Asian parenting is all about parents hitting
their children with a cane. Western parenting
is about just letting your kids do whatever they
want. Asian parents have their kids under control.
You do what I tell you to do because I'm your
parent. Sometimes I lose with them. Gentle parenting
or conscious parenting basically means that you
just let your kids do. Modern parenting feels
like standing at the crossroads of a thousand
cultures, expectations, and Instagram opinions,
and somehow we're supposed to navigate it all
with grace, humor, and zero guilt. Today, we're
diving into the messy but fascinating collision
of Asian and Western parenting, the stereotypes
that we all secretly still believe, the values
we inherited and maybe swore we'd never repeat,
and the ways that globalization has changed how
we parent our kids. We're asking the questions
that you only whisper to your mom friends. Is
tiger mom a bad word? How do we raise resilient
kids? Is mom guilt universal? And how on earth
do we keep up with our tweens and teens who live
in a world moving faster than any rule book that
we grew up with? If you've ever felt caught between
cultures, between eras, or between who you thought
you'd be as a parent and who you actually ended
up being, pull up a chair. This conversation
is about to get real. And if you felt like this
roundtable discussion was worth a listen, please
like, subscribe, and share it with a mummy friend
who might want to join in the fun. Did you know
you can download our free ebook for insider tips,
tricks from our expert guests? Just visit the40sformula
.com and get yours today. All right. Welcome,
ladies. Thank you so much for being with us here
on The 40s Formula today. We are so happy that
you're here. Let's talk about the elephant in
the room, okay? The biggest misconceptions that
people have about Asian parenting or about Western
parenting. And again, you can comment on vice
versa as well. Any thoughts? I think people think
that, you know, Asian parenting is all about
parents hitting their children with a cane. I
mean, in Singapore, unfortunately, that trope
is real. And I think a lot of Asians might think
that, you know, Western parenting is about just
letting your kids do whatever they want. Which
I've also heard. Yeah, I think permissiveness
is like the undercurrent of that Western parenting
stereotype. Cornelia, what do you think? Yeah,
I agree with the perception of Asian. parents
thinking that Western parents are very permissive.
I don't think that all Westerners think that
Asian parent is just about hitting. I think there's
one really big cliche is like Asian parents have
their kids under control and all the Asian kids
are very well behaved. And I think that's that's
one of the things that Westerners really believe
all the time when they go out and then causes
a lot of envy, I think. Yeah, I think envy is
a good way to say it. I think, you know, a lot
of times when we talk about stereotypes, it's
like immediately, oh, you must think it's wrong
or negative or bad. But I think you're right.
I think the Western perception of Asian parenting
is like, wow, all those kids are so well behaved.
They are so great at school. They are so respectful.
Very good at math. I didn't say you said it.
And like they're so respectful of their elders.
Like, wow, they are model children, that type
of thing. You know, I think it's more of a net
positive. But again, stereotypes are still stereotypes.
right what do you think Jasmine it's really weird
um obviously because I I come from an Asian background
grew up in England so I can see both sides and
I just feel like okay um when it comes to Asian
parenting I feel like there is a bit more I guess
I don't know like the way I would see it is I
would say there's a bit more strictness to it
I feel like you would probably say what how you
would expect your kids to behave and you would
expect them to respond in that way but i can
tell you my kids do not respond in that way they
100 percent um i will i will try to bring that
whole asian thing in you know about respect and
doing this and being a certain way and then i
just realize sometimes it's like i have to pick
my battles with them because they just will do
what they want. Yeah. Well, that's kind of my
question is like, does the East West thing even
exist anymore? Like I think about comedians that
I follow and they'll, you know, kind of do impressions
of their Asian moms or whatever. And I think
it's super funny. And like my husband thinks
it's funny because he grew up that way, et cetera.
But like, would our kids find that trope funny?
Would that, you know, like does, does the East
West Asian parenting thing even exist in your
opinion? Um, I think it's changing because, you
know, the, The world is expanding. And I think
with like social media, with, you know, reading
books, a lot of this information comes from West,
whether it's gentle parenting, respectful parenting,
things that I never experienced when I'm growing
up. And I think kids either mirror or they rebel
against what they were brought up with. So I
don't know for my kids, but I think they will
look to the way that they were parented and continue
that way until something changes or calls for
a change. My grandparents were parented the same
way as my parents, but then that, I think, I
would like the thing stopped with me. Yeah. Can
you expand on that? Like what's similar about
your grandparents and parents that's different
with you? I think it was just a very traditional
setup. I think it was a very top -down setup.
