WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.459 You are operating based on the world's definition 00:00:02.459 --> 00:00:05.620 of success, not your own. So how do you change 00:00:05.620 --> 00:00:07.540 your identity? It's very easy to say, right, 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:09.839 from I'm going to change my identity. If you 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:13.779 don't really believe it, the me self. is when 00:00:13.779 --> 00:00:17.539 you are looking at yourself through the lens 00:00:17.539 --> 00:00:21.179 of how others would view you. So how is the world 00:00:21.179 --> 00:00:23.660 looking at me? What are they thinking of me? 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:26.500 It just gets so hard to operate in a world where 00:00:26.500 --> 00:00:28.420 all you're thinking about is what others might 00:00:28.420 --> 00:00:31.000 be perceiving. It's not just being fearless, 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:34.179 it's walking with your fear. What if your entire 00:00:34.179 --> 00:00:36.920 life, the pivots, the setbacks, the lucky breaks, 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:40.159 wasn't fate or personality? but the result of 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:42.780 tiny, conscious choices you didn't even know 00:00:42.780 --> 00:00:46.000 you were making. Today, we're unpacking a way 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.240 of thinking that flips the story we tell ourselves, 00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:51.759 that feeling stuck is permanent, that I am is 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:54.460 destiny, and that obstacles are signs to turn 00:00:54.460 --> 00:00:57.159 back instead of invitations to walk through a 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.119 new door. We're diving into the identity statements 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.340 that quietly shape our lives, the metaphor of 00:01:03.340 --> 00:01:06.180 the mighty tree trapped in a tiny pot, and why 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:09.140 midlife is actually the perfect moment to rewrite 00:01:09.140 --> 00:01:11.939 the script if we're willing to choose differently. 00:01:12.379 --> 00:01:15.840 If you've been craving a shift, a spark, or a 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:18.180 sign that you can pivot into something truer 00:01:18.180 --> 00:01:21.299 and more expansive, this conversation is going 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:23.260 to feel like someone just handed you the keys 00:01:23.260 --> 00:01:26.439 to your own life. And if this is your first time 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:28.810 listening or watching The 40s Formula, please 00:01:28.810 --> 00:01:31.010 hit the subscribe button and review the episode 00:01:31.010 --> 00:01:33.349 so we can keep holding space for women who want 00:01:33.349 --> 00:01:35.769 to feel strong, clear, and supported through 00:01:35.769 --> 00:01:38.170 midlife. And if you want more from The 40s Formula, 00:01:38.430 --> 00:01:40.590 check out our free ebook, link in the show notes. 00:01:41.489 --> 00:01:43.510 Welcome, Bhavna. We are so happy to have you 00:01:43.510 --> 00:01:45.650 with us. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for 00:01:45.650 --> 00:01:48.609 having me. And I love when you say we are only 00:01:48.609 --> 00:01:52.049 one conscious choice away from a new direction. 00:01:52.069 --> 00:01:55.409 I really love that. What was one conscious choice 00:01:55.409 --> 00:01:58.829 that you made that changed everything? The one 00:01:58.829 --> 00:02:02.030 conscious choice that I made and continue to 00:02:02.030 --> 00:02:07.629 make is to lean into fear. You know, fear is 00:02:07.629 --> 00:02:11.610 one of those things that we are wired, we're 00:02:11.610 --> 00:02:15.169 almost conditioned to turn away from. But what 00:02:15.169 --> 00:02:19.530 I've found time and again is when we lean into 00:02:19.530 --> 00:02:24.099 our fear. Amazing things can happen because fear 00:02:24.099 --> 00:02:28.400 actually is the strongest guidepost or signal 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:33.000 for our growth. I remember when, now this was 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.259 over 15 years ago, when I first left my corporate 00:02:35.259 --> 00:02:39.560 career behind, which felt so safe and comfortable 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.280 and secure at the time, I was so afraid of doing 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.319 anything else. And at the time, I'd made the 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.560 decision of just pausing for a while to reflect 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.860 more deeply. into the kinds of choices I was 00:02:52.860 --> 00:02:55.960 making so I decided I was going to move to India 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:58.479 I was living in New York at the time and I remember 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:00.199 I was having a conversation with a friend of 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:02.900 mine at the time and I told him I literally feel 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:06.479 like I'm jumping off a cliff he said something 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:09.360 to me so profound that has still stuck with me 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:13.159 to this day he said yes Pavna you are jumping 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.699 off a cliff but go ahead and jump knowing that 00:03:16.699 --> 00:03:20.120 the universe is going to be there with open arms 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:23.219 to catch you when you fall because the universe 00:03:23.219 --> 00:03:28.990 always rewards courage. Wow. And that has just 00:03:28.990 --> 00:03:32.969 stuck with me and has become a mantra almost 00:03:32.969 --> 00:03:35.490 for my life. And I have found time and again, 00:03:35.569 --> 00:03:41.250 when I befriend my fears is what allows me to 00:03:41.250 --> 00:03:44.750 unlock that next level of growth and evolution 00:03:44.750 --> 00:03:47.889 for myself. So it's not just being fearless, 00:03:47.949 --> 00:03:50.490 it's walking with your fear. I think that's an 00:03:50.490 --> 00:03:52.449 interesting distinction, right? Because I think... 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:55.219 The reason that a lot of us do feel held back 00:03:55.219 --> 00:03:56.759 from fear and don't feel like we can embrace 00:03:56.759 --> 00:03:58.439 courage is because it's like, well, I'm not a 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:01.900 fearless person. You know, I feel that intimidation 00:04:01.900 --> 00:04:03.960 and that and that that scaredness about the next 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:05.280 step. So I think that's really cool to think, 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:08.259 no, I walk with my fear. There it is. That's 00:04:08.259 --> 00:04:09.800 something that we say to our children as well. 00:04:09.819 --> 00:04:12.960 We say being brave isn't not being scared. That's 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.170 right. It's feeling it. And then. Just getting 00:04:16.170 --> 00:04:17.709 on with it. And, you know, it's like the book, 00:04:17.829 --> 00:04:20.230 feel the fear and do it anyway, which I think 00:04:20.230 --> 00:04:22.730 is such a profound thing, not just for kids, 00:04:22.769 --> 00:04:25.029 but also for adults, because you do think you 00:04:25.029 --> 00:04:27.290 think, oh, my God, this is scary. I'm not going 00:04:27.290 --> 00:04:30.930 to do it. But actually, if you want to be brave 00:04:30.930 --> 00:04:33.129 and you want to make a choice, then you have 00:04:33.129 --> 00:04:35.149 to. You are going to feel scared. Like, I don't 00:04:35.149 --> 00:04:38.800 think anything easy will come to you. If you're 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:40.819 not afraid. No, definitely not. And nothing good. 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:43.160 Yes. I'm going to say good. I'm going to say 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:45.319 good. Correct. That's right. That's right. Yeah, 00:04:45.420 --> 00:04:48.060 absolutely. I think it's about befriending our 00:04:48.060 --> 00:04:51.220 fears rather than overcoming anything. Whenever 00:04:51.220 --> 00:04:53.800 we talk about overcoming our fears or overcoming 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.019 the imposter syndrome, we always... almost make 00:04:57.019 --> 00:04:58.899 it sound like there's something wrong with us 00:04:58.899 --> 00:05:01.620 or there's something, you know, there's something 00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:04.879 we need to overcome or fix. And it's not about 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:06.899 that. Like you said, it's about turning towards 00:05:06.899 --> 00:05:11.120 it and walking alongside it, even though it feels 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:15.259 scary and unnatural. But that's what really makes 00:05:15.259 --> 00:05:17.860 you feel alive and come alive when you embrace 00:05:17.860 --> 00:05:21.420 those fears and and just keep taking those next 00:05:21.420 --> 00:05:24.040 steps forward. And we've heard from a lot of 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:26.240 women who are unfortunately in that place of 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.319 fear still. And they're saying things like, I'm 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:31.240 stuck or this is, you know, I'll always be like 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:32.939 this. You know, in our line of work with nutrition, 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:35.220 I'll always be overweight. Right. I'll always 00:05:35.220 --> 00:05:37.779 be out of shape. You know, this always happens 00:05:37.779 --> 00:05:40.850 to me. How does conscious choosing or conscious 00:05:40.850 --> 00:05:44.129 choice help women take more control of their 00:05:44.129 --> 00:05:45.949 lives and kind of drop these ways of thinking? 