Nobody ever takes accountability for those inaccurate
prophecies. And I think that we all have known
that those things have been an issue. It's just
coming to the surface now where I actually think
it's the Lord refining us in a way that we can
have purity in the Spirit again. God promises
in Joel 2 .28 to pour out His Spirit on all humanity.
Welcome to Global Outpouring, where we contend
for that promised outpouring, and we equip for
that outpouring so that we may engage in that
very outpouring. I'm Philip Buss. And I'm Sharon
Buss. Welcome to the podcast today. We're so
glad that you're with us. We have with us today
our friend Jeff Simons, who is going to be one
of our speakers at the convention 2025 coming
up in St. Louis. And we encourage you to be there
with us. But we're going to have a discussion
about the things that the Lord is showing him
and leading him to bring to the body about restoring
purity in the body of Christ. Thanks for joining
us today. If you haven't already done so, before
we get started, we want to encourage you to go
to our website, globaloutpouring .net. Make sure
that you're on our mailing list, our email list.
so that we can stay in touch with you, keep you
informed of what we're doing. While you're out
there, you can also look at the event page for
Convention 2025. We have all of our speakers
lined up now. We're going to have Siggy Oblander
opening for us, and Tony Kemp will be ministering,
and Dean Braxton, and Jeff Simons is one of our
speakers. Jean Little, and I'll be speaking also,
and we're just going to have a glory time in
the presence of the Lord. His presence is always
so amazingly manifest at this convention because
He just loves to connect with us, and we love
to connect with Him. We'll have deep worship.
tremendous intercession and we'll have flags
of the nations around the room and you can pray
over the nations. There's tremendous intercessions
going to go on and opening the word, it'll be
deep and glorious and you'll be able to make
new friends and relationships that'll go on for
eternity. So we want to encourage you to plan
to be with us May 21st through 24th in St. Louis.
at the St. Louis Airport Marriott Hotel. It's
going to be a glory time. Please make your plans
to be there. Well, Jeff Simons, it's such a pleasure
to have you with us on the Global Outpouring
Podcast again. It's been about a year or so since
we've had you with us and since you had us with
you on your podcast. So welcome. We're glad you're
with us. Well, thank you very much. It's good
to be here. We were chatting before we started.
on this, just trying to get the mind of the Lord
of what direction he wants to take us. First
of all, I just want to say that we're looking
forward to having you with us at Convention 2025
at the St. Louis Airport Marriott Hotel, because
I feel like there's such a connection in the
spirit. When we connected a year ago, I just
really felt like there's a real connection. And
then you came here for the Eclipse event that
we had in April of last year. And we just felt
like family right from the get -go. So I don't
know if you have any leading yet as to what you're
going to be ministering on at the convention.
But if it comes out in this conversation, that
would be good. But we just want people to get
to know you. And we'll encourage folks to go
back to the recording that we did a year ago.
And we'll put a link to it in the show notes.
So you have your own podcast, the Kingdom Awakening
podcast. That's the name of your ministry. Oh,
and tell us that little piece that you told us
a year ago about. of the names that you were
possibly considering for your ministry. What
was one of those? Well, there was outpouring
international. There was global outpouring was
one of the ones that I was considering. And those
two are what we were considering too. Isn't that
a stunning thing? I just love that. Yeah. That
is so amazing. So you have that podcast and you
have a podcast with John Mark Baker called Minor
Prophets. And I've listened in on some of the
things that you have been tackling, talking about
the stuff that's going on, the exposures that
are going on in the church, in ministries where
people who have not been acting according to
the word of God are being exposed for it. What
I heard that you and John Mark were sharing together,
I appreciate how you handled it. Just give us
a little bit of your heart about that subject.
Well, first, thank you for appreciating how we
handled it. Not everybody had that response.
It's interesting because it's dancing a fine
line, right, where there's entire camps that
have been publicly stating things against charismatic
ministers for a long period of time. They don't
have an audience to the charismatic church because
they denounce all things charismatic and cessationist
and things like that. And we're coming in saying,
OK, we're not in that camp, but we are acknowledging
that there's issues in our own stream of the
body. And and then the other extreme of that
is those that have. I'm going to use my language,
that have idolized individuals to such an extreme
that they have a hard time acknowledging when
one of those leaders or ministries does something
that is either unbiblical or wounding of people.
