coming up on the 40s formula since singapore
you know sex ed was called abstinence they will
show us stds blisters and picture of aborted
feeders and if you enjoyed it you're probably
a do you think that Women, especially in their
40s, are having sex for themselves or is it more
for someone else? I was introduced to this sex
toy. It gets you there in like three minutes.
Wow. If you haven't had the opportunity to experience
things, how would you know where you want to
go and how to get there? You'll be surprised
how many women have never looked at their vulva
before. When I actually showed them, they're
like, oh, do you mean this is how I look like?
Your husband is no longer connecting to you at
all. intellectual level, that emotional level,
the spiritual level, then what sex are we talking
about here? If your wife is stressed beyond her
limits because you don't pick up your end of
the deal, if you sit around like a big slob,
you can bet, bro, that she's not hopping into
bed. Angela Tan, a certified sexologist, intimacy
coach, and medical doctor who's helped hundreds
of women unlearn the good girl script and reconnect
with what they actually want inside and outside
of the bedroom. The 40s Formula. The 40s Formula.
The 40s Formula. Hosted by Jasmine Dillon, integrated
health strategist specializing in gut health,
hormones, and midlife well -being. And Amanda
Lim, director of Lift Clinic and a leading expert
in female strength and metabolism. Name one of
CNA's top podcasts and a finalist for best health
and wellness podcast. The 40s Formula is your
no fluff. Science Meets Real Life Guide to Thriving
in Your 40s. And today we're having that conversation,
the one so many of us have tiptoed around for
far too long. We're talking sex, shame, pleasure
and all the things we were never really taught,
especially now in our 40s when our bodies, minds
and relationships are shifting in ways that no
one prepared us for. Our guest today is Dr. Angela
Tan, a certified sexologist, intimacy coach,
and medical doctor who's helped hundreds of women
unlearn the good girl script and reconnect with
what they actually want inside and outside of
the bedroom. This episode isn't just about hormones
or libido. It's about power, identity, healing,
and rewriting the stories that we've been told
about sex. This is absolutely something every
woman needs to hear, whether you're in a long
-term relationship, figuring yourself out again,
or just starting to question the stories you've
been told about sex and intimacy. So don't forget
to subscribe, follow the show, and share this
episode with a friend, a sister, or maybe anyone
who needs to feel seen and heard and maybe a
little turned on. And we'll be right back after
this. Hi, Dr. Angela. It's so good to have you
here. We're so excited. Hi there. So my name
is Angela. So do I say hi to anyone here? You
just say it. It's totally up to you. So, Angela,
do you think that women, especially in their
40s, are having sex for themselves or is it more
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We'll drop it in the show notes or you can find
it on our Instagram. The Meat Club, where quality
meets convenience. Do you think that women, especially
in their 40s, are having sex for themselves or
is it more for someone else? In my personal opinion
and the experience I've had, I guess it's across
the range. So I have a group of women who like,
you know, what I'm done with waiting for things
to happen, right? I want to own my body. I want
to own my sexuality. And then this is how I want
to feel about myself, right? And then we have
another group of women who like, okay, so what
do I do about it? Like, you know, I don't have
the voice to speak up. Right. I'm not sure what
I want. Right. I'm always waiting for someone
to initiate. You know, if I initiate, I might
appear as being too needy, too desperate or even
being labelled as, you know, sluttish. So I'll
hold myself back there. Right. How can women
sort of speak up and initiate that conversation?
it's really hard to just tell people, hey, you
can do it, you can do it, you can do it, right?
It doesn't work that way. So unfortunately, you
know, the culture that we are in, the way that
we are being brought up a lot of times, makes
us feel that, you know, women is always playing
the supportive role. We can't be too domineering,
too demanding, because that's not what the characteristic
of a good woman is, right? So we can't just tell
people that, hey, you know like embrace yourself
embrace your body right ask for the sex that
you want okay it really takes a stepwise approach
to tell women hey you know what you can be yourself
you can be who you want to be and not putting
sex as right at the first thing you know like
i think about it in a way that i feel like women
who are gen z kind of have this thing this ability
to get out there and and and ask for what they
want and then you have the millennials who have
been brought up almost in a different era yeah
and you know like just understanding what we
want like how do we even begin to get down that
that road because if you haven't had the ability
or the opportunity to experience things how would
you know where you want to go and and how to
get there In terms of your sexual satisfaction.
Exactly. So I have worked with couples, you know,
who came in to help to revive their passion.
And then when I sit down with them and ask, so
what turns you on? And then I get this blank
look. Yeah. Right? Like, isn't it supposed like
you do your foreplay, you do your huffing and
kisses, your caresses, you strip and then...
And that's it. And that's it. Right? So when
I start, you know, probing and suggesting, then
you start to see the facial expressions. Sometimes
it's like that. Sometimes you get a shocked face
and sometimes you go like, what? What is that?
And sometimes a bit of a disgust or something
like that. So that's how we kind of like expose
the women that we work with to look at, you know,
hey, maybe there's something for you to explore.
Okay, maybe that's too much for you. Let's put
it aside. Right? But the moment they can, they
realize that, hey, you know, the sexual repertoire
is huge. And that's when they start thinking.
Right. So instead of just going to the same shop
over and over again and buying the same set of
clothes, now we have a buffet of clothes. Oh,
man. Now we're going back to clothes. You know
what I do? I will buy. I like one thing. I'm
going to buy in like three different colors.
