1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,960 that said, OK, we're in the rubble of deconstruction. 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:03,240 It's not a bad thing. 3 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,880 But now we have this huge task as a generation to rebuild. 4 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,920 And thankfully, we have a blueprint for that 5 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:09,880 in the word of God. 6 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,240 Natalie Runyon, it is great to have you back here on Charisma. 7 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,880 And it was just not too long ago that you and I 8 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,600 talked for the first time. 9 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,200 And that time was about your book, 10 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,920 Raised to Stay, which was about identifying church hurt 11 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,520 and how we don't need to necessarily run away. 12 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,160 But we can be healing agents. 13 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,440 And really, since then, we have seen scandal 14 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,680 after scandal in the church. 15 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,760 We've seen the IHOP KC issues with Mike Bickel 16 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,360 and now recently with Robert Morris at Gateway Church 17 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,480 and the issues that have come out. 18 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:45,960 But God prompted you ahead of time 19 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,240 to write your latest book on the heels of Raised to Stay. 20 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,880 And now it's the house that Jesus built. 21 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,960 And so Natalie, I got to ask you, 22 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,640 why did you feel such an urgency to get this book out so quickly? 23 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,280 It was so interesting how Raised to Stay hadn't even 24 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:03,400 gone to edits yet. 25 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,720 And I was asking the Lord, just in my quiet time, 26 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,200 if I were to put out a second book later down the road, 27 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,680 what would that second book be? 28 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,520 And this phrase, the house that Jesus built, 29 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,920 just kind of was dancing around in my spirit a little bit. 30 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,440 And so I actually looked up the story 31 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:20,920 of the three little pigs. 32 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,480 And I was like, because when you think about building houses 33 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,600 and an enemy, you think of this nursery rhyme 34 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,760 that we grew up hearing about all the time. 35 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,880 And so there is actually a moral to this story 36 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,600 was that these three little pigs were tasked with building 37 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,760 houses that would protect them from the enemy. 38 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,800 But two of them wanted to go play. 39 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,280 And so they built fast and they built with bad materials. 40 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,560 And as a result of that, the one who built not in a hurry, 41 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,080 the one who built with good materials with the brick 42 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,880 is the one that actually could withstand 43 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,640 the hot air of the enemy when that wolf came in to huff 44 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:51,920 and puff and blow the house down. 45 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,640 And I started thinking about our churches 46 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,960 and this deconstruction movement that we've been in 47 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,840 and thinking, you know, there have been some foundational 48 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,680 issues where we as church people have built fast 49 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,920 and we've built on bad foundation. 50 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,720 And now we're seeing the enemy come in and huff and puff 51 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,480 and blow our churches down through moral failures, 52 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,640 sheep that are being abused, all of the things that led us 53 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:15,760 to this deconstruction. 54 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,240 So throughout all of scripture, God allowed his people 55 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:20,320 to tear things down. 56 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,440 But there was always a blueprint to rebuild. 57 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,440 And so I wanted to write a book that said, 58 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,080 okay, we're in the rubble of deconstruction. 59 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,360 It's not a bad thing. 60 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,000 But now we have this huge task as a generation to rebuild. 61 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,040 And thankfully we have a blueprint for that 62 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,360 in the word of God. 63 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,000 Yeah, you know, a couple of years ago at my parents' house, 64 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,040 there was an issue with the foundation 65 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,880 in part of the house. 66 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,280 And they actually had to have somebody come in 67 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,680 and figure out how to shore up the foundation 68 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:47,840 and fix everything. 69 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,480 And that was a big, expensive process. 70 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,320 And it wasn't because the foundation was previously bad. 71 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,960 It was just that it was very, very old and things had decayed. 72 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,440 So we need to pay attention to our foundations all the time 73 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,800 and make sure that everything's are cleared out. 74 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,160 But what are some of these foundational things 75 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,080 that we really need to make sure that we are building upon? 76 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,560 And what are some of the things that we've built upon 77 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,320 that are crumbling? 78 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,520 Well, in the raised estate community, which is online, 79 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,440 we have a very robust family of about 180,000 of, you know, 80 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,000 stayers who are very honest with me about the reasons why 81 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,960 they have gone through a deconstruction process 82 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,960 or why they've left their faith altogether. 83 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,680 And a lot of it came down to being severely disappointed 84 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,040 and hurt by people who should know better 85 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,120 and are behaving badly through abuse, celebrity culture, 86 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,160 not being integrists with their finances. 