WEBVTT

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People really judge you within two to seven seconds.

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So basically, you've made up your mind before

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anything's even happened. And that only actually

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leaves 7 % in words. What is the number one thing

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women in particular get wrong when they show

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up to a room? A lot of us go into situations

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only thinking about what we're going to say.

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It's a micro expression. They're like brain leaks.

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Micro expressions is we obviously don't know

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when we're making those because they're so unconscious.

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You can't tame it because they're highly connected

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to your nervous system and to your limbic brain.

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So you could be saying all the right things,

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but then there's that mismatch. Being confident,

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it's short term impressive. Being congruent is

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long term to building connections. Wow, I love

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that. Before we speak a single word. Our bodies

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have already said a paragraph, and most of us

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have no idea what we're actually broadcasting.

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Today, we're pulling back the curtain on the

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tiny signals that shape how we're perceived,

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the micro -expressions we don't realize we're

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making, the gestures we think look confident

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but actually scream of uncertainty, and the subtle

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cues that tell someone we're checked out, even

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when we're trying to be polite. We're diving

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deep into the difference between confidence and

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congruence. how to read the clusters of behavior

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that reveal how someone really feels, and why

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your body is always three steps ahead of your

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words. And yes, we're talking about how all of

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this shifts for women in our 40s, when hormones,

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stress, and identity collide in new and sometimes

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volatile ways. If you're ever wondering why some

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people instantly command a room or how you can

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show up with more calm, clarity, and presence,

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this episode is your masterclass. And if this

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episode inspired you to show up better in any

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room, please like, subscribe and share it with

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a friend who could use some boost of self -assurance.

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Don't forget to download our free ebook for insider

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tips and tricks from our expert guests here on

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the podcast. Visit thefortiesformula .com to

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get yours today. Welcome Pooja. Thanks for being

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with us today. Thank you for having me. It is

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a real honor and I'm super excited about this

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topic. It's something that I have been really

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invested in for the last 11 years of my life.

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And this is the first time I'm bringing it to

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a podcast. Wow. TFF exclusive, folks. Well, you've

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been invested in it for 11 years. There was a

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short time where I was invested in it. And the

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reason is because I actually majored in nonverbal

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communication at the University of Southern California.

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So it's something that is really near and dear.

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my heart. And I feel that it doesn't get enough

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understanding. We don't know enough tips for

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women to actually harness the power of nonverbal

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communication. It's huge. Yes. But before we,

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you know, say a single word to each other, right,

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we're already all communicating in this room.

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Yeah. What do you think is the number one thing

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women in particular get wrong when they show

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up to a room? Yeah. And that is a fantastic question

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because there is. not enough data and there's

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not enough awareness on how we show up in the

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room and literally 55 % of the communication

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we are having right now is in our body language.

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I don't know if you notice all three of us are

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kind of mirroring each other, you know, and that's

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a natural thing when you're already in resonance

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with someone, when you already have a rapport.

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And then there's research to also say that 38

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% is in our voice tone and, you know, our tenacity

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and our pitch and our volume. And that only actually

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leaves 7 % in words. And this is according to

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the Merabian model, which is from nine. But it

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still remains and holds true. And there's also

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something known as thin slicing, which is a model

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that was developed from Robert Rosenthal, where

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he says that people really judge you not within

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seven seconds, but within two to seven seconds

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of meeting them for the first time. Oh my gosh.

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Fucking hell, that's such a short time. Thin

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sliced indeed. It's like thin sliced. It's really,

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it's really. It's like a slice of ham, girl,

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two seconds. So basically, it's almost like you've

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made up your mind before anything's even happened.

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You see someone and it's like, right, this is.

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A person behaving this way or whatever it is.

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Yeah. And the thing is, we're not consciously

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it's we're very unconsciously assessing or judging

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someone. It's based on our limbic brain. So our

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limbic brain is always assessing. Are you an

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ally or are you a threat? Do I feel safe with

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you or do I, you know, can I trust your intentions?

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And the entire basis of thin slicing is that

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is, you know, within that first two to seven

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seconds is assessing. on first impression basis,

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which is very hard to revert back, by the way.

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So once you do come off in that first impression

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as a particular way, on the limbic brain level,

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it's very hard to go back to or to change that.

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Because there are things that we can't change

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and we can't tame in our behavior. We'll talk

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about that in a bit. But the issue with this

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is that a lot of us go into situations only thinking

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about what we're going to say. And we're not

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paying enough attention to, you know, how we're

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going to be perceived in terms of our nonverbals.

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So it's imperative to not only just understand,

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like, you know, what these gestures and nonverbal

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cues mean, like what they're signaling, but also

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to be able to say, okay, I'm going to go into

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this situation, not just pay attention to my

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words, but also focus on how I'm sitting. what

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I'm doing to build rapport on a deeply unconscious

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level so that I come across as what I want to

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portray, right? And often people get nervous,

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women get nervous, and they get into a situation

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and they're walking into a networking event or

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they're walking into a constructive feedback

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session or they're entering a new job. And they're

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primarily thinking of what they want to say.

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But because of that, they're not focused on...

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perhaps their posture. So, you know, because

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of their nerves, they could be, you know, kind

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of shrinking or taking up less space in the room.

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Their feet could be turned inward, you know.

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So there's a whole like myriad of things that

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people do when they're not really paying attention.

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They're probably leaning out when they should

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be leaning in. And so it's really important to

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be able to not only identify, but learn how to

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cater and master those nonverbal cues so that

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you can go into it. situation almost automatically

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on reflex with these tools you know so what does

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the feet turned in actually mean yeah so people

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that often have their feet turned in and actually

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on a very subconscious level you would know this

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they're nervous there's something that they're

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trying to close off from we'll talk about partial

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cross -barrier gestures later but it's almost

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like a cross -barrier gesture And we'll talk

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about the feet later, but feet actually play

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a really large role in like what's actually going

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on in the limbic brain. So feet turn inward is

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something that most people don't realize that

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it actually conveys that this I'm here. I'm not

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fully open. yeah almost like you said like crossing

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it off yes yes and kids do this by the way when

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they go to school like you know if you you think

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back you know like or if you see an image you'll

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often see kids that are bullied or nervous or

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anxious they'll have their feet turned in wow

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yeah and so then what is a good sort of power

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posture for a woman like you've walked into a

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networking event yeah let's say you know it's

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a corporate it's the corporate world yeah there's

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a lot of men in that room a lot of testosterone

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going on how should a woman sort of command the

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room like what's the best way to yeah in and

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take charge so I would definitely say that there

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has to be openness in the chest level so I so

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you know often we tend to walk in and kind of

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go to a corner but actually go in look around

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expand this area of your body and make eye contact

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with everyone because then you're signaling that

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you're open and that you're not scared you know

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um how in a networking event one of the most

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important things is to always have your feet

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pointed towards two directions if you're just

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walking in so if you're standing always because

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what you're doing then is you're signaling that

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you're open to other people joining that group

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And your dominant foot, which is the right one,

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if you're right -handed, or your left one if

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you're left -handed. Although I'm a bit weird.

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So I'm right -handed, but my dominant foot is

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actually my left. So you know that already? That's

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amazing. Because a lot of us don't actually know

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what our... And that's interesting, actually,

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in a way. I've never really... Yeah. I would

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say then, I guess, focus more on your left foot.

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Or, you know, it's just it's to almost invite

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someone. It's like an invisible line connecting

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someone to come into your territory. where your

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foot is pointing that is so interesting that

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is so good to know because we went to a an event

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a couple of days ago yeah I was there first Amanda

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was running late and you know I've walked in

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and I've got like my umbrella because it was

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pissing it down with rain I've got my bag and

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I'm just like fucking hell and there were a lot

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of men in there as well you know and then I'm

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like looking around thinking oh Jesus Christ

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you know all these women who were there were

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already closed off into their groups yes and

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then luckily I mean you know someone came over

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and spoke to me but I was just kind of like oh

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there's been a while I've not done this in a

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while yeah it's super unnerving to be in that

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situation and and I think when you people will

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not come up to you if they think you're closed

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or that you don't want to interact with them

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but if if if you know if you're showing people

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that you're open and that you're facing them

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and that you know you're you're making eye contact

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and smiling just that little bit not too much

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but it's it's an openness it's an invitedness

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that you know I actually quite like that you

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said not too much because I feel like if I saw

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somebody walking in with like a huge smile i'll

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be like oh that's a bit freaky do i know yeah

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it's like you you kind of want to stay away from

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those people because you're like what's going

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on yeah what's with that guy yeah although i

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will say i always joke that my husband and i

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i think one of the main reasons that we connected

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like so quickly and so immediately like we did

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is because we are both default smilers oh so

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you know there's resting bitch face yeah right

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and there's default smilers which is like you

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just you can't help but smile whatever you know

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i'm out for a jog and if i'm approaching somebody

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i'm just gonna have to smile at him my husband

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is the same he's a default smile i'm resting

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bitch That's why we work well together. But that's

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learned behavior, right? The default smile, the

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RBA. Thank you for bringing it very professionally,

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Pooja. It's learned. You mentioned about entering

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a room, like a networking event, and thinking

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about all the things you want to say. And that

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made me think about the most powerful assignment

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I ever did in my nonverbal communication major,

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which was as follows. We had to prepare a speech.