00:05:46.149 --> 00:05:48.610 Yeah, that's such a great question. You know, 00:05:48.670 --> 00:05:52.689 it's so true, especially I think when we hit 00:05:52.689 --> 00:05:56.769 our 40s and beyond, we start to feel like this 00:05:56.769 --> 00:06:00.329 is it. Who I am today is who I'm always going 00:06:00.329 --> 00:06:03.350 to be. And what's fascinating is, especially 00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:07.129 there was this research that Daniel Gilbert, 00:06:07.329 --> 00:06:09.790 who is a psychologist out of Harvard, had done 00:06:09.790 --> 00:06:14.569 where he asked a group of people all ages, how 00:06:14.569 --> 00:06:17.209 different do you think you would be 10 years 00:06:17.209 --> 00:06:21.230 from now? And then 10 years later, he actually 00:06:21.230 --> 00:06:23.350 asked those people, well, how different do you 00:06:23.350 --> 00:06:26.370 think you are compared to who you thought you 00:06:26.370 --> 00:06:30.470 would be? And it turned out every single person. 00:06:31.940 --> 00:06:36.600 We grossly underestimated how much change was 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:40.040 possible for them. So yes, we're conditioned 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:43.000 to feel like, okay, this is it. This is it. This 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:47.000 is the end of the story for me. But just knowing 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.800 that we tend to underestimate the possibility 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:52.939 of change, I think is a good place to begin. 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:56.360 And knowing that, then you can make certain conscious 00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:01.339 choices. to bring about that change. And I think 00:07:01.339 --> 00:07:03.839 for me, it's always been about getting clear 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:09.040 around what that future vision or that future 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:14.399 self really look like for you. Because to put 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:18.129 yourself in the driver's seat, Where that clarity 00:07:18.129 --> 00:07:20.110 comes is knowing where you're going, knowing 00:07:20.110 --> 00:07:22.810 where you're headed. And even if you don't know 00:07:22.810 --> 00:07:24.850 what you're going to do, what I always like to 00:07:24.850 --> 00:07:27.970 say is don't focus on the doing so much. Focus 00:07:27.970 --> 00:07:31.149 on who you would like to be, because that's a 00:07:31.149 --> 00:07:34.439 question any of us can answer. even right now 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:37.839 with whatever confusion or whatever uncertainties 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.699 we have in our life to just ask yourself, how 00:07:40.699 --> 00:07:43.319 would I like to show up as a woman, as a human, 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:46.079 as a leader that makes me feel good, that makes 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.139 me feel proud? And to then make the kinds of 00:07:49.139 --> 00:07:52.079 choices that allow you to become more and more 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:54.899 of that with every action, every choice, every 00:07:54.899 --> 00:07:58.620 step that you take. That's amazing because I 00:07:58.620 --> 00:08:01.680 feel like, again, even to bring it back to our... 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:04.740 clients you know they always talk about I want 00:08:04.740 --> 00:08:07.819 to lose x amount of weight I want to look a certain 00:08:07.819 --> 00:08:11.720 way but it's never I'm going to go to the gym 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:14.779 five times a week or three times a week or whatever 00:08:14.779 --> 00:08:17.240 commitment they can make and so then it becomes 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:21.660 it's not about what you what you sort of want 00:08:21.660 --> 00:08:24.740 as an end goal it's more about how you're going 00:08:24.740 --> 00:08:27.699 to get there Yes, yes. And in fact, if you look 00:08:27.699 --> 00:08:31.439 at the science of behavior change, it all points 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:35.620 to how the most sustainable change comes when 00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:38.659 you bring about that shift at the level of your 00:08:38.659 --> 00:08:41.840 identity. So not just at the level of action 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.059 saying, okay, I'm going to go to the gym three 00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:48.000 times a week, but to say, I am the kind of person. 00:08:48.549 --> 00:08:51.649 who practices discipline, is always going to 00:08:51.649 --> 00:08:54.509 follow through on her word. When you start making 00:08:54.509 --> 00:08:57.669 more of those I am statements that are rooted 00:08:57.669 --> 00:09:00.190 in your identity or the kind of identity you 00:09:00.190 --> 00:09:02.830 would even like to shape, that's what creates 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:05.149 the strongest foundation for change. So how do 00:09:05.149 --> 00:09:07.389 you change your identity? Because I think it's 00:09:07.389 --> 00:09:09.429 very easy to say, right, I'm going to change 00:09:09.429 --> 00:09:11.850 my identity. I'm going to become this person. 00:09:12.210 --> 00:09:14.710 But if you don't really believe it, like how 00:09:14.710 --> 00:09:17.570 can you make those changes? That's true. It's 00:09:17.570 --> 00:09:22.669 not easy by any means. I think it does begin 00:09:22.669 --> 00:09:25.889 with first bringing clarity to, okay, who would 00:09:25.889 --> 00:09:30.110 you like to be? For example, for me, I know when 00:09:30.110 --> 00:09:34.389 I made the switch that I made, I knew I wanted 00:09:34.389 --> 00:09:40.990 to be the kind of person who is driven more by... 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:44.419 my inner alignment rather than external validation 00:09:44.419 --> 00:09:48.360 or who someone who always was could choose courage 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.559 over over comfort I think it's about once you've 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:55.879 given yourself that vision with each choice asking 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:59.299 yourself is this however small this choice is 00:09:59.299 --> 00:10:04.259 is it leading me towards that north star that 00:10:04.259 --> 00:10:07.759 I've defined for myself or is it keeping me stuck 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:10.820 or is it even moving me in a different direction. 00:10:11.059 --> 00:10:16.159 And every time you take that step forward and 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.080 you see yourself, even in a small way, becoming 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:23.279 more of who you wish to become, in that moment, 00:10:23.379 --> 00:10:25.299 I think what's really powerful is to actually 00:10:25.299 --> 00:10:29.600 pause and acknowledge that. So self -affirmation 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.220 theory really tells us that the more we actually 00:10:33.220 --> 00:10:37.879 consciously affirm who we are becoming, whether 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:42.330 by journaling or even something as simple or 00:10:42.330 --> 00:10:44.870 as silly as every time you see yourself showing 00:10:44.870 --> 00:10:47.870 up in a certain way to mentally just say to yourself 00:10:47.870 --> 00:10:50.789 it's just like me to do that it's just like me 00:10:50.789 --> 00:10:54.649 to say that it's just like me to uh to say no 00:10:54.649 --> 00:10:58.090 is whatever it is to actually either journal 00:10:58.090 --> 00:11:02.360 or in your head you say that you're rewiring 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:05.559 that narrative in your head about who you are 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:07.980 and what you're capable of and who you can become. 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.919 And that, I have a client who embodies that so 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:14.320 well. This is a client who is getting fit using 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:17.279 my strength training programs and her whole life, 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:20.620 when she travels, when she goes on holiday, she 00:11:20.620 --> 00:11:23.159 just lets it loose, meaning she doesn't do her 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:25.159 exercises, she doesn't eat very well, she has 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:27.179 too much alcohol, all those things, right? She 00:11:27.179 --> 00:11:30.159 recently went on a holiday. and two things happened 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:34.399 differently number one she found a gym so that 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:36.500 she could get her workout in she looked for one 00:11:36.500 --> 00:11:39.279 at her holiday destination and she found it so 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.580 she went to it and second thing is she posted 00:11:42.580 --> 00:11:45.240 that information on her social media tagged me 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:48.559 as her coach so i could see it meaning she chose 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.240 the behaviors of a fit person yes and then she 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.860 affirmed that she is in fact the fit person by 00:11:54.860 --> 00:11:57.059 showing the world that she made that choice and 00:11:57.059 --> 00:12:00.019 i think Women don't do that for two reasons. 00:12:00.620 --> 00:12:03.220 One is that they don't believe it yet. They don't 00:12:03.220 --> 00:12:04.820 believe that just because I went to the gym, 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:06.779 I'm not a fit person. But that is what a fit 00:12:06.779 --> 00:12:09.580 person would do. So you did the thing. And secondly, 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:11.679 they don't want to put themselves out there. 