87 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:43,680 There are so many things that, like you said, 88 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,560 the foundation could have started well, 89 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,480 but over time it has become decayed 90 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,160 due to us not taking care of it. 91 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,160 And so when I looked at the different things 92 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,480 that people were telling me, 93 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,280 we really came down to spiritual abuse. 94 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,080 It came down to an orphan spirit 95 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,000 that a lot of our pastors and leaders have come under 96 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,120 when they haven't reached celebrity status. 97 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,640 We've got a lot of consumers in the kingdom now 98 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,320 who want the church to work for them 99 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:07,440 and not the other way around. 100 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,160 And so those foundational practices I talk about 101 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,840 in those first four chapters of like, what took us down? 102 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,480 What is it that made us unsteady? 103 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,200 And then in those last eight chapters, 104 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:19,520 I talk about the book of Acts. 105 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,640 And I go into Acts chapter two, 106 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,280 which we love the second chapter of Acts as Pentecostals 107 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:26,320 because we're like, man, there's like tongues of fire 108 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:27,920 and they're speaking in tongues. 109 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,760 But really when Peter stands up 110 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,600 and he begins to preach this message in the upper room, 111 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,440 what he's doing is he's laying out a foundational surface 112 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,200 for the very first church, which was repentance, 113 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,360 reconciliation, forgiveness, communion, worship, 114 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:44,200 the word of God. 115 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,320 And so when we look at all of those elements, 116 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,480 we think, wow, it's actually not having to recreate the wheel. 117 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,160 If we as a church just went back to that second chapter 118 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,960 of Acts and saw what was growing the church daily then, 119 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,240 what if we were to go back to those foundational basics 120 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,280 in our church today? 121 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:01,760 And just as it says in the message translation, 122 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,280 the people on the outside looked within the walls 123 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,240 of the upper room and generally liked what they saw. 124 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,840 Like, great would it be if the world looked 125 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:12,920 into our churches and generally liked what they saw? 126 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:13,760 Yeah. 127 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,960 So we focus so much on appearances in the church. 128 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,400 There's a lot of facade. 129 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,600 In fact, that's actually one of the biggest complaints 130 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,720 that I believe people of the world have is that, 131 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,040 Christians, they just wear masks all the time. 132 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:27,920 They're not real. 133 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,720 How do we show the reality or the realness, 134 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,120 the authenticity, but still the joy of the Lord? 135 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,160 Well, I think that's why social media 136 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:41,480 is such an interesting space 137 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,280 because there is a lot of chatter of just being honest. 138 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:47,440 Like, let's just be honest for honesty sake 139 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,760 and let's be vulnerable for vulnerability sake. 140 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,600 And what can happen is if there's not enough healing 141 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,400 in those spaces, it can just become a cesspool 142 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,720 of our wounds kind of meshing together 143 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,360 and creating this nasty abyss of just woundedness. 144 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,760 But when we marry honor and honesty, 145 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,720 and we say, it's okay to be honoring to the leaders 146 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:08,760 that have gone before us, 147 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,040 honoring of those who have paved ways for us, 148 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,680 but also honest that there have been some things 149 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,640 that were allowed in the church at the hands of those leaders 150 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,520 and even at our own hands that have wounded people. 151 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:22,800 So how do we talk about that as the church 152 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,120 in a way that still honors the Lord, 153 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,480 still honors the organization that is the church, 154 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,000 that is Jesus's idea, 155 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,920 and then also honors those who have been wounded 156 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,400 and who have been victims and not silence their stories, 157 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,800 but also being honest. 158 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,120 And in this space where we can say, we know that hurt 159 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:43,760 and this should have never happened 160 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,320 and sitting with empathy for both places, 161 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,080 because I know a lot of shepherds right now 162 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:49,720 who aren't hurting their sheep. 163 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,200 I know a lot of good shepherds, 164 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,280 there's more good shepherds than bad shepherds. 165 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:56,760 And they're having to kind of take on the blunt, 166 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,120 the brutal force of a generation 167 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,560 who's been wounded by the few. 168 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Yeah, you know, as pastors, 169 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,720 they're sometimes guilty by association 170 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,040 and just by being a pastor. 171 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,720 I know that hurt people hurt people. 172 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,360 And so if they go from one church to another, 173 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,640 they're not necessarily healing as they should. 174 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,920 And so they'll sometimes take their offense 175 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,200 and put it and project it onto a pastor 176 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,040 who's not an issue. 