And we're not in that camp either. We need to
be able to discern rightly. And there's places
where we're trying to address. unbiblical practices
that we have in the charismatic movement. As
people that are in that movement, I speak in
tongues and prophesy and pray for the sick and
have encounters and miracles. My salvation story,
I got saved and shortly after went to heaven.
So I don't know what the different levels of
charismatic are, but I have a shofar and I have
a tallit. So that puts me up there. You may not
catch me with the flags, but I'll think about
it. So it really started, John Mark came as a
guest onto my podcast on Kingdom Awakening. And
we found that we both had a heart for seeing
purity come back to the charismatic movement.
Yes. And we started to find these areas where
the things that we were quoting and saying didn't
align biblically. Come on. And it was hard because
you kind of have to distinguish between, okay,
am I, we'll just take prophecy, for example,
right? So in 1 Corinthians, we are commanded.
One prophesies and the others judge the prophecy.
Now, it doesn't mean you judge the prophet. It
means you judge the prophecy. Well said. And
the challenge that we have is we need to be able
to say, okay, this is good. This is bad. That's
accurate. That's inaccurate. And a lot of times,
depending on somebody's background in our movement,
they have their identity connected to certain
aspects of this. So to them, if you judge...
a prophecy, oh, you're judging, you're saying
I'm not a prophet. And we're actually, we're
not making any statements about, you know, offices
or titles or anything like that. But we're saying,
okay, we need to judge prophecy. We're supposed
to be doing this. Yes. And it's a clear example
of what we have lost. And I want to make sure
that I'm clearly stating this is my opinion.
I believe that we have significantly lost credibility
to the world. We lost a lot of credibility in
2020. We've lost credibility since then, where
there are certain prophetic voices that are saying
that they're going to heaven and seeing Santa
Claus and fictional characters. Which, okay,
so we have a bunch of bad things that are out
there. That wouldn't be an issue. if we were
actually calling balls and strikes. If we were
saying, okay, for example, say that our podcast
existed two years ago and we had people that
were on and sharing the prophetic word for the
year and things of that nature. And somebody
said, in this next year, we're going to have
World War III by the end of 2024. And then 2024
rolls, comes through in the end of 2024. I then
have a responsibility to the audience. to clarify
and say, we have this person on, and we can't
particularly speak to what they were hearing
or not hearing, but we know that that word did
not come to pass. And it means that we need to
then view future words with a higher degree of
scrutiny. It doesn't mean that we fully discredit
the individual. Oftentimes, it's a learning experience.
True. I remember there was a time, and this was
fairly early in my, and my growth in the prophetic
where I had a friend call me and he said, Hey,
give me a, give me a word from the Lord. And
you know, if you, you get a reputation and people,
it's well -intentioned and you know, they just
want clarity from the Lord on a particular subject.
And I, I saw a picture of somebody running. So
I, you know, I immediately spiritualize it and
said, OK, well, the Lord is saying that you're
running your race and that you need to persevere
and endure and you're going to run your race
well. And, you know, I forget what all I said
because it was wrong. But he said, well, I'm
going to receive your interpretation. I was I
was asking the Lord what I needed to do to lose
weight. And so it was a literal word that I spiritualized
rather than just taking what I heard and communicating
that. So I'm not saying that we can't miscommunicate
things, but we have made the exception the rule.
And I think this is true in a lot of different
things, actually, where we have exceptions biblically
for a conditional versus an unconditional prophetic
word. There's times where you have an option
whether or not you see the fulfillment of the
word. So an example of that is Agabus giving
the word to Paul and Paul says, you know what,
I'm going to go to Jerusalem anyway. He didn't
have to. He had a response to seeing that fulfillment.
The problem is most of the time the people that
teach on conditional prophetic words never get
an unconditional prophetic word and they don't
get them accurate. So it's creating a loophole
where I'm never accountable for anything prophetic.
So I think that we have to get back to authentic
prophecy, to not trying to be the next superstar
of prophetic and have the next gigantic word.
Because like I was talking to one of the leaders
from International House of Prayer, and he was
talking about the challenges that he's had with
individuals that have sold their homes and relocated
based on doomsday prophecy. from certain ministries.
And he said, it's so damaging to these families
to have those types of things. I'm like, yeah,
you're right. And he said, and they never get
fixed up. They never get cleaned up. Nobody ever
takes accountability for those inaccurate prophecies.
And I think that we all have known that those
things have been an issue. It's just coming to
the surface now where... I actually think it's
the Lord refining us in a way that we can have
purity in the Spirit again. Absolutely. You know,
I have continually been repeating the Scripture,
everything that can be shaken is being shaken,
so that that which cannot be shaken will remain.