00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:15.059 They're like, I'm an imposter. Like you said, 00:12:15.139 --> 00:12:17.159 they'll know that I'm just like an unfit person 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:19.159 going to the gym. I'm not actually a fit person. 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:23.580 How does adopting a new identity help us overcome 00:12:23.580 --> 00:12:26.460 that feeling that we aren't there yet? Can we 00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:28.720 talk about how no one prepares you for how your 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:31.539 skin changes in your 40s? Honestly, one day it's 00:12:31.539 --> 00:12:35.039 fine. 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And 00:13:03.590 --> 00:13:05.509 our listeners get the highest discount they offer, 00:13:05.710 --> 00:13:11.649 21 % off with code TFF at lovindus .com. Plus, 00:13:11.669 --> 00:13:13.950 they ship free to Singapore, which seems like 00:13:13.950 --> 00:13:16.710 a very rare little treat. And yes, we earn commission 00:13:16.710 --> 00:13:19.289 when you use our code, so don't forget to support 00:13:19.289 --> 00:13:24.570 the show by using code TFF. I think with every 00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:27.950 choice, with every action, if you are focusing 00:13:27.950 --> 00:13:33.990 on who you are becoming, then you think more 00:13:33.990 --> 00:13:37.250 and more about who you are not. So it's also 00:13:37.250 --> 00:13:40.269 about bringing our sense of awareness, our sense 00:13:40.269 --> 00:13:45.470 of attention more to the choices or the micro 00:13:45.470 --> 00:13:47.929 steps that we're taking versus always looking 00:13:47.929 --> 00:13:50.110 at, okay, where would I like to be and where 00:13:50.110 --> 00:13:52.909 am I right now? And constantly looking at the 00:13:52.909 --> 00:13:55.789 gap. Because that can be overwhelming. That can 00:13:55.789 --> 00:13:58.669 be overwhelming and that can feed into that sense 00:13:58.669 --> 00:14:01.049 of, okay, I'm not enough and this is not enough. 00:14:01.289 --> 00:14:06.129 But if we can keep our awareness to what is within 00:14:06.129 --> 00:14:09.590 our control right now in this moment, how am 00:14:09.590 --> 00:14:13.289 I showing up? I think that is what allows us 00:14:13.289 --> 00:14:16.090 to then really celebrate how we're showing up 00:14:16.090 --> 00:14:20.039 right now. focus less on the sense of lack or 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.700 not enoughness so you're you're talking about 00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:25.039 micro steps now if we were to sort of look at 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:27.259 it like um your goal is at the top of the stairs 00:14:27.259 --> 00:14:29.779 and then obviously each micro step is this is 00:14:29.779 --> 00:14:31.700 the step so rather than looking oh i need to 00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:33.399 get to the top you just look at what's right 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:35.879 in front of you that's right how long would it 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:38.700 Like how long would you stay at one micro step 00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:40.419 before you kind of move to the next one? Or can 00:14:40.419 --> 00:14:42.440 you say, I'll take two or three now and then 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:44.820 maybe I'll pause a bit and then maybe I'll take 00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:48.000 one. You know, like how do you think the rhythm 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.879 works best for somebody who does want to get 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:53.659 to the top of the stairs? You know, that's such 00:14:53.659 --> 00:14:56.539 a personal question. I think for each of us, 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:01.669 we would need to really. really dive deeper into 00:15:01.669 --> 00:15:06.309 our own sense of what feels right for us. Because 00:15:06.309 --> 00:15:10.330 each day looks different. You know, some days 00:15:10.330 --> 00:15:15.210 you can show up with your 100 % and you're ready 00:15:15.210 --> 00:15:19.179 to take five steps. Other days, you just need 00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:23.200 to rest maybe or pause and maybe you're not even 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:26.720 going to take a single step. So it varies so 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:29.860 much. But I think in my own journey, what I've 00:15:29.860 --> 00:15:34.919 found is as long as I keep trusting my own sense 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:39.980 of what feels good, what feels right, I'm okay 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:44.419 with setting my own pace rather than constantly... 00:15:45.149 --> 00:15:47.490 either comparing myself to somebody else or even 00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:50.110 constantly looking at where I would where I should 00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:54.169 be or and where I am right now so I think I think 00:15:54.169 --> 00:15:58.090 it is about yeah being comfortable with and and 00:15:58.090 --> 00:16:00.389 determining your own pace and I think as women 00:16:00.389 --> 00:16:02.370 we do do that don't we look at other women and 00:16:02.370 --> 00:16:04.230 we're like oh you know she's got x number of 00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:06.690 kids or her kids go to this school or her kids 00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:09.169 are excelling at this sport and oh you know she's 00:16:09.169 --> 00:16:11.840 managing a business and running a family And 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.720 we're constantly comparing. Yes. And looking 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:16.840 at timelines that are not even relevant to ours. 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:18.919 You know, I think of like the Marvel, the multiverse, 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:20.940 right? It's like she's operating in a different 00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:23.860 universe from me. So why would I even get on 00:16:23.860 --> 00:16:26.320 that staircase with her? You know, her step is 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:28.620 a different step from mine. But I know myself, 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.919 I am definitely the person who's like, if it's 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:32.440 three steps, I'm going to get a leg cramp and 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.100 be out of the game for four weeks. So like I'm 00:16:34.100 --> 00:16:37.059 a half step a day type of gal. That's like where 00:16:37.059 --> 00:16:39.299 I'm at, you know? Every day gets a half step, 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:40.840 but like I ain't going for three to five steps. 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.940 No, that's never that's never my way. You have 00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:45.879 a bunch of amazing metaphors in your book. You 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.159 know, I love Jasmine's of the Staircase. I love 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.419 yours of the mighty tree in the small pot. Can 00:16:52.419 --> 00:16:54.220 you tell us? I love this story. Can you tell 00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:58.700 it to our listeners? Yes. So, you know, in Japan, 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:03.080 they have this beautiful art called the bonsai 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:06.750 where, you know, they. prune and nurture and 00:17:06.750 --> 00:17:11.130 create these beautiful plants, which are essentially 00:17:11.130 --> 00:17:14.569 these trees that look so beautiful. And what's 00:17:14.569 --> 00:17:18.630 fascinating is when the same tree, if you put 00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:21.589 it into a pot, it will grow maybe just a few 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:25.829 inches. And if you take that same plant, same 00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:28.829 seed, and you plant it in open ground, it could 00:17:28.829 --> 00:17:32.269 grow several feet. What? I did not know this. 00:17:32.329 --> 00:17:35.470 Yes, yes. Really? I guess I read the book. Wow. 00:17:36.049 --> 00:17:39.809 Yes, yes. And, you know, and then you just ask, 00:17:39.869 --> 00:17:42.829 well, what's the difference? And I think metaphorically 00:17:42.829 --> 00:17:47.890 the difference is that when it comes to our potential. 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.619 Question is, you know, what really contains our 00:17:53.619 --> 00:17:57.319 potential and what allows our potential to flourish? 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.920 What is that container? And what really allows 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:04.339 us to tap into our fullest potential? And for 00:18:04.339 --> 00:18:07.359 me, I think one thing that definitely plays a 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:12.619 huge role is the nature and the size of the goals 00:18:12.619 --> 00:18:15.339 or challenges we're setting for ourselves in 00:18:15.339 --> 00:18:19.779 our life. If we're only setting... comfortable 00:18:19.779 --> 00:18:24.200 goals then we will only grow or stretch as much 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:27.819 as is needed to meet that goal but if when we 00:18:27.819 --> 00:18:32.119 set inspiring goals for ourselves that almost 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:36.599 feels scary that that that that cause you or 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:39.380 or propel you to actually befriend those fears 00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:44.619 in the process of going after those goals even 00:18:44.619 --> 00:18:50.579 if you fail even if you fail the kind of growth 00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:54.119 that becomes possible for you is just immense. 