Guys, we have some exciting news. The 40s Formula
is going live on August 14th at the Green Collective
at Funan Mall. We are going to dive deep into
the science, myths, and struggles around sugar
addiction. Breakfast and coffee are on us, thanks
to the generous sponsors, Guzman y Gomez. It's
a small and intimate event with only 15 spots,
so it's first come, first served. Tickets are
only 20 bucks, and that includes breakfast and
$5 towards your purchase at the Green Collective.
Come and join us for a conversation that might
change the way you eat. think and fail what is
the formula for deep lasting friendships in your
40s You might feel young until you go to a club
and then you see a bunch of 20 -year -olds and
you're like, I could be your mum. What was friendship
different for us now? You're figuring out life
at those different stages together and those
are deep -rooted experience, deep -rooted friendships
when you rely on each other. A good friend is
somebody who is your cheerleader. Yes. Who's
happy for you and supports you and the good things
that are going on. This undercurrent of competitiveness
and comparison that is constant and unyielding.
And I did not know how to play the game. I don't
want to play this game. I don't want to fit in
with this situation right now. I don't want to
be competitive and I just want you to be you
and I want to be me. Do you know what I struggle
with is someone who drains your energy but you
don't know why. People who leave you... questioning
yourself and your ability. And those are the
ones I struggle with. That is a real green flag.
If somebody is comfortable enough with you, they're
not seeking your approval all the time. Acceptance
is the biggest thing at this age. Now there are
so many ways to keep in touch with people. It
can get lost, right? Because I'm not messaging,
I'm not phoning. I'm definitely not phoning.
It doesn't matter how many years have gone by.
certain friendships expire and they can be you
know they can come back and you know be reignited
hey hey and welcome to the 40s formula your go
-to place for insightful discussions on navigating
the 40s and thriving in this transformative decade
We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda, two women
that are passionate about exploring the challenges
and adventures that come with turning 40 and
what lies ahead. All right, before we dive into
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We'll drop it in the show notes or you can find
it on our Instagram. The Meat Club, where quality
meets convenience. Today, we're talking all about
female friendship. how it shifts, stretches,
deepens, or sometimes fades as we move through
different seasons of life. We're joined by two
amazing women for this Forsen chat. Back with
us is our first ever podcast guest. Thank you
so much for coming back, Sharina Shroff -Mansharam,
founder of Getting to Happy. And making her 40s
formula debut is Anju Kothra, the brilliant mind
behind SSEW, Seasoned Singapore Expat Women,
one of the most vibrant women's communities here
in Singapore. This one is honest, reflective,
and definitely one to send to your besties or
the friend that you've been meaning to text for
ages. And if you haven't already, don't forget
to hit that subscribe or follow button so you
never miss an episode. And if this conversation
makes you think of someone you love, share the
episode with them and let them know that you're
thinking of them. Also, a big thank you to our
sponsors for supporting this conversation because
without them, we wouldn't be able to have you
here and have the real and necessary chats that
we love having each week. So ladies, the chat
today is open, round -tail format. Anybody can
talk at any time. So nothing to worry about there
in terms of asking for permission. You just go
for it. I would love to know. From your perspective,
how has friendship changed for you now since
you were in your 20s? When I was younger and
in my 20s, I think friendships were easy to find.
We were out a lot. Whether it was your first
job or coming out of university, there were always
more people around me then than now. So I think
being in an environment where you're finding
new friends was much easier. The difference is
that now the opportunities are less, but the
friendships are better. Oh, yeah. Definitely
quality, quantity thing. Yeah, I think that you
find them when you're in your 20s, but the special
ones come kind of later on. It's easy to find
those. Yeah, totally agree. And I think it's
circumstantial as well. In your 20s, you're going
through so many new experiences and you're shifting
through different phases of your life as well.
And when you're older, you tend to be more settled
and you have more responsibilities and you're
busy doing other things. that are taking up your
time. So you're not necessarily mixing all the
time in new clubs, activities, jobs, circles.
And so it's a very different phase. When's the
last time you were all up in the club? Oh my
God. For real, for real. Actually, do you know
what? Last week, last week. You are serious right
now. You are so much cooler than this. I am,
I am. Oh my gosh. I honestly can't recall. It's
been a long time. I honestly cannot recall. Like
a legit club. what it sounds like but I was traveling
so maybe that was yeah I think I went a couple
of years ago in London but it felt weird because
everyone was so young and I felt really out of
place and I think that's the problem now is going
to a club you don't quite feel like you fit in
anymore you might feel young until you go to
a club and then you see a bunch of 20 year olds
and you're like I could be your mum you know
it just doesn't feel right feel the fear and
do it anyway yeah no true story but it's you
know speaking of the club or like you know the
20 year olds bless them or like you know Being
surrounded by people. I always think, like, yeah,
I had more friends in my 20s. But, like, did
I have more friends in my 20s? Or did I just
have more people? I agree with that. Right? Because,
like, basically nowadays I have, like, four people.
I got my husband and my three kids. Like, I have
four people. You know? And Jasmine, okay? I'm
going after me. But, like, you know, if we're
being real. But, like, in your 20s, yeah, it
seems like you have a lot of friends just because
a lot of people do things together. You know,
it's like we used to go to Vegas, right? Very
American. Here we are. And it's like, you know,
we'd take 20 of us and get a bunch of hotel rooms
and that was it. But, like, we're... we friends
yeah like how is friendship different for us
now you know what for me I think it comes down
to what Who are the people who appreciate you
for being you, for the things that you still
need to prioritise without you feeling guilty
about the stuff that you need to do? And I always
find that it's one of those things where you
could not spend any time with somebody for a
while. It could be like a month or so. And then
all of a sudden you meet up again or you send
them a message and it's like nothing's changed.