But at least it's different colors. Right. A
little different. Where do you think these beliefs
actually come from? Is it a cultural thing? Is
it a societal thing? Is it just, I don't know,
is it a religious thing? Why do you think that
women are, I feel, especially the women in their
40s, because I think there is a bit of a shift
between sort of mindset, between sort of, you
know, old women and young women. Where is it
all coming from? I think it's everything, right?
You know, well, at least in Singapore, when we
went to school, you know, sex ed was called abstinence.
No, are you serious? Yeah, so they will show
us videos or photos of like STDs, right? The
infections with their bums, blisters and ulcers
and whatnot. Wow. And then there was once, you
know, we were even shown like picture of aborted
feeders. Right. Okay, I do know you guys have
the abortion video here. Wow. Do you know about
this? I did not know this. So even now, even
today, 2025, if you want to terminate a pregnancy,
you have to, as an adult, by the way, this is
not like something just for teens or whatever,
you have to go to the clinic and watch a video.
And you might be, this is the craziest part,
right? I think you can be in a room with other
people also terminating a pregnancy that day.
That part I'm not sure, so double check me on
that, Singapore. But I know for a fact you've
got to sit there and watch that video. And that
to me is crazy. And it sounds like the sex ed
is kind of that same experience. Yes. Those of
us in our 40s, you know, we grew up, you know,
with abstinence as the main thing on sex education.
Right. And then when we were first introduced
to puberty and sanitary pads, they divide the
class into girls and boys. I think they still
do that. They still do that. They definitely
still do that. So my kids are at a British school.
And they did separate the boys and the girls.
I mean, for maturity sake. My son is nine and
he's going through puberty education. And I don't
know how he would handle that in terms of being
in a class with other girls. But I loved it.
I just did a sex education class for an international
school. We have both the genders together. Interesting.
What age group? All the way. So from the year...
Eight and nine, so you have like nine, ten years
old. Okay, yeah. So I'll take your sign. Alright,
alright. Oh, year 8 and 9. Wouldn't that be...
No, that would be a bit older. That would be
13, 14. Then we also have the ones that are about
10 years old as well. We started from there.
So that would be year 5 and 6. Yeah. Right. I
thought it was amazing because, you know, they
were asking very brilliant questions. And unlike
the time I had where you were not allowed to
ask questions. We were too shy to ask questions
anyway. Give us some examples of the questions
you heard that you were like, huh. Right. So
I have, you know, this student in class that
asked me, What is condom made of? Oh, interesting.
That's a good question. It's a great question.
Right. I mean, I thought it was great, you know,
and then this other kid who has no idea what
porn is, wanted to know what exactly is porn
because, you know, when I said porn, right, the
rest of the class was giggling. Right. And then
there was this girl that, you know, asked, you
know, is the first time really painful? I thought
they were brilliant questions. These are excellent
questions. And it shows how comfortable they
are asking those questions. And these are questions
we never had a chance to ask. And to be fair,
I... You didn't even know. No, I didn't even
have sex education at school and I grew up in
the UK. And the reason was because it was one
day and that day I was sick. No, get out. And
so I missed it. So I had to... And I never think
fast hand. Well, our sex ed was not one day.
I don't remember how long. Let's say it was a
week. Maybe it was a month. My memory is fuzzy.
What I did not get from my sex education, though,
which then obviously, you know, later in life
was shocking. I did not understand that intercourse
was like insertion. Yeah. So I thought it was
a special hug. and so like when i found out that
like a body part goes in a body part my mind
like exploded i was like wait what like and that
like not to be you know but i mean hey we're
all it's an explicit podcast yeah like that that
the female is like the receiver one i was like
oh because like a special hug doesn't really
make it clear yeah no so like it was like you
know like something's gonna go inside me like
my that was And it was scary because in the drama
series that I used to watch as a kid, you know,
they would have this scene where, you know, a
newly married couple. right they will do their
thing and then the next morning the sheets will
have blood stains on oh yeah yeah they do the
super dramatization right right and that's what
in my head is in the first night of marriage
you're going to be bleeding oh so that's going
to be painful mysterious blood so you're like
where does it come from why is it there then
the next few scenes in the new episodes you have
this girl who's giving birth and screaming away
oh god yeah that was dramatized that too Not
sad, did not scream away. I did. So in our heads,
you know, growing up with all these things, it
was like, sex is painful. Giving birth is painful.
Right? It's going to be uncomfortable. You're
not going to enjoy it. You're not going to enjoy
it. And if you enjoyed it, you're probably a
slut. Right? Because that's where these shows,
you know, the girls go to clubbing and have lots
of fun. And they end up getting drunk and drug
and rape. Yeah. Right? In those shows. Yeah.
Right? And then when... we talk about it in school,
it's always harsh, harsh. Yeah. Right? And then
you, for boys in boys school, it was really interesting.
What I heard was, some of them were very entrepreneurial
and then they copied the tapes and sell it in
school. Oh, like the porn tapes? This is obviously
in our day, like, like the youth, when we were
youth. Yeah. Oh, wow. I mean, Props to them.
