Coming up on the 40s Formula. What would you
say is one of the biggest mistakes that women
make when it comes to their skin in their 40s?
One of the biggest mistakes is... What would
be the signs that it's time for a facelift? For
retinoids. That's the best anti -aging ingredient.
You know, mechanical lifting will always beat
all these non -invasive treatments. When you
take high sugar food, you are actually wrinkling
faster. I once had a patient, she was told she
had fillers injected on the skin, but she went
somewhere overseas. It was really, really cheap.
What she got injected into her cheeks was actually
****. Oh my god. I went full carnivore for six
months. It did make my skin very clear. Dr. Chai
-Ling Lo is a Singapore -based aesthetics doctor
and the founder of SW1 Clinic. With over 20 years
of experience, she's known for her science -led
approach to skin, health, and aging. She's the
author of In Full Bloom and her latest book,
Stop Aging Like Milk, which takes a straight
-talking look at what really works when it comes
to aging well. The 40s Formula. The 40s Formula.
The 40s Formula. Hosted by Jasmine Dillon. Integrated
health strategist specializing in gut health,
hormones and midlife well -being. And Amanda
Lim, director of Lift Clinic and a leading expert
in female strength and metabolism. Named one
of CNA's top podcasts and winner of the 2025
Asia Podcast Awards in the Best Health and Wellness
Podcast category. The 40s Formula is your no
-fluff, science meets real -life guide to thriving
in your 40s. You hit your 40s and suddenly your
skin feels different. The glow's faded, pigmentation
pops up overnight, and you're wondering if this
expensive serum is doing anything at all. This
episode is for every woman who's looked in the
mirror and thought, is this aging or is there
something I can actually do about it? We'll be
cutting through the noise, talking about what's
really happening to your skin in your 40s, what
treatments are worth it, and what to skip entirely.
Let's get into it. Hi, Dr. Shai. How are you?
I'm good. I'm very excited to be here. So what
would you say is one of the biggest mistakes
that women make when it comes to their skin in
their 40s? I think one of the biggest mistakes
is that we look at social media and we actually
believe all the claims. Like, you know, there's
always this latest ingredient, unicorn tears,
magical elixir. And we're always chasing, you
know, we're always chasing the next ingredient,
next ingredient. And we're forgetting that the
ingredients that really will, the really boring
ones with many years of research, but they are
not sexy. So what should we be looking out for
then? I personally will tell all my patients
retinoids. Okay. So vitamin A. But it's not sexy
because everybody's heard about it and then they
hear all the horror stories. But the horror stories
come because these things actually work. So they
actually increase cell turnover. So you get that
flaking skin. So they're like, oh, it causes
flaking skin. But it only has this side effect
because you are using the wrong dose. You're
using it wrongly. Whereas things like your magical
unicorn tears and all that, you can... probably
pour a bucket over your head and have no side
effect because it does nothing. So retinoids
is one thing. And then vitamin C, very boring.
L -ascorbic acid. There's so many different vitamin
C salts, but the one with the most research is
L -ascorbic acid. The problem is that it's really
unstable. So you've got to have it in amber bottles.
I would say if you go to... say a pharmacy and
you buy a vitamin C and it's in this clear, beautiful,
clear bottle, you shouldn't get it because vitamin
C will not be stable in that. Wow. Amazing tip.
Yeah. No, I did not. Oh, wow. That's so good
to know. Okay. Let's get back a little bit. You
mentioned retinoids. Now, we've all heard of
retinol. What's the difference? So retinoids
is a more potent form of retinol. And both are
vitamin A, different salts. Difference is that
retinol is what you can find over the counter.
So if you want to start slow, then go for retinol.
That's fine. If you have your favorite aesthetic
doctor, then go for retinoids. Obviously, because
they are more potent, you get more effects faster.
But that's where you get a bit of flaking, peeling.
You need to use it when you're not going into
the sun. You need to use it with moisturizer.
But I think that's the best anti -aging ingredient.
Okay, that's so good to know. Like I said, that's
such a relief because that's the one that I actually
use religiously. So that's at least good. I don't.
I don't. I'm really bad. I'm literally just using...
Actually, I'm not using anything. I'm using cleanser
and then my moisturizer is coconut oil. So I
am really basic. Talk to us about that. Yeah,
talk to us about natural oils. You know, I was,
well, in my book, I actually mentioned one of
the most important things before you even use
any ingredients is actually cleansing. Okay.
You're doing one thing right. But it's not cleansing
like what people think. When I say cleansing,
all my patients will be like, oh, do I do scrub
my face for two minutes like an Olympic athlete?
No, but that's not what we want. The thing about
cleansing is, go gentle or go home. So the problem
is over -cleansing. You actually need to cleanse
more gently, not more and more harshly. I think
the main problems we're all doing is that we
are using cleansers that are too harsh. So we're
stripping the skin barrier. Then after that,
we're trying to replace it with moisturizers.