And I think those are the friendships that you
cherish most is the ones where it's... low maintenance
but high quality often i don't know if you agree
with this um forged through times that you've
spent together right you've gone through rites
of passage and then so you put in the hard work
yeah yeah at that time you have held the hair
back in the toilet and then it's like then we
can all yeah that's true biggest I mean honestly
this is clearly a vibrant friendship memory yeah
but no you're right it's forged in hard times
whether it's school and you're growing together
or university or you know you're hanging out
in the clubs literally going through that phase
of life together or your first job or you know
you're you're figuring out life at those different
stages together and those are deep rooted experience
deep rooted friendships when you rely on each
other and then i think yes you grow up and you
move around you know we're all expats here yes
you break those close physical ties but you can't
break those bonds yeah i think you hit the nail
on the head there there's there's something special
about the people you grow with you're right you
your roots become intertwined and so it doesn't
matter where you are you know you see those um
those uh memes or those necklaces it's like you
know sisters like far apart completely one of
those things and you're right you know it is
all about the the memories and and their times
you've shared yeah the challenge is then how
much do you still maintain those or do you need
to maintain those or do you want to maintain
those and I think you know as long as you're
able like you say just to pick up the phone in
the middle of the night or or call on them when
something's going on then it's still a relationship
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also the new app. One of the things I always
say and I really feel like I struggle with is...
making new friends and I tell you why because
I feel like I don't have enough time right now
to spend with the people I genuinely want to
spend time with like my old friends and then
trying to incorporate new friendships into it
that feels like a big struggle does anyone else
feel the same way I agree with that but I also
think it comes from your own personal development
okay like i think in i think in my 20s i was
just a yes person yeah you know i was trying
to figure out myself so if someone said let's
hang out let's do this okay do i really like
that person no it doesn't matter just do it just
yes and now as you as i've aged and i know myself
better i know when i want to say no so if i you
know i might have said no to the same person
in my 20s all right now as i've grown i have
the conviction to say i i want to hang out i
don't or you um add value or you don't i think
in my 20s was much harder for us to discern who
who we wanted in our lives and who we didn't.
Yeah, because there's always that FOMO issue,
isn't there? It's like, do I want to miss out?
If I don't go, you know, is something going to
happen that might be the best thing ever? I think
people are still suffering from FOMO, even in
their 40s and 50s. You're so right. And I feel
like that has been the biggest change to my friendships.
It's not so much like who I'm friends with or
what I look for in a friend. It's like the type
of environments that I'm willing to participate
in for friendship. So, you know, I coach a lot
of clients in fitness and nutrition and a recurring
issue you is always like oh like I'm really trying
to you know be on top of my protein and limit
my alcohol intake but my girlfriends want to
go to brunch you know and they want to do it
with us first of all find more boring friends
there's your first tip okay find the fit people
and go to what they're doing but really it's
like that it's like my boundaries are more now
about like what environments I want to find myself
in and then that kind of by default does curate
the friend group a little bit yeah that's how
you find your tribe Right. You hang out more
and more, not just spending time with them, but
spending more time with more of them. Yes. In
both ways. Yes, both ways. You are a mirror.
The people around you reflect back to you as
well and vice versa. It's who you surround yourself
with and how you build your habits and create
a better you. It has to be reciprocal. So I think
there is a lot of that of, you know, choose who
you want to hang out with. Set your boundaries.
Is that working for me? Is that not working for
me? And where do I want to go with this? Do I
want to hang out with them more or not? And if
not, then that's kind of OK. You're being true
to yourself. But I think in your 40s, you can.
It's much easier to be true to yourself. It is.
You know, there's not a lot of pressure versus
when you're in your 20s. You're still trying
to figure out yourself. Or accept yourself. For
me, it was acceptance or loving myself enough
to then find the right friendships. And there
was an interesting post, actually, on the SSEW
Facebook group. But there was a lady saying that
she can't seem to find her tribe, her people.
I saw that. Yeah. And I didn't get through the
comments, but how do people find their tribe
in their 40s? Like, what do you think would be
the way to move forward to find the people, especially
if you've moved to a different country? Because,
you know, like you said, we're all expats here.
And we have to find a new tribe, whether we came
in our 20s. our 30s or 40s and it can be hard
so how do we find our tribe in the 40s what would
you do like what steps would you take I mean
it's a bit like a needle in a haystack isn't
it you you land somewhere new and you've got
a huge population to get to know like where do
you start right so I think it's about whittling
it down and so if you can find people that you
connect with whether it's through an activity
it's a bit like dating isn't it where do you
go to find people that you like yeah you you
have to relate them On different levels. So is
it through an activity? Is it through an exercise
class, a mindfulness, kind of, you know, a spiritual
vibe? The great thing about our community at
SSEW is that it is full of like -minded women.
We're seasoned. We've been here for a long time.
So again, you're whittling down all those people
who have just arrived and might not be staying
here for that long. And therefore, you're not
going to make a long -term friendship out of
them. So I think it's heading to the right spaces
and places. First of all, and then investing
your time and energy and you get out of it as
much as you put in. If you're not going to show
up to events, then how are you going to meet
people? If you're not going to comment and you're
always just going to lurk, you're never going
to get replies and forge relationships through
that way. So I think it's a question of showing
up, but showing up in the right places. Yeah.
