Coming up on The 40s Formula. Happiness feels
like something we all want. But how do we get
it? We all believe we need to chase happiness.
When you chase happiness, it falls into this
goal -oriented pursuit. And then there's that
pressure. We are taught that crying is a sign
of weakness. I vehemently object against that.
Chronic stress is like the screensaver in your
computer that's kind of running in the background.
That is dangerous because that is what leads
to burnout most often. The most important decision
you will make for your life's happiness is the
partner you choose to spend your life with. I'd
ask myself, who's this guy if I'm married? I
looked at my partner and I got used to him. My
hypothesis is that disconnect is what makes us
feel so fractured internally. I've discovered
that there are hidden forces, the intangible
things that we live with every day. And I want
to shine a light on those things. Things like
***. We know it's in our lives, but we don't
talk about it. Sha In Yeo is Singapore's first
happiness scientist, a two -time TEDx speaker
and an upcoming author with her new book, I Miss
Feeling Like Me. She helps leaders move from
burnout to a place of success and fulfillment
using the science of positive psychology. Through
her company, Happiness Scientist, Sha 'un has
spent over 14 years working across the region,
teaching practical tools that help people build
resilience, manage stress, and create thriving
workplaces and homes. Her mission is simple,
to show you that you don't have to choose between
achievement and well -being. You can have both.
The 40s Formula. The 40s Formula. The 40s Formula.
Hosted by Jasmine Dillon, integrated health strategist
specializing in gut health, hormones, and midlife
well -being. And Amanda Lim, director of Lift
Clinic and a leading expert in female strength
and metabolism. Named one of CNA's top podcasts
and winner of the 2025 Asia Podcast Awards in
the Best Health and Wellness Podcast category.
The 40s Formula is your no -fluff, science -meets
-real -life guide to thriving in your 40s. Today
we're talking about something we all want, happiness.
But let's be honest, your 40s can feel like one
giant juggling act. Between work, family and
the never -ending to -do list, happiness often
feels like it's slipping further and further
away. We're going to explore what happiness actually
means, why so many of us are getting it wrong
and most importantly, how we can start creating
more of it in our everyday life. So if you've
been feeling like you're constantly running on
empty or just going through the motions, then
this episode is for you. And if you feel a little
happier after this episode, why not subscribe,
review and send it to a friend? That makes us
happy too. Hi, Shane. Welcome to the 40s Formula.
Hi, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be
here. We're so happy to have you and so excited
to be talking about today's topic, which is happiness.
Now, happiness feels like something that we all
want. You know, we're all striving to achieve
this thing, this feeling. But how do we get it?
Because I feel like in our 40s, we're struggling
so much with time management, family lives, work,
working out, menopause. There's just so much
going on. How can we get to that feeling without
feeling like it's something that we have to do
and have to get to? I think the challenge is
that we all believe we need to chase happiness.
And when you chase happiness, it falls into this
goal -oriented pursuit. And that by itself brings
across the notions of like, I need to get there.
And then there's that pressure. So ironically,
by chasing happiness, you are less likely to
get there. So then if it's not about chasing
happiness, what can we actually do? Like what
should we measure our happiness by? Yeah, you
know, there are many ways to measure your happiness.
But what I think is most important is how do
you actually feel on the inside? You know, and
sometimes our body already tells us when things
are going well or when things are not going well.
Or we have emotions, but you know, sometimes
we feel it, we disregard it, we dismiss it, or
we like distract ourselves by watching Netflix.
I mean, no judgment on those of who. to do it
because I do it as well. But when we don't acknowledge
some of these emotions, we don't get clarity
on how we're actually feeling. And then how do
you choose happiness when you don't really know
what you're feeling, right? So it's not chasing,
it's choosing and it's a journey. I think acknowledging
that in the 40s, it's part of our journey rather
than saying, oh, I should be like this. I have
to be like this because once again, it's pressurizing
to fit into a mold. So when you're saying choosing
happiness, So it's like you look at the situation,
you're at home, you know, you're sitting in your
comfy seat, you're watching Netflix. In that
moment, is it like then you're thinking, you
know what, I'm so lucky I've got this house and
I've got this sofa and I get to watch Netflix
when I want to watch it rather than being like,
OK, I need to buy something in order to feel.
Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. I think it's
about being present. Okay. When you're present,
and when I say presence, it's not always that
in your presence you're happy. And I think that
again is a myth. Do we have to be happy all the
time? We don't have to. I think acceptance and
presence of who you are in that very moment,
in a way, is fulfillment because then you only
have that moment. So if you're having that moment
watching Netflix, and for me I like to have a
glass of wine, I'm like, chill, this is awesome.
Right? Okay, yes. Do I have things that I need
to do tomorrow? Yes. But that's the future. And
many of us worry about the next day or we harp
on what's happened in the past. It's really hard
to be present. Yeah. We think about it. Yeah,
because you are constantly thinking, aren't you?