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:57.240 And that's what I experienced when I made the 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:02.119 leap. The first few years, there were quite a 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:06.079 few failures. At first, when I moved to India, 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:12.950 I thought of starting this investment fund. But 00:19:12.950 --> 00:19:15.569 couldn't raise enough funding to get that off 00:19:15.569 --> 00:19:18.349 the ground. Then I led a nonprofit for a while. 00:19:18.849 --> 00:19:21.930 But as I like to joke, the nonprofit was so non 00:19:21.930 --> 00:19:26.809 in its non -profiting that that folded eventually 00:19:26.809 --> 00:19:34.279 as well. Even with every failure, the learning 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:37.680 and the growth that came from that is something 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.599 I'm so grateful for. And every failure prepared 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:44.539 me for the next step. See, because I think using 00:19:44.539 --> 00:19:47.200 the term failure means that's it, it's the end. 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.740 But I don't actually think it's the end. I feel 00:19:49.740 --> 00:19:52.359 like there should be another word for it because 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:54.900 failure is like more like a blip. Because it 00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:57.079 didn't stop you. I think failure would have been 00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.619 if it stopped you and then you said, right, you 00:19:59.619 --> 00:20:01.240 know what? I'm throwing my hands up. I'm just 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:03.980 going to go and get a steady job because this 00:20:03.980 --> 00:20:07.240 is not for me. I think that could have been failure 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.799 for you. Yes. But this felt like a little blip, 00:20:10.819 --> 00:20:13.099 maybe a learning curve, which propels you to 00:20:13.099 --> 00:20:15.440 the next thing. And then, you know, maybe that 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.259 wasn't quite right. And then it propels you to 00:20:17.259 --> 00:20:21.019 the next thing. And then, you know, it's the 00:20:21.019 --> 00:20:24.079 success you saw from that rather than the failure. 00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:27.259 From the other stuff. Yeah. And I think that 00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:29.680 kind of leads into another question I've got 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:31.920 for you is what's your thought on manifestation? 00:20:32.180 --> 00:20:34.880 And the reason I bring this up is because yesterday 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.799 my husband was talking about football match that 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:42.019 the boys were all sort of going on about. And 00:20:42.019 --> 00:20:46.160 he said the player prayed to God to score a hat 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.440 trick the night before the game. He scored a 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.779 hat trick. And then my response to that was, 00:20:51.779 --> 00:20:54.710 do you know what he did? he put himself out there 00:20:54.710 --> 00:21:00.609 the fact that he made that that um vision out 00:21:00.609 --> 00:21:03.109 into the universe meant that he then went for 00:21:03.109 --> 00:21:06.349 it so during the game he was like i need to score 00:21:06.349 --> 00:21:09.309 a hat trick so it wasn't just about the sort 00:21:09.309 --> 00:21:11.730 of you know manifesting and it happened it was 00:21:11.730 --> 00:21:14.069 because he put himself in that place so what's 00:21:14.069 --> 00:21:16.150 your sort of opinion on it and do you think that 00:21:16.150 --> 00:21:19.230 that's something that we can all try to use to 00:21:19.230 --> 00:21:21.640 you know get to where we want to be I think, 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:23.220 you know, to a great extent, the neuroscience 00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:27.279 definitely supports that manifestation does work 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.200 because even at its simplest level, if you think 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:33.299 about manifestation as being able to clearly 00:21:33.299 --> 00:21:40.599 visualize a goal as step one, even that step. 00:21:41.109 --> 00:21:43.369 Definitely, there's so much power in that because 00:21:43.369 --> 00:21:46.269 when you visualize something, what you're doing 00:21:46.269 --> 00:21:49.809 for your brain is you're making the unknown known 00:21:49.809 --> 00:21:52.950 or you're making what is unfamiliar familiar. 00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:57.670 So now your brain knows what to go after. And 00:21:57.670 --> 00:21:59.930 the brain doesn't always differentiate between 00:21:59.930 --> 00:22:02.390 what we're just imagining and what's actually 00:22:02.390 --> 00:22:06.890 there. So I think even that first step is so 00:22:06.890 --> 00:22:09.470 powerful. And then when you combine it with the 00:22:09.470 --> 00:22:13.400 second step, of actually taking action toward 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:16.460 the goal. And I'm a big believer in taking action 00:22:16.460 --> 00:22:20.529 because if we just stop at step one. I wouldn't 00:22:20.529 --> 00:22:23.430 say I'm a big believer in just, you know, sitting 00:22:23.430 --> 00:22:25.650 and visualizing something and waiting for it 00:22:25.650 --> 00:22:28.089 to happen. I don't think that's ever worked for 00:22:28.089 --> 00:22:31.349 me. But the combination of visualizing and then 00:22:31.349 --> 00:22:34.829 taking those concerted steps towards that vision, 00:22:34.910 --> 00:22:36.970 which I think even in your example, it sounds 00:22:36.970 --> 00:22:40.670 like this individual. Yeah. You know, he put 00:22:40.670 --> 00:22:43.069 himself out there and he was there, you know, 00:22:43.069 --> 00:22:45.869 making it happen. I think that combination can 00:22:45.869 --> 00:22:49.160 be a powerful one. And the result of that. could 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:53.160 be manifesting manifesting what you originally 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.619 imagined so yes i i would say from that perspective 00:22:56.619 --> 00:22:58.859 i i believe in it yeah that reminds me of an 00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:00.319 old that you guys have probably all heard this 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:02.019 before but it's like you know this man prays 00:23:02.019 --> 00:23:03.759 to god every night please let me win the lottery 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:05.380 please let me win the lottery please let me win 00:23:05.380 --> 00:23:07.380 the lottery and after like you know 300 days 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:09.460 of this man sending up that prayer god finally 00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:13.240 comes down and says can you buy a ticket It's 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.380 like you have to take the step. You can't just 00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.980 ask for something with no action. And I think 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:21.799 that's such a powerful and obvious but not so 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:25.119 obvious thing sometimes. I think that also speaks 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:28.599 back to the fear aspect and about how women are 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:31.039 not putting themselves out there. They're afraid 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:32.980 to ask for what they want. They're afraid to 00:23:32.980 --> 00:23:36.460 say it in public. And I think this kind of speaks 00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:38.359 to the part in your book where you distinguish 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:42.819 between the I self and the me self. the I self 00:23:42.819 --> 00:23:46.019 is me seeing. And the me self is who is seen, 00:23:46.099 --> 00:23:48.599 right? Can you talk to us about that distinction 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.740 and how that can help women reframe this fear 00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:56.299 of judgment? Yes, yes. So this distinction is 00:23:56.299 --> 00:23:58.259 such an important one. And I was finally able 00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:01.720 to put words to this distinction when I came 00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:04.759 across the work of William James, who's this 00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:08.160 American, famed American psychologist. And he 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.319 talks about how there are two selves, the I self 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:14.299 and the me self, exactly as you said. Me -self 00:24:14.299 --> 00:24:19.420 is when you are looking at yourself through the 00:24:19.420 --> 00:24:22.940 lens of how others would view you. So how is 00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:25.519 the world looking at me? What are they thinking 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:30.799 of me? And how do I appear or seem when I look 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.019 at myself? That sounds like an Asian concept, 00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:37.299 doesn't it? They're like how Asians sort of face. 00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:41.819 Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes. As opposed to the I self, 00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:46.470 which is inside out, which is. where you are 00:24:46.470 --> 00:24:51.369 asking yourself, okay, how do I look at the world? 