coming up on the 40s formula when you are in
debt it's like a prison yeah yeah and you feel
like there's no way out Is there a way? There
is a way. Own money habits are formed probably
by age seven because every dollar extra you earn,
you're paying your future self. And there are
about four to five different money personalities.
Until you understand that, you will never get
a handle of your finances. If you leave money
in cash, you're losing your purchasing power.
There's never a good time. It's just, just do
it now. The 40s Formula. The 40s Formula. The
40s Formula. Hosted by Jasmine Dillon, integrated
health strategist specializing in gut health,
hormones, and midlife well -being. And Amanda
Lim, director of Lift Clinic and a leading expert
in female strength and metabolism. Named one
of CNA's top podcasts and winner of the 2025
Asia Podcast Awards in the Best Health and Wellness
Podcast category. The 40s Formula is your no
fluff, Science Meets Real Life Guide to Thriving
in Your 40s. In this episode, we're diving into
what it really means to build wealth in your
40s, from investing wisely and managing debt
to planning for retirement and creating financial
freedom that actually supports the life you want.
Your 40s are the decade that define your financial
future, but most women don't even know it. Today,
We show you how to change that. And if you enjoyed
this episode, don't forget to like and subscribe
and share it with a friend. Alexis, welcome to
the 40s Formula. We're so glad that you're here.
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited
about today's episode. Yay, us too. And hey,
knowing that you're a financial advisor, I'm
going to hit you up for advice, okay? This is
my privilege as host. What are the two most important
things for women in their 40s to know about building
wealth? I think... When you're in your 40s, it's
really important to understand that you've still
got time. I feel like a lot of women, when they
hit their 40s, suddenly think, I'm running out
of time. And it's purely because, you know, the
20s to 30s just seems like they've gone by so
quickly. They have. Oh, God, yes. Yeah. So I
think it's really just slow down and take stock
of where you are and really understand where
are you wanting to go. Understand your value.
at this age and just get really clear about what
you're wanting to do. I want to be a billionaire.
Yes, if I'm very clear about that. But really,
truly, if you were to give a piece of advice
for someone who just, you said clear about what
they want, right? What they want is to get as
much money as possible in their 40s. What's their
first step? Education. You've got to educate
yourself and understand. Your money that's coming
into the household, where is it going? What are
you spending it on? What are you wanting? Yeah.
Children. What are you wanting your money to
do for you? And if it's not working, take a step
back, assess it. and change your relationship
with money because the daily money habits that
you start to bring into your household are going
to make a big difference. I think that's something
that I'm glad to hear you say, Alexis, because
in the world of fitness and health, you know,
where I exist, it's all about the compound interest
of small habits, right? It's the small little
things that we do every day that eventually,
hey, you're a fit person. So what I'm hearing
you say is like, it's the small ways that you
manage money on a day -to -day basis and suddenly
you're a rich person. If you want to be. Yeah,
just automate it. You know, how we pay for our
Netflix and we pay for all these other subscriptions.
Automate your wealth. And it's kind of in your
mind you've already ticked it off. Oh, I love
that. So would you recommend then having a certain
amount of savings going in versus, you know,
sorry, in comparison to how much you're earning,
like what's the ideal number we're looking at
then? I think for everyone it's different. And
it's very hard for me to say, look, it should
be 20 % or it should be 30 % because there may
be some women that will go, actually, that will
leave me tied because I know I've got. kids activities
to pay for or actually I really don't want to
sacrifice this one time I get to go and exercise
or go out so I think it's about taking stock
and saying what is affordable and actually if
it is five hundred a thousand dollars am I going
to have to change my lifestyle dramatically is
it going to make me feel pressured or actually
is that money that is comfortable to go and when
it comes to investments Just putting it into
a bank account, is that the best way to manage
your finances? Or do you recommend doing something
more with it? With every client, I'm always very
simple with clients because I feel like we overcomplicate
the basics and it really puts people off. And
it's probably the same in fitness. Absolutely
the same. So keep it simple. Make sure that everyone
understands it. And you've already got the commitment
there. So with every client, I'll talk about
three buckets. The first one being your instant
access, you know, money that you're going to
get cash out, spend it on everyday living. Your
second one is your emergency fund. So it's in
reach, but it's a little bit further away. And
that still would be cash. And that would be,
you know, maybe a year's worth of expenditure,
a little bit more. And then your third pot is
your investing pot. And that is something that
we're going to push to the side and we're going
to leave to let grow. So you do suggest kind
of that longer term. approach for that third
bucket of money. Yeah. OK, so let's talk about
two things that might be in that third bucket
that intimidate the hell out of me. OK, one is
is property investing. So the idea of having
property to appreciate. And one is the stock
market, which is like not the long term investment
necessarily kind of could be, you know, a bit
shorter term. Are these necessary things that
women need to master in their 40s? Like basically
by this age, should we be owning property and
in the market at to some extent? I believe so.
And it's typically because if you leave money
in cash, we know, history tells us, that that
money is just not going to grow as much as property
or the stock market or any other investments.
