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Gaslighting.

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It's Merriam-Webster's word of the year.

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They say that the search spiked 1,740% in 2022.

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And today we have a special guest who's going to talk about gaslighting, what you need to

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know about it, what is gaslighting, and how do you know if it's happening to you.

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Our special guest today is my mother-in-law, who I love dearly, and she is the CEO and

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founder of Couples Care Center in the Marriage Warrior Institute.

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She works and helps couples through crisis and trauma, and she's the perfect person to

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talk to us today about gaslighting.

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Welcome, Suzette.

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Thank you, Shelby.

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It's so good to see you.

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So tell everybody a little bit about who you are.

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Well, I'm known as Suzette the Marriage Warrior, and my practice years and years ago started

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kind of merging into dealing with crisis marriages, you know, just trying to find out how the

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crises are occurring inside the marriage and then how to help them.

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And so I kind of hemmed myself into doing a lot of research to determine how can we

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help these couples that are in situations that seem so harmful that they're going to

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end in divorce.

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And so I started working with the 14% of divorces that were destined to have attorneys and be

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in the family court system.

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And I started working with them on this side of the tracks to figure out how can we start

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really reconciling these marriages.

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Yeah, not only have you done a lot with couples and marriages, but you've also made songs,

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you've worked in ministry, you were a worship leader for many years.

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So you've been around the block in a lot of different areas and have a lot of wisdom and

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revelation from the Lord.

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So I want to talk to you today about what gaslighting is, but also your experience,

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whether that's in ministry or seeing that in couples and family life.

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Gaslighting is a hot topic right now, just as any characteristics of narcissism.

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And gaslighting is kind of the key to Pandora's box of the other characteristics of narcissism.

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And they cause a lot of toxic interactions between any intimate relationship, whether

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it's your partner, your spouse, your boss, your family member.

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And the typical tool that will be kind of the sign, the red flag, if you will, of other

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narcissistic behaviors, which are toxic in nature, is gaslighting.

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So the definition of gaslighting is a manipulative emotional or psychological tactic that offsets

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you from your own reality.

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That's the simplest way to determine what the definition is.

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Now to explain that a little bit, the way it occurs in an interaction is if you are

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trying to reason with someone and you bring something to their attention or you want to

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confront them on a matter or you want to just try to resolve and solve an issue between

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the two of you or about something else.

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If an individual feels threatened in any way, and if you're dealing with narcissists, they

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are threatened by all kinds of things that are unknown to most people.

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It's called narcissistic injury.

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And so you don't ever know when you're stepping on that landmine and triggering that injury.

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And so the tactic that is first used is gaslighting.

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And it's going to try to offset the person who's confronting the issue or the individual

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to where they don't think clear.

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It's a crazy maker because it offsets you in a way that it makes you question and doubt

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yourself.

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So it causes a lot of self-doubt.

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It causes you to kind of move from the original subject, we call that deflection, so that

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you're not talking about the issue you brought up anymore.

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You're talking about whatever it is they came and used you as a target to light you on fire.

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So they all deflect by using all kinds of words or phrases.

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You're crazy.

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You're too sensitive.

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Why are you bringing this up?

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You're just argumentative.

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They offset you.

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Now, if the issue is brought up in a way that threatens them like a confrontation about

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them, they're going to gaslight you to where they say something about you that then pulls

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you off the subject.

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And then before you know it, you're like, wait, what are we talking about?

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And that happening over and over will create a lot of self-doubt that creates self-esteem

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issues for the individual being the target.

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And it's pretty much kind of like from what I understand is you're going to somebody with

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a problem or with something that you want to address with them, then you end up leaving

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feeling like you're the one in the wrong.

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And that's the motivation for the tactic.

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The gaslighter knows that they're doing that.

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And they know the reason that they're doing that is to take the attention off of them

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because vulnerability is threatening for them, confrontation, being wrong is threatening

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for them.

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So they have to put it upon you in order to get it off of them.

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So as somebody who works with Christian couples, or really couples from all walks of life,

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what would you say that people who are either in a relationship or in a marriage should

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do if they realize that this is happening to them?

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Well, first of all, I'm laughing because the shock for the other person when it's happening

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to them takes a while to get over.

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You're so shocked.

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I mean, you're like, wait, what?

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Wait, wait, what?

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You know?

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And then because the gaslighting technique is so critical to the person bringing the

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issue, they're starting to self-doubt thinking, well, am I doing what they're saying?

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Is the sky really purple?

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Am I really like that?

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And so the shock is so difficult to get over first.