00:24:51.630 --> 00:24:56.329 What are my perspectives? What is my view? What 00:24:56.329 --> 00:25:03.450 do I value? And the more and more we... really 00:25:03.450 --> 00:25:06.950 anchor our identity in the I self instead of 00:25:06.950 --> 00:25:11.309 the me self, the more secure we feel. And I definitely 00:25:11.309 --> 00:25:13.509 experienced this in my life because for the longest 00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:18.009 time, I was anchored more in the me, thinking 00:25:18.009 --> 00:25:19.869 about, okay, how is the world looking at me? 00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:23.490 Do I look good? And do I, you know, am I really 00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:26.450 checking the box in terms of what would make 00:25:26.450 --> 00:25:31.069 me appear successful and valuable and all of 00:25:31.069 --> 00:25:33.829 those things? And you always feel insecure when 00:25:33.829 --> 00:25:36.569 you're looking at yourself this way because you 00:25:36.569 --> 00:25:38.769 are operating based on the world's definition 00:25:38.769 --> 00:25:42.710 of success, not your own. And what people think 00:25:42.710 --> 00:25:45.170 of you is not within your control. It can shift 00:25:45.170 --> 00:25:48.269 from day to day. So it just leaves you feeling 00:25:48.269 --> 00:25:54.140 so, yeah, so unanchored and insecure. Over time, 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.880 especially for me, this happened as I deepened 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.619 my practice of mindfulness and I realized that 00:26:00.619 --> 00:26:04.220 the only thing I can control is how I show up 00:26:04.220 --> 00:26:06.880 and how I look at the world. And when I started 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.200 doing that more and more and focusing on my choices 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.480 and my actions, just by shifting your focus, 00:26:16.190 --> 00:26:18.849 all those concerns about, well, what are other 00:26:18.849 --> 00:26:21.430 people thinking and how are they viewing me? 00:26:21.509 --> 00:26:25.450 They naturally start to fall into the background 00:26:25.450 --> 00:26:28.890 because now you have given yourself a different 00:26:28.890 --> 00:26:32.670 anchor, a different focus. And going back to 00:26:32.670 --> 00:26:34.769 what we were talking about earlier and with each 00:26:34.769 --> 00:26:37.369 choice, when you also keep affirming yourself 00:26:37.369 --> 00:26:41.230 because you're self -validating and you're building 00:26:41.230 --> 00:26:44.630 yourself up, there's less need for external. 00:26:45.500 --> 00:26:48.500 validation that sounds like the 40s no shit's 00:26:48.500 --> 00:26:51.640 given it's almost like that's right and it reminded 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:53.380 me of another discussion i have with a client 00:26:53.380 --> 00:26:56.380 earlier this week so she was talking about how 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:59.700 she's struggling to not drink alcohol at work 00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:02.200 -related events and it's basically exactly what 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:05.759 you said what will the client think of me right 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:08.779 what will the others think of me if i'm not drinking 00:27:08.779 --> 00:27:12.680 but if she had reframed that into I am someone 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:15.220 who chooses when to have alcohol. That's right. 00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:17.579 Or even, if we want to get real extreme, I am 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:20.279 someone who doesn't drink. Yes. When you are 00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:23.000 confident in the identity that you have formed 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:25.000 for yourself, these questions of what do people 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:26.619 think about me not drinking don't even enter 00:27:26.619 --> 00:27:28.740 your mind. That's right. Because I am someone. 00:27:29.259 --> 00:27:31.200 Who controls myself around alcohol or, you know, 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.279 doesn't drink or whatever it might be. So, you 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:35.460 know, when you get stuck in the me's, I think 00:27:35.460 --> 00:27:38.019 everything is a struggle, man. It just gets so 00:27:38.019 --> 00:27:40.460 hard to operate in a world where all you're thinking 00:27:40.460 --> 00:27:42.680 about is what others might be perceiving of you. 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:44.220 Because, again, you're going to be interacting 00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:45.720 with other people for the rest of your life. 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:48.819 And if everyone's opinion matters, it's going 00:27:48.819 --> 00:27:51.660 to be a long one. So our amazing sponsors, The 00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:53.859 Meat Club, have asked a question for you today. 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.539 And you might know The Meat Club as the home 00:27:55.539 --> 00:27:57.240 of The Conscious Carnivore, which I feel like 00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:59.140 plays beautifully into The Conscious Choice. 00:27:59.299 --> 00:28:02.680 How do you practice conscious choice around diet? 00:28:02.980 --> 00:28:05.099 Are there tips that you can offer our listeners 00:28:05.099 --> 00:28:07.779 for how to choose meals that align with their 00:28:07.779 --> 00:28:12.599 bigger values? That's a great question. So definitely, 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:16.140 I think... conscious choices lend themselves 00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:20.619 to also to your diet, because I think how we 00:28:20.619 --> 00:28:23.380 make choices in one sphere of life definitely 00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:26.019 carry over to other spheres as well. And how 00:28:26.019 --> 00:28:29.099 you do one thing is how you do everything. So 00:28:29.099 --> 00:28:35.839 I think I think absolutely what we put into our 00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:38.160 bodies is something we absolutely need to be 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:42.160 very conscious of. For me, I like to call myself 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:46.680 plant. So I'm not 100 percent plant based, but 00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:49.519 I like to say I'm plant. I follow a plant forward 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.660 diet. So I like to have lots of plant based foods 00:28:52.660 --> 00:28:55.660 in my diet, but also because I'm very, very, 00:28:55.660 --> 00:29:00.420 very big on my fitness as well. And I and and 00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:06.039 I'm very mindful of my protein needs. So I think 00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.400 to that extent, definitely I'm making conscious 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.220 choices about what are the healthy animal sources. 00:29:12.460 --> 00:29:15.619 of protein as well that are grass fed, that are 00:29:15.619 --> 00:29:21.799 cage free, for example, and organic. And I like 00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:24.339 to stock my fridge with things I feel good about. 00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:26.400 Yeah, I love that because mindfulness in our 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:28.660 meals is just as important as mindfulness in 00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:31.599 our choices, our careers, our lives. I love that. 00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:33.960 Yes. I would like to know a little bit more about 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:36.140 the work that you're doing with Sheenomics. It's 00:29:36.140 --> 00:29:39.019 so interesting. You model conscious choices for 00:29:39.019 --> 00:29:41.559 women on a global scale. Yes. Can you talk about 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.880 how Shinomics specifically disrupts these traditional 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.680 systems of leadership and how you can introduce 00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.289 a more mindful model. Yeah, so when I first founded 00:29:52.289 --> 00:29:54.529 Chinomics, and now it's been 10 years, we celebrated 00:29:54.529 --> 00:29:57.630 our 10 year anniversary. Congratulations. Thank 00:29:57.630 --> 00:30:02.970 you. When I first founded Chinomics, it was with 00:30:02.970 --> 00:30:07.970 this idea that we definitely need more leaders 00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:13.130 in the world who are living and leading with 00:30:13.130 --> 00:30:17.849 compassion and consciously. And it just felt 00:30:17.849 --> 00:30:20.980 inherently wrong and unfair. fair when women 00:30:20.980 --> 00:30:25.880 take up half the sky? Why are we not encouraging 00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:31.119 and creating a more inclusive space for women 00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:34.380 to rise as authentic leaders as well? So that 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:36.500 was the aim with which we founded Chinomics. 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:39.859 And over the years, it's been very much about 00:30:39.859 --> 00:30:43.259 not just moving the dial in terms of numbers. 