Yeah. Yeah, so this is the sex education that
we had, right? And then the teachers weren't
going to answer you anything. Parents were like,
oh, you can wait until you're an adult, then
you will know about it. Yeah. Right? And young
kids shouldn't know. So, like, with all this
in our head, we start to question, what is really
sex? Is it sex for people who are wild? Who are,
like, bad? Who are delinquents? Right? And then
if you're a good girl, right, therefore, you
must be very prim and proper. You cannot express
your desire. Right. And you cannot tell people
that you enjoyed sex. And so then if we look
at women who now like fast forward to, you know,
women who are top of their career and confident
and and, you know, know what they want in their
life. How does that reflect in the bedroom? Do
you find that then these are the women who are
holding back because, you know, everything is
is. and, you know, dumb the right way. Yeah,
I do that. I see that a lot, right? Because,
you know, when you have climbed the success ladder
and you build this perfect image of who you are,
right? And then if you're going to allow something
to taint your image, that's not going to work.
No. You're going to be like so particular, like,
okay, I need to keep myself premium proper, right?
Even if I have sex, it's because, you know, it's
an obligation because this is how marriages work,
right? And because, you know, I want to conceive,
I'm going to have kids. And it's never about
I'm letting myself loose to enjoy myself. So
I did a women's program over two days. It was
during COVID time, so it was online. We did a
very simple exercise where we got women to appreciate
their bodies. So we started with the hands, something
very generic. And then as you move on to the
genitals and the breasts, and then people start
getting very emotional about it. Because they
realised that they haven't really noticed this
body part of theirs. It has always been just
biological. They never had a relationship with
this body part. They never truly embraced who
they are as a full woman. It was always very
functional. So breasts were for feeding. Yes.
For your husband to grow up. Right? Yes. Wow.
So what would you say then to women who like
that? might not have ever explored their bodies
before and might feel like you know what it's
too late now I I've just you know gone my whole
life satisfying my husband you know doing this
as an obligation like you said because I'm married
is there any way they can come back from that
and actually make it so it's about them and they
can enjoy that experience as well Of course,
totally, right? I mean, that's why we're having
this conversation, right? It's going to be hard
at the start. So I would say, you know, you're
going to start to reconnect with your body, right?
Don't start with the parts that you're going
to have the most resistance to, right? So if
the genitals are just too much, don't have to
go there first, right? So sometimes I do a guided
mirror exercise with my clients where we just
simply sit in front of the mirror. Like, are
you nude? Not yet. Okay. Not yet. I was like,
I think that's awesome. You're just like sitting
there with like your blazer and your dress and
she's just like straight nude. But we sit in
front of the mirror. Yeah, we get there, right?
Oh, so you do get there. You do get there. I
mean, that will be their personal homework. Yeah.
Okay. So lesson one. Yeah. But I do that with
my clients who have painful intercourse and that's
when I need to do an internal examination. I
actually do it with the mirror. So I show them,
this is like the anatomy. And then you'd be surprised
how many women have never looked at their vulva
before. And it was the first time when I actually
showed them, they're like, oh, you mean this
is how I look like? Yeah. So it's pretty mind
-blowing. I know when you start on this journey
of helping women find themselves, then you realize
that there were so many gets. So the first thing
that I usually do is to get people to sit in
front of the mirror, look at just the body parts
that are exposed. How do you feel about it? Is
it positive? Is it negative? Is it neutral? Why,
why, why? What's the story behind each body part?
What about this body part? Can you appreciate?
What has this body part done for you? So by getting
them to go through a gratitude process, the awareness
process, where they learned how to vocalize,
verbalize, and gradually... touching the body
parts to show love and connection. These are
the little steps that I do with my clients such
that they get more connected with their bodies
and themselves. And then as they get more comfortable,
they can go to the ones that are more sensitive.
You mentioned painful sex. That's something that
happens, I guess, for women in their 40s, especially
during that sort of transitional phase of perimenopause.
Now, what would you... advise obviously you're
a medical doctor as well now what would you advise
a woman who is struggling with painful sex whether
that is related to perimenopause or maybe something
completely different you know how do you approach
that topic so essentially you have to look at
you know is it happening every time is there
a trigger is it just purely dryness so for some
women it's just purely dryness and they were
like okay let's just do make sure you have your
lube There are daily moisturisers, daily vagina
gel stick that's available that you can do to
add in hyaluronic acid to the insides. No end
to what hyaluronic acid can do. To the face,
for the down below. I mean, I have it in my collagen.
I have it in right now. Then I was like, dang,
okay. No, no, no. It's like my collagen has hyaluronic
acid and vitamin C. It's like, you know. Yes,
it's the perfect formula that you need. Yeah,
yeah. Also, sometimes if it's just pure dryness,
you know, that will do the trick, right? But
sometimes it's more than that, right? Why else
could it be? Because I have worked with women
who have birth traumas. Oh, yeah, girl. Right.
So there's a group that, you know, we might miss
because they have had kids 20 years ago and everything
seems to be fine, but they have been enduring
it. Yeah. It's just that when perimenopausal
comes up, it becomes even more apparent. Yeah.
And then I have women with undiagnosed endometriosis
that, you know, seems to get worse at a certain
point in time and they're worsened by the menopausal
symptoms as well and then it comes in. Right.
So a lot of times, there can be other things
that we've been missing out. Right. And of course,
you know, there's a relationship component. Right.
And then sometimes, you know, I'm not sure whether,
you know, the women here notice like the longer
you're married to somebody, the more flaws you
seem to be seeing from the person. Well, I'm
coming up to 17 years. Right. All this resentment
builds up and we never talked about it because
it's always so much easier to sit under the carpet
and say, look, that's a small thing. Let me let
it go. Let me let it go. But it doesn't, right?