So we really do have to start thinking differently
with that third pot of money to say, how do we
want that to... to behave how do we want that
to grow and also how is that going to pay my
future self yeah and if it's a cash and it's
in low interest that's not really going to do
it and that's the bank account thing right I
mean money in a bank account like it's making
money but is it because if you account for inflation
and all that right yes and that interest rate
it seems to be so low yeah yeah and do you need
to have like a an appetite for risk then if you're
looking at stocks and and shares, is that something
that you need to be into? Or is there like a
more safer option for investing? I think it's
your relationship with risk, again, is different
for everyone. And it's based on your own family
dynamic and what you're wanting to do with money.
But even leaving cash in the bank account, there
is a risk. There's a risk that you're losing
your purchasing power. And you're saying, I'm
okay to do that. But there's always an opportunity
cost with everything you do. So I think it's
understanding the relationship between risk and
reward. And if you imagine like a pyramid, you
know, the higher you are up to the pointy end,
the higher the potential risk, but the higher
the potential reward. So as a client, I'd be
thinking, do I have a little bit of color? in
each one of those steps. Do I have a gradient
pyramid of money and investments? The ombre effect.
Yes, the ombre pyramid, if you will. And just
understanding that and saying, well, actually,
if I'm all in that bottom foundation and I'm
cash, is that going to take me to the next step?
But on the flip side, if I'm all really in the
pointy end and it keeps me awake at night, it's
affecting my day -to -day decisions. that's probably
not right for you either that sounds very stressful
it is that that's how that reminds me of like
gambler you know people who are like gamblers
you know it's like they just literally like are
on edge all the time that they're going to be
broke it's like no I can't live that way when
you talked about long term right so like kind
of making sure that you're you're investing something
that like will pay off down the line this is
something I definitely struggle with in explaining
to my own clients so for example we're always
talking about if you're trying to lose weight,
doing it the slow and steady way so that you
maintain your muscle mass, so that your metabolism
can function, you know, optimally into the future,
blah, blah, blah, right? It's a hard sell. This
is my whole point, right? Like, I feel like we
all glazed over when I just said that sentence.
Like, you know, it's like, it's a hard sell that's
like, this is something good for your future,
you know, but it is, but it's hard to sell the
future. How do you help women kind of conceptualize
this distant future where they have the life
that they want? I think it's definitely about
visualization. and trying to take your clients
on a journey to say, look, you're 42 now. When
do you want to be more flexible with work? Not
retire, just be more flexible. And maybe that's
62. Now imagine yourself at 62. Are you living
in abundance? Or are you scrumping and saving?
Because those are two realities. And I'm sure
we all know women in our lives, in our family,
that are living those two different versions.
We have a choice at this point in time to choose
which one. And if we make small daily habits,
we're disciplined. You know, over time, that's
going to be in your favor and you are paying
for your future you. Give us some small habits
that matter. You know, again, in health, there's
so many things that people do that don't matter.
And then they look over the things that do. What
are the things that matter financially? You've
got to have a budget. And I know it seems really
boring, but you have to. And same with the gym.
And when you're taking kids to school, you have
to have a timetable. So what does your budget
look like? Colour code it, make it look nice.
But there has to be savings in there. And it
has to be in those three pots. And you're driving
those pots forward. So saving monthly, putting
something away for your future self is really
important. And let time do its side. And in terms
of a budget, you mentioned monthly. So are we
reviewing our budget monthly? Are we doing like
an annual thing and just kind of setting up the
automations that hit monthly? What's your advice?
I think depending on your pay. So if you're paid
fortnightly, let's look at taking something out
fortnightly. If you're paid monthly, let's do
that. But it's just trying to get into the rhythm
of when all your other subscriptions go out,
your memberships, let's have... you know, your
savings out at the same time. Okay. Let's talk
about the little subscriptions. I always think
so. So there was a point where we had Disney
plus Netflix, Hulu, something, something, something.
And finally my husband was like, pick one. We're
doing one. Cause it's like that little $12 every
month was like really starting to add up across
five memberships. Where are some blind spots
that women aren't thinking about in terms of
cutting back some of those excess expenses? I
think if I reflect on myself. It's probably being
too emotional with money. And if I'm, you know,
I can be emotional if I'm in the shops and I
can have that. I'm going to buy this because
it's going to make me feel better, make me look
better. But do I know if I go back to my wardrobe,
I've probably got that dress in. The same colour,
the same cut. Yeah. Probably. That's usually
me. If I like something, I'll buy like three
different versions of this same outfit. But I
also noticed, so one of the things I found about
myself is I can very easily buy things for my
kids, my husband, other people. But when it comes
to me, I'm like, I have to love it. I have to
really, you know, like I have to see something.
then leave the shop. And then if I'm still thinking
about it, I then go back and get it. I can't
instantly buy it. My husband, on the other hand,
is completely different. He's like, I need a
TV. He's going to go into a shop. He's going
to buy the TV. Yeah, there's no guilt, but also
no like thought process. For me, I think about
it and think about it. And then I go back and
it's gone. And then I'm like, nah, I missed my
chance. Now, do you find people do that with
money as well? Like, you know, when it comes
to say investing something, can you miss your
chance on certain investments? Yeah. If you if
you spend too long thinking about it. Absolutely.