It is much better to use a cleanser that is...
gentle maybe it doesn't form but forming doesn't
mean cleaner it means stripping off the barrier
yeah do you know what that's such a good point
that you made because i really think that if
if it's not foaming we're thinking nothing's
happening wow okay so go gentler on with the
cleanser yeah what about exfoliation now what
do you think about that is that something we
should be doing or we shouldn't be doing i don't
think you need to over exfoliate okay sometimes
if you are somebody who wears a lot of makeup
i think occasionally exfoliation can help because
you're getting rid of some dead cells and then
your products can penetrate better but daily
exfoliation i think you're stripping more of
your skin barrier than is necessary So speaking
of daily exfoliation, retinoids do have an exfoliant
property, right? Yes. So are those still safe
for everyday use? So what retinoids do is they
don't strip the skin barrier, but they increase
your cell turnover. So imagine when you're young
and your skin cells are turning over once every
21 days. And so when you have an acne mark, it
disappears. But then when you get older, this
time taken for your skin, the change one layer
gets longer and longer. So 35 days, 41. So, you
know, adult acne is always a problem because...
they leave these marks on the skin and people
go, I don't understand, I'm having these marks,
they're hanging around like an ex -boyfriend
and it goes away. So what retinoid does is it
shortens it, making your skin behave in a younger
manner. So it doesn't really exfoliate mechanically,
but because it encourages the cell turnover,
so you don't have this layer of dead cells that's
hanging around. So it comes back to the point,
if you are using retinoids, exfoliation is not
necessary. But for somebody like you, you're
not using any... skincare that has this cell
turnover properties. If you want, you can add,
you know, mild exfoliation. Occasionally, I think
it can help. Peels be in the category exfoliation?
Yes, peels would be in the category. And would
that be like a monthly? quarterly? How often
do I need to peel? You know, people really like
the feeling of peels. My patients love peels
because of the feeling of peels. You know, after
that, your skin glows. So what happens is you
need to look at the percentage. Are you using
a mild peel or something that is stronger? If
you're using something in a clinic, then maybe
definitely not weekly or even fortnightly. Monthly,
a few months once. Are you combining with other
things like lasers, retinoids, you know? If somebody
is on Roaccutane or even applying retinoids,
I'll say, no peels because you are already increasing
your cell turnover. And of course, thirdly, what
are you aiming with the peels? Some people are
doing BHA peels because they are treating acne.
Then we are going to do a low dose more regularly
because we know the acne comes on every month
in the monthly cycle. Other people want a peel
so then they look glowing for a wedding. But
their skin will tend to be drier. Maybe these
will be a once a year before a big red carpet
event. You mentioned damaged skin. Now, when
we are getting into our 40s, our skin does change.
What are the sort of common changes that women
in their 40s will notice? occurring to their
skin. Okay. I mean, I can even speak from my
personal experience because when I hit 40, all
these things happen. The first thing happens,
your skin is going to change from oily to combination.
It's not completely dry yet, but we are hitting
that sneaky decade before menopause. So some
parts are going to be dry. Now, the second thing
is like you mentioned, the cell turnover is going
to be slower. So scars are going to stick around.
You know, you get one pimple, but the scar is
going to hang around for a longer time. time.
Don't I know it. I'm a picker. As soon as I get
one, I can't help it. I'm like there and I'm
scratching and then I'm like, oh, I've got to
be scarred out. And it's not just on your face,
like on your legs. You go somewhere, you cut
yourself and then that mark is there for weeks
and you're like, I don't remember that being,
you know. And then lastly, a lot of people think
I hit 40, I'm never going to have pimples again.
Unfortunately, that's not true. You kind of get
the worst of both worlds. You're still going
to have acne. But they tend to be the larger
underneath the skin, a bit more problematic,
hanging around for a long time. You don't get
a lot of them, but you still get them. So I think
these are the sneaky changes that come in. Well,
and you said, you know, the nature of your breakouts
change. Do you find that they're more hormonally
driven in their 40s? Totally. So does that mean
that we're helpless against them? Like, you know,
I mean, like if it's like a hormones issue and
it's going to happen, like what are the best
way to deal with hormonal breakouts? So, you
know, there's so many things you can do a hormonal
breakout because hormones is... just i mean like
you guys know it's not just your female hormones
cortisol is a hormone and that's why when you
don't sleep well you're going to break up break
out you're going to heal slower so the first
thing you can do is better nutrition hydration
first thing in the morning sleeping better you're
going to reduce your cortisol and of course you're
there's a lot of female hormonal changes that's
taking place i think by the time acne comes on
and you're taking that pimple cream and dotting
it It's too late. There are a lot of things we
can use on our skin to prevent our skin from
breaking out. So a lot of people treat acne like
when I see it, then I'm going to do something
that's wrong. In the 40s, you're going to be
using things like niacinamide. It helps very
much with pimples. It's vitamin B as well. These
really boring ingredients. I call it the beige
cardigan of skincare because nobody really is
like, what does it do? But it's so gentle, but
it does a few things. Anti -aging, it helps a
bit of acne, helps with oil control, but not
very strong. It doesn't kind of peel like HA,
doesn't exfoliate your skin like retinol. So
a lot of people say it does nothing, but it does.
And you use it on the whole face. It can be in
a moisturizer or a serum. The second thing is
azelaic acid. Again, this is one of these multitasking
ingredients, but not very sexy. It's been around
for a long time. It helps with pigmentation,
helps with pimples, comes and moisturizes, so
you can use it all over your skin. And I think
that... when I change that for my patients and
I'm giving them, you know, not empty moisturizers,
but moisturizers with a bit of vitamin B, a bit
of azalea acid, they find that in general, there
are breakouts. It doesn't stop completely because
sometimes the breakouts are due to you calling
your husband. Sorry, you still have your husband.
But the breakouts sort of reduce this. Then when
they get that breakthrough acne, that one or
two pimples, okay, that's where we dot with the
pimple cream. That is the best strategy I find.
Okay, so you've mentioned sort of applying sort
of vitamin B, vitamin A in the form of retinoids.
What about ingesting it? So like, can we take
supplements to help with breakouts? Okay. My
feeling about supplements is that when you take
a supplement, it doesn't really go to the skin
of your face. It goes to your entire body. Okay.
That's why, you know, a lot of my patients, I
take collagen, it's going to pat on my cheeks.
