1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,360 regardless of what miraculous event, what's going on, how fun it is, any of that takes a second 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:14,880 place to the fact that the things that we do we must do for the glory of God, for His Kingdom, 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,120 and at His direction. We only do those things that we see the Father do. 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:34,160 God promises in Joel 2.28 to pour out His Spirit on all humanity. Welcome to Global Outpouring, 5 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:39,120 where we contend for that promise outpouring, we equip for that outpouring, 6 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,440 so that we may engage in that very outpouring. I'm Philip Buss. 7 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:49,040 And I'm Sharon Buss. Welcome to the podcast today. We have with us some dear friends 8 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:54,560 Michael and Gordana van Vleimen. And Michael has been with us before on our podcast a couple of 9 00:00:54,560 --> 00:01:00,240 times, and Gordana is with us for the first time. And they are going to tell us some of their 10 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:14,800 testimonies of how they are ordinarily walking the supernatural. Welcome to the podcast today. We are 11 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:22,240 so glad that you are with us. You are going to really enjoy this podcast. These people that are 12 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:28,160 with us are just, well, they're just very, very special to us and to the Lord, and they're going 13 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:34,240 to be special to you too because of how God is going to use them in your life to help you get a 14 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:41,360 fresh vision and hope for what God wants to do with you as an individual. But before we get started, 15 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:48,400 I'd like to encourage you to go to our website, globaloutpouring.net, and be sure that if you 16 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:55,280 haven't already done so, that you will subscribe to our newsletter, our email lists, and so that we 17 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:01,200 can stay in touch with you and keep you up to date on what we're doing and what God is doing in this 18 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:09,280 ministry. And you can also get connected with us for how we are contending in prayer for the things 19 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,800 of God and for him to pour out his Spirit on all humanity and get involved with the way that we're 20 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:22,080 equipping people and all of our Facebook page and our YouTube channel. So we want you to get 21 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,720 better connected. We want to get to know you better too. So if you want to send us some feedback, 22 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:33,600 you can write to feedback at globaloutpouring.org or you can fill out the little feedback form 23 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:42,320 on globaloutpouring.net. So Michael and Gordana van Vleimen, thank you so much for joining us today. 24 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,720 Thank you for having us here. We're blessed. Thank you. It's an honor to be here with you. 25 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:53,040 Well, you've just been with us teaching in the School of the Supernatural Translation by Faith 26 00:02:53,040 --> 00:03:01,920 with Dr. Bruce Allen and his wife Reshma. And we've had such a glorious time. Wow, it was glorious. 27 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:08,880 And a lot of folks came in and got trained in lots of things of the Spirit and learning how 28 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:16,560 to walk in the Spirit and how to discern what's right and what's biblical and what's real from 29 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:24,160 what isn't. And wow, you've walked in a whole lot of that stuff yourselves. But I'd like to go back 30 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:33,440 and get your backstory a little bit. So how did you grow up? Well, yeah, so I grew up a great 31 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:39,200 distance from where we are right now. That's for sure. The church that I grew up in, we didn't 32 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:45,920 believe God did miracles anymore. We were taught, well, for instance, when I first learned about 33 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:52,880 Jesus and asked Jesus to come into my heart as a five-year-old, I was excited because our Sunday 34 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:59,680 school teacher told us about David and Goliath, Daniel in the lion's den, angels coming to visit 35 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:08,480 the believers. And just this life just seemed so adventurous that I was excited. So I would tell 36 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:16,720 all the kids at school about Jesus. But in our church, eventually they gave me the bad news when 37 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:23,280 I was about eight that, oh, I'm sorry, you can't have that kind of life. God doesn't do those things 38 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:32,000 anymore. No miracles, no angels, no prophets, no joy. Just basically everything you read about in 39 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,840 the Bible was more or less a history lesson, although they did teach us that God is real. 40 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,880 But it seemed like a very, it seemed like a bait and switch to me. 41 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:50,000 So then what happened in your heart? Well, in my heart, I just lost all joy to believe that I could 42 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:56,400 have a relationship with God because my idea of relationship was based on the stories I had been 43 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,520 told. This is what God has done. This is what God has done. And I thought, great, I'd like to be a 44 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:08,800 part of that. But when they said, you can no longer be a part, all of the joy of the journey was, was 45 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:15,120 like taken, stolen away from me in that moment. And so I just quit telling the kids about Jesus. 46 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:21,040 If I thought, if I can't really be a part of it, then why would I be excited about it? 47 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:28,880 Yeah. So I just kind of went, even though my dad was a pastor at the time, he was a pastor of a 48 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:36,560 dead church. So I just lost all joy towards the things of God and just kind of became like a 49 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:48,880 regular kid that had to go to church a few times a week. It was a bad situation because I think back 50 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,840 on that and I think if they had encouraged me in my walk with the Lord, how things would be 51 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:58,960 different. But I know God lays things out for a reason and he makes all things to work together 52 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:05,920 for good. Right. So he actually gave you a foundation for the church. 53 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:11,920 That would help you to help people that have that kind of foundation. 54 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:18,880 That's yes, that's absolutely true. There's so many people that they start that way that now I 55 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:24,960 have that foundation of how to get over that and a testimony similar to so many people. 56 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,880 So it has worked out pretty well. Yeah. So, so Gordana, how about you? What, 57 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,760 what was your life like as a child? You grew up in Macedonia. 58 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:40,240 I grew up in Macedonia, Eastern Orthodox and I went to church literally probably four or five 59 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,360 times a day. Four or five times a day. Yes. 60 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,680 So what did you do in church four or five times a day? 61 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,080 I would go in church and I would go in there and just pray whatever the need before going to school. 62 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:55,120 I would always go if I knew that we had a test or something. You had a break, you go back, 63 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:01,280 you go to church or after, after school, you, when you stop, you went out to the store and you go to 64 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:08,080 church again. That was me. It just literally, I knew they would help me. I would go in there and 65 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:16,880 pray to God, but keep it in mind, even though we went to church, my mom brought us up to fear God. 66 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:25,120 Also took us to church. We did all the rituals, the fasting, the whatever you had to do to go to 67 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:32,240 church, but I had no knowledge. I knew nothing about the Trinity, even though the icons are there, 68 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:37,920 you know, nobody, we didn't have a Bible. So I wasn't brought up with the Bible. The things that 69 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:44,000 I did, whatever the priest would tell my mom or whatever tradition she had to follow, we did the 70 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:52,320 same thing. So I never opened the Bible to literally till I married with Mike. So going to church and 71 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:57,680 I knew there was a God that he was up there somewhere, but that's all I knew. Did you love 72 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:04,560 him? Yes, I loved him, but I also fear them if I did something wrong and I always knew that he would 73 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:11,760 help me. So even though a lot of the people, pretty much everyone prays to Mary or the icons, 74 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,480 they have different saints. Okay. So what, explain what's an icon? Cause a lot of people don't know 75 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:22,960 that. Literally now being born again, I look back and I see they display the whole Bible, the Old 76 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:28,640 Testament and New Testament is through the icons. It's pictures, right? It's a picture or they have 77 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:34,320 a lot of the paintings on the walls. Yeah. And wasn't that for illiterate people to be able to 78 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:40,560 show the Bible stories? Literally, like I said, pretty much people, they did whatever the priest 79 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:47,360 would tell them to do. Even though you have these icons that we're talking small, huge icons brought 80 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:56,240 from all over. I would go in there just to pray to God. I never prayed to any of the saints. So all I 81 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:02,640 can say is God must have had his hand upon me. Yes, he did. He did. So a picture of a saint and an 82 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,360 icon would have like a, some kind of a metal kind of thing around it. Is that typical? It depends. 