And that's a good thing. It's a wonderful thing
that our Father cares enough about us to bring
us correction. You know, correction is not rejection.
Right. And we have to have correction or else,
you know, Paul says we're bastards. If you don't
get the correction, you know. He disciplines
those he loves. Exactly. He who he loves, he
chastises. Exactly. So we have to embrace these
things. And God said, I'm starting at my church.
But he's wanting to shake everything. everything
is being shaken. And we're seeing more of that
now, that everything is being shaken so that
that which cannot be shaken will remain. And
it's a good thing. We just have to say thank
you to our Father and run to Him, run to that
mercy seat, because that's where we get back
on the purity train, you know, the righteousness
train. That's the path. It's the path. It's the
derrick. It's the way. And our father spelled
it out for us so clearly in his word. It's Isaiah
35, 8. And a highway shall be there, and it shall
be called the way of holiness. The unclean shall
not pass over it. It shall be long to those who
walk on the way. Even if they are fools, they
shall not go astray. So even the very simplest
of people, if they'll just get into line with
the word. You're not going to fall off the way
if you get where you understand there is a soulish,
fleshly way, and there is a spirit way, Holy
Spirit way, a word way. And what does Romans
8 say? Verse 14, for all who are led by the Spirit
of God are sons of God. And that word sons is
the mature sons, the ones that are old enough
to... have been working with dad long enough
that they know how he thinks and they've been
trusted with the checkbook and the keys to the
office and they can write contracts for dad and
sign contracts for dad and dad will say, yeah,
I'll stand behind that, you know, because they're
mature. They've worked with him long enough.
That's where we've slipped a lot, where we have
not. I mean, the whole point of the fivefold
ministry is to bring up everybody in the congregation
into a place of ministry rather than being out
there as, you know, I'm the hero. And I'm not
saying that specifically about anybody, but there
can be that tendency to think of ourselves more
highly than we ought to think. Right. And one
of the themes that's kind of come up a few times
recently is the sins of Eli. And, you know, that's
something that's been repeated from multiple
different sources that have said, I feel like
we're dealing with the sins of Eli. Yes. And
while I think that's true, I also think the Lord
impressed upon me one time that Samuel, when
Israel first cried out for a king, it was because
of the wickedness of Samuel's sons. to deliver
Israel from under the sins of Eli through Samuel,
Samuel repeated the same thing. It's very true.
That Samuel still didn't train up his sons to
walk after the Lord. And you could look not to
identify any particular ministry, but you could
go back to the Kansas City prophets and say,
okay, they identified issues with Paul Cain and
with Bob Jones, and they had the courage to confront
those leaders at that time. And now those same
ministries that had the courage to confront then
are the ones that are being challenged now. And
I think that in many ways, and I've said this
to several other ministers in this process, we
need to be able to say what's true and say what's
false, say what's good and say what's bad. And
at the same time, not think of ourselves as more
highly than we ought. It's not like we are incapable
of making the same error. And we need to make
sure that we don't rebuild the thing that the
Lord seems to be tearing down right now. the
removal of idols, again, using my language, idols
in the church where we have worshiped people
instead of worshiping the Lord. And we will take
a person's word and elevate it. If we're honest
with ourselves in times, we'll elevate a quote
from a certain minister above clear scripture.
And, you know, so it's idolatry. And actually,
it doesn't help that minister either. You know,
that when Israel. Forgive me for bouncing around
a little bit. But, you know, when Israel, when
they come out of Egypt, right? The Israelites,
right when they come out, they go to their neighbors,
the Egyptians. They are given all this gold and
all the blessing and everything. And they plundered
Egypt, right? Yeah, right. So then they're out
in the wilderness. It's been a minute. And they're
waiting at Sinai. Moses is up there. And the
very thing that was a blessing to them, given
to them by the Lord, is what they melted and
made an idol out of. The thing that was meant
to be a blessing to them and to their household,
they turned it into an idol. And I think we've
done the same thing. The ministers of our day
are meant to be a blessing to the body, to contribute
to the body, and to serve and undergird us. But
in many ways, we've turned them into idols, which
was, it's to their detriment and to ours. I think
we have to be intentional to avoid repeating
that same mistake. Yes, absolutely. Before we
hit the record button, we were talking about,
you made a comment that I thought was quite amazing.