00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:46.240 It's not just about creating more women leaders 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.339 for the sake of creating more women leaders, 00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:52.339 but really supporting women to rise and lead 00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:55.279 in a way that feels authentic for them so that 00:30:55.279 --> 00:31:02.119 in the process of growing in their careers, they 00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:06.680 get to also both embody and role model a form 00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:10.299 of leadership, a new form of leadership that 00:31:10.299 --> 00:31:15.240 is more inclusive, that is more supportive of 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.460 everybody showing up as their. best. And I found 00:31:19.460 --> 00:31:23.039 when we begin from a place of mindfulness and 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.039 self -awareness, which is essentially really 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:28.319 what mindful leadership is about, is beginning 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:32.779 with that strong foundation, that becomes the 00:31:32.779 --> 00:31:38.420 most impactful way to really build that confidence 00:31:38.420 --> 00:31:42.079 from within. because it's not just about changing 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:45.059 yourself on the outside or just learning you 00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:47.720 know five different skills that that make you 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:50.720 a better leader but it's about really going deep 00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:53.920 within to ask yourself what are the internal 00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:57.460 shifts that will that you can make such as the 00:31:57.460 --> 00:31:59.900 distinction between the I self and the me self 00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:05.240 that really allow you to trust yourself more 00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:09.269 because if you look at confidence The word confidence 00:32:09.269 --> 00:32:12.730 comes from the Latin word confidere, which means 00:32:12.730 --> 00:32:17.869 to trust. So confidence in the truest sense is 00:32:17.869 --> 00:32:22.410 about trusting yourself. And that trust can only 00:32:22.410 --> 00:32:25.730 be built within when you bring clarity to who 00:32:25.730 --> 00:32:29.630 you truly are. are and you start to make choices 00:32:29.630 --> 00:32:32.890 with your actions and even with your leadership 00:32:32.890 --> 00:32:35.829 style that really aligns with what you value 00:32:35.829 --> 00:32:38.750 and what you believe in and when you create that 00:32:38.750 --> 00:32:41.789 alignment is when is when you show up authentically 00:32:41.789 --> 00:32:46.089 and yeah with with a set of values that redefine 00:32:46.089 --> 00:32:49.829 leadership It's funny because recently we've 00:32:49.829 --> 00:32:52.650 watched two shows on TV, one on Amazon and one 00:32:52.650 --> 00:32:55.809 on Netflix, with two strong female characters. 00:32:55.970 --> 00:32:59.349 They're like, you know, high position. But I'm 00:32:59.349 --> 00:33:00.930 going to be honest, I didn't like the characters 00:33:00.930 --> 00:33:04.250 of both of them. I felt like they are portraying 00:33:04.250 --> 00:33:06.829 that women who are in leadership roles need to 00:33:06.829 --> 00:33:09.109 be cutthroat. They need to be bitches. They need 00:33:09.109 --> 00:33:12.450 to basically not give a shit about anyone because 00:33:12.450 --> 00:33:14.170 otherwise no one's going to take you seriously. 00:33:14.390 --> 00:33:19.940 Do you think that's the right? um view of women 00:33:19.940 --> 00:33:22.619 in leadership roles or do you think that there 00:33:22.619 --> 00:33:25.619 might be a genuine like a different way or a 00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:27.779 genuine way that you can still be authentic still 00:33:27.779 --> 00:33:30.079 be yourself but not have to be a complete bitch 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:33.839 to get to the top you know a lot of this happens 00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:38.980 unconsciously um whenever i hear things like 00:33:38.980 --> 00:33:43.029 and and i do often hear that For example, there 00:33:43.029 --> 00:33:45.049 aren't enough women helping other women. And 00:33:45.049 --> 00:33:47.430 why is it that when some women get to the top, 00:33:47.490 --> 00:33:49.950 they're not extending that helping hand forward 00:33:49.950 --> 00:33:54.839 to pull other women up? And same is true with 00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:56.859 their leadership style as well. I think what 00:33:56.859 --> 00:34:01.019 happens in both of those instances is there is 00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:05.440 this preset model of leadership and what a leader 00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.900 looks like and behaves like. And historically, 00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:13.659 it has been defined very narrowly and often. 00:34:14.139 --> 00:34:17.400 according to the masculine definition of leadership 00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:21.760 and so unconsciously many of us sometimes feel 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.119 like okay in order to prove myself in order to 00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:29.500 be accepted as a leader I need to adopt certain 00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:35.190 forms of showing up And when that goes against 00:34:35.190 --> 00:34:40.030 the notion of how women should be, then, you 00:34:40.030 --> 00:34:43.070 know, that style appears very aggressive for 00:34:43.070 --> 00:34:46.750 women. I think it happens unconsciously, but 00:34:46.750 --> 00:34:51.570 consciously we can choose. to define our own 00:34:51.570 --> 00:34:55.610 way of showing up. And it need not be any of, 00:34:55.730 --> 00:34:59.230 it need not be whatever is the prevailing model 00:34:59.230 --> 00:35:02.170 of leadership or something that doesn't fit right 00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:05.190 with you. I've seen leaders who are incredibly 00:35:05.190 --> 00:35:08.250 compassionate, who are incredibly kind, who are 00:35:08.250 --> 00:35:13.599 so, you know. collaborative and inclusive and 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:18.280 loved by everyone and are equally effective still. 00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:22.059 So this is not about either or. So you can still 00:35:22.059 --> 00:35:25.349 be a good leader. Oh, absolutely. Yes. I think 00:35:25.349 --> 00:35:27.170 that's the big thing, isn't it? This is the thesis 00:35:27.170 --> 00:35:29.829 of my friend, Dr. Kate Mason's book, Powerfully 00:35:29.829 --> 00:35:32.230 Likeable. Yes. Oh, I love that. That power and 00:35:32.230 --> 00:35:34.869 likability are not ends of a continuum. Yes. 00:35:34.929 --> 00:35:38.269 And in fact, if you are likable, it is very much 00:35:38.269 --> 00:35:41.949 more possible to be powerful because people like. 00:35:43.250 --> 00:35:45.730 People respond to people that are positive and 00:35:45.730 --> 00:35:47.650 likable. It's not that you have to turn that 00:35:47.650 --> 00:35:51.050 part of you off to seize power. And I think that, 00:35:51.090 --> 00:35:53.630 like you said, it's an outdated masculinist view 00:35:53.630 --> 00:35:57.630 of power that we are above by this point in 2025. 00:35:57.929 --> 00:36:00.889 We are beyond that. So it's almost like regressing 00:36:00.889 --> 00:36:03.869 yourself to play into these tropes from TV, which 00:36:03.869 --> 00:36:06.269 are like, I have to be like a man to be powerful. 00:36:06.429 --> 00:36:09.389 It's like, ugh, like writers, get with it. Exactly, 00:36:09.510 --> 00:36:12.079 you're becoming so woke on everything else. Can 00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:16.340 we not have like a female president represented 00:36:16.340 --> 00:36:18.559 on TV with like, you know, a big boxy shoulder 00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.059 thing and a short haircut? And again, nothing 00:36:21.059 --> 00:36:22.880 wrong with those choices. What I'm saying is 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.840 they're not the only choice to represent power. 00:36:26.119 --> 00:36:29.300 Oh, I'm over it. As you can hear in my voice. 00:36:30.090 --> 00:36:33.050 You have so many good parables and stories and 00:36:33.050 --> 00:36:35.789 metaphors in your book, connecting these messages 00:36:35.789 --> 00:36:38.570 about mindfulness and conscious living. Can you 00:36:38.570 --> 00:36:41.150 share a real life story, right? So I love me 00:36:41.150 --> 00:36:43.969 a good metaphor and a good symbolism, but can 00:36:43.969 --> 00:36:45.789 you share with me a real life story of a client 00:36:45.789 --> 00:36:48.550 you've worked with that has really made these 00:36:48.550 --> 00:36:50.829 shifts you're talking about, adopted a new identity, 00:36:51.030 --> 00:36:54.449 become more confident, has more I am affirming 00:36:54.449 --> 00:36:56.369 statements. Like talk to me about a real person. 00:36:56.550 --> 00:36:58.789 Oh, absolutely. There's so many examples, but 00:36:58.789 --> 00:37:00.690 one in particular. really stands out is because 00:37:00.690 --> 00:37:02.650 I just had a conversation with her a few days 00:37:02.650 --> 00:37:05.429 ago. So I started coaching her two years ago, 00:37:05.510 --> 00:37:09.389 and she's a senior leader in a corporate organization. 00:37:09.789 --> 00:37:13.090 And at the time, I remember she was very, very 00:37:13.090 --> 00:37:15.409 nervous about making any kinds of changes in 00:37:15.409 --> 00:37:17.570 her life, even though even at the time she was 00:37:17.570 --> 00:37:19.289 telling me, Pavna, there's this voice inside 00:37:19.289 --> 00:37:23.329 me that keeps saying, I need to find my own path. 00:37:23.449 --> 00:37:28.989 I need to find my own unique voice. Given the 00:37:28.989 --> 00:37:31.150 level of fear she was experiencing at that time, 00:37:31.190 --> 00:37:34.710 she wasn't ready to take any big leaps per se. 00:37:35.130 --> 00:37:38.469 But because she was so committed, so persistent, 00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:42.809 she kept taking those baby steps, those micro 00:37:42.809 --> 00:37:45.210 steps, those micro choices that we've been talking 00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:49.750 about today. And here we are now, like almost 00:37:49.750 --> 00:37:55.880 two years later, she told me she is... Now starting 00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:59.920 her startup. So she's finally chosen the entrepreneur 00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:06.179 path. And her exact words to me were, Pavna, 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.360 thank you for helping me listen to that small 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:14.320 voice inside that always believed I could do 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:19.699 this. So I was just a catalyst in her journey 00:38:19.699 --> 00:38:24.610 because it's