83 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:16,160 You can just get a plain piece of wood, the icon, just a picture of the Lord or the last supper. 84 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,960 I think I saw one in the house that they had. And have a halo around many of the saints too. 85 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:29,040 Yes. Pretty much every saint you can think of from old to new and people, a lot of times they're 86 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:34,960 named after some of the saints and they usually have a celebration. We celebrate birthday a lot, 87 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:42,000 but they celebrate every name of a saint. So they literally, I mean, celebrating. So whatever day 88 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:49,920 you're born on that there was a saint for that day. Yes. Yes. My name has no meaning as far as 89 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:56,800 of a saint. My mom, my brother, the rest of them, but not mine. They named me after one of their 90 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:02,400 friends there, Dr. Dinta's friend. So yeah. So then you came to America. How old were you 91 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,240 when you came to America? I was 15 when I came, spoke no English at all. Went to high school. 92 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:15,360 So there you could walk. So I went to church. That was my life. But here you had to drive 93 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:23,040 and I didn't speak the language and going to school, even though after I learned to drive, 94 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:29,760 we didn't go to church, maybe just for Easter or Christmas. That was it. So church was kind of like 95 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:36,400 in the back. I knew there was a God and I was at the hunger, but my life changed drastically. 96 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,320 When I got married, because I told the Lord, I said, I want to marry someone who knows you. 97 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:49,280 I had no idea what I was saying. I was someone who knows you, who loves you. So when I met Mike 98 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:55,120 and we got married and he kept talking about Jesus and I would say, you're crazy. I don't know what 99 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,880 you're talking about. I know God. He helped me because I didn't know the language helped me 100 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:06,240 finish high school, helped me go to college for hair. And thank God he never stopped. 101 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:12,240 He just kept talking about Jesus. Like keeping in mind, you know, the icons were there, but I never 102 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:20,720 ever heard anybody explain or tell me about it. One day, 1986 in our backyard, I remember after 103 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:27,120 Mike keep talking about Jesus, the Holy Spirit that just came upon me and gave me that revelation of 104 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:36,000 the Trinity. It's like a curtain was removed, the blindness off of my hearing, my understanding. 105 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:42,480 And I knew about the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. That's when the Holy Spirit became my 106 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:48,400 best friend. And I used to think that God, you know, you go to church and you fear, you go inside 107 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,120 the church, you know, like I never cursed none of that stuff, but you don't do anything bad, 108 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,840 you know, like smoking, drinking, none of that stuff, because she thought that God lived in a 109 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:05,040 building. I never knew he lived inside of you. I didn't know that I was the temple. So when the 110 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:12,000 Holy Spirit showed me that I was the temple and he lived inside of me, oh my goodness gracious. 111 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:20,000 Yes. What a revelation. He became my everything, everything in my life changed forever, forever. 112 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,080 Wow. Yeah. Wow. So thank God for Mike. 113 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:33,760 Amen. So Mike, at some point you had to have had a shift from that unhappy boy that found out you 114 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,560 couldn't do things and God did something in your life to show you that he was real. 115 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,960 That's true. That's true. I did come to that point. It wasn't at the first part of our marriage, 116 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:51,280 however, but I knew that even though I was told that God was not supernatural anymore, 117 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:59,520 I knew that that was the truth, that he existed. So I knew that Jesus died for our sins. I knew that 118 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:06,800 even though I was told that God doesn't do the miraculous anymore. So when I was talking to 119 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:13,520 Gordonna during this period, I knew that she had a fear of God, that she loved God, but I wanted her 120 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:19,200 to realize that there was more about having a relationship with Jesus. That's why I kept 121 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:25,600 talking to her about Jesus. I wanted her to get it. I believe the Holy Spirit, like she said, 122 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:31,600 the Holy Spirit gave revelation. I mean, I kept talking about it, but it's not like I was going 123 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:38,400 to talk her into it. God had to give the revelation. Yeah. So you were already back with God when you 124 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:45,200 met Gordonna? I wouldn't call it back with God at that point. Oh, okay. What's the timeline here? 125 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:51,360 Well, this was probably when we were in our early 20s, or around 24, 25 years old, 126 00:13:52,240 --> 00:14:01,200 when we connected and when we got married in 1986. So I knew about God. My father was a preacher. 127 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:08,320 We had been a missionary family. So I knew the reality of all of that. And I wanted her to know 128 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:14,720 that because I knew that you had to be born again. Okay. Not just know about God, but you had to be 129 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:21,280 born again. That's why I kept talking to her about it. But I still had a lot of problems because I 130 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:30,400 didn't really follow God because I was told years before, God doesn't do miracles. You can't be 131 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:38,080 like a David or an Elijah or an Enoch or any of those Bible heroes, Thomas or Philip. You can't 132 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:45,440 be like those guys. So I really didn't pursue God. I didn't want to just have a religious life. 133 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:55,920 It just seemed just very lame to me. And so what happened was because I wasn't seeking God, 134 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,960 and I was just kind of in the world going through the motions, maybe going to church once in a while, 135 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:10,880 my mind was captivated by the enemy. And so as I began to think about sinful things, I could not 136 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:19,440 keep those sinful thoughts at bay. So it just, it was overwhelming to me that this could even happen. 137 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,040 I'm thinking, I don't want to think these thoughts. I don't want to think these thoughts, 138 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,800 I don't want to think these thoughts, but they would come anyway. And there was nothing I could 139 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:35,760 do about it. I knew I couldn't pray because God doesn't do miracles today. Oh no. Yeah. So that 140 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:42,800 left me in a bad spot. I should say. I got to the point where I thought, I had this voice telling me, 141 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,040 there is no hope. You should end your life. There is no hope. You should end your life. 142 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:52,800 And I'm thinking, well, you know, that makes sense. There is no hope. God doesn't do miracles. 143 00:15:53,440 --> 00:16:00,640 But I thought on the off chance that he does, I'm going to ask him anyway. And so I said, 144 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:06,640 God, if you're real, because I hadn't seen the reality of God, that I was told he doesn't do 145 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:13,040 anything anymore. So I hadn't seen his power or his hand move in the lives of people around me. 146 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:20,480 So I said, God, if you're real, send an angel or a prophet or do something to rescue me. 147 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:28,400 And I prayed that for three days. And on the morning of the third day, I was working at a 148 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:34,560 people's house, Christian family's house, when they had a guest that drove up from Georgia. 