Well, it could go to your... But it's not always
true. And it doesn't work quite as well as topical
application. For us to take a vitamin and for
it to reach such a high concentration in the
skin of our face, we'll be ingesting such huge
quantities that it is not feasible. And most
of the time, we're going to pee it out. So by
the time you're taking supplements and you notice
your pee is bright yellow, you're just making
very expensive urine. Okay, well, that's good
to know. So I think now is the perfect time to
play a little game, which we call Hot or Hype.
I'm going to chat about some trending topics
for you and you can tell me whether you think
they're hot or hype. You kind of already mentioned
one, but collagen drinks. Hot or hype? Oh, it
is definitely hype. Oh, is it really? It's hype.
I wish it was true. But you think about it, just
because we don't have enough collagen doesn't
mean we take collagen. Same like when your hair's
dropping, you don't eat hair, right? Yeah, thank
God for that. What about skin boosters? Okay,
when you talk about skin boosters, are you talking
about the injectables? Yeah, I think that's what
I mean. That totally works for increasing dermal
water. So what happens is the hyaluronic acid
content in our skin goes down. And so you're
replacing the hyaluronic acid content in our
dermal layer. And that helps us hold water. Okay,
so my profile is doing something is what you're
saying. Your profile is doing something and you
look great. You're too kind. Baby Botox. Botox
is, you know, there were three treatments I put
in my books that totally works and Botox is one
of them. Okay, shout out. Botox, we welcome you
as a sponsor. Please come on the show. It has
years of science, but it's gone from sexy to
not sexy only because it's been there for a long
time. But it does what it does. It actually reduces
the excessive muscle movement. And when done
well, it's not paralyzing your face. It's reducing
this excessive movement in your skin. Don't forget,
your skin is going to be on top of your muscle.
Every time you have a muscle contraction, your
skin sort of gets creased up. So if you minimize
this excessive movement, you're also saving your
skin. So baby bowl chops for people who want
it. Minute doses, preserving expression. I think
it's a great way. Okay, that's good to know.
Yeah, I love that. What about things like red
light therapy? Yeah, that everyone's wearing.
Okay, so red light therapy, you've got to be
very careful. You have to use one that is bright
enough, what we call luminescence. So some red
light therapy... is not bright enough to penetrate
the skin. So like, you know, handheld devices
at home. I mean, if you're really patient, maybe
after years and years of using, but if you really
want something to help, you want one that you're
sitting in a clinic where there are a lot of
bulbs, it almost feels like it's almost too bright,
you need goggles, that does help. Two things.
At 670 nanometers, improves healing, it rejuvenates
the skin. And of course, there's a latest study
in UCL that says that if you expose your eyes
to red light in the morning, just two to three
minutes, three times a week, it actually improves
your eyesight. Oh my gosh. I had not heard. I
was just about to say, that is something I had
not heard about until I got on this chair. Okay.
So a lot of women go around saying we want to
age gracefully. Yeah. What is... So would you
say there's a fine line between aging gracefully
and giving up? Yes, I think it is a fine line.
You know, I mean, yeah, sometimes it is almost
like one of my male patients came and says, you
know, I have this girlfriend and she's so natural.
She doesn't even wear makeup. And my heart was
thinking for your girlfriend to not wear makeup,
she must do a lot of aesthetic treatments. So
that's the difference. What is aging gracefully?
Aging gracefully really is... Not overdoing,
but you still want to treat yourself and your
skin with some amount of respect. Like not wearing
sunscreen, that's not aging gracefully. It's
really throwing yourself to the environment.
Smoking, that's not aging gracefully. So I think
the first thing if you talk about aging gracefully
is having good habits. Before you even think
of aesthetic treatments or layering anything,
it is nutrition, sleep, exercise, mindset. If
you are always stressed, I think it shows up
on your skin. Yeah. So what would you say are
the bad habits then that can really show up on
your skin? You know, I think I have a culprit
for many of these bad habits. One is sleeping
late. Okay. Okay. So a lot of people think when
I talk about sleep, they say I do get eight hours.
But the eight hours sort of starts at 2 a .m.
in the morning and then goes to... The timing
of when you sleep is very important because like
you were saying, in your 40s and your 50s, you
really rely on these repair hormones at night.
They sort of are like the construction crew.
You know, so your melatonin, your growth hormone.
But the problem is if you're not in bed by 10pm,
this construction crew starts thinking, oh, she's
not asleep. I'm going to take a day off. So if
you sleep at 2am, they don't actually come and
repair your skin as much. So if your shift work,
you're the sort that is like a night owl, you
tend to have poorer skin. So sleep is one main
thing. And that's the same for muscles, by the
way. You know, if you don't get the proper timing
and amount of rest, then your muscles don't repair.
So all that work you do in the gym, for what?
I'm so glad I go to bed at 9 p .m. It's so reaffirming
to what we already do. Okay, so sleep. What else
would be a bad habit that people are doing? Okay,
one of them is sugar. Okay, and I think you guys
need nutrition. Just an entire episode on sugar.
Probably going to your area of expertise. But
for us, you know, sugar isn't just sweet things.
Like high -carb food, that's also sugar. And
I know for you guys about building muscle, I
think that's a no -no. But for the skin, they
form these things called advanced glycated products
and products. And these things make your skin
stiffer. And they can't be reversed. So imagine,
you know, crème brûlée and you're caramelizing
the sugar on top, making your skin a little bit
stiffer and that's how wrinkles form. So when
you take high sugar food, you are actually wrinkling
faster. And also spottier, right? It also contributes
to dark spots. I know Tyler, my husband, is always
talking about the banana, you know, the ripe
banana, the overripe banana. That's you on carbs.
