Hello and welcome. You're listening to Faith to Live By. I'm Pam Christian, your host and
truth advocate. Each week I help us explore current events from a biblical and prophetic
perspective so we, as God's children, can know how He wants us to respond. My guest
today is Pastor Phil Hatsentor, a man whose work, research, and understanding of biblical
prophecy I highly respect. I have actually known Pastor Phil for several years because
he was one of the pastors at the church my family and I attended years ago. More recently,
he and his wife Tammy co-founded Influencer Church in Anaheim where he serves as the senior
pastor. I think you'll appreciate his take on current events and his interpretation of
China's place in the end times prophecy. But before I bring Phil on, I have some important
announcements. First, you may have heard me invite you to attend my online apologetics
class offered through Solid Life's Training Center. Registration for the fifth and last
course in this program is now open. The last course is a six-week class that starts on
July 1st on the topic of real science. I have Bob Dukow, a personal friend and fellow apologist
joining me for several of the upcoming classes as we talk about creation, the flood, cosmology,
archaeology, and also my class on biology and prophecy in light of the probability of
statistics. Even though this is the fifth course in the overall curriculum created for
both personal enrichment and ministry advancement, students who complete the entire five-course
curriculum of a total of 29 weekly classes are eligible for a certificate of completion.
So to encourage more of you to enroll, we've waived the annual registration fee, which
means you can take this last course for the price of the course alone, which is $99. That's
just $16.50 per class. And anyone who enrolls now with course five is eligible to take courses
one through four that will be available this fall, all without paying any registration
fee. So enroll now with course five and get your registration fee for courses one through
four also waived. The 29-week course is designed for you to take at your own pace, so long
as you complete all the classes within 58 weeks or less. Each class has a 20 to 30-minute
video, an online quiz, interactive assistance from my associate professor, Frank Kodaspati,
and upon completion, each student receives a certificate of completion from our Faith
to Live By training center. Also, if you are interested in taking this course from an accredited
school or to earn credits toward degrees, we are soon to have partner schools to accommodate
you. Whether you're interested in ministry development or personal enrichment, the Faith
to Live By training center certificate course on apologetics is an excellent way for you
to become convinced why the Christian faith, in contrast to all other religious beliefs,
is unique and distinctively worthy of your trust. The truth is all roads don't lead
to the same God and heaven. All religions are not equal, and truth is not relative.
Learn how to defend these truths to become more convinced about your own faith and better
able to share your faith with others. Visit the Solid Lives Training Center to register
for course number five using the link in the show notes. Be sure to register before the
deadline of June 28 to start taking your class, course number five, on July 1st. The second
and equally exciting and important announcement is about the details for our travel excursion
to Greece in October of 2025. Space for this guided tour is limited to 30 people, including
myself and my husband, for this amazing tour called the Steps of Paul. We'll go to many
of the same places the Apostle Paul went, enjoy the excellent Greek cuisine and hospitality,
enjoy impeccable accommodations, and be guided on a leisurely tour by a highly recommended
Christian tour expert. I promise you this will not be a trip where every minute is structured.
It's a vacation for goodness sakes, so free time is important. If you think you'd like
to go, now is the time to put your name on the list. Doing so does not obligate you in
any way. It merely allows us to be sure we can make our total and puts you on the list
to be first contacted in January or February next year when we need to confirm reservations.
Learn more about the trip by visiting my special page for my podcast listeners called Beyond
the Podcast. That's where I offer all sorts of bonuses unique for my listeners. Use the
link in the show notes to learn more about the 2025 Greece trip. Okay, as I mentioned,
my guest today is Pastor Phil Hotzenpiller. I told you a little bit about him and you
can learn more from his bio provided in the show notes. This is part one of my time with
him and I chose to break the interview up so I can address some of the otherwise overwhelming
world events taking place today in light of Bible prophecy. Here's part one of my interview
with Pastor Phil Hotzenpiller.
