WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.799 Coming up on The 40s Formula. So I was told I 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:07.700 had the wrong color growing up. And I remember 00:00:07.700 --> 00:00:09.619 listening to it once and I started crying. And 00:00:09.619 --> 00:00:13.640 I was like, Jesus Christ, this is a lot. I'm 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:17.519 about to be divorced. I just made a wrong decision 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.679 out of fear of being alone. You talk a lot about 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:23.699 feeling unseen. And that resonates with so many 00:00:23.699 --> 00:00:26.960 of our listeners. Uma Tana Balasingam, leadership 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:30.550 coach, founder of Raw With Uma, and one of LinkedIn's 00:00:30.550 --> 00:00:33.210 top voices in Asia for her honest, courageous 00:00:33.210 --> 00:00:36.789 takes on womanhood, career, and the money magic 00:00:36.789 --> 00:00:40.929 in between. The 40s Formula. The 40s Formula. 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:45.469 The 40s Formula. Hosted by Jasmine Dillon, integrated 00:00:45.469 --> 00:00:48.090 health strategist specializing in gut health, 00:00:48.210 --> 00:00:50.869 hormones, and midlife well -being. And Amanda 00:00:50.869 --> 00:00:54.030 Lim, director of Lift Clinic and a leading expert 00:00:54.030 --> 00:00:56.969 in female strength and metabolism. Name one of 00:00:56.969 --> 00:01:00.630 CNA's top podcasts. and a finalist for Best Health 00:01:00.630 --> 00:01:03.469 and Wellness Podcast. The 40s Formula is your 00:01:03.469 --> 00:01:06.950 no -fluff, science meets real -life guide to 00:01:06.950 --> 00:01:12.090 thriving in your 40s. Welcome back to The 40s 00:01:12.090 --> 00:01:14.790 Formula, the podcast that blends science, soul, 00:01:14.950 --> 00:01:17.290 and a little bit of sass to help you thrive in 00:01:17.290 --> 00:01:19.489 your 40s and beyond. Now, if you've ever found 00:01:19.489 --> 00:01:21.689 yourself looking around your life thinking, I've 00:01:21.689 --> 00:01:24.170 achieved so much, but why do I still feel like 00:01:24.170 --> 00:01:26.849 something's missing? This episode is for you. 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.540 Today, we're going deep into identity, purpose 00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:33.719 and the power of raw storytelling with a guest 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:36.780 who knows exactly what it means to reinvent herself. 00:01:37.019 --> 00:01:40.140 And in doing so, make space for hundreds of women 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:42.900 to do the same. And if you love what we're doing 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:45.640 here, make sure to subscribe or follow the 40s 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:47.959 Formula. It helps us to keep bringing you real 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:50.719 soul nourishing conversations. We'll be right 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.040 back after a word from our sponsors. Stay with 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:56.140 us. Alright, before we dive into today's episode, 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:58.079 let's talk about something that makes our lives 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.799 way easier. And tastier, because let's be honest, 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:03.319 between work, workouts, and you know, life, we 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.299 don't exactly have time to wrestle the trolleys 00:02:05.299 --> 00:02:07.579 at the supermarket. Which is why we've been with 00:02:07.579 --> 00:02:09.699 The Meat Club since the beginning of the 40s 00:02:09.699 --> 00:02:11.919 formula. Yep, they've had our backs since episode 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:14.840 one, and tasty dinners on our plates too. With 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:17.180 The Meat Club? You skip the supermarket chaos 00:02:17.180 --> 00:02:19.639 and get premium nutritious proteins delivered 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.080 to your door on your schedule. It's a subscription 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:24.439 that actually simplifies life. 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Uh -uh -uh. I think it's all about 00:02:57.229 --> 00:02:59.389 the chicken thighs. Oh my gosh, chicken thighs. 00:02:59.490 --> 00:03:01.150 I don't know if I could get one down myself, 00:03:01.250 --> 00:03:04.370 but I do know that this mince makes a mean burger. 00:03:04.629 --> 00:03:06.689 Who wants burgers when you can have a grass -fed 00:03:06.689 --> 00:03:09.710 beef eye fillet steak? Okay, that is amazing. 00:03:09.810 --> 00:03:12.069 But with that steak, I would definitely be serving 00:03:12.069 --> 00:03:15.330 this delicious broccoli and spicing it up with 00:03:15.330 --> 00:03:17.590 these chilies. Okay, you've definitely won there. 00:03:17.930 --> 00:03:23.889 I have got some coriander. Some cherry tomatoes. 00:03:24.069 --> 00:03:27.310 I mean, check out the color on those. And for 00:03:27.310 --> 00:03:30.349 dessert, strawberries. We also got some fruit 00:03:30.349 --> 00:03:32.729 for the kids, which they will love. 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All right. So let's dive right 00:04:07.219 --> 00:04:09.039 in, Uma. We are really, really happy to have 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:10.960 you here. Thank you for making time for us. Great 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:14.580 to be here. So you talk a lot about feeling unseen. 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:17.180 And I think that resonates with so many of our 00:04:17.180 --> 00:04:19.220 listeners. And especially when you talk about 00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:21.959 it as a woman of color, as a woman from this 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:24.980 part of the world, as a woman, right? There are 00:04:24.980 --> 00:04:26.459 so many listeners that are nodding along with 00:04:26.459 --> 00:04:30.259 that. And how do you help women find their visibility? 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:36.300 So I was told I had the wrong color growing up. 00:04:36.420 --> 00:04:40.540 Oh, my God. I've heard the thing. Yes. My mother 00:04:40.540 --> 00:04:44.100 bought. This fair and lovely cream from India. 00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:45.540 I knew you were going to say fair and lovely. 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:49.399 Oh, my God. And she made me use it every day. 00:04:49.459 --> 00:04:52.959 She was fairer skinned than me. And I was considered 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:57.000 to be dark. And so every day as I put on that 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:01.399 cream, I'm reminded I'm the wrong color. And 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:05.800 in my second job, when I was working in IBM Malaysia, 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:09.410 I took a trip to the U .S., my first trip. to 00:05:09.410 --> 00:05:12.829 the United States and suddenly white men were 00:05:12.829 --> 00:05:14.709 like, oh my gosh, like your skin is beautiful. 00:05:15.129 --> 00:05:19.050 And that was the first experience to unlearn, 00:05:19.069 --> 00:05:23.589 like, wait a minute, like this narrative and 00:05:23.589 --> 00:05:25.990 this message that I've been telling myself and 00:05:25.990 --> 00:05:28.810 that has been told to me, is it all wrong? And 00:05:28.810 --> 00:05:32.610 particularly white men, because I was flipping 00:05:32.610 --> 00:05:35.310 business magazines at the age of nine and you 00:05:35.310 --> 00:05:39.610 associate power with white men. So. And that 00:05:39.610 --> 00:05:43.050 was the turning point for me. So I think that 00:05:43.050 --> 00:05:45.990 a lot of us are hidden and there's so many things 00:05:45.990 --> 00:05:50.910 that we have to unlearn. And it's a very hard 00:05:50.910 --> 00:05:53.949 journey, I believe, depending on what narratives 00:05:53.949 --> 00:05:56.490 you've been told and then the stories that you 00:05:56.490 --> 00:06:00.370 tell yourself. And learning to unlearn that has 00:06:00.370 --> 00:06:04.709 been a lifetime of a journey for me so far. I 00:06:04.709 --> 00:06:08.279 am still unlearning quite a few things. But I 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:12.519 believe that a lot of us are hidden. And that's 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:14.279 why I created Hidden Talent to Visible Leader 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:18.800 as a program. And I think my biggest lesson is 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.319 that it's a muscle to build to become visible. 00:06:22.819 --> 00:06:28.100 And it is deeply uncomfortable. And you have 00:06:28.100 --> 00:06:32.759 to fight against, or at least I've had to. All 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:35.160 these things that come to your head about people 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:36.660 might think you're just so full of yourself. 00:06:37.669 --> 00:06:40.009 And that's interesting. I do feel like, you know, 00:06:40.009 --> 00:06:41.910 you're talking about your first visit to the 00:06:41.910 --> 00:06:43.449 U .S., right? And these white men being like, 00:06:43.569 --> 00:06:45.509 oh, my God, you're gorgeous, right? And I think 00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:47.529 that that's something that people of color in 00:06:47.529 --> 00:06:49.389 this part of the world visiting, you know, the 00:06:49.389 --> 00:06:51.230 U .S. might experience as well. Like, this is 00:06:51.230 --> 00:06:53.629 a different, an entirely different, you know, 00:06:53.629 --> 00:06:55.250 thing. And obviously that comes along with things 00:06:55.250 --> 00:06:58.449 like, you know, exotification, all of that. I 00:06:58.449 --> 00:07:00.089 was just about to say, people thought you were 00:07:00.089 --> 00:07:03.069 exotic. Yes, exactly. It's not exactly a clean 00:07:03.069 --> 00:07:06.629 -cut positive. But the point is, it takes unlearning. 