That's your skin on carbs, I should say. And
you know, it's funny, isn't it? The Advanced
Glycation End Products actually is an acronym.
AGES. Easy to remember. Orders to avoid. But
a lot of people think sugar is just sweet foods.
But you know, if you just take a lot of plain
rice or bread, that would also form AGES. Yeah,
sugar needs a rebrand. In other words, people
start to understand that it's carbohydrate load.
You know, it's carbohydrate load. Right. So I
think that's going to lead nicely into our next
segment, which is Fuel Your 40s, which is sponsored
by The Meat Club. And they have a question for
you. And that is, how does nutrition play a role?
And especially things like protein when it comes
to skin health. I am such a fan of protein. I
am such a fan of protein that I once went full
carnivore for six months. Yeah, I love that.
Okay, we want to hear the whole thing about that.
But yes, okay. I went full carnivore for six
months because I wanted to write my book and
I wanted to know how it felt being on a carnivore
diet. So I only ate beef. Had a bit of salt,
butter. That was it. I lost all my friends. But
I put on a lot of muscle. I mean, in the end,
I found, you know, zero carbs wasn't for me.
But, you know, different people are different.
We do different sports, different activities.
But it did make my skin very clear. Oh, interesting.
It did make my skin very clear. No more processed
food, no additives. You know, it was very simple
diet. There was a lot of elimination. No sugars.
So I will say that protein is actually very important.
I'm not saying, I'm not demonizing everything
else, but I think that the first thing you need
to make sure you have in your diet is adequate
protein, especially for women, because we're
actually losing muscle when we get older. a lot
of us actually don't have enough protein. And
so, you know, I was looking at what amount of
protein should women have? And as you guys know,
there are so many different consensus, but I
think it's like 1 .5 to 2 grams, you know, per
kg. And the thing is, for us to make muscle,
we also need leucine, which is about 2 .5 grams
in one intake. So those people that graze on
nuts the whole day, you don't even get to that
muscle building, you know. So I think we are
all under eating protein for skin, for muscle.
Yeah, very important. Okay, now let's see if
you agree with my husband on this because he's
right there with you. He was carnivore for three
months and again went off it for different reasons.
Well, his is more cholesterol concern for his
own longevity. But anywho. But he's always talking
about that I need to eat more collagenous proteins.
So I need to eat more connective tissues. I need
to eat more, you know, chicken feet. Yeah. What's
your opinion on that type of protein? You know,
I think that animal protein tends to be much
easier than plant protein because they are more
complete. But as for whether eating, you know,
the ones with a lot of collagen, is it better?
I think that will depend from different people
to different people. Like we know that if you're
taking grass -fed beef, you tend to have more
the omega -3s and oils. Well, it tends to help
women because, you know, we want the whole complete
package and the oil. So it does make sense. Okay,
and I don't have to choke down the chicken feet.
Chinese people live on air, please. By Chinese
people, we love chicken feet. And you know, it's
an old wise tale. My mum used to say, you know,
eat chicken feet and then you will run faster.
I mean, that's not true. But oopsie. It's such
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Sundays taste a whole lot better. I actually
did carnival for two weeks. Did I tell you that?
I don't know that I knew that. But I did it at
the wrong time for me. I think in a... I did
it during lockdown. And so for two weeks, I decided,
and I think that was part of the reason I gave
up because I think lockdown had a massive effect
on me mentally. I couldn't then focus on what
I was eating. And plus it wasn't working out
because we couldn't go to the gym. All of that
sort of stuff. So anyway, I feel like I always
say to people when people ask me about the carnivore
diet, I think it's the ultimate elimination diet.
So, you know, if you are struggling with your
gut health or, you know, you've got... really
bad eczema or something's going on, that would
be the best time to try it out. And then you
can reintroduce. So it's not a forever diet,
but I do believe it can help people sort of get
to the root cause and figure out what's going
on and what foods, if they are foods that are
affecting. Yeah. That's a really good point because
a lot of my patients ask me about it, but you're
right. It's the best for elimination because
we eat so much different kind of food and additives
that we actually get a lot of health issues from
it. So when you cut that down, a lot of things
disappear. really the beef that's helping you.
It's the fact that you're not taking the bubble
tea. And that's what I do for my patients that
have a lot of skin issues because they're using
12 different skincare products. So we sort of
like go carnivore for the skin. We actually cut
it down and sometimes they're as simple as your
regime. Just a simple cleanser and say coconut
oil because you need some hydration. Then from
there, all the skin problems improve. But is
it so much the cleanser or just the moisturizer
that help up with the fact that they were not
using all these different skincare products with
fragrance and parabens? Then we slowly introduce
the skincare bag and, you know, see what works.
So what should we be looking out for in our products?
Because you just mentioned two things, fragrances
and parabens. Are there other things that are,
when you see a label, you're like, oh, this is
a definite no -no? You know, the thing about
skincare is a bit like the carnivore diet. Some
people can use skincare with all the fragrance
and it doesn't affect their skin. Just like how
some people can eat carbs, you know, or certain
types of vegetables. And some people have skin
that's so sensitive that just a bit of parabens
or a bit of skincare triggers a... reaction so
I think if you have been using your skincare
with no issues then I think there's no need to
eliminate it but if you have been getting sensitivities
sometimes it's good to have a reset that means
just stop everything and then go Very, very gentle,
you know, and then reintroduce it. And sometimes
it's very easy to catch a culprit. And the funny
thing is what you're not allergic to when you're
younger, you may become allergic to when you're
older. Yes. Especially during the 40s, right?