You said we're gaslighting ourselves and calling
it faith. Can you explain that? I think that's
just a huge, huge statement. Well, gaslighting
is kind of a buzz term, buzz word right now.
Explain that, because not everybody will know
that word. Back when we had gas stoves, if somebody
asked you, did you leave the stove on enough
times, even if you had turned it off, you might
start to think that you had left it on because
somebody tells you enough times. Gaslighting
is essentially, I tell you something as though
it's not true and just keep saying it over and
over until you believe it. Sounds like the media.
Yeah, I think the term maybe originally started
when we had gas lights before electricity. And
the first story that I've heard about is that
this man was trying to convince his wife that
she was going crazy. And he would turn the lights
down and make her think that he wasn't being
truthful and trying to make her think she was
crazy. Gotcha. It's essentially lying over and
over. Contradictory to what you know to be true.
Yes, to make you think you're crazy. Right. If
it's to somebody else, it's to convince them
of whatever it is that you're lying about. You
know, the sky is green, the sky is green, the
sky is green, whatever. We gaslight ourselves
and we call it faith. And there are certain teachings
that can be incorrectly applied in a way that
cause people to practice this. For example, a
friend of mine had his marriage blew up recently,
and he got divorced, not to his own fault. But
in this process, he started to realize, oh, there's
things I've done wrong in my marriage. And he
starts to acknowledge these different areas of
his heart where he had prioritized ministry or
prioritized other things other than his marriage.
Again, it doesn't. mean that that was necessarily
the the only thing happening right but then all
of a sudden he said i heard this message and
i realized oh i'm righteous by faith i'm you
know father thank you so much that i am i am
by faith i'm right and and i said hang on a second
you were having a moment where you were authentically
repenting and you just shortcutted yourself from
that process to say that because the reality
is repentance can be painful Oh, yeah. Sure.
Humbling. Humbling. Very humbling. It's acknowledging
that you have done something wrong, that you
have some way affected somebody else. And if
it wasn't somebody else, another human, the Lord,
and acknowledging ways that you have wounded
somebody. It's not a fun process, but it is part
of the process to acknowledge how our... decisions
and actions and words have affected others. And
if you shortcut that process and say, you know
what, by faith right now, everything is perfect.
That doesn't change the reality of what you've
done. It doesn't change your inner heart even.
What it is, is you're lying to yourself so that
you feel okay. It's a way of trying to appease
your conscience rather than actually doing the
harder work of acknowledging. what the root issue
was going on in your heart when you were doing
those things. Right. Yeah. I've said for years
that we all want to be humble, but we don't want
to have to go through humiliation to get there.
Right. So that's why it's important that we humble
ourselves rather than. He'll exalt you in due
time. Yeah. It's not right away time. Yeah. You
got to walk through the whole thing. You got
to finish the process. Absolutely. And I heard
a story of a pastor the other day who he was
sharing of how when he was early on to becoming
a pastor, he had significant pride in his heart.
And he would go to this donut shop for these
leadership meetings with his leaders and he was
meeting there every week. But he was so prideful
and dictated to them what they should do that
he got fired shortly after, after being on staff
at this church. He gets a job at the donut shop.
And one day he sees the leadership group come
in that he used to lead. And the owner tells
him, I want you to go wash the windows. He says,
no, please, anything but washing the windows,
anything else. And the owner said, no, you need
to wash the windows. And the Lord told him. First
window, second window, and he gets to the window
in front of him. And the Lord told him, it wasn't
humiliation that I desired for you. It was humility.
And I think that humiliation, it's one of the
ways that we get it. But it doesn't have to be
that way. Right. If we're stubborn, if we double
down in pride, the reason humility is a requirement
is it creates space for us to receive his grace.
Oh, that's beautiful. But if I'm full of pride,
I actually can't receive the grace that God wants
to bring to me. Very true. And I was just looking
up at scripture, you know, humble yourself. In
the sight of the Lord. In the sight of the Lord,
he'll exalt you in due time. And that due time
is Kairos. Oh, there you go. So it's a season.
Yeah, it's a certain moment of opportunity that
isn't always there. How long is your season depends
how. Humble you are. How quickly. How quickly
you admit that you need help. Because really,
we can't do this, even this on our own. It's
a work of getting into agreement with the Holy
Spirit when he's trying to polish and root out
things that don't belong there. And, you know,
iron sharpens iron. So sometimes he puts us with
other kind of people that are just. Way too similar
to ourselves. What are they used to polish diamonds
with? Other diamonds, yeah. Other diamonds. Yeah.
