Coming up on The 40s Formula. So I was told I
had the wrong color growing up. And I remember
listening to it once and I started crying. And
I was like, Jesus Christ, this is a lot. I'm
about to be divorced. I just made a wrong decision
out of fear of being alone. You talk a lot about
feeling unseen. And that resonates with so many
of our listeners. Uma Tana Balasingam, leadership
coach, founder of Raw With Uma, and one of LinkedIn's
top voices in Asia for her honest, courageous
takes on womanhood, career, and the money magic
in between. The 40s Formula. The 40s Formula.
The 40s Formula. Hosted by Jasmine Dillon, integrated
health strategist specializing in gut health,
hormones, and midlife well -being. And Amanda
Lim, director of Lift Clinic and a leading expert
in female strength and metabolism. Name one of
CNA's top podcasts. and a finalist for Best Health
and Wellness Podcast. The 40s Formula is your
no -fluff, science meets real -life guide to
thriving in your 40s. Welcome back to The 40s
Formula, the podcast that blends science, soul,
and a little bit of sass to help you thrive in
your 40s and beyond. Now, if you've ever found
yourself looking around your life thinking, I've
achieved so much, but why do I still feel like
something's missing? This episode is for you.
Today, we're going deep into identity, purpose
and the power of raw storytelling with a guest
who knows exactly what it means to reinvent herself.
And in doing so, make space for hundreds of women
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in, Uma. We are really, really happy to have
you here. Thank you for making time for us. Great
to be here. So you talk a lot about feeling unseen.
And I think that resonates with so many of our
listeners. And especially when you talk about
it as a woman of color, as a woman from this
part of the world, as a woman, right? There are
so many listeners that are nodding along with
that. And how do you help women find their visibility?
So I was told I had the wrong color growing up.
Oh, my God. I've heard the thing. Yes. My mother
bought. This fair and lovely cream from India.
I knew you were going to say fair and lovely.
Oh, my God. And she made me use it every day.
She was fairer skinned than me. And I was considered
to be dark. And so every day as I put on that
cream, I'm reminded I'm the wrong color. And
in my second job, when I was working in IBM Malaysia,
I took a trip to the U .S., my first trip. to
the United States and suddenly white men were
like, oh my gosh, like your skin is beautiful.
And that was the first experience to unlearn,
like, wait a minute, like this narrative and
this message that I've been telling myself and
that has been told to me, is it all wrong? And
particularly white men, because I was flipping
business magazines at the age of nine and you
associate power with white men. So. And that
was the turning point for me. So I think that
a lot of us are hidden and there's so many things
that we have to unlearn. And it's a very hard
journey, I believe, depending on what narratives
you've been told and then the stories that you
tell yourself. And learning to unlearn that has
been a lifetime of a journey for me so far. I
am still unlearning quite a few things. But I
believe that a lot of us are hidden. And that's
why I created Hidden Talent to Visible Leader
as a program. And I think my biggest lesson is
that it's a muscle to build to become visible.
And it is deeply uncomfortable. And you have
to fight against, or at least I've had to. All
these things that come to your head about people
might think you're just so full of yourself.
And that's interesting. I do feel like, you know,
you're talking about your first visit to the
U .S., right? And these white men being like,
oh, my God, you're gorgeous, right? And I think
that that's something that people of color in
this part of the world visiting, you know, the
U .S. might experience as well. Like, this is
a different, an entirely different, you know,
thing. And obviously that comes along with things
like, you know, exotification, all of that. I
was just about to say, people thought you were
exotic. Yes, exactly. It's not exactly a clean
-cut positive. But the point is, it takes unlearning.
It takes being out of your regular environment
to have that. And I think you doing that at a
young age is probably very powerful. How old
were you when you went? I was 23. What a perfect
time. Yes. What a perfect time when you're still
very much negotiating that identity. Also, then
two years later, I took part in a beauty pageant
in Malaysia. just for the fun of it because the
cutoff age was 25. i better get in so i picked
my best friend from union i was like you know
like just for laughs let's just do it for laughs
yeah uh and we laughed our way all through the
finals however the most important thing was that
they gave us all these workshops about how to
write your cv And, you know, like for Indian
women, we're hairy. So they thought it's how
to wax. Nice. In the preparation for the pageant?