149 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,000 The Lord had told a friend of theirs to drive up from Georgia to visit their friends in Indiana, 150 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:48,800 where I lived at the time. So he did. And through that meeting of that person is where I learned 151 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:57,200 that God still does everything he ever did. The Lord sent someone to pray for me. And when I met 152 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:05,920 this guy, I absolutely hated him. I mean, or something inside me hated him. But he just kept 153 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:12,160 talking to me and talking to me and talking to me about Jesus. And that really didn't do it for me. 154 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:18,480 But then he had four words of knowledge. And he told me exactly what was going on in my life. 155 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:25,600 And he said, right now, there's a spirit of suicide telling you, end it, there is no hope. 156 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:32,640 And that was exactly what I was hearing. And so he told me that the Lord told him to pray for me. 157 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:40,720 So he prayed for me three hours a day for a week. And, you know, I thought later I learned what kind 158 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:47,840 of love do people have that they're willing to pray for a stranger until they receive the breakthrough. 159 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:54,160 But I mean, I learned a lot just through that deliverance I received, because I realized 160 00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:01,440 the reality of spiritual things, the reality of the spirit realm, but the reality that believers 161 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:08,320 are meant to walk in a miraculous life. Hallelujah. So were you already married at that point? 162 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:14,560 We were. Yeah, we recently married. Yes. Okay. So Gordana, you saw a change. 163 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:21,440 I did, but I didn't know he was dealing with all this stuff. Okay. So he's going through that. And 164 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:27,760 at the same time, I'm like on fire for the Lord. I'm just in the Bible. Mike got me a Bible and 165 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:34,080 I'm just devouring the Word of God because I never had a Bible. So I'm reading all this stuff and I 166 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,160 just, I had the solution for the whole world, you know, I had my treasure, the prize is like, 167 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:47,760 we give, I give everything up. Wow. That my life started the new journey. 168 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:54,240 Can I share the first person that came? Because soon as I found out that he lives in me, 169 00:18:54,240 --> 00:19:00,400 that I'm his temple, things that was important, you know, it meant nothing to me. And I just 170 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,280 started, I would watch ministry. I watched Dr. Lester Summer, I've been here and they were my 171 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:11,040 spiritual fathers to help me to walk in because I didn't have anyone to, I didn't have a pastor, 172 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:16,720 you know, like you guys said, you were brought up with the Bible. I wasn't. So I started writing 173 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:23,680 checks to different ministry. I just give it all away and I never even had to ask Mike. And then 174 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:32,000 a guy comes and knock on the door. He gives me a scripture. He just, and I went open the door. 175 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,320 He gave me, and there was a piece of paper open that inside that said Philippians 419. 176 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:43,040 The first thing, and he left. I believe that was an angel because the guy didn't know me. 177 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:51,200 He didn't know what I was doing. Wow. So it was like a confirmation, but yes, that, that was my 178 00:19:51,200 --> 00:20:00,720 new beginning of life. And I just shared with everyone. I was, I was mocked by most of the 179 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:08,640 family, all the family and, um, France, you lose, you know, but if I get to do it again, 180 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:14,880 it's worth it because through that painful time of losing, you know, families and friends, 181 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:20,880 that's when I got to know him so well. Like I said, the Holy spirit became my best friend. 182 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:27,360 He would walk me through when I would read the word. If I had trouble, he would comfort me, 183 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,800 give me scriptures. He would tell me which person was coming, which demon was coming with them. 184 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:38,400 I would go to the store, anything that I needed help, you know, whatever I wanted to go, even to 185 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:46,960 stores to tell me keep best prices or where to find things. And, uh, it was, I, yes, I would do 186 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:54,320 it again. I will go back and do it again. Wow. So the, the two of you at some point began to 187 00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:02,880 really pursue God then, right? Yes. Yes, absolutely. It was, we came onto the same page, even though 188 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,600 I really didn't know much, and I don't think we're done a really knew much either, but 189 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:15,440 we did know that God is real. He can do anything. We just need to really pursue him. So Gordana was, 190 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:22,880 she was voracious, a Bible reader, continually in the word, continually sharing Jesus with the 191 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:29,920 people that would come in and around our life. And I also really began to pursue God with a passion 192 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:36,080 because I realized the importance of walking in what God had provided, the miraculous things of 193 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:43,200 God, because it saved my life. And I knew that there must be lots of people that needed to be 194 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:50,160 saved also. So we just, we began pursuing God with a passion at that point. So at some point, 195 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:57,040 you were hearing people talking about the miraculous. Yes, Gordana's friend. Would this happen 196 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,880 probably because I feel like the first walk, you know, with the Lord knowing him and seeing him 197 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:10,080 being on fire for him. But then something happened to me again in 11, 11, 2011, but that's when we 198 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:17,760 met Kim and she started talking and telling us about supernatural things, about being translated, 199 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:25,440 going places, gold dust and all kinds of stuff in which I never heard that before. I believed in 200 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:33,120 miracles, even being Orthodox and then reading the Bible is like I read about things that the Lord 201 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:39,760 was doing, people being healed and deliver, but I never about to a certain degree, the super, 202 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:47,600 supernatural. And Mike started kind of keeping track things that was happening with my friend 203 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:53,120 because she will get covered with gold dust. When she would share testimonies. Yeah. So she'd be 204 00:22:53,120 --> 00:23:00,080 talking about face to face encounters with Jesus or angels coming to deliver messages. And I thought 205 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:06,400 this is, I mean, I knew about deliverance and I knew about authority over evil spirits, but this 206 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:13,120 was something beyond anything that we had experienced and face to face with Jesus sounded a 207 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:20,240 lot better than face to face with some evil spirits. So I would tell Gordana, invite your 208 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:25,600 friend over, let's hear some more testimonies. And really that lit a fire, I think at least it 209 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:32,480 did for me, hearing the testimonies about what God was doing today. Yeah. And it caused us to 210 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:40,240 really pursue. So we, we set a course to try and pursue what God was doing, where we would, 211 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:45,200 where we could go, where people were talking about these things, conferences where people would share 212 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:54,080 about God doing the miraculous and it kind of took our, our passion and pursuit to another level, 213 00:23:54,080 --> 00:24:00,560 I would think. Yes. So you were going to conferences and going to more conferences and going to more 214 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:07,280 conferences. Yeah. And you heard them talking about the miraculous, but not how to get there. 215 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:17,360 That's it. Exactly. Yes. Then what happened? Well, after several years of, of pursuing in this way, 216 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:23,280 chasing after it, is anybody going to tell us how to get this walk closer to God that we're hearing 217 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:31,040 about? We were watching Sid Ross program one day and the guest happened to be Dr. Bruce Allen. 