00:46:04,180
So they normally have the same exact backstory.

632
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:06,260
On planet was destroyed.

633
00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:08,340
They lost their parents.

634
00:46:08,340 --> 00:46:09,860
God knows what.

635
00:46:09,860 --> 00:46:13,260
But it's not about their backstory that makes them the villain.

636
00:46:13,260 --> 00:46:17,460
It's how they reacted and started to look at the world.

637
00:46:17,460 --> 00:46:19,700
You know, so I don't know.

638
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:21,660
One is really a villain in reality.

639
00:46:21,660 --> 00:46:23,980
Everyone has their own reasons for doing whatever they're doing.

640
00:46:23,980 --> 00:46:26,980
That's what they do.

641
00:46:26,980 --> 00:46:27,980
Yeah.

642
00:46:27,980 --> 00:46:30,740
And I think that's that's interesting.

643
00:46:30,740 --> 00:46:34,100
What they make out of this.

644
00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:36,220
Yeah.

645
00:46:36,220 --> 00:46:38,300
We have calm flint.

646
00:46:38,300 --> 00:46:43,220
When thinking about bedside manner, the real challenge is understanding the bedside manner

647
00:46:43,220 --> 00:46:47,420
for each group or even individual for a manager.

648
00:46:47,420 --> 00:46:50,860
You have to manage Gen Z very different to Gen X.

649
00:46:50,860 --> 00:46:51,860
Absolutely.

650
00:46:51,860 --> 00:46:52,860
Yes.

651
00:46:52,860 --> 00:46:53,860
Yes.

652
00:46:53,860 --> 00:46:59,940
But but the reason for this and I'm convinced with this is the difference between Gen Z and

653
00:46:59,940 --> 00:47:05,100
Gen X is economic stability.

654
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:13,420
And when, you know, so so the current the newest generation to the workforce needs to

655
00:47:13,420 --> 00:47:19,100
start looking at the world more based on a gig economy.

656
00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:20,340
I got to take this gig.

657
00:47:20,340 --> 00:47:21,420
I got to take this gig.

658
00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:29,140
I got to take this gig in order to close my cost of living.

659
00:47:29,140 --> 00:47:34,660
When you have companies that offer a, you know, if you're lucky, a 5% annual bonus to

660
00:47:34,660 --> 00:47:44,740
your basic salary and you have inflation rising today between 30 and 15% globally.

661
00:47:44,740 --> 00:47:50,660
What you're incentivizing, because on the other hand, if I was to jump jobs and go to

662
00:47:50,660 --> 00:47:55,580
a competitor, I would get a 20% increase like that.

663
00:47:55,580 --> 00:48:02,060
So you're not incentivizing that long term career path like our parents have because

664
00:48:02,060 --> 00:48:06,540
they would go get a job and they would stay there until they get their 401k and then they

665
00:48:06,540 --> 00:48:07,540
would retire.

666
00:48:07,540 --> 00:48:14,860
But when inflation is growing significantly faster than what, you know, my cost of living,

667
00:48:14,860 --> 00:48:17,380
I'm going to have to jump jobs.

668
00:48:17,380 --> 00:48:18,380
Yeah.

669
00:48:18,380 --> 00:48:22,820
And that's the sad truth of it though.

670
00:48:22,820 --> 00:48:29,140
And the pressure is on the loss from working from home now, which creates a lot more loss

671
00:48:29,140 --> 00:48:35,340
from our delighted to be working from home, but it also creates new problems in isolation

672
00:48:35,340 --> 00:48:40,220
and workplace management.

673
00:48:40,220 --> 00:48:43,260
I naturally love working alone, whether it's online or not.

674
00:48:43,260 --> 00:48:45,860
I like to research.

675
00:48:45,860 --> 00:48:49,380
That's honestly my, I love reading books.

676
00:48:49,380 --> 00:48:52,100
I love looking into new information.

677
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:54,740
I like looking at statistics.

678
00:48:54,740 --> 00:48:58,300
For me, if I could just do that all day and get paid for that, that's what I'm going to

679
00:48:58,300 --> 00:48:59,300
be doing.