00:07:07.209 --> 00:07:09.629 It takes being out of your regular environment 00:07:09.629 --> 00:07:13.829 to have that. And I think you doing that at a 00:07:13.829 --> 00:07:15.329 young age is probably very powerful. How old 00:07:15.329 --> 00:07:20.209 were you when you went? I was 23. What a perfect 00:07:20.209 --> 00:07:23.189 time. Yes. What a perfect time when you're still 00:07:23.189 --> 00:07:25.949 very much negotiating that identity. Also, then 00:07:25.949 --> 00:07:29.009 two years later, I took part in a beauty pageant 00:07:29.009 --> 00:07:31.850 in Malaysia. just for the fun of it because the 00:07:31.850 --> 00:07:36.350 cutoff age was 25. i better get in so i picked 00:07:36.350 --> 00:07:39.490 my best friend from union i was like you know 00:07:39.490 --> 00:07:41.649 like just for laughs let's just do it for laughs 00:07:41.649 --> 00:07:44.569 yeah uh and we laughed our way all through the 00:07:44.569 --> 00:07:47.589 finals however the most important thing was that 00:07:47.589 --> 00:07:50.810 they gave us all these workshops about how to 00:07:50.810 --> 00:07:55.290 write your cv And, you know, like for Indian 00:07:55.290 --> 00:07:57.569 women, we're hairy. So they thought it's how 00:07:57.569 --> 00:08:01.850 to wax. Nice. In the preparation for the pageant? 00:08:01.889 --> 00:08:04.550 Yeah, they took us to a wax parlor. Yeah, like 00:08:04.550 --> 00:08:06.990 how to walk straight, you know, how to dress 00:08:06.990 --> 00:08:10.170 for work. I only wore pants for the first 10 00:08:10.170 --> 00:08:14.790 years of my career in tech. And so I was sitting 00:08:14.790 --> 00:08:17.589 in those rooms wondering, oh, my gosh, like, 00:08:17.649 --> 00:08:19.589 did I have to enter a beauty pageant to learn 00:08:19.589 --> 00:08:21.970 all this? And what about all the other women 00:08:21.970 --> 00:08:23.889 who are like me, who will never get to enter 00:08:23.889 --> 00:08:28.569 these rooms? Yeah. And again, you know, the feminist 00:08:28.569 --> 00:08:30.610 in me is like, great that I had to take a beauty 00:08:30.610 --> 00:08:32.370 pageant to get there. You know, but again, at 00:08:32.370 --> 00:08:35.070 the same time, wonderful that it did go deeper 00:08:35.070 --> 00:08:36.710 than Skin Deep, right? That there was actually 00:08:36.710 --> 00:08:38.909 some life skills that you got out of that. Yeah. 00:08:39.070 --> 00:08:42.129 So nowadays, you're one of these top creators 00:08:42.129 --> 00:08:43.889 on LinkedIn, right? You're one of these women 00:08:43.889 --> 00:08:45.850 that is kind of, you know, a known storyteller, 00:08:45.870 --> 00:08:49.090 especially out of this region as well. It's so 00:08:49.090 --> 00:08:51.389 colorful and alive and authentic when you go 00:08:51.389 --> 00:08:53.409 to your page. I encourage everyone listening 00:08:53.409 --> 00:08:57.309 to go to Uma's LinkedIn and just see the vibe 00:08:57.309 --> 00:08:59.509 is so different. It's not like a staunch business, 00:08:59.610 --> 00:09:02.169 but I'm not IBM Malaysia. I mean, you're not 00:09:02.169 --> 00:09:04.389 IBM Malaysia anymore, but you don't get that 00:09:04.389 --> 00:09:07.710 vibe at all. You get this beautiful kind of tapestry 00:09:07.710 --> 00:09:10.629 of information and color and beauty. It's wonderful. 00:09:12.509 --> 00:09:15.850 do you help women who are so uncomfortable bringing 00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:19.149 themselves to social media to authentically present 00:09:19.149 --> 00:09:22.690 themselves like you do yeah well firstly This 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:26.470 is not the version that was there many years 00:09:26.470 --> 00:09:30.870 ago. This is not UMA 1 .0. No, I'm 47 now. It's 00:09:30.870 --> 00:09:33.169 the month of June. So I used to be in software. 00:09:33.210 --> 00:09:38.649 So I always say I'm version 47. I like it. That's 00:09:38.649 --> 00:09:42.009 amazing. Yeah. What's the date today? So at the 00:09:42.009 --> 00:09:46.710 last numbers. So what you see today on LinkedIn. 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:51.039 is the uncaged version of Uma. The no -shits 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:54.899 -given Uma, right? Yes, the I don't give a... 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:59.480 You can say it. We are an explicit podcast. I 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:02.120 don't give a fuck, really, about what other people 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:06.919 think anymore. And I had a decent enough following 00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:10.740 because I had a very big corporate title and 00:10:10.740 --> 00:10:13.440 I was the co -founder of Lean in Singapore, which 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:17.370 is a community of over 7 ,000 now. Wow. And then 00:10:17.370 --> 00:10:21.409 I tripled my followership after I started writing 00:10:21.409 --> 00:10:26.009 this uncaged version of me. So I would say like 00:10:26.009 --> 00:10:29.710 a lot of times people come to me and say, I really 00:10:29.710 --> 00:10:31.830 want to write on LinkedIn or whatever social 00:10:31.830 --> 00:10:35.110 platforms that you're on. And the first question 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:36.789 you should ask yourself is where is your audience 00:10:36.789 --> 00:10:40.830 hanging out? And that's the main platform. You 00:10:40.830 --> 00:10:43.090 don't have to be on every platform if you're 00:10:43.090 --> 00:10:46.600 just starting out. And for me, professionals 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:49.639 are on LinkedIn today. So that's my main platform. 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:53.419 Now, most people ask this question. I want to 00:10:53.419 --> 00:10:55.480 get my voice out there, but then I'm so afraid 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:57.860 of what people would think. And then I ask them, 00:10:57.899 --> 00:11:01.899 who are these people? And what do you think they 00:11:01.899 --> 00:11:03.940 would say? Well, they're going to say that I'm 00:11:03.940 --> 00:11:09.480 so full of myself or that I am cocky or that 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:13.759 if I tell a really... I had this woman in India 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.899 who, you know, grew up in like a third year city. 00:11:17.700 --> 00:11:22.600 And, you know, Apple having Apple was like luxury. 00:11:22.899 --> 00:11:26.220 Right. And so she didn't want people to judge 00:11:26.220 --> 00:11:29.279 that story. So I said, well, what's the worst 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:32.179 thing that's going to happen if you do put out 00:11:32.179 --> 00:11:35.889 your story out there? And, you know. That's the 00:11:35.889 --> 00:11:37.789 question you should keep asking yourself to peel 00:11:37.789 --> 00:11:39.230 the onion. What's the worst thing that's going 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:41.210 to happen? Well, they're going to say, OK, if 00:11:41.210 --> 00:11:42.690 that happens, what's the worst thing that's going 00:11:42.690 --> 00:11:45.750 to happen? OK. And then if that happens. Right. 00:11:45.870 --> 00:11:49.149 And then the last bit is if all these people 00:11:49.149 --> 00:11:52.509 are going to judge the true sense of you that 00:11:52.509 --> 00:11:54.470 you're putting out there, do you really want 00:11:54.470 --> 00:11:58.450 them in your world? Right. That's it. And I say 00:11:58.450 --> 00:12:02.730 that if you are very nervous to hit post, I think 00:12:02.730 --> 00:12:05.870 that's a really good sign. Because that's honesty 00:12:05.870 --> 00:12:08.690 about to go out to the world. Yeah. And I think 00:12:08.690 --> 00:12:10.929 all of us who create content in any context, 00:12:11.149 --> 00:12:13.269 we always have that moment of reservation. Like, 00:12:13.309 --> 00:12:15.649 is it too, for me, at least I'll share with you 00:12:15.649 --> 00:12:17.870 mine, is like, is it too much? You know, am I 00:12:17.870 --> 00:12:19.850 too out there? Am I too much in people's face? 00:12:20.049 --> 00:12:22.649 And at the same time, it's like, but I don't 00:12:22.649 --> 00:12:24.779 need to worry about the haters. I need to worry 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:26.960 about my audience. You know you made it when 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:30.019 you got haters. Y 'all has got haters. You get 00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:31.840 pregnant and lift a barbell, you got haters immediately. 00:12:32.059 --> 00:12:33.980 I promise you that. You got people coming at 00:12:33.980 --> 00:12:36.539 you. But yeah, it's like that's not who it's 00:12:36.539 --> 00:12:40.679 for. So what's that old saying? Lions don't lose 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:43.080 sleep over the opinions of sheep. It's like who 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:46.139 cares if the sheep are mewing over what you say? 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:48.059 The lions are going to be like, hell yeah, girl. 00:12:51.370 --> 00:12:54.330 I mean, do you think there's this, I guess, fine 00:12:54.330 --> 00:12:58.809 line between being confident and being a bitch 00:12:58.809 --> 00:13:02.269 or being a dickhead, you know? Because I feel 00:13:02.269 --> 00:13:07.450 like there is sometimes like this unbalance, 00:13:07.509 --> 00:13:10.129 you know, like you're walking a tightrope, right? 00:13:10.429 --> 00:13:13.529 As a woman. Yeah, especially because I remember 00:13:13.529 --> 00:13:17.350 when I first got a job outside of university. 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:20.639 all of us can sound terrible saying this but 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.559 all of the female bosses i had yeah we're just 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:26.399 oh i just i just did not like them yeah whereas 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:29.799 the male bosses felt fine and i just i didn't 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:31.860 know i think i just had this picture in my head 00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:35.480 like oh women are bitches sorry sorry women um 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.019 yeah but you know like the men they they just 00:13:38.019 --> 00:13:39.559 i don't know come across differently do women 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:43.809 have to be that way in order to Get there? Oh 00:13:43.809 --> 00:13:47.210 my gosh, how much time have you got? So firstly, 00:13:47.330 --> 00:13:49.269 let's talk about the tightrope, which is one 00:13:49.269 --> 00:13:52.029 of the four workplace biases. Too masculine, 00:13:52.169 --> 00:13:55.549 too feminine. Too masculine is, you know, you 00:13:55.549 --> 00:13:58.409 make decisions, you're confident, you're ambitious, 00:13:58.570 --> 00:14:01.570 all male -advantaging terms, right? Too feminine 00:14:01.570 --> 00:14:04.889 is you are in a meeting and you have an idea 00:14:04.889 --> 00:14:09.710 and you're like, excuse me, I think maybe, you 00:14:09.710 --> 00:14:13.539 know, too feminine. Both ends of the spectrum, 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:17.980 you get penalized. So I've learned to do what 00:14:17.980 --> 00:14:21.139 I call the gender judo, which is 80 % of the 00:14:21.139 --> 00:14:24.519 time I'm going to show up feminine so that 20 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:27.360 % of the time if I need to exercise masculine 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.940 traits, I'm not going to get penalized for it. 