And over time, the intimacy and the connection
with a partner actually dwindles, right? And
then that can account for the reduce of arousal,
right? And that can cause painful sex as well.
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I was just reading. I subscribed to this feminist
newsletter. I'm probably going to murder her
name. so I apologize if this author hears it.
Her name is Zaun Villanes, like Dawn with a Z.
And amazing, it's feminist motherhood. And she
was talking about, she wrote an open letter to
heterosexual men why your wife doesn't want to
have sex with you. Wow. And it's like, in case
you're wondering, you know, it's not necessarily,
I mean, of course, it's hormonal factors, et
cetera. Yeah, we all got that. But like, it's
like, if you don't do shit around the house.
If your wife is stressed beyond her limits because
you don't pick up your end of the deal, if you
sit around like a big slob when she's out there
busting her ass in the gym taking care of herself,
you can bet, bro, that she's not hopping into
bed with you voluntarily. You know, like if she's
doing it because she has to or feels like she
has to, you know, in the marital bond, and she
probably doesn't love it. Like if you don't uphold
your end of the self -care deal, do not be surprised
when your wife doesn't love having sex with you.
And I think it was a... super powerful. I'll
forward this to you. It's so good. Cause she,
she, she wrote it first as a blog post and then
she reframed it as a letter so that you could
like literally show it to a heterosexual man
and be like, Hey, just in case you don't see
the writing on the wall, bro. Um, but the point
is with all of that, I think you're absolutely
right. I think a lot of women are having those
symptoms of, um, you know, painful intercourse,
lack of desire, you know, and, and they're looking
for every medical reason in the book. When at
the end of the day, it could be just like that
dude's not making it feel real sexy in a relationship.
Right. Because, you know, I have couples and
there's this couple that left me a huge impression.
Okay. And so I came in, you know, we had a few
sessions. Things was improving. But then the
husband didn't feel that it was up to mark because
he was still not having his sex. Yeah. So the
outcome was not, it was still no sex. Right.
And then he got really upset and said, look,
you know, things were working well in the first
10 years of our marriage. I bring in the bacon,
you take care of the kids. And now you're telling
me that my EQ is low and I need to work on my
EQ so that we have sex. Oh. Right. What's this
about? Because their whole relationship was built
a different way. Yes. And I guess from his perspective,
he's like, well, you know, I've always been the
breadwinner. And, you know, things are the same,
but things are not the same. Yeah. Yeah. And
breadwinning qualifies me for sex. Please, here's
money. Now I get sex. But I think men do do that,
honestly. And I don't want to call out men. Probably
women. I don't know any women that do that. But
let's just say like men, you know, I think a
lot of times they're like, I take care of this
family, therefore I get sex. And it's like that
is, what do they call it, a false analogy or
a false parallel or whatever? It's like that
doesn't entitle you to sex in this relationship.
Yeah, because they have this idea that, you know,
if I am loving the family by providing, then
you're going to love me back by providing this.
thing called sex yes girl and then it confuses
um the way that we view marriage relationship
intimacy sex right if it's sex it's just an action
fine it's a transaction but if you're looking
at intimacy and sex, that's a whole different
ballgame together. How do you build that connection?
There's emotional base, there's spiritual base,
right? And then, you know, like smart men, so
there's an intellectual connection as well. Yeah,
off air, we were talking about how Jasmine loves
a smart dork. Yeah, I do. So if your husband
is no longer connecting to you at intellectual
level, at emotional level, at a spiritual level,
then what sex are we talking about here? Yeah,
because then it's just the physical act and there's
no actual, I guess, yeah, like you said, relationship,
connection, like the deeper meaning behind it,
which is what I guess sex is all about. It's
not just the physical, active being together.
Did that guy ever get sex? Yeah, I want to know
about this guy. Yeah, so this guy is like pissed
that he has to have EQ now. He's pissed that
he has to like, you know, be a full man. And
then the interesting part was then the wife retired.
I mean, I feel a bit bad because I think I've
been empowering her too much in the sessions
to speak up. No, girl, you let her rip. Right?
So she actually said, you know what? With the
money that you have right now, There'll be a
line of girls queuing for you. Oh, shit. So she
dropped the whole just like, hey, you want something
different? Go get it. And then he shut up. Wow.
So then, oh, I got to know what happened. Can
you share what, like... Were there more sessions?
Right. Yeah, I mean, there were more sessions.
So it was like them easing out, you know, who
they are as individuals, you know, how are they
coming together as a couple and then working
on their differences. Yeah. Right. So it's still
a lot of work in progress because, you know,
people don't come in like every week for sessions.
They come in every one month, two months, whenever
they feel like they have the time. So that is
a problem when we put relationship as a non -parody
because money -making is always a priority. You
know, whenever there's a money -making cause,
you see people sign up for it. Yeah. Right? Whenever
there's a relationship -building cause, well,
you kind of see that the numbers that comes in
are really different. Interesting. Right? So
I think in our very productive -driven society
that we live in, right, we always put our productivity
as a priority. How we run the household, how
we run the family, how we run the relationship.
And that's affected the way that we view intimacy.
We had a previous guest just come in talking
about therapy. And she said that she just has
a standing appointment with her therapist every
two weeks. Wow. And she said it's just like the
gym. I mean, hopefully she goes to the gym more
frequently than every two weeks. But meaning
like, it's not like you go to the gym only when
you need to be healthy. It's like, no, you go
to the gym as an ongoing practice of self -care.