Respect is a huge thing in Asian cultures. do
you do what I tell you to do because I'm your
parent like no arguments no fighting back against
it and just follow yeah no questioning right
I mean I've tried that but I get the talk back
I'm like oh this is not fucking working now we're
having a conversation okay what's that about
explain myself what I've been different in these
kind of parenting setups right and I feel it's
less of a um a west east difference than it is
a traditional to less traditional difference.
Interesting. Because the Asian way, as we want
to describe it, used to be very much the way
in the culture I came from a couple of generations
ago. And I feel in the 60s, like the after war
generations, is where a lot of these walls actually
broke down and people started to think differently.
They were rebelling against the top down authoritarian
cultures. And parenting was. part of that like
they didn't want to be like when i'm german like
the like the nazi kind of parents they wanted
to be very consciously different so you had a
very permissive the kind of anti -authoritarian
um kind of way of looking at things and similar
revolutions were happening in the us and the
uk and so on so i think rather than thinking
of it as west east it is more of a traditional
society to less traditional society and that's
what we see in because now asian cultures are
still more traditional in their whole family
set up yeah yeah i think you're right i mean
obviously i'm married into a traditional asian
family and we do live with my in -laws i was
talking about that off air and it is traditional
in a sense Right. In that in that obviously it
appears traditional in the setup of it. And I
think that we do a lot of kind of, you know,
for example, like once a year we go to the crematorium
and we do we offer the prayers and we burn the
Joss papers and stuff like we do traditional
acts. But in the same sense. It's very non -traditional
on the ground in our house. Do you know what
I'm saying? Like what actually happens in terms
of how we raise our kids? You know, Jasmine knows
I'm a huge sleep training mom. So that's very
different from a lot of traditional Asian cultures
and how they view sleep in bedtimes. And so,
yeah, the actual appearance might look very traditional,
but then the nitty gritties are very non -traditional.
Can you share with us three values from your
own upbringing and whatever those values may
be, whether you... share those values in your
own parenting now or whether you've actually
kind of tried to rewrite the script on those
to continue off you know what I was talking about
that top down you know respect me just because
um thing I think that was very evident in my
household um but I felt like I've come out of
that because I mean respect is important but
then for me now I've rebelled against that more
towards um explaining to my kids that respect
is two -way it's not just me telling you what
you know i think you should do i think respect
boundaries and yeah mutual respect basically
so that's how i've you know come out of of what
i was brought up in uh something that was i remember
my mom saying to me um growing up was that um
this other kid you're not better than this other
kid But this other kid is also not better than
you. So don't go in into a room thinking like,
you know, I'm the shit, you know, kind of thing.
But also know that that person doesn't have control
or power over you. And I felt like that was very
empowering for me. I really like that. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think when you mentioned respect
versus mutual respect. It's like it is the same
value. Respect is respect. Yes, exactly. But
making it a little bit more maybe refined or
clear that it's two directional and we all deserve
respect. Kind of making it a more communal value,
I think, is how you've spun it differently. Yes.
I also love that because that's one of the things
actually that I teach in my classes. That, you
know, if you role model respect, you have to
also give respect. And then people mix up respect
with having to do what the other one wants from
you. And that's not respect. It's about actually
understanding what is respect. So what is respect
in German culture? Well, I don't know about German
culture. I can just tell you what I think respect
is. So I actually have a very similar value that
I grew up with, like this very top -down, you
have to be respectful. I come from a very traditional
family. There wasn't a lot of... rebellion revolution
you know that happened after the war in my family
so um i really didn't like that as a child and
i really wanted to have my children know that
i'm also listening to them because that is respect
to me i'm not just deciding for you i recognize
you as a human being who has the right to have
feelings wants wishes that doesn't mean that
i need to give it to you you know the circumstances
may not allow it or it may not be the best thing
for you but at least I'm listening to and I can
acknowledge that that it's okay to want that
it may not be okay to get it but and I think
that's respect I listen to you yeah I like that
and I think that's one of the things that I think
as we were growing up you know that we we were
just told what to do and we couldn't question
it and I think sometimes I wonder whether I'm
i don't know edging on tiger mom but we can talk
about that later i do want to hear what the edge
of tiger mom but then i also do think that you
know if my if my boys are upset i will say look
you've got the right to be upset i get it i understand
it but sometimes i lose my shit with them and
i don't you know i don't know how to come back
from that sometimes and and i and i wonder and
i don't know if this is a preconceived misconception
on my part but i wonder whether you know you
think that right gentle parenting or conscious
parenting basically means that you just let your
kids do what they want and you know you shouldn't
get angry at them is that is that a right thought
to have so first of all it doesn't have anything
to do with you allow everything in my understanding
of conscious parenting conscious parenting for
me just means I am making a very conscious choice
about what I'm doing I'm making a very conscious
choice about the like kind of the things or rules
I require. And I'm understanding my goal. I understand
my emotions. Like, why am I losing my shit for
existence? Consciously losing my shit. No, no.