Oh, wow. It's just as hard. Let your light shine.
You've got to go through some polishing. That's
true. Never thought of it that way. But it's
worth it. Yeah. Absolutely. Anything Jesus does
for us is worth it. Yeah. Yeah. And I see that
out of all of this correction that the Lord is
bringing us. He's going to bring us into a place
where we're going to be more palatable as believers
to people who don't know Jesus. You know, there's
a movement out there of people who are, they
call themselves ex -evangelicals because of church
hurt or whatever. And I heard a quote recently
that there's no hate like Christian love, where
people have encountered fleshly Christians. instead
of Christians that are flowing in the love of
God. The love of God is real. But the soulish
nature, that's the part that we have to work
out our own salvation in. Applying the finished
work of Jesus, applying that grace, receiving
that grace so that we can humble ourselves and
admit that we're wrong and get back on the wagon
of rolling with Jesus. Right. Sometimes we want
the Lord to directly say everything to us. We
only want to receive it from Him. And sometimes
it can be harder to receive when it's, like you
mentioned, that other person, that iron sharpening
iron. So I have a practice that I do for my ministry.
And I had a friend that just challenged me to
increase the way I do it. It's actually, I covered
it briefly. my book, which is the importance
of correction. So every once a year, I ask all
of the board members for our ministry to seek
the Lord intentionally asking him correction
that he has for me. It can be personal. It can
be, it can be for the ministry. It can be any
of it, anything. And inviting that correction
where if I can get that practice down. I won't
be shocked when people give me feedback of you
did something wrong here or you need to correct
this where it can become part of where I'm more
receptive to correction from the Lord. And I
had a friend who I was sharing this with him
and he said, I would challenge you to have your
kids ask you too. And I was like, oh, that's
good. That's a really good idea. And I did ask
my son. I don't remember if he had something.
If he did, I wrote it down, but, um, actually,
no, I remember he hasn't got back to me yet,
but the, um, it's teenagers. Yeah. Maybe dad,
you didn't let me borrow the Mustang to go drive
when I wanted to, you know, but, um, but really
what we, what. if we can get this as a common
practice, what we start doing is we give people
permission to say the things that have been going
on that they've been feeling or negatively experiencing
us because not everything is, is something that
you're doing intentionally. You may, I mean,
in all likelihood you're doing it. You're not
aware of it. You're not aware of how other people
are receiving you. Yeah. That's why Jesus said,
father, forgive them. They know not what they
do. Most of the time people don't know what they're
doing. Right. Some of. you know, call it in the
charismatic, we call it Jezebel and in psychology,
they call it narcissism. Okay. Call it what you
want. Most of the time when people are operating
in those things, they don't know that they are
like that to them. It's normal. This, this is
what they experienced and this is normal for
them. And if they can have enough humility to
ask the question of, okay, am I doing something
that is contrary to how the Lord would have me
either lead or, you know, whether it be a family,
a ministry, whatever, then you can start to adjust
those things and not assume. And this is what
most of us do, right? We assume that we're doing
everything correctly and we just keep going until
the Lord says something or we hit a dead end
and we're like, oh, wait, what was that? You
know, and it doesn't have to be that way. Right.
Absolutely. What else is the Lord speaking to
you about besides that? kind of thing, looking
at the body of Christ and seeing where we need
improvement. What else is the Lord saying to
you? Well, one I've just been asking the Lord,
a lot of times He'll speak to you even through
people's accusations. If we can get an ear for
it, where even somebody that doesn't have the
Lord's heart on something, there can still be
elements of truth in it. that if we can humble
ourselves and listen to. So I've been asking,
since we've done the Minor Prophets podcast,
we've had a handful of negative responses that
I actually, I enjoy taking those before the Lord
and asking, Lord, okay, what of this? Because
it's actually, if we can, again, if we can have
that right heart posture, then it means that
negative things can quickly be turned around
into refinement of character. Beautiful. So I've
been asking the Lord, okay, Lord, is my heart
right when I said this, when I did that, those
types of things. And interestingly, as you mentioned
before, the Lord is shaking everything that can
be shaken. And humility is the key right now.
Judgment is coming to the house of the Lord.
The Lord is the one doing it. And I also believe
that the Lord is restoring authentic shepherds
to the body, those that care primarily about
the people, not about building followings. And
I'm not saying that we haven't had that because
I believe that we have. Yes. I think it's really
the minority that have had these issues, right?