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:34.860 And I love that story about how you saw the female 00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:37.340 leaders versus the male leaders because actually 00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:41.070 as women become more successful, I believe we 00:14:41.070 --> 00:14:44.490 do have to choose between liked or respected. 00:14:45.070 --> 00:14:47.850 And as men get more successful, they are both 00:14:47.850 --> 00:14:53.190 liked and respected. It's so unfair. Yes. And 00:14:53.190 --> 00:14:56.230 there's a study that proves this from Stanford. 00:14:56.629 --> 00:14:59.909 You know, Howard and Heidi, right? Real life 00:14:59.909 --> 00:15:03.690 character. And one piece of paper has Howard, 00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:06.679 one piece of paper has Heidi. And the people 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:08.840 who had Heidi said, oh, I don't know if I want 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.299 to work for her. She seems very bossy. You know, 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.840 exactly the same words on two pieces of paper. 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:18.159 Right. So I think as women ourselves, we need 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:23.639 to just check in on whether we are also having 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:26.639 this bias on other women. We definitely do. I 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.539 mean, I've certainly had a lot of women say I 00:15:29.539 --> 00:15:33.480 am bossy and, you know, just just to whatever. 00:15:35.469 --> 00:15:39.690 So, yeah, it's a tightrope. And I think if you 00:15:39.690 --> 00:15:42.649 want to progress in the workplace and in male 00:15:42.649 --> 00:15:45.690 -dominated industry, what I've seen to work best 00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:49.250 is to meet people where they are. And because 00:15:49.250 --> 00:15:51.950 my only other choice was to wait for the world 00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:53.909 to change. That's not going to happen, is it? 00:15:53.950 --> 00:15:56.110 Not anytime soon. Yeah, not in our lifetimes 00:15:56.110 --> 00:15:58.789 necessarily. So if I see Amanda there, it's like, 00:15:58.889 --> 00:16:00.629 okay, Amanda, I'm going to come to you, right? 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:04.139 You are American. You are, you know, with everything 00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:06.159 that you bring. I'm going to come to you no matter 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:09.259 what you think about me. And then once you learn 00:16:09.259 --> 00:16:11.700 to trust me and like me, you're going to walk 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:16.360 towards me. And yes, it is mentally exhausting. 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:22.539 But I don't know any other way because otherwise, 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:25.559 you know, you just sit there and go. I'm the 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.860 victim, right? terrible that I can't remember 00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:30.559 the title of the book, but a really good friend 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.240 of mine, Dr. Kate Mason, just wrote a book about 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.759 leveraging likability. to become more powerful 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:39.600 in your career. And that, you know, using kind 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:41.899 of women's innate, what's been seen as a fault 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:45.460 as people pleasers is not necessarily, you know, 00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:47.659 obviously people pleasing is generally something 00:16:47.659 --> 00:16:49.519 that you want to get over, but meaning use the 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:51.539 likability piece that you've learned from that 00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:55.220 people pleasing and apply it as a strength. And 00:16:55.220 --> 00:16:57.080 I think that, you know, that's kind of what you're 00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:58.480 describing here, right? It's like, you know, 00:16:58.539 --> 00:17:01.419 come, you know, use, use your general, you're 00:17:01.419 --> 00:17:03.440 so likable. It's like, you know, like use that 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:05.339 likability to get in the door. doors that you 00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:07.960 need yeah and then take them by the reins girl 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.640 i think that's the feminine superpowers yeah 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.259 you know we are emotionally intelligent more 00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:17.940 aware right we have no qualms about wearing our 00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:20.960 hearts on our sleeves so actually people connect 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:24.720 with us much easier so we should absolutely be 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.539 using that to our advantage yeah and i think 00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:30.779 you know women we suffer from a lot of different 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:33.779 kind of um Self -imposed narratives, what you 00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:37.039 had brought up earlier with your skin color being 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.400 told it was a certain way. So then you kind of 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:41.799 highlighted that chapter that it must be a problem 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:43.880 and then realizing that you can rewrite that 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.359 narrative. Women in their 40s who are so deeply 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.140 ingrained in some of these narratives, they didn't 00:17:50.140 --> 00:17:51.599 have the opportunity to go to the U .S. when 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:53.619 they were 23 and be told how beautiful they were. 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:58.220 When you see women in our age group deeply set 00:17:58.220 --> 00:18:01.160 in narratives that do not serve them. What's 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.839 the first step out? I think the first step is 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:10.940 really asking yourself if you are living to the 00:18:10.940 --> 00:18:15.240 expectations of your full self or to the expectations 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.880 of others. I am questioning everything right 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:28.359 now in my life, including marriage. I'm about 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:33.460 to be divorced. It's a very loving divorce. But 00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:37.859 if I question myself on, well, why did I agree 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:40.700 to get married? And I actually got married much 00:18:40.700 --> 00:18:46.200 later in life, in my 40s. Oh, wow. Okay. If I'm 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:48.140 honest with myself, and I went to therapy last 00:18:48.140 --> 00:18:51.720 year, I did it out of fear, out of fear of being 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:56.990 alone. Out of fear of, oh, my gosh. I don't want 00:18:56.990 --> 00:18:59.630 kids, which is a whole other conversation because 00:18:59.630 --> 00:19:02.150 women get judged for that too. Very much so. 00:19:03.369 --> 00:19:11.890 But I just made a wrong decision. And we both 00:19:11.890 --> 00:19:14.109 paid the price for it. We both have responsibility 00:19:14.109 --> 00:19:16.630 towards why the relationship didn't work. But 00:19:16.630 --> 00:19:22.309 I'll just speak for myself. I just went with 00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:25.359 whatever narratives were out there. Because I 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:27.980 don't know otherwise. So now I'm trying to think 00:19:27.980 --> 00:19:31.759 like, OK, if I built a new planet and there was 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:35.019 like no expectations, like all these generations 00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:38.359 before me didn't exist. Like, what do I actually 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:42.980 want? And I think all of us, especially women, 00:19:43.140 --> 00:19:47.119 know deep inside if the multidimensional aspects 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:50.700 of us is actually showing up or not, because 00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:54.799 it will come through little clues like. You might 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.859 be surrounded by the people who love you the 00:19:57.859 --> 00:20:00.500 most in the world, but there is something else. 00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:03.480 Something keeps knocking. Your soul, I believe, 00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:07.059 keeps knocking to say, something's missing. Or 00:20:07.059 --> 00:20:09.059 you're at work and you just got promoted and 00:20:09.059 --> 00:20:11.640 you're being celebrated. And then your soul's 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:16.339 knocking and saying, is this it? So do you have 00:20:16.339 --> 00:20:18.880 the space in your life to even listen to your 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:21.240 soul knocking? Maybe that's the step before. 