680
00:48:59,300 --> 00:49:02,140
Unfortunately, that's not the case.

681
00:49:02,140 --> 00:49:04,780
You have to use a mix of skills in order to make money these days.

682
00:49:04,780 --> 00:49:16,060
But there are under a lot more pressure than former generations because of this ever changing,

683
00:49:16,060 --> 00:49:25,580
like changing faster than ever before work situation.

684
00:49:25,580 --> 00:49:27,820
And also the housing crisis adds to it.

685
00:49:27,820 --> 00:49:29,260
So there is a lot of pressure.

686
00:49:29,260 --> 00:49:30,260
How can they be supported?

687
00:49:30,260 --> 00:49:34,660
I think this is an issue far behind.

688
00:49:34,660 --> 00:49:38,020
I'm not a real estate expert.

689
00:49:38,020 --> 00:49:40,460
But I do know what happened in the U S with COVID.

690
00:49:40,460 --> 00:49:45,020
So with COVID, all these companies started to work remotely all of a sudden and it lasted

691
00:49:45,020 --> 00:49:51,420
long enough for people to relocate to more cost effective living, maybe near to their

692
00:49:51,420 --> 00:49:59,260
parents home, maybe out on the outskirts of a city in order to cut costs.

693
00:49:59,260 --> 00:50:05,300
And they, and you know, when they did prove that productivity was not effective, but yet

694
00:50:05,300 --> 00:50:08,980
they were asked to come back to the office full time.

695
00:50:08,980 --> 00:50:14,820
Well now you had people that were able to be near their parents and they realize what

696
00:50:14,820 --> 00:50:16,820
they were missing.

697
00:50:16,820 --> 00:50:21,900
You have people that are saving significant amount of money and have a better quality

698
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:26,580
of life and still doing the same job.

699
00:50:26,580 --> 00:50:28,260
And they're not willing to sacrifice that.

700
00:50:28,260 --> 00:50:33,380
So that comes into, like you said last time we talked, this is work life balance now.

701
00:50:33,380 --> 00:50:39,660
And we become more conscious of it because of COVID.

702
00:50:39,660 --> 00:50:43,420
So yeah, we need to adapt to that as well.

703
00:50:43,420 --> 00:50:48,740
So there's a lot of adapting to be done and a lot of different generations who have totally

704
00:50:48,740 --> 00:50:53,580
different mindsets flashing.

705
00:50:53,580 --> 00:50:59,100
So there is a lot to take on for managers.

706
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:05,940
Another source of depression, by the way, a depression, lack of life satisfaction is

707
00:51:05,940 --> 00:51:06,940
addiction.

708
00:51:06,940 --> 00:51:09,340
And I'm not talking about drugs.

709
00:51:09,340 --> 00:51:11,540
I'm not talking about drugs.

710
00:51:11,540 --> 00:51:17,700
The other day, me and my wife were sitting down and we were watching TV, but neither

711
00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:18,980
of us were watching TV.

712
00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:23,300
We were both on our phones flipping through social media.

713
00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:27,060
And all of a sudden we both stopped randomly, looked at each other and said, what are we

714
00:51:27,060 --> 00:51:28,060
doing?

715
00:51:28,060 --> 00:51:29,980
Why are we looking at our phones?

716
00:51:29,980 --> 00:51:34,620
We're not even talking, we're not even watching the movie.

717
00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:36,100
And this creates a disconnect.

718
00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:38,660
It's a massive disconnect.

719
00:51:38,660 --> 00:51:42,460
We're not participating on the movie and we're not engaging with each other.

720
00:51:42,460 --> 00:51:43,460
So what's happening?

721
00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:47,860
We may as well be in two separate rooms.

722
00:51:47,860 --> 00:51:50,900
And imagine that in a work environment now.

723
00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:55,060
So online, I have all this technology in front of me.

724
00:51:55,060 --> 00:52:00,180
It's extremely difficult for me right now in this moment to keep focused on this conversation

725
00:52:00,180 --> 00:52:04,540
because I have this light here that's kind of in my face.

726
00:52:04,540 --> 00:52:07,220
I have this camera in the middle of the screen to make sure that everyone feels like I'm

727
00:52:07,220 --> 00:52:09,140
looking at them and I'm engaging with them.