always... I think for so many of 00:38:24.610 --> 00:38:28.889 us as women, our sense of intuition is... there 00:38:28.889 --> 00:38:33.610 is strong it's just about pausing and tuning 00:38:33.610 --> 00:38:36.409 out that external voice so that you can really 00:38:36.409 --> 00:38:39.309 listen to that small voice inside because it 00:38:39.309 --> 00:38:42.070 does have so much wisdom so much guidance for 00:38:42.070 --> 00:38:45.230 you and if you follow it which what which is 00:38:45.230 --> 00:38:47.409 where we began our conversation with if you follow 00:38:47.409 --> 00:38:50.630 that voice even if it feels scary you can be 00:38:50.630 --> 00:38:52.849 sure it's going to lead you to someplace really 00:38:52.849 --> 00:38:56.780 beautiful in terms of your growth even if things 00:38:56.780 --> 00:39:00.239 don't work out exactly as you had imagined. So 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:02.780 here she is. And I couldn't be more proud with 00:39:02.780 --> 00:39:05.519 the kind of leaps that she's taken. And there's 00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.980 so many other stories like that. But each time, 00:39:08.980 --> 00:39:11.199 I think what I've seen, the pattern I've seen 00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:15.280 is finally learning to, yes, that trust yourself 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:20.239 and take those steps forward. Is there a situation 00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:24.340 where you would say maybe that voice? isn't in 00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:27.300 line with your beliefs or in line with your values. 00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:31.760 And maybe that voice doesn't need to be louder 00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:33.559 and you should quiet it. Like, is there a situation 00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:38.019 where that has ever come about? So the voice 00:39:38.019 --> 00:39:44.500 I've noticed is usually starts off as the quieter 00:39:44.500 --> 00:39:48.949 voice. Typically, what I like to say is I think 00:39:48.949 --> 00:39:52.170 we all have these two voices. On one hand, you 00:39:52.170 --> 00:39:55.070 have your inner critic, which tends to be very 00:39:55.070 --> 00:39:58.110 loud. And that's the voice in us that normally 00:39:58.110 --> 00:40:01.409 stops us and will make you question what you're 00:40:01.409 --> 00:40:05.030 doing or what you're saying. But then we also 00:40:05.030 --> 00:40:07.769 have this voice that I like to call your inner 00:40:07.769 --> 00:40:10.329 coach or your inner mentor or your inner guide. 00:40:10.929 --> 00:40:18.329 That tends to be a softer voice. And if we don't 00:40:18.329 --> 00:40:22.650 pause long enough to recognize what it's saying 00:40:22.650 --> 00:40:26.530 to us, there could be this danger of mistaking 00:40:26.530 --> 00:40:31.550 the inner critic's voice as our own voice. So 00:40:31.550 --> 00:40:34.699 yes, that can happen. What I'm imagining here 00:40:34.699 --> 00:40:36.559 is that I'm visualising a devil on your shoulder 00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:37.760 and an angel on your shoulder and, you know, 00:40:37.780 --> 00:40:39.539 both of them are talking to you. And it's almost 00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:42.760 like the Pinocchio story where, you know, I think, 00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:45.519 isn't the cricket called a conscious? Yeah, he's 00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:48.239 a conscious. Yes, he is. So it's almost like 00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:52.269 the quieter voice is your truth. True self, your 00:40:52.269 --> 00:40:54.269 true voice. Yeah, but sometimes you flick them 00:40:54.269 --> 00:40:58.789 off your shoulder. Get off me, Jiminy. But you're 00:40:58.789 --> 00:41:01.210 right. And I do think, you know, you mentioned 00:41:01.210 --> 00:41:04.190 that inner voice, that inner coach. But I love 00:41:04.190 --> 00:41:05.710 the example that you gave with your client previously 00:41:05.710 --> 00:41:08.869 because I do think there's a lot of power in 00:41:08.869 --> 00:41:11.449 an outer coach. I mean, obviously, making coaching 00:41:11.449 --> 00:41:13.869 my career, I have to say that. But also because 00:41:13.869 --> 00:41:16.349 I read a lot of parenting literature, right? 00:41:16.409 --> 00:41:18.789 I'm a very conscious parent, try to be, you know, 00:41:18.789 --> 00:41:21.460 don't always succeed. And they say that for kids. 00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:25.719 Kids need, obviously, a parent. But in absence 00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:28.380 of good parenting, kids need what's called a 00:41:28.380 --> 00:41:31.440 charismatic adult. They need somebody that might 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.199 be a teacher, that might be a therapist, that 00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:35.000 might be a social worker. They need somebody 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.659 that actively, enthusiastically delights in them, 00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:42.500 believes in them, listens to them. And I think 00:41:42.500 --> 00:41:45.420 we all need that. And particularly this inner 00:41:45.420 --> 00:41:48.039 voice that might be quieter for some folks and 00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:50.780 might be almost silenced by the critic. I think 00:41:50.780 --> 00:41:53.519 that they do sometimes need a charismatic adult, 00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:57.460 a real person that's like, hey, you know, that's 00:41:57.460 --> 00:41:59.860 a great idea. You have good ideas. You are a 00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:02.760 capable person. A lot of women have not heard 00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:05.940 that. And that's heartbreaking to me. Yes, yes. 00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:09.579 Now, I think we all develop blind spots and you 00:42:09.579 --> 00:42:13.320 can't always see. everything clearly or even 00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:17.820 see yourself clearly. And when in those situations, 00:42:17.980 --> 00:42:21.199 especially when an external charismatic, caring 00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:27.340 voice can can look at you and affirm what they 00:42:27.340 --> 00:42:30.440 see in terms of your potential and what you can 00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:33.280 do and what you are capable of. I think that 00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:37.079 that can be hugely impactful in a little positive 00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.579 me self. Right. Like I'm an external, you know, 00:42:39.579 --> 00:42:41.119 I'm an external person. But let me tell you about. 00:42:41.629 --> 00:42:44.469 how well you're doing yes so gal this is time 00:42:44.469 --> 00:42:45.889 for a little feature on our show that we love 00:42:45.889 --> 00:42:47.489 just a fun little kind of popcorn feature called 00:42:47.489 --> 00:42:50.010 hot or hype so i'm going to pitch you some ideas 00:42:50.010 --> 00:42:51.949 and kind of self -help self -improvement you 00:42:51.949 --> 00:42:53.809 tell me if you think it's hot legit you think 00:42:53.809 --> 00:42:58.929 it's hype okay okay vision boards Hmm. Um, I'm 00:42:58.929 --> 00:43:02.369 going to go with, uh, I, this one I'm, I'm on 00:43:02.369 --> 00:43:04.570 the fence about, but if I really have to lean 00:43:04.570 --> 00:43:08.869 one way or the other, I would say hype. Oh, I 00:43:08.869 --> 00:43:10.130 thought, I thought you were going to tip hot. 00:43:10.210 --> 00:43:11.809 Yeah. I thought you were going to say hot. Tell 00:43:11.809 --> 00:43:15.179 me, tell me why it's hypey. Because. Only because 00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:18.139 if that's all we're doing, if that's the only 00:43:18.139 --> 00:43:20.119 step, I think going back to our previous conversation, 00:43:20.420 --> 00:43:23.039 if it's if that's all we're doing and sometimes 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:25.199 there is this danger of thinking, OK, as long 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.699 as I've created this vision board, then that's 00:43:27.699 --> 00:43:30.590 it. It's going to just manifest itself. So provided 00:43:30.590 --> 00:43:33.190 that's only step one and then step two is you 00:43:33.190 --> 00:43:36.010 are taking concerted action, then yes, then I'm 00:43:36.010 --> 00:43:38.550 all for vision boards. Yeah, I hear you, girl. 00:43:38.590 --> 00:43:39.590 It's one of those things where it's like, and 00:43:39.590 --> 00:43:42.809 also how much time did you spend on that vision 00:43:42.809 --> 00:43:44.630 board that you could have been, you know, like 00:43:44.630 --> 00:43:46.869 pitching an agent or, you know, like doing something 00:43:46.869 --> 00:43:48.369 that would actually get you the thing that you 00:43:48.369 --> 00:43:51.869 need to do. I hear you. Meditation retreats. 