And, you know, you might say, well, it's not
a good time now. But when is a good time? And
actually, are you in a position to make that
decision? Again, that comes back to healthy habits
as well, doesn't it? You know, there's there's
never a good time. It's just just do it. Do it
now. We were talking about yoga off air before
this. And it's like I love when I invite someone
to yoga and they're like, oh, I'm not flexible
enough for that yet. I was like, how do you think
you get flexible? Like you must go to the thing
and get flexible. You're not just going to wake
up one day and be like, I'm ready for yoga. So
I feel like investing is the same. You just got
to, you know, dip a toe, jump in. Absolutely.
And how do you know when you're ready though?
Like how would you be like, right, now is the
moment that I'm going to put this money into
this thing. Well, you've got to have done your
homework. So you do need to speak to someone,
financial advisor, trusted, someone in your circle.
And like I said, understand. the money that you've
got and have you got enough money in cash? And
then when you are investing, whether it be in
the property or the stock market, the daily fluctuations,
they're actually not going to affect your day
-to -day behavior. And that's the most important
thing. If you go all in, you know, that's when
people get it wrong and they get too emotional
and they get stressed about it. And then that's
just not healthy. And that's the putting all
your eggs in one basket. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
So talk about that. If you were to think about
an ideal client profile, this client is us. So,
again, I'm asking for free advice this entire
episode, Alexis. So you got women in their 40s.
We got kids. Yeah. All right. So we're married
with children. So we have, you know, future like
we're doing financial planning for not just ourselves.
OK, what would our ideal profile look like in
terms of where we would be investing our money?
Depends what you want to do. Okay. And it feels
like I'm bashing off a lot of these questions,
but I don't mean to be. What I'm trying to say
is everyone is different, but we know women generally
live longer than men. Yes. So if we are planning
for the hundred year life. Yes. We need money.
Definitely are planning for the hundred year
life. So we need money to sustain that. So what
have we got now? What would we like in the future?
When would we like to stop work? What type of
money would we like? and actually let's then
work backwards to understand, well, what do we
need to do now? And that's that small monthly
habit because actually if you break it down,
it actually feels okay. It feels like it's doable.
So that would be my advice there. And then when
you're thinking about the children, it's probably
focusing on education to say, well, what would
you like your children to do? While we're here
in Singapore, potentially we've got the school
fees, but if they're going on to university in
different countries, That can be very expensive.
Oh, yeah. And again, that's where our profiles
would probably differ very, very much because
you have the international school fees and I
have local school. So my school fees are a distant
fear rather than an immediate concern. So if
you know you have that coming up, then already
we've got the time frame because we know, well,
actually, if I'm going to give up work at 60,
I'm now 40, there's 20 years. That's a long time.
Imagine from 20 to 40 what you could have achieved.
Well. That's assuming I had any money from 20
to 26. That's the problem, isn't it? It's like,
you got no money. But now that's the point. At
40, we should be in this stage of life where
we can see our value. Maybe our earnings are
apportionate to that. So let's get going. But
let's talk about that. So let me paint a profile
of two, you know, what is like a story of...
two cities, whatever. First, we have the woman
who is 44 because research shows us that that's
when most women's peak earnings are happening
at age 44. So we have the 44 year old CEO, high
earner. She's worked her butt off to get there.
She's, you know, killing it on every front. Then
we also have the 44 year old mom with let's,
this person is a mother, let's say with teenagers
now, hasn't been in the workforce since she had
the babies and is coming back in. So we have
Peak earner CEO person we have hasn't been in
the workforce in 10, 12 years person. What decisions
could either of them make to maximize what they
are doing with their money in their 40s? I think
it comes down to that value piece again. Understand
what your value is. If you're the CEO. What's
your value in the workplace? Are you being remunerated
based on your value? Are you negotiating hard
to make sure you're getting the most because
you know you're at your peak earnings? So is
this the time to do those hard negotiations?
Be like, you got me at my peak, pay it up. You've
got the tenure, you've got the experience, you've
got the industry connections. So really work
that and push that forward because every dollar
extra you earn. you're paying your future self.
And then for someone that's not working and potentially
thinking about reentering the workforce, upskill
yourself, educate yourself. And again, understand
the value that you are already. playing in the
household because there is a monetary value on
you. It's just we don't do a good enough job
to say, well, actually, that's what it is. Yeah.
So maybe you're feeling undervalued. Maybe you're
feeling like you're not contributing, but you
really are. And then that's that conversation
with the significant other in the household to
say, well, hang on a minute. I've been out of
work for five, 10 years. Where's my retirement?
And actually, where is the money in the household?
Yeah. Education, clarity. Yeah, it's so important.
It's just something you don't think about, do
you? Like you get to 40 and you think, oh, I'm
too old now. I need to just get on with it. But
I guess, you know, having the opportunity and
even the, you know, just to get out there and
re -educate yourself, re -skill yourself is such
a big thing to do. Yeah, which again, love Singapore
for this because they actually incentivize people
to do that here with the Skills Future program.
It's amazing. Yeah. So, OK, so I'm a woman in
my 40s and let's say I'm going to play woman
A for this one. I'm going to be the CEO. OK,
so I'm like, that means I'm the other one. You
know, it doesn't need to be so either way. And
I've negotiated myself up to like a banger salary.