That's how she sees her therapy. Amazing. Do
you recommend that couples do something like
that? I mean, I will. They don't have to pay
a therapist per se, but they need to be concerned.
connecting right there are plenty of scenario
cards online that you can find right questions
that you if you are a bad at questioning you
know asking open -ended questions just go chat
GPT ask for 10 yeah chat GPT therapy I'm sure
like persons like yourself hate that shit where
it's like oh yeah that'll fix it but it does
help right if you have problems for regular maintenance
and you don't want to pay 500 bucks for a therapist
fine I get it right but are you doing something
for yourself Right? I mean, you don't have to
go to the personal trainer every day. Yeah. In
fact, I agree with that. Yeah, I agree. You need
to learn to lift weights on your own. Like, you
got to learn how to squat, bro. Exactly. Like,
you cannot pay $150 every time you got to squat.
Yes. You got to learn it. Yes. So, the thing
is, you know, there's no ownership in this aspect.
You know, they expect relationships to work.
Yeah. Right? Just by... big in the same household
yeah fair and it's not going to be that way you
know like you have to work at it you need to
have the eq you need to have the communication
you need there needs to be Give and take in both
situations. I have to say my husband is way better
than me at this. Not at the EQ part, no. I'm
a PhD EQ, okay? No, but at taking time for just
us, because we have three, I should definitely
preface this, we have three little kids at home.
So five, three, and one. So we have a whole house
of kids all the time. And we also live with my
in -laws, which is like, hey, love it, but also
definitely a sex killer. It's like grandma and
grandpa around the house. Anywho, he's so good
about being like, it has been too, not about
sex necessarily, but it's been too long since
we have been alone as two humans. I love your
date. Your date. Our date cards. That's him though.
That's him. So we have the, we also have these
date cards where it's like you scratch off and
whatever the card says, you got to do it. And
we like really do do it. Like we were just like,
so our one right now is horseback riding. Our
one right now is horseback riding. You have to
understand my husband and I are from not horseback
riding backgrounds. We had a patient yesterday
be like, Like, just play polo. And I was like,
bless her. Like, that we could just get on horses
and play polo. Have I told you about my experience?
On a horse? No, please. So, okay. So it was our
honeymoon. And I'm that person who's like, right,
we've got to do all of this stuff. You know,
like, we're going to, you know, whatever it is.
Jet ski and all that. Yes. My husband is not.
He's like, I just want to chill. I want to read
a book. You know, I don't want to. But I made
him do horseback riding. He got the younger horse.
I got the ex race. I don't know what they're
called. You know what the race of horses called?
Stallions? I don't know. No, I'm just making
shit up. But my horse didn't like the fact that
the other horse kept overtaking him. So my horse
would then speed up. Fucking hell. My first time
on a horse, I shut myself. Not literally. But
fuck it. Oh, my God. I've not been on a horse
and we got married 17 years ago since. OK, well,
so I will report back once we get on horses.
Oh, yeah. But he's so good about like we it's
been enough time where we've been like just living
in the chaos. We have to get out and be a couple
again because I would just go forever. I would
just go forever in the chaos. Honestly, I just
you know, I'm so instrumental day to day. do
the things do the bedtime like he's like we have
to get out and be human beings again yeah I know
so yeah but like really truly and I think somebody
in the couple has to be that guy Because if it
was up to me, we would never have done anything
in our first six years. I have couples who come
in the same situation. So one person is always
that guy. And the other person appears to be
not doing the couple work. And then the conflicts
arise. Why is it always me holding on to the
relationship? This relationship is us. Where
are you? So I am that guy. I am the one who does
all the stuff. You are Tyler. We've talked about
this so many times and I'm on it. But I also
know that my husband is not going to be the one
who organizes things and does things. And now
I have actually realized, well, do you know what?
That's him. This is me. And actually, if I want
these things done, I will do it. He's never going
to say no. I just have to, you know, do it. And
then I can do it my way. As an example, when
he came to our wedding, I'm really thankful that
he didn't want to get involved because it meant
I got to do everything that I wanted for my wedding.
And he didn't say no. He was like. Here you go.
You do what you want. It's your wedding. It's
our marriage. I love that because I've seen couples
who argue over, no, this is what I want. This
is what I want. So I've just realized most of
everything that happens in our relationship is
what I want. Yeah. I think happy wife, happy
life is like a real thing, I think. The happy
wife, happy life thing. Yes, it works that way.
But then again, a lot of times, I guess, man
has a problem figuring it out. What actually
makes my wife happy? Yes. Oh, yeah. I have to
be very specific and say what I like, what I
want. Because otherwise, he just wouldn't. Yeah.
But you're right. I think that's a big deal.
Yeah, it is. And then, you know, the couples
I'm seeing in my room, you know, both of them
are struggling to tell each other what they want.
Is that a communication issue though? It's more
than communication. It's also like understanding
yourself. And then after that, being able to
say, hey, this is what I really want without
feeling embarrassed about it. Because, you know,
in the Asian culture, things are very different.