218 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:37,840 And, you know, in the past we'd heard guests and they would tell miraculous stories about being in 219 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:44,480 heaven and face to face with Jesus and things like that. But we would always hope that they would 220 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,320 pray a prayer of impartation, which we would come into agreement with. Extend your hand to the 221 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:58,400 television. Yes, extend our hands to the TV. Yeah. So, but this time Dr. Bruce, he told all these 222 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:04,000 wonderful stories, but then he said something very strange. He said, and now I'm going to tell you 223 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:10,320 how this can happen for you. I had never in the several years that we have been seeking, heard 224 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:16,400 anyone say anything even like that. It's like people had the stories, but they didn't have the 225 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:23,040 revelation to get the other person there. Yeah. Or, or if they did, they weren't sharing it. So 226 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:31,680 that's when Dr. Bruce gave a very simple explanation about waiting on the Lord. And that was life 227 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:39,280 changing for me. So after I heard his simple instruction, waiting on the Lord with expectation, 228 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:47,520 looking for God to show you something, I practiced that and I began to do that. And the very first 229 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:56,640 time that I did, I had an encounter, which was terrifying, but it was also real. So I realized, 230 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:02,400 okay, I've never experienced this before. This is kind of terrifying for me, but I had no knowledge 231 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:09,760 of spiritual things, the spiritual realm that the, that the realm of heaven is real. Um, had no 232 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,960 experiential knowledge of any of it. It was just a story, you know, previously. 233 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:22,960 Yeah. But as I began to wait on the Lord in prayer, then I began to experience his presence. 234 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,480 Uh, the very first time that I waited on the Lord, as Dr. Bruce described it on that television 235 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:36,240 program, uh, 45 minutes into waiting on the Lord, I had an encounter where I was, where I was taken 236 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:43,280 into the spirit realm with an angel in front of me. And it was terrifying at first, but it was 237 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,320 terrifying at first, but I realized the reason it's terrifying is because I don't know anything 238 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,840 about it. I've never experienced this before. I mean, let's face it, you grow up in kind of a 239 00:26:53,840 --> 00:27:00,160 dead church. You don't even feel God's presence. It's like during, you can't even call it a worship 240 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:05,520 service. We're all going to sing hymn number 305. Right. And as soon as we get through with that, 241 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,360 then we're going to do this or that. It's just, there was no, you know, presence of God, please 242 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:18,640 fall upon us. So I had no grid. Wow. So, so Gordana, at what point did you start to have this 243 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:27,040 kind of experience? Well, uh, my life changed in 11, 11, 2011. We went to a conference because 244 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,000 before that, even though my first walk with the Lord, you know, experience and knowing that 245 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,600 he lived inside of me, I have to know, because a lot of people think God lives in a building. 246 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,720 So knowing that and experiencing seeing a lot of the healing is in different things in the glory 247 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:49,520 cloud, but reading in the Bible and seeing this more stuff happen and, you know, being translated 248 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:55,520 different things. It's like, I started to die spiritually inside and we didn't have the 249 00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:01,440 fellowship at that time with other believers who were on the same path. Mike was taking us to 250 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:08,080 different churches, different conferences, and I was crying out to the Lord at this conference and 251 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:14,320 Mike didn't know about it. And I told the Lord, if you don't change my life and do something, 252 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,240 because I wanted, I knew there was more and I wanted to know, and I wanted to make sure it was 253 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:25,680 the real thing. I said that I'll just go back and be just like a regular Christian like before, 254 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:31,760 you know, just go to church and that's it. But I knew, like I said, the hunger inside of me. 255 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:37,360 I was crying as in if not, I'm just going back. So I was crying. I know somebody came by and touched 256 00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:45,440 me and literally the Lord put his hand inside of me and my life changed forever. That's when 257 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:54,960 he opened my eyes where I could see angels, demons, no fear at all, started taking me. I would 258 00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:01,600 literally, I gave myself over to the Lord. I did before, but this time it's like I literally gave 259 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,440 myself over to him. I said, I'll be a sign and a wonder, whatever you want to do with me and through 260 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:15,920 me, I am yours. A lot of people had a hard time seeing what the Lord was doing through me because 261 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:22,480 I was literally like a wonder to see what he did with my body. And for a couple of years, like I 262 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,120 said, we couldn't have anybody come over because some of the things he was doing, it was a little 263 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:35,280 too much for people and the Lord would not allow us to share to see. So he let me, I mean, literally 264 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:42,400 I could see demons or whatever sickness people had. I could see that over them. He would show me 265 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:49,120 diamonds over people's body to know which color, whatever tribe and different things. 266 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:56,000 He would give me words of knowledge, the power that was flowing through me. 267 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,840 Can I explain that a little bit? 268 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,360 Yes, go ahead. 269 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,720 So yeah, what Gordana is talking about was the Holy Spirit would fall upon her and she would shake 270 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:11,920 violently. She would feel his power and presence would like overtake her and she would shake in 271 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:19,040 ways that weren't, that didn't even look humanly possible. So it wasn't well received, but it was 272 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:25,760 received. She would like freeze in an ecstasy or whatever you want to call it. She would just like 273 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:33,120 freeze in position with her hands in the air and she would be like that for like hours. And her own 274 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:39,680 mom just really got really upset because she didn't understand it. But we would go to churches and it 275 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,720 wasn't accepted because people didn't have an understanding that the Holy Spirit could come 276 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:52,960 upon someone and cause that. So they would see it and sometimes they would think it was the devil. 277 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,480 So they would try and minister deliverance or they would think she had some kind of sickness. 278 00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,840 Yeah, seizure or something. 279 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:00,400 Yeah. 280 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:07,520 So they were trying to pray for her healing. And I remember once this big guy, he came over 281 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,480 to where Gordana was, I was about 20 feet away from her. And there were some women and they were 282 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,840 praying for her. And he came over and he chased them away. And I wondered what was going on. He's 283 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,960 chasing these women away. And I heard him say, if you can't recognize the difference between the 284 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:31,040 Holy Spirit and an evil spirit, you don't need to be praying for anyone. And he chased them away. 285 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,560 And then he came over and he rebuked me. He said, you need to protect your wife. 286 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:36,880 Was that an angel? 287 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,120 I was actually the head of the deliverance ministry of a big church. 288 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:41,680 Oh, okay. 289 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:42,240 Oh, wow. 290 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:48,240 But anyway, so then he went over and he got the prophet of their house and she came over 291 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,440 and prophesied over Gordana and was holding her feet and prophesying over her feet, which was 292 00:31:54,400 --> 00:32:02,320 an incredible scene and sight. But it challenged people when the Holy Spirit would fall upon 293 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:09,440 Gordana and she would begin to shake in such a violent manner. They didn't have a grid for it. 294 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:09,680 Right. 295 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:16,720 Yeah. And even though miracles were done during this time, it's like Gordana would grab hold of 296 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:24,080 someone. Well, I can let her tell the story, but she would grab someone and that electricity or 297 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:30,480 that fire would come upon them and they would be healed. Even with all that happening, people 298 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,600 still didn't have a grid for that. It was just too much. 299 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,040 It had good fruit. 300 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,400 It had great fruit. 301 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:41,920 Wow. Yeah. You know, discernment. We need better discernment when we can't recognize the Holy 302 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:48,880 Spirit. Because that is one of the signs biblically that you tremble at His word, 303 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:56,480 you tremble for fear of the Lord. Trembling is a scriptural thing and shaking all those things, 304 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,360 it's scriptural, but people are sadly biblically illiterate. 