Oh, I think in your 40s, you're spinning all
the time. It's like overdrive, right? Yes. And
I remember, I think, I don't remember who told
me this first, but I think about it associated
with my parents. And they were always like, you
know, depression is in the past. Anxiety is in
the future. Happiness is in the present. And
it's exactly what you said. It's like, this is
the only place it could exist. So be here with
it. Yeah. But I think society and many people
that I've spoken to find it really hard to stay
present. As you said, the mind's always... in
overdrive and we pay attention to that because
if we don't we fear that we are losing out we
fear we're getting left behind and you know there's
so much comparison around us so we're comparing
well if you're when you're comparing you're not
in the present because you're thinking about
someone else you're thinking about something
else you know so being present is a practice
you um you talk about the science of happiness
now what does that mean It's really looking at
the research into understanding, you know, the
world's population, if we think about it as 100%,
there may be 10 to 12 % of people who may be
struggling, maybe clinical depression or, you
know, some kind of mental health issue, and they're
not thriving. But what about the 80 plus percent
who are doing okay and above? So positive psychology
is actually studying... that group of people
and asking a question, what enables them to be
able to feel good on a day -to -day basis? And
then you study that and you distill the science
and the research that comes from that into practical
daily things you can do. Can you share some of
those things with us? Like what do 80 % of the
people... Yeah, and that's heartening, by the
way. That's heartening to know 80 % of the people
are doing all right. Yeah, they're doing all
right. And of course, the goal, I guess, for
many people is not just to be okay. It's that
we can function better than okay, right? Of course,
on some days, that's incredibly hard to do. Yeah,
but one of the things is about relationships.
you know, good quality, strong relationships.
I'm not sure if you're aware of the famous Harvard
study, which is a longitudinal study where they
looked at people who have been past 60 years
and they examined all the different factors that
led to them being healthy and happy. And the
strongest predictive factor was the quality of
their relationships. And how many of us actually
do spend time to nurture those relationships?
So it could be a simple check -in, text somebody
that you love, send an emoji, call someone, whatever
it is. And that to me is one of the things we
can do every single day. And that reminds me
of why the sixth pillar of lifestyle medicine
is social connection. Because like you said,
the science of happiness, it's also the science
of health. Yeah. You know, people who are socially
connected and have quality connections are healthier
in the long run and it's not a coincidence. No,
it's not. I mean, if you have a good social network
and let's say you've been through something health
-wise, your social network will check in on you.
Yeah. They'll encourage you to go for a walk,
for example. They'll remind you to take your
medicine, right? Yeah. It's that social connection
myself. That is literally my place in the surfer.
Exactly. So one of these studies, I recall there
was one which said that men who are married are
happier, but women who are single... No, women
who are married are unhappier. Yeah. That is
absolutely... No, but the women who are then
single are happier than... Than the married women.
Yeah. Yes. So basically marriage benefits happiness
in one gender. The guys get their kick and eat
it. What's your thoughts on that? think it's
a journey I've been married 20 years this year
I celebrated my 20th wedding anniversary happy
anniversary thank you but if you rewind five
years ago during the COVID years I would say
that was a time when it was so hard You know,
I saw him every day, you know. That is hard.
All of us who are married, that is hard. And
suddenly all the things that I saw only once
a week because he doesn't work from home was
there every second, right? And that's when the
time I started asking myself, oh gosh, who's
this guy if I'm married? It was very stressful
to live in close quarters. And then over the
last five years, I've also begun to kind of ask
myself, well, what do I want in this marriage?
And I think we don't spend enough time to ask
these questions. And by the time you go through
the motion, oh, it's 20 years. Well, what have
you done? How did we get here? A lot of trial
and error. Yeah, and so I think that marriage
is something we both have to work together. And
maybe the reason why married women may not be
as happy is sometimes we, at least for me, is
I looked at my partner and I got used to him.
I took a lot of things for granted. And also
I had a lot of blockage from the modelling that
came from my parents about what a good marriage
looks like. Or what a marriage looks like, maybe
not even good, but what a marriage looks like.
And I, in a way, expected him to behave in that
mode. You know, so after I realised that, oh
my goodness, I could be bringing that with me,
I became more conscious and said, no, actually,
who is he? What am I seeing right in front of
me? Let that speak to me rather than the past.
So, you know, that presence was so critical.
And over the last five years, I feel like I love
him more and more. Which is done for, Sue. Because,
I mean, it's like what you said at the start,
which was being in the present. So you weren't
thinking about, you know, like things that he'd
done before or, you know, what can he do tomorrow.
But it's just like, okay, this is the guy that
I've married. Now I'm seeing him for who he is,
which I think is really a wonderful thing to
do. And I feel like most people probably don't
do that. Yeah, and not enough at least. Yeah.
And it makes me think I'm sure you're familiar
with the Harvard happiness scientist, Arthur
Brooks. Yes. famous for saying that the most
important decision you will make for your life's
happiness is the partner you choose to spend
your life with. Yes. Do you agree with that?
I do. After 20 years, I do. And I'm very grateful.
Sometimes I look at him and I think, you know,
I'm so lucky. to be married to this guy. But
as I said, five years ago, I may not have had
that thought, but I was stuck in the past. Yeah.
Hanging on to all the things he may or may not
have done, he may or may not have said. But once
I learned to let that go and realized that, hey,
you know, he was who he was and so was I. So
if I'm so -called judging him for that, but he's
not, then, hey, maybe I'm the one who needs to
kind of let that go. And so I can see him for
who he is. I heard somewhere that expectation
is basically the thing which causes more problems
because you're expecting things. I can't remember
what the exact saying is. I don't know. Is there
an exact saying or am I just paraphrasing? No,
there's something that it's like, it takes away
from your ability to appreciate. Yeah. And that's
the thing, isn't it? It's like I expect you to
do something, but you're not meeting my expectations.
So then that becomes something that is more of
an issue with me because it's upsetting me. And
then do expectations in family life, in relationships,
at work, you know, in all of these different
areas of your life cause people to sort of move
away from happiness? Having expectations sets
you up for a particular standard. And it is your
standard. But when somebody consistently or occasionally
does not meet your standard, then you are liable
to feel disappointment. And that's why disappointment
over time becomes resentment, right? Because
if you constantly fail to meet my standard, then
you are a disappointment. That's the narrative
that we start to create in our mind. But we have
to rewind and ask ourselves, well, where did
this expectation come from? It's a lot to unpack.
Because sometimes, as I said, it could be from
modeling. It could be from words that people
said to you. It could be from the environment.
for example, marriage, right? A husband's supposed
to buy something for you on your anniversary.
If you have that expectation and he does not,
which we see, you know, often in the movies,
then you're going to be disappointed. Yeah, this
is actually really funny because I remember before
we got married, my husband said, oh, we should
do that thing on your first anniversary, you
get paid per se. And I was like, great, yeah,
let's do it because it's very unlike him to suggest
something like this. And then... We get to our
first anniversary. I gave him the paper gift
and he was like, oh, I forgot. I'm like, seriously?
This is the first time. So anyway, 17 years later,
I still haven't gotten anything. And then the
subsequent 16 years, he remembered. No. And the
funny thing is, obviously the expectation was
there for the first one. But after that, I very
quickly let go because I'm like, yeah, this is
not going to keep. And with fewer expectations,
I wouldn't say lower. People always say lower
your expectations. that almost feels like you
need to betray yourself, right? But I think it's
a sense of acceptance that if this is the person
who this person is and we see it for the totality,
then the expectation is now pegged according
to what your reality is, not your imagined standard.
And that is much easier to do than say, I'm going
to lower my expectation just for you. It makes
the other person feel small, right? Yes, exactly.
And also like, does everything need an expectation?
Meaning, do you have to have an expectation of
a gift on an anniversary? That's a created expectation.
So if you go in without that, or maybe your expectation
is broader, like celebration. We will celebrate
milestones in our family, but it doesn't have
to be like, I will get a gift of exact value
X. It's like, maybe expectation's not even helpful
in a lot of situations. And then you'll be pleasantly
surprised. That's what I've learned. Everything
becomes a bonus. You're like, wow. oh, that happened?
Yeah. All right. Yeah. And then that drives that
feeling of happiness, you know? Yeah, that's
amazing. What do you think are some of the unique
challenges that women in their 40s tend to face
when it comes to their emotions and their well
-being? Yeah, one thing I've been experiencing
is being a caregiver up and down. Sandwich generation,
that's very, it's a very trying time, right?
My dad's 85. In the past few years, he has been
unwell. He's better now. But when we first experienced
his shift from being someone who's independent
and outgoing and suddenly I have to be with my
laptop in his house, just making sure he doesn't
fall off the bed or making sure his meds are
in check. So that weighs very heavily. But then
I've got two daughters who also need my time
and attention. I've got a business that needs
time and attention. So I think the challenge
is being pulled in so many directions. wanting
also not to let yourself down. You need to take
care of yourself, right? So how do you balance
that? And I realized over the journey of the
past few years being a caregiver and in all directions
was that I should not feel guilty about taking
time for myself because you are going to feel
it no matter what people say. You know, your
dad needs you, so you rush there. Your daughter
needs you, so you rush back. You know, you think
about dinner. So finding that little respite
for myself was something I told myself is going
to be guilt -free. That's how I got through it.
Yeah. What's your little guilt -free? Yeah, I
was just going to say, how do you know your self
-care? Just hiding in a quiet space of the room,
I think. Of the house. They're all going for
a walk. You know, I've got a little park outside
my place and I would just take off and go. Even
if it's 10, 15 minutes. And during that time,
I just deep breathe, enjoy the... If I have to
cry, I cry. You know, as I let it out, I process
it so that when I come back, I can be... a little
stronger than I was before I went out. Yeah.
And I think that's the misconception too, that
self -care has to be like a whole production.
Like, oh, I'm going to book a massage in St.
Regis and go in 90 minutes. And it's like, no,
a 10 minute walk around the house, be in nature,
breathe some air, see some sun. You know, it
really doesn't have to be a whole thing. Some
fundamental things really do work. Yeah. Right.
You just mentioned the opposite of happiness,
crying. Yeah. Now, is that a strategy that can
really sort of help you get to that level of
acceptance and being I don't want to say, okay,
so I'm not going to use the term happy because
I feel like happy just feels like, you know,
like up here. Yeah, which is great. You know,
I feel like we all should be there. But do you
feel like contentment might be a bit more of
a balanced term in this situation? So, you know,
letting it out and then being okay with it. Like
what other strategies can people use in order
to feel more balanced, I guess? Yeah, crying
is a way of release. We are taught that crying
is a sign of weakness. I vehemently object against
that. I cry a lot, so maybe I'm just giving myself
some system. But it's also a nervous system release,
right? The nervous system gets so wound up. We
are living in a hustle culture and we don't express
ourselves enough, right? And if I remember correctly,
Dr. Edith Eger, who was a Holocaust survivor
and now a therapist, she said, you know, the
opposite of depression is expression. It's so
powerful when I read that. And for someone like
her to say that and having seen so many clients,
it's something that I constantly tell myself.
If I'm not feeling good, I need to get it out
of my system in some way or other, right? And
so crying helps me, writing helps me, talking
to my friends help me, whatever. And I throw
every resource I have at that expression because
then the feeling that... that's so stuck here,
for example, doesn't stay inside. And that's
how you get to more balance because why are we
tilted over to one end in the unhappiness zone
is that we suppress a lot or we distract a lot.
Either way, the emotion is not released. And
when it's not released, it gets stuck here and
becomes the negative emotions, right? It's funny
because you've just obviously said crying, writing,
talking. And I'm like, wow, that is actually...
letting it out. And I mean, obviously, you know,
we talk about journaling, we talk about gratitude,
we talk about all this stuff. But it's just in
this moment, it's kind of like, oh, that is physically
getting those trapped emotions or whatever it
is that you're feeling out. Lifting barbells,
sweating heavily. Those are two other ways to
physically let it out. Pillows in the room. Throw
pillows, Joel. don't hurt anyone and that's what
we teach our kids right I mean at least that's
what we teach our kids too is like you know go
like you know when my I can see my little boy
get so angry sometimes and I just say you know
like you can hit a pillow you can punch the mattress
you know you can't hit anybody else but if you
need to physically express it you can because
they don't have some of those more sophisticated
tools yet right at four or even shaking you know
in somatic practice we say shaking actually gets
the body moving in a different way and it gets
the emotions released yeah And it's funny because,
you know, like I am a talker. So sometimes I'll
be like thinking about things in my head and
then I'll be saying it out. And I will get, mummy,
who are you talking to? I'm like, oh, nobody,
just myself. I just need to get it out. And then
even with crying, you know, like we do associate
crying with being sad or being upset. But actually
you cry when you're happy. You cry. I mean, I
cry sometimes when I laugh if I'm like laughing
too hard. And, you know, or if something really
moves me, it makes me emotional, it makes me
cry. So actually crying isn't negative. No, it's
not. Like, you know, I watch a lot of K -dramas
and they actually, I can't remember the researcher's
name, but there is a researcher who actually
studied why K -dramas hook us so much. Stop it.
This is great. Yes, tell us more. And the reason
is you see resonance in the character's journey.
It touches you and you cry. Wow. So you get release.
In that resonance. It's really funny because
my father -in -law is obsessed with Korean dramas.
Like, my father -in -law. Really? Yeah, this
is like an Indian guy in the UK who has never
really been exposed to, you know. Yeah, like
Asian media. And all of a sudden, like I saw
it on in the background and he was sitting there,
but so was my brother -in -law. And I thought
my brother -in -law was watching it. So I joked,
I'm like, oh, you're watching K -dramas? He's
like, oh no, dad's watching it. I was like, oh,
this is interesting. Definitely my parents -in
-law also, but more convention in Singapore.
Oh my God. GYG has done it again. GYG goes local.
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All you need to do is like or subscribe to our
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on it now. And make sure you do by November 23rd
to win. Stress seems to be such a big deal, like
in our 40s, you know, I feel like we're constantly
on tenterhooks, you're stressed out about everything.
How can we manage our stress in an effective
way so that it doesn't feel like too much and
it doesn't lead to things like burnout? Knowing
what kind of stress it is. To me, I see three
types of stress. The first one is actually positive
stress. So let's say you're preparing for a presentation.
And you've done it a few times, but, you know,
it hasn't always gone well. You have a little
bit of stress to do it better the next time.
So when stress is slightly beyond your comfort
zone, we call this eustress. And that is actually
good stress. It's just like working out. Yeah.
Right? You push your limits. Yeah. In the moment,
it's like... But then... you get stronger. So
if that is the kind of stress you're experiencing,
it isn't actually negative. We shouldn't label
it that way. Then, of course, there's chronic
stress. So chronic stress is like the screensaver
in your computer that's kind of running in the
background. That is dangerous because that is
what leads to burnout most often because that
is the one that you, because it's so constant
and it's become so commonplace, you disregard
it. You think, I'm fine. So that's the one that
we need to be on the lookout because chronic
stress over time actually has a physical impact
as well. Burnout isn't just emotional, it's also
physical. And then the last one is what we call
distress. Those are for the acute moments where
something that you didn't anticipate landed on
your lap and you just have to... summon everything
you have and sometimes everything you have is
just not enough. So you go under the water, right?
So I think first step is knowing what kind of
stress you're experiencing because then you can
choose the right strategy to deal with the stress,
right? And of course, paying attention to your
body. What is your body already telling you about
what you're experiencing? Two questions about
the three types of stress. First, If you have
more experiences of eustress, are you better
at handling distress? That's number one. And
then number two, are you better at handling distress
if your chronic stress load is lower? So let's
take the first one. If you have more experience
of eustress, will you be better at handling distress?
I think it's a practice. The ability to respond
to stress is a practice. So let's say you're
doing that presentation. What do you tell yourself
before the presentation? Your mental thoughts
affect your behavior and your physical body.
So if you're telling yourself, oh man, you know,
the last four times I did this, I totally sucked.