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Then you're starting to back away and say, OK, what is this really about?

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I didn't get my issue solved.

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We changed topics.

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And now I'm criticized in some way that I didn't even know this person felt about me.

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And so the confusion, that's why it's a snake fest for the enemy to use against coupleship

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and unity and trying to reconcile together.

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Because the shock that comes first then brings that person into self-blame.

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And so that's what starts to disintegrate the self-esteem inside the person that's being

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the target.

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Because they're wondering, is it about me?

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Am I wrong?

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And they didn't even get their first problem solved with the person that is gaslighting.

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And so once the shock is over, and if it happens enough times, and most gaslighters know this

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tactic and they use it in all kinds of areas in their lives, so it's going to happen again

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inside that relationship.

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So then the partner is going to start seeing a pattern.

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When they start to see the pattern, they're going to start self-evaluating through listening

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to other people.

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They're going to try to look up social media helps to figure out that's why Webster is

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saying it's so research.

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It's because people are looking to get help in this because it's offsetting them to the

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point of self-devastation.

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So God right now, I believe, is unveiling this whole system of toxicity.

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Because for a long time, it was just us clinicians that were throwing around the words gaslighting

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or discard or narcissistic supply or narcissistic injury.

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We were the ones talking to one another in a referral sense, like to refer from one clinician

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to another, you would talk about these particular characteristics.

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But now social media has really enlightened a lot of people on this subject.

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And I believe that it's God unveiling this because this particular characteristic of

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gaslighting goes totally against the word of God that tells us in Isaiah to come, let

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us reason together.

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Because there's no way to reason with this type of behavior.

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So that's what I think the person needs to do is be able to get over the shock, research,

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step back, kind of step away slowly because they can really be harmful if they're not

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getting the type of energy they need from you, which is to be self-devaluating and to

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tell them they're right and to say the sky is purple.

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So you have to step away slowly and then evaluate the situation.

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The clinicians talk about going into gray rock mode.

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What gray rock mode is, is to be non-reactive.

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The reason you want to be non-reactive is because the injury that this person has suffered

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in the past and is still operating in is a tormenting thing within them.

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They bottle a lot of emotion up, most emotion up because they cannot stand the pain of vulnerability.

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For people who are more empathic, vulnerability is kind of like the thing that we like to

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do.

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We kind of interconnect with one another and be vulnerable and open up.

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But for people that suffer with this type of characteristic, vulnerability is very threatening.

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It scares them.

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It causes fear.

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So there's an automatic response that's impulsive for them that gets them to where they have

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to push all of that bottled up energy that is usually negative and pour it on to someone

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else.

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By the way, when they do that, your pain is their healing.

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And that's the way the energy shift is because if you're hurting, they have poured out that

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pain that was inside of them onto you and then they feel a sense of health.

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It's a dysregulated emotional system within them that then gets regulated by them pouring

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on the pain to someone else.

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It's kind of like it settles the score in some way.

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Wow.

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That's really intense.

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And I think just listening to it and what you're talking about, would you say in a spiritual

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sense that somebody who is a narcissist, who has a lot of those tendencies, who uses gas

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lighting on the people around them, is that something that they need deliverance in?

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How do they reconcile from that and find breakthrough?

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Let me just clarify something.

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When you're dealing with narcissism as a disorder, it's on a spectrum.

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So the continuation scale is it varies.

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Some people may have some characteristics and not all of them.

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Gas lighting is just the key to Pandora's box.

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It's like the one that's the gateway that for sure, if they're starting with this behavior,

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then they may have other characteristics.

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So but narcissism on the continuum scale, they have several characteristics, it's very

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complex.

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It is very spiritual.

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It is psychological.

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It's emotional and it's mental.

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It carries all of the combined systems of the human because the spiritual part has to

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deal with the hardness of heart.

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So there's a hardness of heart condition.

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If I have no empathy towards you and I'm just going to gaslight you and not listen to you

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and just offset you to cause you damage, that's a hardness of heart condition.

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The soul in the mind, emotions and the will is broken.

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It's fractured.

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And then there's a broken consciousness.

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So the awareness is lacking as well.

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They don't have a lot of self-awareness and self-reflection because they are so guarded

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in their whole protective system that then they push everything away that looks like

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self-reflection, if that makes sense.

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And so when you're dealing with the spiritual part of it, it's very demonic because it feels

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evil in what they're doing.

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These behaviors are very evil.

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But at the core of the individual acting out in these behaviors is a very wounded person.

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So they were wounded in a very young age, five, six years old.

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So it's kind of all they know.

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Okay.