You wait to be approved, right? You don't fight
for approval. Interesting. Yeah. So a lot of
times we will quietly do our work. right and
hopefully the teacher spot us i will notice because
we don't want to we don't want to be the one
seen shouting out look at me look at me yes but
you know i want you to acknowledge that i am
doing what's correct so yeah i can totally see
that yeah have you ever had a couple where you
get them to the point where they actually kind
of peel back the onion and they both say what
they really want sexually and then and then that
is not the same thing or it's not a compatible
thing it happens but sometimes you know if things
are planted well they go to see oh this is what
you want i didn't realize why didn't you tell
me right so for example you know most guys like
blowjobs yeah for example let me pull one example
dudes like blowjobs you are not wrong right well
the husband was happily receiving and the wife
was happily giving but then it was during the
session that we recognized that Actually, you
know, blowjob was not his number one. But the
wife always thought it was the number one because
it's the number one for most guys. Interesting,
yeah. Right? So what he enjoyed more was actually
giving her oral sex. Wow. Oh, okay. Right. Yes.
That's why he's marriage material. Right? And
then on the other hand, the wife was struggling
because, you know, in the whole Asian culture,
down there, it's always dirty. Right? And if
I'm not washed, if I'm not cleaned, don't go
near me. Right? And then every time, you know,
there has to be a ritual that, you know, she
cleans herself properly before sex happens. Oh,
that's interesting. See, I didn't, this is new
to me. Is this an Indian thing too? Yes. it is
so like you have to go through like like it's
it basically you got to be stepping out of the
shower yes in that immediate moment and then
then that would be when that stuff could occur
right and then you know with kiss and everything
that's not going to happen every time no because
life right and then she ends up rejecting him
Oh, like, I haven't showered. Yeah, we can just,
you know, do the usual, you know, don't go down
there, you know, that kind of thing. And then,
you know, this unknowingly was causing a lot
of mismatch in the relationship. And then the
sexual satisfaction went down, you know, work
piles up, the kids... chores piles up you know
and then things dwindle so when we actually start
going back like you know what happened did something
happen somewhere before that made you feel that
sex is no longer that pleasurable right and then
it came down to this point like you know the
husband said actually you know thinking back
i felt rejected because you know i was very happy
to offer but you know she's always saying no
oh wow that's so interesting right that is interesting
like i yeah the hygiene norms thing and then
it becomes like you know it's like that's like
you said it's basically like two ships passing
in the night that actually want the same thing
but like you know she's backing down because
she thinks this one thing and he's you know thinking
she's enjoying this other thing yeah so it's
not that they are not communicating but they
have no awareness of where there was a non -communication
because it's happened it happened so subtly right
and then there was a lot of assumptions like
I want the best for my partner. It's not that
I don't want anything for myself, but we're always
putting our partners on a priority. But we miss
like, what exactly is a priority? Talking about
priorities now, I think when it comes to women,
again, in their 40s, you know, either work is
more important or kids are more important. How
do you make your relationship more important?
Oh, that's a tough one. It is a tough one. It's
a tough one. Right. So a lot of times because,
you know, when we get married, if there's certificate,
we have this assumption that, you know, till
death do us part. Right. So no matter what I
do or don't do, we're only going to part when
we die. Yeah. Yeah. I do remind Tyler that all
the time. It's like you're stuck with me till
you die. Figure it out. So a lot of times because
of this confirmation that we have, people stop
putting in extra effort to keep and maintain
the relationship. Right? And then it's only when
we start to sit down and look like, hey, you
know, how are you feeling in the last 10 years?
In the last 15 years? Or the last 20 years? How
do you feel about how things are like for you?
And then as they have that moment to reflect,
they go like, oh, right. I actually feel alone.
Right? You know, there's this very busy household.
There's two of us. There's the kids. There's
the helper. You know, there's so much activities.
We go... overseas you know every two three months
there's always a family outing but yeah i'm actually
alone down there right and and this is this moment
that people start realizing that they haven't
been connecting So you kind of need to get them
to see that they really want and desire that
connection. It's not just about, hey, you can
do it, come on, let me give you 10 strategies
of how to improve your relationship and then
I'm quite sure you can get it going. So a lot
of times it's to help them uncover what's really
going on inside them. What are they really struggling
with and what is it that they want in a relationship
before people actually put in effort to make
relationships work. What are like the top three
struggles that you see with women in their 40s?
Like we are assuming that, I'm assuming I should
say, I think maybe together, is work stuff, kids
stuff, libido. The one thing that kind of push
women into that direction is like, we need to
be a super mom, a super boss at work, a super
manager, right? And a super everything. Because
in this era, we are taught that, you know, women
cannot stand up to be equals as men. So we need
to fight for every opportunity to be that equal,
right? If we're not doing well at home, you're
not doing well at work, we can't be that equal.
So that desire for us to show up constantly in
all areas of your life drives us crazy. It's
exhausting, isn't it? Yeah. Think about it. If
you've got to be number one in every aspect of
your life, fucking hell. Yeah, it's too much
pressure. And I think, you know, men just don't
have it. And I don't want to make this whole
episode about men and women. But honestly, if
a man's not holding up his end of the deal at
home, no one's like, oh, you're a crap dad. Obviously,
if you're not showing up for your kids at all.
But you know what I mean? For women, it's like
the second you do something for yourself, it's
like, and where are her kids? And who's taking
care of the kids, sweetheart? Men don't get those
stupid questions. So it's very evident. Don't
mind me sharing here. Recently was Mother's Day
and Father's Day. Right, so my kid is in her
final year of kindergarten. K2. Yeah, K2, right.
So the school is really nice. You know, they
organize mommy's only event for mommies. And
then they organize a daddy's event only for daddies
to come around for Father's Day. And guess what?
Right, on Mother's Day, you know, 90 % of the
mommies showed up. Oh, did the dads not show?