728
00:52:09,140 --> 00:52:13,220
I have my other laptop screen down here to make sure that I can see the comments coming

729
00:52:13,220 --> 00:52:14,220
through.

730
00:52:14,220 --> 00:52:15,220
It's exhausting.

731
00:52:15,220 --> 00:52:20,300
It's a lot of work and it's hard to keep focus and it takes a significant amount of

732
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:21,300
mental effort.

733
00:52:21,300 --> 00:52:24,980
It's an always on kind of thing.

734
00:52:24,980 --> 00:52:26,140
You're always on.

735
00:52:26,140 --> 00:52:28,460
Your phone is always beside you.

736
00:52:28,460 --> 00:52:34,340
And I see people walking across the road on their phone, texting.

737
00:52:34,340 --> 00:52:36,340
You see them in the car.

738
00:52:36,340 --> 00:52:37,340
Yeah.

739
00:52:37,340 --> 00:52:43,780
But it is, we're being programmed I suppose.

740
00:52:43,780 --> 00:52:49,180
I suppose there's this growing need for stimulation.

741
00:52:49,180 --> 00:52:52,860
We have instant gratification there all the time.

742
00:52:52,860 --> 00:52:58,620
We can look up anything we want at any time.

743
00:52:58,620 --> 00:53:01,380
So more notifications.

744
00:53:01,380 --> 00:53:02,540
Notifications.

745
00:53:02,540 --> 00:53:08,540
I always see people in meetings today and I'm talking about face to face meetings.

746
00:53:08,540 --> 00:53:11,460
In face to face meetings, there's so many notifications.

747
00:53:11,460 --> 00:53:17,660
I'm sorry, like if you come here and you do this and you do not disturb, that's all you

748
00:53:17,660 --> 00:53:19,780
need to swipe and click that button.

749
00:53:19,780 --> 00:53:23,380
And all of a sudden you can be fully engaged in the conversation.

750
00:53:23,380 --> 00:53:24,700
But people don't even do that.

751
00:53:24,700 --> 00:53:26,820
It's a very basic two step process.

752
00:53:26,820 --> 00:53:27,820
That's it.

753
00:53:27,820 --> 00:53:28,820
That's all you got to do.

754
00:53:28,820 --> 00:53:32,100
And they'll keep getting notifications and keep getting distracted and keep getting phone

755
00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:37,820
calls in the middle of a meeting, which can be taken as very insulting if the other person

756
00:53:37,820 --> 00:53:42,700
is making a conscious effort to do what I just said.

757
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:44,100
I understand that life is busy.

758
00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:45,100
It's so fast paced.

759
00:53:45,100 --> 00:53:48,020
I know that people get upset with me when I don't respond to a WhatsApp message within

760
00:53:48,020 --> 00:53:50,020
five to 10 minutes.

761
00:53:50,020 --> 00:53:53,940
And because of that, I gave up.

762
00:53:53,940 --> 00:53:57,460
Sometimes I don't even respond for three, four days.

763
00:53:57,460 --> 00:54:01,740
Like whatever, you're going to be upset no matter what.

764
00:54:01,740 --> 00:54:07,220
So it's no wonder people are suffering from mental health problems.

765
00:54:07,220 --> 00:54:10,340
And Finola probably agree with us.

766
00:54:10,340 --> 00:54:16,940
Finola from development officer for mental health Ireland is here.

767
00:54:16,940 --> 00:54:22,460
You know, it is a serious problem nowadays.

768
00:54:22,460 --> 00:54:24,140
And we're all guilty of it.

769
00:54:24,140 --> 00:54:26,740
We're all taken in by it.

770
00:54:26,740 --> 00:54:32,580
Because the quality of our lives is, you know, diminishing.

771
00:54:32,580 --> 00:54:35,180
And I don't know.

772
00:54:35,180 --> 00:54:37,020
And that spills into the workplace.

773
00:54:37,020 --> 00:54:44,900
It spills into tiredness and spills into, you know, lack of exercise and doing the things

774
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:46,780
we should be doing.