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And the assignment was to... prepare a speech

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on something that is well within your expertise

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something you feel incredibly confident right

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teaching another person yeah so this is so dumb

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right this is back in college i was gonna do

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mine on making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich

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right i was like i am master of the pbj yeah

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i have a whole system yeah which knife to you

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so i like planned all of that stuff right yes

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and i did mine and everyone in class did theirs

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fantastic and then the professor played everyone's

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videos back okay on mute oh wow meaning He didn't

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give a shit about what we were teaching. He wanted

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to know when you are presenting information,

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you are. infinitely confident with. Yeah. How

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do you look? Yes. Do you look like you're confident?

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Do you, does it, is it clear what you're teaching?

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Yes. You know, like with my, I'm not saying I

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got, it was like the best in the classroom, but

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like you knew I was making a sandwich. Yeah.

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Okay. Because it was, it was so clear from the

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gestures and the steps, you know, that were laid

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out, even though it was obviously, you know,

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no one could hear what was actually being said.

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So it was, I mean, it could have been a chicken

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sandwich. It could have been a chicken sandwich.

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If you're sweating your chicken, you might be

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eating some pretty gross shit. I love that. But

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you know, I think what was important in that

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lesson, is kind of micro expressions, micro behaviors,

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small things that communicated. Am I proficient

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even when I feel like I'm an expert? And when

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we're networking, we're experts in ourselves.

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We're experts in our brands. So are we communicating

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that? Can you explain micro expressions, micro

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behaviors and kind of how those can be powerful

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for women? Yeah. And so. That is such a powerful

00:12:28.970 --> 00:12:30.830
analogy. I love how you drew that into the peanut

00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:34.389
butter. Oh, wow. I do a good PBJ. Yeah, yeah,

00:12:34.409 --> 00:12:36.090
yeah. And I'll never forget that about you now.

00:12:37.029 --> 00:12:40.230
So, you know, the thing is with micro expressions

00:12:40.230 --> 00:12:43.250
is that they're like they're subtle leaks that

00:12:43.250 --> 00:12:47.610
come out from our face that kind of give away

00:12:47.610 --> 00:12:50.029
our emotional what's going on behind the scenes.

00:12:50.049 --> 00:12:55.919
Right. And so they're cues to other people. Basically,

00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:58.500
and it happens within 1 25th of a second. What?

00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:00.960
Yes. I thought we got two seconds, girl. Now

00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:05.139
we got 1 25th. Mike, okay, for general body language

00:13:05.139 --> 00:13:10.139
gestures and overall kind of appearance, that's

00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:14.539
within two to seven. But 1 25th of a second is

00:13:14.539 --> 00:13:17.960
when the micro expression takes place. And, you

00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:19.639
know, like, for example, if you're telling someone

00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:22.879
a piece of good news about you and perhaps they

00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.179
feel threatened or they're jealous, you will

00:13:25.179 --> 00:13:28.480
see a flash that happens in their eyes just before

00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:32.419
they smile or they congratulate you. And or like

00:13:32.419 --> 00:13:35.419
a wrinkled nose. There are certain things that

00:13:35.419 --> 00:13:38.399
happen, a tense jaw or tightening around the

00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.639
eyes. Those are micro examples. There's ten thousands

00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.220
of them, but those are examples. And that flashes,

00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.559
that's a micro expression. That's what happens

00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:52.080
before you consciously put on your face. So they

00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.179
reveal our true emotions and what's going on

00:13:55.179 --> 00:13:58.690
behind the scenes. And they're like brain leaks,

00:13:58.950 --> 00:14:01.789
okay? They're brain leaks. And our limbic brain

00:14:01.789 --> 00:14:04.789
is able to pick up on it on someone's mind very

00:14:04.789 --> 00:14:07.649
quickly, right? Because our limbic brain is always

00:14:07.649 --> 00:14:09.870
looking for threat. What I really actually wanted

00:14:09.870 --> 00:14:13.230
to say about the microexpressions is that there's

00:14:13.230 --> 00:14:15.029
two things, actually. The first thing is that

00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:17.889
we actually obviously don't know when we're making

00:14:17.889 --> 00:14:20.230
those because they're so unconscious. They're

00:14:20.230 --> 00:14:24.830
so hardwired to our mindset, right? That's why

00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:26.889
you can feel people's energy before they walk

00:14:26.889 --> 00:14:29.210
into a room or as they walk into a room, because

00:14:29.210 --> 00:14:32.870
you can see that, OK, fine, something about them

00:14:32.870 --> 00:14:34.850
is, you know, their mindset, their energy. It's

00:14:34.850 --> 00:14:37.610
pervading them. It's percolating. Right. But

00:14:37.610 --> 00:14:40.669
so micro expressions are like the quickest way

00:14:40.669 --> 00:14:44.210
that we make those judgments. And so, number

00:14:44.210 --> 00:14:48.120
one, we can't we don't know. that we're making

00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:50.700
them and secondly we can't see our own micro

00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:52.679
expressions and you can't control it then and

00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.019
because of that you can't tame it because they're

00:14:56.019 --> 00:14:58.399
highly connected to your nervous system and to

00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:01.539
your brain to your limbic brain so you know you

00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:03.039
could be saying all the right things but then

00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:05.519
there's that mismatch right well and that's where

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.139
congruence comes yeah exactly so so it's a very

00:15:09.139 --> 00:15:12.919
uh fine line then you have micro behavior micro

00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:17.379
behavior is subtle nonverbal cues that give off

00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:20.259
between that two to seven seconds of discomfort,

00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:24.600
disengagement, engagement, or feeling of interest.

00:15:25.220 --> 00:15:29.240
So that could be where your feet are angled towards,

00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:31.379
whether you're leaning towards someone, whether

00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:33.779
you're using diminished gestures, which I'll

00:15:33.779 --> 00:15:38.159
talk about later. And also, for example, not

00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.100
microexpressions. It's beyond the face, right?

00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:44.190
It's basically your general... how you're moving,

00:15:44.429 --> 00:15:47.710
how you're moving. Those are all pivotal information

00:15:47.710 --> 00:15:52.029
for someone who's new that's coming into a situation

00:15:52.029 --> 00:15:56.929
or even a good friend that you somehow, you know,

00:15:56.929 --> 00:16:00.230
you somehow kind of. You know them, but you actually

00:16:00.230 --> 00:16:02.330
don't really know them. That's where these micro

00:16:02.330 --> 00:16:04.769
-expressions and micro -behavior really come

00:16:04.769 --> 00:16:07.110
in. You're trying to kind of assess that person.

00:16:07.450 --> 00:16:09.870
Like you said, kind of feel their energy. Feel

00:16:09.870 --> 00:16:13.090
their energy. And that's where this comes. The

00:16:13.090 --> 00:16:15.450
other body language things that we can taper,

00:16:15.690 --> 00:16:19.789
those ones are a little bit more contrived and

00:16:19.789 --> 00:16:22.570
can be manipulated. But these you can't because

00:16:22.570 --> 00:16:25.450
they give you away very quickly. One twenty -fifth

00:16:25.450 --> 00:16:27.470
of a second and then between two and seven seconds.

00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.960
So what if we're a bad micro behavior, behavior?

00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:33.440
You know what I mean? Like what if, what if unfortunately

00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.850
our micro expressions, micro behaviors. are off

00:16:36.850 --> 00:16:39.429
-putting. You know, and that's where it's related

00:16:39.429 --> 00:16:43.230
to your mindset. So none of this, so a very,

00:16:43.350 --> 00:16:45.610
and that's why women that are in their 50s and

00:16:45.610 --> 00:16:48.210
60s come across as being so much more congruent

00:16:48.210 --> 00:16:50.809
than those that are in their 20s, 30s and 40s,

00:16:50.809 --> 00:16:54.049
because they've overcome all those mental blocks

00:16:54.049 --> 00:16:57.629
in their head. Their mindset is a lot more mature.

00:16:57.789 --> 00:17:01.909
So they come across and that streams through

00:17:01.909 --> 00:17:04.490
their body. You know, we talk a lot about body

00:17:04.490 --> 00:17:06.349
language, but we don't talk about the mindset,

00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:09.809
which is the preceding factor for how we move

00:17:09.809 --> 00:17:12.069
and how we, you know, those micro expressions.

00:17:12.269 --> 00:17:14.910
So is that then related to your core values,

00:17:15.069 --> 00:17:17.769
your inner beliefs? Yes. Those are the things

00:17:17.769 --> 00:17:20.549
based on, you know, what you actually believe

00:17:20.549 --> 00:17:24.130
will show up. in micro expressions when you're

00:17:24.130 --> 00:17:25.990
having a conversation with somebody else absolutely

00:17:25.990 --> 00:17:29.970
because if if if if you're the type that's very

00:17:29.970 --> 00:17:33.170
insecure and you know you you hear a piece of

00:17:33.170 --> 00:17:35.509
good news it's going to show up on your face

00:17:35.509 --> 00:17:38.289
quickly before you know or if you're the type

00:17:38.289 --> 00:17:41.109
that you know is a fearful type of person you

00:17:41.109 --> 00:17:43.349
know um or you're constantly judging someone

00:17:43.349 --> 00:17:47.210
that's gonna show up before the contri facial

00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:50.839
expression actually comes so you can and i the

00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:52.559
thing is everyone's scared of like sitting with

00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:53.680
me because they're like, you're going to be able

00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.099
to read me. Very true. But the truth is I can't.

00:17:57.380 --> 00:17:59.920
And that's why I always say it takes me a few

00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:03.519
hours to feel someone's energy because you can't

00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.400
consciously assess someone's micro expression

00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:09.279
on a conscious level. Your limbic brain has already

00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:13.220
done that. But I can't tell you within. you know,

00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:15.599
10 minutes of meeting someone, what their energy

00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:17.380
is really like, because it takes time for the

00:18:17.380 --> 00:18:19.539
subconscious mind to process that information

00:18:19.539 --> 00:18:23.039
with all the other information. But that happens

00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.720
immediately. So and then you feel it after you're

00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.480
like, OK, how did that feel? OK, I felt something

00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.500
was a bit off. That's when the real information,

00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:35.920
that's where those micro expressions actually

00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:39.380
play a large role in. So what about like. Obviously,

00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:41.380
if you're saying that when you meet somebody,

00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:44.180
you initially form, I guess, not an opinion,

00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.039
but, you know, like you're already judging them.

00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:49.619
I've had moments where I've might have thought

00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:51.819
somebody was a complete arsehole. But then after

00:18:51.819 --> 00:18:53.859
getting to know them, I'm like, actually, you

00:18:53.859 --> 00:18:56.400
know, I actually quite like them. Yes. So that

00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.779
so then those those micro expressions that you're

00:18:59.779 --> 00:19:02.680
getting through. Yes. Your initial ones were

00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.700
wrong? No. In fact, their micro expressions expressed

00:19:06.700 --> 00:19:09.079
who they truly were. Oh, so he's still a dick.

00:19:09.259 --> 00:19:13.960
So on the contrary, you may not realize this,

00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.079
but his micro expressions were actually good

00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:19.960
and actually showed he was a good person. But

00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:22.579
his other body language and what he was saying

00:19:22.579 --> 00:19:25.740
made him contradictory to actually what he really

00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:30.279
was. That's interesting. Yeah. Okay. And that's

00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:32.420
why you were able to kind of come around to him

00:19:32.420 --> 00:19:35.319
as a nice person. Because you said your limbic

00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:37.859
brain subconsciously already recognized it. Your

00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:39.799
limbic brain would have realized that already.

00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.400
Okay. Just to kind of add there, I'm not saying

00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.279
that this is my husband. I just mean in general.

00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:50.180
That would be so funny if it was. So you've mentioned

00:19:50.180 --> 00:19:52.420
the word congruence a couple of times. And I

00:19:52.420 --> 00:19:54.140
mentioned in the intro, right, there's a difference

00:19:54.140 --> 00:19:57.019
between confidence and congruence. But I don't

00:19:57.019 --> 00:19:59.099
know that every woman could distinguish between

00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:01.779
those. Can you help us with that? Yeah. And honestly,

00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:04.740
you know, this is probably one of the best questions

00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:07.559
I've ever been asked about body language. And

00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:10.460
the difference is so stark. And everyone has

00:20:10.460 --> 00:20:12.759
this misconception that you need to be confident

00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:16.579
to walk into a room. The hard truth is you need

00:20:16.579 --> 00:20:20.269
to be congruent. Now, why is this? Number one,

00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:23.309
because confidence is a state and it's based

00:20:23.309 --> 00:20:26.369
on performance. And that performance is based

00:20:26.369 --> 00:20:30.869
on acting. So the limbic brain will be able to

00:20:30.869 --> 00:20:33.950
detect a mismatch. It's called mismatching. If

00:20:33.950 --> 00:20:39.809
that confidence is not congruent with someone's

00:20:39.809 --> 00:20:43.970
thoughts, their words, their actions, their tone

00:20:43.970 --> 00:20:47.339
of voice. So that's where congruence. congruence

00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:50.440
is not a state it's alignment between the tone

00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:54.259
the words the voice and the body language and

00:20:54.259 --> 00:20:56.960
there's a sense of inner coherence in that person

00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.900
which you will feel not just on a subconscious

00:21:00.900 --> 00:21:03.720
level but you will feel that their energy is

00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:06.000
very calming and grounding when you're around

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.819
them so the the difference and i always love

00:21:09.819 --> 00:21:13.779
to say this so being confident in a room because

00:21:13.779 --> 00:21:16.819
it's performance -based it's short -term impressive

00:21:16.819 --> 00:21:22.299
but being congruent in a room is long -term to

00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:25.720
building connections wow i love that i think

00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:29.759
such an important distinct like distinction to

00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:32.779
make between the two yeah because i think we

00:21:32.779 --> 00:21:35.150
always Talk about confidence. You need to be

00:21:35.150 --> 00:21:36.650
confident. I talk about it all the time. Yeah.

00:21:36.750 --> 00:21:38.509
So I think it's interesting to think like if

00:21:38.509 --> 00:21:41.789
it's inauthentic. Yes. Then it probably backfires

00:21:41.789 --> 00:21:44.410
on you. Absolutely. And you know why it's inauthentic?

00:21:44.410 --> 00:21:47.230
Because if it's performance based, it's literally

00:21:47.230 --> 00:21:49.569
like your nervous system is fighting itself.

00:21:50.369 --> 00:21:52.630
So, you know, you don't want to be in that state.

00:21:53.009 --> 00:21:56.329
So that is why when it comes to being congruent,

00:21:56.410 --> 00:22:01.259
it's all about the mindset. Is this person? experienced

00:22:01.259 --> 00:22:03.099
enough have they gone through enough in life

00:22:03.099 --> 00:22:05.720
are they able to overcome obstacles are they

00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.440
judgmental it's it's a lot about our personality

00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:11.579
yeah so congruence is very personality driven

00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:14.940
and confidence is very performance driven so

00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:17.539
so i guess the younger you are the more sort

00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:20.000
of confidence based you are yeah like you mentioned

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.920
like when you get into your 50s or 60s you're

00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.960
more experienced you kind of more set in your

00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:27.329
ways so you are more congruent wow like why do

00:22:27.329 --> 00:22:29.490
we want to spend time with older people yeah

00:22:29.490 --> 00:22:31.210
right if you think about it there's a certain

00:22:31.210 --> 00:22:33.769
peace and feeling of groundedness that you get

00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:36.230
absolutely and their wisdom and their wisdom

00:22:36.230 --> 00:22:39.970
feels so kind of calming yeah and it percolates

00:22:39.970 --> 00:22:42.710
through their bodies and you know that's that

00:22:42.710 --> 00:22:45.869
question you asked on micro expressions so let's

00:22:45.869 --> 00:22:48.829
say you're a very congruent human being those

00:22:48.829 --> 00:22:51.529
micro expressions will reflect that immediately

00:22:51.529 --> 00:22:53.970
it will be in alignment you don't have to be

00:22:53.970 --> 00:22:56.960
the most calming present grounded human being

00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.220
like for example that guy you were talking about

00:22:59.220 --> 00:23:01.259
that you felt you know was had that bit of that

00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:04.599
quality but there was something in him that was

00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:09.720
congruent in him that what he said what he intended

00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.759
to like he was gonna do say what he what he was

00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.079
actually gonna do there's a lot of people that

00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.180
come across as one way but behind the scenes

00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:21.799
they're not like that you know so And they can

00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:24.339
be, you know what you mentioned, right? They

00:23:24.339 --> 00:23:27.400
can be that, right? So, I mean, in a way, but

00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:29.900
at least they're congruent. You know, they're

00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:32.759
congruent with what they say they are. So we

00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.160
talked a lot about confidence, congruence, and

00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:36.940
kind of your best self, right? How do I arrive

00:23:36.940 --> 00:23:39.220
in a room? How do I make an impression? But on

00:23:39.220 --> 00:23:42.019
the flip side of that. How can you tell if someone

00:23:42.019 --> 00:23:45.799
is disengaged, disinterested? How kind of does

00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.019
that look? Yeah. And this is my favorite. So

00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:51.099
I've been teaching this to corporates for 11

00:23:51.099 --> 00:23:53.660
years. And every time I teach this topic, they're

00:23:53.660 --> 00:23:56.099
shocked because nobody talks about the lower

00:23:56.099 --> 00:23:58.660
part of the body. Yeah. Right. And that's the

00:23:58.660 --> 00:24:02.059
our legs and feet are connected directly to our

00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:04.720
amygdala and our limbic system. And that's because

00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:08.700
when we were disengaged, our feet actually start

00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:13.430
pointing towards the exit. oh wow wow or to another

00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:16.490
person and we're not consciously doing this so

00:24:16.490 --> 00:24:19.369
our torso is actually facing towards them right

00:24:19.369 --> 00:24:22.710
but their feet are facing obviously if we're

00:24:22.710 --> 00:24:25.269
angled in a particular way it's impossible to

00:24:25.269 --> 00:24:27.710
have your feet always but if you're in a networking

00:24:27.710 --> 00:24:29.670
situation or you're standing with someone and

00:24:29.670 --> 00:24:31.390
you notice that one of their feet is pointing

00:24:31.390 --> 00:24:34.829
outwards oh boy you've had it that means that

00:24:34.829 --> 00:24:36.869
their their attention or where they're planning

00:24:36.869 --> 00:24:39.980
to go next is that direction so it's not towards

00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:45.940
you so yes exactly but there are people who are

00:24:45.940 --> 00:24:48.000
super intense and then both their feet are pointing

00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.099
towards you those ones are super engaged but

00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:54.279
they also could be a little bit kinesthetic what

00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:57.099
we call kinesthetic where they need to be close

00:24:57.099 --> 00:24:59.519
to you so proximity plays a huge difference in

00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:02.019
this and they need to feel connected to you to

00:25:02.019 --> 00:25:04.559
really engage and so that's when both feet are

00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:07.519
pointing and you know in social situations um

00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.599
you It's so funny. When I was doing all my research

00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:14.589
on this, I actually experimented with this at

00:25:14.589 --> 00:25:17.309
a lunch table with all the girls. Of course,

00:25:17.329 --> 00:25:20.849
I didn't tell them. So, you know, if you look

00:25:20.849 --> 00:25:22.730
down under the table when you're with a group

00:25:22.730 --> 00:25:25.250
of girls, you can tell exactly who's the alpha

00:25:25.250 --> 00:25:27.349
on that table just by seeing where the feet are

00:25:27.349 --> 00:25:29.029
pointed at. Not because they're wearing the best

00:25:29.029 --> 00:25:30.250
shoes. Not because they're wearing the best shoes.

00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:33.150
Because Jasmine's shoe game outdoes me in every

00:25:33.150 --> 00:25:36.529
possible way. Oh, that's so cute. But it's so

00:25:36.529 --> 00:25:38.730
cool. So you can actually tell. And then you

00:25:38.730 --> 00:25:41.009
know where everyone's attention is, you know.

00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:44.680
even if someone's torso is facing towards you,

00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:47.319
but their feet are kind of like, that's the big

00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:51.130
sign of disengagement. where they're kind of

00:25:51.130 --> 00:25:53.769
wanting to go next that is so interesting it's

00:25:53.769 --> 00:25:55.430
like they're one foot out the door literally

00:25:55.430 --> 00:25:59.349
literally that's it so is that then a partial

00:25:59.349 --> 00:26:01.349
gesture is that what no that's not a partial

00:26:01.349 --> 00:26:05.269
that's a that's an actual full -on full -on escape

00:26:05.269 --> 00:26:07.509
room which most people don't know about right

00:26:07.509 --> 00:26:10.130
like i've never ever thought i obviously cannot

00:26:10.130 --> 00:26:12.710
stop thinking about it now yeah it's all i will

00:26:12.710 --> 00:26:14.450
be looking at yeah you're gonna be looking at

00:26:14.450 --> 00:26:16.130
everyone's feet when you're interacting with

00:26:16.130 --> 00:26:17.630
everything that's coming up in this holiday season

00:26:17.630 --> 00:26:21.240
very useful for the holiday season So a lot can

00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:23.640
be disclosed there. Can we talk about how no

00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:25.920
one prepares you for how your skin changes in

00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:28.660
your 40s? Honestly, one day it's fine. The next

00:26:28.660 --> 00:26:31.900
it's dull, dry, and showing every single emotion

00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:33.839
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00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.000
loving Love Indus. Their skincare actually feels

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.299
like it's doing something. It's not just sitting

00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:41.940
on your face and looking sticky. It blends South

00:26:41.940 --> 00:26:44.079
Asian ingredients like ashwagandha and vegan

00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.980
ghee with proper New York dermatology tech. It's

00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:49.819
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00:26:52.259 --> 00:26:55.039
like me, to notice lip or laugh lines. People

00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.700
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the show by using code TFF. Also, you must have

00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:21.839
heard of marrying and matching, which is like...

00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:24.220
You know, when you're in deep resonance with

00:27:24.220 --> 00:27:27.900
people and it's largely unconscious. So a lot

00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:29.380
of the time we're marrying and matching people

00:27:29.380 --> 00:27:32.380
just naturally. And if you catch yourself doing

00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:34.519
that, that's great. But if you catch yourself

00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:36.700
kind of doing the opposite. So, for example,

00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.200
we're all leaning in now, right? But if you find

00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:40.859
that, you know, you're kind of like leaning back

00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:44.099
or you notice that someone is kind of disengaged,

00:27:44.099 --> 00:27:46.500
you know. and their hands are on the sofa and

00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:48.279
they're leaning back, that could be a signal

00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:50.160
that perhaps, you know, okay, they're ready to

00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.740
kind of move on with the conversation or that

00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:56.279
they're done, you know, or maybe there's something

00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.579
that disturbed them and they don't really know

00:27:58.579 --> 00:28:03.000
how to handle it. So disinterest and disengagement

00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:06.819
actually interact quite. You know, it's a very

00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:10.220
telltale signs, you know, quite similar. And

00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:13.799
disengaged also could mean like stillness in

00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:16.220
the body as well. So, you know, someone who's

00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:19.400
very active in using gestures, which is recommended

00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:21.880
if you want to come across as being charismatic.

00:28:23.660 --> 00:28:27.079
If they are in a state where suddenly their hands

00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:29.380
go down and they go below the box level, which

00:28:29.380 --> 00:28:32.619
is just below our torso, then that's a sign that

00:28:32.619 --> 00:28:34.339
they're pretty much like, and they get still,

00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:37.539
they're checking out. The feet are a big thing

00:28:37.539 --> 00:28:39.619
on checking out and so are the gestures. I never

00:28:39.619 --> 00:28:41.420
thought about like the lowering of the hand.

00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:43.819
And I would think like, obviously the end point

00:28:43.819 --> 00:28:45.299
is like putting it in your pocket, you know,

00:28:45.299 --> 00:28:48.480
like hiding the hand, like you're literally out.

00:28:48.579 --> 00:28:51.039
That's right, exactly. That is so interesting.

00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:54.869
So you mentioned that. Having gestures can be

00:28:54.869 --> 00:28:57.009
a good sign. Yes. Can someone overdo it? Yes.

00:28:57.109 --> 00:28:58.910
And I'll tell you how people overdo gestures.

00:28:59.049 --> 00:29:01.650
So we have a safe box, which is from our shoulders

00:29:01.650 --> 00:29:05.470
down to our core or lower, you know, below our

00:29:05.470 --> 00:29:09.769
abdomen. The minute the gestures go outside or

00:29:09.769 --> 00:29:13.549
up, they're perceived as erratic or nervous or

00:29:13.549 --> 00:29:16.450
unsteady. So you always want to keep your gestures

00:29:16.450 --> 00:29:19.269
within this box. You'll see political leaders,

00:29:19.430 --> 00:29:21.849
they're taught. By the way, all this is taught

00:29:21.849 --> 00:29:24.990
to political leaders and FBI experts. But what

00:29:24.990 --> 00:29:27.269
they'll do is when they have a really big point

00:29:27.269 --> 00:29:30.470
to make, they'll do it just once up here. But

00:29:30.470 --> 00:29:33.750
they are never recommended to go outside that

00:29:33.750 --> 00:29:37.069
box. Okay, so this space. This is your safe space.

00:29:37.150 --> 00:29:40.349
Safe box. Okay, question though, Pooja. Yeah.

00:29:40.410 --> 00:29:43.349
Is that a little bit cultural? Because I will

00:29:43.349 --> 00:29:46.609
say I do feel like Americans, of which I am one.

00:29:47.420 --> 00:29:49.920
have some pretty large gestures. That's true.

00:29:49.940 --> 00:29:52.859
We do a lot here, a lot of this. But really,

00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:54.819
truly, is there kind of cultural normativity

00:29:54.819 --> 00:29:58.160
whereby Americans talking to Americans can accept

00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:01.660
that? Or on the flip side of that, Americans...

00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:04.119
talking to other people from other countries

00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:06.000
should be aware of that. I'm going to be a white

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.640
dick here, but I wonder if Americans are, you

00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:10.299
know, they want to be seen as the big dick in

00:30:10.299 --> 00:30:13.160
the room. Not you in general. Unfortunately true.

00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:16.420
In general. Could be my dick and other dicks.

00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:20.960
And also even if... The origin of that is that

00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:22.680
we want to be the big dick in the room, but then

00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:24.640
we've learned it. And then that's all we know.

00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:27.200
It's a learned behavior. So you're absolutely

00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:30.140
right. And that's cultural dependent, right?

00:30:30.259 --> 00:30:34.000
So the average norm of people that keep it within

00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.759
the box are taught. These are all learned behaviors.

00:30:38.910 --> 00:30:40.750
when you're asking about gestures, it's highly

00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:43.289
learned. And we have certain gestures that we

00:30:43.289 --> 00:30:45.769
use as well that we're taught. These are all

00:30:45.769 --> 00:30:48.269
learned. The open palm, the downward palm, the

00:30:48.269 --> 00:30:51.029
steeple, you know? Oh, the steeple. Oh, I like

00:30:51.029 --> 00:30:53.410
the steeple. Yeah, those are all culturally.

00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:57.380
But however, the micro behaviors and the micro

00:30:57.380 --> 00:31:00.319
expressions, those are biologically wired and

00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.200
those are universal. So you won't be able to

00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.660
tame those, but you can tame the other gestures

00:31:06.660 --> 00:31:09.480
through conscious awareness. Are you Singaporean?

00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:13.440
I am British. But you don't sound British. I've

00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:16.839
lived in a lot of countries. I was only asking

00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:18.480
because I was like, are there specific norms

00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.160
for Singaporeans? So in fact, in Singapore, they

00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.980
don't really, the Asian... the Southeast Asians

00:31:23.980 --> 00:31:28.240
don't use gestures that much. And that's just

00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:31.640
because we, I mean, the Southeast Asians are

00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:35.500
kind of taught to kind of take less space. Whereas

00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:39.039
in Western culture, you're taught to take. a

00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.500
lot of space. And in American culture, you take

00:31:41.500 --> 00:31:44.740
all the space. And actually, Europeans are quite

00:31:44.740 --> 00:31:47.079
similar to the Southeast Asians in the sense

00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.099
they don't actually take up that. The British

00:31:49.099 --> 00:31:51.900
actually stay within their box. And so proximity

00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:54.059
is cultural. So, you know, there are certain

00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:56.420
distances that they say are personal, social.

00:31:56.700 --> 00:31:59.039
I don't believe that because I believe that's

00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:03.559
culturally based. So in India, for example. um

00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:06.140
if you were to you know the streets are so crowded

00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:08.700
the where it's wherever the population is most

00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:11.319
dense so in india because the population is so

00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:15.519
dense um proximity to people doesn't make a difference

00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:17.380
someone will bump into you in a road and you'll

00:32:17.380 --> 00:32:19.640
be fine with it right so people in india tend

00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.700
to talk very closely to each other i find that

00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:25.119
very awkward like i'm like i need some space

00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:30.849
yeah yeah yeah and you know um And it's the same

00:32:30.849 --> 00:32:32.990
with China, right? So people in China will also,

00:32:33.049 --> 00:32:36.210
because it's such a big population that they've

00:32:36.210 --> 00:32:38.890
been kind of primed that this is normal and village

00:32:38.890 --> 00:32:42.950
populations. However, if it's a place where it's

00:32:42.950 --> 00:32:47.069
sparse, sparsely populated and there's more land

00:32:47.069 --> 00:32:50.450
area to people, then you will find that the distances

00:32:50.450 --> 00:32:52.950
kind of go further and further. So what's the,

00:32:53.069 --> 00:32:56.740
I guess, if we're looking, obviously. Just in

00:32:56.740 --> 00:33:00.940
general terms, what's the safe recommended distance

00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:03.920
between people? Okay, so again, that's culturally

00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:07.400
based. It's hard to say. But personal space on

00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:11.839
average should be about three feet. meters how

00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:13.640
much is that three feet it's not that bad it's

00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.339
that much so it's like half a meter okay let's

00:33:16.339 --> 00:33:18.859
say oh yes because feet and meters yeah so it's

00:33:18.859 --> 00:33:21.019
it's about like halfway i would say that's personal

00:33:21.019 --> 00:33:23.579
space social space is when you're like in a group

00:33:23.579 --> 00:33:26.420
and there's about a meter and a half of distance

00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:29.019
okay you know but again this is all culturally

00:33:29.019 --> 00:33:32.039
dependent we can't really put a you know and

00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:34.960
there's four elements to non -verbal communication

00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:37.839
by the way it's not just body language it's also

00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:41.180
proximity It's it's culture, it's environment,

00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.740
it's context. So it's it's a whole range of it's

00:33:44.740 --> 00:33:47.519
touch. Can you believe that touch is a huge part

00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:50.440
of nonverbal communication? Wow. And I guess

00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:53.059
that was also situation dependent, you know,

00:33:53.059 --> 00:33:54.259
like you wouldn't want to be at a networking

00:33:54.259 --> 00:33:56.039
event and somebody. Yeah. And the reason I bring

00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:59.420
this up is because some client put his hand on

00:33:59.420 --> 00:34:03.359
one female there and she did not like it. And,

00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:07.099
you know, it caused. an issue absolutely and

00:34:07.099 --> 00:34:09.559
so i guess it does it's like context dependent

00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:11.800
yeah because you know like we're having a chat

00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:14.920
you're always i mean yeah but you know like not

00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:16.599
yeah i'm thinking about the event on tuesday

00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:18.440
because again we were at a networking event that

00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:20.039
just so happened like in a very i would say a

00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.019
very conventional industry networking yeah right

00:34:22.019 --> 00:34:23.519
where it's like everyone's a stranger and then

00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:26.639
it's us right and i know for a fact that i touched

00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:28.699
the two women that we were talking with i know

00:34:28.699 --> 00:34:30.460
for a fact because we were getting each other

00:34:30.460 --> 00:34:32.559
i mean you are a bit of a toucher whereas when

00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:34.360
we were in the conversation with that the male

00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:36.530
person that was there i would never have touched

00:34:36.530 --> 00:34:38.230
that person and if he had touched me it would

00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:40.329
have been extremely obvious yes yes so i think

00:34:40.329 --> 00:34:42.789
gender yeah gender plays a huge role in that

00:34:42.789 --> 00:34:45.710
absolutely and it's actually called haptics but

00:34:45.710 --> 00:34:47.670
there's a lot of science to say that you know

00:34:47.670 --> 00:34:50.289
just touching someone for 1 20th of a second

00:34:50.289 --> 00:34:54.090
so it's really quick it's it's really good and

00:34:54.090 --> 00:34:56.349
for women it's on the shoulder and like in the

00:34:56.349 --> 00:34:58.809
upper arm area but you know obviously for men

00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:02.349
and women it's that that's you know do men touch

00:35:02.349 --> 00:35:05.000
each other They do. In fact, they pat each other

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:08.960
on the back. Yeah, pat. Yeah, bro hug. Yeah,

00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:11.880
yeah. And it's a bit of a dominant gesture. So,

00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:15.960
yeah. The patter? The patter. Not the patty?

00:35:16.179 --> 00:35:18.820
You'll see that with handshakes. What they'll

00:35:18.820 --> 00:35:21.159
do is they'll actually take the hand and a lot

00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:24.130
of... dominant men, political leaders will always

00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:26.630
want to have it on top of the other one. So you'll

00:35:26.630 --> 00:35:28.389
see Trump do that with everyone. But I think

00:35:28.389 --> 00:35:31.090
that's such a well -known thing that he does

00:35:31.090 --> 00:35:33.769
that, that people just expect that he's going

00:35:33.769 --> 00:35:37.730
to flip your hand over. And it's for the photos,

00:35:37.869 --> 00:35:39.889
basically. So Amanda, you know how I've been

00:35:39.889 --> 00:35:41.809
on this journey about improving my sleep? Oh,

00:35:41.809 --> 00:35:44.210
you have been obsessed about it lately. Well,

00:35:44.309 --> 00:35:47.250
I have found something that has been incredible.

00:35:48.190 --> 00:35:50.809
Cozy Earth bed sheets. That's saying a lot because

00:35:50.809 --> 00:35:52.730
you are really picky about your sleep setup.

00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:55.449
Exactly. These sheets are made from bamboo viscose.

00:35:55.489 --> 00:35:59.190
They are naturally breathable and I get the perfect

00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:02.630
night's sleep. They keep me cool all night. Oh,

00:36:02.670 --> 00:36:04.670
and I've been eyeing the pajamas too. They are

00:36:04.670 --> 00:36:07.940
so chic and super cozy. It's a total game changer

00:36:07.940 --> 00:36:10.900
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00:36:28.539 --> 00:36:32.119
and use that code TFF today. What is haptics?

00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:35.050
Haptics is touch. Oh, okay, so optics is... It's

00:36:35.050 --> 00:36:36.849
the science of touching. Visibility, haptics

00:36:36.849 --> 00:36:38.880
is... Optics is correct, yeah. Okay, because

00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:40.840
I'm not familiar with that term. You know haptics?

00:36:40.900 --> 00:36:46.099
Never heard of it. It's the four modules in nonverbal

00:36:46.099 --> 00:36:47.780
communication, one of the four modules, which

00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:49.880
I was really shocked about because it's body

00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:53.079
language, environment, proximity, and haptics.

00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:55.940
Oh, okay. So touching is literally its own full

00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:57.900
category of nonverbal communication. It's a full

00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:00.460
category. Does lack of touching also count as

00:37:00.460 --> 00:37:01.460
touching? Do you know what I'm saying? Like the

00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:06.070
choice not to? It depends where you are. In India,

00:37:06.110 --> 00:37:11.070
everyone's very touchy, which is lovely. It's

00:37:11.070 --> 00:37:12.949
a very kinesthetic culture. It's a collectivist

00:37:12.949 --> 00:37:14.730
culture. So if you're in a collectivist culture,

00:37:14.929 --> 00:37:17.889
touch is accepted and it's rewarded. But if you're

00:37:17.889 --> 00:37:21.030
in an individualistic culture, then it's actually

00:37:21.030 --> 00:37:23.949
kind of looked a little bit like, no, this is

00:37:23.949 --> 00:37:28.480
not like, you know, I need my space. And I have

00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:30.719
experienced this because I'm a very touchy feely

00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:33.980
person. And I for me, that's how I bond. And

00:37:33.980 --> 00:37:36.719
I'm very touchy feely with my kids. I'm always

00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:40.199
trying to hug them. And, you know, and and they're

00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:43.099
like, you know, but that's how I grew up. You

00:37:43.099 --> 00:37:47.539
know, like I grew up in a very Asian. I was born

00:37:47.539 --> 00:37:51.739
in the Philippines. Very, very tactile and kinesthetic.

00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:55.719
I lived in India. I lived in. So, you know, I've

00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.000
been around. I feel like you've lived in the

00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.179
touchiest possible places. Exactly. Really, truly.

00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:01.820
It's true. Well, and it's funny when you came

00:38:01.820 --> 00:38:04.980
in here today. We both hugged you. We've never

00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:07.900
met you. Last time. But I saw Jasmine hug you.

00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:10.800
And then that opened up, again, that door. That

00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.760
doorway that, okay, she can hug. Yeah. Because

00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.679
I would also hug. Yes. But I wouldn't hug if

00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:16.940
I didn't know the guest was comfortable with

00:38:16.940 --> 00:38:18.900
it. So it's like once you hug Jasmine, but you

00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:21.030
must have gotten the initial hug cue. Yes. You

00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:21.909
must have, right? How did you go to hug her?

00:38:22.170 --> 00:38:26.550
I come quite close. Okay, this feels like it's

00:38:26.550 --> 00:38:30.610
a hug moment. So cute. That's me. And everyone

00:38:30.610 --> 00:38:32.730
says you always give the biggest hugs. And it's

00:38:32.730 --> 00:38:35.550
true because that's who I am intrinsically. You

00:38:35.550 --> 00:38:39.349
know, that's all I know. I feel very uncomfortable

00:38:39.349 --> 00:38:42.130
if I'm not, you know, engaging with someone kinesthetically,

00:38:42.289 --> 00:38:45.190
you know. And would you also hug, you know, like

00:38:45.190 --> 00:38:47.210
if you met a male for the first time, would you

00:38:47.210 --> 00:38:49.210
be hugging a male as well? With men I'm a little

00:38:49.210 --> 00:38:51.949
bit more. more okay i can i'll be able to sense

00:38:51.949 --> 00:38:55.289
like is this the right person like but usually

00:38:55.289 --> 00:38:57.929
it's more of like that that the distance is there

00:38:57.929 --> 00:39:00.530
if it's a family friend yes definitely like you

00:39:00.530 --> 00:39:02.690
know that's like goes without saying but you

00:39:02.690 --> 00:39:06.070
know or a cousin or or my brother you know my

00:39:06.070 --> 00:39:08.769
son hates it he gives me the top of his head

00:39:08.769 --> 00:39:17.010
and he's he's six foot he's 16 i know so he doesn't

00:39:17.010 --> 00:39:19.360
allow me to come close to him but it's the age

00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.739
yes you know i remember my brother doing that

00:39:21.739 --> 00:39:24.199
with my mom too absolutely and they give you

00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:25.880
but our sons will never do that right so when

00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:28.119
i was like my son will hug me forever right my

00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.519
little sweet one and four oh they will hug me

00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.539
forever right oh my god just hug them as much

00:39:34.539 --> 00:39:36.500
as you can oh i was like i just need you to lie

00:39:36.500 --> 00:39:39.579
to me puja yeah and implant into their brains

00:39:39.579 --> 00:39:41.360
that when they're older they need to hug you

00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:44.699
their mama needs it yeah yeah so we talked about

00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:47.539
micro behaviors partial gestures you know kind

00:39:47.539 --> 00:39:50.090
of but how do we put it together. I know that

00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:52.250
you've talked before about clusters, right? Like

00:39:52.250 --> 00:39:54.909
putting clusters of cues. Is there a finesse

00:39:54.909 --> 00:39:57.989
in that? There is a huge finesse. So we cannot

00:39:57.989 --> 00:40:01.090
judge someone's body language just by one movement

00:40:01.090 --> 00:40:03.610
that they make. And this is called baselining.

00:40:03.710 --> 00:40:06.409
So baselining is basically assessing what's their

00:40:06.409 --> 00:40:09.389
normal body language and what is different from

00:40:09.389 --> 00:40:11.309
their normal body language. So often you can

00:40:11.309 --> 00:40:14.590
tell if someone's uncomfortable because if their

00:40:14.590 --> 00:40:17.070
hands are here like for 30 minutes and, you know,

00:40:17.090 --> 00:40:19.639
they're speaking. And their hands are kind of

00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.460
below shoulder level. And then suddenly their

00:40:22.460 --> 00:40:26.719
hand goes up here. Okay, that's a cue that they're

00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:29.519
uncomfortable because this is where a cartoroid

00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:34.960
artery is placed. And this is really good even

00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:38.929
in dating. You can assess if a woman is interested

00:40:38.929 --> 00:40:41.230
or comfortable with another man because their

00:40:41.230 --> 00:40:44.070
head will be tilted kind of to the side when

00:40:44.070 --> 00:40:48.329
they feel attracted. They're exposing their cartroid

00:40:48.329 --> 00:40:53.349
artery. And so the head tilt is a big sign of

00:40:53.349 --> 00:40:57.329
interest and comfort. And it's hypnotic. Our

00:40:57.329 --> 00:40:59.429
neck, when it relaxes and we feel comfortable,

00:40:59.550 --> 00:41:01.190
it naturally, I think you've seen this in dogs

00:41:01.190 --> 00:41:03.849
and kids, when they're super interested and engaged

00:41:03.849 --> 00:41:06.670
and captivated, they'll naturally just. And my

00:41:06.670 --> 00:41:09.989
dog does do that. He will put his head to the

00:41:09.989 --> 00:41:11.730
side. And I'll be like, oh, I love it when you

00:41:11.730 --> 00:41:14.610
do that face. That makes sense. Because they're

00:41:14.610 --> 00:41:17.969
super engaged in you. And they're exposing this

00:41:17.969 --> 00:41:21.289
part of... This is where all the partial cross

00:41:21.289 --> 00:41:23.329
-barrier gestures take place in your core area.

00:41:23.630 --> 00:41:25.530
Because this is where your internal organs are.

00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:29.780
Whenever your hands go up here, so this is kind

00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:31.920
of like a half signal of discomfort. It's a gray

00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:34.019
area between us here, but I'm not fully open.

00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:36.420
And someone that puts their coffee cup like in

00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:38.340
front of them, they're protecting their core.

00:41:38.420 --> 00:41:40.880
It's a bit like a shield. So watch out for that

00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:42.940
because you'll notice people will put handbags.

00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:46.260
They'll carry their laptops. That's a cross partial

00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:48.960
barrier gesture or a coffee cup on the table,

00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.440
like right in front. And it will be there. So

00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:53.739
you're baselining and suddenly you're baselining

00:41:53.739 --> 00:41:56.599
that. Oh, wait, that's not normal for them. This

00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:59.159
is blowing my mind, Pooja, because I'm thinking

00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:01.940
about situations where I know I've done those

00:42:01.940 --> 00:42:04.039
things. Yeah. Adjusted my back to the front,

00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:05.679
for example. You know, when it's like I'm feeling

00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:07.929
like I need to. kind of get out of the situation

00:42:07.929 --> 00:42:11.010
yes what are some others what you call them cross

00:42:11.010 --> 00:42:13.969
cross parts so there's self -soothing and there's

00:42:13.969 --> 00:42:16.889
like this uh the the half hug where you know

00:42:16.889 --> 00:42:19.570
we tend to kind of protect our core i do do that

00:42:19.570 --> 00:42:21.449
yeah it's like people who are walking who are

00:42:21.449 --> 00:42:23.789
going into a networking event or walking onto

00:42:23.789 --> 00:42:25.750
stage or getting some feedback you'll see that

00:42:25.750 --> 00:42:28.349
they'll be standing like this um they're coming

00:42:28.349 --> 00:42:31.559
they're body with kind of objects there's this

00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:34.360
okay this right yeah this we need to talk about

00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.219
because this is the most misunderstood gesture

00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:40.519
now of course everyone thinks that this is like

00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:42.539
being closed off like the minute i'm doing it

00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:45.500
everyone just gets feels that energy is closed

00:42:45.500 --> 00:42:48.579
off but the truth is this can also mean that

00:42:48.579 --> 00:42:50.780
you're super engaged so this is where we come

00:42:50.780 --> 00:42:54.059
to cue clusters so when your head is tilting

00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:56.880
and your arms are here there's some research

00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:59.769
to even say that you're right hemisphere of your

00:42:59.769 --> 00:43:01.889
brain and your left hemisphere of your brain

00:43:01.889 --> 00:43:05.809
are actually engaging with each other and connecting

00:43:05.809 --> 00:43:08.590
the information oh i'm so relieved because i

00:43:08.590 --> 00:43:12.710
do that yeah because if you and it's by the way

00:43:12.710 --> 00:43:14.610
we don't know half the time when we're doing

00:43:14.610 --> 00:43:16.789
these things so if you're like if you're this

00:43:16.789 --> 00:43:19.070
is a q cluster three or more always look for

00:43:19.070 --> 00:43:21.190
three or more so if you're sitting forward so

00:43:21.190 --> 00:43:23.690
you're leaned in your head is tilted to the side

00:43:23.690 --> 00:43:28.280
and your hand your um You've got your hands crossed

00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:30.800
like this, so your arms crossed. That's a huge

00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:34.750
cue that you're actually engaged. So this is

00:43:34.750 --> 00:43:38.429
why Q clusters are so important because you cannot

00:43:38.429 --> 00:43:41.530
just look at one body language in isolation.

00:43:42.030 --> 00:43:44.210
I mean, I also do that. So my biceps look jacked.

00:43:44.690 --> 00:43:46.889
If you see me like this in the gym, it's because

00:43:46.889 --> 00:43:50.070
I need you to notice. That's a highly conscious

00:43:50.070 --> 00:43:54.090
one. I think I'm going to remember that. So how

00:43:54.090 --> 00:43:57.639
does all of this then work in? a remote situation?

00:43:57.940 --> 00:43:59.679
Because obviously now, you know, a lot of people

00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:03.119
do Zoom calls and we have a lot of remote meetings

00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:06.360
as well. So how can we sort of either look out

00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:09.860
for certain gestures or optimize it so that we're,

00:44:09.860 --> 00:44:11.980
you know, being more welcoming? I think it's

00:44:11.980 --> 00:44:13.639
easier in two dimensions, right? Like we should

00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:15.840
have more control. Yeah. And, you know, because

00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:18.159
we're lack of meeting people and we're doing

00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:20.460
so many of these Zoom, I know all my clients

00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:23.000
now and have now I've moved them. My one -on

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:26.079
-one sessions are on Zoom. So I'm missing that.

00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:27.760
that face -to -face, because there's a different

00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:29.940
type of energy that emits when you meet face

00:44:29.940 --> 00:44:33.219
-to -face. So, you know, post -COVID, a lot of

00:44:33.219 --> 00:44:35.480
these skills, that's why it's so important to

00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:38.099
bring it out now at this stage. Because a lot

00:44:38.099 --> 00:44:40.659
of us, firstly, don't know. And then secondly,

00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:43.599
that, you know, it's not practiced enough. Well,

00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:45.760
this is a great opportunity for us to bring a

00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.360
question from our sponsors to you today. We are

00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:49.920
sponsored by The Meat Club, and this segment

00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:52.699
is called Fuel Your 40s. And they have a question

00:44:52.699 --> 00:44:56.199
for you, which is when you are trying... to remain

00:44:56.199 --> 00:44:59.480
focused stay in control be your best self what's

00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:02.380
a protein focused meal that is your go -to for

00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:06.360
situations like that amazing so i my my protein

00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:11.260
go -to is boiled eggs i love it tell me why with

00:45:11.260 --> 00:45:14.920
salt and pepper salt for the electrolytes and

00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:19.219
pepper but um i'm a really big egg junkie because

00:45:19.219 --> 00:45:23.239
it fills me up i don't feel you know um overly

00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:26.920
full and also i just um i don't need to have

00:45:26.920 --> 00:45:29.559
my carbs then i love it is there a power way

00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:33.199
to eat an egg I like that. How do I powerfully

00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:35.940
show my presence with an egg? Sometimes what

00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:37.920
I do is if I get really sick of the boiled eggs

00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:41.119
is I make a feta cheese and ham omelet. Sounds

00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:45.579
amazing. Yeah, seriously. I want this. Guys,

00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:47.760
that's three proteins in one, by the way, which

00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:49.679
I already love. And it sounds delicious. And

00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:51.579
I get so full with just that that I don't even

00:45:51.579 --> 00:45:54.760
end up eating lunch. It's like an actual, that's

00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:58.039
a real protein pack. But it's rare because it's

00:45:58.039 --> 00:45:59.559
super filling. Yeah, I was just going to say.

00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:02.199
Because I feel like a growling stomach is something

00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:05.239
that we're hyper aware of. It's not exactly haptics

00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.960
or optics, right? It's like audioics. But it's

00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:09.639
like, I do feel like when people know you're

00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:12.480
starving, that's another bad look for nonverbal

00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:14.480
communication. It's like, why didn't this girl

00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:16.440
eat? Because that's the environment. Because

00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:18.239
then what will end up happening is, you know,

00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:21.039
if you are hungry, your mind is not on what that

00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:22.539
person is saying or what that person is doing.

00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:24.780
You're thinking about, when am I going to go

00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:26.940
and get her? Yeah, your foot's starting to tip

00:46:26.940 --> 00:46:28.760
out the door. Yeah, your foot's starting to have

00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:30.019
to work. Towards the door. Towards the door,

00:46:30.019 --> 00:46:31.860
wherever the closest food is. Oh, well, thank

00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:33.500
you for that. That's such a great tip and a great

00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:37.639
idea. Now, nonverbal cues, we know that they

00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:40.139
can be successful for us in establishing presence,

00:46:40.420 --> 00:46:42.860
entering a room, establishing authority, rapport.

00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:47.480
Can they also help us set boundaries? Yeah. And

00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:49.420
the thing is, this is the beauty about being

00:46:49.420 --> 00:46:53.710
a woman in your 40s. All these hormonal shifts

00:46:53.710 --> 00:46:55.730
that happen with us, you know, our estrogen and

00:46:55.730 --> 00:46:59.329
progesterone fluctuating, they shape our nonverbal

00:46:59.329 --> 00:47:02.050
cues in such a way that they become intelligence

00:47:02.050 --> 00:47:05.409
for us. I never would have thought that connected

00:47:05.409 --> 00:47:08.349
hormones to your nonverbal cues. No, tell us

00:47:08.349 --> 00:47:11.150
more. Okay, so it's amazing because when estrogen

00:47:11.150 --> 00:47:15.489
and progesterone fluctuate, the nervous system

00:47:15.489 --> 00:47:19.199
becomes a lot more sensitive. So, you know, and

00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.599
that's why sometimes we look at perimenopause

00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:24.960
and menopause as like these shifts in our body

00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.940
language as flaws. They're not the physiological

00:47:27.940 --> 00:47:32.099
data points for us. They are able to give us

00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:35.860
information on our boundaries, whether we're

00:47:35.860 --> 00:47:38.500
feeling emotionally safe, are the environments

00:47:38.500 --> 00:47:41.679
we should be in, and also like whether we're

00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:44.269
expending too much of our energy. So we need

00:47:44.269 --> 00:47:46.429
to take it as almost like a universal intelligence

00:47:46.429 --> 00:47:50.969
and like as a blessing. And for example, there's

00:47:50.969 --> 00:47:52.590
there's been research to say that women that

00:47:52.590 --> 00:47:54.869
are experiencing all these shifts in hormones

00:47:54.869 --> 00:47:58.329
and they're as they get older, you know, the

00:47:58.329 --> 00:48:01.289
40s are like the mid between between the 20s,

00:48:01.289 --> 00:48:03.510
30s and then the 50s, the wise years, the wisdom

00:48:03.510 --> 00:48:05.969
years. Right. And the 60s. Right. And that's

00:48:05.969 --> 00:48:07.650
the time where you're actually getting to know

00:48:07.650 --> 00:48:10.389
yourself better. You're able to pick up. Oh,

00:48:10.510 --> 00:48:14.400
why was I? We have a certain tolerance window

00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.739
for eye contact with most people. And sometimes

00:48:17.739 --> 00:48:19.820
when your hormones are getting the better of

00:48:19.820 --> 00:48:23.420
you, you don't have that tolerance anymore. And

00:48:23.420 --> 00:48:25.500
we might find we're doing a lot more of the self

00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:28.159
-pacifying, self -soothing gestures, a lot more.

00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:33.119
And fatigue, fatigue overtakes us. Micro fatigue,

00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:35.860
tension shows up in the jaw. Oh yeah, I suffer

00:48:35.860 --> 00:48:39.280
from that quite a bit. So these are all signals

00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:42.409
to us that actually rather than... looking at

00:48:42.409 --> 00:48:45.690
them as flaws, the real -time data into what

00:48:45.690 --> 00:48:47.429
boundaries we should be setting and, you know,

00:48:47.449 --> 00:48:50.789
what's happening in our bodies. So that's something

00:48:50.789 --> 00:48:53.969
that I find is actually quite powerful. And so

00:48:53.969 --> 00:48:57.269
how do you set boundaries, okay? So without being

00:48:57.269 --> 00:49:00.050
rude. Yeah, exactly. Without just throwing up

00:49:00.050 --> 00:49:02.210
the, you know, the X. And there's some beautiful

00:49:02.210 --> 00:49:04.550
ways that you can do this. And I use them all

00:49:04.550 --> 00:49:08.719
the time. So there's... We talked about proximity

00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:11.639
and distancing. You can actually take a step

00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:14.320
back very subtly. So if you're standing with

00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:18.920
someone, so body angling, including your feet,

00:49:18.940 --> 00:49:20.639
of course, that's most important before your

00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:22.260
torso, because that's where your feet, you know,

00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:25.019
our limbic brain is hardwired to make the feet

00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:28.159
move first. So feet angling slowly. I don't know

00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:29.599
if you guys have noticed, but when you're in

00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:32.079
a doctor's office, when he wants to break rapport

00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.780
with you, what is the first thing he does when

00:49:34.780 --> 00:49:37.530
he's about to end the interaction? I don't know

00:49:37.530 --> 00:49:40.750
if I've noticed. Again, in a doctor's office

00:49:40.750 --> 00:49:42.550
is where I work. So I'm trying to figure out

00:49:42.550 --> 00:49:46.099
what does my husband do? Tell me. So if, you

00:49:46.099 --> 00:49:48.519
know, a lot of doctors often have swively chairs.

00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:51.940
Yes, he does. Yeah. So when they're about to

00:49:51.940 --> 00:49:53.699
end an interaction, and by the way, of course,

00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:56.199
this is all highly unconscious, they'll start

00:49:56.199 --> 00:49:58.320
to actually shift their chair and their feet

00:49:58.320 --> 00:49:59.880
will start pointing and their torso will start

00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:02.400
pointing towards the door. It's a very polite

00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:09.079
way of disengaging without like saying, listen,

00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:11.800
we're done now. Yeah. Piss off. Yeah, exactly.

00:50:11.860 --> 00:50:14.019
Right. I think I, now that you mentioned it,

00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:16.030
because we work at We consult at the same table.

00:50:16.110 --> 00:50:19.159
Yeah. I think I. like roll away because the chair's

00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:21.659
on rollers. So I think I kind of push back from

00:50:21.659 --> 00:50:23.559
the table, like, you know, kind of a, well, here

00:50:23.559 --> 00:50:25.360
we are. So you're creating that distance. And

00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:27.159
I get to do that now that I think about it. Exactly.

00:50:27.219 --> 00:50:29.079
So what you're doing is you're sitting down,

00:50:29.119 --> 00:50:31.119
but you're creating distance already. Absolutely.

00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:34.539
So creating distance, body angling, leaning back.

00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:37.800
So breaking that mirroring and matching. And

00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:41.320
we talked about the still gestures as well is

00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:43.679
a nice way of also kind of stepping back. The

00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:46.739
minute you start. moving your hands down yeah

00:50:46.739 --> 00:50:49.860
um then they know okay fine it's pretty much

00:50:49.860 --> 00:50:53.960
done also bringing up your laptop or picking

00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:56.920
up an object anything that distracts it and then

00:50:56.920 --> 00:50:59.219
you look at your phone like oh you know it's

00:50:59.219 --> 00:51:01.239
like breaking concentration breaking the breaking

00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:03.800
point you take advantage of a breaking point

00:51:03.800 --> 00:51:07.099
like suddenly a message goes off look at it and

00:51:07.099 --> 00:51:09.380
then that just that that breaks that interaction

00:51:09.380 --> 00:51:12.500
in a very nice way so take advantage of that

00:51:12.500 --> 00:51:15.840
but definitely so the three things main things

00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:18.480
is break the mirroring and matching if you are

00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:21.449
marrying and matching the proximity, lean back

00:51:21.449 --> 00:51:24.650
or take a step back, and the body angling, the

00:51:24.650 --> 00:51:27.190
foot positioning. These are all very subtle nonverbal

00:51:27.190 --> 00:51:29.769
cues. This is so great. Because there are times,

00:51:29.889 --> 00:51:31.989
obviously we want to enter a group and engage

00:51:31.989 --> 00:51:33.489
the group, but then there are times where we

00:51:33.489 --> 00:51:36.550
want to get the F out of the group, but not look

00:51:36.550 --> 00:51:38.969
like a jerk. So slowly start moving back, have

00:51:38.969 --> 00:51:40.989
your feet start pointing towards the door, one

00:51:40.989 --> 00:51:43.170
foot pointed towards them, one foot towards the

00:51:43.170 --> 00:51:47.269
door. Check a message. Check a message, or just

00:51:47.269 --> 00:51:49.230
pick up something and keep it in front. front

00:51:49.230 --> 00:51:52.389
of you like so that you're signaling okay i'm

00:51:52.389 --> 00:51:55.010
now ready to move on without being rude incredible

00:51:55.010 --> 00:51:58.130
and believe me i do this a lot it because i've

00:51:58.130 --> 00:51:59.949
been doing it for so long it's become very unconscious

00:51:59.949 --> 00:52:03.690
yeah and when i teach my the participants in

00:52:03.690 --> 00:52:06.429
the workshop this this skill they really feel

00:52:06.429 --> 00:52:09.590
very empowered but i make them practice it during

00:52:09.590 --> 00:52:12.429
our sessions because it's a whole full body movement

00:52:12.429 --> 00:52:15.630
right it's a whole Practice. So again, even with

00:52:15.630 --> 00:52:17.289
mirroring and matching, it's all practice. Yeah.

00:52:17.309 --> 00:52:19.489
And it's all clusters, right? It's multiple things

00:52:19.489 --> 00:52:21.449
at once. Multiple things at once. And sometimes

00:52:21.449 --> 00:52:24.150
you just have to practice it to get that familiarity.

00:52:24.469 --> 00:52:26.889
It can feel really awkward in the beginning to

00:52:26.889 --> 00:52:29.170
do these things. So you practice it with close

00:52:29.170 --> 00:52:31.590
friends, family, and then you move on to like

00:52:31.590 --> 00:52:34.469
actual... Do it immediately. You know, especially

00:52:34.469 --> 00:52:38.269
mirroring and matching. Mirroring is very almost

00:52:38.269 --> 00:52:40.989
intrusive and some people can feel like you're

00:52:40.989 --> 00:52:44.670
imitating them. Yeah, copy, yeah. My dad is Mr.

00:52:44.829 --> 00:52:47.289
Accents. Oh, is he? My dad does accents, right?

00:52:47.309 --> 00:52:50.420
So it's like he can't help but... mimic but it's

00:52:50.420 --> 00:52:51.900
his way of establishing rapport but i'm like

00:52:51.900 --> 00:52:55.480
dad you can't do it yeah but that's his way of

00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:58.199
connecting yeah you know well gal we hate to

00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:00.780
disengage but it is our time for our final questions

00:53:00.780 --> 00:53:03.659
okay and it's a simple one yeah what is your

00:53:03.659 --> 00:53:06.320
40s formula if you were giving women one or two

00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:09.179
sentences to really help them thrive from your

00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:11.000
area of expertise yeah what would you tell them

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:14.099
so there's a quote That's very well known. I

00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:17.199
think you might have heard it, that if you listen

00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:19.320
to your body when it whispers, you don't have

00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:23.099
to hear it when it screams. And I really believe

00:53:23.099 --> 00:53:26.760
that's my 40s formula because going back to this

00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:29.719
whole topic of body language, it's about self

00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:31.780
-attunement. It's about listening to your body

00:53:31.780 --> 00:53:35.860
as a guide now, taking those cues as like universal

00:53:35.860 --> 00:53:38.849
intelligence. Am I done with this relationship?

00:53:39.369 --> 00:53:41.909
Do I need to move on? Is that environment suiting

00:53:41.909 --> 00:53:44.409
me? I've been sitting there for so long, and

00:53:44.409 --> 00:53:47.230
I've been putting up with that for so long. Am

00:53:47.230 --> 00:53:52.489
I done? Listen to your cues. So take it as wisdom.

00:53:53.070 --> 00:53:56.510
For example, recently, I noticed that I always

00:53:56.510 --> 00:53:59.230
set my shower to a particular temperature, and

00:53:59.230 --> 00:54:03.090
that's always how I've had it. And now I'm like,

00:54:03.150 --> 00:54:05.369
wait, I'm not comfortable in this water anymore.

00:54:05.789 --> 00:54:08.429
You know, it's about switching. And I'm using

00:54:08.429 --> 00:54:11.230
that as a kind of metaphor for life. It's switching

00:54:11.230 --> 00:54:15.269
that temperature back to your optimum point.

00:54:15.409 --> 00:54:18.250
So we're so lucky, actually. And a lot of people

00:54:18.250 --> 00:54:20.769
tend to look at menopause and perimenopause as

00:54:20.769 --> 00:54:23.889
like flaws. They're physiological data points

00:54:23.889 --> 00:54:28.010
for us to learn. our energy, our boundaries with

00:54:28.010 --> 00:54:31.630
energy, our boundaries with people and our boundaries

00:54:31.630 --> 00:54:35.010
for emotional safety and environment. Yes. So

00:54:35.010 --> 00:54:37.989
self -attunement. Yeah. Tune in and listen. Tune

00:54:37.989 --> 00:54:40.670
in and listen. So much being said. And it can

00:54:40.670 --> 00:54:42.349
change, you know, like you said, it doesn't,

00:54:42.349 --> 00:54:44.590
it's just because something's been one way your

00:54:44.590 --> 00:54:46.530
whole life doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

00:54:46.570 --> 00:54:49.610
Yes. Be open to the change that's required when

00:54:49.610 --> 00:54:51.730
it's required. Yeah. And, you know, we're allowed

00:54:51.730 --> 00:54:54.630
to change. There's this whole misconception that,

00:54:54.670 --> 00:54:56.460
you know, we're, We have to be the same just

00:54:56.460 --> 00:54:58.500
because we've been that way. We're allowed to

00:54:58.500 --> 00:55:00.579
change our identity. And this is the stage you

00:55:00.579 --> 00:55:03.500
do. This is the time. This is the time in your

00:55:03.500 --> 00:55:06.400
40s. All right. Well, Pooja Kirpalani sounding

00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:08.559
the call. Thank you so, so much, Gal. Thanks

00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:10.380
for being with us today. You're most welcome.

00:55:10.460 --> 00:55:12.940
It was really great to speak to you both and

00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:15.739
exchange all those giggles as well. Thank you.

00:55:16.260 --> 00:55:49.719
All right. I'm a shopping addict. Oh. Recovering

00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:53.079
consumer. So this is why you have these in place.

00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:56.340
Yes. Okay. Because it's like at least I can quell

00:55:56.340 --> 00:55:58.760
the consumption a bit without contributing to

00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:00.900
clothing waste, which I definitely am trying

00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:03.400
not to. I think you're so good at it. I'm trying.

00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:07.099
Thank you. I really have come a long way. You

00:56:07.099 --> 00:56:09.380
can ask Sarah about my previous consumption habits.