WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.100 The relationship between a mother and a daughter 00:00:02.100 --> 00:00:05.160 can be the most powerful bond in our lives, or 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:07.919 sometimes the one that hurts the most. In our 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.640 40s, that relationship often comes full circle. 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:13.800 We start to see our mothers as women, not just 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.660 parents. We notice how much of her story lives 00:00:16.660 --> 00:00:20.199 in us, in how we love, how we parent, and how 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:23.019 we care for ourselves. This episode is about 00:00:23.019 --> 00:00:25.359 what happens when we finally stop running from 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:28.879 that history and start healing. It's about breaking 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:31.320 cycles, setting boundaries and finding peace, 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:33.840 even when that forgiveness feels complicated. 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:36.659 Because sometimes healing your relationship with 00:00:36.659 --> 00:00:39.420 your mother is how you finally come home to yourself. 00:00:39.700 --> 00:00:41.640 If you enjoy this episode and find it useful, 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:43.880 please share it with a loved one. And don't forget 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:47.640 to subscribe and like the 40s Formula. Nur Adam 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.399 is a Singapore -based trauma recovery therapist 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.439 and motivational speaker known for her integrative 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.079 body, mind, heart approach to healing. As founder 00:00:57.079 --> 00:00:59.659 of The Good Life Counseling and host of The Good 00:00:59.659 --> 00:01:02.619 Life Podcast, she helps people navigate the hidden 00:01:02.619 --> 00:01:05.060 wounds of heartbreak, abandonment, and rejection 00:01:05.060 --> 00:01:08.060 so that they can reclaim safety, connection, 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.120 and purpose. With a master of counseling and 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:13.799 specialized training in somatic therapies, family 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:16.079 systems, and rapid transformation protocols, 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.219 Noor believes that healing is not about fixing 00:01:19.219 --> 00:01:22.480 what's broken. It's about relearning trust with 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:39.140 your body, emotions, and life story. And Amanda 00:01:39.140 --> 00:01:42.299 Lim, Director of Lift Clinic and a leading expert 00:01:42.299 --> 00:01:56.519 in female strength and metabolism. Science Meets 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:02.620 Real Life Guide to Thriving in Your 40s. Noor, 00:02:02.659 --> 00:02:04.439 we are so happy to have you for joining us today. 00:02:04.500 --> 00:02:06.719 Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:08.639 is so exciting. And I think, you know, we were 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:10.479 talking off air, right? You know, we are not 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:13.000 all mothers yet, but we are all daughters. And 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:14.979 I think talking about the mother -daughter relationship 00:02:14.979 --> 00:02:18.400 is something that we can all relate to. Why is 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:20.919 the mother -daughter relationship feel so intense? 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:24.159 So, you know, when we're talking about the mother 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.490 -daughter bond, It is something that can either 00:02:27.490 --> 00:02:30.729 evoke the deepest pain or the deepest comfort 00:02:30.729 --> 00:02:34.710 because this bond, it is not just a relationship. 00:02:35.150 --> 00:02:39.069 It is an imprint, which means the blueprint of, 00:02:39.129 --> 00:02:42.169 you know, love and safety. It all begins in a 00:02:42.169 --> 00:02:45.009 mother's womb, right? So in her womb, when she 00:02:45.009 --> 00:02:49.189 is calm, regulated, the body produces these hormones, 00:02:49.270 --> 00:02:52.110 you know, oxytocin, serotonin, and these are 00:02:52.110 --> 00:02:55.159 hormones of safety and connection. so when the 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:57.680 body produces that the baby feels that and the 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:01.500 baby goes oh okay i can chill i can relax but 00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:03.639 when the mother is under a lot of stress what 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:05.699 happens is that the body produces these stress 00:03:05.699 --> 00:03:09.599 hormones so there's cortisol adrenaline and all 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.139 of that is being felt by the baby and the baby 00:03:12.139 --> 00:03:14.879 goes oh my gosh i need i need to panic because 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:17.419 something does not feel right here and all these 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:20.680 stress hormones it it primes the baby's brain 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:25.710 you know for for vigilance instead of ease and 00:03:25.710 --> 00:03:29.710 connection. So when the baby is going through 00:03:29.710 --> 00:03:31.889 a lot of this, a lot of stress on the inside, 00:03:32.250 --> 00:03:35.849 so what happens is that it forms a baseline from 00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:40.229 which the baby knows what trust is like, what 00:03:40.229 --> 00:03:43.469 safety is like, what normalcy is like. And it 00:03:43.469 --> 00:03:46.629 doesn't just live in the mind. It lives in the 00:03:46.629 --> 00:03:49.750 body, in the implicit memory of the nervous system. 00:03:50.139 --> 00:03:52.479 So these kind of memories, they don't speak the 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:57.159 language of words or images. They speak the language 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.919 of body sensations, emotions, right? So it can 00:04:00.919 --> 00:04:03.180 feel really intense when it comes to you. So 00:04:03.180 --> 00:04:05.939 when you go out there into the world, all your 00:04:05.939 --> 00:04:09.699 future relationships would be unconsciously compared 00:04:09.699 --> 00:04:13.520 to this original imprint. Wow. Right? It's super 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:16.519 powerful. So if the imprint is filled with a 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:20.480 lot of love and compassion, it will reactivate 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:23.879 those neural pathways of safety. But if the imprint 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.439 is filled with a lot of fear, abuse, neglect, 00:04:27.740 --> 00:04:33.420 the body learns both love and danger. It learns 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:35.620 that both of them coexist and that can feel confusing 00:04:35.620 --> 00:04:39.100 for any child, which is why you will find a lot 00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:42.100 of individuals struggling with leaning into love 00:04:42.100 --> 00:04:45.199 because when they crave for it, they want it. 00:04:45.769 --> 00:04:48.370 They can't help but feel another part come in, 00:04:48.410 --> 00:04:52.050 go, no, it's too dangerous. Do not go there. 00:04:52.430 --> 00:04:55.089 So what you're saying is these patterns start 00:04:55.089 --> 00:04:58.810 in the womb. Yeah. So you are born in a way with 00:04:58.810 --> 00:05:01.250 kind of an imprint of where your future relationships 00:05:01.250 --> 00:05:04.269 might lead. Exactly. How do you see that translating 00:05:04.269 --> 00:05:06.629 into the childhood relationship and then when 00:05:06.629 --> 00:05:10.610 that baby becomes an adult? So, you know, once 00:05:10.610 --> 00:05:13.910 the baby is out, whatever has been learned, it 00:05:13.910 --> 00:05:16.500 doesn't magically go away. just because, you 00:05:16.500 --> 00:05:18.459 know, you've all grown up, you know, you've become 00:05:18.459 --> 00:05:22.740 an adult. Instead, it manifests itself in a lot 00:05:22.740 --> 00:05:24.720 of patterns that you go into, right? Because 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:28.000 a lot of these childhood wounds, what we call 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:30.319 the trauma wounds, it's something that does not 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:33.439 come in a form of clear memories. You might not 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.259 even remember the specific detail or event that 00:05:36.259 --> 00:05:39.100 happened that caused you to be, you know, so 00:05:39.100 --> 00:05:42.329 anxious today. But your body... Your body remembers 00:05:42.329 --> 00:05:44.589 that. It stores every single event in memory 00:05:44.589 --> 00:05:47.029 and it goes, something does not feel right today. 