I'm consciously quite aware of what am I triggered
about. And if I, you know, if I still think that
I had, I think I should have been angry about
that. Maybe I was angry in a way that I didn't
like, then I can say sorry about it and apologize.
But I think it's very important to understand
that to parent, you have to have a hierarchy.
You cannot parent if you don't have a hierarchy.
You have to be the one who's holding the room.
You have to be the one who is enforcing the rules,
because otherwise you're very disorientating
to your children. Right. You need to help your
children to understand the world. They come from,
you know, just receiving whatever their body
is and then to slowly receiving information about
the world. They need guidance. and i think that
actually having an emotional response to somebody
um for what they're doing maybe they're crossing
boundaries or they're doing something that's
hurtful is important the question is where in
the scale of emotions do we have it do we have
like have a controlled emotion like saying look
this is really upsetting me i really don't like
it or am i totally going overboard with my emotion
right and i think if we consciously try to get
a bit lower on that scale so that we can actually
demonstrate self -regulation. That's great. But
we're all parents for the first time. Once you
have your first child, we need to also learn
that. And I think that's where we have to practice
self -compassion and just forgiveness to ourselves
and learn like, and also teach what do we do
if we mess up? Yeah. And what do we do when we
mess up? Well, you go and apologize and actually
maybe explain what happened. and try to do better
next time if you think you messed up so actually
i okay so maybe you know i made that comment
about me being a bit of a tiger mom actually
i might be a conscious tiger mom i did apologize
so the other day i had a really busy busy day
and i feel like my energy by the end of the evening
was just flat and then one of my boys was being
annoying and he kept coming out of his bedroom
then it's getting to 10 o 'clock and i just wanted
some chill time i just needed to have my drink,
which is not alcohol. It's like a kombucha. I
just wanted to watch a bit of trash TV and I
just needed some time out. But he kept coming
out of his bedroom. I kind of get it. It was
his birthday the next day. So he was a bit anxious,
you know. And I was just like, I cannot. And
then I think I must have shouted at him, like,
just go to bed. And then he obviously was upset.
And then I found out afterwards that my other
son, his twin brother was snoring, which was
part of the reason why he couldn't sleep. So
I had to go upstairs and I hugged him and I apologized.
And then the next day I had to explain to him,
look, I was very tired. I had a really hard day.
And it was literally a whole day of talking that
by 10 p .m. I just had it. So maybe I am consciously
aware of what my triggers were and why I was
pissed off with him. But I will say the apologizing
thing, I feel like that is one of the least traditional
Asian traits is like the acknowledgement that
your approach was not right. Do you find that
that's one of the stereotypes of like tiger parenting
is like, I don't need to be right. I am by authority.
Yeah. Even if I'm wrong, I don't have to apologize
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you know, on Instagram, I keep seeing these like
trend reels, like how millennial parents are
always apologizing to their kids. But like, you
know, joke aside, something that will always
stay with me. I was chatting to my friend and
I was very curious because she comes from a family
of therapists. So her father's therapist, mother's
therapist, she is, her brother is. In such a,
you know, conscious family, you know, growing
up. what was it like? Because you guys all had
the skills that we did not, you know? And, and
what she answered really struck me because she
said, we fought and we lost our temper with each
other, just like any other family. But what set
my family apart from the rest and the reason
why, you know, we're so tight right now was the
repair. So they kept going back and back at it.
And it doesn't always have to be, I'm sorry,
I yelled at you before. It could be. repairing
that relationship and not just letting it go
to waste. Rupture and repair is a term I heard
yesterday. Yeah. In terms of how you fight? Yeah.
And they were actually talking about it in not
a parent -child situation, but as a couple. But
it so works as a parent -child. You know, there's
a rupture and then it's how you repair that rupture,
which is what will strengthen that relationship.