Pastor Phil Hotzenpiller, I'm so glad to have you on the program today. I've always admired
your work. I actually have known you for quite a while. You've been a pastor at a church
I attended here in Orange County and my husband was even part of an architectural decision
you had for your home a while back.
Well, it's great to be with you today and especially talking about a topic that is so
relevant and so today in our news. And I think you're certainly qualified and going to be
a great person to dialogue with on this subject of end times and prophecy and what's in the
headlines today and how does that relate to what's going on in our world?
Exactly. What I'd like to do is ask you your take on where we are today on God's timeline
starting with your overall concern for bridging the gap between ancient prophecies and the
complexities of our modern world.
Yeah, well, you know, everybody asks this question. Disciples started the question in
Matthew 24, you know, you know, when is the end and what's the sign of your return? And
so all of us kind of live in that world. One thing about prophecy is that it allows us
to to look from, you know, thousands of years ago, literally, if we just take Isaiah 2700
years ago, prophetic words that were given there and see their fulfillment today. So
for example, we are really in my opinion, we're we're close in terms of the return of
Christ. And when I say that, people always ask me how close I said, well, don't know.
But I can say this, that the prophetic clock, in my opinion, began to tick in 1948 when
Israel became the nation. But that was just really the beginning of prophetic fulfillments
that were going to take place in the years ahead and and bring us to where we are today.
So what you see in headlines today, we can match up with biblical prophecy very easily.
One of the hottest, most exciting prophetic events that's happening right now is the discovery
of the identification of the Red Heifer, which that seems so obscure people. But what what
are you talking about here? But that is really the most trending thing in biblical prophecy
today. Yeah. And I want to get to that in just a moment. But I want to start with what
could be very relevant for the audience. And you've said what I have said many times that
we are living in a dress rehearsal. And I said that especially with the events that
we were subject to in 2020 with the advent of COVID-19, that we are living in a time
of address rehearsal for the end times. Could you explain your perspective on that, please?
Yeah, well, when the pandemic came, I like to call it the pandemic. But when it came,
it didn't take us very long, a couple of weeks to realize that there was something wrong,
that numbers weren't adding up, that there was too much control happening. And I realized
it was really a dress rehearsal for a bigger event. One of the things that was most enlightening
was coming across the research of Bitterman and Bitterman's chart of coercion. He wrote
it in the 1950s. And after examining the interrogation techniques of the Chinese and the Russians
on airmen, and he came up with eight points. And when I looked at them, I realized they
were the exact eight points that were being used during the lockdown. Number one was social
distancing six feet. And the Chinese and North Koreans found that if you could isolate people
six feet apart, you didn't even have to put them in separate rooms. They would be literally
isolated. And I go through in my book, my latest book, and I talk about how each one
of those areas we saw played out in the pandemic. And I get great examples of those so that
people can see that this was a dress rehearsal for coming at a price for an end time scenario
that we can't expect sometime in the future. Yeah. You've talked about the prophetic clock
and I thought it was fascinating that the information was listed for the days of Elijah,
the temple being rebuilt, which has to do with the red heifer you mentioned, the rapture,
the great tribulation and the second coming. Can you talk a little bit about the days of
Elijah and where we are in the time clock? Well, one of the things that's very interesting
about Malachi four is that it talks about the fathers being restored to the children
and it doesn't mention mothers there, which is very fascinating. And I really, I think
we're seeing because of the gender confusion that's going on, we're seeing young men, especially
feeling like they have no place. They're just nowhere to go. And we're seeing in our church,
we're seeing more men coming now, engaging than ever before in our ministry, more fired
up for God than ever in any ministry I've ever been a part of. And at the same time,
we have a ministry to the public high schools where we go in and we do what's called the
Jesus club. We're having up to 250 kids at those at each one of those locations. I think
we're at three now or four. That's awesome. And up to 30 to 40 kids saved every week in
those. But here's the key. The majority of them are young men. They're not girls. So
I think we're seeing a fulfillment of this return of men coming back knowing that and
I think it took the, you know, basically the attack on manhood for that to come about.