And I would agree that, you know, showing up
in the right places for sure. And it's like,
no. who you are so for me if I was going to well
I do do this so perfect example like any city
I travel to I go to CrossFit like CrossFit is
international so like I go to CrossFit Munich
when I'm in Munich and I go to CrossFit Taiwan
when I'm in Taipei and it's like I go to that
community I know at some level that I will find
people that have at least one shared interest
with me. And then the act of suffering together,
which is, you know, by the way, all my fellow
CrossFitters listening, you know, you lie in
each other's sweat pile for a while and guess
what? You're buddies, you know? So I think if
you know really deeply what your identity is
and then you seek out groups that are, you know,
based on that, like you'll never falter. Like,
you know, you could always have at least a friend
if you know yourself really well. I was going
to say that a lot of people that come to me as
a life coach, even in their 40s or their 50s,
they're trying to find their tribe or they're
trying to understand why certain relationships
are not working out or why a friend for 10 years
is not their friend anymore. And a lot of it
is... Yes, I like what you said, Anju, because
you literally look after this entire group of
women. On a personal level, sometimes if you
don't know yourself well enough, or if you're
not comfortable in your own skin, in your own
home, returning back to your partner, or not
partner, or your children, and you're not okay.
then what you're going to seek is also not going
to be right. And then those friendships are going
to be so much harder to organically cultivate
and grow because you're not in that right place.
They're going to feel inauthentic because you're
like, that's not actually me. Yeah, because you're
like, oh, I like that person. I like what they
do. But maybe that's not your vibe. Maybe they
don't relate back to you. Then you get upset
or you're not sure about yourself. And then you
have self -doubt and you're like, what's wrong
with me? So I think that first step, too, is
like, make sure that you yourself are. All the
puzzle pieces are fit together so that you go
out there and you're not going to break apart.
Oh, I love that. It's almost like you need to
love yourself first. And know yourself. And know
yourself. And then you can share that with others.
I think that's brilliant. And I think that's
advice that a lot of people need to take on board.
Have you ever had to drop a friend? Whether on
the basis of in your personal life. Do you mind
sharing? Yeah, no. I was thinking through this
question earlier. Okay, good. So this is not
a shock. But I don't know. normally do this because
I'm a very much a yes person and I'll take it
I'll take it I'll take and the more the merrier
you know fill my cup sounds great But I did have
someone that just drained me. And as I was thinking
about this question, I was actually thinking
back to, like, what was I going through in my
own life? And I was pregnant, actually, with
my second, my son. And I couldn't take on any
more of my friend's baggage. Girl, pregnant or
not, anybody got time. But as a friend, you feel,
I would do that for a friend. She was a friend,
many years of friendship. And I'll always be
there. That's the definition of friendship, right?
No matter what, you're there for their highs
and their lows. But I couldn't. carry it anymore
and i've never done that i've only done it twice
in my life um and i said i can't and i'm sorry
and looking back at it now in over 10 years ago
that person had to figure out who they were and
they kept trying to come whether it was to me
or to other people and trying to figure it out
and we couldn't help or i couldn't help So and
I know that this person now has evolved. I've
seen it from a distance. I'm really happy and
I'm really, you know, and I think that that chance
to reconnect. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It can happen
because that person has evolved. Yes. You push
a little baby bird out of the nest and she flew.
Yes. So great. That is literally the best possible
outcome for her and for you, honestly. Yes. Because
really taking on other people's baggage is just
again, you know, I want to talk about things
we cannot do in our 40s. Yes. Taking on other
people's baggage. Cannot. Nah. No time. No. Yeah.
And like you said, there's not enough time for
your own family and the friends that you do have.
Did you have a big blowout when that sort of
became apparent? No, it wasn't a big blowout,
but it was a very, this was a very conscious
conversation of, I'm really sorry. I don't think
I can do this. It felt like a breakup. Yeah,
I was going to say, it sounds like. Traumatic.
Yeah. No, no, no. It actually sounds like a really
nice way. to let go because i feel like when
it comes to friendships it's almost like a ghosting
like you just stop talking yeah yeah or there's
that big like I don't like, I don't know. I would
love a blowout story. Does anyone have any like,
like where you literally got into it and then
stopped? Cause I hear about this actually from
clients a lot. Like, Oh, you know, I don't talk
to my sister anymore because we had a big blowout
10 years ago at Thanksgiving. That was it. I've
never had like, I feel like I've had one blowout
and it's, it's weird because now that I think
about it, it wasn't it. So it was weird. And
we were actually much younger. So I was in my
twenties and she was my. best best friend that
to the point where you know we in fact I actually
get a bit sad thinking about this because we
were so close we spent a lot of time together
every night we'd be messaging then we went to
separate unis and I think growing up in school
we had a very similar upbringing and we were
the same and then I went to university but I
managed to live out so I was away from the norm
she's had to stay home so then we kind of had
a different outlook on the things that we did
Like, you know, being Indian. When you say live
out, you got to live at school. Yeah. As in I
wasn't living with my family anymore. She still
had, you probably won't understand this this
much, but I think you too will. And being brown
person, you've got a lot of family responsibilities
and a lot of, there's a lot of things where you
have to keep in mind that, you know, what will
people think? There's like all of this sort of
stuff. And I think she felt, maybe she felt disconnected.
Maybe she felt there was a lot going on. And
at the time we had a little bit of, I guess,
a separation in our lives and what we were doing.
And I remember it was really random because I
was in a good place in my life. I had met Amin.
We had just started dating and everything was
great. And she had just gone through a breakup.
So two very different places in our life. And
I remember sending this. It was really stupid,
actually, if you think about it. It was a, what
are those, chain letters. It was like an email
chain letter that got forwarded to me. So I forwarded
it on to her. And she went absolutely ballistic.
Like, how dare you send it to me? You know, like
one of those things. And I was like, whoa, that's
a bit of an overreaction. But basically, we just
stopped talking from that point on. And now we
do chat every now and again. You know, it's okay.