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.940 Since day one, Guzmany Gomez has been on a mission 00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:27.279 to make fast food actually fabulous. Because 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:29.599 let's be real, why should fast food mean fake 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.460 food? 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That's fast food that moms 00:21:07.059 --> 00:21:10.460 can actually say yes to. Find GYG at 22 locations 00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:12.819 across Singapore. Basically, they're everywhere 00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:15.720 you need them. And number 23 opens this December. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.579 So what are you waiting for? Download the GYG 00:21:18.579 --> 00:21:20.819 app to get the freshest, drool -worthy deals 00:21:20.819 --> 00:21:23.039 and make your Sundays taste a whole lot better. 00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:26.109 I find that... What you just said has really 00:21:26.109 --> 00:21:29.910 sort of made me think about how sometimes I feel 00:21:29.910 --> 00:21:32.789 like I've got expectations on my kids and how 00:21:32.789 --> 00:21:35.849 I want them to do certain things. And there's 00:21:35.849 --> 00:21:38.269 this song, I don't know if you know it, by Linkin 00:21:38.269 --> 00:21:41.450 Park. It's called Numb. Basically, let me be 00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:43.109 who I want to be. I can't remember the exact 00:21:43.109 --> 00:21:45.049 words right now, but I don't want to basically 00:21:45.049 --> 00:21:47.089 walk in your footsteps. And it sounds like the 00:21:47.089 --> 00:21:49.529 guy's talking to his dad or his parent. And I 00:21:49.529 --> 00:21:51.250 remember listening to it once and I started crying 00:21:51.250 --> 00:21:53.690 because I was like... Fuck, I don't want my kid 00:21:53.690 --> 00:21:56.809 to go through that. But then as a mom, I can't 00:21:56.809 --> 00:21:59.450 help myself. You know, I'm constantly have these 00:21:59.450 --> 00:22:01.289 expectations because I feel like you're my child. 00:22:01.369 --> 00:22:04.309 You know, maybe you can do better. But then am 00:22:04.309 --> 00:22:06.109 I putting too much pressure on him? It's like 00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:08.210 a, you know, it's this whole expectation. And 00:22:08.210 --> 00:22:10.069 then that's one side of things. And then the 00:22:10.069 --> 00:22:12.009 expectation you put on yourself is like a whole 00:22:12.009 --> 00:22:14.950 different story, you know? Not to make you feel 00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:16.549 bad. And this is not saying this is why, but 00:22:16.549 --> 00:22:18.569 you know, he killed himself. Did he? Yes, he's 00:22:18.569 --> 00:22:21.589 dead. oh shit, I did not know. Again, I'm super 00:22:21.589 --> 00:22:24.509 not saying it's because, because yeah, I'm just 00:22:24.509 --> 00:22:26.289 letting you know that that person is no longer 00:22:26.289 --> 00:22:27.950 alive. Actually, I did know he was no longer 00:22:27.950 --> 00:22:29.890 alive, but because this was news a while ago. 00:22:30.009 --> 00:22:31.650 Yeah. It was like a whole thing. Shit, but that 00:22:31.650 --> 00:22:33.250 whole song, like once I remember in the car, 00:22:33.289 --> 00:22:34.990 I was listening to it and I was listening to 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:36.529 the words and I just started crying. I must've 00:22:36.529 --> 00:22:38.970 been near my period time, but I actually started 00:22:38.970 --> 00:22:42.170 crying and I was like, Jesus Christ, like this 00:22:42.170 --> 00:22:45.799 is a lot. You know, when you really get down 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.420 to the root of what he's saying. Yes. Yeah. Linkin 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:50.019 Park is actually quite deep. Yeah. I would say 00:22:50.019 --> 00:22:51.500 the lyrics on Linkin Park are like definitely 00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:55.380 his poetry of pain and suffering. But the remix 00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:57.140 on that song with Jay -Z, also very good. Well, 00:22:57.180 --> 00:22:59.420 my kids love it until the other day. Just going 00:22:59.420 --> 00:23:01.460 to little side note. They like to look at the 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:03.519 lyrics on Spotify. Oh, yeah. And then I'll be 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.519 look at that. I mean, I knew, but I thought he 00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:08.400 had the radio on. Clearly he didn't have the 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.539 radio on until my youngest, who is seven years 00:23:11.539 --> 00:23:15.079 old, said the N word. And I was like, let's take 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:17.980 that away from you because it's, you know. We 00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:19.700 don't want to be just reading that. Definitely 00:23:19.700 --> 00:23:22.140 not kid friendly. Oh, man. Well, Uma, to bring 00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:24.059 it back, right? Again, we could talk about Jay 00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:26.900 -Z as well for a while. Yes, we can. The moment 00:23:26.900 --> 00:23:28.460 that I knew that we wanted to have you on the 00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:30.799 show was when I came across your LinkedIn page 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.779 and you started talking about career quakes, 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:36.099 which is the coolest term and so apt. And you 00:23:36.099 --> 00:23:38.279 sent that to me, didn't you? Yes. Oh, yeah. Was 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:41.279 there a reel on it? Basically, yes, you did send 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.059 me. And I was like, you know, this is such a 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:47.019 cool concept because I do feel like we've had 00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:49.279 so many women on the show talking about, you 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:51.539 know, I was working in corporate and then X, 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.740 Y, Z happened and everything changed. And it 00:23:54.740 --> 00:23:56.119 is like an earthquake, you know, coming from 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.140 California. Right. I'm very familiar with how 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:01.019 that works. And it's like, you know, everything 00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:04.440 in that instant cracks and changes. Yeah. But 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:06.599 the great news, and I hope this is what is also 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.000 alluded to in that term, is that then it gives 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.119 you a forced opportunity to rebuild. Absolutely. 00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:15.500 Yeah. I came up with the word two months ago. 00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:18.079 Wow. It's really that new? It's amazing. Girl, 00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:20.359 you can like, this is your bumper sticker. Yeah, 00:24:20.420 --> 00:24:23.440 hashtag careerquakes. And I've just decided five 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:27.299 days ago, this will be my first book. Yay! Wow. 00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:29.420 You heard it here first, 40s Formula Exclusive. 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:34.900 Yeah, but. Just so the audience knows, I mean, 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:36.920 that took me 15 months of writing before I came 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:39.440 up with that word. So a lot of these things that 00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:41.640 you see, you know, even your podcast, which is 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:44.079 doing so well, congratulations. Thank you. There's 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:46.880 so much behind this that people don't see, right? 00:24:47.140 --> 00:24:50.039 And so it's not this immediate thing that comes. 00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:54.319 And I really wanted to find a term that was describing 00:24:54.319 --> 00:25:01.000 how you actually loved a career. I loved my career 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:05.230 in tech. large teams of hundreds and, you know, 00:25:05.250 --> 00:25:08.730 multi -billion dollar P &L. And I left going 00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:11.809 to work every day. So there's all these other 00:25:11.809 --> 00:25:14.609 terms about, oh, I bet you had a bad boss. Oh, 00:25:14.670 --> 00:25:16.930 I bet it was toxic. That's why you left. I was 00:25:16.930 --> 00:25:19.150 like, no, actually none of that. And I was trying 00:25:19.150 --> 00:25:21.730 to describe it to people. I was also trying to 00:25:21.730 --> 00:25:25.869 explain that when there is love, there is grief. 00:25:26.109 --> 00:25:29.009 Yes. And that was the piece that I didn't give 00:25:29.009 --> 00:25:32.700 myself enough time. I went straight into doing 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:37.220 instead of being. And I crashed nine months later 00:25:37.220 --> 00:25:40.420 last year. And it all just came crashing down 00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:43.960 to me for me to just actually feel the grief, 00:25:44.059 --> 00:25:48.400 the loss of, you know, the empty calendars. Suddenly 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.640 nobody wants your opinion anymore. You don't 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:54.599 need to approve anything. Right. There's a lot 00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:59.779 to be said when you are really killing it in 00:25:59.779 --> 00:26:03.869 the workplace. And you are needed. You are valued. 