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They don't know a lot more.

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And so the psychology part of it is to be able to locate the wound and create awareness.

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But because self-awareness is not something they like, they typically don't get help.

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However, becoming aware of these things does not create healing.

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So the healing is spiritual.

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What creates the healing has to be self-expression of self-awareness and confession.

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You see, we have to have confession to the Lord and you have to be able to make the trade

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from this way of operating that's so harmful to everybody to make another way to operate

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that follows the pathway of Christ.

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See, it's a trade because they think what they're doing is right because it works.

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It gives them power.

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It gives them pleasure and it gives them a way to punish.

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So it's a combination of a lot of things.

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And the clinicians will say all the time, there's no healing it.

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I've seen different in my practice, but the way I've seen it is I don't go into deliverance

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as in casting out demons and all of that.

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What I do is I bring them to truth with self.

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Typically if marriage has a crisis, there's been an adulterous situation or addiction,

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something that's causing a lot of explosive episodes inside of the marriage.

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And so they're catch me if you can people.

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So they lie a lot.

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I mean, they'll lie when it's easier to tell the truth.

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And so it's very difficult to catch them.

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And so when there's an adultery situation, it's kind of easy to catch them because something

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happens to show off what they've done.

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And then once they're caught, they know that they are in jeopardy of losing their wife,

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their marriage, their reputation, their money, all of that.

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The odds are stacked against them.

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So then what they'll do is when they come to me, I require them to tell the truth.

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And so when they have to tell the truth of every single thing that they've done, and

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by the way, they don't like it, but once they do that, that softens the heart.

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They see their wife didn't run away or their husband didn't run away.

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It starts to soften the heart.

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Then what we have to do is bring them into the truth of the other behaviors that are

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characteristic to this kind of self-indulgence.

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When they can see the truth of that and how it's harmed others, then they are ready to

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open their hearts to the trauma that began this whole show because it started in childhood

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and they're afraid of that because it's been so painful.

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And then they started operating into all of these other very toxic, harmful behaviors.

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And so then once they can do that, the empathy starts to flow through the heart.

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Long process must require the person operating in this to step up to the plate.

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There's no way you can have enough empathy for them, have enough love for them.

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They are going to drain you of all of the energy because they do not have it within

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themselves.

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So they're stealing from you, which is why they will offset you in something like gas

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lighting.

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Wow.

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Well, from what you're saying though, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

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You have seen people healed from this and marriages walk away from this better than

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ever.

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Absolutely.

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But it's not common.

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There's a system to do it, but it's not a common system.

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And I imagine a lot of people are walking couples through really with what you're talking

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about, dealing with the trauma from childhood, but understanding the spiritual component

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and all of that.

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So obviously that's so important to be led by the Holy Spirit and have him lead and guide

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those conversations.

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But my last question is for people who do have an out, maybe they're not married, they're

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working for a ministry.

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We have a lot of people who watch who are in ministry world or jobs and they realize

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I'm working for a narcissist.

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What would you tell them they should do?

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Ministry, there's a lot of narcissism inside of religious institutions.

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They'll use the religious biblical scriptures or whatever to basically gaslight other people,

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make them follow because they want power.

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And so the scripture can be abused as well for power.

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There's white bosses and people who know that you're relying on them for your wellbeing

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and your livelihood.

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It also gaslights you to be able to reduce your self-esteem instead of lifting it.

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Everything with the Lord is about lifting and light and moving someone.

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If you win, I win kind of mentality.

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And so it goes against the nature of Christ.

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And so when the person knows and can recognize they're in this situation, their entire demeanor

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needs to change to where they can back away slowly.

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And different with a marriage and a job, you can feel a rescue in being able to find another

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place of employment once you figure out that you have an operating system above you.

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That is going to harm your own self-worth and self-value.

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In a marriage, it's a little more difficult because there's so many ties inside of a marriage,

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not only the covenant, but also the ties with children and all of that.

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So it's a little more difficult to back away and try to stay married.

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Sometimes it's impossible to stay married because they would gaslight and deflect and

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discard and cheat and steal and all this stuff that's so against scripture that there's no

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way to reconcile the marriage, especially if they're not willing to step up.

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But with a boss situation, you really can't control the boss.

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So you have really no influence except to try to back away and find where God is opening

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another window for you.

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I'm big on looking for the window.

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Sometimes it's not a big old door, but it's a window.

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You got to look for the windows because God is always the way maker.

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That's what I have found out in living for Him all these years is He's going to make

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a way.

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You just got to find the peak of light wherever it is and go towards the light.