177 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:29,280 But there are issues. 178 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,920 I mean, we've had some major ones come out 179 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,320 in the news recently, 180 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,640 but those churches are still filled with people 181 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,080 that love Jesus. 182 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,680 And, you know, do you throw the baby out with the bath water? 183 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,640 Do you clean the baby? 184 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,120 I mean, how do you deal with this 185 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,720 whenever you have a leader that's fallen? 186 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,440 What happens to the sheep? 187 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,920 Well, I've noticed that there are some 188 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,040 who are looking for a reason to completely walk away. 189 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,920 And all it will take is one moral failure 190 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,240 of a leader they thought was infallible 191 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:04,680 to give them permission to say, 192 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,520 well, I knew the church was crazy. 193 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,720 I knew all the leaders were bad. 194 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,000 They're no different than the world. 195 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:10,920 I'm gonna move on. 196 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,840 And that's a very small percentage of people, I believe, 197 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,320 who are in that camp. 198 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,920 What I believe is happening now 199 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,560 is that the church has been so hungry for revival, 200 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,720 so hungry for a move of God that isn't just encounter, 201 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,680 but also biblical formation and understanding 202 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,080 and seeing the great commission come to fruition 203 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,840 in our time, that people are willing 204 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,920 to not throw the baby out with the bath water, 205 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:34,240 but they're a little bit more willing 206 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,160 to have their foundations checked. 207 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:37,960 So as these leaders are falling, 208 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,600 you're noticing other pastors saying, 209 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,280 whoa, I don't want that to be my legacy. 210 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:43,640 I don't want that to be my story. 211 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:44,480 Because you have to remember, 212 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:45,960 if the enemy can't kill us 213 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,920 and he can't basically destroy us, 214 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,040 he'll try to steal our legacy. 215 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,880 And that's really the unfortunate thing 216 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:53,960 of what's happening right now 217 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,200 is men who have had legacies and ministry 218 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,120 are losing those legacies 219 00:08:58,120 --> 00:08:59,560 and being known for moral failures 220 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:01,600 and not all the good they did in the kingdom. 221 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,160 So we're seeing pastors say, whoa, 222 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,240 I don't want that to be my legacy. 223 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,760 Come in and we're gonna hire outside groups 224 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,120 to do a good check on us, to check on our staff, 225 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,680 to check on our foundation 226 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:14,640 so that we can be up for the next 100 years. 227 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:15,480 Yeah. 228 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,720 So what are some things that we can do to protect ourselves 229 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,720 or to let's say, shore up that foundation ahead of time? 230 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,400 Because you just mentioned about people coming in 231 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,280 and checking on things, 232 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,000 but I'm thinking about a small church, 233 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,400 the pastor's maybe got 150 people there. 234 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,480 If he's doing everything he can to make sure 235 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,680 that the widow is being taken care of, 236 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,800 that the poor person is good, 237 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,880 that the people that are doing well in the church 238 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,360 are leading and growing in the Lord, 239 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,200 they can't necessarily bring in an outside audit and stuff. 240 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,880 But I'm thinking about those pastors as well. 241 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,840 How can they connect to this message? 242 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:55,680 Well, first of all, 243 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:58,040 I think we all need to do individual foundation checks 244 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:58,880 in our own life. 245 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,680 I ask why this scripture is search my heart, oh Lord, 246 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,480 and show me if any wicked ways in me. 247 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,560 And I'm gonna worry about the plank in my own eye 248 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:07,920 before I worry about the speck in someone else's. 249 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,640 So if my foundation as the ecclesia, 250 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,600 as the call it out one, 251 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,600 part of the global church is not healthy. 252 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,840 And then I go into a church building 253 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,160 with a bunch of unhealthy little ecclesias, 254 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,680 then we are probably all going to end up 255 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:24,400 at each other's throat for the end of this time 256 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,920 of being a Christian on this earth. 257 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,520 So really we all have to start on our own foundations. 258 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:29,800 Am I built on Jesus? 259 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,360 Do I offer reconciliation and forgiveness? 260 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:33,720 And am I worshiping? 261 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,840 Am I doing everything I'm demanding from the church? 262 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,800 And then second of all, for us and any leader, 263 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,360 the biggest thing is just, am I pointing people to Jesus? 