305 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,760 Yes. And we have a good history of it. I mean, you look at the shakers and the quakers. 306 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,920 Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. 307 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,720 They weren't called that for non-biblical reasons. 308 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,640 That's right. That's exactly right. So go on. Then what happened? 309 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,600 Well, like I said, I would try to control it. Like Mike said, we would go places and 310 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,760 no matter how hard I would try to control it, it just like I couldn't because I knew it was the 311 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,520 Lord. And you had given yourself to Him and allowed Him to make you a sign and wonder. 312 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:29,840 Yes. 313 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,280 So He took you at your word. 314 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,880 Yes. I had to think that some of the things, yes, it was challenging because like Mike said, 315 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,760 when the power would come and I would feel the electricity at nighttime, this will go on for 316 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:48,560 four or five hours or six hours. When we would go to meetings and sometimes when I would give 317 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,560 myself over, whether for healings, I would pray people, whatever, I would prophesy. Sometimes 318 00:33:54,560 --> 00:34:00,960 I wasn't able to speak. He would loosen my mouth. I could speak in tongues or I wasn't able to speak 319 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:07,040 period. But if I spoke English, I would tell people, you're going to conceive or you're going 320 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:12,960 to be married. A lot of times my arm would start just riding in the air to write books, 321 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:19,760 to write books when I would pray for people. And when I would come out of it, I would tell them. 322 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,800 And I forget about a lot of the stuff. A lot of times I'm under the spirit, so I don't even know 323 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,000 who I'm praying for. When you go through a little persecution and I would just ask the Lord, is this 324 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,520 really you? I really need to know that this is you, what's happening with me and with my body. 325 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,480 So we would go back to some of the churches where I pray for some of the people. And it's like, 326 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,440 Godan, I remember you prophesied, you said that I was going to write a book. He said, 327 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:52,080 I just want you to know my book's out and it's been published. So he was confirming everything 328 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,840 that he was doing through me. But sometimes people had a hard time receiving it. Now, 329 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:06,560 when it came to a prayer, Mike had to help me because the power was so strong on me, his presence. 330 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:14,400 Like I said, people will get healed right and left and delivered. But he always had to help me and 331 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:21,040 carry me and hold me up. And the same stuff happened at home. And he let me experience 332 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:27,600 a lot as far as the supernatural, seeing the angelic, seeing the demonic, no fear at all, 333 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:35,760 no fear at all. And I'm talking angels, seeing I'm talking to them, seeing angels in the sky, 334 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,800 he would write to me because I was telling him, I love you Lord, I love you so much. 335 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:48,800 He would write to me in the sky and he would tell me, I love you. He opened up, when I would read 336 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:55,040 the word, sometimes when I would read literally whatever I was reading, I just, I would see a 337 00:35:55,040 --> 00:36:01,120 display. We were driving, I think it was Ohio. And I just got through reading and Daniel, 338 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:09,760 literally names went all across the sky that I was just looking at all. You could literally 339 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:17,360 grab them and catch them all different sizes, names, last names, where I could read them in my 340 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:24,960 mind, but he would not allow me to say the name, few names to tell Mike, but just some of the things 341 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,000 that he showed me, it could be mind blowing to a lot of people, to be honest. 342 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,720 Were those names so that you could intercede for people? 343 00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:39,600 I really don't know because I was literally reading, he said, you know, this is not the time 344 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:47,760 to seal it up from the book of Daniel, the last chapter 12 for the knowledge to increase, 345 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,200 to go to and from. 346 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,440 That was a fun trip by the way. 347 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:59,920 I would ask him that, like Lord, because I prayed a lot, I would intercede every person that I knew 348 00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:08,320 or remember or always for co-workers, neighbors, families, church people. And a lot of times he 349 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:15,360 used to take me just to go and pray in different nations and release. I would literally feel the 350 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:22,960 power and blowing and releasing that glory over nations, over country. And I knew when I was 351 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:29,920 going, because I could feel the difference, whatever my body, which parts when I was either 352 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:39,200 walking or if I was flying, I could smell, I realized the different places I was going, it would shift. 353 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:46,240 And when he would speak through me, when I was speaking different language, I could always 354 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:52,640 know when it shifted. So that's when I would go to different places, if that explains. 355 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:59,040 So tell about the time you went to China that you shared with us the other day in class. 356 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:07,200 That's when I got filled with the Holy Spirit. When I was coming back home, 357 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,080 when I like on the day of Pentecost, when they were filled with the Spirit and spoke in different 358 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:19,600 languages. So we're coming back home and as soon as I entered the house, I felt something going on 359 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:26,240 inside of me in my stomach. I remember I said, first part of my life, I spoke in tongues, I spoke, 360 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:34,080 but not to this, this was a total different baptism. So I started to hold my mouth because 361 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,280 I felt something bubbling up and I'm keeping my mouth shut. And I thought, I better run upstairs. 362 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:45,040 I can't hold this. I feel like I'm going to explode the air that it's coming through up, 363 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,920 through me, through my mouth. I can't hold this. I'm going to explode. So as soon as I went upstairs, 364 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:57,520 you know, the different language, I spoke Chinese for about three days. 365 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,040 Three days. Wow. 366 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:10,400 All of a sudden, I remember one night here I am praying and I'm singing and I'm leading worship. 367 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,160 And I don't do that. In Chinese. 368 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:20,640 In Chinese, I'm very shy person. I don't sing. I do it in my own private time to the Lord. Mike's 369 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:26,080 the one that does the singing. So I'm a little bit intimidated to sing in front of him. I used to, 370 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:32,000 not anymore. So I'm singing in Chinese, my hands up in the air. I'm just like directing like the 371 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,040 choir, all of these people. I'm going to say there were probably about 50 people. So we're singing. 372 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,000 And you're seeing yourself. 373 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:40,560 Yes. 374 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:40,880 Where? 375 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:47,600 Here. I know I was looking, I was out like towards the window. I knew my body was there, 376 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,640 but I could see, I mean in China, because I could see myself, it was outside. 377 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,000 In the rice paddies. 378 00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:02,160 In the rice. I can feel the wet, the water underneath. And it's all like grass. I didn't 379 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:09,440 realize that it was rice the later on because it was tall. And we're worshiping the Lord. After we 380 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,480 worshiped, they were singing. This went on for a little while. It was towards in the evening. 381 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,440 And next thing I said, the police is coming. The police is coming. This is all in Chinese. 382 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:26,240 So we all started running. And then bang, I was back at home where literally it's like, 383 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:33,440 I could feel the water and everything on my feet, but I didn't look down to see somebody else. Did 384 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:40,720 you look to see if your shoes or pants? I just experienced it was. But your feet still felt wet? 385 00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:46,480 Oh yes. I felt that it was so real. Yes. And did you see this? Did you see her waving? 