Yeah, they took us to a wax parlor. Yeah, like
how to walk straight, you know, how to dress
for work. I only wore pants for the first 10
years of my career in tech. And so I was sitting
in those rooms wondering, oh, my gosh, like,
did I have to enter a beauty pageant to learn
all this? And what about all the other women
who are like me, who will never get to enter
these rooms? Yeah. And again, you know, the feminist
in me is like, great that I had to take a beauty
pageant to get there. You know, but again, at
the same time, wonderful that it did go deeper
than Skin Deep, right? That there was actually
some life skills that you got out of that. Yeah.
So nowadays, you're one of these top creators
on LinkedIn, right? You're one of these women
that is kind of, you know, a known storyteller,
especially out of this region as well. It's so
colorful and alive and authentic when you go
to your page. I encourage everyone listening
to go to Uma's LinkedIn and just see the vibe
is so different. It's not like a staunch business,
but I'm not IBM Malaysia. I mean, you're not
IBM Malaysia anymore, but you don't get that
vibe at all. You get this beautiful kind of tapestry
of information and color and beauty. It's wonderful.
do you help women who are so uncomfortable bringing
themselves to social media to authentically present
themselves like you do yeah well firstly This
is not the version that was there many years
ago. This is not UMA 1 .0. No, I'm 47 now. It's
the month of June. So I used to be in software.
So I always say I'm version 47. I like it. That's
amazing. Yeah. What's the date today? So at the
last numbers. So what you see today on LinkedIn.
is the uncaged version of Uma. The no -shits
-given Uma, right? Yes, the I don't give a...
You can say it. We are an explicit podcast. I
don't give a fuck, really, about what other people
think anymore. And I had a decent enough following
because I had a very big corporate title and
I was the co -founder of Lean in Singapore, which
is a community of over 7 ,000 now. Wow. And then
I tripled my followership after I started writing
this uncaged version of me. So I would say like
a lot of times people come to me and say, I really
want to write on LinkedIn or whatever social
platforms that you're on. And the first question
you should ask yourself is where is your audience
hanging out? And that's the main platform. You
don't have to be on every platform if you're
just starting out. And for me, professionals
are on LinkedIn today. So that's my main platform.
Now, most people ask this question. I want to
get my voice out there, but then I'm so afraid
of what people would think. And then I ask them,
who are these people? And what do you think they
would say? Well, they're going to say that I'm
so full of myself or that I am cocky or that
if I tell a really... I had this woman in India
who, you know, grew up in like a third year city.
And, you know, Apple having Apple was like luxury.
Right. And so she didn't want people to judge
that story. So I said, well, what's the worst
thing that's going to happen if you do put out
your story out there? And, you know. That's the
question you should keep asking yourself to peel
the onion. What's the worst thing that's going
to happen? Well, they're going to say, OK, if
that happens, what's the worst thing that's going
to happen? OK. And then if that happens. Right.
And then the last bit is if all these people
are going to judge the true sense of you that
you're putting out there, do you really want
them in your world? Right. That's it. And I say
that if you are very nervous to hit post, I think
that's a really good sign. Because that's honesty
about to go out to the world. Yeah. And I think
all of us who create content in any context,
we always have that moment of reservation. Like,
is it too, for me, at least I'll share with you
mine, is like, is it too much? You know, am I
too out there? Am I too much in people's face?
And at the same time, it's like, but I don't
need to worry about the haters. I need to worry
about my audience. You know you made it when
you got haters. Y 'all has got haters. You get
pregnant and lift a barbell, you got haters immediately.
I promise you that. You got people coming at
you. But yeah, it's like that's not who it's
for. So what's that old saying? Lions don't lose
sleep over the opinions of sheep. It's like who
cares if the sheep are mewing over what you say?
The lions are going to be like, hell yeah, girl.
I mean, do you think there's this, I guess, fine
line between being confident and being a bitch
or being a dickhead, you know? Because I feel
like there is sometimes like this unbalance,
you know, like you're walking a tightrope, right?
As a woman. Yeah, especially because I remember
when I first got a job outside of university.
all of us can sound terrible saying this but
all of the female bosses i had yeah we're just
oh i just i just did not like them yeah whereas
the male bosses felt fine and i just i didn't
know i think i just had this picture in my head
like oh women are bitches sorry sorry women um
yeah but you know like the men they they just
i don't know come across differently do women
have to be that way in order to Get there? Oh
my gosh, how much time have you got? So firstly,
let's talk about the tightrope, which is one
of the four workplace biases. Too masculine,
too feminine. Too masculine is, you know, you
make decisions, you're confident, you're ambitious,
all male -advantaging terms, right? Too feminine
is you are in a meeting and you have an idea
and you're like, excuse me, I think maybe, you
know, too feminine. Both ends of the spectrum,
you get penalized. So I've learned to do what
I call the gender judo, which is 80 % of the
time I'm going to show up feminine so that 20
% of the time if I need to exercise masculine
traits, I'm not going to get penalized for it.