And I know for a fact this is me at my peak.
OK, but I am going to exhaust myself at this
level. I think what's under that high earnings
umbrella, right, is this person who doesn't want
to do this forever. and is very conscious of
the fact of the trade -offs they're making to
be there. Is this a conventional client for you?
Is this someone that you see? Absolutely. Okay.
And how would you advise them to utilize their
peak wealth knowing, so you said, you know, it's
important to know what their next steps are,
knowing they want to be out of the workforce
by 54. So they're 44 peaking out, 54 they want
to be out. Yeah. What does that 10 years look
like? Head down. You know, you've got your head
down at work, but you're pushing your value,
but you're also understanding your finances and
you're saying, what have I got? Is it working
for me? Is it aligned with my values? And where's
it going to take me? And I find like when we're
in our 40s, we've collected assets. They might
be from different countries. What are they doing?
Are they working for me? So really getting a
handle on what you've got, but also being very
conscious around what could go wrong. If I am
running at 110 miles an hour, the wheels are
going to start falling off. So what am I doing
to try and mitigate that? I love this parallel
between investing and finance and actually just
your general well -being. Yeah. It's all the
same, isn't it? It's the most natural metaphor
that exists. Yeah. It's like you would never
think that those two are, you know, working.
parallel or, you know, in line with each other.
But actually, whatever applies in the investment
world and your financial space, it also implies
just in your general day to day life. Yes. The
budget thing, right? You said the first thing
that's most important for women to know is where
their money is going. When somebody comes to
see me and they want to lose weight or gain weight,
gain muscle mass, where are your calories going?
What are you spending? What are you intaking?
Right. And the refusal to participate in that
type of evaluation almost ensures you will not
be successful. And I would say, not being a financial
pro, that that must be the same for money. If
you refuse to look at it and kind of just let
fear guide your decisions. And again, I'm still
the CEO in this example. So I know I'm making
money, but I don't want to look at where it's
going. I just want to kind of sit on my pile.
You know, I think that there's a problem there.
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And there are about four to five different money
personalities. And we will fall into one of those.
What are they? Tell us about the person. Oh,
let's take the quiz, Alexis. It's really interesting.
And I would recommend anyone to go and work out
what your money personality is. Because until
you understand that, you will never get a handle
of your finances. And then work out what your
partners are. And you will communicate very differently.
So it's like love languages. Oh, yeah. But minor
language. Yeah. So one, for example, is an ostrich.
You put your head in the sand and that could
be the CEO. That's this gal. You think, well,
you are earning good money, but you don't know
where it's going. But you go, it will work itself
out. And then you get to that point where the
wheels have fallen off. Yeah, because the world
tells you as long as you make, now you're a millionaire,
so that must be enough. So just, yep, assume
it'll all work. Which is still not happy. How
did that happen? I should be happy. Yeah, and
you're still out in control. Yeah, exactly. And
then on the other side, there's someone that's
so cautious. You know, maybe. we know money um
habits are formed probably by age seven wow really
that's true yeah oh that means my twins are getting
there now oh wow so if i've grown up in a house
where we're watching every penny um we're seeing
the parents work really hard i naturally may
have this relationship with money where i'm not
going to spend anything yeah and therefore i
miss the opportunity And I live in fear that
I'm never going to have enough when actually
all it takes is for someone to say, you're doing
really well. You just need to read about it.
I wonder if that's me. I wonder if that's why
I can't spend on myself. But I can spend on other
people. So I don't know. That's a sign of love.
When you have children, your money then changes
and you're providing, especially for women. And
it's really important to understand. Men's relationship
with money is so different to women's relationship
with money. And we are providers. We're caregivers.
We never just think about money selfishly. We're
thinking about children. We're thinking about
mothers, friends. So when we do make a financial
decision, we're committed. And women are fantastic
investors once we get going. That makes total
sense. Can you talk to us? I'm still hung up
on this age seven money habits thing. Can you
talk to us about that? Like, do you know about
that research? Like how how what contributes
to children's money habits? Like what types of
things in the household you mentioned? If you
grew up in a penny pinching household, if you
envision, you know, if you see your parents working
a lot of hours, are there other factors that
contribute to the money mindset? Yes. How you
talk about money. So when you the children around,
how are you and your husband, how are you and
your friends talking about money? And what are
the children then picking up from that? So how
should you be talking about money? Because I
do, and I catch myself doing it, you know, sometimes
if my kids are, I don't know, wasting something,
I'll be like, you know, that cost a lot of money.
Or I'll say, your dad's working hard for this.
And now I'm thinking, oh shit, what am I saying
to my children? But how should you be talking
about money? Because obviously I don't want them
to take money for granted because then they're
just never going to appreciate it and never really
understand the value. But I also then don't want
to be like... scaring them off. I think it's
always being positive about money, but it's really
important that the kids understand where's the
money coming from. So when mum and dad leaves
at 7, 7 .30 and is not there for the wave off
at school time and pick up. There's a sacrifice
there that we're making. Have we talked to that,
you know, at a suitable age of the children?
Do they understand that? And let's give them
clarity. But also we're talking about money.