386 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:52,720 I did. I'd heard it was one of the strangest things up to that point I had ever seen, 387 00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:58,960 but she was standing in our bedroom and she was directing a choir and she was singing in Chinese. 388 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:06,880 Now she'd already been speaking only Chinese for several days. She couldn't speak English at all, 389 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:13,920 no matter how much she tried to either me or the kids or anyone else. And so I see all this going 390 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:20,240 on. So I realized she's somewhere else. I'm just seeing kind of the overflow of what's going on. 391 00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:25,680 And I think she spoke Chinese for three days at that time. And I think right after that, 392 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:33,520 my parents were supposed to come over for Sunday dinner and she was upset because she couldn't speak 393 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:39,760 English and my parents are definitely not on the grid for God doing that kind of miraculous. 394 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:46,160 But God loosed her tongue at literally the last moment, just as they stepped through the door. 395 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:51,760 But I thought, you know, I kind of wrestled with the idea. Well, you know, we don't know that this 396 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,880 is really Chinese. Maybe it's just some other tongue and you know, all the things that you think 397 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:02,720 about because to try and find a reason for a miracle to have happened, you know, the natural, 398 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:08,480 what's the natural reason. But about a couple of years later, we were in the Philippines and there 399 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:15,600 was a group of about 50 Chinese people and Gordana and Reshma Allen were praying for everyone. I mean, 400 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:22,240 there's like 400 people and they prayed for each and every person. And this Chinese lady comes over 401 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:28,320 to me and said, Oh, I didn't know your wife spoke Chinese. She just gave me a word in Chinese. And 402 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:36,160 I realized that it was indeed what God was doing because she was giving words in Chinese to people 403 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:42,800 as she prayed for some of them. Glory to God. So it was pretty incredible. That's marvelous. 404 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:49,760 So you were actually two places at once in the spirit. You had traveled to China while you were 405 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:58,080 standing in your bedroom. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And it's real. Yes. Very. It's absolutely real. And we 406 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:05,440 could tell stories for hours and hours of those kinds of realities. Why don't you tell us a couple 407 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:11,280 more of those kinds of stories? Because here's the thing. I want people to understand one thing. 408 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:17,040 And this is what I love about the two of you. Gordana, you're a hairdresser. Is that correct? 409 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,320 I used to do that. I had a stop. Yes. Okay. And Michael, your job was... 410 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,320 Repairing coffee machines and other types of vending equipment. 411 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:36,560 Okay. Rather ordinary, mundane kind of jobs. Yes. Yes. But because you were pursuing God 412 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:44,800 in your life, you were pursuing Him and making yourself available to Him. So through this 413 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:53,680 process of being very ordinary people, doing very ordinary jobs, God began doing extraordinary 414 00:43:53,680 --> 00:44:00,320 things through you, supernatural things through you, because you got the vision that that's what 415 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:09,760 He wanted to do. You read the Bible and said, yeah, we can do this. Do this in my life. I'm available. 416 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:15,920 Here I am. Here I am. Do it with me. Yeah. Many Christians are the mindset, especially in Bible 417 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:21,440 school. It's like, what is the main thing they kind of teach in Bible schools? Well, to be a preacher. 418 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:26,240 Sure. Go be a pastor. Go be a pastor. Go be a missionary. To be a missionary. But when you 419 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:30,800 get something that's out of the box, because something like this is something that the Bible 420 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,600 school does not teach you. It's the Holy Spirit Bible school that teaches you. Amen. And that's 421 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:42,400 and many don't know there's a real Holy Spirit Bible school. Amen. Because they're so used to 422 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:49,200 what they've seen or heard. Right. Yeah. But it's all about becoming available. Yeah. Saying, here 423 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:58,240 I am, Lord. And developing an intimate relationship with the Lord. Now, Michael, you tell some stories 424 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:05,920 about how you began to have experiences where you kind of started enjoying what you were doing for 425 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:13,520 your own fun. Yes. Amusement. You had to bring that up. Well, you know, I just want to bring 426 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:20,160 balance to people so that they understand the importance of keeping a right attitude. Can you 427 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:26,480 just tell us a little about that? Yeah. So even though all these things that we talk about, 428 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:33,280 the miraculous, the things of the Spirit, that is absolutely real, a believer has to keep anchored 429 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:40,400 in Christ. Amen. And the Lord had to teach me that lesson because I realized as I began taking steps 430 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:46,800 of faith and the Lord was like catching me into the spiritual realm to either teach me something 431 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:54,800 or give me a vision or a word that he would deliver to me. I realized the reality of that, 432 00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:02,800 but I also enjoyed being in that realm because the difference between the spiritual realm 433 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:09,360 and the natural realm is night and day. And when you hear people say that they died and they didn't 434 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:18,000 want to come back. And the reason being is that this world, this natural world pales in comparison 435 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,800 to the spiritual world. And I was experiencing that. And so do you want the whole story or do 436 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:30,720 you want the highlights? You can give whatever the Holy Spirit says to do. Okay. So I realized 437 00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:36,400 something that in the spiritual realm, anything is possible. That's why when you pray for people in 438 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,840 the spiritual realm, you often get great results because there is no baggage of doubt and unbelief. 439 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:49,040 You're in a different realm. You're in a different place. And so I realized having the Lord having 440 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:56,080 sent angels to take me places and catching me away places, I realized that it's possible to fly in 441 00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:02,880 the spiritual realm. And I just enjoyed that experience so much that when I would get caught 442 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:08,800 into the spiritual realm, rather than using that as an opportunity to worship or pray, which was 443 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:15,440 my original intention, I would think to myself, I'm just going to fly for a little bit and then I 444 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,720 will pray. But it never worked out that way. It just seemed like I would enjoy being in the spiritual 445 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:27,680 realm. I wouldn't do anything for the kingdom in that moment. I wouldn't pray. I wouldn't worship. 446 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,880 I wouldn't ask God for revelation. I would just enjoy the experience of being in that realm. 