00:05:47.250 --> 00:05:51.449 So it manifests itself in the form of the patterns, 00:05:51.509 --> 00:05:53.629 the roles that you play in your relationships 00:05:53.629 --> 00:05:57.149 in order to preserve that connection. So for 00:05:57.149 --> 00:05:59.610 instance, you might be seeing yourself playing 00:05:59.610 --> 00:06:01.589 this role of a peacemaker, right? Where you're 00:06:01.589 --> 00:06:04.750 like, conflict? No, that's not for me. So you 00:06:04.750 --> 00:06:08.389 avoid conflict at all costs and you will do whatever 00:06:08.389 --> 00:06:10.689 it takes, even at the expense of your own well 00:06:10.689 --> 00:06:12.839 -being. you will do whatever it takes to maintain 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:15.980 the peace. So that's one. Maybe you take on the 00:06:15.980 --> 00:06:18.980 role of the achiever, right? Feeling like you 00:06:18.980 --> 00:06:21.920 need to do all these things, achieve all these 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:24.660 things in order to feel like a somebody, right? 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:26.540 Feeling as though there's no room for mistakes. 00:06:26.579 --> 00:06:29.019 If you make a mistake, it means that you're a 00:06:29.019 --> 00:06:33.019 failure. Maybe you take on the role of the silencer 00:06:33.019 --> 00:06:36.199 where, you know, you feel something, but because 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:38.500 this role is so close to you, every time you 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:41.939 feel something, There's so much fear around trying 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:45.000 to express your truth, express your pain and 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:48.459 your feelings. And do you find that those roles 00:06:48.459 --> 00:06:52.199 also kind of tag onto the birth order that you 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:54.240 may have? I was just talking with another former 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:56.959 guest from the 40s formula about the eldest daughter. 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:59.540 Oh my gosh. Right? And so when you said the achiever, 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:01.519 I was like, oh, I feel like that one's the eldest 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:04.459 daughter. But do you feel that birth order and 00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:06.879 also those roles kind of do coincide? Absolutely. 00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:10.300 You know, what I see a lot is, a lot of the eldest 00:07:10.300 --> 00:07:12.939 child, right, they tend to take on the role of 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:15.560 the caretaker. They're like, you know, I have 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.060 to take care of my siblings, you know, my mother, 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:21.240 my father, and they often go into these cycles 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:25.160 of burnout, of exhaustion. So the birth order, 00:07:25.180 --> 00:07:28.000 it makes so much sense in terms of the kind of 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:30.839 roles that you naturally go into. And I wonder 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:33.259 as well, because, you know, the birth order, 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.339 if you're the first child, there's that anxiety. 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:39.600 that's there you know because you don't know 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:43.079 what to expect I feel like it can be a lot to 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:45.680 sort of handle um I think about it sort of from 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:48.839 my perspective as well I'm the eldest daughter 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:50.819 you know and you were just talking about these 00:07:50.819 --> 00:07:52.480 sort of different roles I'm like fuck that's 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:54.879 me oh fuck Holland that's me that's me as well 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.279 so it's it's really weird because I actually 00:07:57.279 --> 00:07:58.620 think I've got a great relationship with my mum 00:07:58.620 --> 00:08:01.360 and it was something that I really wanted like 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.259 I desperately wanted a daughter I desperately 00:08:05.259 --> 00:08:08.220 wanted to be in a position where I could have 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:10.579 a great relationship with somebody you know someone 00:08:10.579 --> 00:08:14.300 I can call a friend but then I do think about 00:08:14.300 --> 00:08:18.639 certain things and I think yes I was like a friend 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.060 to my mum but I also took on roles that I probably 00:08:21.060 --> 00:08:24.300 shouldn't have as a child growing up do you find 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:28.439 that women who are you know of our age range 00:08:29.209 --> 00:08:32.669 probably took on more responsibility as being 00:08:32.669 --> 00:08:36.889 not just a child, but more. Absolutely. Have 00:08:36.889 --> 00:08:39.750 you heard of the term parentified child? I've 00:08:39.750 --> 00:08:42.750 heard this term only recently. So it's the child 00:08:42.750 --> 00:08:46.450 who felt like she needed to take on the role 00:08:46.450 --> 00:08:49.830 of a parent because once upon a time, she was 00:08:49.830 --> 00:08:53.269 burdened with a lot of the adult -related matters. 00:08:53.429 --> 00:08:56.929 Like, for example, if as a child, your mom often 00:08:56.929 --> 00:08:59.570 would come to you to talk about a lot of the 00:08:59.570 --> 00:09:02.200 issues that were going on in the family. You 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:03.879 know, as a child, you'll go, oh my gosh, you 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:06.019 know, my mom is giving me, you know, these big 00:09:06.019 --> 00:09:08.820 news, this big information. I need to do something 00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:11.139 with it. And at such a young age, you need to 00:09:11.139 --> 00:09:13.799 understand how the brain works. You know, it's 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.220 still developing. It has not fully developed 00:09:16.220 --> 00:09:19.539 to the stage where it's able to reason, to question 00:09:19.539 --> 00:09:21.759 and go, oh wait, mom, this is too much for me. 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:23.720 I can't take it, right? As a child, you go, oh 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:26.080 yeah, yeah, mommy's telling me this. I'll just 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.600 absorb. I'll take it in, right? And you don't 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.779 realize how much... you've absorbed as a child, 00:09:31.820 --> 00:09:34.740 how much you've taken on until you go into these 00:09:34.740 --> 00:09:36.639 relationships and adulthoods and you suddenly 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:39.620 feel you're panicking. You know, the moment you 00:09:39.620 --> 00:09:42.120 have to have a close relationship, for example, 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:43.980 with your partner, the moment you have to take 00:09:43.980 --> 00:09:46.860 on all these new responsibilities as a mother, 00:09:46.940 --> 00:09:49.820 it just kind of comes to you as this feeling 00:09:49.820 --> 00:09:53.299 of overwhelm, as this feeling of, I'm just going 00:09:53.299 --> 00:09:55.279 to shut down. I just want to run away from the 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:59.620 world because it just feels too much. And one 00:09:59.620 --> 00:10:02.460 of the things I also notice is this. A lot of 00:10:02.460 --> 00:10:05.539 times people hear, you know, oh, it's such a 00:10:05.539 --> 00:10:08.539 loving bond that I have with my mom. And the 00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:11.019 thing is that we need to understand when we're 00:10:11.019 --> 00:10:13.740 talking about a loving bond, whose perspective 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:16.980 is it truly speaking from, right? Because a loving 00:10:16.980 --> 00:10:19.919 bond is not the absence of emotional wounds. 00:10:20.299 --> 00:10:25.480 From the mother's perspective, love to her sounds 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:28.529 like a roof over your head. School education, 00:10:29.169 --> 00:10:33.230 clothes to wear, food on your table. In her perspective, 00:10:33.570 --> 00:10:37.690 I've given you everything. However, from the 00:10:37.690 --> 00:10:40.750 child's perspective, love could mean something 00:10:40.750 --> 00:10:45.669 different. In the child's eyes, love is often 00:10:45.669 --> 00:10:49.289 measured through connection, not just provision. 