We're talking positively about money. And we're
also talking positively about what money is enabling
us to do. This holiday, this school, you know,
and it's trying to build that conscious decision
with children that there's always a choice with
money. And that brings us back to food and health
as well. It's like we're always talking about
how food gives us energy. Food allows us to play,
you know, stuff like that. And it's like that's
how they start to connect what food does for
us. And similarly, they should know what money
does for us because these are going to be vital
parts of their life for the rest of their lives.
Absolutely. Yeah, so smart. It's time now for
our favorite feature, Alexis, sponsored by the
Meat Club called Fuel Your 40s. And each week
we ask our guests how food kind of fuels their
life and their work and for you. Alexis, thinking
about our investment mindset here, thinking about
protein as an investment in our long term health.
What kind of meats or proteins in your life do
you feel kind of pays the biggest dividend? So
when I think about our family, we eat a lot of
chicken and steak. Oh, cool. Unanimous decision.
Yeah, I'm a big believer that you've got to get
the foundation right for myself, you know, because
I've got a busy job. I need to eat well. I need
to look after my health so then I could be the
best for my clients, but also for my family and
the children the same. What's your favorite cut
of steak? The way my husband cooks it on the
book. Big shout out, Alexis's husband, way to
cook. I love that. Well, you mentioned previously
about the ostrich profile, right? So head down,
don't like think about money. And then the one
that's like, you know, keep it close to the vest.
What are some other conventional money profiles,
particularly that you see with women? I feel
like we get FOMO. So we suddenly get to the 40s
and there's so much social media around where
we go, oh, I should be doing that. I haven't
got any crypto. I need to be doing that. Yes.
No joke. That is something that I think everyone's
talking about crypto. I'm like, OK, do I need
to be investing in crypto? Like, what does it
even mean? Yes. What are your thoughts on that?
All down to your risk profile. Yeah. You know,
and it keeps, it sounds very boring that I keep
coming back to it, but it's so true because if
you are this person about money, me going, I
think you should invest in crypto. Yeah. So it's,
it's all about for me understanding what. You
know, the client's money personality is relationship
with money and then aligning with what we're
doing. Do you make your clients do the quiz?
It's like a quick checklist. Did you run this
quiz before we decided what to do? I don't, but
there's questions because I've been doing this
for a long time. There's a lot of questions that
I will ask and it's never just about finance.
It's everything else. So I get to know the clients
really on a personal level and then whatever
I go away and recommend, it's completely aligned.
And are your clients conventionally coming in
alone or with partners or is it either one? It's
a mix. It's a mix. I deal with a lot of women.
So they come in independently more often than
not. Oh, I like that. Get it, girls. Yep. And
they're just understanding, taking stock of where
they are. Yeah. And then it's a question to say,
well, are we then merging finances? Are we keeping
them separate? And that's an open conversation.
Do you find that? Because I guess like in Singapore,
there's that traditional setup. Yeah, exactly.
Where the husband's the earner, the wife's been
the dependent. So, you know, like he seems to
be in control financially. In other parts of
the world, I guess, you know, you do have the
split accounts. I'm going to be honest, in our
house, it is one account. I manage it. My husband
just earns it. I'm like, it all goes into the
one pot. That's still how I work in my house,
even though we have a little different model
because my husband and I co -own a business.
So it's one pot because it's our business. So
do you find that there tends to be more one pot
type profiles that you're dealing with? Or are
you seeing that there is that sort of, you know,
the husband has his money, the wife has her money.
Maybe they, you know, have a separate bank account
just for, you know, the mortgage or the rent.
Daily shopping and stuff. I think before people
have come to Singapore, they were very independent
with money. And it might just be the mortgage
that you had pulled, but you had your own salary
accounts. But coming to Singapore, it's almost
forced people to pull finances and not to link
divorce rates with money. But there is a direct
current. You're talking to me. The hell I said,
like, it's too soon. No, but I came to Singapore.
In the exact thing that you just mentioned, shared
mortgage, previously split salaries. We came
to Singapore, put everything in one pot and it
was like the beginning of the end. Yeah, because
you go a match and then it's all down to money
personalities. It's like, hang on a minute, I'm
this and you're just being reckless with it.
This isn't working for me. And then that's when
a lot of the communication breaks down. From
your opinion and obviously your experience, is
there a cause for a divorce? about money matters
do you find that like hasn't I you know like
and you think of cheating and things like that
but then can money really be like the crux of
a second straw the brakes yeah I mean it's one
of the main drivers really because there'll be
resentment on either side there will be some
resentment if someone's working they may think
that they have all the power and control how
are they using that is then that turned into
some sort of money control you know all these
other things that i'm sure like the wife is working
and the husband's going out for brunch yeah yeah
and it's a real thing and it happens all the
time um so yeah it absolutely sparks conversations
that actually should have really happened when
you got together and again it comes if you've
got people coming together where one person has
come from growing up in a household where money
is always, you've been conscious about money
because there hasn't been a lot of it. And then
you meet someone that comes from abundance. Have
you actually spoken about how that fits together?