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Yeah.

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So true.

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Before we wrap up and close here, would you pray for people, however you feel led on this

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topic?

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Yes, absolutely.

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Yes.

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Father, we bless you for who you are, Lord.

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We thank you, Father, that you see all things, nothing is hidden from you.

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In the times that we are in right now, you say that all that is hidden will be revealed.

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Father, we open ourselves up to you to let it come however it comes.

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Give us patience and endurance, Father, and long suffering to understand and to create

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a healthy mind and a centeredness within us that is centered on you and your ways, Father,

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as certain people are going through this, as they're learning more about this and trying

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to confront this and know that they're going to be battered in abuse as they confront it,

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Father, that you would give them the strength to stand on a firm foundation of who you are

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and who they are in you, that nothing that the enemy would try to do to them can offset

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them from you and your truth.

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Lord, let the truth always prevail in situations that corner us, that are being, you know,

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as we are lied to and manipulated, Father, and our minds begin to feel mind controlled

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and mind games going on, Father.

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Let us center our mind to where we are aligning perfectly in our mind, our emotions, our will,

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and our love for you and love for others, God, that as you show them the way, those

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that are going against what your word says to do, Father, to bring us into unity, Lord,

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as they go against it, Father, we pray for them.

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We ask that you and only you can enlighten them, Father.

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It is nothing that we can do by our own might or power, but it is something you can enlighten

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into.

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And Father, we do pray for that.

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And Father, if those who choose to not follow you and not be enlightened upon themselves

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and see the harm that they're causing others, Lord, if they choose not, give us the ways

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to get out, Father, that we would stay safe and sound and secure so that we can continue

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to flow in our giftings and give to others in your kingdom purpose.

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In Jesus name we pray.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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Thank you, Suzette.

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That was so special.

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Thank you for joining us here today.

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And for everybody who's watching, Suzette is just filled with wisdom and knowledge, revelation

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from the Lord.

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And I'm not just saying that.

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It's true.

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So she actually has courses that you can do as a married couple or even if you're single

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and you want to prepare for that season of your life.

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Now where can people go to find Marriage Warrior Institute and the courses that you have?

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Marriagewarinstitute.com is a training process that I developed out of everything that I've

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learned by the Spirit of the Lord, by my training, by my experience in just loving and watching

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people and how they move and how coupleship is designed not only biblically to function,

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but psychologically that works for everyone.

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And so I just made an institute that had all the training videos of everything that I've

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done to create this stability in couples online.

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So it's the Marriage Warrior, it's Marriagewarriorinstitute.com.

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And there's sections for individuals.

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If you're not in a coupleship, there's a coupleship one.

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There's ones for mentors that I'm trying to train lay ministers, people who just have

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a heart and a gifting for people in the churches or outside the churches that can learn how

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to figure out the situation that you're seeing, when to refer to someone that you're not really

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equipped to help.

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And then those that you are equipped to help, it teaches you how to help them, assist them,

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know the signs, the triggers.

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And as they are learning what all of the situations are inside of their dynamic, the mentor can

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help them and guide them and feel very purposeful in their own calling and ministry towards

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the Lord.

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Because the harvest is plentiful, the laborers are few.

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And so I'm trying to just multiply myself so that people don't have to necessarily see

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me.

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They can see me, they can contact me through Couples Care Center.

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But if they just want online training, there's a plethora of all kinds of videos.

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They'll help you also go through your family of origin trauma.

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It gives you exercises to go through that.

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And for the couples, it gives them a structure to put their marriage in while they're learning

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the education in the training program and go through their family of origin.

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And they will learn how they dance inside of the marriage.

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So it's a beautiful work that my clients are saying they're taking pages and pages of notes

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to each video, even though they're seeing me.

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So it's been a wonderful blessing of the Lord that I'm trying to pass on to others.

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And it's pretty simple and it's pretty affordable for what you're getting.

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So I hope people will be blessed by it.

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And they can also connect with you on couplescarecenter.com as well, right?

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Yes, that's where if you want individual or couples training by me personally, and some

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people will elicit my help in sessions while they're doing Marriage Work Institute videos.

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So it's a way to kind of combine the two depending on what they need and how I can serve them.

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Awesome.

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Well, thank you for joining us here today.

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This is a hot topic and just so amazing to be able to hear and understand from a spiritual

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perspective as well as what's going on psychologically.

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And so we just thank you for joining us here today.

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And for everybody who's watching, this is Shelby Bowen with Charisma News.

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And make sure you check out our videos down below.

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Thank you for listening to Charisma News.

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