And I think after pregnancies as well. I feel
like each pregnancy you have, you emerge with
a different skin. Yes. Right. So let's go back
to basics. If there were three products that
every woman should use, especially in her 40s,
what are the three? products it should what three
products should they be okay only three no more
No, only three. I used to tell my patients this
thing called a $5 skincare upgrade. That means
if you only can use $5, how do you upgrade it?
The first thing I would do is sunscreen. And
it doesn't have to be expensive sunscreen. A
mineral -based, complete physical sunscreen.
You know the sort that you put on your kids and
they hate it because it stains, wipes? Because
that's the safest. It doesn't have chemicals
and it's relatively inexpensive. No fragrance.
My thinking is that there's no point using all...
these expensive ingredients, including retinoids,
if you're not protecting from the sun. First
of all, your skin is slightly photosensitive
after using retinoids and a lot of the skincare
ingredients in your skin sort of deactivate it
in the sun. So without sunscreen, nothing's going
to work. The second thing is retinoids. I love
retinoids because it's relatively inexpensive.
Maybe you have really expensive retinol creams
out there in the marketplace, but if you go and
see your doctor, they can give you a very nice
prescription for retinoids that's quite cheap.
And I always say you can It is strong. What you
do is use a little bit or mix it with your moisturizer
and you're creating your own retinoid cream that
is to your skin's perfect or optimal concentration.
Very cheap. And then of course, the last thing
for women after 40s, vitamin B, the very boring
vitamin. Why I say vitamin B and not C is because
C tends to be more unstable. So you're going
to spend a little bit more money or you're going
to buy vitamin C serums and every time it turns
brown, you kind of throw it away. So for me,
I never completely even use... my vitamin serum,
vitamin C serum to the end because by the time
it's half a bottle, when you take it out of the
dropper, you notice it's slightly discolored.
Don't use it. You know, some of my patients tell
me, oh, it's like using thick coffee. It must
be better. No, it is not working anymore. So
you want just a cheap, simple upgrade. Vitamin
B, very, very stable. And it's one of these multitasking
ingredients. Anti -aging, it controls oil, controls
acne. So in your 40s, you may get... You know,
it's a roulette. You could get acne, you could
get a bit of aging. Why not? Yeah, hit all the
bases. And that's a serum typically? Oh, vitamin
B can come in a serum, can come in a cream too.
Okay, let's look at a different aspect then of
women as they're aging and that sort of, you
know, their relationship with their appearance.
Do you tend to find that as women are going through
the 40s that they're really harsh on themselves
because of the sort of societal view that women
always need to look younger? You know, unfortunately,
this is very true, especially of late. I think,
you know, with social media, it isn't just women
in their 40s. Even young girls think that they're
not good enough. They're not beautiful enough.
And it doesn't help, actually, with this online
dating. A lot of my women, when they are re -entering...
dating in the marketplace in their 40s or 50s,
sometimes after divorces. They have this whole
pressure to look so much better because, you
know, when you are reintroducing yourself to
this dating marketplace and the only... A person
comes into contact as a picture of you. The looks
become very important. Whereas in the old days,
they would meet people, I don't know, in a club,
at a bus stop, at your work. So personality can
be a part of the attraction. But now, it is almost
completely looks. And on top of that... Everybody
puts a filter on themselves. So then they try
to live up to the expectations of how they look
with a beauty filter. I have so many patients
coming to me and they no longer take a photo
of Angelina Jolie. They take a photo of themselves
with a beauty filter and they say, can you make
me look like that? And can you? Can you make
people look like that? No, because the beauty
filter does everything. It doesn't just improve
skin quality. It also reshapes your face. Your
needing bone contour is ridiculous. So how do
you manage then that expectation when someone
comes in saying, I want to look like this. But
obviously it's not possible. You know, the funny
thing is because I actually tell them it's not
possible. I actually lose some patients who says,
oh no, but the beauty spa down the road says
it's possible. So then they go there first. But
of course, after spending tons of money, they
come back. And then we have a conversation. again
and I tell them what is possible and even what
is possible isn't a one -off treatment like you're
talking about Profilo or skin boosters they do
improve your appearance but it isn't one of these
things where you just do it once and it lasts
forever if only so yeah so they get shocked when
I say okay so you do it now but the maintenance
is but it's the same with exercise or losing
weight a lot of my patients come in and go if
you give me the Regovi or Zampi I'm going to
lose weight and that's it they don't realize
once they stop the weight all comes down yes
And the thing with exercise as well, like you
said, the reality is if you want to be in shape
forever, you must exercise forever. And similarly,
I think to skincare, and again, you can correct
me absolutely if I'm wrong, but you know, the
way that we exercise has to evolve as well. Yes.
So just because something worked for you in your
20s. does not mean that that's what you need
to be doing in your 40s. And I feel like skincare
has to evolve with you as well, right? Or not
even just skincare. I mean, can we talk a little
bit about the injectables and the things? I love
when people are like, oh, I never had to think
about this stuff before. I was like, well, you've
never been this old before. Oh, here we are.
What types of injectables? And I know this is
absolutely subject to each face, right? So for
example, I had a comment the other day. It's
like, it seems like everyone in their 40s is
getting Botox. I was like, Well, yeah, aren't
they? I haven't. And yeah, you're one of the
outliers. Are there certain injectable or, you
know, let's say more invasive treatments than
just topical? that you recommend for women in
their 40s looking for a bit of a boost? Okay.