775
00:54:46,780 --> 00:54:50,620
As you pointed out when you were sitting on the couch, you know, supposed to be watching

776
00:54:50,620 --> 00:54:54,060
TV and bonding.

777
00:54:54,060 --> 00:54:55,460
It has the opposite.

778
00:54:55,460 --> 00:54:59,140
We're getting more singular, aren't we?

779
00:54:59,140 --> 00:55:00,660
We're getting more distracted.

780
00:55:00,660 --> 00:55:02,660
Everyone has ADD.

781
00:55:02,660 --> 00:55:03,660
Yeah.

782
00:55:03,660 --> 00:55:04,660
Yeah.

783
00:55:04,660 --> 00:55:07,060
Everyone has it now.

784
00:55:07,060 --> 00:55:08,060
Everyone.

785
00:55:08,060 --> 00:55:10,260
I mean, and it's not by choice.

786
00:55:10,260 --> 00:55:14,100
I mean, the amount of notifications, the amount of advertisements, the amount of God knows

787
00:55:14,100 --> 00:55:15,100
what.

788
00:55:15,100 --> 00:55:16,100
And it's not just advertisements.

789
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:22,780
It's customized advertisements coming straight to you, which is additionally distracting

790
00:55:22,780 --> 00:55:28,060
towards the life you're trying to live.

791
00:55:28,060 --> 00:55:31,460
Yeah.

792
00:55:31,460 --> 00:55:38,540
When I think about all of this, like, how is someone supposed to function in day to day?

793
00:55:38,540 --> 00:55:42,340
And for me, I took a course with Harvard Medical School.

794
00:55:42,340 --> 00:55:43,340
It's an online.

795
00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:46,100
I think I paid $35 for it.

796
00:55:46,100 --> 00:55:47,580
It's not like an accredited course.

797
00:55:47,580 --> 00:55:51,900
Like, you're not going to get like credit and then go and finish your degree with it.

798
00:55:51,900 --> 00:55:52,900
Yeah.

799
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:56,180
It's just for personal development, personal use.

800
00:55:56,180 --> 00:55:59,540
It's called positive psychology.

801
00:55:59,540 --> 00:56:03,860
And this was actually the phone situation, technology situation was one thing that they

802
00:56:03,860 --> 00:56:06,740
discussed.

803
00:56:06,740 --> 00:56:10,380
But in general, mindfulness, which they teach in Buddhism.

804
00:56:10,380 --> 00:56:16,420
So being in the moment, remembering like, if you have an urge, I got to look at my phone,

805
00:56:16,420 --> 00:56:19,540
like it can wait one more minute.

806
00:56:19,540 --> 00:56:23,100
Find yourself, it can wait one more minute.

807
00:56:23,100 --> 00:56:28,260
Just because the world is moving a thousand miles an hour doesn't mean we have to.

808
00:56:28,260 --> 00:56:29,260
And be in the moment.

809
00:56:29,260 --> 00:56:34,940
And like, when you want to go for a walk, leave your phone in the house.

810
00:56:34,940 --> 00:56:36,220
Enjoy the walk.

811
00:56:36,220 --> 00:56:37,660
Enjoy the fresh air.

812
00:56:37,660 --> 00:56:41,460
Enjoy the series.

813
00:56:41,460 --> 00:56:46,180
And when you do that, and when I took that course and I started practicing what I learned,

814
00:56:46,180 --> 00:56:51,220
I felt this weight just fly off of me.

815
00:56:51,220 --> 00:56:55,300
And now I'm really in, I mean, when was the last time you saw me do one of these live

816
00:56:55,300 --> 00:56:56,300
talks?

817
00:56:56,300 --> 00:57:01,140
I am relaxed.

818
00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:05,340
Is my situation any better than it was three weeks ago?

819
00:57:05,340 --> 00:57:06,340
Absolutely not.

820
00:57:06,340 --> 00:57:08,340
But I'm being more mindful.

821
00:57:08,340 --> 00:57:09,340
That's all it takes.

822
00:57:09,340 --> 00:57:10,340
Yeah.

823
00:57:10,340 --> 00:57:13,620
And that's back to the work life balance.