Wow. And then if you go on to have children together,
how is this going to work? Wow. Those are conversations
I think that. people really need to have, but
you don't, you don't think about it. You just
are not. No. And I don't know that you're even
aware in speaking of my own, like I wouldn't
know, I wouldn't say that I would have been able
to identify whether I was, you know, had this
particular mindset or whatever. We had a mega
sing on here a couple of seasons ago, talking
about money mindsets and examining your beliefs
behind money. I don't know that any of us do
that. No. I said to my husband, I said, we really
need to make sure that the boys, you know, understand
they're cool. values and you know their future
partners core values are in line with their core
values but actually you need to look at their
money mindset and make sure that their money
mindset is almost alive yeah it's as important
and they say that you know a good marriage is
great for financial stability and future and
there's a reason because of that yeah no you're
so right and again it's funny that Like you said,
moving to Singapore in the traditional expat
experience can kind of crack that wide open.
Do you find that that is unique to Singapore?
Do you find that that is something you see in
other contexts that you've worked as well? I
think Singapore just it just brings it to your
attention quicker because it's kind of like a
natural state that suddenly we've been forced
into. But actually, if you were just continuing
back in your home country, those cracks would
appear. They're down the long line, yeah. Yeah,
so I feel like they're always there. It's just,
are we seeing them? Well, let's talk about one
of the bigger cracks, debt. I think, you know,
we've talked about the CEO female top of her
earnings. We've talked about the mom coming back
to the workforce. How about the woman who arrives
in her 40s with crippling debt? May it be from
education, poor decisions previously, a divorce
potentially. You know, this is a reality for
women in their 40s. Are there ways that women
can start to either break down their debt so
some way they can start kind of attacking that,
but also lead a fulfilling life? I feel like
when you are in debt, it's like a prison. Yeah.
And you feel like there's no way out. Is there
a way? There is a way. There is a way. And this
is such a good topic to touch on because, you
know, there are women in their 40s that are carrying
debt and maybe it might be post -divorce. You
know, so many reasons, education, and it's really
trying to understand good or bad debt. And what
I mean by, let's talk about good debt, that is
hopefully on an appreciating asset. Okay, like
a mortgage. Yeah, a house. It's been an educated
decision. We've got clarity around the property,
business. I feel okay with that. Other debt is
what we perceive as bad debt, and that's your
credit cards, personal loans. Education, is it
a bad debt? Yeah. So where do we put education?
Say it's a good debt because you're, you know,
you're future -proofing yourself. But how are
we paying that off? And again, it all goes down
to the budget. You know, the $100 that you've
got here, how are you assigning $20 to the highest
rate to pay that down? Then you're doing this
other $20 here. That's a very simple example.
But let's get rid of the high. interest rate
debt first let's be smart can we refinance to
a lower interest rate but just you've got to
tackle it head on because the longer you leave
it compounding will work not in your favor yeah
that's the dave ramsey thing right is like you
know get your highest ones paid off first and
then you can snowball it snowball it down i don't
know if that's a thing that yeah i don't know
if that metaphor works but it's dave ramsey's
idea i'll credit him In terms of attacking debt,
so you just mentioned, so you want to pay the
highest interest first and kind of back down
from that. Is there a time where it might make
sense to put yourself in debt? And specifically,
I mean, like to purchase a home. Like, is that
always a positive trade -off, like you said,
to be in debt for an appreciating asset? Or is
there a time where maybe you wouldn't choose
that option? Every investment is different. So
when you look at property, you've got to be really
crystal clear on where you're investing. you
know, are you looking for the yield? So we're
going for high rent or are we saying this is
a capital growth strategy? And I think over the
years, people have just gone, I've done this
property because all my friends have done it.
My parents say that's the way to go. But you've
got to be really clear on what is it you're aiming
for? Because if you don't have that clarity,
someone is going to be left feeling underwhelmed
at the end of it because there is a tax drag.
on any property investing. And at the moment
with yields in certain places, does it make sense?
So if you're committing your lump sum payment
to there, plus you're paying interest on that,
have we actually netted it out and does it make
sense? And we're not saying it's bad. There's
absolutely property in a portfolio is great.
But are we really understanding the fundamentals
or are we going on recency bias? Oh, interesting.
Right, let's say someone's got 100 grand and
they really want to do something with it and
it's just sitting in the bank account. What would
be like your top three things that you would
say, right, this might be something based on
someone's risk profile that they could invest
in or should invest in? could I don't know it's
up to you how do you want to frame that I'd say
invest in yourself and what that means is invest
in your future self so what does your retirement
look like yeah and and we know if we're thinking
longer term you know is it CPF SRS superannuation
if in Australia UK pension what are you doing
and and to prepare for that and that naturally
will be some form of equity based investment.
So I would think about the timeframe, thinking
about what you're wanting your money to do. And
it's always going to be a collection of equities.
There will be some property in there because
are you thinking you're investing here because
that's going to be your future home. Do you recommend
investing in a country that you're not living
in? Yeah, that was going to be my next question.
Two questions. Can we double barrel this, which
I know is like the worst interview strategy?
Do you suggest investing in a country you're
not living in? So for many expats, that might
be their home country. Or what are your opinions
on investing in a unstable -y type of country?
So, for example, investing in Malaysia property.
Or Bali. Or Bali. Yep, Thailand. Yes, countries
that don't have a history of necessarily stability
for foreign investment. Yeah, I think we have
to be very careful about the tax jurisdictions.