264 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,560 Am I doing everything in the scriptures 265 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:45,680 that Jesus was doing, 266 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:47,800 that he was encouraging his disciples to do? 267 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,640 And if I can say, yes, I'm doing all of those things, 268 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,800 then when people come in with a critical spirit, 269 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,760 which is different than a foundational check, 270 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:55,760 but a critical spirit, 271 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,880 we're able to show them this list of, 272 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,000 look what we're doing in our city 273 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,040 and look what we're doing in our Judea and our Samaria 274 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,040 and to the ends of the earth 275 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,360 and look how many people are coming to know the Lord. 276 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,720 And you're just every day getting back on mission 277 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,240 with that great commission and that great command 278 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:10,920 of loving God and loving people. 279 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,480 And that's really what I'm looking for as a lay person. 280 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:15,800 When I walk into a church, 281 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,680 are they on mission with the great commission 282 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:20,520 and are they offering me the great command? 283 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,600 And are they offering me opportunities 284 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,040 to do the same in return? 285 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,600 And so that's a basic start, right? 286 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,280 Where we can just look within our own hearts, 287 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:29,440 am I doing those things? 288 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:30,760 And then I'm walking into my church 289 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,600 and I'm saying, they're doing those things. 290 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,160 And also remember this, it's not the shepherd's job. 291 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,640 It is not the lead pastor's job 292 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,320 to make sure that all of the Christians are behaving. 293 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,400 His job is to protect the sheep 294 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,440 and to make sure that the sheep are being fed. 295 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,080 And so we all owe it to each other to be responsible 296 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:48,760 and to be our brother's keeper. 297 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:49,960 Yeah. 298 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,560 So Natalie, as you were putting together this book, 299 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,200 the house that Jesus built 300 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,320 and as you're working on this blueprint, 301 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,720 tell me about the research that you've done 302 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,680 and as you're putting everything together 303 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,520 to help us kind of see what this needs to look like today. 304 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,400 Well, I learned more about construction 305 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:10,920 than I ever wanted to learn. 306 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,160 We were actually ironically building our house 307 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,600 when I was writing this book. 308 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,160 And what was so crazy about it is that I wanted to move in 309 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,800 a lot sooner than we did, because we were moving states. 310 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,320 And I was talking to our main contractor. 311 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,000 And I said, I just want it to get done faster 312 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,000 than it's getting done. 313 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,160 And he looked at me and he said, 314 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,080 ma'am, would you like this house built quickly 315 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:33,960 or would you like it done safely? 316 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:35,560 And I, from there on was like, 317 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,520 I'm actually intrigued by this. 318 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,640 And so what I started doing is looking at different terms 319 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,680 in the construction world when you're building a house. 320 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:45,280 And one of those researches that I did 321 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,640 was on this concept of rubblization, 322 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,560 where you take the foundation of an old entity 323 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:53,600 or an old building and you actually use what's left over 324 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,600 to create the foundation of the new thing 325 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:56,760 that you're building. 326 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,200 And what I loved about that is that Jesus has already come in 327 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:01,440 and done the work. 328 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,440 So we're not like having to build anything new. 329 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,200 We are literally taking what Jesus has given us and saying, 330 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,040 okay, there's some things that we need to maybe detangle from 331 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,320 that the world has added into this, 332 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,440 but now we're gonna start rebuilding with Jesus. 333 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,480 And so I just went through the whole construction process 334 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,880 of what it looks like to lay down a floor plan, 335 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,960 a framing and all of that, 336 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,280 and how important spiritually that is in our own lives 337 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,560 to have that framework in our life 338 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:28,360 that is the word of God, to have the foundation of Jesus, 339 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,880 to have a floor plan that is invitational 340 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,960 and laid out well so that people see our hearts 341 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,520 and they see our minds and our souls 342 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,560 and we're not just religious people running around. 343 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:39,120 And so I did a lot of that research. 344 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,200 And then I did a ton of research on the book of Acts 345 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,280 and what happened when everyone in that upper room 346 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,520 left the upper room, because thank God they left 347 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,800 the upper room so they could take the church beyond. 348 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,560 And all of the different people who were involved in Acts 349 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:54,400 and taking this church out to a world, 350 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,200 the different relationships that were involved 351 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,160 from Paul and Silas and Luke and all of the women 352 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,360 who were included in that with Lydia and John Mark's mom, 353 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,240 Mary and even Dorcas and Aquila and Priscilla 354 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,760 and how so many people came along to help create 355 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,280 this framework that is now the church. 