Then you are going in there with that mindset
and you may not show up the best. And then you
create a self -fulfilling prophecy of I suck
at presentations. So if that's the mindset you're
going into the distress, then I would say that
It may not help you as much because the moment
the distressing thing happens, you're going to
think, ah, it's happening to me again. I'm stuck
in this victim mindset. And the second question,
again, if you don't mind. Yeah, the second question
is just if you can keep your chronic stress under
control to the best of your ability, then when
those elements of distress hit, are they easier
to manage? Yeah, you build capacity. I think
this is what we mean by knowing what helps you
in those moments of chronic stress. what are
those practices that you are doing to support
yourself? And are they something you do on a
regular basis? Because if you don't, like for
example, people say breathing, mindful practice
is very helpful. But if you do it once a year,
you are not actually managing your chronic stress.
You're just managing on that one day. And that
is literally lifted from exercise science, by
the way. Building capacity is something that
we talk about as coaches, right? It's like, it's
cool if you can do a skill one time, but you
need to build your capacity to repeat that skill,
right? And that's how you actually get fitter.
Yes, 100%. So like running a marathon, if you
ask me to run it tomorrow, I'll pass me to run
it for 10 hours. I wouldn't even attempt to do
it. But if I've had all that practice. Maybe
I can't be the top person, but I would maybe
be able to compete it. And it's the same for
managing stress. So if we think of it that way,
then it becomes something easier to conceptualize
and build. And I think that leads nicely to our
next segment, which is Fuel Your 40s and it's
sponsored by The Meat Club. The Meat Club provides
sustainably sourced produce and protein direct
to your door. And you can get $20 off your first
order if you use code TFF. And the question for
you that they have is, How can you ground yourself
during times of stress and burnout? Is there
a particular food or a ritual that you tend to
practice that helps you feel balanced during
the day? Yeah, I like to drink coffee in the
morning. But I do know that if I take too much,
it kind of riles me up, right? And I get too
like... And so I also drink tea. Yeah, so like...
calming teas, peppermint tea, or I just came
back from China and I drink the Chinese tea that
has no caffeine. Yeah. And I find that at about
three o 'clock, that reaching hour of the day,
right? Where you got energy dips. Instead of
going for a coffee, I now prefer to go for a
tea because it gives me that calming sense without
the caffeine kick that affects my sleep at night.
Yeah, that's really interesting because I can
drink coffee all day, every day, even on an empty
stomach and I feel okay. But if I have tea and
I haven't eaten, I will literally throw up. Oxalates.
Is it the oxalates? One might say. One might
say. The tannins, I think it's tannins in the
tea. And I'm just like, I can't do it. I cannot
drink tea unless I've eaten something. Yeah.
Which is so weird for me. But anyway, as a Brit,
aren't you guys supposed to drink tea? No, I'm
a coffee drinker. Yeah. So let's talk about caffeine
then. How does, you know, you've mentioned that
you're cutting back on the caffeine because it
helps you. to sleep later on in the day. Now,
have you noticed that there's a trend with people
who have too much caffeine or, you know, don't
have anything and how their sort of emotional
well -being is? I can't say that I notice a trend,
but when I talk to many people who say that they
are cutting back on caffeine, the number one
thing they say it's because they can't sleep
at night and the sleep affects the mood. There's
no denying that. Even for me, when I love the
coffee, I mean, oh my gosh, I would love to drink
it at 3 o 'clock, right? But I totally can't
because I'll be like... an hour at 3am in the
morning and then the next day I'm grouchy and
so on and so forth. So that's what I'm noticing.
Whether it has a long -term impact on your mood
and some people do say there's a link to feeling
more adrenaline pumping through your body and
how that wires up your nervous system. There's
also been people who have talked about that.
But I can't say I'm the expert. Yeah. So obviously,
you know, sleep does affect your mood and the
way you feel. Stress, you know, from family life.
work life, all of that stuff. What else can affect
us in the way that we're feeling? The environment
around us. I'm for this concept of being able
to structure your ecosystem in your environment
around you, right? Choosing who you spend time
with, noticing what are your drainers, what I
call the drainers, what are the things that deplete
your energy and the things that replenish you
and then being more intentional about how you
structure that environment. But because we are,
we live in that environment day to day, sometimes
we're not aware. Yeah. So I always tell people,
let's do a little bit of an audit into your environment.
Love that. Because if the people around you are,
say, always on tenterhooks and all nagging at
you all the time or whatever, that's going to,
you know, erode on you, right? And if you're
not aware and you think that's the norm. Well,
then maybe you can make a choice to find a different
place or environment or maybe even just put on
something when your ears too calm while you're
trying to get your work done. So little things
like that can make a huge difference. And it's
like, you know, if you're always consuming stuff,
whether it's, you know, directly into your mouth
or, you know, whatever is on social media or
on TV and you're buying stuff. yeah you're gonna
feel like crap yeah you know and I feel like
how you how you are in terms of your sort of
behavior and your normal sort of day -to -day
stuff really does affect how you feel as well
so that completely you know that makes a big
Big, big difference. So you say that, you know,
you do an audit now. Can you give us a case study
of somebody who came in and they're like, oh,
I feel terrible, but I don't know why. What were
the things that really were driving that, you
know, rubbish feeling? Oh, yes. One of it was
this person came in feeling exhausted, like feeling
disconnected from their work. I mean, classic
signs of almost becoming burnout. And when I
asked this person a little bit more, she said,
you know, I have this habit of playing games
on my phone. Yeah, before I go to bed. And she
was asking me, is that why I can't sleep? I think
she already had an inclination that that's the
reason why. But I asked her, so what's driving
that behaviour? And she said, well, my brain's
too wired up. And I'm thinking about so many
things that's happening tomorrow. So I get stressed
and I find that playing games help me to de -stress.