447 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,640 It's like you're awake for the first time in your life. That's how profound it is. 448 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:45,360 So as I was doing this one day, I was sitting on the edge of my bed. I realized all of the sudden 449 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:50,640 that I'm in the spiritual dimension because God would, he would allow that. I would focus on it 450 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:58,320 so that I could pray or worship. And an angel blasted into the bedroom and he was huge and he 451 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:04,720 was a warrior. I could tell he had power rolling off of him. I don't even know how to describe that 452 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:11,280 accurately, but it was like billows of power that were coming off of him and they were hitting me. 453 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:16,320 And it was very uncomfortable. And he looked very angry and he came over to where I was sitting on 454 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:21,920 the bed and he leaned down into my face and he said, quit seeking the supernatural to amuse 455 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:27,680 yourself. You'll open a door to the spirit of witchcraft. And then he was immediately gone. 456 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:33,920 And I felt like I'd been run over by a truck. It was that, that experience was a correction and I, 457 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:41,600 I cannot forget it, but it let me know the importance of regardless of what miraculous event, 458 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:49,360 what's going on, how fun it is, any of that, it takes a second place to the fact that the things 459 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:56,880 that we do, we must do for the glory of God, for his kingdom and at his direction. We only do those 460 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:04,160 things that we see the father do. Beautiful. Beautiful. So anchors, can you give us a couple 461 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:11,440 of ideas of the things that we need our listeners to understand to keep them anchored in the Lord 462 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,360 so that they don't get off into the wrong things. I mean, you've just given us one, 463 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:20,240 not to do something for your own amusement. Yeah. Right. What are the things I always say, 464 00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:26,560 just stay close to the Lord, stay in the word, stay in the word. Don't seek the soup. I know we 465 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:33,280 serve a supernatural God, but if you seek him, he will let you see everything you need to see. 466 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:42,720 He knows what's best for you. Don't seek experiences. Seek him. Seek him. That's it. 467 00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:50,160 Seek him and stay in the word. Yes. That's definitely Gordana's, that's her go-to thing. 468 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:56,240 It's like she spends a lot of time in the word. And so there is, if you're in the word and you're 469 00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:02,720 grounded in the word and you're constantly in the word, you constantly have that as your direction, 470 00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:09,520 your focus is the word. So you're going to be obedient to that word that you're putting before 471 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:17,120 your eyes. And it really does keep you grounded. Yeah. And also it helps to have someone maybe to 472 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:23,840 have accountability to. That's good. Yes. That can help you work through issues if you have them 473 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:30,960 figure things out, pray for you, that type of thing. Testing the spirits. Oh, that's a big one. 474 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:37,920 From 1 John 4, that's really important. Ask the spirit, did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? 475 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:45,840 Yes. I had an experience once when, well, actually more than once, but if this is the kind of life 476 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:54,880 that you're seeking to live like Philip or Paul or John, you see the kind of life that they had 477 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,600 and you read in the scriptures some of the things that were going on and you realize these guys 478 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:05,040 live totally miraculous lives. If you're seeking that, then you definitely have to have the 479 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:13,120 safety nets in place, which is knowing who you are in Christ, having discernment, discerning of 480 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:21,360 spirits and testing the spirits. Because, you know, when the Bible tells us that we should test the 481 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:30,400 spirits, it tells us for a reason because it is a possibility. It's not something so far-fetched 482 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,120 out there that, well, this will never happen. No, it wouldn't be in the Bible if it wasn't a 483 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:43,760 possibility for it to happen. So I had an experience once when I was in Australia and this being shows 484 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:53,120 up in my room and he just looks so majestic and so handsome and just so powerful. But there was a 485 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:59,440 check in my spirit. Something was not quite right. And so I'm looking at him and I'm thinking 486 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,840 something's not right. He's not glowing bright enough or something. I don't know what's wrong. 487 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:11,040 And so when I thought that, suddenly he's glowing brighter and he's smiling with a brighter smile 488 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:16,880 and he's looking even more just wonderful, which really made me uncomfortable then. 489 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:26,240 And so I said, did Jesus Christ come in the flesh? And his smile went to this incredible scowl 490 00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:31,440 that overtook his face and he got very angry and he said, why do you people always have to ask that? 491 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,560 And then he just disappeared. I didn't even have to rebuke him. He knew he was found out. 492 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,800 But that's the safety net God gives us. So we have to make use of it. 493 00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:52,160 Yes. Now just one more question. How long did it take for you to get to where you are now 494 00:52:52,880 --> 00:53:02,400 in terms of being in the flow of the supernatural? And it's your lifestyle now. So did it take weeks 495 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:10,800 or days or? Well, you know, having the experiences that we've had and the lessons that we've had, 496 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:17,040 I think that part continues. But the part about being launched into this as a lifestyle, 497 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:26,720 I think it was instantaneous once we had the passion to pursue it. Because with me, 498 00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:32,720 even though we had looked for a way to have that kind of life that we were hearing testimonies 499 00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:40,720 about, as soon as I heard Dr. Bruce's explanation, it was like two days later that this became 500 00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:46,400 lifestyle. I was spending time in my prayer chair, waiting on God and visions were coming. 501 00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:53,680 Okay. With Gordana, it was also kind of an instant thing because when she came before the Lord, 502 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:58,400 weeping and saying, you have to give me that life that I'm reading about in the Bible, 503 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:04,240 it was that day, 11, 11, 11, that the Lord put his hand inside her and just 504 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:12,160 shook her to the core and changed her life completely. But is it always every day 505 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:18,160 like this or are there days where absolutely nothing happens? Well, with Gordana, I would say 506 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:23,280 it's pretty much every day, pretty much every day. I mean, it's rare that the Holy Spirit doesn't 507 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:29,920 fall on her and her night times, I mean, even here at your place, it's like she's overwhelmed 508 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:36,880 by the Spirit and she intercedes and her body shakes under his power for hours. 509 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:43,120 And for her, it's pretty much every day. But I learned something about myself. 510 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:52,320 If I laden myself with too much work, even ministry work, it kind of, and I get over tired 511 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:57,520 from doing ministry work, then it pulls me back from the spiritual dimension a bit. 512 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:03,120 So I literally have to set work aside and come and have my quiet time with the Lord 513 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,560 if I want to walk in it every day. Wow. Yeah. 514 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:13,360 Wow. But you always kept a journal. Yes. And there were some journals, journal days where you 515 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:19,040 fell asleep? I tell people, keep a journal because it's like an expectation that God's 516 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:25,040 going to do something. And so you have your journal and your pen ready to write it out, 517 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:33,360 what God's going to show you. And this is for everyone. And my journey, even as God began to 518 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:39,600 show me things, was often, an entry in my journal would say, I fell asleep after 10 minutes of waiting 519 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:46,800 on God, or I wanted to wait on God, but I fell asleep. I have no recollection that I waited at all. 520 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:53,840 Or just all of these things kind of being a part of the journey, just trying and kind of failing. 521 00:55:54,640 --> 00:56:00,160 Because even though I wanted to pray and wait on the Lord, I just didn't have the physical strength 522 00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,960 so I would often fall asleep. I mean, this- Well, you were working 60 hour weeks. 523 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,480 I was working 60 hour weeks, yes. In your ordinary job. 524 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,080 In my ordinary job. But you were praying all through your ordinary job, praying for people 525 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,760 releasing the glory. I was. 526 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:20,160 Yeah. And God was doing things. He was doing things. And so I couldn't be disappointed 527 00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:25,920 that I could not stay awake during the times of waiting on the Lord because then during the day, 528 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,400 He would just show Himself in miraculous ways. He would- 529 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:31,440 Oh, that's awesome. 530 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:36,960 Miraculous things would happen. I know, Gordana, it's the same way, even in normal everyday life. 531 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:43,200 Some of the things she would come home and tell me about, well, a woman she was praying for, 532 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:49,040 you know, like Gordana shakes when the power of God comes upon her. So she's hugging a woman 533 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,120 and working on her hair, who was sick. 534 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:58,160 And all of a sudden this woman begins shaking violently and she does, what's happening to me? 535 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:04,320 And she says, it's okay. God's touching you. God's touching you. Don't worry. Don't be afraid. 