And that's so important. And the question really
is, right, what is repair? And that's not only
apologising. Can we please talk about this? Can
I understand your viewpoint? Why did you respond
that way? Would you like to understand mine?
Are there breaks that can't be repaired? You
mean between parents and children? Of course
there are. And what would be a rupture so deep
that you think might not be recoverable down
the line? Well, I think sexual abuse is very
difficult to overcome. And narcissism is very
difficult to overcome, but no one would probably
try to repair that. I mean, the children might,
but the narcissist usually doesn't. Yeah, I see.
You were mentioning all these things online about
like millennials. I get a lot of the, what do
I want to say? Like, this is how my emotionally
immature parents, X, Y, Z, and this is how me
as an emotionally mature parent will repair that.
Is there a place where... we as as so let's say
you know versus our parents and then how we address
our children are we the ones responsible for
repairing our relationships with the older generation
and then also modeling for our kids because that
seems tough that's a lot for us right um yeah
i don't know I mean, I'm not the expert at this,
but I can speak from my personal experience.
I can't change what has happened in the past.
I'm trying to see how I can best move forward
with my future, with my kids. And there are some
things with my parents that I just have to accept
and let go. We have a good relationship right
now. I think to repair, both parties have to
want to come to the table. I don't think it'll
work if, you know, I just go to them and say,
hey, can we talk about this? I felt this and
they're like. What's wrong with that? Then I
don't think that's going to work. I agree with
that. I think acceptance is really the only way
of our parents. And then seeing what is there
that I want to receive and what is actually on
offer. And I think repair often isn't on offer
because they come from a different generation.
There's a lot of trauma in the generations before
us because of... War, you know, other circumstances,
refugee situations and things like that. Right.
I don't think we are responsible for repairing
the relationship with our parents. I think for
our own sanity, it is really about deciding what
is on offer and what do I want to do with that?
And acceptance of, you know, people are different.
Yeah, it's a good one. Yeah. So let's talk a
little bit about kind of one of these catchphrases
in the Asian versus Western parenting sphere,
which is tiger mom. Now, Annabelle, you use this
term, you embrace this term. What does it mean
to you? It's a little bit tongue in cheek because
when we first, you know, created Tiger Moms Club
back in COVID, I think it all comes down to parents
wanting the best for their kids. I Tiger Mom,
you know, parent you because I want you to get
good grades. Why? Because good grades lead to
better future, better career. I want you to,
you know, eat your dinner at the table and not
like run around. Why? Because I want you to get
good nutrition. So I think to me, tiger parenting
is parents wanting the best for their kids. Because
if I didn't care about you, you can run around,
eat chocolates every day, watch TV 20 hours a
day. It'd be fine with me. Which they 100 % would
do, by the way. That's exactly what they would
do, by the way. Of course they would. Lust would
actually be the guide, right? Yeah, exactly.
Just whatever is clever. But on the flip side
of that then, okay, so then how do we know where
to set the boundary for that? So you mentioned
grades. So I'm going to hammer down on grades,
right? Okay, it's like I want you to get good
grades because people with good grades tend to
have better schools and better schools tend to
produce better success outcomes for your future.
Okay, I get it. I follow. How intense is it if
I'm not getting good grades? I guess the dark
side of what I perceive as a tiger mom is this
expectation that if you do not meet my standards,
that you have failed. And also my standards are
very narrow. And the important word there is
my. Right? My. The question is, who are we serving?
And who are we actually envisioning? Are we driving
our own dreams of what we would have liked to
be? Or are we actually seeing the child and trying
to get the best for this child? That hits so
hard because that's like that Linkin Park song,
isn't it? Or what is it called? I've completely
lost my... I'm not sure. All I can think of is
I tried so hard. I got so far. No, as in it was
the one where he's like, I'm tired of being who
you want me to be. Yeah. And, you know, and I
heard that song. I mean, I've heard it loads
of times, but once I heard it and it really hit
deep because I was like, fuck, the stuff I'm
doing. Is it because I want my son to do this?
Yeah. Because he clearly doesn't want to do it.
And that's such a difficult fine line, right?