The three aesthetic treatments I think that has
the most science, okay, are Botox, so the botulinum
toxin. It has to be Botox or Dysport. And the
second is fillers, dermal fillers. It can be
hyaluronic acid fillers or maybe some people
may even fill their own fat. And the third is
energy -based devices. But none of this is going
to replace a thing like a full facelift, a mechanical
pool. But this tree has the most science. So
like when you're talking about a face, how we
age, we have excessive muscle movement and that
happens with age is because your expressions
and some of these micro expressions cannot be
stopped. A lot of my patients tell me, okay,
I'll just not frown. But actually it's impossible
because those patients don't have kids. And have
you actually seen yourself in the gym just by
focusing or just by straining, you are already
frowning. And it isn't just a frown. Sometimes
just by lifting, you are activating what we call
platysmal bands. So you can see this muscle thing.
Too seen, Dr. Lo. I am too seen. So a lot of
people think Botox is just frown. I'm like, no,
it is for where you are. exerting too much muscle
movement and that pulls on your skin. So this
is the one that everybody talks about, brown
lines. That's me. A lot of people have these,
you know, in the 40s, they have this neck muscle.
So these patissimal bands that happen when they
sort of like strain or when they talk. This is
muscles. And this is the muscles that's pulling
at the lower part of your face, pulling down
your skin. So if we are... It's a jowl, right?
Yes. And I always say, you know, we can't stop
gravity. But if we can reduce the downward pull
of our skin, that's actually the best anti -aging
treatment you can have for your face. Because
gravity is always pulling it downwards. But if
you are always having this muscle movement, like
frowning, you're always frowning, you're always
unhappy, you're always straining your neck. And
these platysmal bands sort of attach to the bottom
of the skin of your jaw. And you're pulling downwards,
then you're going to have jowls. You're going
to have this not a very V -shape, not a very
sharp jawline. So Botox is one. Microexpressions,
especially crow's feet. And it isn't just smiling
or squinting. I have a lot of patients where
they actually have worse crow's feet on one side.
drive the right side has always more than left
so we always have to balance it out and they
always say doctor why do you put more on my right
side you're giving me 14 units but it because
you have more oh interesting and you mean that's
from the light exposure on the driving because
when you're driving there's always light and
so you're micro squinting oh my god yeah and
imagine you're micro squinting so many times
a day. You're squinting so many times and that
builds up. And then the skin will then thin out.
And the one common thing that a lot of women
in Singapore have, I don't know about overseas,
is this chewing, this jaw. And so it becomes
bigger because they grind their teeth. They grind
their teeth at night, I don't know, because of
children. And so that, first of all, it grinds
on your teeth, which isn't good, but it makes
you have a very square face. So when women get
older, Minus all the wrinkles, what you notice
is that the shape of the face becomes more masculine.
You don't have this sharp jawline. You're starting
to have a face that's a little squarer because
your muscles are going to become bigger. So what
is feminine? A feminine face is where all your
muscles are small and delicate. What is masculine
is when it's big. So all women tend to look a
bit more masculine with age because you're going
to have bigger muscles here. You're going to
have stronger muscles here. It's almost like
going to the gym but the wrong kind of gym for
your face. So Botox is actually... bury it the
most is you don't want to grow larger your jaw
and your jowls and your neck yeah yeah what about
botched procedures now you mentioned that you
know like someone will come to you and if you
say to them right i can't do this they go to
somebody else have you ever had to deal with
a botched procedure I think we're hearing about
them all the time on social media in the news
that someone's gone and they've you know completely
fucked up their face yeah how do you deal with
that and you know how often do you see that actually
we see that quite often um even for Botox and
I think that was reported in the BBC recently
I think in UK a lot of women were going for these
cheap Botox yeah and um They are not, I think,
the licensed one and they cause some problems.
So I always tell my patients when it's something
that you can see buying underwear, you can see
it, you can go for the cheaper one and you pretty
much know what you're paying for. But when it's
something injected, you have to find somebody
you trust. So Botox is one when you're not using
the correct product. it can cause problems. The
second is actually fillers. So again, things
that you inject. I once had a patient, she was
told she had fillers injected on the skin, but
she went somewhere overseas. It was really, really
cheap. And when it's really cheap, sometimes
you have to worry because the cost price of these
products are not that cheap. What she got injected
into her cheeks was actually cooking oil. Oh
my God. How did you find that out? Because we
had to test it. We had to buy Oxy and test it.
And how we knew was because the cooking oil started
having this rancid smell. because these products
have an expiry date. You're not going to use
your cooking oil for a few years, are you? But
the problem is that it cannot be dissolved. So
like when we use hyaluronic acid fillers, we
can dissolve it with hyaluronidase and you don't
like it. If it's your own fat, it's okay. It's
going to integrate when you lose weight, fat
cells disappear. But with cooking oil, it was
just all integrated in the tissue. We couldn't
get it out. First of all, we couldn't understand
why we couldn't dissolve it. It was hyaluronic
acid filler. We took a bit, we biopsied it and
it was cooking oil. And you know, these kind
of things lead permanent damage. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, it's like, you know, back in the 90s
when you hear about like breast implants exploding
or being filled with weird stuff. You know, it's
like this is, I mean, that sounds dangerous and
poisonous. You know, we're all so concerned about
toxins in our environment and people are getting
cooking oil injected in their face. Yeah. So
definitely check your provider. Yeah. Oh, my
gosh. What about these mummy makeovers now? Some
people are going to places like South Korea for
these sort of full on glamorous makeovers. What
are your thoughts on those? So Amanda, you know
how I've been on this journey about improving
my sleep? Oh, you have been obsessed about it
lately. Well, I have found something that has
been incredible. Cozy earth bed sheets. That's
saying a lot because you are really picky about
your sleep setup. Exactly. These sheets are made
from bamboo viscose. They are naturally breathable
and I get the perfect night's sleep. They keep
me cool all night. Oh, and I've been eyeing the
pajamas too. They are so chic and super cozy.