But what she doesn't know is that the impact
it's having on the brain is that it's driving
the exact things that she's trying to avoid.
You know, so I think when you're not so aware,
you do these things because you can't tell that
it's having that impact in the long run. In the
moment, we all want pleasure. We run away from
pain. We go towards pleasure because it feels
good. But the dopamine hit also comes with a
drop when you don't get it. And so that's how
addiction forms. That's why we do doom scrolling.
That's why we go shopping. That's right. No,
my husband and I are always, you know, working,
co -managing patients that have health habit
problems. And definitely the doom scrolling is
related to the sleep habits, which then is related
to other. But exactly what you said, which is
like there are coping strategies we use. So she
identified that I do these games because it helps
me decompress. Okay. It's fair to say. But is
your strategy adaptive or maladaptive? Yes, that's
right. Meaning, is it moving you toward your
goals or away from it? Not saying it's not a
strategy. She's obviously figured out that games
gives her some sense of relief. But is it moving
you toward a goal that you really want? So, for
example, she wants to fix her sleep. She's feeling
exhausted. It isn't. So then it's like you have
to be honest with yourself about that strategy
is maladaptive. Yes. I need to find one that
is adaptive to my greater goals. Yes. So Amanda,
you know how I've been on this journey about
improving my sleep? Oh, you have been obsessed
about it lately. Well, I have found something
that has been incredible. Cozy Earth bed sheets.
That's saying a lot because you are really picky
about your sleep setup. Exactly. These sheets
are made from bamboo viscose. They are naturally
breathable. I get the perfect night's sleep.
They keep me cool all night. Oh, and I've been
eyeing the pyjamas too. They are so chic and
super cozy. It's a total game changer and so
relaxing for the evenings. And what's crazy is
that Cozy Earth actually ships to Singapore,
orders over $560 ship free, and in the US orders
over $50 ship free. And did you know you can
get your biggest ever discount, 41 % if you use
code TFF today. So head over to CozyEarth .com
and use that code TFF today. I love what you
said about being honest with yourself. You know,
on the topic of happiness and well -being, being
honest with yourself, it may be the seemingly
challenging way to get to happiness and fulfillment,
but it is a very important step because that's
where awareness comes in. What am I really doing
or not doing that is helping me towards my goal?
Right? Go. Well, I don't like the word go, but
helping you to get to where you want to do. And
if we're not honest with ourselves, we can be
in denial for many years. And then it maybe takes
something big to happen before you realize, man,
I could have done something, right? Yeah. And
I think being honest with yourself also applies
to being honest about the good things in your,
you know, so for example, being honest about
the scrolling habit not helping you, fair enough.
But also be honest. I'm thinking about your example
about preparing presentations and being like,
I suck at presentations. Do you suck? Because
why do people keep inviting you and paying you
to give presentations? I think you might be pretty
good at it. So being honest about your strengths,
I think will give you a lot of relief in the
future as well. Yes. Many people I find do not
know how to embrace. receiving compliments about
what they're good at. And by people, you mean
women, right? I think men are like, yes, he lavished
that face, just call me. Women are like, no,
I'm terrible. The 1 % of the men are like that.
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, so they find it really
hard. And I had this really interesting experience
when I came back after studying in the US. We
did this practice there that is all about strengths.
We told a story that we have been through that
reflected a certain strength. And the people
in our group were supposed to tell us what strengths.
they saw in the story. How cool. Yeah, it was
a beautiful exercise. I do that with my clients
all the time and it makes everyone cry. But when
I came back to Singapore and we did that for
the first few times, people would be embarrassed.
They would turn bright red. Literally, I had
a lady who turned tomato red. Sharing her story.
No, she shared it and people were reflecting.
She told me, Shan, I need to walk out of the
room right now. And I said, I was so shocked
because I totally loved hearing about my strengths.
You know, it was so refreshing. But she had to
walk out. And I said, what's going on with you?
Is that a cultural thing, do you think? I think
it's quite cultural. She said, nobody. She was
in her 40s at the time. I was in my 30s, 20s,
I don't know. But she said, nobody has told me
what I'm good at. I wanted to cry for her. Wow,
that's actually making me cry. Yeah. It was so,
yeah. And then she walked out and then she came
back and I just thought, you know, I'm glad you
came back in. Yeah. What people share with you
are the genuine things they have seen. You know,
sometimes we could take it in and just say, if
we have nothing to say, just say, thank you.
Because they see you as you. How you see yourself,
well, that's another story altogether. Wow. You
know, so. That's so powerful. Like, I think that's,
it's probably something not a lot of people do.
And I think it's quite normal. You hear a compliment
and you might say thank you. But I don't know,
like, like I'll hear things and somebody was
like, for example, people say to us, oh, your
podcast is great. And I'll say. Thank you. But
then I don't know. Are they just saying that
because they know I have a podcast? Yeah, exactly.
They're like, I mean, it is great. For the record,
all of our listeners out there, I know you agree.
But and I think I don't know if I if I usually
take things to be genuine or if my husband ever
compliments me, I'll be like, yeah, OK, whatever,
you know, because I'm like, oh, you're my husband.
You have to say it. I mean, you just say it.