00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:06.609 Your opinion matters. People want to know what 00:26:06.609 --> 00:26:09.750 you say. The media wants to talk to you, right? 00:26:09.869 --> 00:26:12.950 It opens doors to any meetings. And then suddenly 00:26:12.950 --> 00:26:16.009 all of that is gone. And what? As human beings, 00:26:16.089 --> 00:26:19.150 we're just expected to like, because anytime 00:26:19.150 --> 00:26:21.349 I write about it, a lot of the comments will 00:26:21.349 --> 00:26:25.170 say, oh, but the best is still ahead of you. 00:26:25.450 --> 00:26:30.599 Or, you know, we are so quick to pivot. and we 00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:34.519 don't give ourselves enough time to experience 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:38.619 the quake yeah and so i wanted to find a word 00:26:38.619 --> 00:26:40.680 to say like oh what's this thing that just like 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.099 rips you apart and questions your whole identity 00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:47.160 again it doesn't mean there's no goodness in 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:52.019 it but so often we want to flip the page so quickly 00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:55.119 to say well you should be grateful for all these 00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:00.240 things and then move on yeah so um i want to 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:02.839 try and embrace that piece, which is my biggest 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:06.700 learning last year. And then hopefully with so 00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:09.099 many companies now restructuring and people losing 00:27:09.099 --> 00:27:12.279 jobs, et cetera, just give people a term that. 00:27:12.569 --> 00:27:14.789 hopefully they can identify with yeah because 00:27:14.789 --> 00:27:16.890 I think a lot of women especially if you did 00:27:16.890 --> 00:27:18.750 start working you know straight out of uni from 00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:22.170 your early 20s onwards your identity is built 00:27:22.170 --> 00:27:24.930 into that career you know that is then who you 00:27:24.930 --> 00:27:27.029 become like people like oh you know you've done 00:27:27.029 --> 00:27:29.390 this for so long that is you and I guess you 00:27:29.390 --> 00:27:31.670 do need that time to come to terms with it okay 00:27:31.670 --> 00:27:35.470 that was me I am now shifting into something 00:27:35.470 --> 00:27:40.019 else and I guess are you then finding out who 00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:42.539 you are, how do you find out who you are? Like 00:27:42.539 --> 00:27:45.740 once you get to that point of pivot, how do you 00:27:45.740 --> 00:27:49.420 know who you need to be or who you actually are 00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:51.579 right now? Because I guess maybe it's not a future 00:27:51.579 --> 00:27:54.339 thing, but more of a being in the present. You 00:27:54.339 --> 00:27:57.240 know, how do you realize that who is this person 00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:01.119 that I am meant to be or am? Yeah. So the trigger 00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:03.700 for that was that, you know, I've always wanted 00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:06.440 to be CEO since the age of nine. I was reading. 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.680 business magazines and I'm like that's going 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.859 to be me someday right and then I got there and 00:28:12.859 --> 00:28:15.180 it wasn't the view that I thought it was going 00:28:15.180 --> 00:28:17.720 to be so I think that's the trigger point for 00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:22.440 me and I was in a very privileged position although 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.660 I worked fucking hard to get there to be able 00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:28.039 to take an exit with a financial payout yeah 00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:31.319 which now gives me the runway I want to recognize 00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.259 not a lot of people will have that opportunity 00:28:34.230 --> 00:28:36.269 Also, I don't have kids who are very expensive 00:28:36.269 --> 00:28:39.069 in Singapore. Fucking expensive. Man, I'd be 00:28:39.069 --> 00:28:41.289 a lot richer if I didn't have those three. If 00:28:41.289 --> 00:28:43.789 I have kids, maybe we won't be having this conversation 00:28:43.789 --> 00:28:47.710 and I'd be still slogging in corporate. So that 00:28:47.710 --> 00:28:50.109 was the trigger. Then it all happened in a matter 00:28:50.109 --> 00:28:53.029 of six weeks. I find out in a therapy session 00:28:53.029 --> 00:28:58.109 with our therapist, with my ex -husband, that 00:28:58.109 --> 00:29:02.710 he did some things. And then I decided, OK, enough. 00:29:03.250 --> 00:29:07.069 I was also not feeling it. And it just gave me 00:29:07.069 --> 00:29:09.950 a reason. And then I signed my papers to leave. 00:29:10.009 --> 00:29:11.769 So all in a matter of six weeks, I went to Canada, 00:29:11.910 --> 00:29:14.410 took all my stuff, came back to Singapore and 00:29:14.410 --> 00:29:16.750 then went to New Zealand and then went through 00:29:16.750 --> 00:29:18.990 all that stages. You know, people were like, 00:29:19.049 --> 00:29:21.089 Happy New Year. I'm like, fuck New Year. Why 00:29:21.089 --> 00:29:23.549 are people so happy? Yeah, I'm in it right now. 00:29:24.769 --> 00:29:28.799 So I'm quaking. Please let me be here. So for 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:30.880 me, it was like two things happening at once. 00:29:31.420 --> 00:29:34.779 Wow. The separation and then the separation from 00:29:34.779 --> 00:29:39.640 the company. So I went to therapy and I did the 00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:42.339 Hoffman process. The breathing? Is that the breathing? 00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:45.240 No. Different. That's Wim Hof. Okay. I was like, 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:49.880 close. Also not a bad idea, but yes. It's deep 00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:53.039 psychotherapy work for a week. You got to check 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:57.079 in all devices. etc um and the first part of 00:29:57.079 --> 00:29:59.160 Hoffman is all about negative love patterns that 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:02.359 you learn from mom and dad yeah so then I continued 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:07.140 therapy and to answer your question I guess it 00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:11.980 took me about maybe 12 months or so but I believe 00:30:11.980 --> 00:30:16.940 in that 12 months I met more of myself than I 00:30:16.940 --> 00:30:21.200 have for my entire life so far so I think that 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.910 is the piece like your question is how I think 00:30:25.910 --> 00:30:30.509 it is to go meet yourself. For me, that was done 00:30:30.509 --> 00:30:35.069 through therapy and stillness, not doing anything, 00:30:35.250 --> 00:30:38.130 which is a really difficult thing to do when 00:30:38.130 --> 00:30:40.170 you're always doing. It's that whole, everyone 00:30:40.170 --> 00:30:42.910 always says, you know, it's the, it's being in 00:30:42.910 --> 00:30:45.210 an uncomfortable situation. So for you always 00:30:45.210 --> 00:30:49.089 doing is your default position. And then I guess 00:30:49.089 --> 00:30:51.450 when you have to come back and do nothing, that's 00:30:51.450 --> 00:30:54.710 when you realize and you, I guess, find what 00:30:54.710 --> 00:30:57.349 you are looking for exactly being uncomfortable 00:30:57.349 --> 00:31:00.069 i think that's a great question like what is 00:31:00.069 --> 00:31:03.250 the more uncomfortable thing to do yeah yeah 00:31:03.250 --> 00:31:05.069 as long as you're not committing a crime or anything 00:31:05.069 --> 00:31:10.670 right like that is the answer like it was more 00:31:10.670 --> 00:31:13.430 uncomfortable for me to sit still yeah and i 00:31:13.430 --> 00:31:15.190 think you know so so career quake is going to 00:31:15.190 --> 00:31:17.130 be your first book relationship quake might be 00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:19.069 your second book right because i think what you 00:31:19.069 --> 00:31:22.299 just asked applies to a lot of women going through 00:31:22.299 --> 00:31:24.339 patterns of, you know, situations of divorce 00:31:24.339 --> 00:31:26.920 and separation where it's like, is it too, is 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:28.940 it worse for you to stay in this relationship 00:31:28.940 --> 00:31:31.619 than to go? Yes. Yes. Because divorce is hard. 00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:32.980 I've been through a divorce myself. It's very 00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:35.869 hard, but there is a point. Yeah. Where you have 00:31:35.869 --> 00:31:37.829 to say, is it better to stay or to go? Yeah. 00:31:37.950 --> 00:31:40.009 And I think your heart knows that answer. Yeah. 00:31:40.089 --> 00:31:42.589 I think it's more difficult when you have children. 00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:44.410 Yeah. Yeah. Luckily, those kids are not his. 00:31:44.690 --> 00:31:47.410 That dude, you know, wish him the best. But yeah, 00:31:47.450 --> 00:31:49.049 my current husband is luckily the father of the 00:31:49.049 --> 00:31:53.079 kids. OK. OK. Yeah. It is because the easier 00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:56.480 thing is to stay. It is. It often is, you know, 00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.140 until it isn't. You know, it's one of those things. 