Guys, we have some exciting news. The 40s Formula
is going live on August 14th at the Green Collective
at Funan Mall. We are going to dive deep into
the science, myths, and struggles around sugar
addiction. