I came to the realization to call on God.
I said, God, if I don't have the real thing,
I want the real thing.
I said, in 2,000 years, we've done something.
We've changed this.
It's not real.
Even though all these people speak and talk,
it's not real.
And I said, God, I gotta know.
I'm not going through this and not have the real thing.
Pastor Henry Schaefer, it is a pleasure
to be able to have you here on Charisma Magazine online
to be able to talk about your journey
and really this whole thing of deliverance,
how God has brought you from being just a pastor
and how God has spoken to you about deliverance
is your call.
And so you've been a great influence
in a lot of people's lives that we're connected with,
Greg Locke being one of them.
He mentions you as kind of like a spiritual father,
a spiritual mentor.
And so we're honored to be able to talk with you
and we wanna hear your story.
And we've talked before actually hitting a record here
and my faith has already grown as a result
to your story.
So welcome here and thank you so much for being here.
Well, thank you so much for having me.
I'm honored.
I'm very humbled to be interviewed by Charisma Magazine.
And John, I just love your spirit.
I just love your attitude towards the Lord
and supernatural things.
So just thank you so much for having me
and I'm ready to whatever the Lord wants me to say,
that's what I wanna say.
Whatever I do, I want to honor God.
I wanna represent the kingdom of God in its fullness.
And that's what I wanna do in the interview.
Amen.
Well, pastor, we're gonna talk about
several different things.
And one of the things that really stuck out to me
is your obedience.
In our previous conversation,
you talked about how God called you
to start a radio station.
And you didn't know anything about that.
And then God called you into deliverance ministry
and God gave you an amazing experience.
I want you to share that story as well.
But let's start with your call to ministry.
How did God bring you into being a pastor?
Okay, well, what happened in my life,
I grew up in church,
I grew up in a congregational, a homeless church,
grew up in a Pentecostal homeless church
and the church of God.
So it's all part of the Pentecostal fellowship
we kind of was around as we were growing up.
But I had always been exposed to Pentecost
and the supernatural.
So I know I can tell you the day
or the time where I was at
when the Lord called me to ministry,
it was like I was 12 years old.
And it was one of them church services they have.
And I know I was kneeling down on the front few
and I heard the Lord speak to me.
He said, I've called you to preach my word.
So, at 12 years old, at the end of the service,
I walked up to my pastor and said,
pastor I said, and he was closing out the service.
So I'm standing there looking up at him.
And I said, I think I just heard the Lord
call me to ministry.
So he kind of like patted me on the head there,
he says, you'll be all right.
So that right there was kind of like,
if a pastor didn't believe in me and didn't embrace it,
then I struggled with it, see what I mean?
And I've made sure now when people tell me that
I do not, I embrace their call.
If they're here in the voice of the Lord,
then I need to be like Eli and say,
when he speaks to you say, yes Lord, I'm listening.
What do you want me to do?
So anyway, that was my call to the ministry at 12 years old.
And, but I would struggle with that for a long time.
And as growing up, I would, you know,
as teenagers growing up, get in and get out of church,
things like that.
I was always knowing what's right and what's wrong.
And I think that God has a soul ties to you
that he doesn't let you get too far.
And then it was in my twenties is really when
I really got serious with God and I really got some training,
some biblical training.
I was living up in Iowa and I was under a ministry there
in Iowa that, you know, that they, they were there to gear,
they were there to train five old ministers.
And in that, in that experience while I was there
for three and a half years,
there's where I got most, most of my,
it's not formal training,
but it was on the level of seminary training.
And so I got it there.
And, but in that, I want to share with you
in that experience while I was there, I said,
I just can't have this Lord, you know,
am I called to the ministry?
You know, did mama call me, papa call me and all this.
And I really started seeking God there.
And in that experience there,
cause I'm, cause this might be the only time
I ever get to share this really with people is that,
and you know, when Paul said in the Bible, he says,
I don't know if I was in my body or out of my body.
He said, but I was taken up to the third heaven.
Well, I can say that it's, I don't know if I was there
or for your, for your understanding,
I'm going to say it was a dream,
but in a dream is when the Lord,
I had an experience with Jesus and Jesus actually set me
in my ministry, called me into the ministry.
In this, most people will, I'm telling you it's a dream,
but it's more of what is called a theophany.
Some people, theophanies or theophanies
where the Lord appeared, like Paul,
he appears, this is your ministry.
This is what you will do.
And many people look for that.
And, but I didn't look for it, didn't seek it.
But I just know that this was what my ministry,
my calling is, is to, you know, so I have no doubt.
This is, I'm called, this is the ministry.
I'm gonna walk in it and supernatural things follows.
It's crazy.
You know what I mean?
It just happens.
And I just, I just want to serve the Lord.
Well, let's talk about some of those supernatural things.
And I don't want to, I don't want to skip
over your story too much, but I do want to,
we're going to talk about some supernatural things,
but I want to tell everybody that what Pastor Henry
has already told me is going to really encourage your faith.
And so Pastor Henry, just keep on going.
I just wanted to interject right there.
Oh yeah.
So, I mean, just things like that.
But I think that's one of the things,
the being called to the ministry.
There's a lot of people who want to be in ministry.
A lot of people are called.
They have this unction or what have you.
But, you know, I don't know how that,
I don't know how you get past it because you struggle.
But if they called you, walk in your calling
and then just serve the Lord and He'll,
He will vindicate your calling.
He will show people that you are one of His
five-fold ministers in that.
So anyway, so something I didn't share with you before
is that I used to work here in Augusta, Georgia over here
for a large pharmaceutical company.
And I was there for like 18 years.
And so I did instrument leptical work.
And in 2000, the Lord said,
it's time for you to leave and I want you to go pastor.
Well, this place is like number three pay
in the whole CSRA, Central Savannah River area.
And I came to a little church that couldn't pay my salary,
barely, hardly pay my salary or much less pay
for my benefits or anything like that.
I think we had like 10 people on Wednesday,
little small church, maybe a whole really company,
50 people.
And I took that, I left my job, got my wife,
we came over to Carolina, Vaucluse, South Carolina
and pastored a little small church there.
And we were there for, I don't know, within the first year
and the Lord spoke to me and He says,
here's what I want you to do.
He said, I want you to build a church.
And I met with my pastor's council
and they sat like there right there.
They said, well, where are you gonna get the money at
to pay for this church?
I said, well, the Lord didn't tell me that.
He just told me it's time to build a church.
I says, y'all don't even have enough faith
to go to the bank.
Y'all don't have enough faith to even go to the bank.
So we went to the bank and we were approved
for $500,000 because of the property
and a little bit of money they had set aside.
When we stepped out and said that we were gonna build
a church, the flood gates opened and people started coming
from all over the place and that little bitty building.
And within the next two years, two and a half years,
we built 11,500 square foot building up on the bypass.
Our payments was like $5,000 a month
when we first went into that thing.
And the monies was just, the money was coming,
but there was a war that would set in.
And the war that would set in was,
there was a lot of changes happening within the church.
I was in my mid forties and what was happening was
they didn't want to change,
the churches just didn't want the change.
They had all these new people coming,
they were losing power, they're losing control.
And the Lord actually had to,
some people separated from the church.
And when they separated from the church, they took money.
And they thought that, well, we know how to get rid
of the pastor, we just hold the money.
Well, they didn't realize that, well, I had been,
had a career, so I said,
now I'll just go back to work and pastor.
So that was a kind of a win-win there.
But here's what I wanna let you know,
is that there was times when our payments was still $5,000.
And I would say, Lord, and I'd meet with the council,
I say, hey, we got a $5,000 a month payment
and we don't have the money, so I'm working.
And I said, we gotta figure out what we're gonna do.
It'd be like seven or eight o'clock at night.
And then right there in the little meeting room
at the front foyer, there'd be a knock on the door
and I walked to the front door.
I mean, walk right out the room and say,
yes, sir, what can I do for you?
And it was like the Bell South man.
And he was standing there and he says, listen,
he said, I've gotta put one of these little boxes,
telephone connections at the corner of the property.
I would like to do it on a church.
He says, but he says,
we'd like to put it right here on your property.
He said, would you be open to that?
He says, we'll pay money for it.
I said, yes, sir.
I said, what kind of money are you talking about?
He says, well, what about $5,000?
He said, would that be all right?
So the very thing that we were dealing with,
knock at the front door, there's the money.
And this happened to me over and over and over.
So I know you can cut this out anytime you want.
So I've gotta tell you, I would go to work.
Before I go to work, I'd go pray.
And I say, God, we gotta have money.
We got to have money to make this thing operate.
You said, Bill, and it's coming.
So I would go to church and I'd say, Lord,
this month we gotta have another $5,000.
He said, money's in the bank.
He kept telling me money's in the bank.
He said, money's in the bank.
I said, well, I know the money's in the bank.
Everybody's got the money in the bank.
You know, the bank's got all the money.
And I had a lady who was swapping from the old style
of doing it in a ledger to QuickBooks.
And she was updating everything like that.
She called me at work, said, hey, you gotta come to church.
Get off of church.
We got something wrong with the books.
So I came into church.
And I said, tell me what's going on.
She said, I'ma tell you.
She says, you've got more money in the bank
than what you know.
I said, what?
I said, how much?
She says, you got $5,000 more in the bank
than what you think.
I said, how did it happen?
She says, they made a deposit
and forgot to write the deposit down in the checkbook.
She says, you got 5,000 more.
See, over and over and over,
it had always been just like this.
And God has always shown up to make things happen
because I didn't call myself to build that church.
The next thing is, of course,
interest rates go down, our payments are well manageable now
and things like that.
And then after we got the church built,
I want you to think about it.
It took several years to build the church.
We got actually in an 05.
We started there in 2000, in 05.
And at the end of that,
because I've always wanted to do something
because I've always worked construction or building.
And I said, Lord, what else you want?
The church is built, what do you want me to do?
And the Lord spoke to me about,
I told you about facing the giants.
And when the movie came out and he started saying,
I want you to build me a radio station.
And it was right at the end, the heels of the church building.
And he says, now I want you to build a radio station.
So I said, I've never done anything like that.
And he says, you'll be facing giants.
And like I said in the past, we went to Washington DC,
had to hire an FCC lawyer.
The radio station covers 1.4 million people
in the Augusta, Georgia market.
And what happens is we won the bid.
We're supposed to have paid 200,000.
We got up for 20,000.
And the first time bidders, we made it,
they reduced it to 13,000.
And we, the $7,000 that was left over paid our lawyer.
Oh, the first donation we got to the radio station
after that was 13,000.
I asked the person, I said, why did you give 13,000?
He says, well, isn't that what you pay for the radio station?
Say, God wanted to give you money back.
So the first donation came in was
the amount that we paid for it.
So, you know, God's not gonna be a debtor to nobody.
So I'm just letting you know, he's not a debtor to nobody.
So trust the Lord with your money
and he'll make sure you get it back.
He's not a debtor.
He'll take care, he takes care of the people.
So we got the radio station and we've been on radio now
since 2014, started in 07, got to 2014.
And just as soon as 2014 ended up, it was July of 2014,
is when I had that a supernatural experience.
I was called to go to Diverville, Mississippi.
And when I was in Mississippi,
I was preaching about the supernatural things
that I had seen about God, gifts of the Holy Spirit,
words of wisdom, words of knowledge,
discerning of spirits and miracles,
and gifts of faith, operation,
and all types of things I was sharing.
And those things became so prevalent
that they were so shocking to me.
I said, God, why am I experiencing so much of this?
And here's what he said.
He said, how else will you teach others
unless you have experienced at least one time in your life?
So I said, there would be times when I would,
I'd be praying, like he told me
that how to stir the gifts up
was praying the Holy Spirit, praying in tongues.
And I'd get up every morning,
I pray in the spirit like an hour every morning,
praying in tongues, praying in tongues,
stirring up the gift.
He said, this is the doorway to the supernatural.
The more you pray, the more supernatural happens.
Little praying, little supernatural.
And I was praying and then,
and I was telling the story of something like this is,
I came home from work, I fell on my knees,
I gotta go to church,
wanna make sure my heart's right.
And in this incident that happened,
in this period of time,
is that all of a sudden a window opened up,
opened up like this.
And I was in my bedroom on the floor,
it's kind of like dark, about 530,
you know how when the winter hits, it's kind of dark.
And I was praying, I said, Lord,
here's my prayer.
And yeah, I wasn't seeking the Lord,
I'm like, oh God, show me, show me, show me, use me.
Cause I did that in the morning,
now I'm here, I'm coming home at the end of the day,
God, I wanna make sure there's no sin in my life.
I wanna make sure there's nothing wrong,
there's nothing before I go to church
that would hinder anything, you know?
And so what happens is,
all of a sudden a window opens up as I'm praying,
I'm kneeling over a pillow, opens up like this.
And he shows me a woman from her waist up,
her hair or earrings.
He shows me everything about her.
And he starts speaking to me.
And I'm talking about speaking to him,
and he says, she's been to several dentists,
they don't know what's wrong with her.
He says, I want you to stand up and call her out.
He says, I want you to tell her, ask her,
does she believe I'll fill her teeth?
And he says, tell her I'm gonna fill her teeth.
This is crazy, brother.
Heavenly filling of my choice.
And he says, when she responds to you, yes,
he says, you're to lay hands on her
or to receive her healing.
And he says, do you understand?
And I'm seeing this in an open-eyed vision.
I said, yes, Lord, I understand.
And I said this here, please don't laugh at me, brother.
I said, Lord, you can show me all this.
I said, what color shoes would this woman have on?
And he said, blue high heels.
He says, you understand?
Went away.
I said, oh my God.
I said, I've only read this in books
where God would show them, say, you gotta really,
this is what kind of stuff was happening to me
is that where God could show you a word of wisdom
of what he wanted you to do, you know, in very detail.
So I go to church that night, sitting on the front row,
my friend sitting right here next to me.
We're talking as the church begins and he bumps my arm.
And when he bumps my arm, I turn and look
and I see this woman does, she bumps my arm.
I turn and look and that was the view
that I saw in the vision.
And I looked at him and I said, brother,
that's what color shoes that woman have on.
He leaned over and said, blue high heels.
So those are the kinds of things that I was teaching about
in Mississippi about how God can use the gift
of the Holy Spirit for his plans and purposes
through words of wisdom, words of knowledge,
and how you can stir this up because this is the supernatural.
We're part of a supernatural body.
And I was teaching about yielding to the Holy Spirit
and letting him use you.
And then at the end of that service,
this is where it comes in at, at the end of that.
And I prayed for everybody that night.
It's the African-American church,
hold about a hundred people.
And man, I'm telling you, they make you pray for everybody.
I'm telling you, I love praying.
I love going to church.
So at the end of the service, they brought a man in
who had never walked.
Two men totaled him in, they were carrying him like,
it was like in a seat, totaling him in,
one on each side, set him on the front row
and they challenged the Lord.
They said, you, the pastor, he says, you pray,
you preach about this supernatural God, pray for him.
And he was not in the church service.
He was sitting in a side room somewhere.
He'd never been there all night.
So all I did was I asked him,
and all I did is laid hands on his head.
This is all I knew to do.
I rebuked the evil spirits that was tormenting him.
I had enough understanding that demons cause sickness.
I don't know where all these people have a problem
with demons, you know what I mean, and sickness.
I don't understand why they can't see the connection.
Jesus showed us in the Bible.
Well, anyway, I laid hands on him, rebuked the evil spirits.
And I said, Lord, I pray that you give the man a miracle.
And I looked at him and I says, do you want to walk?
And he nodded his head.
Now he's slobbering because I mean, he's just that,
that's how sick he was.
So I stuck my hand out like that.
And I said, grab my hand and his arms shook like that.
And his arm grew out and he grabbed my hand.
And I said, now his knees are to his chest.
I says, do you want to stand?
He nodded his head and I pulled him.
I said, let's stand.
And when I did his knees shook.
It was crazy seeing this like this here
and his legs grew out and touched the floor.
And I pulled on him.
And when we pulled on him, he stood up
and we walked across the front of the church.
And that, and the church came unglued.
I see in my mind, I see in my mind,
in a cartoon, you ever seen a cartoon building
when they're on inside and the cart,
the building's going like that in the cartoon.
It was bad.
They were screaming.
I'm talking about shouting.
And it was like pandemonium in that place
because see they knew him, I didn't.
And we just walked across the front of the church.
And that was the setting up of deliverance for me.
Cause I'd always believed in it,
but I knew that I had missed something.
And I'm telling the churches missed it.
You know what I think, you know what I think it is, John?
The church is not hungry anymore.
They're not hungry for the supernatural.
They're not hungry for the real.
It's not music, it's not music, it's not lights.
And we have that.
That's not it.
You understand that's not, you can have that.
You can have all the things of God without all that.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Brother, I have two questions.
I want to talk about this need for the hunger again.
That's it.
I have two questions about that experience from that night.
First, you had that vision, that open vision
with this lady with the blue high heels.
I want to know what happened with her.
So what happened?
Okay, what happened?
How long was that man in that condition?
Oh, how long we seen that condition?
I don't know how long he was.
You know, how many years he'd been like that?
Well, he was like in his forties.
He was in his forties.
And the woman, yes, I did get to talk with the woman.
And yeah, sure enough, it happened like she had problems
with her teeth and things like that.
And, you know, so, I mean, that's what I know about her.
But the man is, you know, he walked.
And after that, it was kind of like,
I don't know if that was for everybody else,
but it was for me.
You know what I mean?
It experienced with me to really drive me
to something deeper.
And, you know, there are times that I have learned,
and I don't know about these,
there are times when God does a miracle,
not that I've been a part of,
but he's done things where the enemy comes back
and regains the ground.
And I think that is because that we don't understand
spiritual warfare is because like Jesus said,
when a spirit leaves and something happens,
that it will try to come back.
And if it does come back, it will come back worse.
So that's where keeping out,
and I think that's where the faith comes in
to reject the enemy and don't let him come back in
to those things.
Does that make sense what I'm saying?
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah.
So the hunger.
So let's talk about the hunger and the need for that.
Because I think that's one of the things
that we really deal with and why there's such a blind need
for spiritual warfare and a blind need for deliverance.
We're just blinded to that.
So let's talk about that.
So let me, I mean, if you really wanna know what happened
is here I am in mid to late thirties.
I speak in tongues, I pray in tongues,
but I came to the realization to myself
and I really came to myself and I said,
I don't believe I have the baptism of the Holy Ghost
speaking in tongues.
I don't have it.
And I came to the realization to call on God.
I said, God, if I don't have the real thing,
I want the real thing.
I said, in 2000 years, we've done something.
We've changed this.
It's not real.
Even though all these people speak in tongues,
it's not real.
And I said, God, I got to know.
I got that.
I'm not going through this and not have the real thing.
And so I was in my bedroom on a Tuesday.
I worked shift and all.
I was on a Tuesday and I was praying
and just as soon as the word of the Lord came to me,
he says, there's a revival going across town.
I want you to be there tonight.
I have a word for you.
I said, oh my God, see, I can hear him talking to me.
I said, ooh, look here.
So I come out of my bedroom.
I go into the kitchen there with my wife.
I said, hey, I just heard from the Lord,
there's a revival going across town.
I'm supposed to be across town.
And the Lord has a word for me.
I says, you wanna go?
And here's what my wife says, Sister Shaver,
we've been married 49 years and she's just a gem.
I'm telling you, I got the pick of the whole litter.
I got the best one and of everybody.
But she said this year, she said, did he tell you to go?
I go, yeah.
He said, well, I'm not going to.
I said, okay.
So I drove 40 miles across town.
I go into a church, it holds 300 people.
It was like 10 people there.
And I walk in, it's an old man.
He's in his seventies and here's what he said.
He sat down, he got ready to preach.
He said, I don't know who this is for,
but this is the only thing I'm gonna preach
is what he gives me.
And he's telling me to whoever's here to tell you
to stir up the gift that he's given you, stir it up.
And I knew exactly what that meant.
That meant the gift of the Holy Spirit he had given me,
that means stir it up.
And so I would go home from that point on
and it would be like three months every morning.
I'd get up, I pray in the Holy Ghost an hour every morning.
I said, Lord, you told me to stir it up.
And I just start praying in tongues.
That the baptism of the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues is real.
And here's the thing he says, these signs
would follow them that believe.
So I was to the point to where I'm saying,
there's nothing happening supernatural in my life.
So I don't have it.
You know, every now and then something small,
I said, I don't have it.
But now I got no doubt in my mind.
And even some people have told me that
when I speak in tongues and I do YouTube,
and you know, I'm at church
and I start speaking in tongues on the,
they'll go there and they'll say,
he's speaking in an Arabic language.
YouTubers say that he's speaking in Arabic language.
Yeah, and things like that.
So the thing is, is that I want to encourage you,
don't let the enemy try to tell you that you don't have it.
You do have it, stir it up.
That's the power.
That's the doorway to the supernatural.
He's like the apostles.
He told them, don't go anywhere.
They try to preach, to try to cast out demons
or do anything of the supernatural
till you go to the upper room and you'll receive power.
So being baptized in the Holy Ghost, you have this.
You got to stir it up.
He told him in the Bible, we got to stir this up.
And the more you stir it up, listen, watch what God does.
He will vindicate his own word.
And these sounds will follow those that believe.
So you have to get past the point where I was at.
I'm not seeing anything.
And you got to recognize your own deficit
in your own ministry and your own life.
And you start doing a reality check
and then this will stir it up
and things will start happening.
Is this okay?
This is powerful, brother.
This is really good.
This is the way this thing works.
When you started stirring this up
and you started praying in the Holy Spirit
for an hour every morning.
Every morning.
Let's talk about deliverance.
Let's talk about, obviously as God is giving you things
to say, you have a radio station.
So that requires a lot of talking
and it's not a radio station that's music.
It's the word of God going forth.
That's right.
So you're talking about stirring up
the gift that is within you.
Yes.
Let's dive deeper into that
and how you've been training other people.
You've been, people have been grabbing ahold of this
and you're seeing more and more things happening
as people are stirring up the gifts.
Yes.
So, I don't know if we're gonna leapfrog here or anything,
but I understand that the doorway to the supernatural
is praying in the Holy Spirit.
I would say, I would read books
about supernatural things happening.
And I would just say, Lord, I want the gift of miracles.
I want this and I, Lord, I desire earnestly
the spiritual gifts and all of these power gifts.
So I was desiring that.
I mean, I had the desire, but it wasn't happening.
I said, why isn't it happening, Lord?
I want it.
And he said, this is, you got to stir this up.
And when you stir this up, it activates all those nine gifts
and they come about in the need.
When you have need of them, the Holy Spirit knows
what you've done, what you need
and that the spiritual gift will operate.
I mean, there'll be time, listen here,
there'll be times that I was at work, you know,
witnessing to people.
And I was witnessing to a man in my office.
I had a big office there and had a couple of desks
that other people could share because they worked for me
right there.
And I'm talking about the gospel.
And this guy was super intelligent.
You could tell he was very smart.
And I didn't know how smart he was.
And I was sharing to him about the gospel
and the Holy Spirit quickened me.
And he says, don't speak to him like that.
He has an IQ of 120.
I knew exactly what that meant with the IQ scale.
So I scaled back the way I was speaking to him.
And I was, you know, people who are very intelligent,
you cannot leave anything out.
It's this, this, and I talked about the gospel,
the Old Testament, the sacrifice and the blood
and taking away, you know, covering a sin and Jesus.
And he needed every bit of that.
See, most people who have a just normal IQ,
we can all fill in the blanks.
See what I mean?
This guy couldn't.
So, and I adjusted the way I was sharing the gospel with him.
And then a couple of days later, unbeknownst to him,
I said, let me ask you a question
with just a regular conversation.
I said, let me ask you a question.
I said, is your IQ 120?
He looked at me and he says, how did you know that?
I said, I have ways of finding out.
You see, but I'm telling you that like a word of knowledge
in the moment you need it, that's what I was stirring up.
See, those kinds of things like that is how he does it.
And there was a lot of those, so many other things
that I was teaching that night about things like this.
This is available to the body of Christ.
This is what we need operating.
Now I'm not talking about being plugged in below
into some new age thing.
I'm talking about being plugged in
or being empowered by the Holy Spirit.
That's what I'm talking about.
Well, I want to talk about that.
Because you said you mentioned about plugged in below
versus plugged in above.
I think there's, as you look on YouTube,
as you look on social media now,
you're seeing a lot of things that look good,
that look innocent, manifesting people
that are just believing
and this whole power of positive thinking.
And there is biblical parts of that,
but it's also been manipulated.
Brother, let's talk about discernment
and how you can look at these things
and see what is God and what is not.
I love it because I did a teaching here.
It was, I think, in June of last year, 23,
and it's called Pentecost.
I do a conference.
The odd months of the year, one, three, five, whatever,
whatever the, I do the odd months of the year,
I do a conference at our church, a deliverance training.
They come from everywhere.
Well, one of those was Pentecost.
And I taught the importance
that if you're gonna operate in the gifts
of the Holy Spirit, the importance
of going through deliverance.
Now, let me share a moment to you this year.
So I've taken a lot of people through deliverance.
I've learned a lot of things.
So I know of this one, I know these individuals,
these are pastors.
And as I'm taking them through deliverance,
and because they do not struggle with having to believe
whether a Christian can have a spirit or not.
They know, they know there's something wrong with them.
You know, it's like there's pastors who battle pornography
and they preach holiness and they love God,
but this is an area of their life that is not
that something's there that they can't break.
And see, this is what deliverance does.
And the thing is for you to say that it's not there
is to deny all the people I pray for.
So you can't help them.
So that's why they come to us so we can break
and call out that spirit of pornography
that's going to feed every two to three months.
I think it's gonna feed.
And it's gonna break down that barrier you got.
You're gonna mess up and you're gonna repent.
And about two or three months, it's gonna happen again.
We'll see, that's what deliverance does.
Deliverance reaches in, calls that thing out.
Now you can not have, it's being on the outside,
it's not on the inside.
And you can resist it.
You can't resist what's on the inside.
You can resist only what's on the outside.
So you can only push down what's on the inside.
So I would pray for them like pornography,
let's stay with the gifts.
This one here was prophecy.
This guy, man, he can prophesy.
And all of a sudden, as I'm taking him through deliverance,
a spirit comes up of divination.
And I said, who are you?
He said, I'm divination.
I said, well, I made him renounce, let's call.
He says, no, he needs me.
And I said, no, I don't need you, get out of me.
And that spirit of divination came out.
So here's what's happening.
It's because people do not submit to deliverance.
It's what happens is that operating in the spirit of God,
in the true gift of God, then all of a sudden, here we go,
they shift into something that's not holy.
You see this thing moves in and out like that.
This is the way this thing here works.
And I'm telling you, the way Pastor Henry did it,
I said, who took him through deliverance?
Who, tell me who took him through deliverance?
Have they been through deliverance?
And if they say, well, I said, well, how long?
Oh, about 10 minutes.
I said, no, I ain't listening to none of that.
Because the enemy knows how to get into the gifts
of the Holy Spirit functioning in things like this here.
So, the Bible talks about how that sweet water and bitter,
how can it come out of the same fountain?
It's not saying that it's impossible.
He's saying that if sweet water or bitter comes out
of the same fountain, something's wrong with the fountain.
That's what he's trying to teach.
So, clean out the fountain.
And this is what deliverance does.
So, that's prophecy, that's gifts of the Holy Spirit,
and things like that.
Everyone needs to go through deliverance,
especially if you operate in, of course, baptism
and Holy Ghost speaking and going through deliverance.
So, here's what I wanna share with you
about having the conference.
So, we had one in June, I think it was,
or May or June of last year.
And so, there's people, we have 100 people here.
And now, this is not during the church service.
I'm teaching Friday.
I'm teaching about the need for deliverance.
I'm teaching deliverance.
I'm talking about how you gotta get this stuff out of you
and that if you're gonna do deliverance,
you need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.
And at the end, that, and during Saturday,
okay, let's stop right now.
Everybody who wants to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost
come to the front.
65 people come to the front.
No music, none of this here, that's none of that.
I said, raise your hands to heaven and say,
Lord, I wanna receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost,
evidence of speaking.
These people had never received the Holy Spirit.
65 people at one time received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
I just came from Tennessee.
You may, it's like double digits or minus wind chill.
We're up there, people come from Canada everywhere.
Little small church.
I'm taking, training 50, 60 people.
And on Sunday morning, I said,
how many wanna receive the Holy Spirit?
And have never prayed and never spoke in tongues.
It's like 20 people walked to the front.
I said, raise your hands to heaven.
And now they done went through deliverance.
See, they done went through deliverance.
They've been trained.
And we pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit.
20 people at one time.
This church is a man that's gonna do this here.
And they're Pentecostal.
They won't have nobody a whole year,
baptizing the Holy Ghost.
See, this, if you will get
and take people through deliverance first,
get the bad stuff out of them.
I'm not talking about they're not saved.
They've got stuff in them that's resisting.
And get that out of them,
they easily receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
But they gotta be, and these people are hungry for it.
You know, how can people, people were saying,
well, we need to cancel the conference
that's going on in Tennessee.
And I said, no, there are people flying in from Canada.
They don't care how cold it is.
They're coming, they wanna be trained.
They wanna know more about what's going on.
Have I got off track here?
Oh no, brother, you're right on track.
We're heading to the right destination for sure.
So that's what needs to happen.
That you gotta be hungry for it,
but everybody needs to go through deliverance.
And when I watch that on YouTube, I'm going,
that ain't right.
That ain't right.
That's not the Holy Spirit.
I said, that's another spirit.
And the thing is, is because you gotta realize,
I'm in my sixties and you got, listen,
you got people who were in their twenties and thirties
and they're teaching you, they still novice.
I'm just saying they're just novice.
I look back and I go, that's new age.
You say, you know, I just didn't fall off.
I just didn't come out of this.
You understand what I'm getting at?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And a lot of people can see it.
They can see it as well.
So that's just because, the word is to be cautious,
don't believe every spirit.
And everyone needs to go through deliverance,
a level of deliverance in that.
Yeah.
So yeah, there's so much out there that is the counterfeit,
but that means if there's a counterfeit,
then there's a real as well.
And so, you know, Pastor Henry,
let's talk more about the real,
because you had a real encounter with the Lord.
And I don't think we talked about that in this recording.
We talked about that before we started recording,
where you had an encounter with the Lord.
Let's talk about the real deal.
Oh yeah, as far as like being called to ministry.
Yeah, yeah.
So, I mean, I was in my twenties
and I was seeking the Lord because, you know,
I was struggling about the call to ministry.
And I said, I can't do this just based off, you know,
I just hear Lord an unction,
you're telling me this here.
And I really got serious, started seeking the Lord.
And as I told you in the past that,
that night when I went to sleep,
and I can tell you whether it was a dream,
and when Paul says, I don't know if I was in my body
or out of my body, but I was taken up to the third heaven.
And I understand that because for simplicity of you saying,
what, I don't believe in that.
Well, let's just call it a dream then,
but it was more than that.
And actually what happened is that I was standing
on the side of a grassy knoll.
It was sunshiny day.
And my mom was out there with me
and it was beautiful day out there.
And all of a sudden she pointed and pointed up to the sky.
And she says, look, I looked up in the sky
and I saw the Lord in the sky standing in the clouds.
And I started running towards that.
And then all of a sudden I remember the teaching
that when Jesus comes, it will take faith to go up.
It's gonna take faith.
And I said, I believe in right when I did it,
I released off the ground.
I was this crazy, but I started going up into the sky.
And as I started going up into the sky, I got way high.
And I did my arms like this, took my eyes off the Lord.
And I looked at my arm.
I said, look what I'm doing.
And then all of a sudden I realized,
oh, that's not a good thing.
I started falling back down, but I looked way out
and there was a huge skyscraper that he had went in.
And windows had opened, he went right in.
And I came across and went right into the same window.
When I walked in, I just stepped in,
there was a huge hallway.
And there was people walking back and forth,
left and right.
And he was standing right in the middle.
And they were bumping into him.
And he was just standing there.
And I wanted to go to him so bad.
I mean, I knew who he was, they didn't.
And he says, they don't know who I am.
He says, but you'll be the one who tells them who I am.
And immediately that moment I woke up
or came back to myself and I went, oh my God.
I mean, it was like I was there.
And I didn't tell my wife right off the bat.
I told her like, no, later on that day.
And I said, I gotta tell you something that happened.
And then I told her, she said, oh, we gotta tell the pastor.
So I told the pastor where I went to church at there.
I was shared with him what had happened.
And he looked at me and he says, this happened to you?
I go, yes, sir.
And so there are people who believe in a theophany.
I didn't know what it was.
And in that you're called into a five-fold office
through a direct call from Jesus.
And I didn't know what all that meant and everything.
So that's what happened to me.
And from that moment on, everything that I do,
it's like, I just do what he tells me to do.
And it worked.
Not that I don't have, bro, I've had some bad,
I've had some struggles, but it's because,
and I know my calling.
So not everybody's call is gonna be like that.
But if the Lord has called you,
then seek the Lord walking the calling that you've heard,
heard his voice and God will vindicate your call
into ministry.
Not everybody who takes a platform's call of the Lord,
many of our mama call, papa call,
their call of themselves.
And I wasn't called to myself.
I didn't wanna do it.
Just doing this interview, I go,
God has to make me do it
because I don't wanna promote myself.
You know what I mean?
But I wanna tell you about him.
He's the one that does it all.
Jesus does.
I wanna thank you for sharing more in depth
about that encounter with the Lord.
And God's used you to help other people
encounter the Lord in a powerful way.
And one of those people has been Pastor Greg Locke,
who's one of our authors here at Charisma.
And he went from being a cessationist
to being a continuationist
because he had some things that he encountered
that he could not explain beyond just,
God is still alive today.
God is, the Holy Spirit is moving.
And God used you to help him a lot
and to help him kind of figure this stuff out.
Can you talk a little bit about that experience
and your connection with him?
Yes, because I like to take it back,
if you let me take it back.
Remember the radio station?
And so God, all of this here
is God setting up his plans for the future.
And at the, I don't wanna get political here,
but at the end of the, was it 2020 election,
is the Lord spoke to me and he told me,
he said, here's what I want you to do.
He said, take the resource I gave you
and I want you to broadcast the truth of what happened.
So, and so what I did is I connected with
Clay Clark Reopen America Tour.
I don't know if you know them or not,
but okay, so behind the scenes, I was radio.
Now this is FCC license.
This is not internet radio.
This is FCC license and we do broadcast on the web as well,
but it's a real FCC license.
So it's real media.
It's the real deal, y'all.
You know what I mean?
So I connect with them and they allow me
to interview all of these people.
I mean, Roger Stone, Mike Lindell,
all of these people and their Christian experience.
So we would go and we would broadcast
about their Christian experiences
and how that good people need to get involved
in our country.
That's pretty much what it was all about.
And in that, I got on, I would see Greg Locke,
but you know, he was a passion.
I knew his badness.
I knew he was badness, but it didn't matter to me.
At that point, it is good people need to get involved
in our country.
I don't care what you believe.
And that was it.
And so I had met him.
We'd only talked very briefly.
You and I have talked more than I had talked with him
until that point already.
You know what I mean?
And I think I interviewed him one time
and you know, he had a great following
and all of that.
And then I asked him to come to the church.
I got him on television here at WBPI.
I come in and he was doing a book thing.
I said, come on in, do your book thing there on television.
We had a little conference we did here.
I said, come by the church and I says, and do your spiel.
I mean, do your, everybody needs to get involved.
So he comes to the church.
We had a full church that night on a Friday
and I let him do his whole thing.
I do not get involved.
I don't even go to the front.
It's all, this is all Greg Locke
and our ministry there, Global Vision.
And so at the end of that, I'm in the foyer
as I'm standing in the foyer, the Lord spoke to me
and he says, take Greg Locke in your office
and talk to him about deliverance.
I said, he don't even believe, he don't even believe,
he don't even believe in none of this.
He says, take him in your office.
So I said, Greg, I said, can I meet with you just a moment?
So I took him in my office and I sat down
and I started talking with him.
And here's what I told him.
I said, I explained to him about the man's arms and legs
and the things that I had seen.
And here's what I told him.
I said, Greg, I said, God wants to bring
a different kind of freedom to his people through you,
other than the freedom we're talking about in the country.
He wants to bring a different kind of freedom
and it's the freedom of deliverance.
He wants to use you to do it.
And I started sharing with him about the things
that I had seen.
And then I also told him that when I came back
from seeing this happen with this man's arms and legs,
God spoke to me, John, at the altar, at the church there,
as I was seeking the Lord when I came back.
And here's what he told me.
He says, take your front row out.
He said, I'm gonna fill it with wheelchairs.
And he says, I'm just telling you what he said, bro.
I'm telling Greg like this.
I'm just telling you.
I said, here's what he said, take your front row out.
We're gonna fill it with wheelchairs.
And when they come, you're not gonna have to worry
about whether the power of God's gonna be here.
He said, it'll be here.
Just do what I tell you to do.
And then he goes on to tell me
what the Lord said he's going to do.
And he said, I'd send people from all over
the United States here for deliverance.
And I said, Greg, I said, this is what God wants to do,
is to bring you to that level there.
And he stopped.
I talked about 45 minutes with him,
maybe 40, 45 minutes.
He just listened.
And at the end of that, he stood up and he says,
pastor, he said, this is what I've been waiting to hear,
right here.
And he walked out of the door
and somebody had given him a couple of books we had there
about deliverance.
And I thought I would never hear from him again.
I said, this is it.
He'll never hear, I'll never hear nothing from him again.
So he leaves, that was 21 December of 21.
And he goes out of the church.
He goes back to Global Vision.
He starts preaching deliverance.
Now he's Baptist, cessation, as you heard that.
And he's teaching and preaching all of this.
Demons are manifesting.
They're screaming, they're coming out.
He's seeing all kinds of miracles happen and everything.
And he calls me, I think it's February of 22,
after this thing had broke out,
he says, pastor, you've got to come.
You gotta come to Global Vision.
You gotta come, we gotta talk.
So Sister Schaefer and I, we left church after that Sunday.
We drove, it's like five or six hours.
No, seven hours we get there to Mount Juliet, Tennessee.
And we met with his staff and we met there
probably about three hours.
And I just shared about deliverance
and the things that we have seen in deliverance.
And I told Greg Locke this year,
because you gotta realize this is the only time
that you're gonna be, that I don't know,
before people get to them,
they're telling them that this isn't real.
See what I mean?
They're gonna tell them it's not real.
And I said, Greg, you know,
just like you miss deliverance, being real,
and Christians having demons and all of that,
I said, something else you miss too.
I said, it's the baptism of the Holy Ghost
speaking in tongues.
I said, it's real as well.
And I said, if you're gonna operate
in the ministry of deliverance,
this is what you need to continue on
and making that happen.
He says, I want everything that God has for me.
And we left from there that evening,
and we go back to his church, to the compound there,
and we pray with him and his wife and some others there
to about two or three o'clock in the morning.
And in the morning time,
that morning, I don't know, two or three o'clock,
I don't know, you can cut this anywhere
you think is appropriate,
but he and Ty was sitting there in his office.
One had one hand raised, one had the other hand raised,
and they was holding hands.
And I just laid hands on them.
I said, received the Holy Spirit
with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
And both of them started the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
That was their experience.
They received what the first century apostles did.
And that sets them up for the supernatural
because before that, I wanna just share with you
what's happening here is that Jesus had told his disciples,
you can operate in my authority.
And when Jesus ascended to heaven, he says,
now, don't go anywhere and try to cast out any demons
or do anything I told y'all to do
until you go to the upper room and you will receive power.
So that power comes in in the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
When you operate in authority
with the power of the Holy Spirit,
that is where you are engaged
to be able to engage the enemy.
And I had to make sure that I told him that.
And then God sending someone, me,
that would have to express that.
And not only that, John, I will tell you
that there are people who, they come from everywhere
for me to pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit.
It just happens.
So God sent that to make it happen.
It had to happen that night.
Did that make sense?
For that ministry to go on with it.
And from then on, everything happened from there.
The church exploded.
People started coming from all over the place
for global vision.
And I mean, that's a story within itself.
I mean, it's like flipping an entire church
or a whole thousands of people.
I'm gonna tell you what the Lord told me
when deliverance came to the church.
He says, don't say what you're doing
is small or insignificant.
He said, this is bigger than you can imagine.
That's what he told me.
Because you've got to realize in 2015,
when deliverance started, it started there at the church.
And it was pandemonium that broke out January 1 of 2015.
When I went to church that morning,
I preached a message about if you're here
and you're battling things
and you've messed up like Adam and Eve did,
and they stood there with their fig leaves covering
what they had done, their sin,
is that you've got to confess like Adam and Eve did
and say, Lord, I'm having problems.
And I preached like a 20 minute message.
And I said, if you're here
and you're battling some areas in your life,
you've got to come to the Lord
and you got to tell him I'm battling some things.
And if you will, he'll set you free from them.
So that morning, January 1 of 2015,
or I think it was actually the third,
that was the first Sunday,
what happens is I make that message call,
they came to the front.
Five people came to the front.
When they did, I look there,
traditional church of God,
traditional church choir behind me,
and I'm standing there and I'm looking at these five people.
And I said, Lord, who do I pray for first?
And at the end, there's a woman
and her face is moving like that.
Her face is moving.
I said, well, God, I guess I know which one
I need to pray for first.
And I guess I'm gonna be the only one to do it.
So I stepped up to her.
I said, ma'am, what is your problem?
She says, pastor, I'm battling anger.
I said, well, that's not a problem.
I said, Jesus, I set you free from that spirit of anger.
I said, say this here, say I don't want anger no more.
So she says, I don't want anger.
And I said, come on up here, anger.
I said, come on up here, anger.
And it says, no.
It came out of her voice, brother, loud.
No, she's mine.
I've had her for years.
The hair on top of my head stood up.
This is in church, man.
Hair on top of my head stood up.
I walked to the end of the,
you know, the people who were standing there.
And I looked at the congregation.