But it's never been the same as it was. Now that
I think about it, it wasn't the chain letter,
even though it felt like it was the chain letter
at the time. It was because we were in different
aspects and in different areas and different
times of our lives. And, you know, where I might
have been like, oh, this guy is amazing, blah,
blah, blah, blah. She's just broken up with somebody
and she's feeling like, oh, you're, you know,
throwing it in my face. Which I hope I wasn't
doing. Maybe I was. I don't know. Maybe that's
how it came across. But obviously I was happy
and I wanted to share it with my friend. But
she was obviously sad and she didn't want to
hear it. So, you know, that was my story. I think
that's a really important factor in female friendships
is competition and comparing. Yes. We must talk
about this. You know, I think that's what...
probably what was going on for her she was feeling
a deep wound and you know comparing herself her
life to you and i think as you get older um coming
back to what you were saying sharina about understanding
yourself knowing yourself you go through so many
different things in life that let you learn lessons
about yourself and you come to a place of acceptance
and understanding and balance hopefully if you
do the work and you know work through those things
that lets you not compare yourself to other people
when you're older and that hopefully shouldn't
be a part of your friendships anymore because
A good friend is somebody who is your cheerleader.
Yes. Happy for you and supports you and the good
things that are going on. And maybe obviously
she wasn't able to do that at that point in life.
But as you get older. and you're more centered
even though that may be going on for you in your
life hopefully you're at a point where you're
able to cheer your friend on and i think maybe
like now that i sort of go back and look at it
and had we have been older maybe it could have
been a conversation like you had where you know
i'm really happy for you but i really don't want
to hear about this great guy that you met you
know and i think it's like the pregnancy thing
oh yes it's like women who are going through
fertility struggles and you know and you're not
like do you have to hide your family from them
or or is it their Responsibility to then say,
hey, I need a little break from you because I
can't look at this content right now. Communication,
right? You've got to be okay receiving it and
also saying it. That's how you do that. Big blowouts,
it's going to cause pain and trauma. Even a serious
conversation is hard. It's how you're going to
deliver that. I grew up with an older brother
and all male cousins. The only female around
in terms of family was my mom. And so she was
never competing with me. And so when I got to
college, when I got to uni, that was the first
time. And I joined a sorority. Sorry, that was
Barry the Leader. So American. I'm the most American
American. So I joined a sorority, a big classic
one like you would see on TV. In fact, the movie
Animal House was made about my college. So that
movie, that Greek life environment, that was
my college. All I'm thinking of is, what was
that? uh play buddy movie oh um i know what you
mean house bunny house bunny again that's like
the extreme version but let's just say you get
what i'm talking about right so i went from you
know completely kind of you know masculine norms
of friendship let's say you know and like i was
really close to my brother and stuff like that
to being in this hyper feminized environment
at a time where we were all still hormonally
and you know prefrontal cortex developing and
alcohol and We all lived in a house together.
There was a hundred of us living in a house together.
And that, my friends, is a crash course in female
comparison, dynamics. I don't even know how that
would ever work. It's unreal. I mean, menstrual
cycles obviously are also happening. I mean,
it is real. And then again, add the layer of
the sorority thing where you're being judged
on physical appearance constantly. Constantly.
And not just judged, but meaning like people
want to join your group based on how you look
or not join your group based on how you dress.
Oh my God. Unreal. We don't have this in UK universities,
do we? No. Thankfully. Through that is where
I learned about what we were just talking about,
this undercurrent of competitiveness and comparison
that is constant and unyielding. And I did not
know how to play the game. I have to be honest
with you. So it was really hard for me in the
beginning. Adapted. So you learned to play the
game or you just ignored the game? Learned to
play the game. And then through that, realize
I don't love the game. Not so much a game for
me. You know, I could not imagine a more boring
setting than sitting around with a bunch of people
talking about our exercise, diet habits, and
body weights, and what our weight on the scale,
and just... You're like, tell me your barbell
weight. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, what are
we going to eat? It's the part where... Yeah,
yeah. I mean, I just, that whole thing, you know,
the common topics of conversation, I think, that
was a... eye -opener for me because can you imagine
my brother and my cousins never once asked me
what my weight was but I can't even imagine even
if you were totally secure as a young woman to
be in an environment with a hundred even if you're
so secure and happy with who you are and confident
it's got you questioning it would still be very
hard okay I have to share one thing and again
this is like not about the sorority thing but
this is I think for people who have not been
in sororities this will blow your mind so for
sorority recruitment which is the important thing
that's when you get the girls to join right We
had to wear matching outfits. That in itself
is not crazy. We wear matching outfits all the
time. First of all, I will match with anyone.
If you just ask me, I'll match with you. But
we had a thing called dress checks where you
had to put on your version of the matching outfit
and a group of your peers, you'd have to walk
in in the outfit, do a turn. And they would have
to assess if that was an adequate version of
the outfit, a .k .a. did it fit? Did it flatter?
Was it trendy? Was it the right brands? Were
your panty lines showing? Do I have to translate
that for a Gen Z audience? So panty lines are
these things. Anyway, but all that stuff. And
then you could be sent away. to have to change
it if it wasn't up to standard. How humiliating.
That's a world that exists. Anyway. That sounds
awful. Big aside. Well, hopefully, you know,
when you're older, bringing it back to the current
day, when you're 40 plus, hopefully you're in
a place where you can recognize that in other
people. And you can make those decisions. Absolutely.
As to, I don't want to play this game. I don't
want to fit in with this situation right now.
I don't want to be competitive. And I just want
you to be you and I want to be me. Right? Yes.
Amazing. So what are some of the red flags for
female friendships? Like what are the things
that would keep you away from someone? So like
for sure for me it would be that hyper -competitiveness.