So here in Singapore, very low tax. We are tax
residents here. If you're going to another country,
you're buying as a non -tax resident. What are
the implications upon entry? How is any income
generated going to be treated as a non -resident?
And when you go to sell, how's that gain going
to be treated in that country, but also when
you bring it back to wherever you are then? Because
you might end up having to pay tax here or in
the UK or yeah. Yeah. So if you look at the UK,
for example, they've changed over the last couple
of years, their capital gains model. So this
is not advice and I'm not getting into advice.
We can do a disclaimer after the show like this.
So you've got to understand that if at the time
of purchase, the capital gains allowance was
X amount. Do you know, do you now know at this
point in time, it's dwindled down to this amount?
So actually. going back to the rhyme and reason
of what you were doing, does it make sense? And
are you actually aware of it? Yeah. An inheritance
tax, you know, all these things. What are the
governments doing to affect that wealth that
you think you are growing? So there's this, I
know I'm going to completely butcher it, but
there's this guy who wrote a book called Die
With Nothing. What's your opinion on that as
in not saving, but using up your finances and
while you're still living, whether that's giving
it to your kids and doing all of that stuff.
He was on, I don't know if you listen to Peter
Atiyah, but he was on his show and Peter Atiyah
says he loves the book. Maybe I should read it.
Yeah, it's Die With Zero. And it's an amazing
book. Do you have it? Yeah. I mean, I listened
to the concept about it and I thought, actually,
it kind of makes sense. It'd be good to not have
to deal with giving your finances away to the
taxman afterwards. You know, like if your kids
need some money now, give it to them now. Or,
you know, like, what's your opinion on that?
If you have an opinion. I don't know the book.
think if you are earning money you are paying
tax yeah so if i'm not earning money i'm not
paying tax so i'm not sure how that plays out
but also a basic human need is shelter food security
so again if we're taking that strategy on how
are we feeling along the way So, yeah, very difficult
to answer. But I think if you're having children,
there's that natural want and need to pass money
on. And it's not about how much, but it's you
want that to kind of carry forward into generation.
So I like it. I think it feels really nice and
free and easy. But the reality, I don't know
what that looks like because rental. Rentals
are expensive. So how are we going to generate
the income to pay that? So we're going to be
paying tax anyway on the income. I don't know
how that. I mean, we're a little bit of a die
with zero family. I'll be honest with you. Yeah.
Yeah. So that's kind of like we're that is. where
we are kind of doing our financial planning and
it is scary but it is also it's interesting because
actually my husband you mentioned about talking
to your kids early yes tyler's already talking
to the kids about how they will receive money
from us in terms of it's not gonna be when we
pass on yeah you know it'll be actually like
in in the life that we are all living together
because i kind of say that to my parents i'm
like don't worry about us yes you know we're
all grown -ups now we've all got our own kids
you know we're getting on with our lives i want
you guys do yeah I want you guys to enjoy your
time. Like you've worked your whole life. Now
go and use that bloody money. Yeah, yeah. Do
you find that that tends to happen like the older
you get? So obviously like 60s, 70s. Are you
seeing that the children of... The parents, you
know, telling their parents, spend the money
on yourself. Don't worry about us. Or are parents
still thinking, no, I need to, you know, I need
to pass this on to my kids, my grandkids. Yeah,
I think there definitely is that conversation.
And when we think about our parents, potentially
grandparents, they're of a different generation.
Money was... harder yeah you know life was feels
harder post -war and in a lot of cases so I think
that money habit has stayed yeah but what's really
interesting now and what I find a lot of clients
deal with is what's called that sandwich generation
which you need to be 100 % across your parents
may have a lot of money have got assets but have
we spoken about long -term care and in that country
where they are yes because it's so expensive
and people are living longer so as much as we
want to say you know please enjoy your money
do we know actually if they do do that and use
it all are you financially okay to sustain your
parents Is that in your financial planning? Never
thought about that. It's another intersection
of health and money, but this one's a little
bit of a dark side, unfortunately. I know, and
I really don't mean to be negative. Yeah, I know,
but that is a huge reality. And for women, I
feel like it's the biggest stress point in the
40 to 55s because we are the sandwich. We're
the bit in the middle. We've got the parents
that we're worried about. They may be in a different
country. Financially, are we? providing for but
then we've got our kids that we're trying to
put through very stressful yeah so I think we've
got to be very careful with the language that
we're using and actually what does that mean
and again it all comes to education transparency
understanding the tax jurisdiction and you've
mentioned now a couple of blind spots so one
is not having a budget Right. So just not knowing
where your money's coming from. Another one might
be spending on things that you don't even realize.
Right. Like, you know, your money's just kind
of going here, there, everywhere. Another might
be not realizing, talking about with siblings,
internalizing how your parent care will happen.
You know, are there other blind spots that women
in their 40s should look out for that we might
not see coming? I think there's always your own
health, you know, at this age. things you know
feel like I feel like personally I'm going for
more checks than I ever have done which I'm very
fortunate about being in Singapore to get these
done and by great doctors but you know what does
that look like you know if if if you find something
what does your insurance look like you know then
if you don't have that foundation It doesn't
matter about the future you because all you're
focusing on is the here and now and your pyramid
comes crumbling down. So really focusing on your
health, focusing on exercise, fitness, you know,
your diet. What are you putting in your body?