00:31:58.220 --> 00:32:00.380 And when you were mentioning about career quakes 00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:02.579 being kind of like, like, who are you now without 00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:06.220 the career? I do think that a lot of women in 00:32:06.220 --> 00:32:08.059 their 40s and then more generally, I'd say in 00:32:08.059 --> 00:32:10.720 their 50s, go through that with empty nester 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:12.880 syndrome when the kids grow up and get out. Oh, 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:15.019 yes. And if you've been particularly if you've 00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:17.180 been a full time parent, it's like, where do 00:32:17.180 --> 00:32:20.359 I? what do I do? Like, it's not, you know, it's 00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:21.700 not that people aren't inviting you to meetings. 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.740 It's that your house is quiet. Yes. And if you 00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:26.859 have a spouse, it's like, oh, hello. Yeah. You 00:32:26.859 --> 00:32:28.900 meet that person again. You're like, oh, you 00:32:28.900 --> 00:32:31.400 are still here? Yes. Hope I still like you? Yes. 00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:33.039 Because this is the thing, because everyone, 00:32:33.180 --> 00:32:36.000 like, I guess in different situations, your personality 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.440 is going to change. Your priorities are going 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.660 to change. Where before your priority were your 00:32:40.660 --> 00:32:42.839 kids or your job, all of a sudden that's not 00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:45.450 a priority anymore. And you're like, huh. what 00:32:45.450 --> 00:32:48.630 am I going to do? Yes. And I think with a lot 00:32:48.630 --> 00:32:50.329 of women, it is the doing, because I think as 00:32:50.329 --> 00:32:53.089 women, you are constantly doing, whether you're 00:32:53.089 --> 00:32:56.730 working or, you know, raising kids or whatever 00:32:56.730 --> 00:32:59.309 it is, there's always a do. There's never the 00:32:59.309 --> 00:33:03.490 not do. Yeah, the downtime. Yes. I always say 00:33:03.490 --> 00:33:05.730 I imagine a world where there's downtime. I can't 00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:07.349 imagine how many decades that is away from me. 00:33:07.390 --> 00:33:09.799 My youngest is one. So I just like restarted 00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:12.539 the whole thing. So we're here for a while in 00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:14.000 the doing. I can tell you one of the weirdest 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.859 things though. So obviously my kids are a little 00:33:15.859 --> 00:33:19.000 bit older than yours. Yesterday we watched TV 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.400 in Sunday afternoon. That never happens. I was 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:25.859 like, wow. In silence? As in the kids were downstairs. 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:27.740 No one else was screaming, murdering, hurting 00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:28.880 each other. The kids were downstairs doing their 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:30.720 own thing. And we're like, huh, we're actually 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.660 watching TV on a Sunday afternoon. You mean you 00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:36.019 and Amin were watching TV as adults? As adults. 00:33:36.019 --> 00:33:37.799 Oh, I don't know when that, I can't even fathom 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:39.980 what you're saying. That's just a weird situation. 00:33:40.220 --> 00:33:42.599 The kids were watching TV quietly without hurting 00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:44.319 each other. No, no, no, no, no, no. We still 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:45.819 don't have that. It was me and Amin watching 00:33:45.819 --> 00:33:48.180 an adult program. Like, what was it? The Rookie 00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:52.240 on Netflix without the kids. Interfering. Living 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.660 her best life right here. Oh, yeah. Having a 00:33:55.660 --> 00:33:59.119 cup of tea. That was too hot. Oh, wow. Braggart. 00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:02.960 So we were talking off air a bit, Uma, about 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:05.640 your own podcast. So we all, you know, disclosure 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:07.099 for those of you watching from Singapore, we 00:34:07.099 --> 00:34:10.000 record in the same studio. And your podcast is 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:12.360 called Raw with Uma, which I love, by the way. 00:34:12.460 --> 00:34:14.739 So I said first thing was Career Quakes that 00:34:14.739 --> 00:34:16.559 I saw on LinkedIn. Second thing that made me 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:18.179 want to get you on here was Raw with Uma because 00:34:18.179 --> 00:34:20.360 I was like, this girl, she knows how to just 00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:22.159 like chat real, you know, and she's not going 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:23.440 to come in here with like a polished script. 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:24.739 You know, she's going to come in here and tell 00:34:24.739 --> 00:34:27.280 us how it is. Has there been any moments in your 00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:30.429 podcast? Because it is. Truly unscripted, unfiltered, 00:34:30.449 --> 00:34:34.030 honest. Yes. That made you almost, you know, 00:34:34.030 --> 00:34:36.210 feel overwhelmed with the vulnerability in that 00:34:36.210 --> 00:34:39.869 moment. Yeah. So the way the podcast runs is 00:34:39.869 --> 00:34:41.909 that I don't know who the guest is. I love that 00:34:41.909 --> 00:34:44.409 concept. Incredible. Wow. I know the moments 00:34:44.409 --> 00:34:48.829 like I know they exist before the cameras turn 00:34:48.829 --> 00:34:52.730 on and they're coming there to ask questions 00:34:52.730 --> 00:34:56.969 and have a dialogue. And the most rawest moment. 00:34:57.500 --> 00:35:01.300 It's probably when I did a live show, my first 00:35:01.300 --> 00:35:04.440 live show. And this woman came out after eight 00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.239 years of silence about her invisible disability. 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.860 She had a combination of life -threatening diseases 00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:15.099 that you cannot see, including lupus. And the 00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:20.179 irony was that she worked for a health care provider. 00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:24.739 But when she was at the hospital bed, they expected 00:35:24.739 --> 00:35:29.260 her. to get on a call, to solve an issue. That's 00:35:29.260 --> 00:35:33.679 just one of many examples that she shared. And 00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:36.599 that day also happened to be her birthday. So 00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:41.920 it was a full circle moment for her to just come 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:45.719 out and talk about everything that happened then. 00:35:46.179 --> 00:35:49.579 And I think that is the power of vulnerability. 00:35:49.900 --> 00:35:52.980 I think a lot of times, you know, and also there's 00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:54.699 this thing about, well, are you oversharing or 00:35:54.699 --> 00:35:59.110 not? I think in those moments, I have come to 00:35:59.110 --> 00:36:01.769 believe that a lot of our stories are shared, 00:36:01.889 --> 00:36:06.130 that we are not alone in them. Right. And I believe 00:36:06.130 --> 00:36:08.670 that episode is probably still the most watched 00:36:08.670 --> 00:36:11.510 from season one. So that was probably the most 00:36:11.510 --> 00:36:16.230 like you could hear a pin drop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:36:16.329 --> 00:36:21.690 Do you think sharing heals? Yes, I believe sharing 00:36:21.690 --> 00:36:26.789 heals. I think sharing. I think the question 00:36:26.789 --> 00:36:29.030 to ask yourself, like when I write posts on LinkedIn, 00:36:29.429 --> 00:36:31.989 you know, there are days where I go like, you 00:36:31.989 --> 00:36:37.989 know, am I oversharing? And so I think you should 00:36:37.989 --> 00:36:42.130 share if it's a scar, but not if it's a scab. 00:36:42.269 --> 00:36:45.570 Oh, I like that, girl. Can you break that down 00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:49.110 as an example? Yes. So I think if you are sharing 00:36:49.110 --> 00:36:54.619 because you... want to put out there and expect 00:36:54.619 --> 00:36:57.260 people to help you i mean that's therapist the 00:36:57.260 --> 00:36:59.119 audience didn't sign up to be a therapist yeah 00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:02.579 oh yeah but if it's still raw if they if they 00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:05.699 if the the wound is still raw yes now it's not 00:37:05.699 --> 00:37:08.260 the right time yeah but once you've managed to 00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:10.420 heal from it you can then help others with it 00:37:10.420 --> 00:37:12.960 you don't have to fully heal okay like i think 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:17.199 if it's Even if the scar is fresh, you can say, 00:37:17.300 --> 00:37:19.940 hey, I'm still figuring it out, which is what 00:37:19.940 --> 00:37:23.159 I say for all my perimenopause posts because 00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:26.380 it's not a full scar yet. You're not through 00:37:26.380 --> 00:37:32.559 it. It's a daily scar. Oh, yeah. Right? So I 00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:34.980 think that's the difference. But I also don't 00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:39.699 want to judge anyone who chooses to share because, 00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:42.480 firstly, we started a conversation about women 00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:46.780 being invisible so hey you know like if they're 00:37:46.780 --> 00:37:48.739 taking a step out there to share like okay go 00:37:48.739 --> 00:37:52.820 for it but if you do want to ask yourself