I'd be like, I'm out of your game. Me too. No
worries. Like what else is like a red flag for
you guys? Do you know what I struggle with is
someone who's... who drains your energy but you
don't know why like I've had I've had some friends
who you know you hang out with them and you know
sometimes you'll hang out with somebody and afterwards
you'll feel like oh cup full that was amazing
but there are other people who leave you questioning
yourself and your ability yeah and those are
the ones I struggle with yeah fair because you
know I'll be like oh I'm all good I'm all happy
then I'll have a chat with somebody and I'm like
oh my god I'm not good enough I feel like I haven't
achieved as much as like yeah and Those are red
flags for me. Like how do they make you feel
after the conversation? If you're open and sharing
with somebody and they're just not really going
there. Got it. They're still guarded. They're
still, you know, keeping their cards close to
their chest. I think that's a real red flag.
It's not a two -way street. I feel like we get
that a lot in expat life. Yeah. You know, there's
that like expat layer that you crack through
with people and then it's like then we can actually
chat. Yeah. You know, like once we get through
that. How about green flags? What is stuff when
you meet somebody, like... I'll share our meet
cute. So when Jasmine and I met, so Jasmine approached
me for a coffee and I was like, for sure. And
we met and I mean, it couldn't instantly, first
of all, we knew each other was real, like just
little signals, you know, like the, obviously
the slang we use, we both drop F -bombs all the
time. We're both wearing our gym clothes. We,
you know, nobody's overly made up. Like today,
today we are. Yeah. Okay. But like, you know,
it was like, it was an instant kind of setting
of realness. And then, you know, we just genuinely
had so much in common. So the green flag for
me is that immediate sense that this person is
not putting on a show for me. Because I can stand
that. And again, in the expat life, that does
happen quite a bit. Yeah, a lot. A lot of it's
about appearances. I would say if somebody is
candid with their advice to me. You know, if
I bring a problem to the table, I'm like, well,
this happened and this is what I think about
it. I don't want somebody just to agree with
me and be a yes man. And yes, yes, yes, you're
so right. I totally agree. Yes, yes, yes. I think
that real talk is, no, actually, have you thought
about it from this angle? No, actually, I'm not
sure I agree with you on that. this is how I
would think about it I think that has so much
strength and maybe that's something that only
those who are really really close to you might
feel comfortable you know your your parents your
partner you know your real real bestie but I
think that is a real green flag if somebody is
comfortable enough with you that they're not
seeking your approval all the time yeah yeah
so true I think it's acceptance for me like acceptance
is the biggest thing at this age like you accept
me for things that I don't do well, things that
I do well, my days that I look like crap, the
days that I look okay. And I think what I've
noticed, and this is like from clients that are
coming in or just talk, you know, in this 40s
and 50s, this age group with women in Singapore
is so much competitiveness for so much unhappiness
for someone else. And, you know, I hate the thing
about social media that, you know, someone will
say, did you see what someone put up on social
media? And I'm like, yes, they are traveling
the world. And they're like. Oh, but does she
have to put it up? I'm like, she could put up
something every minute of the day. But if you're
not okay, you're the problem. Yes. That is a
you problem. That is a you problem. Not a her
problem. You know, like, and if someone puts
up something sad, it's your choice to reach out.
Yes. You don't have to victimize, you don't have
to make them look like they're, you know, it's,
if they do it every single day, okay, that's
their prerogative. You have a choice to comment
or not comment or to reach out or not to reach
out, no matter how close they are. That's their
choice to put up into the universe. But I think
the happiness for someone else, the not comparing
or not wanting something else makes you a better
person and you're going to be happy when you
see people putting up something or doing something
great, say, good job. Say, I like what you did.
Or if you don't want to comment on social media,
take it offline and send a message like, I just
saw your photo and you look great. Or I saw your
kid achieve this. How awesome. I'm happy for
you. But if you're not happy with yourself. you
will never be able to say to someone else. There's
always that projection, isn't there? It's like
usually when something triggers you, it's because
it's something about you rather than something
about them. But they don't see that judgment.
They're like, that person is doing that. Look
at what they are doing wrong. Yes, it's the judgment.
It's the judgment and the comparison of why would
they do that? Why would they put that up? Why
are they wearing this? But if they have, I mean,
they can do whatever they want. But you, hi,
it's you, hi. Why is that an issue for you? And
even the social media itself. So I had a girlfriend,
you know, be upset with me because of the fact
that I do share on social media. I mean, so she's
like, I had to find it from your social media
first. Oh, good, yes. And this is pregnancy news,
pregnancy news. And I was like, girlfriend. I
was like, if I had time to individually pick
up the phone. This is my third, right? So I was
like, first of all, pregnancy news, not big news.
Yes, well, I'm pregnant again. But, like, secondly,
I was like, girl, like, I love you, but, like,
please do not mistake the fact that I didn't
tell you personally about this pregnancy news
the moment before I posted. Yeah, yeah. First
of all, it's my news. Yeah. If we're being serious,
right? Yeah, you can do it any way you want.
Yeah. And second of all, it's like I wanted everyone
to know at the same time. That actually is why
I do it that way, other than my family. I want
everyone to know at the same time because I want
to share that news equally among all friends.
So it's quite intentional that I did that. But
she personally felt slighted because she doesn't
share that way on social media. Right. That's
not how she releases her news. Right. She reaches
out to us exactly. She'll send a message personally.
Right. So you do you. You do you, girl. And I'm
going to be over here making my hilarious reel,
by the way. I think that's a huge pressure in
friendships as well. Other people's expectations.
Yes. right she was expecting to be one of the
first to know because she's one of your best
friends yes yeah but hey i have a lot of good
friends and i want to share my news with a lot
of people and accept that right like if you can
accept your friend for how they do things um
how they live how they dress how they behave,
how they raise their kids. You will love them
for who they are. To me, acceptance is the biggest
word. Like if you love someone for exactly who
they are, you have a very strong friendship.