Oh, definitely. The knee jerk is to say something
self -deprecating. Yeah, absolutely. The knee
jerk is to just say someone says I like your
outfit. You're like, oh, thank you. I don't know.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I got it on bargain, whatever.
You know, it's like you immediately self -deprecate.
I think that is a very embodied feminine pattern
of communication. Yeah, it's a protection mechanism.
Yes. Because we do it to ourselves first, self
-sabotage, so that when people actually do say
it, we have already said it. It's so painful
to see everyone do this, but it's that. thing
that maybe when you were younger that was what
you received or those were notions that were
said to you and we have outgrown that young self
but yet we still carry it forward right and that
makes it so hard to because it's protection who
doesn't want to feel safe we all do so if someone
we feel that someone's going to maybe say something
not so nice about our clothes or whatever we're
doing then might as well we say it ourselves
because we're used to talking to ourselves like
that But in the long run, that's really hard
for our well -being. And that's survival, isn't
it? Feeling safe, that's when you know you're
going to survive and it just comes back down
to human nature and what humans are designed
to do. So, okay, let's take a completely different
direction now. We're going to do this little
segment called Hot or Hype. It's like a little
game. We're going to throw out some trending
terms or facts and we'd like to hear your opinion
as to whether you think it's hot or hype. Okay.
Gratitude journaling. Hot. Yeah. How about something
like a digital detox? Can we go in between? Yes,
you can. Hot and hype. Hope. The detox has to
come with intention and awareness. It's not like,
oh, I'm just going to put my phone away because
you know what? Your old practices and habits
are just going to pull you back to your phone,
right? So it's the intention. Why do you want
to do this detox in the first place? And maybe
the thing is it's your sleep, it's your relationships,
maybe you are spending too much money shopping.
Right? So there must be a clear intention and
then not say it's more hot than hype. It's like
dry January, right? If February 1st, you're going
to just like face plant into 10 beers, probably
dry January is not a thing that you need to do.
Yeah, or you need to digitally detox while you're
in a beautiful villa in Bintan. Well, that's
pretty easy to do. Yeah, but when you come back
and all the stresses in your life start coming
back, is that really going to help you, right?
So intention, I think, matters to that. Yeah,
I think that's a great way to look at it. What
about supplements? So ashwagandha, what else
is a good one? Yeah, for happiness. Yeah, for
happiness. So mood -boosting stuff. I'm inclined
to say hot. Yeah. Because I have actually taken
supplements that do actually help me to feel
better. Which ones, Sha 'en? Share the teas.
Tea. Yeah. I mean, ashwagandha definitely contributes.
I take magnesium to help with my sleep. For a
bit, that's a sleep. Vitamin D sometimes because
although we live in sunny Singapore, you'd be
surprised how many people are shot on. I would
not be surprised. work every day. Everyone that
we speak to. And of course, like vitamin C, right?
Like the basic stuff that, you know, and the
kind of diets that we have are definitely not
giving us enough. But what I've learned about
supplements as well from a nutritionist or a
dietitian was that your gut has to be able to
absorb these supplements. So I guess if, and
I've learned that over time, my gut hasn't been
very good. And I used to be a teacher and I developed
very bad gastric problems. Yeah, so now I take
probiotics to kind of line the thing and then
I find that the absorption does help. So if you're
just chugging supplements without looking at
the whole system in your body, then it's very
expensive. Oh yeah, just expensive tea, right?
Yes. Chocolate, wine, shopping, shoes, handbags.
Hot. Yes, yes, yes. Keep going. Oh yeah, I wouldn't
say I'm a super shopper. Yeah. But I always shop
to... give myself a reward yeah yeah not because
i have to earn it but because i feel good yeah
like i've got a new gig sealed i'm gonna buy
that nice new thing i want to buy because i've
i've worked hard for this it's not a reward although
it sounds like it but it's like it's just celebrating
the win yeah That's how I look at it. Like when
we buy new workout clothes, which we've been
working out consistently for years. I don't mind
buying trainers and leggings and workout stuff.
I don't feel guilty about buying that stuff.
Oh, literally zero. Again, but that's our work
clothes. It is our work clothes. It's little
messages to yourself. You know, I always believe
happiness is built on the little. Words that
we say to ourselves on a day -to -day basis.
Okay, so then coming back to that, can money
buy happiness? Ah, there's a study which was
recently revised. Okay, so the original study
said that human beings need about 75 ,000 US
dollars to be feeling fairly happy. It was a
long -time study that was not dismantled. But
recently, they did say that certain conditions
also have to be in place. Just money alone is
not going to get you that happiness, right? Things
like social connection that we talked about earlier.
If you have all the money in the world, but no
social connection, it's also. But it's also true
that if you don't have enough money, it is going
to kick you into survival mindset. And that could
be really difficult. So there's no straightforward
answer. It's very nuanced. And we have to see
the context of how the person is living. Didn't
that study come out around the same time when
we found out that Bhutan was the kingdom of happiness?
And Bhutan made all the headlines. Do you remember,
what was the secret of the Bhutanese that made
them the kingdom of happiness? I don't actually
remember, but do you remember? Well, there's
something that I read, and it sounds so counterintuitive,
is that they contemplate death. everything that's
right that was in the comfort crisis I believe
yes so interesting okay so what they're doing
is they're they're not looking at themselves
as being immortal which I feel a lot of us do
we don't really think about death you know like
unless obviously it's imminent but that kind
of makes it look like right you're basically
making yourself which we all are, obviously.