00:10:50.769 --> 00:10:54.710 Shelter, food. These are important needs that 00:10:54.710 --> 00:10:56.490 need to be met. They're fundamental needs that 00:10:56.490 --> 00:10:59.450 need to be met by the primary caregiver. However, 00:10:59.690 --> 00:11:01.590 when you're talking about a child's developing 00:11:01.590 --> 00:11:04.450 brain, what is needed for that brain to really 00:11:04.450 --> 00:11:07.549 flourish, to grow, it's more than just these 00:11:07.549 --> 00:11:10.470 survival needs, right? What they need is that 00:11:10.470 --> 00:11:13.470 emotional attunement and safety, which means 00:11:13.470 --> 00:11:16.649 the child needs to feel that, hey, no mummy understands 00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:20.399 me. She's holding whatever it is that I'm feeling 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:23.480 right now. She is able to validate whatever I'm 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.580 feeling right now. And when those two versions 00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:30.220 of love, they do not align, the mother's expression 00:11:30.220 --> 00:11:33.720 of love through provision, sacrifice, and the 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:36.460 child's need for connection and emotional presence, 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:39.960 when they don't match, it results in a relationship 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:42.299 that's very confusing for the child growing up. 00:11:42.580 --> 00:11:45.700 Because on one hand, the child might feel warmth. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:49.940 you know, love. But they might also notice another 00:11:49.940 --> 00:11:52.720 part of them that feels this deep sense of loneliness, 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:57.779 this emptiness, right? And that is the hallmark 00:11:57.779 --> 00:12:01.059 of ambivalent attachment, that push -pull dynamic 00:12:01.059 --> 00:12:05.360 between craving closeness yet fearing disappointment 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:09.039 altogether. And this is where childhood emotional 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:12.080 neglect often lives because childhood emotional 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.580 neglect is not so much about what happened. But 00:12:16.580 --> 00:12:20.480 what didn't happen for the child? So you may 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.480 have grown up in a seemingly safe home, no violence, 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:28.139 no shouting, no hitting. But if your feelings 00:12:28.139 --> 00:12:32.379 were consistently neglected or dismissed, or 00:12:32.379 --> 00:12:35.480 you were often left to yourself to deal with 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:38.539 the overwhelm, the big feelings, because we're 00:12:38.539 --> 00:12:42.029 biologically hardwired to survive. The brain 00:12:42.029 --> 00:12:44.950 will go into this automatic response to push 00:12:44.950 --> 00:12:47.070 down all these needs, to push down all these 00:12:47.070 --> 00:12:50.450 emotions in order to preserve that connection. 00:12:51.049 --> 00:12:53.669 Can we talk about how no one prepares you for 00:12:53.669 --> 00:12:56.210 how your skin changes in your 40s? Honestly, 00:12:56.309 --> 00:12:59.370 one day it's fine. The next it's dull, dry and 00:12:59.370 --> 00:13:01.750 showing every single emotion you've ever felt. 00:13:01.909 --> 00:13:04.049 That's why I've actually been loving Love Indus. 00:13:04.230 --> 00:13:06.750 Their skincare actually feels like it's doing 00:13:06.750 --> 00:13:08.970 something. It's not just sitting on your face 00:13:08.970 --> 00:13:11.860 and looking sticky. It blends South Asian ingredients 00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:14.159 like ashwagandha and vegan ghee with proper New 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:17.120 York dermatology tech. It's luxurious, but also 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.200 very results -driven. Their line limiter is especially 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:22.779 good if you're starting, like me, to notice lip 00:13:22.779 --> 00:13:25.480 or laugh lines. People compare it to Botox, which 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:27.740 I would happily take after all those needles 00:13:27.740 --> 00:13:29.980 in my face. And our listeners get the highest 00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:34.620 discount they offer, 21 % off with code TFF at 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:38.450 lovindus .com. Plus... They ship free to Singapore, 00:13:38.649 --> 00:13:40.809 which seems like a very rare little treat. And 00:13:40.809 --> 00:13:42.950 yes, we earn commission when you use our code. 00:13:43.049 --> 00:13:45.769 So don't forget to support the show by using 00:13:45.769 --> 00:13:49.049 code TFF. So you mentioned ambivalent attachment. 00:13:49.309 --> 00:13:52.049 You mentioned overwhelm. What are some other 00:13:52.049 --> 00:13:54.389 signs that we might be carrying our mother's 00:13:54.389 --> 00:13:58.090 trauma with us? The body sensations, right? So 00:13:58.090 --> 00:14:00.570 a lot of times you might notice yourself having 00:14:00.570 --> 00:14:04.629 sudden palpitations, headaches that never seem 00:14:04.629 --> 00:14:07.600 to go away. the knots in your stomach, your gut 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.440 is not doing too well, flare -ups in your skin. 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:15.320 So a lot of times, these signs of unhealed trauma, 00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:20.000 it comes forth in your body, right? And these 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.779 are automatic responses. You don't even have 00:14:22.779 --> 00:14:26.080 to instruct your body to beat faster. It's just 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.019 beating faster. And you go, what is going on? 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:32.179 And the reason why that happens is because a 00:14:32.179 --> 00:14:36.210 lot of these unhealed wounds, It's stored in 00:14:36.210 --> 00:14:39.889 the body, in your tissues, your organs, right, 00:14:40.029 --> 00:14:43.970 your cells. And when that is that deeply ingrained, 00:14:44.149 --> 00:14:46.669 it's hard for you to just snap out of it. You 00:14:46.669 --> 00:14:49.370 can't tell yourself, oh, you know, chill, you 00:14:49.370 --> 00:14:52.070 know, chill, you know, be okay, be okay. It doesn't 00:14:52.070 --> 00:14:54.750 work that way because it speaks a different language. 00:14:55.029 --> 00:14:57.789 And we need to be able to understand how it speaks 00:14:57.789 --> 00:15:01.090 to us. This sounds, so we've heard of generational 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:03.289 trauma, you know, which is... you know, from 00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:05.690 your grandparents, your great grandparents. But 00:15:05.690 --> 00:15:09.529 this doesn't feel so far like generational. This 00:15:09.529 --> 00:15:12.350 feels really close. Is there another term for 00:15:12.350 --> 00:15:15.149 that? Or would it still fall under the same sort 00:15:15.149 --> 00:15:17.330 of category? It would still fall under the same 00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:20.710 because like, you know, your mother was your 00:15:20.710 --> 00:15:23.690 first universe. So you inherit whatever she was 00:15:23.690 --> 00:15:26.970 seeing, she was feeling. And within her own body, 00:15:27.029 --> 00:15:30.070 she is also carrying the wounds of her mother, 00:15:30.110 --> 00:15:32.929 her parents. So it's all being passed down and 00:15:32.929 --> 00:15:36.389 it is generational trauma. Have you worked with 00:15:36.389 --> 00:15:40.429 clients that have not been able to unpack that? 00:15:40.490 --> 00:15:43.169 Meaning you can see the signs on, you know, whether 00:15:43.169 --> 00:15:45.110 it's in their body or in their expression that 00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:47.389 they are struggling with this passed down trauma, 00:15:47.529 --> 00:15:50.049 but they aren't ready to address it yet? Yeah. 00:15:50.669 --> 00:15:53.909 And you can feel it in the form of the resistance, 00:15:54.169 --> 00:15:57.110 right? So every time when we are trying to go 00:15:57.110 --> 00:15:59.529 there to that part that is raw and vulnerable. 00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:03.179 they could either come in the form of intellectualizing 00:16:03.179 --> 00:16:06.519 their feelings, right? So this term is called 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:09.039 spiritual bypassing and just not feel what you 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:11.220 need to feel, but just stay up here in the mind 00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:13.299 because it's safer to stay up here, right? To 00:16:13.299 --> 00:16:15.720 kind of find and you can read all the books, 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.600 listen to podcasts and go, okay, why did this 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.799 happen? But it's not the same work as going within 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:28.220 here, right? So clients who tend to be resistant, 00:16:28.419 --> 00:16:33.149 they tend to show, you know, experiences of intellectualizing 00:16:33.149 --> 00:16:35.669 and just rationalizing a whole lot of, oh, I 00:16:35.669 --> 00:16:37.649 know why I feel this way. Oh, this happened because 00:16:37.649 --> 00:16:42.110 of this. Is it necessary that once a client has 00:16:42.110 --> 00:16:44.929 identified that a trauma is, that they've had 00:16:44.929 --> 00:16:47.649 trauma carried over from their parent, that they 00:16:47.649 --> 00:16:50.250 forgive? Is forgiveness a necessary step for 00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:55.529 this? So when we look back at the term of forgiveness, 00:16:55.710 --> 00:17:00.000 right? So the role of forgiveness is freedom 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.039 for yourself. You know, not justifying, excusing, 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:06.819 or forgetting what happened. So forgiveness is 00:17:06.819 --> 00:17:09.220 not so much about the other person, what they 00:17:09.220 --> 00:17:12.940 did to you, but it's more about releasing this 00:17:12.940 --> 00:17:16.460 pain that still lives within you. So I see this 00:17:16.460 --> 00:17:19.839 pitfall, it's so common, and it's because of 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.160 how forgiveness has been defined from the onset. 