the 00:37:52.820 --> 00:37:55.500 question if it's over sharing or not i think 00:37:55.500 --> 00:38:00.480 like if you're sharing to connect versus sharing 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:04.480 to get help yeah i think the scar versus scab 00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:07.260 then that's if you're doing the first then i 00:38:07.260 --> 00:38:11.590 think Absolutely. That was that was a topic that 00:38:11.590 --> 00:38:14.369 one of our guests, Simone Heng, talked about 00:38:14.369 --> 00:38:17.150 on on our show. She basically said that it was 00:38:17.150 --> 00:38:20.150 a stranger dumping. Yeah, she just she she couldn't 00:38:20.150 --> 00:38:21.809 help herself. But like oversharing for her was 00:38:21.809 --> 00:38:23.429 almost like a trauma dump, you know, like she 00:38:23.429 --> 00:38:26.670 would. Yeah, she would just, you know, like verbally 00:38:26.670 --> 00:38:28.869 just say everything to the point where she was 00:38:28.869 --> 00:38:31.949 on a plane. And the lady behind her said. Can 00:38:31.949 --> 00:38:33.590 you just stop now? We're trying to sleep and 00:38:33.590 --> 00:38:35.570 we know your whole life story. And I guess just 00:38:35.570 --> 00:38:38.630 sort of, you know, realizing when is the right 00:38:38.630 --> 00:38:41.550 time to... There's a time for therapy and there's 00:38:41.550 --> 00:38:43.590 a time for... I love the scar. Like you said, 00:38:43.610 --> 00:38:45.110 it can be a fresh scar. Like you said, you don't 00:38:45.110 --> 00:38:47.690 have to be... I feel like you, Uma, are the queen 00:38:47.690 --> 00:38:49.769 of messy middles. Oh, thanks. You know, with 00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:52.570 career... It's like you're... willing to talk 00:38:52.570 --> 00:38:54.449 when you're in it. I'm going to hashtag that. 00:38:54.690 --> 00:39:01.670 You heard it here first. You are so comfortable 00:39:01.670 --> 00:39:04.849 talking about when it is messy and painful and 00:39:04.849 --> 00:39:08.030 unpredictable. That is not where everyone's comfy 00:39:08.030 --> 00:39:12.789 talking. I think what draws me into your LinkedIn 00:39:12.789 --> 00:39:16.889 time and again is what is she in now? What insight 00:39:16.889 --> 00:39:21.780 does she have from the inside? Given that, okay, 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.559 Queen of Messy Metals. Yes. What are your anchors? 00:39:24.619 --> 00:39:28.059 So when things are tumultuous, right, what does 00:39:28.059 --> 00:39:30.300 pull you back to kind of that authentic self 00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:33.400 that you've now discovered? Yeah, it's very non 00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:37.079 -glamorous things. I like it. Go. Saturday morning 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.900 walks with my best friend where we tell each 00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:43.619 other things that maybe no one else would ever 00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:47.460 say to us. There is no friendship tax in our 00:39:47.460 --> 00:39:51.400 conversations. I love that. Because I think often 00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:53.199 with women, you know, there's a friendship tax, 00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:57.440 right? And you want to say that your friends 00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:58.860 are the most perfect thing in the world, but 00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:01.440 we have a shared understanding that we will always 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:06.579 hold the mirror to each other. And I think it's 00:40:06.579 --> 00:40:09.679 also another form of therapy for both of us to 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:12.239 do like, okay, here's how my week went. Here's 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:13.980 the questions I'm asking or here's what I'm really 00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:17.530 struggling with. The second thing I think that's 00:40:17.530 --> 00:40:22.789 been the most powerful is stillness. And, you 00:40:22.789 --> 00:40:27.730 know, it comes randomly to me when suddenly I 00:40:27.730 --> 00:40:31.429 have emotions that are unprocessed. And it shows 00:40:31.429 --> 00:40:33.449 up in the most random moments. Like there was 00:40:33.449 --> 00:40:36.610 one evening I had an amazing dinner with a really 00:40:36.610 --> 00:40:39.230 nice friend and I'm on the way home and then 00:40:39.230 --> 00:40:42.909 I'm just like upset. And I don't even know where 00:40:42.909 --> 00:40:47.420 it's coming from. And before, what I would do 00:40:47.420 --> 00:40:52.059 is just get myself to bed and I'll be okay in 00:40:52.059 --> 00:40:55.840 the morning. So I decided, okay, I got home and 00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:58.420 I just sat on the floor in my living room and 00:40:58.420 --> 00:41:01.179 I just cried. And I don't know what I'm crying 00:41:01.179 --> 00:41:04.940 about, right? But I'm like, okay, it's here for 00:41:04.940 --> 00:41:06.920 a reason. My soul is knocking. I don't know what 00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:11.280 it is. And then the next day, I took a walk. 00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:15.480 And I think nature does this thing about, you 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:17.460 know, you don't need to impress or do anything. 00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:19.960 It has a way of just hugging you when you're 00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:23.119 in nature. So that's also my go -to thing. No 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:25.539 nature tests. It's just like get out into nature, 00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:27.699 especially like having your feet on the ground, 00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:30.940 grounding. And just like sitting on a park bench 00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:33.440 or just walking, not listening to anything, no 00:41:33.440 --> 00:41:37.119 stimulations. So those are my go -to. Those all 00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:39.719 sound lovely. Yeah. And I think, you know, what 00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:41.699 you're doing is you're actually doing what's 00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:44.239 human. Again, you know, you're being present 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:46.440 with a friend, connecting with somebody, being 00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:48.800 real and then getting out there and just being 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:52.300 in the world. And that is something that, again, 00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:55.019 will, I guess, bring you back and help you stay 00:41:55.019 --> 00:41:57.320 grounded, literally and metaphorically. Yeah. 00:41:57.460 --> 00:42:00.920 I learned this 3H from my therapist, which I 00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:04.309 found to be helpful because. I am the person 00:42:04.309 --> 00:42:07.110 who doesn't know how to ask for help. And so 00:42:07.110 --> 00:42:10.789 there was one time I pinged my best friend and 00:42:10.789 --> 00:42:12.869 said, hey, are you going to be in later this 00:42:12.869 --> 00:42:16.570 evening? And she answers me like two hours later 00:42:16.570 --> 00:42:19.010 because she's at the beach. She checks in with 00:42:19.010 --> 00:42:20.789 her husband and then replies like, oh, I think 00:42:20.789 --> 00:42:23.070 we're going to be in. So then I'm like, can I 00:42:23.070 --> 00:42:25.409 come over? So then I go over and then I'm like, 00:42:25.469 --> 00:42:29.380 you know, and she's like. Your message has zero 00:42:29.380 --> 00:42:33.360 urgency whatsoever. So now we use Simon Sinek's, 00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:35.860 do you have eight minutes? When I get there, 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:39.239 my therapist says, look, I think you should tell, 00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:41.599 ask them, like, what is it that you need? And 00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:44.519 the 3H is, do you want to be held? Do you want 00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:48.000 to be heard? Do you want to be helped? And she 00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:51.139 says, you can't be helped without first being 00:42:51.139 --> 00:42:57.840 held or heard. And so now I have language. So 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:02.219 I'm trying to express that to friends. So I'll 00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:04.739 text them and I go, okay, 3 -H, I just want to 00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:08.280 be held. And then maybe I want to be heard. And 00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:11.019 then maybe I want to be held, but sometimes I 00:43:11.019 --> 00:43:12.920 don't want to be held depending on what we're 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.500 talking about. Yeah. Talk to me about this, do 00:43:15.500 --> 00:43:17.420 you have eight minutes? Is that like a conversation 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:19.880 starter or how does that? Yeah, so Simon Sinek 00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:23.139 tells the story of his very good friend who reaches 00:43:23.139 --> 00:43:26.659 out to just like, hey, how are you? Hey, how 00:43:26.659 --> 00:43:28.820 are you? And he's like, yeah, good, all good. 00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:30.699 But that was her way of saying, like, I need 00:43:30.699 --> 00:43:32.639 help. But it doesn't come through the messages. 