It's a total game changer and so relaxing for
the evenings. And what's crazy is that Cozy Earth
actually ships to Singapore, orders over $560
ship free, and in the US orders over $50 ship
free. And did you know you can get your biggest
ever discount, 41 % if you use code TFF today.
So head over to CozyEarth .com and use that code
TFF today. I know there are so many procedures.
And I think the latest craze is everybody's going
to South Korea to get this salmon sperm injected.
Okay, so it's not a full mummy makeover. So going
to South Korea is divided into a few categories.
Just a small makeover when you're getting these
rejuvenative treatments and then the surgery.
So the latest one is people get PDRN, which is
from salmon sperm. I know, it's like having sperm
in your face, right? I do this tiny little...
injections and it's supposed to improve your
skin. There is some science. So that is in my
book under the promising category because PDRN,
which is polydeoxyribonucleotide, is a protein.
It's been shown to help things like skin that's
compromised, burns, injuries. But the science
on whether it... turns back the clock 10, 20
years is a bit more iffy because healing skin
that has been burnt is very different from making
you look younger by 20 years. But having said
that, it doesn't do much harm either because
this protein does improve your skin hydration
and elasticity, whether it turns back 10, 20
years is a debate. A lot of ladies do notice
a nice glow. You get little bleps. They just
deposit a little bit of these protein underneath
your skin. It's not a filler, so it doesn't have
volume. So it's quite nice for glow. very popular
in Korea. People do it in Singapore too. I think
for these kind of treatments, well, it's no harm
if you are okay with the downtime, you want to
pay the money. I don't think the science is as
strong as your Botox and dermal fillers or energy
-based devices. But I think it's in a promising
category. Yeah. Then you have the... Others,
the real mummy makeovers where people go and
they look completely different. Now, it isn't
just a mummy makeover because you realise even
very young girls are going there and they're
looking completely different when you come back
that the doctors are giving them a cert because
then when they re -enter the country, sometimes
they look so different from their past. Of course,
yeah. Wow. Yeah, so it's quite as simple as a
mummy makeover. You know, in the old days when
we talk about mummy makeovers, we really talk
about a bit of like tummy tuck. after pregnancy
and a bit of a facelift. They still look pretty
much the same. And I think there is room for
that because, you know, mechanical lifting will
always beat all these non -invasive treatments
like it or not. It's just a matter of are you
willing for the side effects, the downtime, the
cost. And if you're okay for all that, then you're
going in with your eyes open. A deep plane facelift,
I would say that it still gives you the best
lift that... your money can buy, no amount of
Tamaj and Altherapy can compete with that. But
also a lot of younger girls that don't actually
need the facelift are going to get your rhinoplasty,
double eyelids, you know, bone contouring. So
it's not so much a mummy makeover, they're like
looking like a different person altogether. Can
we talk about the facelift situation? Yeah. Okay.
So what would be the signs that it's time for
a facelift? Like, you know, I'm thinking, and
I'll be completely transparent. I'm talking about
myself here. So had three babies, gained about
50 pounds with each baby. So significant weight
gain, weight loss in very short, you know, kind
of back -to -back pregnancies after age 35. So
like all the risk factors for skin laxity, right?
Yeah. Also, I'm a relatively lean person, so
I don't have a ton of facial fat, less as I get
older. So I feel like I'm a great candidate for
mechanical lifting. How would I know that it's
time? Like basically, how many vials of filler
am I now injecting versus like, you know what,
Amanda, it's just time for the lift. How would
you advise? That's a great question. First of
all, there are... like a few types of facelift.
You get your mini lift, you know, so like small
incision, lift. Then you get your smash facelift
where it just lifts the top part of your skin
and the muscle layer. And then you get the deep
plane where they are going in all the way, getting
rid of all these ligaments that is kind of pulling
down your skin, sticking your skin to the muscle
and then deep plane facelift. That's just giving
me face off vibes. Well, it's still the face
off vibes, which is why I'm in for it. So usually
when a person is in their 40s, they're only looking
at a mini lift or a smash lift. That's a small
incision, two to three hours. It's going to last
you five to ten years. Wow. Okay. Yeah, that's
easy trader. What it does is that it will lift
the mid part of the face. Maybe it doesn't do
your forehead. Maybe it doesn't get rid of all
your jowls and doesn't really address your issues.
So if your issue is just you want a little bit
of lifting mid part of the face, I think that's
quite good. Past 50, some people also consider
the deep plane facelift because then your sagging
becomes a bit more obvious. You also start having
this kind of jowling down here. So you want something
more deep plane. But having said that, everybody
ages at such a different rate nowadays. In the
old days, you know, my mom and all her friends
look kind of like certain way at 50, at 60. Nowadays,
I'm seeing women at 50 and they look really good.
They look like... like 40 and I think maybe it's
because they started aesthetic treatments young
they eat right you know so it's not the usual
consensus where after 50 you're doing a deep
plane in the 40s you're doing a mini may not
hold so much but I think the other thing is what
your aesthetic goals are I think if you're always
using an Instagram filter all the time, maybe
then it's time to realize that you are not getting
the aesthetic goals that you want. And the second
thing I tell my patients is, fillers does improve,
but it gets to a point where you are putting
that vial of filler and you don't think it helps
and it's making you look slightly puffy. Now
that's when you should stop because... The fillers,
you want it to sort of lift the skin and contour.
But when you're putting so much volume to tighten
your face, then you are compromising the whole
facial shape. Yeah, and I think I've definitely
seen people like that before, right? Where it's
just like they just become puffed exactly. It's
almost like, you know, their eyes or their cheeks
are coming up so high that their eyes are...