Because you're not expecting them or expecting
them to show up in a certain way or behave a
certain way. They're crappy one day and they're
kind of off one day and they're kind of super
awesome the next day. It's okay. It's okay. Because
you love them for who they are. And I guess what
you mean and what you've been saying is when
you expect something from somebody else, that's
usually when it's going to lead to disappointment
for you. So, you know, whether that's your best
friend, your boyfriend, your husband, your kids.
Your job, even. Yeah. Expectations mismatch.
Yeah, always. And I always say this to my son
as well. Like, you know, he'll be like, oh, I
wanted to have this payday with so -and -so.
but it was not as good as I thought it was going
to be. And I'm like, yes, because you were expecting.
You know, just go in and just, you know, don't
have any expectations and then just see how it
goes. Yeah. And I think in your 40s and 50s,
you should have less expectations. When you're
young, we want to expect the world. We want everything
to be magical. We're taught that we can get that,
right? Like your first job, first day on the
job is going to be amazing. No, not always. And
then you're making coffee. Oh, your first day
is going to be amazing and magical. You're just
in love. You know he's the one, right? Yeah,
yeah. So we have those, and it's lovely to live
like that in your 20s. Go for it. Dream big.
Fall hard. It's okay. But I think in your 40s
and 50s, we have less expectations, less of that
fancy sparkle, which is okay. It doesn't mean
that life is not as wonderful. It's just that
you're less disappointed. But also I think that
for me, I... turn that on its head if i'm ever
feeling like let's say i don't know there's a
someone's going out for dinner and i wasn't invited
to the group dinner or whatever or there's a
girls trip and oh you know why how come i didn't
make the list for the girls trip i think it's
having the agency when you're older to say I
can make that happen. Why am I feeling disappointed
about this? Hey, I can get my girlfriends together
and let's do a dinner. Let's go on a girls trip.
I think you have to be in the driving seat and
not just always be expecting that this has to
be the best friendship. I can make it the best
friendship according to what that means to me
and us. And I'm happy. in my skin doing my thing
that if i'm seeing someone else you have a dinner
or going on a trip i'm happy yeah yeah i can
maybe have a conversation with a side friend
and be like hey maybe next time i want to come
okay guys that's okay but you know you have to
be okay in the skin i think that what i'm see
what i see the most is just that that skin is
just not theirs even in their 40s So we've talked
a lot about like, you know, what we expect from
friends or don't, you know, not setting expectations
too high and like what other people are doing.
But let's talk a little bit about ourselves as
a friend. So are there things now in our 40s
that you think you could be doing better as a
friend? Like, you know, like I could actually
work on this as a friend. I think I need to be
more of a yes person. So I used to be very much
a yes person. Yes, yes, yes. Want to do something?
Yes. Drink champagne for breakfast? Yes. Want
to go on a ghost trip tomorrow? Yes. And then
I... Went the other way. And now I'm very protective
of when I want to do things. And recently, I
felt like I'm very grateful for my life and my
friends. And actually, to acknowledge that gratitude,
I need to be a little bit more of a yes sometimes.
Because as we become older, we're like, okay,
this is what I want to eat. I don't want to eat
something unhealthy. And there's a lot of no's.
And I see my mom is quite a no person. She's
very strict about what she wants to do and when
she wants to go to bed and she's super healthy
and fit. Sounds like me. I am too seen. I am
too seen in this description. But she's like
that and it's commendable. She looks fantastic
and she has great health and all that. But I
want to make sure that I say yes even when...
I want to say no. So I think to be a better friend,
I should say yes more often. That's my thing.
So sometimes I have to remind myself and I go,
no, Srinath, just say yes. Nothing will happen.
No one will get hurt. You know, you won't die
if you have the pizza instead of, you know, the
salad. And you want the pizza. So saying yes
would be my thing. I love that, actually. I do.
I think that's such a great way to look at things.
Yeah, and like you said, and seeing it kind of
as actually a full circle. Like you used to just
blindly say yes, then you're like staunchly saying
no, and then you're like, but I could say yes.
Like nothing will happen. I think for me, it's
finding the different ways to connect with certain
friends. I have a lot of friends who are back
in England, the time zones and their things going
on in their families. I think to maintain a good
friendship, it's finding the MO. How does this
work? Is it that I'm going to call them once
a month and make it my walk and talk once a month
and block out that whole evening and just do
a two -hour, three -hour blast out? Is it that
actually I'm going to get a few friends together
who are common and we're going to just schedule
in once a... fortnight a video call or something
and we all just catch up together or is this
a text chat and this is just how we're gonna
be right i think quite often now there are so
many ways to keep in touch with people it can
get lost yeah right because i'm not messaging
i'm not phoning i'm definitely not phoning and
i might see them in person you know once in a
blue moon or once a year when we go back or something
but what modality works best for which friend
and I think I've got a friend in mind who I need
to work on with she's in Melbourne her name's
Emily Emily I'm going to send this to you I'm
thinking of you she had a baby quite a while
ago and I just never really figured out like
when's a good time for us to actually she's got
her you know up to her eyeballs in it she was
working a really great job that she has and just
no time you know what it's like with newborns
there's just never the right time and we tried
you know oh can I ring you now how about tomorrow
and she like maybe just like try and I didn't
want to get in the way of all the other stuff
and we tried for a bit but actually didn't so
I think now it's been a little while and hopefully
that you know she's in a routine and got things
figured out and now we can figure out what's
the MO is it is it a text chat when you're you
know maybe it's late at night for me and hubby's
asleep in bed next to me but I can message for
example or is it a video call or a whatever you
know Do you know something that I do, which we
say, get off your phone, don't spend so much
time on your phone, right? And there are moments
where we're doing absolute nonsense. I'll pick
up my phone and I'll go through WhatsApp. And
it's one of the things that I write in my, we've
done this together, getting to happy, which is
my box set of cards to live a happier life. And
one of the cards is relationship repair. And,
you know, it's not that you have to fix it, but
you just want to, maybe you can't fix that video
call. I have a friend that's in New York and
we just can't, she just has such a busy life
with the kids. I just go through my WhatsApp,
so if I have 10 minutes or whatever I'm doing,
and I'll just scroll, and I'm like, oh, have
a message to that friend. And I'll be like, oh,
I saw you had a trip on social media. It looked
great. I hope you're well. That's it. Or someone
else, how's work going? Or someone, you know,
whoever, my cousin. How's my niece? How's my
nephew? Whatever it may be. And it's just one
line. And that... Sometimes feels enough. Yes.