00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:35.679 And then he finds out later. And he's like, this 00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:41.840 is not working. We need a code. So he says, because 00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:44.199 a decent conversation takes about eight minutes 00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:46.820 for someone to just relay what's on their mind. 00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:49.800 So he says, okay, next time text me and say, 00:43:49.860 --> 00:43:54.139 I need eight minutes. That's so cool. yeah because 00:43:54.139 --> 00:43:55.840 it's true like when you when you reach out to 00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:57.300 someone you know if everyone's like yeah everything's 00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:59.059 good you don't then want to turn around and say 00:43:59.059 --> 00:44:00.900 well you know something's really shit and something's 00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:03.880 going down because how do you bring that how 00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:05.500 do you bring that up and using a code like that 00:44:05.500 --> 00:44:08.639 is just such a great way to you know say what 00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:11.690 you want to say without without it being too 00:44:11.690 --> 00:44:13.349 much, I guess. Well, and that's the other thing. 00:44:13.389 --> 00:44:16.110 Yeah, I didn't know that it takes about eight 00:44:16.110 --> 00:44:18.869 minutes to get into what my editor taught me, 00:44:18.929 --> 00:44:21.869 the nut graph of a conversation. It's like you 00:44:21.869 --> 00:44:23.570 think, oh, I'm going to have to talk to this 00:44:23.570 --> 00:44:25.909 person for an hour or I'm just going to have 00:44:25.909 --> 00:44:28.590 to blurt it right out and freak out with no context. 00:44:28.849 --> 00:44:31.070 But eight minutes is like a very cozy amount 00:44:31.070 --> 00:44:32.809 of time. It's like we all got eight minutes, 00:44:32.869 --> 00:44:35.289 especially for a friend. Yes. Especially for 00:44:35.289 --> 00:44:37.800 a friend. Well, you've given us, first of all, 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:40.099 so many elements of what I'm about to ask you 00:44:40.099 --> 00:44:42.940 in our final question, which is what is your 00:44:42.940 --> 00:44:45.260 40s formula? So, again, we have actually like 00:44:45.260 --> 00:44:46.940 literally formulaic data from you in terms of 00:44:46.940 --> 00:44:49.420 numbers. But I would like to hear more qualitatively, 00:44:49.420 --> 00:44:51.780 you know, what are the pieces of advice, the 00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:53.800 few kind of nuggets that you can give to women 00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:56.440 in our age group looking to thrive through this 00:44:56.440 --> 00:45:01.539 decade? Wow. Well, I'm still figuring it out. 00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:05.489 What I've discovered so far. is that it's so 00:45:05.489 --> 00:45:11.050 important to, if you want, to meet yourself and 00:45:11.050 --> 00:45:15.489 whatever vehicles that works best for you. For 00:45:15.489 --> 00:45:18.809 me, that's therapy. And I have come to treat 00:45:18.809 --> 00:45:23.969 therapy like going to the gym. And I used to 00:45:23.969 --> 00:45:27.150 only call my therapist when something happened 00:45:27.150 --> 00:45:30.150 instead of, you know, now we meet every two weeks. 00:45:30.699 --> 00:45:32.639 regardless if I have something to talk about 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:36.280 or not so whatever medium you want to use to 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.460 meet yourself and then I guess just asking yourself 00:45:39.460 --> 00:45:43.880 if all dimensions of you are really showing up 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:46.340 in the way that you would like to show up it's 00:45:46.340 --> 00:45:48.280 okay if you don't want all of them to show up 00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:51.480 but I want all of me to show up so I feel like 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.760 I'm in my reinvention stage I believe that the 00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:59.099 40s are where you ask all the questions and the 00:45:59.099 --> 00:46:02.480 50s is where, you know, apparently life is going 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:05.380 to be really, really amazing. And then I'm looking 00:46:05.380 --> 00:46:08.500 at Melinda Gates in 60 and then Oprah at 70. 00:46:08.619 --> 00:46:12.179 Yes. And I'm like, yeah. So I'm looking at them 00:46:12.179 --> 00:46:14.800 going, okay, that's great. I think 40s is also, 00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.280 you know, the period of perimenopause for most 00:46:18.280 --> 00:46:21.500 women in the world. And this can really throw 00:46:21.500 --> 00:46:23.980 Spanner in the works and give you more questions 00:46:23.980 --> 00:46:28.570 to doubt yourself. Right. So just remember that 00:46:28.570 --> 00:46:32.110 sometimes your hormones are playing a role, a 00:46:32.110 --> 00:46:35.389 major role in whatever lens that you're looking 00:46:35.389 --> 00:46:37.710 at life at all the questions that you're asking. 00:46:37.789 --> 00:46:43.349 So definitely the meet yourself, your health 00:46:43.349 --> 00:46:47.690 and your mental state. And I believe I learned 00:46:47.690 --> 00:46:49.309 this at the Hoffman process. You know, there's 00:46:49.309 --> 00:46:53.610 four parts to us, your physical body. Your logical 00:46:53.610 --> 00:46:55.769 mind, that's the one that wants to do, do, do 00:46:55.769 --> 00:47:00.710 and be logical. Then your emotional child or 00:47:00.710 --> 00:47:04.849 self. So every day that person is different. 00:47:04.969 --> 00:47:08.510 Sometimes it's a child. Sometimes it's a five 00:47:08.510 --> 00:47:10.630 -year -old Uma that needs something. Sometimes 00:47:10.630 --> 00:47:16.530 it's exactly who I am today. Uma 5 .0. Yeah, 00:47:16.550 --> 00:47:20.510 three years. The last part is your soul. So if 00:47:20.510 --> 00:47:23.130 you think of it as a horse carriage, the horse 00:47:23.130 --> 00:47:25.130 is the emotional child. It just wants to go and 00:47:25.130 --> 00:47:27.690 play, play with other horses, right? It doesn't 00:47:27.690 --> 00:47:30.190 want to be on the leash, right? And then the 00:47:30.190 --> 00:47:32.230 rider is the logical self, telling the child 00:47:32.230 --> 00:47:36.150 where to go, right? And then the entire carriage 00:47:36.150 --> 00:47:39.610 is the body. But the passenger is your soul, 00:47:39.789 --> 00:47:43.909 and your soul is telling the rider where to go. 00:47:44.650 --> 00:47:48.699 And I think I only found my soul recently. Yeah, 00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:50.860 like I didn't know she was there. So now I can 00:47:50.860 --> 00:47:56.059 see her on most days. So yeah, I think 40s is 00:47:56.059 --> 00:48:00.199 like the best time ever for women. It's the best 00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:02.980 and the hardest, I think. Because you're somewhere 00:48:02.980 --> 00:48:06.059 where you got maybe some decent money, right? 00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:07.659 You've kind of figured out what you like, you 00:48:07.659 --> 00:48:11.179 don't like. Then your body is starting to send 00:48:11.179 --> 00:48:14.699 you signals that question yourself. But I think 00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:18.780 it's the great decade. of being a questionologist 00:48:18.780 --> 00:48:21.659 for yourself. And I always say that when I set 00:48:21.659 --> 00:48:24.320 New Year's resolutions, or should I say when 00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:27.119 I do my end of year letter. Which I love, by 00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:29.119 the way. Your end -of -year letter is incredible. 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:31.460 Last year was a tough one. But I always say, 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:33.599 was this a year that asked questions or a year 00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:36.099 that answered them? Because typically those things 00:48:36.099 --> 00:48:38.900 kind of go one by one. And if you can kind of 00:48:38.900 --> 00:48:41.059 look at the year previous, if it was a big question 00:48:41.059 --> 00:48:42.699 -asking year, you're probably about to get a 00:48:42.699 --> 00:48:44.920 lot of answers, like you said, about your 50s. 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.139 And if it was a big answering year, you might 00:48:47.139 --> 00:48:48.980 have some stuff questioned up in the next year. 00:48:49.099 --> 00:48:51.420 And it's kind of a nice way to ride those waves. 00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:54.280 Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for 00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:56.099 being here with us. We are so honored to have 00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:57.539 you, Uma, and it's just been a great conversation. 00:48:57.659 --> 00:49:01.559 Thank you. Thank you, Uma. Before we go, please 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:04.019 remember to hit subscribe and take a moment to 00:49:04.019 --> 00:49:06.420 support The 40s Formula by leaving a review on 00:49:06.420 --> 00:49:09.000 your favorite podcast platform. Your reviews 00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:11.079 will help us to reach more people and allow us 00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:13.539 to continue to bring valuable content. It should 00:49:13.539 --> 00:49:15.260 only take a moment and it's a free way for you 00:49:15.260 --> 00:49:17.599 to support the show. You can also stay updated 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:20.179 with The 40s Formula by following us on Instagram 00:49:20.179 --> 00:49:24.099 at The 40s Formula, all one word. We share behind 00:49:24.099 --> 00:49:26.659 the scenes insights, episode updates and much 00:49:26.659 --> 00:49:29.079 more. So please be sure to hit that follow button. 00:49:29.380 --> 00:49:31.619 We appreciate your time and support. Thank you 00:49:31.619 --> 00:49:33.420 for being part of this community. And we'll be 00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:35.119 back next week for more empowering conversations 00:49:35.119 --> 00:50:21.789 with inspiring guests. Bye. Can I also just run 00:50:21.789 --> 00:50:24.849 through your name? Yes. Uma Tana Balasingam. 00:50:25.050 --> 00:50:28.909 Yeah. So the last name is Balasingam. It's like 00:50:28.909 --> 00:50:31.489 a sing. Balasingam. Balasingam. If you remember 00:50:31.489 --> 00:50:34.829 sing. Yeah. Yeah. Balasingam. Yeah. Versus a 00:50:34.829 --> 00:50:39.449 gam. Yeah. Gam. Yes. Uma Tana Balasingam. Yes. 00:50:39.489 --> 00:50:42.110 Perfect. Okay. Well, not perfect and I'm sure 00:50:42.110 --> 00:50:43.150 of it. Okay.