I said, grab your babies, grab your Bibles,
grab your books, leave the sanctuary now.
All these people jumped up and they ran out
of the sanctuary.
And when they ran out,
and unless you're gonna stay back here to help me pray.
And I had like a 10 or 15 people stay back
help me pray for these five people.
And I looked back at the doors of the church.
You have windows about this wide,
so you'd walk through the door, you don't hit somebody.
So they had glasses and windows like that.
All I could see was eyes looking through the door.
They wanted to know what was going on in that room.
So we prayed with them for the next,
oh, I don't know, to three or four hours.
We prayed for them,
casting demons out of five people there.
But on another note is that,
see the Lord, you talked about radio.
I say what the Lord told me to do was,
he built the radio station and he told me, he says,
now what I want you to do is put your services
live on the radio.
So I want you to think of what I just told you.
We're not recording something on the radio, it's live.
So what's happening live,
they're listening in their cars.
And I've had people drive in when I gave the altar call
and walk in the door, give the heart to the Lord, live.
You understand what I'm saying?
It's not recorded.
See, I want you to put your stuff on there.
So that morning I am broadcasting with all them screaming,
demons coming out live over the radio.
I didn't have time to disconnect it.
For the next three or four hours,
they're hearing all this screaming going on
in the sanctuary, come out in the name of Jesus, come out.
And there's people who finally came to the church.
They said, we were out of our church.
We had the radio on and we were glued to the radio.
It was like listening to war of the worlds.
And we were listening to the radio and they came in.
So those are the kinds of things
that when deliverance happened at our church,
same thing starts to happen up at Global Vision.
People start, comes from everywhere.
And all kinds of manifestations of demons, deliverance,
all of those kinds of things are happening.
But not only with that, miracles happens as well.
So this is a deliverance.
Deliverance is the end time spearhead
of the end time revival.
This is it.
And if you miss deliverance and you take,
you think that this is something small nor insignificant,
that you don't realize that God is cleaning up the bride
first, the bride recognizes she's got problems
and that things are not coming out of the bride.
And God's gonna deliver the bride.
It's Joel in Joel 2.32.
And there shall be deliverance in Mount Zion
and in Jerusalem and in the remnant
whom the Lord shall call.
So the remnant recognizes that she's got some things
she needs to get out.
So the church gets it first and gets cleaned up.
And when the harvest comes, the harvest is coming in
with much of the same things that the remnant's got or had.
And the church will be equipped to help deliver
the harvest when they come in
because they went through deliverance themselves.
And so that I believe that's the spearhead
of the end time revival that you're seeing everywhere.
Amen, amen.
Brother, I could talk with you and listen to you for hours
and I might just have to do another interview
just to make sure that that happens.
But before we wrap up here,
would you just pray for the people that are watching this
and pray for the people that are listening,
that they would have that encounter
and really have that real experience with the Holy Spirit,
that real infilling of the Holy Spirit
or however else that the Lord is leading you.
But I just feel like there's people that are so caught up
in the wow factor that they're missing the real
and they're looking for the special effects
instead of what's real.
You know, there's two passages of scripture.
It's a Hosea 4-6, most people know this.
It says, my people perish, my people die,
my people perish for or destroyed for lack of knowledge.
And then the Lord started telling me,
he said, no, it's more than that.
It's a Hosea 5-13
and most people don't know this scripture here.
And it says, my people go into captivity
for lack of knowledge.
One, they're destroyed, the other one,
the church is in captivity and they don't even realize it.
So there is a spirit that's in the world of mind control
and mind control is control of the church
and many people in the church.
They know there's something's not right,
but they don't know how to get past it.
And here's what I'm gonna share with you.
If you're struggling in your walk,
knowing that there's more,
there is a demonic assignment to stop you
from operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit
and your destiny that God has for you.
See that word like debt,
those are key words that people that are speakers,
they just know, if I use the word destiny, calling,
these are things that attract people.
But I want you to know is that,
here's the thing is that Satan has an assignment.
The first assignment against you
is to keep you from knowing Jesus.
If he fails in that assignment,
he has a secondary assignment
and it's to keep you from fulfilling your calling
and stand between you and what God has for you.
So what I want to, if I could instruct someone
is that you need to make sure that deliverance,
if there's anything in your life that is hindering,
that don't just think it's something on the outside,
but deliverance is for you.
And that deliverance came at a cost
and Jesus died for your deliverance.
He paid for the penalty of your sin,
but he also defeated the enemy that he must let you go
in life and the ministry of deliverance
is delegated to the church that he gave.
See, we can't pay for your sin, Jesus did that,
but he gave the ministry of deliverance
to the church.
So my job is to instruct you that there are things
that will stand between you and your destiny
and it's a demonic assignment.
So I'm gonna pray that you can understand
the ministry of deliverance, reach out,
seek your deliverance, you can walk in the spirit
and the fullness that God has for you
and that God can show you and direct you
where you need to be at in life.
Is that all right, John?
Father, we love you, thank you for today,
thank you for your blessing.
Lord, I thank you for this opportunity to come together
with John and just share of your goodness
and Lord of the supernatural that you have used in my life,
Jesus Christ receives all glory and honor.
Father, we pray that we have represented
the kingdom of God well here in this discussion today.
Lord, I pray for the people who's gonna maybe listen
to this or see this here, that there's a connection
in your heart right now saying, God, I know there's more
and this is it.
I pray, Father, that they would hear the words,
stir up the gift of the Holy Ghost that God has given you,
pray in the spirit and Lord, that they would start
to activate that supernatural that's in them
and Father, those who are in bondage
to an area of their life, we come against it.
We bind the strong man in every person
that's gonna listen to this.
We bind the strong man and we say that you have no authority.
Father, in Jesus' name, I pray that they would seek
their deliverance, you would lead them to a well
and a hope and a ministry of deliverance,
that they could be free so they can move forward in life.
Lord, I'm looking for great things in the kingdom of God.
Lord, I know that your word tells us,
great end time harvest is coming.
Help me, Lord, to build up an army
of supernatural deliverance ministries
that are ready to take the kingdom of the enemy
away from what they have done and take new territory in life.
I thank you, Lord, what you're gonna do with these people.
In Jesus' name we pray, amen.