Actually, it's funny you should bring those cards
up because I have been so inspired by the work
that we did together around those cards. So many
different ways. It's very simple inspirations
to live a better life. But one of the things
that I do off the back of that is if somebody
crosses my mind, for whatever reason, we all
think about different people for different reasons,
I do just send them a little line. I saw this
and I thought of you. Hey, how's it going? And
I think that is... It's just a little, because
all we want to feel is connected. That's what
balances out that loneliness. Yes, and it just
reestablishes the friendship. And it's, you know,
you're on your phone a lot. We're doing nonsense
on our phone. And if you can change that to just
sending messages, scrolling on your WhatsApp,
don't scroll on Instagram, scroll on WhatsApp,
and just go down the list of people that you
haven't. It's just that. And, you know, I've
had people reach back and go, oh my. my God,
I was having the worst day. I'm just so happy
to hear from you. How are you babe? And you're
like, oh great. And that was it. that's just
that connection made and then like when we asked
you to be on this podcast that was a moment like
that i was so excited i need to stop sending
like instagram videos to people for me that's
my way of saying i'm thinking of you the mean
thing is totally love language i will argue and
you send different memes to different people
oh yeah right so it's like you it's like i know
you so well like only you will find this funny
oh yeah i have a friend who sends me the most
like esoteric crazy stuff but she knows i will
laugh yeah like her and i I only send that stuff
together. Yeah, and I've got a cousin who literally
will only speak to each other through Instagram
me. So I'm like, okay, this works. That's the
basis for a relationship. That's fine. That's
what works for you. You're connected. Exactly.
And you build on that, right? So it's not oblique
when something happens and you say, hey, do you
hear about so -and -so and I'm really sorry about
what happened. You've got some kind of basis.
Yeah. And that's what's really important. For
sure. How about you, though? What do you think
you could do better as a friend? Oh, to be honest,
I think I just need to be more connected. I feel
like right now I feel so time poor that I'm constantly,
you know what it is? I'm constantly on the road.
I feel like a taxi driver. And so I'm going.
from one place to the next place doing 100 million
different things that I'll read a message but
because I'm driving I don't respond to the message
so I feel like I need to set some time and just
go through and respond to all of the messages
because if you go back and have a look I've got
like Sometimes I'll even start typing a message
because I'll be at the red light and then be
like, oh, it's green now. And I've got like a
half written message. And then I'll forget because
my brain is in a million places. But I think
I need to set some time apart and actually reach
out to people and finish those messages and,
you know, answer the questions that I've been
asked. Something that I do that I've learned
over a bit of time is because I had enough of
my brain being in a million different places.
Sorry, I had to do something about that. And
I'm much, much more intentional with what I do
with my time at whatever moment. So I will. Again,
it's kind of like habit stacking, I guess, and
just make sure that there's a period of time
when I only do that. So if I'm going down to
the bus to pick my kids up off the bus, I'll
go 10 minutes earlier. And I'll stand out there
and I'll have 10 minutes of sunshine, which is
not bad for you. Which is amazing. And I'll actually
take my shoes off and I'll ground in the grass
out there for 10 minutes while I'm standing there.
And I will go through my WhatsApps that I have.
Maybe I've started and drafted and haven't sent,
but I've just got 10 minutes to actually think
about it now and be intentional. about it and
another thing that I do when I'm driving around
that is like really cemented my connection is
I'll call my parents yes I've been doing that
driving time is parent time brilliant I don't
drive so I don't have driving time it's parent
time but you know back to like how we connect
with different people I have added a daily to
do item that is message your mom your brother
or your niece so I have to message one of those
three people ideally all of them but at least
one of those people hears from me every single
day because I will not let a day go by without
those three people knowing that like I'm in their
lives you know and they're all they're all in
the US that goes for friendships too right I
think we all know those handful of people who
are super close to you who you invest in and
who it's important just to check in yeah just
to like and I have another thing that I used
to do which was you know this sending someone
something like so I had this box of brownies
from this one company that I would just it was
a standard box it was a certain amount of money
maybe I didn't have time to meet or maybe I didn't
want to have a problem proper conversation, they're
busy, finding the date was just stressful and
then you didn't want to do it anyways. And sometimes
that love language of just sending something,
it was that box of brownies. And I would just
send it and I'm just like thinking of you and
that's it. And that feels amazing. Who doesn't
want brownies? No, first of all, no one does
not want brownies. Whatever the list is with
the brownie list, you can just like add me. I'm
on that one. Tomorrow, tomorrow, Amanda. Has
a friend ever surprised you? And I don't just
literally mean surprise with brownies, although
like that would be, but like done something for
better or for worse that you were like, wow,
I really didn't see it coming. So this is really,
this is really crazy. But this happened recently,
just a few weeks ago. A friend who cut me off
some 22 years ago finally reached out. On what
basis? Both the cutting out and the reaching
out. I want to know the thing and the other thing.
They were just in Singapore. And so they reached
out. After very long, after a very, you know,
not great ending. And it was magical. You know,
like sometimes friendships have years in between.