356 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,640 Yeah, that's so cool. 357 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,200 Cause you can look through the Bible 358 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,880 and see how things are actually laid out in the foundation 359 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,640 and you just have to put on those glasses 360 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,680 of a blueprint maker and as a construction worker 361 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,280 and see, oh, this does make sense. 362 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,600 And the Old Testament is so rich in it as well. 363 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,320 I mean, you think about Nehemiah, 364 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,720 like the builders had a hammer and a sword in their hand, 365 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,040 one to build and one to fight. 366 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,840 And I see that for us now is we're the ready builders 367 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:40,720 with Jesus today. 368 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,840 Like we're defending some people, 369 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,080 we're defending some things, but we're also building 370 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,440 and he's tasked us for both. 371 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:48,520 Yeah. 372 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:49,880 So you mentioned the Old Testament. 373 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,880 I think it's super interesting that the Bible 374 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,680 is very specific on the dimensions and the decorations 375 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,400 for the temple and the tabernacle. 376 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,400 As you're looking at blueprints for your house 377 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,560 and you're looking at blueprints in the Old Testament 378 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,040 and the New Testament, what are some other things 379 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,320 that have surprised you that you were like, 380 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,200 I've never seen that as a building implement 381 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,000 or a foundational aspect before? 382 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,640 I mean, you just think about like all of the different 383 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,440 individual beams that have to be put in 384 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,560 just for there to be stability for the other beams 385 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,120 that are gonna be coming in. 386 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,880 We look at a house and we say, wow, that's a beautiful house. 387 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,120 Kind of the way we look at a church, 388 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,120 we think that's a massive cathedral, 389 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,080 but we forget that there are these individual 390 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,200 single unit things like the gyms in the New, 391 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,080 in the Old Testament, the different carpet colors, 392 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,920 the curtains, there are things that are strategically placed 393 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,800 within the walls that you can't even necessarily see 394 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,400 right off the bat that are there for protection, 395 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,200 beauty, for character, to tell a story, 396 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,080 to provide historical context. 397 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,120 And so I think for the average person, 398 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,960 they look at a church and they see four things. 399 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,920 They see the outside structure, they see the inside decor, 400 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,640 they see who's on the platform 401 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,120 and they see who has the authority. 402 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,760 And while all of those four things 403 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,800 are absolutely important, 404 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,880 that's not actually what's keeping the church up. 405 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,040 What's keeping the church up is the prayers of the people. 406 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,200 It's the intercession. 407 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,920 It is the things that we are doing behind the scenes 408 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,160 that nobody gets a Facebook highlight reel on, right? 409 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,600 And so I think that's what has shocked me the most 410 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,520 is like we ignore and potentially don't take care of 411 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,760 the things that are hidden because it doesn't look attractive, 412 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,640 but it's actually what's keeping us up. 413 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,360 Yeah, the foundations and the structure, the bones of a house 414 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,160 is really important. 415 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,760 And I've heard people say that house has good bones. 416 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,040 It's got good structure, it's got strength, 417 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,120 all the supporting walls are in the right places 418 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,600 and doing what they're supposed to be doing. 419 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,000 And yeah, those things don't get seen all the time. 420 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,360 You mentioned earlier about your community, 421 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:07,800 the raised to stay community, the stayers, 422 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,720 and there's like 100,000 some people in this, 423 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,440 which is that's amazing that that many people 424 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,520 have connected to this message. 425 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,120 You mentioned about deconstruction. 426 00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:19,120 And I think we talked about that 427 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,200 in our previous conversation as well. 428 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,640 And deconstruction is something that is, 429 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:27,600 it's different than demolition. 430 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,240 A lot of times people deconstruct their faith, 431 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:31,720 but really they're just demolishing it. 432 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,080 And they're not actually doing it 433 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,680 with the intention of building it back up again. 434 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,800 Can you talk about what a healthy deconstruction is? 435 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,000 Well, I've had to talk a lot of pastors off the ledge, 436 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:43,840 excuse me. 437 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,560 I've had to talk a lot of pastors off the ledge 438 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,320 because they hear this deconstruction 439 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:48,960 and they're like my parents age and they think, 440 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,640 well, that must mean deconversion. 441 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:51,480 And it's like, no, 442 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,120 deconstruction isn't necessarily deconversion. 443 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:55,480 It can just be a detangling. 