Because one thing in terms of motivation, we
need to learn how to go through a valley to come
out at the other side. Like when we learn something,
for example, let's say you practice the piano.
that's not fun to practice the the you know the
i don't know the scales yeah it's not fun but
you need to do it to be able to have fun playing
the piano yeah so it's like how do i actually
get my child through the valley of motivation
to come out and actually have a competency yeah
right and then how do i decide whether that's
my goal or my child's goal right and that's such
a dance you know that parenting dance where you
have to feel and okay who am i serving here and
you know but still i need to teach that you need
to overcome your own resistance to be able to
actually get something out of it to become confident
i think also that that is something that's very
contemporary because i feel like we have that
option now because we can Growing up in the 60s,
70s in Asia and Singapore, you know what? Sometimes
academic success is how our parents saw as the
only way out of poverty, out of the tough situations
or opportunities that they didn't get. And, you
know, in places like Singapore, China, Korea,
you study hard, you get into the university.
That is your ticket. That is your golden ticket
out of whatever situation that you were in, you
know? So I think they were living in a very different
time. Like now. we're in much more fortunate
circumstances we can afford to have choices what
do you want what are you passionate about um
you know things like that see if i left that
choice to my boys they'll be like we win a game
i'm like you know that's not an option right
now you know like i'm not talking about gaming
i'm talking about you know let's talk about sports
because i feel like i feel like i push my boys
towards sports they And the reason I do that
is because I want them to build in healthy habits
now for the future. You know, when it comes to
anything, I'm like, I just want to see you put
the effort in. I don't care about the result.
I don't care if you're good or if you're bad.
I just want to see the effort in. And it's one
of the things my dad used to say to me, actually,
I think because my dad, he was, so he was born
in the UK. So one of the things he always said
was, you know, I don't care how good you are
at something. I don't care if you get a C. He
never said D. He always said C. We're within
limits, okay? He's doing it at the end of the
day. But I want to see that you put effort in.
And I think that's one of the things that's always
been deep -rooted in me, that I don't care how
good you are at something as long as you've tried.
So I don't know, you know, like, whether... I
feel like I've got this cross -section of, like,
beliefs and outcomes. But see, on the flip side
of the sports thing, when you said sports, it
hit me because my husband is the example of...
he wasn't allowed to play sports because he had
childhood asthma. And, you know, I think because
his mom, and I love you, Ama, but if you are
listening, his mom was a bit overprotective around
that aspect of his health. And maybe she didn't
know a ton about asthma. You know, like the childhood
asthma, you tend to grow out of it and everything
like that. But so she overprotected him away
from doing anything that had exertion. And I
feel like... My husband, I say this all the time,
he's going to be so embarrassed. I honestly feel
like Tyler could have been a national athlete
for Singapore. He's so genuinely athletic, gifted
athletic. And when we started dating, that was
like, you know, it came out more and more that
I was like, do you know how good you are at this?
And he was like, yeah, but I never played sports
growing up because I wasn't allowed. There's
two sides of that coin where it's like, are you
pushing too hard for the boys to be in sports
because you want them to have that? And is there
being pulled back and away from something because
of your fear or perception that it's unsafe or
that it's outside the norm? you know and is there
a balance between those two extremes no and you
know what that's that's i mean some people interpret
that as tiger momming but like both parents are
trying their best for their kids and they want
the best like you want the best for your boys
to live a healthy life And your husband's mom
was trying her best to protect him from asthma.
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know how docs are. Even in Singapore now, docs
are like, you know, like, it could be asthma
and your kid could die. Oh, my God. You know,
like, everything here is so intense. And if something
were to happen, then, you know. That's right.
You're a terrible mom. That's exactly right.
So mom guilt, is that universal? Is that something
that we all understand no matter what our parenting
style is? 1 ,000%. I think I've never met a mom
who never had any mom guilt. Yeah. From not doing
enough or doing too much or doing the wrong thing
or not doing as well as others are doing. Or
once you have more children, like, am I actually
spending enough time with all of the children?
That was my big one. I battle with that every
day. Yeah, me too. Me too. Every day. Still,
and my oldest is already 20. Okay, so it never
goes away is what Cornelia is saying. No, I think
it gets worse because now they're going to spread
around the world. And how are you going to spend
enough time? I wanted to make one more point
to what you said earlier, like having the luxury
to choose. I think we are in a very different
situation now with all the AI development that
we have around us. And I think we really need
to understand that the world needs a different
thing from our children. So when before... like
being a robot and having a lot of output and
performance would get you far i think that's
not the case anymore we don't need robots anymore
we need the individuality the creativity to actually
have children who can be effective in this world
and can bring something that a robot doesn't
so i think that is the challenge of oh the old
formula doesn't work anymore you know just work
hard and put a lot of effort and that's just
not enough anymore we need to really know who
are we yes what can we bring what where are the
talents and i i find that a real challenge in
watching children grow up and kind of feeling
and tuning in because as you say They don't know.