And I love that story about how you saw the female
leaders versus the male leaders because actually
as women become more successful, I believe we
do have to choose between liked or respected.
And as men get more successful, they are both
liked and respected. It's so unfair. Yes. And
there's a study that proves this from Stanford.
You know, Howard and Heidi, right? Real life
character. And one piece of paper has Howard,
one piece of paper has Heidi. And the people
who had Heidi said, oh, I don't know if I want
to work for her. She seems very bossy. You know,
exactly the same words on two pieces of paper.
Right. So I think as women ourselves, we need
to just check in on whether we are also having
this bias on other women. We definitely do. I
mean, I've certainly had a lot of women say I
am bossy and, you know, just just to whatever.
So, yeah, it's a tightrope. And I think if you
want to progress in the workplace and in male
-dominated industry, what I've seen to work best
is to meet people where they are. And because
my only other choice was to wait for the world
to change. That's not going to happen, is it?
Not anytime soon. Yeah, not in our lifetimes
necessarily. So if I see Amanda there, it's like,
okay, Amanda, I'm going to come to you, right?
You are American. You are, you know, with everything
that you bring. I'm going to come to you no matter
what you think about me. And then once you learn
to trust me and like me, you're going to walk
towards me. And yes, it is mentally exhausting.
But I don't know any other way because otherwise,
you know, you just sit there and go. I'm the
victim, right? terrible that I can't remember
the title of the book, but a really good friend
of mine, Dr. Kate Mason, just wrote a book about
leveraging likability. to become more powerful
in your career. And that, you know, using kind
of women's innate, what's been seen as a fault
as people pleasers is not necessarily, you know,
obviously people pleasing is generally something
that you want to get over, but meaning use the
likability piece that you've learned from that
people pleasing and apply it as a strength. And
I think that, you know, that's kind of what you're
describing here, right? It's like, you know,
come, you know, use, use your general, you're
so likable. It's like, you know, like use that
likability to get in the door. doors that you
need yeah and then take them by the reins girl
i think that's the feminine superpowers yeah
you know we are emotionally intelligent more
aware right we have no qualms about wearing our
hearts on our sleeves so actually people connect
with us much easier so we should absolutely be
using that to our advantage yeah and i think
you know women we suffer from a lot of different
kind of um Self -imposed narratives, what you
had brought up earlier with your skin color being
told it was a certain way. So then you kind of
highlighted that chapter that it must be a problem
and then realizing that you can rewrite that
narrative. Women in their 40s who are so deeply
ingrained in some of these narratives, they didn't
have the opportunity to go to the U .S. when
they were 23 and be told how beautiful they were.
When you see women in our age group deeply set
in narratives that do not serve them. What's
the first step out? I think the first step is
really asking yourself if you are living to the
expectations of your full self or to the expectations
of others. I am questioning everything right
now in my life, including marriage. I'm about
to be divorced. It's a very loving divorce. But
if I question myself on, well, why did I agree
to get married? And I actually got married much
later in life, in my 40s. Oh, wow. Okay. If I'm
honest with myself, and I went to therapy last
year, I did it out of fear, out of fear of being
alone. Out of fear of, oh, my gosh. I don't want
kids, which is a whole other conversation because
women get judged for that too. Very much so.
But I just made a wrong decision. And we both
paid the price for it. We both have responsibility
towards why the relationship didn't work. But
I'll just speak for myself. I just went with
whatever narratives were out there. Because I
don't know otherwise. So now I'm trying to think
like, OK, if I built a new planet and there was
like no expectations, like all these generations
before me didn't exist. Like, what do I actually
want? And I think all of us, especially women,
know deep inside if the multidimensional aspects
of us is actually showing up or not, because
it will come through little clues like. You might
be surrounded by the people who love you the
most in the world, but there is something else.
Something keeps knocking. Your soul, I believe,
keeps knocking to say, something's missing. Or
you're at work and you just got promoted and
you're being celebrated. And then your soul's
knocking and saying, is this it? So do you have
the space in your life to even listen to your
soul knocking? Maybe that's the step before.
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I find that... What you just said has really
sort of made me think about how sometimes I feel
like I've got expectations on my kids and how
I want them to do certain things. And there's
this song, I don't know if you know it, by Linkin
Park. It's called Numb. Basically, let me be
who I want to be. I can't remember the exact
words right now, but I don't want to basically
walk in your footsteps. And it sounds like the
guy's talking to his dad or his parent. And I
remember listening to it once and I started crying
because I was like... Fuck, I don't want my kid
to go through that. But then as a mom, I can't
help myself. You know, I'm constantly have these
expectations because I feel like you're my child.
You know, maybe you can do better. But then am
I putting too much pressure on him? It's like
a, you know, it's this whole expectation. And
then that's one side of things. And then the
expectation you put on yourself is like a whole
different story, you know? Not to make you feel
bad. And this is not saying this is why, but
you know, he killed himself. Did he? Yes, he's
dead. oh shit, I did not know. Again, I'm super
not saying it's because, because yeah, I'm just
letting you know that that person is no longer
alive. Actually, I did know he was no longer
alive, but because this was news a while ago.
Yeah. It was like a whole thing. Shit, but that
whole song, like once I remember in the car,
I was listening to it and I was listening to
the words and I just started crying. I must've
been near my period time, but I actually started
crying and I was like, Jesus Christ, like this
is a lot. You know, when you really get down
to the root of what he's saying. Yes. Yeah. Linkin
Park is actually quite deep. Yeah. I would say
the lyrics on Linkin Park are like definitely
his poetry of pain and suffering. But the remix
on that song with Jay -Z, also very good. Well,
my kids love it until the other day. Just going
to little side note. They like to look at the
lyrics on Spotify. Oh, yeah. And then I'll be
look at that. I mean, I knew, but I thought he
had the radio on. Clearly he didn't have the
radio on until my youngest, who is seven years
old, said the N word. And I was like, let's take
that away from you because it's, you know. We
don't want to be just reading that. Definitely
not kid friendly. Oh, man. Well, Uma, to bring
it back, right? Again, we could talk about Jay
-Z as well for a while. Yes, we can. The moment
that I knew that we wanted to have you on the
show was when I came across your LinkedIn page
and you started talking about career quakes,
which is the coolest term and so apt. And you
sent that to me, didn't you? Yes. Oh, yeah. Was
there a reel on it? Basically, yes, you did send
me. And I was like, you know, this is such a
cool concept because I do feel like we've had
so many women on the show talking about, you
know, I was working in corporate and then X,
Y, Z happened and everything changed. And it
is like an earthquake, you know, coming from
California. Right. I'm very familiar with how
that works. And it's like, you know, everything
in that instant cracks and changes. Yeah. But
the great news, and I hope this is what is also
alluded to in that term, is that then it gives
you a forced opportunity to rebuild. Absolutely.
Yeah. I came up with the word two months ago.
Wow. It's really that new? It's amazing. Girl,
you can like, this is your bumper sticker. Yeah,
hashtag careerquakes. And I've just decided five
days ago, this will be my first book. Yay! Wow.
You heard it here first, 40s Formula Exclusive.
Yeah, but. Just so the audience knows, I mean,
that took me 15 months of writing before I came
up with that word. So a lot of these things that
you see, you know, even your podcast, which is
doing so well, congratulations. Thank you. There's
so much behind this that people don't see, right?
And so it's not this immediate thing that comes.
And I really wanted to find a term that was describing
how you actually loved a career. I loved my career
in tech. large teams of hundreds and, you know,
multi -billion dollar P &L. And I left going
to work every day. So there's all these other
terms about, oh, I bet you had a bad boss. Oh,
I bet it was toxic. That's why you left. I was
like, no, actually none of that. And I was trying
to describe it to people. I was also trying to
explain that when there is love, there is grief.
Yes. And that was the piece that I didn't give
myself enough time. I went straight into doing
instead of being. And I crashed nine months later
last year. And it all just came crashing down
to me for me to just actually feel the grief,
the loss of, you know, the empty calendars. Suddenly
nobody wants your opinion anymore. You don't
need to approve anything. Right. There's a lot
to be said when you are really killing it in
the workplace. And you are needed. You are valued.
Your opinion matters. People want to know what
you say. The media wants to talk to you, right?
It opens doors to any meetings. And then suddenly
all of that is gone. And what? As human beings,
we're just expected to like, because anytime
I write about it, a lot of the comments will
say, oh, but the best is still ahead of you.
Or, you know, we are so quick to pivot. and we
don't give ourselves enough time to experience
the quake yeah and so i wanted to find a word
to say like oh what's this thing that just like
rips you apart and questions your whole identity
again it doesn't mean there's no goodness in
it but so often we want to flip the page so quickly
to say well you should be grateful for all these
things and then move on yeah so um i want to
try and embrace that piece, which is my biggest
learning last year. And then hopefully with so
many companies now restructuring and people losing
jobs, et cetera, just give people a term that.
hopefully they can identify with yeah because
I think a lot of women especially if you did
start working you know straight out of uni from
your early 20s onwards your identity is built
into that career you know that is then who you
become like people like oh you know you've done
this for so long that is you and I guess you
do need that time to come to terms with it okay
that was me I am now shifting into something
else and I guess are you then finding out who
you are, how do you find out who you are? Like
once you get to that point of pivot, how do you
know who you need to be or who you actually are
right now? Because I guess maybe it's not a future
thing, but more of a being in the present. You
know, how do you realize that who is this person
that I am meant to be or am? Yeah. So the trigger
for that was that, you know, I've always wanted
to be CEO since the age of nine. I was reading.
business magazines and I'm like that's going
to be me someday right and then I got there and
it wasn't the view that I thought it was going
to be so I think that's the trigger point for
me and I was in a very privileged position although
I worked fucking hard to get there to be able
to take an exit with a financial payout yeah
which now gives me the runway I want to recognize
not a lot of people will have that opportunity
Also, I don't have kids who are very expensive
in Singapore. Fucking expensive. Man, I'd be
a lot richer if I didn't have those three. If
I have kids, maybe we won't be having this conversation
and I'd be still slogging in corporate. So that
was the trigger. Then it all happened in a matter
of six weeks. I find out in a therapy session
with our therapist, with my ex -husband, that
he did some things. And then I decided, OK, enough.
I was also not feeling it. And it just gave me
a reason. And then I signed my papers to leave.
So all in a matter of six weeks, I went to Canada,
took all my stuff, came back to Singapore and
then went to New Zealand and then went through
all that stages. You know, people were like,
Happy New Year. I'm like, fuck New Year. Why
are people so happy? Yeah, I'm in it right now.
So I'm quaking. Please let me be here. So for
me, it was like two things happening at once.
Wow. The separation and then the separation from
the company. So I went to therapy and I did the
Hoffman process. The breathing? Is that the breathing?
No. Different. That's Wim Hof. Okay. I was like,
close. Also not a bad idea, but yes. It's deep
psychotherapy work for a week. You got to check
in all devices. etc um and the first part of
Hoffman is all about negative love patterns that
you learn from mom and dad yeah so then I continued
therapy and to answer your question I guess it
took me about maybe 12 months or so but I believe
in that 12 months I met more of myself than I
have for my entire life so far so I think that
is the piece like your question is how I think
it is to go meet yourself. For me, that was done
through therapy and stillness, not doing anything,
which is a really difficult thing to do when
you're always doing. It's that whole, everyone
always says, you know, it's the, it's being in
an uncomfortable situation. So for you always
doing is your default position. And then I guess
when you have to come back and do nothing, that's
when you realize and you, I guess, find what
you are looking for exactly being uncomfortable
i think that's a great question like what is
the more uncomfortable thing to do yeah yeah
as long as you're not committing a crime or anything
right like that is the answer like it was more
uncomfortable for me to sit still yeah and i
think you know so so career quake is going to
be your first book relationship quake might be
your second book right because i think what you
just asked applies to a lot of women going through
patterns of, you know, situations of divorce
and separation where it's like, is it too, is
it worse for you to stay in this relationship
than to go? Yes. Yes. Because divorce is hard.
I've been through a divorce myself. It's very
hard, but there is a point. Yeah. Where you have
to say, is it better to stay or to go? Yeah.
And I think your heart knows that answer. Yeah.
I think it's more difficult when you have children.
Yeah. Yeah. Luckily, those kids are not his.
That dude, you know, wish him the best. But yeah,
my current husband is luckily the father of the
kids. OK. OK. Yeah. It is because the easier
thing is to stay. It is. It often is, you know,
until it isn't. You know, it's one of those things.
And when you were mentioning about career quakes
being kind of like, like, who are you now without
the career? I do think that a lot of women in
their 40s and then more generally, I'd say in
their 50s, go through that with empty nester
syndrome when the kids grow up and get out. Oh,
yes. And if you've been particularly if you've
been a full time parent, it's like, where do
I? what do I do? Like, it's not, you know, it's
not that people aren't inviting you to meetings.
It's that your house is quiet. Yes. And if you
have a spouse, it's like, oh, hello. Yeah. You
meet that person again. You're like, oh, you
are still here? Yes. Hope I still like you? Yes.
Because this is the thing, because everyone,
like, I guess in different situations, your personality
is going to change. Your priorities are going
to change. Where before your priority were your
kids or your job, all of a sudden that's not
a priority anymore. And you're like, huh. what
am I going to do? Yes. And I think with a lot
of women, it is the doing, because I think as
women, you are constantly doing, whether you're
working or, you know, raising kids or whatever
it is, there's always a do. There's never the
not do. Yeah, the downtime. Yes. I always say
I imagine a world where there's downtime. I can't
imagine how many decades that is away from me.
My youngest is one. So I just like restarted
the whole thing. So we're here for a while in
the doing. I can tell you one of the weirdest
things though. So obviously my kids are a little
bit older than yours. Yesterday we watched TV
in Sunday afternoon. That never happens. I was
like, wow. In silence? As in the kids were downstairs.
No one else was screaming, murdering, hurting
each other. The kids were downstairs doing their
own thing. And we're like, huh, we're actually
watching TV on a Sunday afternoon. You mean you
and Amin were watching TV as adults? As adults.
Oh, I don't know when that, I can't even fathom
what you're saying. That's just a weird situation.
The kids were watching TV quietly without hurting
each other. No, no, no, no, no, no. We still
don't have that. It was me and Amin watching
an adult program. Like, what was it? The Rookie
on Netflix without the kids. Interfering. Living
her best life right here. Oh, yeah. Having a
cup of tea. That was too hot. Oh, wow. Braggart.
So we were talking off air a bit, Uma, about
your own podcast. So we all, you know, disclosure
for those of you watching from Singapore, we
record in the same studio. And your podcast is
called Raw with Uma, which I love, by the way.
So I said first thing was Career Quakes that
I saw on LinkedIn. Second thing that made me
want to get you on here was Raw with Uma because
I was like, this girl, she knows how to just
like chat real, you know, and she's not going
to come in here with like a polished script.
You know, she's going to come in here and tell
us how it is. Has there been any moments in your
podcast? Because it is. Truly unscripted, unfiltered,
honest. Yes. That made you almost, you know,
feel overwhelmed with the vulnerability in that
moment. Yeah. So the way the podcast runs is
that I don't know who the guest is. I love that
concept. Incredible. Wow. I know the moments
like I know they exist before the cameras turn
on and they're coming there to ask questions
and have a dialogue. And the most rawest moment.
It's probably when I did a live show, my first
live show. And this woman came out after eight
years of silence about her invisible disability.
She had a combination of life -threatening diseases
that you cannot see, including lupus. And the
irony was that she worked for a health care provider.
But when she was at the hospital bed, they expected
her. to get on a call, to solve an issue. That's
just one of many examples that she shared. And
that day also happened to be her birthday. So
it was a full circle moment for her to just come
out and talk about everything that happened then.
And I think that is the power of vulnerability.
I think a lot of times, you know, and also there's
this thing about, well, are you oversharing or
not? I think in those moments, I have come to
believe that a lot of our stories are shared,
that we are not alone in them. Right. And I believe
that episode is probably still the most watched
from season one. So that was probably the most
like you could hear a pin drop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Do you think sharing heals? Yes, I believe sharing
heals. I think sharing. I think the question
to ask yourself, like when I write posts on LinkedIn,
you know, there are days where I go like, you
know, am I oversharing? And so I think you should
share if it's a scar, but not if it's a scab.
Oh, I like that, girl. Can you break that down
as an example? Yes. So I think if you are sharing
because you... want to put out there and expect
people to help you i mean that's therapist the
audience didn't sign up to be a therapist yeah
oh yeah but if it's still raw if they if they
if the the wound is still raw yes now it's not
the right time yeah but once you've managed to
heal from it you can then help others with it
you don't have to fully heal okay like i think
if it's Even if the scar is fresh, you can say,
hey, I'm still figuring it out, which is what
I say for all my perimenopause posts because
it's not a full scar yet. You're not through
it. It's a daily scar. Oh, yeah. Right? So I
think that's the difference. But I also don't
want to judge anyone who chooses to share because,
firstly, we started a conversation about women
being invisible so hey you know like if they're
taking a step out there to share like okay go
for it but if you do want to ask yourself the
question if it's over sharing or not i think
like if you're sharing to connect versus sharing
to get help yeah i think the scar versus scab
then that's if you're doing the first then i
think Absolutely. That was that was a topic that
one of our guests, Simone Heng, talked about
on on our show. She basically said that it was
a stranger dumping. Yeah, she just she she couldn't
help herself. But like oversharing for her was
almost like a trauma dump, you know, like she
would. Yeah, she would just, you know, like verbally
just say everything to the point where she was
on a plane. And the lady behind her said. Can
you just stop now? We're trying to sleep and
we know your whole life story. And I guess just
sort of, you know, realizing when is the right
time to... There's a time for therapy and there's
a time for... I love the scar. Like you said,
it can be a fresh scar. Like you said, you don't
have to be... I feel like you, Uma, are the queen
of messy middles. Oh, thanks. You know, with
career... It's like you're... willing to talk
when you're in it. I'm going to hashtag that.
You heard it here first. You are so comfortable
talking about when it is messy and painful and
unpredictable. That is not where everyone's comfy
talking. I think what draws me into your LinkedIn
time and again is what is she in now? What insight
does she have from the inside? Given that, okay,
Queen of Messy Metals. Yes. What are your anchors?
So when things are tumultuous, right, what does
pull you back to kind of that authentic self
that you've now discovered? Yeah, it's very non
-glamorous things. I like it. Go. Saturday morning
walks with my best friend where we tell each
other things that maybe no one else would ever
say to us. There is no friendship tax in our
conversations. I love that. Because I think often
with women, you know, there's a friendship tax,
right? And you want to say that your friends
are the most perfect thing in the world, but
we have a shared understanding that we will always
hold the mirror to each other. And I think it's
also another form of therapy for both of us to
do like, okay, here's how my week went. Here's
the questions I'm asking or here's what I'm really
struggling with. The second thing I think that's
been the most powerful is stillness. And, you
know, it comes randomly to me when suddenly I
have emotions that are unprocessed. And it shows
up in the most random moments. Like there was
one evening I had an amazing dinner with a really
nice friend and I'm on the way home and then
I'm just like upset. And I don't even know where
it's coming from. And before, what I would do
is just get myself to bed and I'll be okay in
the morning. So I decided, okay, I got home and
I just sat on the floor in my living room and
I just cried. And I don't know what I'm crying
about, right? But I'm like, okay, it's here for
a reason. My soul is knocking. I don't know what
it is. And then the next day, I took a walk.
And I think nature does this thing about, you
know, you don't need to impress or do anything.
It has a way of just hugging you when you're
in nature. So that's also my go -to thing. No
nature tests. It's just like get out into nature,
especially like having your feet on the ground,
grounding. And just like sitting on a park bench
or just walking, not listening to anything, no
stimulations. So those are my go -to. Those all
sound lovely. Yeah. And I think, you know, what
you're doing is you're actually doing what's
human. Again, you know, you're being present
with a friend, connecting with somebody, being
real and then getting out there and just being
in the world. And that is something that, again,
will, I guess, bring you back and help you stay
grounded, literally and metaphorically. Yeah.
I learned this 3H from my therapist, which I
found to be helpful because. I am the person
who doesn't know how to ask for help. And so
there was one time I pinged my best friend and
said, hey, are you going to be in later this
evening? And she answers me like two hours later
because she's at the beach. She checks in with
her husband and then replies like, oh, I think
we're going to be in. So then I'm like, can I
come over? So then I go over and then I'm like,
you know, and she's like. Your message has zero
urgency whatsoever. So now we use Simon Sinek's,
do you have eight minutes? When I get there,
my therapist says, look, I think you should tell,
ask them, like, what is it that you need? And
the 3H is, do you want to be held? Do you want
to be heard? Do you want to be helped? And she
says, you can't be helped without first being
held or heard. And so now I have language. So
I'm trying to express that to friends. So I'll
text them and I go, okay, 3 -H, I just want to
be held. And then maybe I want to be heard. And
then maybe I want to be held, but sometimes I
don't want to be held depending on what we're
talking about. Yeah. Talk to me about this, do
you have eight minutes? Is that like a conversation
starter or how does that? Yeah, so Simon Sinek
tells the story of his very good friend who reaches
out to just like, hey, how are you? Hey, how
are you? And he's like, yeah, good, all good.
But that was her way of saying, like, I need
help. But it doesn't come through the messages.
And then he finds out later. And he's like, this
is not working. We need a code. So he says, because
a decent conversation takes about eight minutes
for someone to just relay what's on their mind.