Decades, sounds like. Decades. And it surprised
the hell out of me. I really learned that it
doesn't matter how many years have gone by. certain
friendships expire and they can be you know they
can come back and you know be reignited and that
people are in your life for a reason and sometimes
they're not there for a certain amount of time
and that's okay you didn't need them yeah Not
after a season. Not after a season, exactly.
And we should be open in our hearts and our minds
to bring people back in. And, you know, there
are some people that are very, you're out of
my life and I'm never going to talk to you again.
And it's so dramatic. And, you know, life is
short. But look, you did a yes. I did a yes.
That was a yes thing, right? To be like, because
you probably could have been like, nah, I'm busy.
You know, like, I'm in Bali this weekend. The
universe looks huge for Singapore. It looks very
unexpected. Just tell everyone you're in Bali.
No one ever questions it. expected but that was
that was very it was very amazing it was just
a few weeks ago so I definitely thought about
that and how so I'm intrigued by this how was
it when you met up did you pick up right where
you were or was it a little bit no Right where?
So then it was enough time. It was like the right
amount of time. Exactly. 22 years to get over
it. It speaks about both of your maturity as
well. And acceptance again. It's okay that you
don't have someone in your life and you don't
have to be so difficult or hard in terms of cutting
people out and never letting them back into your
life. Be open, life is short. Yes, definitely.
How about you, Anju? Any surprises? I think probably
these days I'm the one doing the surprising.
You're the one dropping bombs. Not bombs, but
I am, you know, as we mentioned earlier, Jasmine,
you mentioned you're more protective of your
time and who you spend it with and what you do
and not being drained of your energy. And I think
I'm very mindful of that right now. Anju, I want
to interrupt. Can I ask you a question? Because
you, you know, look after all these women. Hell
yeah. Thousands. I can imagine people just want...
Assume they're your friend. Assume they're your
friend and also just want a piece of you. Yes.
You know, want your time or want your advice.
How do you manage that? Yeah. Sorry to interrupt.
That's a great question. That is such a good
question. You're like mama to all these women
who are just new, no friends, uncertain, depressed,
excited to hang out. How do you deal? I would
say that that's not a realistic picture of how
my life looks, actually. I think our... audience
of really super amazing like -minded women they
pretty much look after themselves they don't
need much mothering or looking after there are
people who do reach out but actually they reach
out to each other in the community all right
more than to me directly and I think that is
really what the community is there for to help
each other and share their breadth of experience
People do reach out and say, hey, I'm going through
a tough time. I'd really like to post about this.
Is that OK? Which I really appreciate. They rarely
actually reach out to me for my personal perspective.
Yes, I do connect with a lot of business people
who might want advice on, you know, is your community
the best way for me to share my business? Or,
you know, that's the kind of strategy thing and
a bit more about. being an experienced person
in singapore i've been here for 18 years now
so the know the lie of the land yeah it's just
like any other job i guess you you field your
emails you know you you set aside time to do
your deep work in the morning and respond to
things more thoughtfully and meaningfully and
then you create events where you can get those
people together and maybe reach out to those
people and say hey you know you're asking about
that a while ago well i'm doing this now and
would you like to come and we can have a chat
there and right you know so i guess i use it
as fuel and inspiration to redirect them to where
might help them best Does that answer the question?
Yeah, totally. I just feel like you're so, you're
very inspiring and people, you know, if they're
new to Singapore are going to just be like. Like,
yeah. Oh, absolutely. I want to know her. I want
to know her. Yeah, she is, you know, to use another
community's name, she is the oracle of all things
Singapore. Like, I would like to know. Yes. I
think that might be trademarked. I don't know.
From the script. Well, gals, you have given us
so much great insight on female friendships.
And I think, you know, the four of us are very
like -minded, but also come from such distinct
backgrounds that I think this was a really fruitful
sharing of the minds. The last thing we must
do, though, because this is the 40s formula.
It is. We must figure out what is the formula
for deep, lasting friendships in your 40s. And
I don't want to, you know, I think you've actually
already offered yours, Sharina, which is acceptance.
Yes. Right? You have to find the tribe that accepts
you. Accept yourself. Know yourself. And then
find people that accept you. And how about you?
Yeah, I would echo those words. I think it really
starts with you. I think you have to know yourself
and go out to the right places to find the right
people that are then going to reflect that back
to you. I'm going to say low maintenance, but
high value. I feel like, you know, you don't
need to expect a lot from other people, but,
you know, it's what people bring to that relationship.
So I feel like something that's... too much in
terms of energy or you know energy draining more
so is something that's is too much for me so
yeah low maintenance is what you're gonna get
with me sorry guys and again I think that's also
why we connect so well and I think for me it's
just you know assume the best in people yeah
you know assume that everyone is coming at you
with positivity the universe is trying to show
you the paths of least resistance like accept
it and and you know don't assume the worst in
people yes yeah i think that's something we can
definitely outgrow in our 40s so well gals thank
you so much for being here with us today we really
really appreciate it i hope that the listeners
get a lot out of this convo and we hope to have
you both again soon like i said with sharina
is our second time visitor and we'd love to have
you back as well thank you so much thank you
oh thank you ladies All right, let's talk about
strength training. It is one of the most powerful
things you can do for your body, especially in
your 40s. It's true. It's not always easy to
build strength, but it's vital. Strength training
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And we'll be back next week for more empowering
conversations with inspiring guests. Bye. I wish
this level of neon existed in other colors. Do
you know what I mean? Like orange, red, but like
neon. Yeah. I'm going to right match. There must
be some particles in it that make that color.
Yes. Well, and you know it because when you look,
you know, when you do that, like it brightens
up again. So it's like, you know that it's got
something in it. When I put on my pink shoes,
I was like, I needed a pink lipstick for it.
But then I changed my shoes because I was like
wearing the wrong color. Yeah, I can't do this
with that. Absolutely not.