They will just game and follow their, you know,
whatever they want to do that is a little bit
addictive as we're surrounded by addictive stuff
at the moment. I think watching as parents and
trying to figure out, you know, where do they
have talents and then supporting that without
over pushing it so you don't get a rebellion.
Yes. Wow. That's actually, I think, a good question
is how do you do it so you don't push your child
away? How do you do it so that you are able to
be the parent figure, but your child is not distancing
themselves from you? Yeah, because it could go
either way, right? So it's important to understand
that. So a healthy relationship is I can be me
as a person and still have that relationship.
Now you have two kind of characters. You have,
if that isn't, if the healthy relationship isn't
possible the way I am, You can either go into
the lonely wolf kind of behavior. You rebel against
the relationship. You choose you or you go into
the people pleasing. I do not fight for me. I
give it up to have the relationship. And you
never know what kind of child you have. And this
is, I think, the biggest risk in the top down.
I don't listen to you kind of parenting, because
what if they go into the lonely wolf? Then you
lose all control because you do rely on cooperation.
When they get into the teenage years, if they
totally, you know, just cut you out, then you
have a problem. Not saying that people -pleasing
is great either, but you have more control as
a parent, right? If you want to control your
children, that probably feels better. For the
child, it's not a great outcome either. Annabelle,
what age are your children? Three and a half
and five. Three and a half and five. And you're
homeschooling. Are you going to continue homeschooling
them? I don't know. We haven't kind of decided.
I think my intention was always to get her to
go to primary school when she's seven. Okay.
So we'll see. Because I guess my question around
that would be, I think my, so my kids are the
same age, five and four. And then my little one
is one. And they're in the local system here
in Singapore. And so I see how. Some of what
I consider traditional Asian values are already
being kind of planted as little seeds. And that
sounds very insidious how I just said that. But
I mean, I see it happening in terms of, oh, this
is why this is the way it is. Is your choice
to homeschool an attempt at kind of circumventing
that? Or is it because, you know, it's a choice
that you made with your husband? Like, tell me
a little bit more about that choice. So, yes,
I did see a little bit of that creeping in, even
when they were like two or three years old in
school. Literally, I see it from the PG group.
Stop trying to like, you know, do it. the chinese
characters just like go play the flash cards
i know that little slap sound i was like oh that's
that's new um that i think uh that was one component
but i just feel like the window for this childhood
is so short and in singapore formal education
begins at seven that's primary one i'm like before
formula formal education begins we have this
time to ourselves how do we want to spend it
What can we offer? What are our family values
and how do we align that together? So I feel
like for kids, you know, my kids below seven,
what I want for them is not spelling and, you
know, being able to read. And I think all of
that is important, but I feel like values, knowing
who they are and having that emotional attachment
to the parent and not another caregiver was important
to me. I get that that's something that's not.
necessarily an option for a lot of people, but
I felt like I was at a point in my career where
I could step back a little bit to give this time
to them and spend it together. And I feel like
that the secure attachment that they have with
their parent is very important. And I feel like,
yeah, I make mistakes all the time. I like, you
know, I'm feeling in the dark, but the fact that,
you know, the presence that I'm there with them,
I see them through all the seasons, the hard
stuff, the good stuff. I felt like that was very
important for us. I love that. I don't know if
I could do it though. You spent all day with
my kid. I know I couldn't. So that's not even,
we don't even have to talk about it. I know I
could not do it. It's funny because, you know,
like you mentioned that those values are not
important to you. And I agree. Like, I feel like
a kid should have their childhood. They should
be out there playing and they should be able
to do, be a kid. Yeah. But then we started questioning,
oh, my son is approaching. like year six, which
is the year before going into secondary school.
We were wondering, what are we going to do? Are
we going to go back to the UK? If we are, then
he's going to have to take some exams. I started
freaking out because I heard that in the UK,
although they've got a UK -based education, they're
still far behind what they're doing over there
because in the UK, they're getting homework every
day. They're doing this. And then I'm thinking,
oh my God, my son's fallen behind. Is that a...
fear or something that you have because as much
as I was like I want them to be a kid I don't
care about this stuff then I'm like fuck I didn't
care about this stuff and then I don't know where
I stand I can get away with it a little bit easier
because my kids are so young yeah um you know
and and in fact I'm pulling them out so that
they can be a kid I think when they're you know
seven eight nine when formal education begins
um that is the real challenge because I think
all parents can agree that oh let kids be kids
everyone says that but the thing is how many
parents can put their money behind what they
say? Not many. And I think it depends on, you
know, in your kid's age, year six, you said,
that's a tricky time because you do need the
grades to get into certain schools. So then,
you know, to her point, how important is that
to him and to you? But I think when it comes
to school and grades, it's also a lot about...