00:43:53.889 --> 00:43:57.309 I'm going to say hype. Wow. See, I thought you'd 00:43:57.309 --> 00:44:00.159 be all pro. Tell me why hype. Okay, and again, 00:44:00.219 --> 00:44:02.199 I think it all depends on the kind of approach 00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:07.039 you're taking to it. If meditation retreat is 00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:10.800 to deepen your practice, strengthen your practice, 00:44:10.980 --> 00:44:14.199 then I think it's beautiful. But if meditation 00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:18.940 retreat is something that you're only doing on 00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:22.920 a one -off basis, it's not something you are 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:28.039 actively in a sustainable way. choosing and practicing 00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.460 every single day and just once a year you say 00:44:30.460 --> 00:44:34.139 okay i'll go to a meditation retreat to make 00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:36.860 everything go better yeah it's the juice detox 00:44:36.860 --> 00:44:40.840 of mindfulness it's like i'll take three days 00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:43.380 and clear it out yeah ready for more trash yeah 00:44:43.380 --> 00:44:45.920 so if it's a one -off choice i don't think it's 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:48.139 going to have the kind of impact that it could 00:44:48.139 --> 00:44:51.460 have but if it's something yeah if it's to reaffirm 00:44:51.460 --> 00:44:54.559 reinforce what you're already practicing It's 00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:56.940 awesome. Have you done one? Yes. Have you done 00:44:56.940 --> 00:44:59.719 like a silent retreat? Yes. In fact, my whole 00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:03.079 mindfulness journey began with doing 10 days 00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:05.840 of what is called Vipassana meditation, where 00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:08.780 you meditate for 10 hours a day and complete 00:45:08.780 --> 00:45:13.010 silence. It was a game changer. I can imagine 00:45:13.010 --> 00:45:16.630 that was a game changer. That's like a meditation 00:45:16.630 --> 00:45:20.349 hard stop. You took off of everything to do that 00:45:20.349 --> 00:45:22.650 for 10 days. Was that at the beginning of your 00:45:22.650 --> 00:45:24.230 entrepreneurial journey? It was at the beginning 00:45:24.230 --> 00:45:26.900 of my journey. Now I can't even imagine going 00:45:26.900 --> 00:45:31.800 away for 10 days as a mom to do that. But I'm 00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:35.179 glad, yes, it created that strong foundation 00:45:35.179 --> 00:45:37.679 and I've tried to sustain that practice since 00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:40.699 then. That's amazing. The soft life movement. 00:45:41.380 --> 00:45:44.860 I'm going to say hot. Yeah. Okay, I don't know 00:45:44.860 --> 00:45:46.539 what the soft life movement is. Have I missed 00:45:46.539 --> 00:45:48.019 something? It's basically getting out of the 00:45:48.019 --> 00:45:52.599 rat race. So it's like a mindful disengagement 00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:56.179 with... success the you know uh you know the 00:45:56.179 --> 00:45:57.619 race for better grades better schools better 00:45:57.619 --> 00:46:00.820 jobs better it's like i won't do that i'm going 00:46:00.820 --> 00:46:09.079 to live on a farm and yeah i say that i don't 00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:12.599 think the soft life necessarily means abandoning 00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:16.699 our ambition but it's defining ambition on your 00:46:16.699 --> 00:46:19.469 own terms which is what our conversation today 00:46:19.469 --> 00:46:22.309 has been about. It's about choosing for yourself 00:46:22.309 --> 00:46:24.829 when you're ready to accelerate, when you're 00:46:24.829 --> 00:46:27.489 ready to slow down, what kind of boundaries you 00:46:27.489 --> 00:46:29.429 want to set for yourself, what you want to say 00:46:29.429 --> 00:46:31.889 no to, what you want to say yes to. So it's just 00:46:31.889 --> 00:46:34.929 a more thoughtful, conscious approach to moving 00:46:34.929 --> 00:46:37.650 ahead. But it need not mean giving up everything 00:46:37.650 --> 00:46:41.929 or moving to a farm or moving to, you know. Being 00:46:41.929 --> 00:46:45.050 a Buddhist monastery. It reminds me, are you 00:46:45.050 --> 00:46:46.789 familiar with Neha Rush and the power pause? 00:46:47.170 --> 00:46:50.679 No. Basically the idea that you can consciously, 00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:55.360 mindfully, and powerfully choose to not work 00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:58.260 in the early stages or continuing stages of motherhood. 00:46:58.590 --> 00:47:01.969 So it's not that you are now a stay -at -home 00:47:01.969 --> 00:47:05.170 mom. It's that I have chosen this time to do 00:47:05.170 --> 00:47:07.809 this act of mothering in the way that I want 00:47:07.809 --> 00:47:09.409 to do it and that there's power in that choice. 00:47:09.489 --> 00:47:11.150 So I think that's like a version of the soft 00:47:11.150 --> 00:47:14.230 life movement, I think. Yeah, that's one choice 00:47:14.230 --> 00:47:16.849 that didn't make it into my book. The choice 00:47:16.849 --> 00:47:20.429 between calling something a sacrifice versus 00:47:20.429 --> 00:47:24.250 a decision. And especially what you're talking 00:47:24.250 --> 00:47:27.670 about in terms of taking that pause after motherhood, 00:47:27.690 --> 00:47:30.309 instead of thinking, oh, I made a sacrifice or 00:47:30.309 --> 00:47:32.750 I'm sacrificing my career to raise my children 00:47:32.750 --> 00:47:35.889 or vice versa, to actually say I'm consciously 00:47:35.889 --> 00:47:38.789 choosing this because I value this. I value this 00:47:38.789 --> 00:47:41.610 time with my family. And when I'm ready, I'll 00:47:41.610 --> 00:47:44.869 know when I'm ready to recommit to my professional 00:47:44.869 --> 00:47:47.309 life as well. So, yes. And I wonder how much 00:47:47.309 --> 00:47:49.909 of that. is the identity you know if you've built 00:47:49.909 --> 00:47:52.050 your whole identity around your job your career 00:47:52.050 --> 00:47:58.210 then when you do take a break to um raise your 00:47:58.210 --> 00:48:02.909 children that feels more out of line with who 00:48:03.610 --> 00:48:05.650 You were. That's right. But you can make that 00:48:05.650 --> 00:48:08.269 into it. Well, that was who I was. But now this 00:48:08.269 --> 00:48:11.730 is who I am. Oh, yeah. It's a new I am statement. 00:48:11.730 --> 00:48:13.949 Yeah. I mean, I see this with fitness all the 00:48:13.949 --> 00:48:15.750 time. Yeah. You know, I'm working on a book on 00:48:15.750 --> 00:48:18.030 fitness and motherhood. Yeah. And identity is 00:48:18.030 --> 00:48:20.369 at the center of the book because a lot of women 00:48:20.369 --> 00:48:23.800 are. They decide that they have sacrificed their 00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:27.079 bodies to become a mother. And that's the end 00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.179 of fitness time. And now it's motherhood time. 00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:31.480 And it's like, but what if motherhood time and 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.360 fitness time were the same time? You know, what 00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:37.079 if you could see an identity that was a fit mother? 00:48:37.949 --> 00:48:39.829 Correct. And then once that becomes resonant 00:48:39.829 --> 00:48:41.469 for you, then the world's your oyster. Yeah. 00:48:41.590 --> 00:48:43.489 Really, truly. So, Gal, we've come to the end 00:48:43.489 --> 00:48:45.289 of the interview and you have given us incredible 00:48:45.289 --> 00:48:47.349 amounts to think about. And I encourage everyone 00:48:47.349 --> 00:48:48.849 to read your book because, guys, this is the 00:48:48.849 --> 00:48:52.010 tip of the iceberg for conscious choice. But 00:48:52.010 --> 00:48:54.429 we'd love to know from you, what is your 40s 00:48:54.429 --> 00:48:56.530 formula? For our listeners out there who are 00:48:56.530 --> 00:48:59.130 looking for ways to thrive in this decade, what 00:48:59.130 --> 00:49:05.340 can you offer them? I think. My 40s formula is 00:49:05.340 --> 00:49:11.000 constantly telling myself that I'm not done yet. 00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:14.599 You know, it's constantly reminding myself that 00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:17.840 wherever I may be, in whatever phase of life, 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:21.440 and especially now, that this is not the end 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:27.320 of the story. If anything, I can use this phase 00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.699 of my life with the kind of... experience and 00:49:31.699 --> 00:49:35.179 wisdom that comes for so many of us by the time 00:49:35.179 --> 00:49:38.460 we reach our 40s I can use that as a launch pad 00:49:38.460 --> 00:49:43.860 to really reignite or reinvent myself in bigger 00:49:43.860 --> 00:49:47.710 and bolder ways so the next few decades of my 00:49:47.710 --> 00:49:51.550 life look even more remarkable. So I think it's, 00:49:51.550 --> 00:49:55.010 it's that conscious choice to really think of 00:49:55.010 --> 00:49:57.710 it, not as a stopping point, but as a launch 00:49:57.710 --> 00:50:01.969 pad for, for even greater impact and, and, and 00:50:01.969 --> 00:50:04.650 living. Yes. Incredible. Yeah. We are not out 00:50:04.650 --> 00:50:08.989 to pasture, man. Lots of living to do. Yes. Well, 00:50:09.250 --> 00:50:10.909 thank you so much for being with us today. We 00:50:10.909 --> 00:50:12.989 have loved interviewing Bhavna. Thank you. Thank 00:50:12.989 --> 00:50:14.969 you. It was lovely speaking to you both. Thank 00:50:14.969 --> 00:50:47.539 you. Bye. I'm trying to figure out how to dress 00:50:47.539 --> 00:50:49.639 the children because my children are skinny and 00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:52.079 they get cold like they were cold the other day 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.000 in Singapore. They're skinny Singaporean children. 00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:58.539 It has been a little colder lately. So I was 00:50:58.539 --> 00:51:00.599 just like right okay how many layers do they 00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:03.199 need and then I've realized okay well you can't 00:51:03.199 --> 00:51:05.840 do cotton because if they start sweating it's 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:08.179 going to absorb it and then I'm like oh god I 00:51:08.179 --> 00:51:09.860 was like planning on getting them vests and thermals 00:51:09.860 --> 00:51:11.280 and then I'm like well all the vests are cotton 00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:14.119 vests. No! because I need to figure out how to 00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:16.460 dress them. I'm confused. Even though I grew 00:51:16.460 --> 00:51:18.539 up in England, it doesn't get that cold. There 00:51:18.539 --> 00:51:20.820 we just wear, you know, like two layers. And 00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:23.260 again, I've blocked that part of my memory of 00:51:23.260 --> 00:51:24.199 cold winters.