824
00:57:13,620 --> 00:57:18,500
And what matters at the end of the day for our short lives here in Earth?

825
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:22,900
We were talking about even animals earlier on, weren't we late?

826
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:30,140
Like even what we can learn from our animals and how good it is to have a connection to

827
00:57:30,140 --> 00:57:35,460
animals, have a pet or get out in those walks.

828
00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:44,180
And start, I suppose, thinking about what matters.

829
00:57:44,180 --> 00:57:49,180
Is it only money or what else do you value?

830
00:57:49,180 --> 00:57:50,180
Yeah.

831
00:57:50,180 --> 00:57:53,100
Going through.

832
00:57:53,100 --> 00:57:55,100
Money is important, I think.

833
00:57:55,100 --> 00:58:01,940
It's really important because I don't think it's the most important thing because I think

834
00:58:01,940 --> 00:58:06,180
everyone in the world has heard this phrase, but you don't take money to the grave with

835
00:58:06,180 --> 00:58:07,180
you.

836
00:58:07,180 --> 00:58:08,180
Exactly.

837
00:58:08,180 --> 00:58:11,940
A rich man's grave and a poor man's is very same.

838
00:58:11,940 --> 00:58:12,940
Absolutely.

839
00:58:12,940 --> 00:58:16,620
Doesn't matter what kind of tombstone you put on it.

840
00:58:16,620 --> 00:58:21,740
But legacy does matter, you know, and live in a good life.

841
00:58:21,740 --> 00:58:28,940
And I suppose it's coming to that realization because some people don't.

842
00:58:28,940 --> 00:58:32,820
They don't stop to think about that.

843
00:58:32,820 --> 00:58:37,860
They stay going, they get caught up in that hamster wheel that never ends, that leads

844
00:58:37,860 --> 00:58:40,940
to bad health and unhappiness.

845
00:58:40,940 --> 00:58:42,260
Absolutely.

846
00:58:42,260 --> 00:58:52,140
What are your, what's your advice on making the workplace of this crazy workplace of today

847
00:58:52,140 --> 00:58:55,020
more happy late, you know?

848
00:58:55,020 --> 00:58:57,420
Some small, simple steps.

849
00:58:57,420 --> 00:59:02,660
So one thing that a lot of people do not do is some stuff, you know, I mean, it's actually

850
00:59:02,660 --> 00:59:06,940
more of a human solution than an organizational solution.

851
00:59:06,940 --> 00:59:11,300
And I think a lot of people don't self reflect.

852
00:59:11,300 --> 00:59:14,860
They don't take the time to really sit down and understand themselves, their strengths,

853
00:59:14,860 --> 00:59:20,340
their weaknesses, their mistakes, their flaws and, and strengths as well, you know, which

854
00:59:20,340 --> 00:59:24,020
I already said, but I want to emphasize that because I hit more negative notes.

855
00:59:24,020 --> 00:59:31,220
I want to be more positive on that, but like really being honest with yourself, but also

856
00:59:31,220 --> 00:59:37,220
pursuit of perspective really is enlightening and relieving.

857
00:59:37,220 --> 00:59:42,180
It's not easy to self reflect and sometimes it can be a very painful journey to do, but

858
00:59:42,180 --> 00:59:44,380
we all need to do it.

859
00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:53,940
And the second thing to be quite honest is no matter what you think about what someone

860
00:59:53,940 --> 01:00:01,380
is done or what someone's doing or what's whatever conclusion you have about someone,

861
01:00:01,380 --> 01:00:05,620
you never really know what they're dealing with.

862
01:00:05,620 --> 01:00:11,180
And I, this was, this is a quote from someone else is, you only know what you think you

863
01:00:11,180 --> 01:00:12,180
know.

864
01:00:12,180 --> 01:00:13,180
Yeah.

865
01:00:13,180 --> 01:00:15,780
And you never know what other people are going through.

866
01:00:15,780 --> 01:00:23,700
And you just got to be really accepting and live with the rule of benefit of the doubt

867
01:00:23,700 --> 01:00:26,700
for everyone.

868
01:00:26,700 --> 01:00:31,020
And that, that will give some peace to be honest.