For the child to be able to be confident about
themselves. It does hit their confidence if they
don't do well in school. I think it's more about
actually understanding how can I handle me and
my intelligence? What can I be good at? Right.
So if a child struggles in school, they suffer
from that. They don't want to look stupid and
they do feel stupid. So it's really more about
how am I supporting my child to get good grades?
How am I supporting my child if they don't manage
to get good grades? And I think that's something
that you mentioned earlier, Amanda, was like,
oh, the tuition and the pressure. You know, I
can do that in a very different way. I can actually
say, hey. what do you think you would like to
be better at and let's have a look what are you
struggling with rather than saying you have to
go here and here and here and if you don't get
good grades because we put so much stress on
them that the emotional world is actually preventing
them from having better grades so if we support
in a loving supportive way that actually shows
them this is how you can get better at something
where we create a growth mindset where we understand
It's not about talent or whether you're good
or bad at something. It's about learning. If
I'm at A, to get at B, I have to take certain
steps. And I might take that slower than others,
but you can get to B. Everything that we learn
in primary school, for example, is something
that an average intellect can manage. The question
is how. And so I see my role as a parent as in
learning how can you emotionally get through
a system like school. Because that's a real challenge,
especially for boys who have much higher motor
impulses, who have a lot less interest in fine
motor skills and things like that. So it's really
how am I supporting my child and not whether
I'm going to support my child. If you are in
a system, you want to do well. Everybody wants
to do well, right? Because otherwise we suffer
from... Well, and you talk about now how systems
can affect boys and girls differently, potentially.
Yeah. Right. And I would want to bring that question
a little bit more into the home. So in terms
of parenting styles, do you find that culture
and tradition and kind of, you know, location
influence how you parent girls versus boys? I'll
give you an example from my own home very quickly.
And I think I brought this up on the show actually
once before. before bedtime, my kids are little,
they like to run around nude, right? Just like
straight up nude. Just like, you know, the freedom
of nudity is so fantastic. Yeah, it's just, it's
so great. Like they, the second they get in,
okay. So when my little boys run around nude,
it's fine. No one comments, right? Things go,
you know, they're up and down the stairs, whatever.
When my little girl runs around nude, her, my
father -in -law will say, shame, shame, go upstairs,
put your panties on, go upstairs, put your pajamas
on. And he'll literally say the word shame, shame,
because it's just like how it's expressed. And
like, He never says it to the boys. He might
say maybe at one point, like, okay, now it's
time to put your PJs on, just from an exasperation
perspective, but not the shame part. That was
the first time that I realized, oh, there's some
definite gender coding going on there, and that
one's blatant. Do you notice little moments like
that? The top part for me is to unlearn all of
that, because I was brought up in that. You were
the shame, shame, no panties Annabelle? I mean...
It's okay, I will neither confirm nor deny. know
where that came from maybe it's like i don't
know influence what we know now or maybe just
you know looking deep like does that resonate
with me so i think the harder part is to unlearn
all these biases that i have growing up um for
me it's like you know suck it up boys don't cry
or like you know um girls i don't know sit down
quietly and read a book or you know things like
that so i i don't do that with my kids but the
struggle that i have is to catch myself when
that happens and say you know what that's fine
yeah i have the same i have the same i have to
really catch myself so that was one of the things
that i had in mind as an answer to what did you
rebel against and i had a mother who was very
hmm traditional a traditional woman expecting
women to behave in a certain way you always have
to be very um well uh made up and you you cannot
be too loud and you cannot be too aggressive
girls don't do that um and and i really didn't
like that but i have to catch myself because
i still have a feeling to that i have a feeling
creator when i see my daughter doing something
that my mom would have corrected and i was like
And I really have to catch myself. Yeah. Why
am I correcting? For example, my mom, my mom
always says like, Oh, she's got such a beautiful
figure. Yeah. But to this day, I never walk in
front of my mother because she will comment how
I look from the back. So, so I never walk in
front of my mom. It was just so annoying. Yeah.
The appearance norms are so stark here as well.