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.059 It's got a lot to do with how we've been brought 00:17:26.059 --> 00:17:28.099 up. You know, growing up, you might hear things 00:17:28.099 --> 00:17:32.880 like, oh, she's your mother. She brought you 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.119 into this world. Just let it go. Just forgive 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.579 her. Right. Don't be a difficult child. Rise 00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:40.900 above. Yeah, rise above. Be the better person. 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:45.660 Right. The problem with these words is that it 00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:50.079 teaches you that your pain is invalid. It teaches 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:53.019 you that you need to silence what has hurt you. 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:57.319 So if you are struggling to forgive, it might 00:17:57.319 --> 00:18:01.019 just be because of what you've been taught to 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:05.240 believe about forgiveness. So a reframe that 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:07.619 I would like to share on this, it would be this, 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:12.200 right? If you say, I forgive you, mother, what 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.740 you're actually really saying to yourself is, 00:18:14.859 --> 00:18:19.359 I release myself from carrying this pain that 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:22.920 was never even mine to hold. in the first place 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:28.539 and this refrain can be especially powerful because 00:18:28.539 --> 00:18:31.779 it takes your power back right it shifts that 00:18:31.779 --> 00:18:35.220 focus towards here towards safety towards freedom 00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:39.579 not so much on what the other person can do their 00:18:39.579 --> 00:18:42.380 capacity and their willingness to actually change 00:18:42.380 --> 00:18:46.700 now with that said forgiveness is something that 00:18:46.700 --> 00:18:49.759 is not an easy thing right to let go of the what 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:51.440 you've been holding on to because the deeper 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.420 the relational wound, the harder it is for this 00:18:55.420 --> 00:18:57.779 part to want to kind of part ways with that and 00:18:57.779 --> 00:19:00.519 to let go of all of that. So if you're struggling 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:04.319 with that, I would invite you to extend grace 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.099 and compassion to yourself and to let go of the 00:19:07.099 --> 00:19:10.640 timelines. You know, to have to be over it, to 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.400 be done with it. Know that this is your healing 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.380 journey. Everybody's healing journey will look 00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:20.200 very different. And you shouldn't have that timeline 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.420 or deadline in place because it's just going 00:19:22.420 --> 00:19:24.819 to add a lot of pressure to this part of you 00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:27.359 that's navigating through this complexity. And 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:31.299 I think specifically releasing yourself from 00:19:31.299 --> 00:19:34.559 timelines is relevant to women in their 40s because 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.920 a lot of women in their 40s have daughters and 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.119 have mothers. And that's not been the case for 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:43.619 most of our lives. Until you become a mother, 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:45.700 you aren't struggling with that. And then add 00:19:45.700 --> 00:19:48.920 to the fact that... As your parents age, you 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.599 become more of a parent to that parent. So now 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.579 you have your actual child and now you're in 00:19:53.579 --> 00:19:56.059 a parental role with your parent. This is new 00:19:56.059 --> 00:19:58.720 for many of us. Absolutely. How do you help women 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.420 navigate being kind of that sandwich of a parent 00:20:02.420 --> 00:20:04.940 and a parent of their elderly parent? So it's 00:20:04.940 --> 00:20:08.140 being aware of what comes up. Because it's not 00:20:08.140 --> 00:20:10.940 an easy thing, right? Going to your 40s, there 00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:12.619 are going to be a lot of these new responsibilities 00:20:12.619 --> 00:20:15.000 you're going to take on. Caring for your child. 00:20:15.879 --> 00:20:18.859 caring for your aging parents, managing a relationship 00:20:18.859 --> 00:20:22.019 with your partner, your in -laws, work, and on 00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:24.380 top of that, managing of the self. So if you 00:20:24.380 --> 00:20:27.519 think about it, that's a lot. That's a lot. That's 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:29.380 a lot, right? And if you were to dismiss that 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:32.079 as, oh, you know, it's just nothing, right? You're 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:33.480 going to actually essentially telling, you're 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:35.440 telling your pain that, oh, what you're going 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.039 through now, it's just nothing, right? So first, 00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:40.839 it's just being aware and going in to validate 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.019 what you're going through. And now it's not easy. 00:20:43.529 --> 00:20:45.650 Being a mother, that's a new role that you're 00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:47.910 taking on. And right now the roles are reversed. 00:20:48.150 --> 00:20:50.670 You're now being a mother to your mother. And 00:20:50.670 --> 00:20:53.569 that can either strain or further strengthen 00:20:53.569 --> 00:20:55.930 the relationship depending again on the original 00:20:55.930 --> 00:20:58.410 imprint. If the early bonds with your mother 00:20:58.410 --> 00:21:01.029 is filled with compassion and love, yes, you 00:21:01.029 --> 00:21:03.589 might still find yourself having those instances 00:21:03.589 --> 00:21:07.089 where it's going to be tiring. It is not easy. 00:21:07.369 --> 00:21:10.309 You are going to feel tired, but the overarching 00:21:10.309 --> 00:21:14.250 or the... the dominant emotional experience you 00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:16.230 might actually feel is more of that compassion 00:21:16.230 --> 00:21:19.529 and empathy rather than, oh, this is a burden. 00:21:19.690 --> 00:21:21.589 I'm so exhausted. I'm going to just give up, 00:21:21.670 --> 00:21:25.250 right? And it's important to be aware of that, 00:21:25.430 --> 00:21:28.460 right? And if the original imprint was that of 00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:32.359 a lot of the fear and uncertainty, that is going 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:35.380 to come up as well. Any survival patterns that 00:21:35.380 --> 00:21:37.940 has not been healed is going to come up as well. 00:21:38.019 --> 00:21:41.279 So instead of feeling more grounded, you might 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.400 find yourself in these loops of feeling exhausted, 00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:49.039 burnout, feeling shame, deep loneliness. So motherhood 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:53.819 can really awaken a lot of the old, unhealed. 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:57.180 attachment memories and wounds. So that awareness 00:21:57.180 --> 00:22:01.119 is key so that you are in control of what's going 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.279 on instead of all these younger parts, the past 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:07.460 parts coming on and controlling your life today. 