536 00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:11,040 Or angels would show up to talk to her, even at the salon where she worked. And it was just, 537 00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,920 God was making Himself real. So I didn't feel bad for falling asleep. 538 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:18,400 Right. 539 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:24,000 And because I knew that He was kind of directing our journey and we were seeing just, 540 00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:28,960 even little miracles, you know, just let you know He's present. He's present. 541 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:29,840 Beautiful. 542 00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,040 It's been a great journey. 543 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:31,520 Beautiful. 544 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:37,200 I'm kind of at the falling asleep stage, you know. But one thing I haven't done is have a 545 00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:39,760 journal with a pen. Maybe that's- 546 00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:40,480 Yes. 547 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,720 I need to do that. And I've been purposely drinking the more water at night if I go to the 548 00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,720 bed. So you have to get up. That's a good idea. 549 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,640 You know, and then sometimes it's a stiff neck, you know, but I'd sit the alarm for an hour, 550 00:57:54,640 --> 00:58:01,040 you know, and I'll go off and say, okay, what did I accomplish? You know, I'm trying to pray, 551 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:07,520 just picture Jesus, you know, worshiping at the throne and, you know, and then the alarm goes off 552 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:15,120 or, you know, but, you know, I'm happy the winter fall season is coming on us where we don't have 553 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:20,640 all this extra outside work where it's so hot and you're so tired and all that. And I'm looking 554 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,440 forward to being able to spend more. 555 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:23,840 Amen. 556 00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,200 A little more time inside the house. 557 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:26,000 It's going to be good. 558 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:26,400 Yeah. 559 00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:27,840 Amen. How long do you- 560 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,800 But the point is diligence. Diligence, perseverance. 561 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:33,680 Obedience. 562 00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,600 Obedience. That's another key. Obedience. 563 00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,280 And anybody can do this. 564 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:39,840 Yes. 565 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:40,800 Anybody. 566 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:47,600 You know, Jesus said, you are my friends if you do what I ask you to do. You know, so it's- 567 00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:48,080 That's true. 568 00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,000 You know, and there's real keys there. 569 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:50,400 Right. 570 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:55,280 You know, it's just really, you know, in the scriptures, you read it, you know, the Lord 571 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,920 just giving those keys, it's just, it's all about him keeping him the center of it all. 572 00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:04,480 That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So Michael, you've written a number of books. 573 00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:05,840 I have written a few. 574 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:14,480 And how can people find those? Just give us a few titles. I love that one about, about prayers. 575 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:15,440 Violent prayers. 576 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,840 Yes. For your adult children, right? 577 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:23,520 Yeah. I actually had a publisher friend of mine talk to me about that. He said, that 578 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,680 is the best title I have ever read. 579 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:31,840 But, but yeah, so violent prayers for your adult children. It's just, we would go to 580 00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:37,040 so many meetings and even though we talk about things that are really inspiring sometimes, 581 00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:44,160 people can't really give themselves to that if they have issues, you know, like children 582 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,640 that need to be saved, loved ones that are having problems. So I thought I've got to 583 00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,320 write that book to let people know. 584 00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:50,640 Yeah. 585 00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:57,440 That there's, you know, God will answer their prayers. And so that book, Waiting on God, 586 00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:02,880 I tried to make that really simple and explain how, when we talk about waiting on God, what 587 01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:07,920 that means, how to see in the spirit, how to do spiritual warfare. Again, another very 588 01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,120 simple book. 589 01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:10,400 Angelic visitations. 590 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,400 Angelic visitations. 591 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,120 And they have keys, right? Spiritual keys to. 592 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,320 Yeah. And they have the keys to the spiritual world. 593 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,040 Keys, right? Spiritual keys to the. 594 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:26,880 Spiritual key, powerful keys to spiritual site. Yeah. That's another one. 595 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,240 And how do people get those books? 596 01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,120 They're on Amazon. I've got, I show them on our website, but I don't sell them through 597 01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:34,400 our website at this time. 598 01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,000 So you have links to their, to them on Amazon. And so what is your website? 599 01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:44,800 It's River of Blessings International Ministries. So if people type in River of Blessings, then 600 01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,840 one of our pictures will show up and they'll know they're on the right track. 601 01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:54,320 Okay. And we'll have your pictures on the little graphic of our podcast so people can 602 01:00:54,320 --> 01:01:01,920 recognize you. So we'll put links to those things in our show notes. Would you just, 603 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:07,920 we wonder, the other of you, would you pray for our listeners to have the kind of encounter 604 01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:12,320 that they are hungry to have with God? 605 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,000 Absolutely. Absolutely. 606 01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,800 Absolutely. So I'll pray and we can all agree for all the people. 607 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:25,760 Father in Jesus name, we just by faith right now, we release those things that you've given 608 01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:31,520 us and we release an agreement from God's own right hand that the people listening and the 609 01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:37,280 people that desire to be used of God in the most extraordinary ways, like Paul and the Bible, 610 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:43,600 father, we just release that grace upon them right now. And we just ask father that you 611 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:50,320 pour out your spirit exponentially on your people that love you and want to serve you and want to 612 01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:56,320 know you in these ways, father. We just release that grace upon them right now. Everything you've 613 01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:02,720 given us, father, I ask you to give it to them. And as you're listening to this, just receive it. 614 01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:07,920 Tell the Lord, yes, Lord, I want everything you have for me, everything you paid for me to have, 615 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:14,000 I receive it with gladness and just believe the Lord to do that now in Jesus name and father, 616 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:20,080 we thank you for doing this. We thank you for increase of dreams and visions and visitations 617 01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:27,040 face to face with the Lord Jesus, whatever you have for us, father, pour it out. We receive it 618 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:38,480 with gladness and we thank you for these things in Jesus mighty name. Amen. Amen. 619 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:44,640 If you enjoyed today's podcast, please subscribe, rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts or 620 01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:50,640 wherever you listen to podcasts. Your review helps the podcasting platform suggest this podcast to 621 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:56,000 other listeners who are also looking for a great move of the Holy Spirit. Check out our website 622 01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:02,240 at globaloutpouring.org to find out more information, read our blogs, connect with us and donate. 623 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:07,760 You can also browse our web store for life changing anointed books. Until next time, 624 01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:26,640 this is Sharon Buss and I'm Philip Buss. God bless you with this overwhelming loving presence.