You have nowhere to go, but the word of God, it really kind of makes a difference. So I
think that's a real sign that we're seeing today. And I've talked to other people across
the nation. They're seeing similar things happen among their men. It is very fascinating
to see what's happening and trending with our men, especially with all the gender dysphoria
and things that are going on. Now, we talked about being close to the end times and you
and I both will say, I'm not real sure. However, one of the clues I've often referred to is
the Hebrew calendar because the Hebrew calendar indicates that we are in the year 5784 since
creation and it's been the Jewish tradition to believe that the Messiah will come because
I didn't recognize his first coming, but the Messiah will come by the year 6,000. We're
only talking 216 years away. Yeah. And I think that's an interesting data point. I don't,
I don't want to put all my stock in that, but I think it's certainly one that we want
to put on the list and say, okay, that's interesting. What really is fascinating and you forced
me to jump into the red heifer a little bit here because my modem is who wrote in the
11th century is one of the most revered Jewish rabbis. He said when the 10th heifer is sacrificed,
the Messiah will return. Well, there's been nine red heifers from day one up through today.
So the 10th heifer that would be sacrificed would be the one that is currently in play.
Wow. So that would be an interesting, again, another data point to what you just said about
the timing of the return of Christ. Now, specific to the prophetic time clock and the rebuilding
of the temple and the sacrifice of the red heifer from a Christian perspective, knowing
that Jesus was the final sacrifice, I kind of view the rebuilding of the temple as blasphemy.
What's your thought on that? Well, no, the temple will be rebuilt. We know that because
second Thessalonians chapter two, verse two says the antichrist would take his seat in
the temple of God and declare himself to be God. Now, a lot of people can't figure out
how to make this work and why they should. Remember during the tribulation, there is
no Holy Spirit. The restrainer has been removed and the Jews are going back to the Old Testament
sacrificial system. And that's what you see playing out. That's why it's referred to as
the gospel of the kingdom. And that's why you don't see Christians, so to speak, in
the tribulation. What you see is you see primarily a Jewish revival. They're going back to the
kingdom. They're going back to fighting Christ in the sacrificial system. And then the mark
of the beast, obviously, is if you refuse that, then you suffer the consequences of
death and martyrdom. But it's very interesting. And the testimony during the tribulation period
is really threefold. It's the angel that circles the earth with the everlasting gospel, a very
interesting phrase not used in the New Testament outside of Revelation. Then you have the two
witnesses, probably Moses and Elijah or Elijah and Enoch, and they give testimony. And then
you have the 144,000 Jewish evangelists from every tribe giving this testimony during that
time. So you have three primary sources of evangelism that are coming forward powerfully
during that tribulation period, bringing people into the kingdom of God.
Well, when we're talking about the Antichrist and a one-world government and the mark of
the beast and all these things that really are an echo of what we've been experiencing
and becoming aware of with this desire for globalism and a one-world government, wouldn't
you agree that the spirit behind all of this is no different than the spirit that was behind
the Tower of Babel?
Oh, exactly. Well, really, the first human kingdom was Babylon. That was founded by Nimrod,
who's a type and a picture of the Antichrist. So we understand in the Bible that Babylon
is more than a geographical location. It's also a mindset and a practice of idolatry.
We know that because that Babylonian mindset runs all the way through the Bible, old and
new, and is culminated in Revelation 17 and 18, where it's called Mystery Babylon to Great
Whore. And the great whore is judged there and broken apart into three pieces. And I
dedicate a whole chapter to that where I talk extensively about Babylon and where is America's
place in the future.
Speaking of America's place in the future, when it comes to the rise of the Antichrist,
do you see the United States as being instrumental in laying the groundwork for this Antichrist
and one-world government?