00:22:08.059 --> 00:22:12.539 Can you, so the way I'm sort of hearing what 00:22:12.539 --> 00:22:15.859 you're saying is that obviously these emotional 00:22:15.859 --> 00:22:19.039 feelings that we go through in the womb, which 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:21.259 is obviously subconscious, we're not aware of 00:22:21.259 --> 00:22:23.450 what's going on. It's something that stays with 00:22:23.450 --> 00:22:26.490 us for a long time. Can you really truly heal 00:22:26.490 --> 00:22:29.430 from that? Like, is there a way? Because if it's 00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:33.349 not something that you're able to control, can 00:22:33.349 --> 00:22:37.769 you control it later? Is it so innate that it's 00:22:37.769 --> 00:22:40.309 unchangeable? Yeah. So the good thing is that 00:22:40.309 --> 00:22:43.089 even if you can't remember what exactly happened, 00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:47.269 but your body keeps score, right? Being able 00:22:47.269 --> 00:22:50.250 to work with the unconscious, to be able to work 00:22:50.250 --> 00:22:53.009 with the unhealed wounds, using your body as 00:22:53.009 --> 00:22:57.369 that vessel, as that portal, right? And when 00:22:57.369 --> 00:23:00.490 you use your body as this system, as this intelligent 00:23:00.490 --> 00:23:02.970 vessel to guide you through the parts that still 00:23:02.970 --> 00:23:06.130 need healing, it helps navigating through healing 00:23:06.130 --> 00:23:09.509 a little bit more manageable compared to just 00:23:09.509 --> 00:23:11.970 kind of like going through it, feeling blinded 00:23:11.970 --> 00:23:15.119 and not knowing where to start. So one of the 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:17.019 things that I do in the sessions with my client 00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:19.599 is somatic healing. And for those who are not 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:21.940 familiar with somatic healing, it's essentially 00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:25.839 working with the body because the body carries 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.740 the imprints of our unhealed wounds. So in sessions, 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.500 it might look like slowing things down and really 00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:36.720 tuning in to your body sensations. For instance, 00:23:36.819 --> 00:23:39.500 just noticing what's happening right now. Is 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:42.650 there a tightening of your chest? Is your head 00:23:42.650 --> 00:23:45.710 feeling heavy? Do you notice a lump in your throat 00:23:45.710 --> 00:23:49.309 or knots in your stomach? Because that's the 00:23:49.309 --> 00:23:52.769 language of stored trauma. It speaks the language 00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:57.130 of the body. And there are three key elements 00:23:57.130 --> 00:23:59.650 that I do in my sessions with clients to guide 00:23:59.650 --> 00:24:02.069 them through this. And the first is titration. 00:24:02.309 --> 00:24:05.650 So titration, it is being able to feel the pain, 00:24:05.730 --> 00:24:08.710 but in small micro doses, right? Because you 00:24:08.710 --> 00:24:11.200 don't want to overwhelm the nervous system. as 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.500 you're trying to feel these emotional experiences. 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:17.480 Number two, it's about pendulation. So this is 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:21.019 a gentle rocking back and forth between the state 00:24:21.019 --> 00:24:24.980 of activation and the state of safety. Again, 00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:28.259 it's to allow the body to stay within the window 00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:30.700 of tolerance so that it does not feel overwhelmed. 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:35.539 And the third element, it is resourcing. So this 00:24:35.539 --> 00:24:38.839 is about creating these anchors of safety internally 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:41.980 or externally. So that it sends that signal to 00:24:41.980 --> 00:24:44.500 the body that, hey, you know, it's safe to be 00:24:44.500 --> 00:24:47.400 here. You don't have to check out. And are these 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.299 movements, like is pendulation literally a movement 00:24:50.299 --> 00:24:53.160 or is it a mental practice? So it's a mental 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.099 awareness of where your energy is being fluctuating 00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:58.420 towards. So let me give you an example, right? 00:24:58.460 --> 00:25:00.839 For example, you're walking through the hawker 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.839 center, right? You're just nicely walking through 00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:06.460 and suddenly you're hearing this shouting, this 00:25:06.460 --> 00:25:09.150 loud noise. Someone's shouting at the back. you're 00:25:09.150 --> 00:25:12.450 noticing your heart, this part is just tightening 00:25:12.450 --> 00:25:15.970 up, right? Your shoulders are tensing up, knots 00:25:15.970 --> 00:25:18.609 in your stomach. You're feeling this irritation, 00:25:18.890 --> 00:25:21.410 this annoyance. And suddenly you feel as though, 00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:24.329 oh my gosh, this reminds me of my mom's anger, 00:25:24.490 --> 00:25:27.549 right? So the good thing, you don't have to stay 00:25:27.549 --> 00:25:29.529 stuck with that, right? You don't have to stay 00:25:29.529 --> 00:25:31.430 stuck with what's going on here, the activation 00:25:31.430 --> 00:25:35.630 here. It's about noticing that is there. and 00:25:35.630 --> 00:25:38.049 being able to shift that awareness from here 00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:41.049 to another place that feels grounded so that's 00:25:41.049 --> 00:25:43.609 where pendulation comes in going from this space 00:25:43.609 --> 00:25:46.609 of activation and just finding externally like 00:25:46.609 --> 00:25:49.170 for example you know nearby you're you're noticing 00:25:49.170 --> 00:25:52.309 there are trees and you're like oh trees gives 00:25:52.309 --> 00:25:54.549 me a lot of calm so just bringing your attention 00:25:54.549 --> 00:25:56.990 to those trees noticing the color the leaves 00:25:56.990 --> 00:26:00.950 the branches the bark right and just placing 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:04.230 your attention there until you notice your system 00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:07.779 feels bit calmer and once it feels calmer you 00:26:07.779 --> 00:26:10.680 can and relate back to this place of activation 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:14.140 so doing this back and forth until you notice 00:26:14.140 --> 00:26:18.440 this activation feels a little lesser right and 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:21.480 what you also did there was to anchor into resourcing 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:24.859 using the tree to kind of bring your senses back 00:26:24.859 --> 00:26:28.779 into the present moment wow i mean i think you 00:26:28.779 --> 00:26:31.039 know a layman's term for that is mindfulness 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.460 right you know yeah you know being in that moment 00:26:33.460 --> 00:26:35.599 but i think that's a really it's it's helpful 00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:38.319 to frame it as a strategy meaning being in the 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:41.200 present moment with the trigger might be very 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.259 alarming like i'm mindful but i'm but i'm triggered 00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:46.119 and i'm tense versus like you said i love the 00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.579 pendulation swinging out toward the tree right 00:26:48.579 --> 00:26:50.960 right take a deep breath and then we get back 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:52.799 into ourselves and when you come back you don't 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:54.880 have to stay there forever. Stay there for like, 00:26:54.940 --> 00:26:56.880 you know, three to five seconds and then go out 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:59.700 again. Yeah. It's not escapism. It's pendulation. 00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:01.339 I think that's such a great distinction. And 00:27:01.339 --> 00:27:03.339 it's so important to be able to teach your nervous 00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:06.740 system to increase its capacity to be with these 00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:09.640 feelings. The reason why I feel so many times 00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:12.740 we don't want to feel is because we've been taught 00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:15.119 the traditional way of feeling, which is sit 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.920 with it. Until you go into that full meltdown 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:20.680 and crisis, right? Until you feel so re -traumatized. 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:22.880 I mean, it makes sense if that has been the way 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:25.180 on how you're supposed to feel your feelings. 