So he says, okay, next time text me and say,
I need eight minutes. That's so cool. yeah because
it's true like when you when you reach out to
someone you know if everyone's like yeah everything's
good you don't then want to turn around and say
well you know something's really shit and something's
going down because how do you bring that how
do you bring that up and using a code like that
is just such a great way to you know say what
you want to say without without it being too
much, I guess. Well, and that's the other thing.
Yeah, I didn't know that it takes about eight
minutes to get into what my editor taught me,
the nut graph of a conversation. It's like you
think, oh, I'm going to have to talk to this
person for an hour or I'm just going to have
to blurt it right out and freak out with no context.
But eight minutes is like a very cozy amount
of time. It's like we all got eight minutes,
especially for a friend. Yes. Especially for
a friend. Well, you've given us, first of all,
so many elements of what I'm about to ask you
in our final question, which is what is your
40s formula? So, again, we have actually like
literally formulaic data from you in terms of
numbers. But I would like to hear more qualitatively,
you know, what are the pieces of advice, the
few kind of nuggets that you can give to women
in our age group looking to thrive through this
decade? Wow. Well, I'm still figuring it out.
What I've discovered so far. is that it's so
important to, if you want, to meet yourself and
whatever vehicles that works best for you. For
me, that's therapy. And I have come to treat
therapy like going to the gym. And I used to
only call my therapist when something happened
instead of, you know, now we meet every two weeks.
regardless if I have something to talk about
or not so whatever medium you want to use to
meet yourself and then I guess just asking yourself
if all dimensions of you are really showing up
in the way that you would like to show up it's
okay if you don't want all of them to show up
but I want all of me to show up so I feel like
I'm in my reinvention stage I believe that the
40s are where you ask all the questions and the
50s is where, you know, apparently life is going
to be really, really amazing. And then I'm looking
at Melinda Gates in 60 and then Oprah at 70.
Yes. And I'm like, yeah. So I'm looking at them
going, okay, that's great. I think 40s is also,
you know, the period of perimenopause for most
women in the world. And this can really throw
Spanner in the works and give you more questions
to doubt yourself. Right. So just remember that
sometimes your hormones are playing a role, a
major role in whatever lens that you're looking
at life at all the questions that you're asking.
So definitely the meet yourself, your health
and your mental state. And I believe I learned
this at the Hoffman process. You know, there's
four parts to us, your physical body. Your logical
mind, that's the one that wants to do, do, do
and be logical. Then your emotional child or
self. So every day that person is different.
Sometimes it's a child. Sometimes it's a five
-year -old Uma that needs something. Sometimes
it's exactly who I am today. Uma 5 .0. Yeah,
three years. The last part is your soul. So if
you think of it as a horse carriage, the horse
is the emotional child. It just wants to go and
play, play with other horses, right? It doesn't
want to be on the leash, right? And then the
rider is the logical self, telling the child
where to go, right? And then the entire carriage
is the body. But the passenger is your soul,
and your soul is telling the rider where to go.
And I think I only found my soul recently. Yeah,
like I didn't know she was there. So now I can
see her on most days. So yeah, I think 40s is
like the best time ever for women. It's the best
and the hardest, I think. Because you're somewhere
where you got maybe some decent money, right?
You've kind of figured out what you like, you
don't like. Then your body is starting to send
you signals that question yourself. But I think
it's the great decade. of being a questionologist
for yourself. And I always say that when I set
New Year's resolutions, or should I say when
I do my end of year letter. Which I love, by
the way. Your end -of -year letter is incredible.
Last year was a tough one. But I always say,
was this a year that asked questions or a year
that answered them? Because typically those things
kind of go one by one. And if you can kind of
look at the year previous, if it was a big question
-asking year, you're probably about to get a
lot of answers, like you said, about your 50s.
And if it was a big answering year, you might
have some stuff questioned up in the next year.
And it's kind of a nice way to ride those waves.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for
being here with us. We are so honored to have
you, Uma, and it's just been a great conversation.
Thank you. Thank you, Uma. Before we go, please
remember to hit subscribe and take a moment to
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We appreciate your time and support. Thank you
for being part of this community. And we'll be
back next week for more empowering conversations
with inspiring guests. Bye. Can I also just run
through your name? Yes. Uma Tana Balasingam.
Yeah. So the last name is Balasingam. It's like
a sing. Balasingam. Balasingam. If you remember
sing. Yeah. Yeah. Balasingam. Yeah. Versus a
gam. Yeah. Gam. Yes. Uma Tana Balasingam. Yes.
Perfect. Okay. Well, not perfect and I'm sure
of it. Okay.