869
01:00:31,020 --> 01:00:34,060
Because you're only really in control of yourself.

870
01:00:34,060 --> 01:00:37,500
You can control your own behavior.

871
01:00:37,500 --> 01:00:45,140
And as long as you do your best to have, have good intentions.

872
01:00:45,140 --> 01:00:52,500
And if everyone had good intentions and not not compete with one another, but work collaboratively

873
01:00:52,500 --> 01:00:55,260
it's a be a better place.

874
01:00:55,260 --> 01:00:59,220
Well some very evil people in the world thought that they had good intentions as well.

875
01:00:59,220 --> 01:01:03,940
So I wouldn't, I wouldn't take that completely on path.

876
01:01:03,940 --> 01:01:10,420
But but in general, it's about really pursuit of perspective because the people, the evil

877
01:01:10,420 --> 01:01:18,260
people who have had good intentions and made it in the history books for, you know, very

878
01:01:18,260 --> 01:01:21,740
notorious reasons.

879
01:01:21,740 --> 01:01:25,820
You know, they were flawed in their thinking and they never pursued perspective.

880
01:01:25,820 --> 01:01:32,740
They only went in with that one perception from their own eyes, from their own experience,

881
01:01:32,740 --> 01:01:40,260
and they never cared to actually see the good in the same situations with other people.

882
01:01:40,260 --> 01:01:41,540
Yes.

883
01:01:41,540 --> 01:01:44,020
So it's not always just about intention.

884
01:01:44,020 --> 01:01:48,740
I mean intention is good and it's a nice thing to have, but it needs to be directed

885
01:01:48,740 --> 01:01:50,740
in the right place.

886
01:01:50,740 --> 01:01:59,340
But we do have the power to control, you know, our own behavior and our thoughts and do the

887
01:01:59,340 --> 01:02:02,900
best we can.

888
01:02:02,900 --> 01:02:08,820
Whereas the constant victim culture and blame culture, you know, and it's very common in

889
01:02:08,820 --> 01:02:13,580
the workplace gets, you know, it creates a lot of problems.

890
01:02:13,580 --> 01:02:15,220
Yeah, that as well.

891
01:02:15,220 --> 01:02:19,020
I mean, accountability is a big thing.

892
01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:25,540
A friend of mine who was working in an organization for many, many years and I was asking her

893
01:02:25,540 --> 01:02:32,980
about, there was one toxic manager that came in one time into the workplace and the manager

894
01:02:32,980 --> 01:02:35,820
actually left themselves.

895
01:02:35,820 --> 01:02:37,820
And I said, how did that work?

896
01:02:37,820 --> 01:02:42,300
You know, when she said she left and I said, yeah, well, what happened?

897
01:02:42,300 --> 01:02:48,820
She says, what happened was the energy in the workplace was so good, no matter what

898
01:02:48,820 --> 01:02:53,180
she did, it was stronger than hers.

899
01:02:53,180 --> 01:03:03,420
Well, the strong energy wins, you know, and the team was so strong and so good to work

900
01:03:03,420 --> 01:03:11,780
very well together, very, very caring environment that it didn't matter what she said or did.

901
01:03:11,780 --> 01:03:15,300
They were stronger, you know, that energy was stronger.

902
01:03:15,300 --> 01:03:22,340
Yeah, I think these days it's a little bit harder to have a dominant positive culture.

903
01:03:22,340 --> 01:03:26,140
But it was strong.

904
01:03:26,140 --> 01:03:32,380
Yeah, they had built it over years, you know, to be strong.

905
01:03:32,380 --> 01:03:39,220
It takes a collective conscious effort from everyone on a team to have a very positive

906
01:03:39,220 --> 01:03:42,100
culture, you know, an environment.

907
01:03:42,100 --> 01:03:43,580
And it's not just one person.

908
01:03:43,580 --> 01:03:50,540
A leader is a leader can give guidance, but it takes effort from everyone to make things

909
01:03:50,540 --> 01:03:53,540
happen.

910
01:03:53,540 --> 01:03:56,700
Yes, and that's, I mean, about it.