I hope. I hope it's not the majority. You know,
I'm reluctant to say just because. a lot of times
and i'm sure you guys have seen this for me anyway
i assume when i get a word from the lord that
it somehow it has some broad meaning to everybody
and you know or at least i did at some at one
point and i don't think that's necessarily representative
of the entirety of the body so just because he
says something to me about the you know the stream
that i'm in it may not apply to others i don't
know is what I would say. I think that we have,
there's plenty of authentic pastors that are
just serving in their local church and doing
their best to build up people on a weekly basis.
Yes, absolutely. It's interesting. You know,
one of the words that was coming or swirling
around was the spirit of accusation or the accuser
of the brethren, right? And I was asking the
Lord, I'm like, Lord, where are these? Are these
happening right now? And is this something that...
am I functioning in any kind of accusation? And
he kind of walked me through, okay, what is an
accusation? Accusation is a false witness. So
something that never happened. An accusation
is something that's been redeemed. So you've
repented for it. It's under the blood, but the
enemy, this is what we see with the accuser,
the brethren standing when he's standing before
Joshua, right? And he's accusing him, but the
Lord then changes his robes, right? So something
that's already been redeemed or it's something
true. And the intention or motive is to tear
down. And when he said that last one, I was like,
okay, when we're having these conversations about
hard subjects, our goal is never to tear anything
down. But that voice is going out there right
now where there are those that are trying to,
to tear things down. And unfortunately it's usually,
and I'll just use this example because it's already
known. for example, with Mike Bickle and IHOP,
it was the people that were trying to silence
all of these victims. They were accusing them
of, you're just trying to take over IHOP, or
you're just trying to tear down Mike Bickle.
None of those things were true. There was no
evidence of any of those things. It was just
throwing accusation out there to try to draw
attention away from the real thing that was happening,
which was unfortunately significant. misconduct.
Bad behavior. Yeah, yeah. We don't want the censor
overlords to get us, but yes. Right. Horrible,
horrible behavior. So is the spirit of accusation
out there? Yeah, it is. And we need to be aware
of it. That's why we need to speak the truth
and speak it in love. But that doesn't mean that
we don't speak the truth and it doesn't mean
that we stop loving. Right. Yeah. And we're going
a little over time, but I'm going to throw this
at you anyway. You know, it's interesting. Have
you ever thought about how You know, when Paul,
when he's brought in front of, I believe it was
in front of the Sanhedrin's Acts, it's Acts 23,
where he actually intentionally sows discord
between the Sadducees and the Pharisees. Start
a riot. Where he used that because their ability
to attack one another actually caused a disruption
and it exposed an issue. Right. I actually think
that we're seeing some of that happening right
now in the church where there's some of the conflict
that's happening is the Lord is allowing it because
it's exposing things. Yes. Yes. You know, he's
after a pure bride without spot or wrinkle. Right.
That's really the bottom line. And when we are
not focusing on his heart, on his ways, on...
I remember hearing somebody say that there are
rabbis, Orthodox rabbis, that will not marry
a couple unless they look like brother and sister
because they need to be that much alike in order
for them to have a successful marriage. One of
the things that I always tell young people that
are considering, where's Mr. Right, where's Miss
Right? I'm looking for the one that I want to
spend the rest of my life with. And I tell them
how God put Philip and me together. And we have
a very successful marriage. Mostly, I think,
well, mostly because God's in it. But a lot of
it has to do with the fact that we were raised
in a similar way with similar thought patterns.
Our parents raised us in church. I was not raised
Pentecostal like he was. But I got into it when
I was 13. Well, you got filled with the Holy
Spirit before I did. Yeah, right. But you had
been exposed to it and I hadn't. But anyway,
my point is that our lifestyle and our upbringing
was very similar. And I'm not saying that you
can't have a successful marriage if you don't
have that. But what I'm saying is that our father
is looking for someone just like his son to be
able to marry him. and the body of Christ is
meant to be that, that we're being refined by
the Holy Spirit, like Galatians 5, where you've
got all of this long list of fleshly works, and
then you've got this list of the fruit of the
Spirit. And if you read the fruit of the Spirit,
you're looking at the character of Jesus. Right.
So he's after us to work those things out in
us. And the more we yield, the easier the process
will be. And if we're really honest with ourselves,
it's the only thing that really matters. Yes.
And I was having a conversation with a friend
the other day, and we were talking about the
unspoken caste system. And Christian ministry.