Well, what I do is I take a fresh approach to answer your question. Most people say,
where is America? The biblical prophecy. If you Google search that, you'll find out
people say it's not, or they might give you an obscure verse in Ezekiel 38. What I did
was I looked at it from a different perspective and I said, what is unique in this world?
And that is city-state. So Washington, D.C. is a city-state. Vatican is a city-state.
And London, Inc. is a city-state. Most people know about the first two. They don't know
about the third one. That's a one-square-mile area in London. It's a financial center of
the world. Vatican is really the religious center of the world, and D.C. is the military
center. So I really believe these make up the great horror, Babylon the great horror.
So yes, America is in prophecy, but not in a way that we would like it to be. There's
many unifying things. One of them is if you go to D.C., you'll see a—you go to George
Washington's monument and you're immediately struck that it doesn't look like George at
all, unlike some of the other monuments. And you wonder why is it a 555-foot Egyptian obelisk
that honors the sun god? Right, right. Same thing in Vatican. They have one that was moved
there in the 13th century by the Pope. It's considered very sacred in Catholicism in terms
of, you know, the Vatican. And then you have the same thing over in London, Inc.—Clear
Patrick's Needle was moved there in the 1800s. All three of those have that obelisk that I
believe is a replica or a liken—at least likening to the Tower of Babel that you referred
to earlier.
Mm-hmm. Well, what do you see as the role of the United Nations in all of this, especially
when you're talking about Washington D.C., the Vatican, and London?
Well, I mean, the United Nations is, first of all, you know, a joke. I think everybody
believes it's a joke, knows it's a joke. It's a crooked and corrupt organization that
tries to lay a found work for one world government. I think it's definitely going to play a part
in that, but it's going to be a part. There's probably a lot more dangerous and larger ball
of evil than you can assemble in the United Nations.
Okay, so to wrap today's podcast up, I want to address the rebuilding of the Jewish temple,
about the rising tensions among the nations of the world, how God is reassuring us that
he is in complete control, and most importantly, how he is explicitly instructing us to look
to him and him alone in these times.
People spoke of the rebuilding of the third temple and shared that much of it is in place
for this effort to be successfully accomplished. The Red Heifer is an essential element needed,
according to the templeinstitute.org. Their website states, and I quote, In our own times,
the commandment of the Red Heifer takes on more and more significance, for without it,
the divine service of the Holy Temple cannot be resumed.
There is a spiritual renaissance today in Israel. After almost 2,000 years, Israel is
clearly moving towards the time when the Holy Temple on Mount Moriah, the prophesied third
temple, will be rebuilt.
More and more Jews are returning to the Torah, to the God of Israel, and the ways of our
fathers. And more and more are beginning to realize that the Holy Temple is the only solution
for achieving the elusive peace we all desire to see. For the Creator Himself, the Supreme
Author of Peace, has stated, The honor of this last house will be greater than that
of the first, says Hashem of hosts, and in this place I will grant peace, says Hashem
of hosts.
Haggai 2, verse 9
But the sages of Israel enigmatically stated that when the Messiah arrives, He will stand
atop the roof of the Holy Temple and cry out, Humble ones, the time of your redemption has
arrived. Thus the temple will be built before the Messiah arrives.
You heard me say to Pastor Phil that I take exception to the building of the third temple
and the reinstatement of animal sacrifices, because as a Christian, I know Jesus was the
last and final sacrifice which He accomplished on His first coming. But knowing God's people,
the Jews, don't recognize the Messiah has already come. And because there are scriptures
that speak of a third temple, I can see how a third temple and the animal sacrificial
system could be reinstated. But as end time scriptures explain, there is a lot that must
take place to put all things in order to fulfill end time prophecies.
So this caused me to do some end time refresher research. The Old Testament books that have
a lot to say about the end times are mostly Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Joel. Whereas
many of the New Testament books touch on the events that characterize the end times, the
book of Revelation stands out concerning end times.