444 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,600 It's things that people have placed on us 445 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,680 that aren't even scriptural or aren't the Lord. 446 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,640 And so in my foreword of raised to stay, 447 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,040 Lisa Bevere says that deconstruction 448 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,680 without any plan to rebuild is just destruction. 449 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,880 And so we really have to search our own hearts 450 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,920 when we're going through our own faith detangling 451 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,920 to say, okay, am I doing this 452 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,000 because there are some things that I'm carrying 453 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,360 that God never asked me to carry like shame, guilt, 454 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:23,640 things about my sins I know are forgiven 455 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,680 that people keep putting on me, 456 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,200 different things that we were raised in maybe as kids 457 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,040 that actually aren't even scriptural. 458 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,920 And then doing what you just talked about 459 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,960 where we just demolish our faith and walk away altogether. 460 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,160 And what's hard about having a social media presence 461 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,800 like the one that I have is that I have all spectrums 462 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,520 and everyone feels validated 463 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,640 in why they did it the way that they did it. 464 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,920 And so really that's why we need wise counsel in our lives, 465 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,240 mentorship, discipleship, pastors, shepherds 466 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,080 that are healthy to help us discern 467 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,000 if we are really gonna rebuild 468 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,920 or if we're gonna slowly walk away altogether. 469 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,360 Yeah, and we want people to rebuild, obviously. 470 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:07,000 That's the big thing because we don't want anybody 471 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,320 to walk away from the Lord. 472 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,560 But one of the big reasons that people would walk away 473 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,840 from the Lord is because of spiritual abuse 474 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,720 or physical abuse, sexual abuse within a church 475 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,600 by an authority figure. 476 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,480 And the commonists that we have left here, 477 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,800 can we talk about that? 478 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,400 Because that has been the biggest issue 479 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,760 in the news recently, those specific things, 480 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,760 spiritual abuse and sexual abuse. 481 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,320 How can we help people with that? 482 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,520 Well, I always say that we have got 483 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,680 to be better listeners as a church. 484 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,000 We can sit down with somebody over coffee 485 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,400 and think we've scratched the surface 486 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,320 of who they are and what they are. 487 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,200 But the minute that somebody tells us, 488 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,560 I was abused by the church or I was hurt by the church, 489 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,240 that's not just like a gloss over, 490 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,240 like, okay, next conversation. 491 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,000 That's an invitation for us to ask deeper questions 492 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,920 and to find out, okay, what kind of hurt are we talking about? 493 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,120 What kind of abuse are we talking about? 494 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,440 So we don't let somebody just stay wounded 495 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,960 and just keep on moving. 496 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,960 We also have to stop defending the church. 497 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,440 Jesus himself, he will defend his church. 498 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,040 We have to start getting to a place 499 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,240 where we're not so busy trying to defend pastors and people, 500 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,880 but that we really are more interested 501 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:18,800 in protecting the sheep. 502 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,120 So I always say, if somebody comes to you and says, 503 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,880 I've been abused, we need to take that absolutely serious 504 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,120 the first time that it's said 505 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:27,600 so that we can do some investigating. 506 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,400 And if it's a child, especially, if it's a teenager, 507 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,240 because that's where the police get involved. 508 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,640 And so I just wanna echo how serious it is 509 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,040 because it is happening. 510 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,480 The documentaries like Shiny Happy People, 511 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,640 things like that that are starting to come out, 512 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,000 those are giving people who have been victimized voices, 513 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,400 thank God, because now they realize, oh, I'm not alone. 514 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,760 If it happened in Texas, if it happened in Utah, 515 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,280 if it happened in New York, it can happen to me in Montana. 516 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,400 You know, this was something that really happened. 517 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,640 So thankfully we're starting to give voices to our victims 518 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,920 to be able to walk this healing thing out. 519 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,240 The worst thing that we can do though, 520 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,600 is to isolate the victim 521 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,360 and to make them feel like it's their fault. 522 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,400 And I think that what we try to do when these big names 523 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,320 get exposed for this type of behavior 524 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,600 is because they feel more familiar to us. 525 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,800 We think that doesn't sound like so-and-so. 526 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,160 Well, we don't know so-and-so. 527 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,080 We just know their online presence. 528 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,520 So I always am just such an advocate 529 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,480 for let's be good listeners. 530 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,600 Let's be good friends. 