And then you're learning, I guess, to live in
the present. Is that how it works? Yes, that's
right. So they contemplate not being like all
in the doldrums or stuff. It sounds terrible,
but it's not actually. And I do that. I find
that it keeps you alive and awake to what you're
experiencing right now. Not morbid thoughts,
right? But it's more like, oh, wow, yeah. I mean,
who knows what's going to happen tomorrow? You
know, when some people spin off and say, Kapai
DM, seize the day. And then they spend all their
money. Well, it's not that as well. I think we
have to come with a little bit of that balance,
right? But the contemplation reminds you that,
hey, you are alive. Yeah. You are living. And
yes, there's going to be hard things. We all
go through difficult things. But today. it's
here for you and what you're going to do with
today. It's beautiful to live that reaction.
It takes a lot of burden off our shoulders. You're
right, actually, because in the little things,
you know, your kids not putting their shoes on
before school don't really matter so much. Yes,
exactly. Yeah, wow. And then, so what would you
say are your sort of top three then tips to,
you know, helping women get the most out of their
everyday life? Wow, that's a big question. What
are the top three tips? Appreciation. I would
say appreciate what you have. They say that contentment
comes when you appreciate what you have. Very
often we have a negative bias that points us
in the opposite direction. We start to notice
what we don't have and feel less than. So gratitude.
Just now we talked about celebrating wins. I
think for women, we need to celebrate, shout
it out loud, whatever it is. It sounds like,
oh, you're so proud and arrogant, but we don't
do that enough. And we're not talking about big
wins like, oh, I appeared in a newspaper kind
of wins, but like, hey, I completed my first
workout today. Yes, that is the biggest win.
This airs. I had an argument with my daughter
and I didn't shout at her. I was able to empathize.
I mean, little things like this that weigh us
down and make us think less of ourselves, we
need to celebrate those wins. Little things are
the big things. They really are. They compound,
right? As James Cleo talked about, the atomic
effect, 1 % of celebrating small wins leads to
exponential gains. Imagine if we did more of
that. Wow, we need to do more of that, guys.
Everyone, more of celebrating the small stuff.
Shane, can you tell us what you're going to be
doing next? What's up and coming for you? Yeah,
I'm writing a book and it's called I Miss Feeling
Like Me. Yeah, and it's about how we, in our
journey to happiness, sometimes feel very disconnected
from who we are. And I think my hypothesis is
that disconnect is what makes us feel so fractured
internally. And I think over the last 14 years
of doing this work, I've discovered that there
are hidden forces, maybe the intangible things
that we live with every day. And I want to shine
a light on those things. Things like perfectionism.
Things like showing up with a big smile but feeling
like shit inside. Addiction to productivity.
All these things that we know it's in our lives,
but we don't talk about it. And I want to shine
the light on that because... with awareness,
then change can happen with little steps. So
it's definitely going to end on a hopeful note.
I am the happiness scientist. Yeah, thank you.
But once you shine the light, then we'll say,
hey, you know, there's a different way that you
can choose to live. Yeah. And that kind of harkens
to something that I think has come up in happiness
narrative recently, which is toxic positivity.
Can you talk us through what toxic positivity
is differently from authentic happiness? Yeah,
it's toxic positivity is when you just smell
even when things are hard. So someone told you,
oh, I lost my job. It's okay. You know, I'm sure
you can find one very soon. There's so many available
jobs on LinkedIn. You know, that is toxic because
you're not meeting the person where they are.
They are feeling sad, they have grief, lost identity.
There's so much that goes into losing a job.
And if you tell them, no worries, yes, the intention
is most often good. You're trying to help the
person to feel better. But honestly, that person
probably feels worse. So authentic happiness
is meeting the person where they are, extending
that empathy and say, wow, that must be hard.
You know, that job mustn't mean a lot to you.
Of course, if the person is like, I love my job,
then you meet them there as well, right? I mean,
authenticity is being able to see where the person
is and gently meet them where they are. That's
very different from just being blanket positive
all the time. Right, Cheyenne, this has been
such an amazing discussion. I've really loved
having this conversation with you because I feel
like it's something that's not just relevant
to women in their 40s, but relevant to everybody,
anywhere, anytime, small kids, big kids, little
kids. Yeah, and the longer you start thinking
about this stuff, I feel like the longer trajectory
of happiness you may have. So it's never too
early. Yeah, so much for having me. But before
we do go, we do have one more question for you.
And it's one question that we ask all of our
listeners. And it is, what's your 40s formula?
What advice, mantra or tips, strategies, anything
you want, would you like to share with our audience
who are in their 40s about how they can thrive
in this decade? My mantra is I'm doing the best
that I can given the resources that I have. Yeah.
And that's okay. That is a formula. I mean, put
that on a t -shirt, girl. I'm doing the best
that I can given the resources that I have. And
that's really the best that we can do, right?
I think sometimes we often push ourselves to
say, I need to do more, be more. And I get that.
I get where that's coming from. But honestly,
some days for me, my battery's flat. And if my
battery's flat and I still show up doing something,
that is 100%. That is not 0%. Many people do
not see it that way. But I think we need to live
that way so that we're not so hard on ourselves.
Yes. Thank you so much. I think you've shared
so much amazing stuff. And we're happier for
it. Yeah, for sure. So thanks for being here.
Thank you.