And then on Father's Day... we have like, you
know, 40 % of the mommies show up instead of
the daddies. Are you serious? Right? Because
it's like, it's so easy for a man to say, hey,
you know, I'm traveling for work. I'm going to
miss this. Right? But for a mom to say, hey,
I need to work. You know, I got to miss this
event for my kid. It's too much for us to handle.
We just want to be there for all these major
milestones of our kids. Yeah, it's so interesting.
Because our school does the same thing. And you
know what I thought was actually really cute
and kind of feminist -y? Was at the Mother's
Day event, one of the moms, so this one mom,
her name also happens to be Amanda, which is
why I know her. She has four kids. The youngest
one is the one in my kids' class. And so she
ain't got time for squat, right? She works full
-time, four kids. So she actually sent the eldest
daughter. as like the proxy and I thought that
was so sweet and she did the little presentation
you know like about like it was just really cute
it was really cute so it's like but I hear what
you're saying like dad's not showing and it's
like oh yeah yeah it's like oh it's legit it's
fine yeah if Aman doesn't show it's like where
was she yeah what's what's more important to
her you know yeah so we carry that not just as
a society but as an individual yeah So when we
have to be that superwoman in everything, the
libido is going to drop. And then amazingly,
I was introduced recently to this sex toy. It
gets you there in like three minutes. Wow. Can
you share the name of this sex toy? I'll even
put it in the show notes. Can you put it in the
show notes? Yeah, honestly, if you don't mind.
It's a womanizer. It's a third generation one.
So they have the 3D wave and it really simulates
the clitoris really well. I think I haven't.
I've heard of it. I was recently at a menopause
event. They gave us a womanizer toy. Right. It
may be this one. I'm embarrassed to admit I haven't
opened the box yet. Oh, I'm so lame. But that's
interesting. Okay, womanizer. Okay, sponsor us.
So what I realized is that, you know, yes, women
have access to all this. right we can get a quick
fix if you want to but deep down you know who
we are as women who are we right what do we really
want to actually enjoy this womanhood right and
then as we age you know and well you know the
body's going to change and how do we embrace
the change how do we deal with you know saggy
boobs right how do we deal with like you know,
the dryness, how we deal with, you know, my hair
turning white, you know, like, like things like
that. So, so if all these transitions, I think
a big thing that women of 40s need to start recognising
is like, who are we underneath the shell? Yeah.
Grey blending, push -up bras, hyaluronic acid.
Yeah, hyaluronic acid, definite vote. So obviously,
you've mentioned the womanizer and you said it'll
get you there in three minutes. But I actually
think having an orgasm and actually having sex
with your partner is a very different experience
because it's not just about the orgasm. It's
about that connection between the two people.
So yes, I mean, you know, getting there in three
minutes, amazing. But actually, I think the whole
point of a relationship is that it should be
more than just that. Yes. It's not something
that happens only in the bedroom. It has happened
on a daily basis. Right? I mean, if you're having,
you know, Coke, fries and burger every day. Yeah.
Oh, that's going to suck your libido. Right?
And then one day you proclaim that I'm going
to be healthy and then you do a great balance
meal for the day, your body still won't be in
a shape. Correct. That's such a great analogy.
Right? So in relationship, it has to be something
that happens every day. So one of the things
that I always propose to couples is flirt every
day. When was the last time you actually flirt
with your partner? I mean, my partner, he sends
me thirst traps all the time. Like he always
sends me gym selfies and like it was a six pack
all out. So like I would say he flirts with me
quite a bit. That crazy guy. But no, but you're
right, though. Like the day to day you lose it
sometimes. Yeah. Like you absolutely it just
gets buried beneath everything. And yeah, like
we had we talked to somebody about sex in I think
season one of this podcast. And I said something
like when sex falls down your to do list. And
she was like, does it have to be on a to -do
list? You know, like, is it even that instrumental
a task? Like, meaning like, can't it be more
organic and in the thread of your relationship
versus like tick, tick, tick on the list? So
when couples struggle with their sex life, you
know, one of the things that I do prescribe is
schedule it. Yeah. Right. As much as it doesn't
sound sexy, but what I'm saying scheduling is
not scheduling the intercourse. I'm saying scheduling
the time to connect. Right. It don't have to
be intercourse. It can just be something sensational,
right? More sexually driven, but not intercourse.
When was the last time you actually put in effort
to make it work? If your calendar is filled with
multiple events and meetings, are you saying
that your couple life don't even deserve a space
on the calendar? So you talked about prescribing,
which obviously means that you're a doctor. How
did you go from medical doctor, obviously in
an Asian society, to being... A sexologist. How
did that transition happen? I would say it was
really a lot of turns to the event. So there
was this period of time in my career that I was
working in a GP clinic. And then this 80 -year
-old man came and asked me for Viagra. Wow. Oh,
hey. Again, get a grandpa. That was like... all
right, you know, what am I supposed to do with
it? Like, you know, I can go through all the
questions and make sure that he's physically
well and he's not going to like, you know, pass
out. Yeah, have a heart attack on him. Like things.
I mean, it's happened. So that was the only thing
in my head that I was concerned about. And then
there was me feeling awkward and everything.
So on hindsight, I should have asked things like,
oh, you know, who's your sex partner or partners?
You know, is it safe for you? Right, in case
you're in trouble, you know, who can call for
help? You know, that, And then do you have any
protection and things like that? So there were
so many more questions that I could have asked,
but I didn't because I wasn't educated enough.