And in my research, I found a nifty chart that categorizes the end time prophecies from
each of these books. And I offer you the link in the show notes. You'll see that it marks
the events that are required for the third temple.
Because of recent world events, all eyes have been on Russia, Ukraine, China, Israel, Iran,
and recently Egypt. So I'm going to do my best to put prophetic events in a nutshell
while asking you to keep current events in mind as I do.
Pastor Phil said the prophetic time clock began ticking in 1948 when Israel became a
nation. I understand what he means, but to be clear, prophecy often has more than one
fulfillment. Often it has a near, a mid, and a distant fulfillment. The near convinces
people the prophecy can occur just as God said. The distant is the complete fulfillment.
For example, both Pastor Phil and I see the year of 2020 until this time 2024 as a dress
rehearsal as he said for something more important. I've said a foreshadow or an imprint of the
last days that includes the tyranny of the beast, the false prophet, and the antichrist,
making these years of the near fulfillment to convince people what God said can indeed
happen will happen exactly as he is foretold. Pastor Phil has said the world is not falling
apart, it's falling into place. And this truly comes to light when we consider the
crux of the books of Isaiah and Ezekiel. The purpose of the book of Isaiah is to declare
the good news that God will glorify himself through a renewed and increased glory of his
people which will attract the nations of the world. A microcosm of Isaiah's message appears
in chapter 1 verse 2 through chapter 2 verse 5. The Lord's basic charge against the people
is they have received so much blessing and privilege from God and ought to be grateful
children, but instead they have despised the Holy One of Israel, resulting in judgments
upon them to bring them to repentance. Isaiah announces God's surprising plan of grace and
glory for his rebellious people and indeed for the world by reiterating what God promised
through Abram or Abraham. God's judgments were seen in allowing the people to go after
false gods and become subservient to pagan powers. God allowing Israel's natural enemies
to gain control over them, specifically the militant Assyrian army, was also used by God
as a judgment to take his people into exile to Babylon. Prophecies as recorded in the
book of Isaiah are recognized as fulfilled in the near, fulfilled in the mid-time, with
some prophecies yet to be fulfilled in a distant future. Ezekiel's message is similar to Isaiah's.
His purpose was to first pronounce judgment against Jerusalem and Judah. Then he provided
oracles against foreign nations. Just as Judah and Jerusalem are punished for impurity and
oppression, so too are the foreign nations. It's significant to understand the geography
of the areas mentioned in Ezekiel. Assyria comprises modern-day Iraq as well as parts
of Iran, Kuwait, Syria, and Turkey. Kush or Kush is the region that roughly corresponds
to modern Ethiopia. Put or Put refers to the same area as Libya. Persia is modern-day Iran.
Lod is now likely part of Turkey, but some place it in northern Africa. Elam in modern
terms borders southern Iraq, and Arab is believed to be Arabia. Then in chapter 38 of Ezekiel,
we learn about Gog in the land of Magog, a term that has been the focus of extensive
investigation without any appreciable consensus. Many interpreters understand this passage
to be a prophecy concerning an attack against Israel in a more distant future. In rabbinic
literature, Gog and Magog are often seen as leaders of a great attack on Israel in a future
Messianic age. Magog is seen as representing the Scythian people who ruled vast regions
of Asia north of the Black Sea and the Chasmian Sea, or what is modern-day Russia, Ukraine,
and Kazakhstan, who conquered the people east and south of the Black Sea, specifically modern
Georgia, Armenia, and Turkey. In the New Testament, Gog and Magog are names of nations led by
Satan to attack Jerusalem at the end of the thousand years. We see this in Revelation
chapter 20 verse 8. Also named in Ezekiel 38 are Meshach and Tubal, which are in Asia
minor. I'm sure you find it as intriguing as I do that the nations that have surfaced
in our headlines today are the same as those listed in the Old Testament as disrupting
nations of the end times. Then in Ezekiel chapter 40, we learn of Ezekiel's vision of
the new temple. Some interpreters understand Ezekiel's vision of restoration as a prophecy
that will be fulfilled literally, with a rebuilt temple and Israel dwelling in the land according
to its tribes, a future millennial kingdom on earth. Many who hold this position believe
that literal animal sacrifices will be offered, but that in the future millennial kingdom,
they will function as reminders of the complete and sufficient death of Christ, a function
different from what they had in the Old Testament. Others see this vision of a new temple and
a renewal of the land of Israel as an extended detailed metaphor predicting the presence
of God among his people in the new covenant age, that is, God's presence in the church.