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:26.799 The next time you're telling your body, hey, 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.180 feel it. Your body's going to go, no way am I 00:27:29.180 --> 00:27:31.920 going to be feeling it. That's too scary. So 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:34.640 you want to take it really slow, right? In healing 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.019 these trauma wounds, slow is the way to go fast. 00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:42.420 Why is it that sort of revisiting these experiences 00:27:42.420 --> 00:27:44.950 can actually help rather than just... sort of 00:27:44.950 --> 00:27:47.730 staying away from them altogether? Because it's 00:27:47.730 --> 00:27:50.490 about helping your body to complete what it couldn't 00:27:50.490 --> 00:27:53.329 complete back then. Can you expand on that? Because 00:27:53.329 --> 00:27:55.490 imagine this, once upon a time, if let's say 00:27:55.490 --> 00:28:00.549 you were in situations where you wanted to let 00:28:00.549 --> 00:28:02.890 out your anger, but your dad or your mom came 00:28:02.890 --> 00:28:06.190 in, don't, don't you dare do that. I don't like 00:28:06.190 --> 00:28:09.289 you to be an angry child. So what happens? As 00:28:09.289 --> 00:28:11.549 a child, you had to hold it in, right? So the 00:28:11.549 --> 00:28:15.279 anger that wanted to go out, it had to stay stuck. 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.039 So that is what happens as you move on in life. 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:20.920 A lot of the stuckness, it still remains. The 00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:23.019 anger that wanted to come out, it couldn't complete 00:28:23.019 --> 00:28:27.140 itself. So the objective and the purpose of revisiting 00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:29.420 is not to re -traumatize you, which is why we 00:28:29.420 --> 00:28:32.920 go really slow, is to be able to touch base with 00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:35.839 what needed to touch base at that point in time 00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:39.319 and to help it to complete it through very safe 00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:43.130 means. So for example, anger is something that 00:28:43.130 --> 00:28:45.329 comes in a form of activation. It's a lot of 00:28:45.329 --> 00:28:47.829 activation that comes in your body. So the strategy 00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:51.269 to that is to be able to discharge it. So some 00:28:51.269 --> 00:28:53.390 of the ways on how you could do it, shadowboxing, 00:28:53.589 --> 00:28:56.109 right? Channeling that energy towards somewhere 00:28:56.109 --> 00:28:58.130 because the energy needs to go somewhere. If 00:28:58.130 --> 00:29:00.809 it doesn't go out, it stays here. And then if 00:29:00.809 --> 00:29:02.609 it stays inside, that's when it manifests as 00:29:02.609 --> 00:29:06.049 a physical... Illnesses, everything comes on. 00:29:07.230 --> 00:29:10.069 Do you feel that this is unique to the mother 00:29:10.069 --> 00:29:12.230 -daughter relationship? I mean, obviously there's 00:29:12.230 --> 00:29:14.529 the aspect of the womb, right, which is the obvious 00:29:14.529 --> 00:29:17.789 connection. But do you think that this extends 00:29:17.789 --> 00:29:20.410 to parenting generally? So let's say adoptive 00:29:20.410 --> 00:29:22.869 parents, let's say the father -parent, you know, 00:29:22.910 --> 00:29:24.849 or the second partner that's not the non -birthing 00:29:24.849 --> 00:29:28.210 partner. Do you feel that this is still relevant 00:29:28.210 --> 00:29:30.869 for that relationship? Yeah, any relational wound 00:29:30.869 --> 00:29:34.109 would have very similar injuries on the inside, 00:29:34.250 --> 00:29:37.240 right? It's still... It's going to be the same, 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:42.119 the wound of feeling not wanted, abandoned, not 00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:44.680 loved, whether it comes from your mother, your 00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:47.039 father, wherever it is, as long as it's a human 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.900 being, that injury, that relational wound can 00:29:49.900 --> 00:29:53.299 happen. I ask that specifically because I have 00:29:53.299 --> 00:29:55.720 a friend who is very public about her struggles 00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:59.000 with her father. And it made me think about one 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:00.740 of the ways that she's public about it is that 00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:03.319 she struggles now that she's in a kind of parenting 00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:07.109 role as he's elderly. She struggles to not forcefully 00:30:07.109 --> 00:30:10.670 repeat her wounds on him because she wants to 00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:13.569 punish him. And she wants to show him how it 00:30:13.569 --> 00:30:15.769 felt to be her now that the roles are reversed. 00:30:16.109 --> 00:30:18.549 And, you know, she's constantly open about her 00:30:18.549 --> 00:30:21.769 battle to not reproduce that toxic relationship, 00:30:22.069 --> 00:30:24.069 you know, but it's hard because it's what she 00:30:24.069 --> 00:30:25.970 knows. And so I was thinking, I was like, is 00:30:25.970 --> 00:30:28.109 this, you know, do you see that with fathers 00:30:28.109 --> 00:30:29.950 as well as mothers, you know, that kind of this 00:30:29.950 --> 00:30:33.569 struggle to. not repeat patterns yeah exactly 00:30:33.569 --> 00:30:36.230 exactly and when you're working with women that 00:30:36.230 --> 00:30:39.150 have at least done the work on themselves so 00:30:39.150 --> 00:30:41.089 they say okay i have examined these patterns 00:30:41.089 --> 00:30:43.509 i know where they come from i've been swinging 00:30:43.509 --> 00:30:46.869 on my pendulum getting my shit together but is 00:30:46.869 --> 00:30:49.569 reconciliation so i mentioned forgiveness right 00:30:49.569 --> 00:30:52.750 so so can you forget but meaning can you reconcile 00:30:52.750 --> 00:30:55.930 with the parent is that the true final step where 00:30:55.930 --> 00:30:58.990 you reestablish a relationship that is not toxic 00:30:58.990 --> 00:31:01.150 with the parent that gave you that deep wound. 00:31:01.609 --> 00:31:03.309 So Amanda, you know how I've been on this journey 00:31:03.309 --> 00:31:05.329 about improving my sleep? Oh, you have been obsessed 00:31:05.329 --> 00:31:08.390 about it lately. Well, I have found something 00:31:08.390 --> 00:31:12.309 that has been incredible. Cozy Earth bed sheets. 00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:14.750 That's saying a lot because you are really picky 00:31:14.750 --> 00:31:17.069 about your sleep setup. Exactly. These sheets 00:31:17.069 --> 00:31:19.490 are made from bamboo viscose. They are naturally 00:31:19.490 --> 00:31:22.769 breathable and... I get the perfect night's sleep. 00:31:23.009 --> 00:31:26.109 They keep me cool all night. Oh, and I've been 00:31:26.109 --> 00:31:28.470 eyeing the pyjamas too. They are so chic and 00:31:28.470 --> 00:31:31.410 super cozy. It's a total game changer and so 00:31:31.410 --> 00:31:34.269 relaxing for the evenings. And what's crazy is 00:31:34.269 --> 00:31:36.349 that Cozy Earth actually ships to Singapore, 00:31:36.549 --> 00:31:40.609 orders over $560 ship free, and in the US orders 00:31:40.609 --> 00:31:43.109 over $50 ship free. And did you know you can 00:31:43.109 --> 00:31:47.210 get your biggest ever discount, 41 % if you use 00:31:47.210 --> 00:31:51.440 code TFF today. So head over to CozyEarth .com 00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.039 and use that code TFF today. I would say the 00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:58.019 key here to start repairing anything, it's not 00:31:58.019 --> 00:32:01.400 so much about that reconnection, but it's about 00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:06.099 self -regulation. Because the first step in repairing 00:32:06.099 --> 00:32:09.619 that fractured bond and that relationship, it's 00:32:09.619 --> 00:32:12.619 about learning how to become the parent you never 00:32:12.619 --> 00:32:14.599 had for yourself, but you always wished for. 00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:18.940 And why is this important? Self -regulation before 00:32:18.940 --> 00:32:21.039 reconnection. Why is it important to have the 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.359 internal stability and safety first before you 00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:27.240 go out there trying to reconcile and repair the 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.920 relationship? Because if your wounds, it's still 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:35.640 associating your parent to things like fear, 00:32:35.819 --> 00:32:42.160 disgust, shame, anger, right? Imagine trying 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.720 to have a conversation from that place. It's 00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:46.920 going to just come out. Blow up. Yeah, it's going 00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:49.500 to be messy. You're just going to be so drained 00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:53.000 and exhausted from it. And that's not going to 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:56.200 do any good to yourself and also to the relationship, 00:32:56.500 --> 00:33:00.799 right? For some people, they build these walls 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.819 around them when they have these wounds inside, 00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:05.980 when it's not healed. They have these walls around 00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:08.240 them. And imagine trying to have a conversation 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:10.700 with someone with the walls in front of you. 