Right? The aspect. Because with a master's in
medicine, it doesn't get you far in that area.
Yeah. Right? And then I had this couple who had
just delivered their baby. So the guy in the
head said, oh, you know, things are great. You
can resume sex. And they came to me and asked
me, how do we start? Oh. And I'm like, don't
you just start? Yeah. So there are a lot of questions.
Then, you know, I have menopausal women coming
to me, telling me about things. I have people
who are just coming for a simple flu and then
suddenly we're talking about low libido and miscarriages.
Wow. I'm like, this is so uncharted territory.
You know, it's either I'm going to figure it
out, you know, or we're going to lose all these
patients who are asking for help. Yeah. So that
was kind of like... the reason why I started
to go more into it. And then as I went more into
it, I realized there were more and more gaps.
And then I was like, okay, if there's not enough
people providing this service, can I do something
about it? Can I change things? And that was how
I started my journey. Wow. And did that 80 -year
-old guy get his Viagra? Yeah. Yeah, he did.
And he's still with us today. I hope he is. I
really hope he is. For someone who... you know
has struggled with getting back onto having sex
say after a while of not having sex what steps
could they take to sort of get back out there
and you know and this could be for say let's
say someone's been in a long -term relationship
and then in their 40s maybe they went through
a divorce so you know they they were in a relationship
they probably didn't have sex during that you
know for a while they got divorced and now there's
a lady and she's ready to mingle yeah She's single
and ready to mingle. How can she do that? Okay,
I would say, first and foremost, be comfortable
with who you are. Yeah. Right? Because divorce
does leave emotional baggage. Has that been handled?
Right? Because once the state is ready, the physical
body follows after. If the internal state is
still in a flustering state, it's still in a
self -dub state, like, even if we put ourselves
out there, we're not going to look very attractive.
In fact, we're going to be looking very confused.
right uncertain and that's not very attractive
right so the moment you know a woman is clear
like oh this is what i want i'm ready for it
the body follows and how to warm up the body
that's the next big question yeah right um i
would suggest you know if to try masturbation
you know getting a sense of how their body feels
like being touched. So remember I talked about
the appreciation exercise earlier? Yeah. So that
can also be brought in in this context. Okay.
Right. And then if they're concerned about, you
know, penetration, what we do is we do dilator
therapy, right, where we actually have a gel
stick to teach women. how they can actually start
to receive penetrative sex again. Gel stick?
Yeah, so... What's that like? What is that? I
don't have a picture, but you know, feel free
to put a picture in the video. Right? I'll just
insert one. Gel stick? I mean, I love that because
it's a product that is conical in shape. It's
made of gel, like a jelly, but the firmer ones.
Okay. Right? And it has hydrolyzed acid inside
it, vitamin C inside it. So maybe we all need
a gel stick. And with the gel stick, because
it's conical, it doesn't feel like you're stuffing
something huge right inside right away. Okay,
so it starts off with a narrow diameter, and
then as it goes deeper, Right. Then the diameter
increases. So when you couple that with your
physical therapy sessions, you know, it helps
you be confident. Or like, oh, actually, I'm
still working. So is this something that, say,
a perimenopausal woman could use if she's, you
know, having symptoms of, let's say, you know,
low libido or dryness? Is that or atrophy? Atrophy
happens as well, doesn't it? Yes. So this product
was for women who has dryness. Right. And sometimes
I add estrogen cream as well. to improve the
whole outcome, right? So it really depends on
what the woman needs. And then if they have other
symptoms, you know, we might need to start on
hormonal replacement therapy, depending, right?
But if it's just very localized, topical solutions
work really good in these cases. How about testosterone?
Testosterone is a little bit on the gray at this
point in time, right? So in the Singapore guidelines.
Yeah, that was kind of my question. Yeah. Is
that I know women in America, they're like getting
after it because they got on T. but not as widely
prescribed here. Yeah. And you have, it's like
you can't get the, oh God, what's that term?
That pharmacy thing. Compounding. Yeah, compounded.
You can't get compounded tea here, right? It
has to be the gel. It has to be FDA approved.
Correct. The gel. Yeah. So the gel, all right.
I mean, it does really have to be very personalized.
And then you just speak to your physician about
it. Of course, you know. you might want to find
a physician who is either someone who's more
open about such things and then you can explore
the risks and the benefits. Yeah, so happen to
know a guy. But what I will say is, have you
observed women getting on testosterone and improving
their libido outcomes? I don't have that much
of data for myself. Yeah, on that one. Well,
we have had so much amazing insight from you
today. I feel like, you know, women can take
a lot away from this conversation, whether it
comes to the emotional side of things, the medical
side of things. But there is one more question
we would like to ask. And it is a question we
ask all of our guests. And that is, what's your
40s formula? How can women in their 40s really
thrive, I guess, sexually to make sure that they
are empowered and confident in this era and during
this decade? Don't be afraid to take your space.
You work for it. You earned it. You deserve it.
So take this piece. Yeah. Damn right. Get what
you want. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Angela.
It has been wonderful having you here. We really
appreciate this conversation. Thank you. Thank
you for having me. Thank you so much. yeah and
he looks like a mix between jason statham and
paul walker yes like extremely gorgeous paul
walker was my number oh my god he was my ideal
like in terms of looks he was because see paul
walker's too babyish for me but then that edge
yeah the little edge that chris williams had
okay see what you mean shut up just like are
we doing a podcast today or not as much yeah
yeah mics are warm mics are hot