Another view is that the vision predicts God's presence among his people in the new heavens
and new earth, not as physical details that will be literally fulfilled, but as symbolic
indications of the great blessings of that future age. And finally, it's possible that
there are both literal and symbolic elements to this vision. Almost all interpreters agree
that Ezekiel chapters 40 through 48 is one of the most difficult passages in Scripture.
There are many things we can only do our best to study to understand and then hold loosely
and just simply wait to see how God will fulfill his word with the unrelenting expectation
that he absolutely will. According to Isaiah and Ezekiel, all nations of the world are
taken into account because God will glorify himself through the renewed and increased
glory of his people by way of God's judgment, which will attract the nations. And this is
exactly what I believe we've been living through since early 2020. Not that we're living in
the last judgment or the last of the last days, but a time of judgment to realign the
world events according to God's plan and to renew the minds and hearts of the people all
over the world as to the certain existence of God and that he is who he says he is. With
next week's podcast, I'll pick up my interview with Pastor Phil specific to China in biblical
prophecy. But we have to understand it's not just one nation we need to keep our eyes on,
but a conglomerate of nations that are making and breaking alliances, calling for wars and
calling for peace all at the same time. We have to understand this is of the enemy to
cause confusion and chaos and to wear us down so we will give up to their tyranny. We must
not listen to the enemy, but to what God says both in his written word and in his prophetic
word. So to be as timely as possible, I want to bring your attention to what God recently
said through Hank Kuhneman. He spoke at Oasis Church with the word specific in part for
Tim Sheets and his daughter Rebecca, but as Tim points out, this word is for the corporate
church. Tim's brother Dutch shared the prophecy on his program, Give Him 15, and it is exceedingly
encouraging because of this word. Tim Sheets has called for a fast beginning today, May
29, 2024, to last for one week. I hope you will join in this effort of praying and fasting
to see God miraculously intervene in our lives. By all means, use the link in the show notes
to hear the prophecy for yourself. God is stern in instructing his people to listen
to his voice in this hour and to look for his intervention at this time. He has promised
us miracles, signs, wonders, the return of prodigals, and a great and mighty revival.
I've said before, we are living in both the greatest and the most terrible times the world
has ever known. With this backdrop of both occurring simultaneously, it is even more
crucial that each one of us make a clear and public declaration with who and what we want
to be aligned. God and all that is good and leads to life, or Satan and all that is evil
and leads to death. Join me next week for part two of my interview with Pastor Phil
Hodson-Piller, who is helping us understand the times so we as God's children can know
how God wants us to respond. If you like what you hear from me with this podcast, I highly
recommend my book series, my award-winning blog, connecting with me on social media where
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Depending upon where you listen to my podcast, if you've enjoyed today's episode, please
subscribe, rate, and review the show on iTunes, Spotify, Google, or wherever these features
are available. Your review helps the show reach more people and spread the gospel, and
it helps people learn how to better apply their Christian faith. I hope you'll join
me next week and tell your friends and family to listen right here on Faith to Live By,
where we learn how to gain spiritual victory over life's issues. Until next week, I'm
Pam Christian, asking you to remember Christ died for us. The least we can do is live for
Christ. Amen.