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:15.380 Imagine you open the little door, say something 00:33:15.380 --> 00:33:18.180 real quick, shut it back up. It distorts a lot 00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:20.539 of the information and it makes it so hard to 00:33:20.539 --> 00:33:23.460 hear each other. And for some people that are 00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:25.319 so good at building the walls, they've actually 00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:27.640 built soundproof rooms. They place themselves 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.160 in the room, right? And then imagine, again, 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:32.039 trying to communicate with your mother and she's 00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:37.660 outside. Nothing gets out, nothing gets in, right? 00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:43.579 Again, it sounds like a real sort of communication 00:33:43.579 --> 00:33:46.740 issue there where two people are talking and 00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:49.859 no one's actually listening. Yeah. And you can't 00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:52.539 hold space for one another if you're still coming 00:33:52.539 --> 00:33:55.700 from a place of deep wounding. It's hard. It's 00:33:55.700 --> 00:33:59.819 so hard. I have deep empathy for women who carry 00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:02.660 these wounds from their mothers. I do. But I'm 00:34:02.660 --> 00:34:05.359 very happy to say that I don't, meaning my mother 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.019 and I have a wonderful relationship. That's beautiful. 00:34:08.019 --> 00:34:12.159 I mean, supportive beyond words. So to flip the 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:14.420 conversation to a more positive note, what are 00:34:14.420 --> 00:34:17.559 some signs that you are in a positive mother 00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:19.300 -daughter relationship? What are the types of 00:34:19.300 --> 00:34:22.420 support, the types of conversations that you 00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:24.920 can have with your mother that you know that 00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:27.639 this is a secure and safe place? Yeah. You will 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:31.599 notice that your body feels calm when you're 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:35.699 talking to her. It's not tense up. It's not being 00:34:35.699 --> 00:34:38.099 in defense mode. but you notice that you're able 00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:40.219 to go deep with her, you won't have thoughts 00:34:40.219 --> 00:34:42.840 of, oh, is she going to judge me? You know, is 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:45.039 she going to like criticize me if I were to say 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:47.599 something like that? But when you have those 00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.059 conversations with her, you will feel it in your 00:34:50.059 --> 00:34:52.980 body that you're in such a flow together with 00:34:52.980 --> 00:34:56.460 her. The energy is like connected. Do you think 00:34:56.460 --> 00:34:59.239 that culturally there's a difference between 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:03.559 relationships, like mother -daughter relationships? 00:35:03.739 --> 00:35:06.719 And I bring this up because... I feel like sort 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:09.300 of in Asian culture, it can be a little bit more 00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:12.480 like there's more expectation. You kind of think 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:15.179 about, you know, family values and what other 00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:18.940 people are thinking. Do you see that, that there's 00:35:18.940 --> 00:35:21.539 difference in relationships based on culture 00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:24.480 than there is, you know, maybe in a Western type 00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.980 environment as well? Yeah, I would say in, you 00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:31.179 know, in the Asian context, individuals, children 00:35:31.179 --> 00:35:33.900 definitely brought up more conservative, more 00:35:33.900 --> 00:35:36.360 traditional. Right. It's talking about, you know, 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:38.559 those gender roles that, you know, as a man, 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:40.380 this is what you're supposed to do. You know, 00:35:40.420 --> 00:35:41.940 as a female, this is what you're supposed to 00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:45.039 do. And because of the cultural differences, 00:35:45.139 --> 00:35:47.800 again, it impacts the kind of script that you 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.260 have growing up. Right. So if you're being brought 00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:52.880 up in an environment where as a female, as a 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:55.900 woman, you're supposed to be a good housewife, 00:35:55.980 --> 00:35:58.199 you know, cook very well because that's your 00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:01.110 job. That's where your worth is tied to. then 00:36:01.110 --> 00:36:03.829 when you go into these relationships, that is 00:36:03.829 --> 00:36:07.389 how you intend to define yourself, right? So 00:36:07.389 --> 00:36:11.650 definitely, yes, culture has a huge role in terms 00:36:11.650 --> 00:36:14.309 of how you see yourself, in terms of what you 00:36:14.309 --> 00:36:16.670 feel you should be doing, in terms of what your 00:36:16.670 --> 00:36:20.889 value and belief systems are. It's time now for 00:36:20.889 --> 00:36:22.789 one of our favorite features on the show, which 00:36:22.789 --> 00:36:25.369 is our Fuel the 40 segment sponsored by our sponsor, 00:36:25.469 --> 00:36:27.210 The Meat Club. And they've actually submitted 00:36:27.210 --> 00:36:30.269 a question for you. From your work in trauma 00:36:30.269 --> 00:36:32.929 recovery, do you find that there are certain 00:36:32.929 --> 00:36:36.829 meals or foods or ways of eating that help people 00:36:36.829 --> 00:36:38.989 feel kind of grounded and supported while they're 00:36:38.989 --> 00:36:41.389 healing in their healing journey? Absolutely. 00:36:41.429 --> 00:36:46.909 I feel food is such an important part of ensuring 00:36:46.909 --> 00:36:49.269 that your system feels safe because everything 00:36:49.269 --> 00:36:51.889 that you feed into your body, your body takes 00:36:51.889 --> 00:36:55.150 it in, it absorbs it, right? And this can have 00:36:55.150 --> 00:36:57.130 a huge impact on your nervous system regulation. 00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:01.159 So if you're eating a lot of oily foods, high 00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:04.940 carbs, high sugar processed foods, you will notice, 00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:06.820 I mean, in the moment you're like, oh yeah, those 00:37:06.820 --> 00:37:09.280 chips are so good. Comfort food, right? Comfort 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:11.760 food, right? But you will notice a huge crash 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.119 after that, right? The lethargy that never seems 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.559 to go away because your body is experiencing 00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.719 a lot of inflammation and that manifests itself 00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:22.000 through the chronic lethargy that never seems 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:26.860 to go away. You know, the brain fog. Right. Issues 00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:29.039 perhaps with your period. There's a lot of things 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:32.139 that can come up when you do not nourish yourself 00:37:32.139 --> 00:37:35.300 with the right sort of food for your body. So 00:37:35.300 --> 00:37:37.360 what sort of thing do you recommend then to have, 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.119 you know, a stable mind, stable body, stable 00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:42.000 mind? What sort of stuff would you recommend? 00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.559 Vegetables, leafy vegetables, super important. 00:37:46.539 --> 00:37:49.159 Having high protein rich sort of foods because 00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:51.969 that actually keeps your tummy. full much longer 00:37:51.969 --> 00:37:54.750 it prevents you from snacking snacking consistently 00:37:54.750 --> 00:37:57.550 not so good as well not good for your sugar levels 00:37:57.550 --> 00:38:00.329 because it kind of goes into these crazy spikes 00:38:00.329 --> 00:38:03.789 you actually don't have to eat a lot meals every 00:38:03.789 --> 00:38:10.989 single day. You don't have to eat all the time. 00:38:11.090 --> 00:38:13.829 It's all coming from internally. When your system 00:38:13.829 --> 00:38:18.230 is regulated, it's able to kind of control these 00:38:18.230 --> 00:38:20.630 cravings and temptations better. And it's not 00:38:20.630 --> 00:38:24.030 eating just because it's bored. It's not eating 00:38:24.030 --> 00:38:26.369 because it wants to escape certain feelings. 