911
01:03:56,700 --> 01:04:00,580
I mean, there's the phrase where, you know, you can bring the horse to the water, but

912
01:04:00,580 --> 01:04:03,020
if it doesn't drink, it's not going to drink.

913
01:04:03,020 --> 01:04:04,020
Exactly.

914
01:04:04,020 --> 01:04:05,020
Yeah.

915
01:04:05,020 --> 01:04:06,100
So I mean, it's the same concept here.

916
01:04:06,100 --> 01:04:12,580
I mean, if we want things to be better, if we want everything to kind of be more positive

917
01:04:12,580 --> 01:04:19,660
and positive work environment, it takes a collective effort from absolutely everyone.

918
01:04:19,660 --> 01:04:25,420
From you know, entry level employees, support staff, you know, the janitorial staff even

919
01:04:25,420 --> 01:04:31,420
legitimately that is included because because they are they are whether they like it or

920
01:04:31,420 --> 01:04:34,260
not involved with the employee experience.

921
01:04:34,260 --> 01:04:44,540
So everyone needs to put in that effort for a collective mental unity on positivity and

922
01:04:44,540 --> 01:04:47,700
collaboration and making things good for everyone.

923
01:04:47,700 --> 01:04:50,260
Respect for each other.

924
01:04:50,260 --> 01:04:51,260
Yeah.

925
01:04:51,260 --> 01:04:54,540
And giving opportunities as well, I think.

926
01:04:54,540 --> 01:04:55,540
Yeah.

927
01:04:55,540 --> 01:04:56,540
Sharing opportunities.

928
01:04:56,540 --> 01:05:02,980
If anyone wants to continue the session and share their opinions on a private Zoom call

929
01:05:02,980 --> 01:05:09,380
a collective Zoom call, I'm going to start hosting this same discussion with Mary every

930
01:05:09,380 --> 01:05:11,380
Saturday.

931
01:05:11,380 --> 01:05:17,540
You know, Mary might not always attend, but she's more than welcome to co-host with me.

932
01:05:17,540 --> 01:05:24,260
But I'll share the link that you can save to your browser.

933
01:05:24,260 --> 01:05:28,300
And once it'll be in the comment sections.

934
01:05:28,300 --> 01:05:30,900
So you can take that county link.

935
01:05:30,900 --> 01:05:35,940
It doesn't matter whether you're watching this from YouTube, LinkedIn or Facebook.

936
01:05:35,940 --> 01:05:40,420
So you take that county, you book one of the Saturdays and we'll attend maximum 10 people

937
01:05:40,420 --> 01:05:45,140
per Saturday just for the sake of, you know, getting things on rotation, keeping the conversation

938
01:05:45,140 --> 01:05:48,420
fresh and with lots of new ideas.

939
01:05:48,420 --> 01:05:54,460
And maybe we can even do some networking at the end of each of those sessions as well.

940
01:05:54,460 --> 01:05:56,420
Thank you, Mary for being with us.

941
01:05:56,420 --> 01:06:01,700
Thank you to everyone who participated in the comment section and anyone that may have

942
01:06:01,700 --> 01:06:07,260
enjoyed quietly observing as well.

943
01:06:07,260 --> 01:06:10,220
And thank you, ladies, for having me.

944
01:06:10,220 --> 01:06:17,300
Really enjoyed the conversation and would love to join you on those zooms on a Saturday

945
01:06:17,300 --> 01:06:21,300
or whichever platform you're going to have it on.

946
01:06:21,300 --> 01:06:22,620
And thanks everyone for coming.

947
01:06:22,620 --> 01:06:25,260
Lots of my friends there too.

948
01:06:25,260 --> 01:06:26,660
Thank you.

949
01:06:26,660 --> 01:06:27,660
Thank you, Mary.

950
01:06:27,660 --> 01:06:28,660
Thank you, Mary, for your time.

951
01:06:28,660 --> 01:06:30,500
Thank you, everyone, for attending.

952
01:06:30,500 --> 01:06:35,540
Really great comments, great ideas, great concepts.

953
01:06:35,540 --> 01:06:39,180
And hope to see you guys this or next Saturday.

954
01:06:39,180 --> 01:06:56,220
Have a good one.