Yes, because they are using one modality. To
get the results of the others. The filler is
to just contour, lift a little bit. But if you
have to put so much, it's like blowing the balloon
so much so that the surface feels tight. That
is all wrong. So, you know, there is a good time
to actually stop the filler and consider skin
tightening. Before you blow up like the balloon.
I love all your analogies, right? You don't want
to age like milk. You don't know. You don't want
to start aging like that. You don't want to age
like wine. Would you say aesthetics help with
confidence or can it really highlight insecurities
as well? So from my perspective, what I think
is one of the reasons why I haven't gone down
that route is because I feel like if I start
doing treatments and procedures, eventually I'll
just keep seeing the flaws and be like, oh, I
need to do this now. Oh, I don't like this. I
need to do this. So do you see sort of both sides
where... initially helped to the confidence but
then someone became very insecure about the way
they looked yes and i think that really depends
on the person there are some people genuinely
they are very confident And so they may not even
need much. And when they do it, they know exactly
when to stop. And these are the women who come
in and tell me, I just want some lasers to get
rid of the pigmentation. And no matter what their
friends say, they are not going to have sperm
on their face. They're like, draw the lines.
I'm just going to get rid of my mouth. So these
are the really confident. And I really appreciate
them because they know exactly what they want.
But they treat their body and the skin like a
temple. And there's nothing wrong with loving
yourself and wanting to get rid of... that's
come on during pregnancy. There you go. Then
there are women where, you know, they are showing
you all sorts of photos of themselves like you
know that day I took this photo and then I saw
this line and they don't realise it's the lighting
it's that day whether you slept or not and they
are just looking at all the floors in fact sometimes
I can't see and they have to expand the photo
and we are both looking at it and you know by
the time you are showing me something that can
only be seen in a certain light on last Tuesday
when you're out with your boyfriend and we have
to magnify our boyfriend 20 times you are getting
to be slightly insecure but you know the Proof
is that there are providers that feed into this
insecurity. Because it's an industry where it
is very lucrative. And so these women can go
down the rabbit hole. And I think there is that
fine line, isn't there? There is that fine line.
Is it going to make you feel better or worse
about yourself? And it's the same with weight
loss, right? So many women, before they lose
weight, feel like as soon as I lose the weight...
all the problems will vanish, right? So that's
the only thing standing between me and eternal
happiness. And they probably do the same thing
with aesthetics, right? As soon as I get this,
this, this fixed, then everything will figure
out for me. And we both know that's not going
to happen. Yeah, it's true. So you mentioned
promising techniques that's mentioned in your
books. Are there any sort of technologies or
things out there? in the horizon that you're
excited about that you think could be a game
changer for women that don't include, you know,
like full -on facelifts or anything like that?
You know, there are several technology, but they
are not new because the ones that have the most
research have been around for a long time. So
like your energy devices, you'll have the ultrasound,
the alt therapy, your radio frequency, like the
Tamash, they still have. good science and research
all these devices they come in some variation
sometimes there's some micro needling but it
is still energy -based devices um the ones in
the horizon that everybody's talking about like
you know I hear people having all these drips
of vitamins. That tends to be still more iffy.
I know maybe you're thinking like what King Kardashian
did, like the vampire facial, taking out the
blood and putting back. That also falls into
the iffy category. Mainly, if you think about
it, what they are doing is they are drawing your
blood and then they are sort of centrifuging
it, spinning it, and they are telling you, I'm
going to take out all the good things like the
stem cells. I'm going to put it back into your
skin. So if you are 20 to 25 years old, you have
a blood of a 20 to 25 year old. Yeah, I'm sure
it's filled with growth factors. stem cells great
you're gonna love it because they're gonna spin
it you're gonna get a lot of the good stuff gonna
put it back but you're only 20 to 25 your skin
doesn't really need it by the time you're 50
your blood's not 25 years old your blood is that
of a 50 year old you don't have that much good
stuff inside so no matter how I spin it it's
still a 50 year old blood and I'm putting that
back into your skin yeah So maybe I should get
my daughter's blood. Okay, that's like straight
from the Brian Johnson documentary, right? I
get my kid's blood and I put that in my face
and I live forever. That's why I think Brian
Johnson, didn't he use his son's blood? Wow,
yeah. And I think, didn't he give his blood to
his father? In a way, he actually has some, you
know, signs behind it. He's not using his own
blood. He's actually getting a younger person's
blood. But I didn't think about it for aesthetics.
My daughter's skin is amazing. She's five. But
that's the only reason why we have kids. Fathers
sting their blood. Yeah, because again, they're
doing damage to our frown lines. So at least
they ought to give us something. Something bad,
yes. Right, Dr. Chai, we're coming to the end
of the conversation, which has been amazing,
by the way. I think you've given us so much to
think about. But before we finish up, we do have
one question we like to ask all of our guests.
And that's, what's your 40s formula? So if you
were to give some advice to our listeners on
how not to age like milk, what would you say
that is? Okay. Well, there's so many things.
If there's one thing I can do, okay, it's going
to be so boring, but it's true. It's got to be
sunscreen. Okay. Yeah. Boring stuff works. We
love boring on the show. And especially in Singapore.
Yes. Yep. Huge piece of advice. Great. Well,
thank you so much. It's been incredible. Everyone,
remember to get your sunscreen on. Yes. And take
note of what Dr. Chai has said on how to age
not like milk. Yes. Not like milk. Thank you
so much. No, this is the bit we're doing now.
Oh. We record it and then we just go straight
into the interview. Oh, okay. Because this is
going to be looking into the camera. Oh, no worries.
Yeah. Okay. Sorry. All the exciting behind the
scenes.