00:38:26.590 --> 00:38:30.309 Do you find that you have people who are using 00:38:30.309 --> 00:38:35.719 food as an escape method? Yes, right? Escapism 00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:40.079 can come in various forms and food is one of 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.199 them. Emotional eating, right? Because it's very 00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.760 easily within your reach, right? It's so easily 00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:49.800 accessible, right? And it's everywhere. It's 00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:52.739 everywhere, right? At the supermarket, the vending 00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:55.480 machines, you just kind of go in, reach in and 00:38:55.480 --> 00:38:58.539 it's a very fast relief. You eat it, you take 00:38:58.539 --> 00:39:00.519 that candy and you go, oh yeah, it's so good. 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:03.639 And then, Your brain is looking for the next 00:39:03.639 --> 00:39:05.880 hit. It's like, okay, what's the next candy that 00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:08.179 I want to eat? What's the next, you know, nice 00:39:08.179 --> 00:39:10.780 food that I want to eat? So it keeps your brain 00:39:10.780 --> 00:39:14.219 busy so that you don't have to go within your 00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:17.639 body, which is where the hurt and the pain is 00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:20.000 at. So, yeah. Yeah, I think the same could be 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.880 said for alcohol. Yes. It kind of distracts the 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.679 brain so that you don't have to deal with what's 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:27.619 going on. Yeah, alcohol, gaming, shopping. Yeah. 00:39:27.940 --> 00:39:31.300 Yeah. Can I ask you a bit of a personal question? 00:39:31.420 --> 00:39:33.539 Sure. What brought you to this line of work? 00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:36.199 And if the answer is your own mother, if you 00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:39.429 could share that with us. I would say. It's, 00:39:39.429 --> 00:39:41.309 yeah, you know, it's my lived experience of going 00:39:41.309 --> 00:39:44.869 through traumatic experiences. You know, I think 00:39:44.869 --> 00:39:47.570 it started off like in adulthood, being in relationships 00:39:47.570 --> 00:39:50.789 that were not fulfilling. But as I got deeper 00:39:50.789 --> 00:39:52.769 into the work, you know, I realized that, hey, 00:39:52.829 --> 00:39:54.849 actually, yeah, there were some parental wounds 00:39:54.849 --> 00:39:59.150 growing up, you know. It's a loving family. But, 00:39:59.250 --> 00:40:01.489 you know, there are instances where I remember 00:40:01.489 --> 00:40:05.469 as a child. You know, big feelings. I was left 00:40:05.469 --> 00:40:08.030 to my own to be able to deal with it, right? 00:40:08.190 --> 00:40:11.670 So I was thinking it wasn't really from the parents' 00:40:11.750 --> 00:40:14.010 intention to want to make me feel like a miserable 00:40:14.010 --> 00:40:17.210 child. Looking back, it's what they could do 00:40:17.210 --> 00:40:19.630 at that point in time based on what they have 00:40:19.630 --> 00:40:22.010 learned themselves growing up in their families. 00:40:22.409 --> 00:40:25.829 So going into this work, it has allowed me to 00:40:25.829 --> 00:40:28.190 extend a lot of that compassion towards my own 00:40:28.190 --> 00:40:31.210 parents and also first and foremost towards my 00:40:31.210 --> 00:40:36.340 own self. to stop being harsh on myself for feeling 00:40:36.340 --> 00:40:39.340 this way, for having these struggles that I see 00:40:39.340 --> 00:40:43.059 in myself today. And I think moving through this 00:40:43.059 --> 00:40:46.920 journey, I realized that this work of going within, 00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:50.460 it's so important, right? It's not a thing that 00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:53.260 you should do when you just have time. Because 00:40:53.260 --> 00:40:56.639 think about this, everything that you see, everything 00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:59.380 that you do out there is based on how you see 00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:02.659 yourself internally here. If internally it feels 00:41:02.659 --> 00:41:07.760 disconnected, it feels insecure, unstable, that 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:09.860 would be the very lens on how you see everything 00:41:09.860 --> 00:41:12.760 out there. And even if you've got all these achievements, 00:41:12.900 --> 00:41:16.539 good career, great wealth, you will not be able 00:41:16.539 --> 00:41:19.199 to really be in it and really feel it because 00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:21.960 there will always be a part of you that feels 00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:25.619 that sense of emptiness and loneliness. Deep 00:41:25.619 --> 00:41:27.900 wound, like you said. It doesn't heal overnight. 00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:30.869 Yeah. Well, let's lighten up the convo a little 00:41:30.869 --> 00:41:33.389 bit. We have a segment called Hot or Hype here 00:41:33.389 --> 00:41:35.570 on the 40s Formula where we'll give you kind 00:41:35.570 --> 00:41:37.630 of a hot topic in psychology. Sure. And you can 00:41:37.630 --> 00:41:39.590 get back to us if you think it's hot or if you 00:41:39.590 --> 00:41:41.750 think it's total hype. Okay. And you can absolutely 00:41:41.750 --> 00:41:43.750 justify your answer. So it's not like you have 00:41:43.750 --> 00:41:45.349 to, you know, die on a hill. You can tell us 00:41:45.349 --> 00:41:48.349 why you feel that way. Okay. But so hot or hype? 00:41:48.889 --> 00:41:52.289 family therapy oh definitely a heart i mean good 00:41:52.289 --> 00:41:56.269 oh good i mean family therapy it's it's something 00:41:56.269 --> 00:41:59.409 that allows you to uncover all those hidden patterns 00:41:59.409 --> 00:42:02.389 of generations something that on your own could 00:42:02.389 --> 00:42:05.130 feel really hard to process and unpack so yeah 00:42:05.130 --> 00:42:09.849 a heart oh yeah yeah all right hotter hype moms 00:42:09.849 --> 00:42:12.750 and daughters as best buddies I would say it 00:42:12.750 --> 00:42:16.329 depends, okay? Because if best friends means 00:42:16.329 --> 00:42:21.110 it is that having healthy boundaries, having 00:42:21.110 --> 00:42:24.949 mutual respect, openness, then it's hot. But 00:42:24.949 --> 00:42:28.530 if best friends mean there is a lack of healthy 00:42:28.530 --> 00:42:31.429 boundaries, no privacy, emotional dependency, 00:42:31.929 --> 00:42:34.269 then it's a hype. Then that's fair to say, I 00:42:34.269 --> 00:42:36.190 think, because that could go both ways for sure. 00:42:36.590 --> 00:42:38.869 All right, hotter hype, and this kind of alludes 00:42:38.869 --> 00:42:41.050 back to my story about my friend and her father. 00:42:42.250 --> 00:42:46.969 Adult kids cutting off their parents. I would 00:42:46.969 --> 00:42:49.769 say it depends. If it's coming from a place of 00:42:49.769 --> 00:42:53.909 healing, right, and safety, then it's a hot. 00:42:54.150 --> 00:42:56.489 But if it's coming from a place of avoidance 00:42:56.489 --> 00:42:58.309 and convenience, then it's a hype. All right, 00:42:58.329 --> 00:43:02.289 last one. Breath work. Specifically 9D breath 00:43:02.289 --> 00:43:03.869 work, if you're familiar with it, but that kind 00:43:03.869 --> 00:43:07.190 of practice of letting go through breath. Hot 00:43:07.190 --> 00:43:11.579 or hype? Hot. Yeah. Because we both did it. We 00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:16.099 did it once. Yeah. Okay, cool. All right. Well, 00:43:16.179 --> 00:43:18.360 our final question for every guest here on the 00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:20.400 40s Formula, and I think you'll be in a beautiful 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:22.260 position to share this with us from your expertise. 00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:26.780 What is your 40s Formula? From your background, 00:43:26.860 --> 00:43:28.920 what would you like to offer women in their 40s 00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:30.599 from your perspective that will help them thrive? 00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:35.380 Stay curious. Play more. Keep your nervous system 00:43:35.380 --> 00:43:38.260 regulated because that is where your real confidence 00:43:38.260 --> 00:43:40.980 will truly shine. I love that. Nervous system 00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:45.219 regulation, girl. It needs a shorter catchphrase, 00:43:45.219 --> 00:43:47.500 but it's a good bumper sticker. Well, we are 00:43:47.500 --> 00:43:49.199 so happy to have you with us today, Noor. Thank 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:50.940 you for your insights. Thank you so much. Again, 00:43:50.940 --> 00:43:53.280 best of luck with your recent book publication, 00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:55.539 and we hope to chat with you again. Thank you 00:43:55.539 --> 00:44:27.820 so much. Thank you. Awesome, Fazli. Thank you 00:44:27.820 --> 00:44:32.679 so much. Thank you. Thank you. So that's that 00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:34.079 first little part. And now I'm going to read 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:37.260 your bio. And then we'll rock and roll.