531 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,640 Let's be good shepherds to the sheep God's entrusted to us 532 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,800 and then help them take the next steps 533 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,200 towards counseling, healing, 534 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,320 so that they won't leave the church altogether 535 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,400 and they'll know they're safe somewhere. 536 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,560 Yeah. 537 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,400 Natalie, as we're wrapping up here, 538 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,600 what encouragement can you give to people 539 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,200 that are struggling with this, that are wrestling, I guess, 540 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,640 is probably a better term than that. 541 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,560 And then would you pray for people 542 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,000 that are kind of in this need right now too? 543 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,840 Yeah, you know, I think you guys, first of all, 544 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,200 you have to know you're not alone. 545 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,120 I mean, we all, especially in our generation, 546 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:03,920 in the 40s, 50s, we're really disappointed. 547 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,800 There's just been a lot of disappointment. 548 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,640 And guess what? 549 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:07,960 We've disappointed people too. 550 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,640 We're not completely exempt from hurting people 551 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,760 and being disappointing for others. 552 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,120 And so to own that and say, 553 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,400 Father, forgive me for the way that I've hurt your sheep, 554 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,240 for the way that I've been part of tearing things down 555 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,680 that you didn't want torn down, 556 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,680 or the way that I've been part of making the foundation 557 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,840 a little bit risky, like I have to pray that prayer. 558 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,000 And second of all, to say that there are better churches 559 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,440 out there than what you think. 560 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,440 I always say this, that there are more healthy churches 561 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,400 and more healthy pastors out there than unhealthy ones. 562 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,400 And so to remember that it could be kind of like a year 563 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,560 of trying different churches, and as our church says, 564 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:44,720 you can date for a little bit, 565 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,400 but eventually you gotta put a ring on it. 566 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,160 You know, you want to get to a point 567 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,520 where you are in community, 568 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,320 where you can have that experience that hurt you redeemed 569 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:54,640 by a community that can love you, 570 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,760 and a shepherd who can love you. 571 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,080 And finally, just to know that you do have family 572 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,560 in the family of God, that you are not an orphan 573 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,320 and you're wanted desperately by God 574 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,720 and by the people that he's entrusted to take care of you. 575 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,720 So don't ever give up on Jesus, number one. 576 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,600 If you can't go back to church, don't give up on Jesus, 577 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,800 but know that his family is pretty cool too. 578 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,240 And would you pray for people? 579 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,080 Yes. 580 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,520 God, I thank you so much, Lord, for your church. 581 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,200 I thank you, Lord, for your bride. 582 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,200 She is radiant and she is beautiful, 583 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,160 and you are coming back for her. 584 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,800 Father, you are so proud of your children. 585 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,800 You love us so much, God. 586 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,320 And I just pray for those who are wandering right now, 587 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,160 who at one time was part of a good community, 588 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,760 at one time was on a church staff 589 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,360 and vibrant in their faith. 590 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:42,920 Father, I pray that that flame 591 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,000 would just be stirred up in them right now. 592 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,840 God, that they would be reminded of the promises 593 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,040 you spoke over them when they were young 594 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,000 and that that flame would just move 595 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,880 into a giant forest fire, God, 596 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,200 that would put them back on mission 597 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,880 with the great commission and loving people well. 598 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,960 God, I just pray, Lord, for those who are wounded, 599 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,040 Father, that you would bind up those wounds 600 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,560 and that you would bring healing 601 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,040 for those who have been disappointed, God, 602 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,280 that you would bring people into their lives, Father, 603 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,160 to give them faith again, maybe for the first time 604 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,720 and going back into a church building. 605 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,640 And for those who are just tired 606 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,800 and weary of all of the stuff they're seeing, God, 607 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,480 that you would just put them back in your word 608 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,160 and remind them of what you have to say 609 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,080 because you have the final word. 610 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,680 And I just pray, God, for peace over all of your people now. 611 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,960 In Jesus' name, amen. 612 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:25,800 Amen. 613 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,840 Natalie, thank you so much for joining us today here 614 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,200 on Charisma, and I just wanna encourage everybody, 615 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,600 you can get her books, Raised to Stay, 616 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,040 and the new one that's coming out, 617 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,840 The House that Jesus Built. 618 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,760 You can get those everywhere the books are available 619 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,560 and definitely on Amazon as well. 620 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,400 Put the link in the description for that as well. 621 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,680 So Natalie, thank you so much for joining us today. 622 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:52,680 Thanks for having me, John.