Your relationship with money? Is it a stress
or actually is it a I can breathe? And these
really make such a difference. So do you recommend
making sure that you do have life insurance in
place just in case there is? an unforeseen event
absolutely because you we all have a value in
our household whether you're working or not you
have a value attached to you what is it do we
know what it is um and actually if you were to
be out of that household what would you like
to happen and how do you want your children to
be financially cared for and let's put a figure
around that as a minimum and then also but that's
for everyone else that's not for you so when
you think about yourself what about critical
illness cover and that's from your cancers to
your heart attacks are we covered for that because
we know that generally if we suffer a critical
illness we're going to survive it But we know
if we survive it, there's costs. Yes. And again,
not to be morbid, but this is the reality. Again,
this is being smart. If the reality feels jarring
to you, then maybe it's a sign you need to examine
it. Yeah, and I think we can't go through life
with our head in the sand to go, it's not going
to happen to me because it will or it will happen
to someone close to you. And it's how are you
prepared for that? Because that's the biggest
thing that's going to derail you. Yeah. There's
a saying I've heard a thousand times and it's
like, you can have a hundred problems, but once
you have a health problem, you have one problem.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, and then you
might say you have one problem and also a financial
problem. So now you got two real big problems
that you don't want to have. All right, Alexis.
So to lighten up the convo a little bit. So one
of the features we do here on the 40s Formula
is hot or hype. So basically, we're going to
ask you a few hot topics in finance and you let
us know whether it's hot and you think that's
definitely something that you take on as good
advice or hype, overblown, not something you
would recommend. All righty. And again, you can
justify your answers. We let that happen. All
righty. Property ownership as the key to long
-term wealth. Hot or hype? Hype stroke hot. Oh,
OK. That's not how the game is played. But proceed.
Tell us why. Because you've just got to be, you
know, you've got to be conscious where you're
buying. So in some areas, absolutely amazing.
Let's go for it. There's real growth potential.
But if I'm buying in an oversaturated, too talked
about market, that's hype. I've just bought into
someone else's profit. Yeah. Literally bought
in the hype with your own money. Yeah. All right.
Hotter hype. Side hustles as the path to financial
freedom. Hype. Because, and again, comes down
to your value, what you're looking to achieve.
But if you've got a passion for it and it's making
money, fantastic. If you've got a passion for
it and it's causing you stress and derailing
you, maybe there's something else that you could
be done. Okay. Hot or hype? Relying on. CPF,
retirement fund, government fund as your retirement
plan? Hype. But I love it. I love that you've
got CPF if you're PI. I love that you've got
SRS. But you've got to think more. Okay. Because
we know that we can only access at certain points
in our life. But what happens if you want more
flexibility? And what happens if we're not going
to be in Singapore? Yeah, good point. Yeah, yeah.
Last one. This is going to hurt me. I feel like
this is going to hurt. Okay. Hot or hype? cutting
back on all your little treats in order to secure
a richer future i think it's hype oh yay okay
because it's short term it's it's you know you're
thinking oh that's going to solve my problems
that's a bit if it's short term it's not going
to be there to stay. So it's not those small
habits that we can incorporate. So hype. So I
can drink my $4 .90 Starbucks coffee and knowing
that I can buy a bag of coffee at Marks and Spencer.
How is your coffee $4? I bought a flat white
this morning, $7 .50. Because you, I don't drink
that stuff. I drink coffee. Okay. I don't drink
espresso. All right. No, I'm just kidding. But
okay. Thank you for letting us live another day
on our small treats. All righty. Last question.
And this is something that we ask. every single
guest on The 40s Formula, but we'd love to hear
it from you in terms of your unique perspective.
What is The 40s Formula? What can women in their
40s do to truly thrive in this decade? So have
clarity, be consistent, and do it with confidence.
Ooh, three Cs. And you can incorporate that into
all parts of your life, but I think from today
we'll see that we need clarity around our money.
What's it doing for us? Are we enjoying it or
are we not? Is it holding us back? Are we doing
it consistently or is it a fad? And are we having
confidence doing it? Amazing. I love it. Simple
but profound. And I think something that women
really need to hear. Thank you so much for being
with us, Alexis. This has been, again, first
of all, educational. And secondly, kind of thought
provoking. I mean, I know I've started to rethink
some of the relationships that I have with my
money after talking to you. So thank you so much
for helping our listeners do the same. Thank
you very much for having me on. Thank you. Is
that, are you cool? Because that was obviously
ChatGPT's summary of your LinkedIn profile. Yeah,
yeah. So I was like, if there's anything that
they didn't sound representative yet, because
you know how sometimes they say wild shit. Where
it's like, you know, she's worked in East Bangladesh.
I didn't say that. That was out of my profile.
When I put yours in and it said, oh, a Pilates
instructor. I was like, I'm literally in the
opposite of that thing that you just said. But
anyway. It's just that over 20 years, I'm like,
yeah, but I'm not that old. Oh, no, I am. Oh,
yeah, maybe. I'm offended by that intro, but
it's not wrong.