And I said, you know, at the top, it's itinerant
minister if you're full time itinerant. And then,
you know, if you're not if you're a pastor and
you have an occasional conference here and there,
then, you know, you're you're slightly below
that. You know, people want to hear what you
have to say, but you're not quite to that top
tier where you get to travel all the time. And
then, you know, below that, it's just, you know,
full time local pastor. Your needs are taken
care of. And, you know, people have a they have
a need for. for you to shepherd over them, but
you know, it's, and you get paid that way. But,
and then below that, it's, well, a lay pastor,
you know, you're, you're doing, or lay minister,
you know, where you have a job and it's, you
got to take care of your family, but your ministry
thing isn't doing well enough that you're fully,
you know, and it's, it's interesting how, and
I see it as somebody that has a full -time job,
you know, and it doesn't, it doesn't matter to
me. Sometimes people will receive you differently.
when they find out you have a job. Or if you're
an itinerant minister, you show up and they're
like, oh, they're finally here. The anointing
has arrived. And some of them are scoundrels.
Right, right. And I think you can have honor
and hear what I'm saying, not what I'm not saying.
There's something right about honoring people
and things. Absolutely. In that we have actually
in some passive way, we've communicated that
when you're a really high performing Christian
or you're really, really super spiritual, you're
preaching conferences and or doing big crusades.
And that is so contradictory to what we see in
the gospel, you know, that we should be storing
up treasure. in heaven not treasure on earth
yeah and and what we do for the least of these
what i if i give a cup of water to a child that's
and i do that in his name that is doing it as
unto him right and The things that we do, and
this is a big part of the Sermon on the Mount,
is the distinction between you say, but I say,
you say, but I say. And you go and pray for people
publicly to be seen by men so that they may honor
and esteem you. But I say when you pray, go into
your closet where your Father is the only one
that can see you. Yes. You know, so we've made
the Christian and I think we've, we've communicated
kind of passively. I don't think that anybody
would, would actually say, you're really, you
know, you're really a super Christian when you
have a book deal with destiny image, you know,
and I'm not knocking destiny image or, you know,
I'm just, I'm making jokes, but the, but what
gets communicated to people is they start to
think, oh, I want to be as spiritual as. Heidi
Baker and a Bill Johnson. And those things are
okay. Paul says, follow me as I follow Christ.
But we need to, in that pursuit, recognize that
this is not about becoming the next big speaker.
The gospel is about how do I steward my time?
How do I take care of the coworker that I'm interacting
with? How did I steward that relationship? What
did I do when I drove past the same homeless
person that's begging for food money every day
at the corner you know so those things actually
matter more in heaven than whether or not you
had an itinerant gig and and i say that as somebody
it's one of my favorite things to do by the way
is preaching conferences and i'm super excited
to to be with you guys in may i just i love it
but i also don't over emphasize it and i have
to have a check in my heart a guard rails in
place you know so I want to make sure that the
things that I do are primarily before the Lord.
And the reason I do them is because I know their
eternal significance, not just in a conference
setting. It's important to be faithful there
too, but also when I'm at home with my wife and
kids and how I steward those relationships. Very
true. Everything in between. Very true. You know,
you're going to meet, have you met Dean Braxton
before? I haven't. Okay. So you're going to meet
him at this convention. And we've had a couple
of podcasts with him that covered a subject because
he spent an hour and 45 minutes outside of his
body. His body was dead. The medical team was
working on him for an hour and 45 minutes, and
he finally came back. In the meantime, he was
with the Father and Jesus in heaven. And one
of the things that he tells, and we'll put links
to the podcast where he's talking about it in
the show notes, he talks about In heaven, they
communicate thought to thought rather than speaking.
And everyone greets each other with, how can
I serve you? And it's all about service. It's
all about how can I serve you? And everything
in heaven is alive and intelligent and can communicate
the grass and the flowers and the rocks and the
atmosphere and the mountains. trees and you know
everything is alive and and communicating and
he talks about how like even the plants as he
arrived were welcoming him and that's how they
were serving him so my whole point here is that
we have so often i think in the body is in our
attempt to honor and and perhaps in in the idea
of idolizing that we have put such an emphasis
on serving the top echelon and not the one on
the street that needs help. You know, how can
I serve you? How can I serve you? And, you know,
I just think it's so important for us to be tuning
in to the Holy Spirit and not just do stuff because
you see it with your eyes in the natural realm,
but that we become so tuned to the Holy Spirit
that we get that nudge. to speak to this person
or to do something for that person or to serve
them in a way that is beyond their expectation.