And that does in my, in my. observation really
go one way it's really we comment on women's
bodies we don't comment on men's there might
be a little bit of teasing at Chinese New Year
like oh you've gotten fat you know like with
the men but with the women it's like every single
thing is dissected how your skin looks how skinny
obviously how skinny you are how your hair is
being worn if you look old everything absolutely
and you know what it's a tough point because
like what Cornelia said we're catching ourselves
as you know more Conscious parents, I guess.
But we're also protecting our kids from people.
Yes. Calling them out like, oh, you've got a
little, you know. Whatever. Whatever there. So
it's just, yeah, a lot. It's a lot. And again,
you know, well, let's see. So you have three
boys. I have two but one girl. What have you
got? One of each. One of each. Two boys, one
girl. So, okay. So we have a diversity of genders
here. And the fact that we're noticing it. Cornelia,
now that your kids are older, do you notice?
What do I want to say? We're planting still.
Yours are growing. Do you notice the outcomes
of the way that you parented differently in your
girls specifically or your boy? You mean in terms
of girls and boys? In terms of gender? In terms
of not commenting on her appearance the way that...
your mom did with you like do you see that she
is less appearance conscious now because of that
choice because i'm not the only person in her
life right there so i mean my mom still comments
on her okay my other the other set of grandparents
still does that social media is terrible um it's
it's really really difficult to succeed in that
i'm i I don't know. Maybe I'm more of a safe
spot for her to actually talk about these things.
I would have never spoken to my mother about
it. And she comes to me and openly speaks about
these things. That's wonderful. Yeah, that is
wonderful. But I find it really hard to watch
the gender differences. But I find it harder
to watch for raising my boys, to be honest. They
have such a negative feedback. Boys have such
negative feedback in schools. I mean, girls are
easier to school. All schooling systems are made
for girls and the way girls are. And for boys,
and some teachers, I mean, they're at the German
school, so it's not an Asian context or anything,
right? But what the teachers say to the boys
is just unbelievable. They usually have worse
marks in just how they participate in the different
sessions. And the teachers say, well, the girls
are better than you. Wow. And the confidence
of the boys and the anger that comes from that,
that is something you really have to parent through
because they get angry. And I understand that.
It's very difficult for boys to be boys nowadays.
Yeah, we actually had a whole topic. We had a
whole episode discussing, you know, how. to bring
up boys. I do a workshop on that too, raising
boys because it is, and also because male role
models are very difficult to find, especially
in early education that all women, very rarely
you find a man. I was actually very, I'm going
to say lucky because I've been saying it for
a long time. I really wanted my boys to have
male teachers. And this year, all three of them
have got male teachers. And I thought it's in
the way that they are flourishing. is very different
like there's nothing wrong with female teachers
i actually think you know they're very nurturing
it's all great but i felt like the boys thrive
with male teachers because what i had noticed
prior to this point was with their sports activities
whenever they had not young but sort of a young
-ish male uh teacher or coach Those were their
favorite lessons. Yeah, absolutely. They're more
interested in it. They have a different way of
connecting. So we do have a sponsored question
coming from our sponsors, The Meat Club, and
this segment is called Fuel Your 40s. And they
want to know, and I want to know actually, is
there a protein focused meal that you put on
the table that kind of represents your cultural
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called ABC soup. Oh, tell us more. Like literally
put in a pot. It's like chicken, carrots. corn
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it that is not only healthy that sounds some
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you can get that all at the meat club you can
use code tff for 20 off so ladies We end every
episode the same way, and that is with your reflections
on the 40s formula. What in a few sentences or
a few words can you tell particularly moms in
our 40s about how to thrive in this era? Yeah.
So I just say the family tree starts with the
roots and the roots of the family tree is the
couple. So I really think. If you really want
to nurture yourself and the stamina that you
have, you have to also start with feeling good
in your relationships that are not just the children,
because you can't just pour out of an empty cup,
nurture your relationship, spend time on actually
really being together. like spending time together
so that you um that you then have a good root
system to have a healthy family that's brilliant
what are the roots yeah annabelle when i think
of my 40s i think like clarity so like simplify
the things that don't really matter um protect
what does and live a life that's aligned with
your true self And there's no time like now,
right? I mean, if we haven't gotten that far
in our forties, it's time. Yeah. Well, thank
you ladies so much for being on the show today
and sharing your amazing thoughts on conscious
parenting, tiger momming and everything in between.
We are so happy to have had you. Thank you so
much. Thank you. Thank you. We do need the laptop
back, please.