Like to give the cup of water to a child, like
you said. Those are things that we do on earth
as it is in heaven. And it's our service to one
another that God is looking for in ways that
we don't really grasp that in our culture so
much. But that's heaven culture. Yep. That's
one of the things that is so much on my heart
in this podcast is that we help equip people
to do on earth as it is in heaven. Amen. It's
like when Jesus was washing the disciples' feet.
Yes. Being a servant. Right. I'm modeling this
for you. Yeah. Here's what leadership should
look like. Yeah. Remember our last night in China?
Oh, yeah. One of those, the pastors. Came out
with this. It was cold. It was about 48 degrees.
Yeah, it was cold inside. In the church. And
they came out with this hot water, stuck our
feet in it, and they just started working all
over on our muscles, our back, and the pastor.
Yeah, washing our feet and massaging tight muscles.
It was amazing. Wow. But it's a culture of service.
Yeah. So I think we could learn a lot. about
serving and humbling ourselves to serve one another.
The reason why Peter said you shouldn't wash
my feet, I believe, as you look at how the disciples
were seated at the table, Peter was in the position
where he should have been washing everybody's
feet because there wasn't a servant to do it.
If there's a servant, the servant does it. But
if it's the last guy at the table, that should
be washing people's feet and peter didn't feel
like washing everybody's feet so he didn't and
that's why jesus did it it's it's about learning
to humble ourselves and serve one another in
in ways that you know the world doesn't teach
this right and you know i don't know about y
'all but i'm i'm sure you've seen this too the
place i see it the most is on the mission field
you know when when you're in impoverished third
world countries where being a leader is at your
expense. It's pouring out of yourself. It's a
service. That's where you get to see it really
walked out. And for me, that's, well, one, that's
where I come alive. I love missions. I know that
I belong on the mission field. The most fulfilled
I feel is when I'm out there. and eating awful
things, but enjoying people that just love the
Lord. And it's really maybe selfish isn't the
right word, but I feel like when I come back
from mission trips, I receive way more than I
give. Yes, it's beautiful. And just experiencing
the body in that way. Yes. And I'm hoping that
we will have a good representation of people
from many nations coming to this convention.
I hope they'll be able to get visas to come and
enjoy being together again like we have in years
past. But these last few years have been difficult
in terms of getting visas and so on. So we hope
they have success this year. and that you'll
get to meet some people from other nations that
you haven't been to yet. I know you've been to
several nations, and I love what God is doing
in your life, opening doors to new nations. So
before we close, would you pray for our listeners,
just as the Holy Spirit leads? Sure. Heavenly
Father, we thank you for the example that you
gave us in Jesus. Yes, Father. Or the example
of humility, of going low. Yes. Father, for those
that are confused by exposure, by things that
they've put their heart in, that ministries that
they've put their trust in, that have let them
down, Father, I pray that you would connect them
to pastors, to leaders, to those that can encourage
them in their walk and their destiny. Lord, let
the real things that they experienced of you
in those places, let those remain and let everything
else that can be shaken, Lord, let it just fall
to the floor. Yes. Yes, Father. Father, bring
us back to this place of authentic Christianity.
Yes, Lord. Forgive us for every way that we have
idolized people, where we have overlooked the
downtrodden. God, give us hearts. Like yours,
Jesus. Lord, give us hearts to be near to the
brokenhearted, to go low. Father, I pray that
you would restore compassion to the body. Yes,
Lord. Thank you, Father. And Lord, we thank you
for what you're doing. We thank you for the move
of the Spirit that we're seeing in high schools
and college campuses. God, I pray that you would
continue them, that you would increase it. Yes.
Thank you, Father. Lord, let this be the time
for a nameless and faceless generation to rise
up. Yes. Lord, that a move of the Spirit would
be released in our nation. Yes. Father, I pray
for the Spirit of Elijah to come, to restore
the hearts of fathers to sons and sons to fathers.
Yes, Father. Restore relationship. Lord, I pray
that Christianity would look like relationship
again. Yes. Relationship with you and relationship
with each other. Lord, we bless your name. And
we magnify you. I pray in Jesus' name. Amen.
Amen. Check out our website at globaloutpouring
.org to find out more information, read our blogs,
connect with us, and donate. You can also browse
our web store for life -changing anointed books.
Until next time, this is Sharon Buss. And I'm
Philip Buss. God bless you with His overwhelming,
loving presence.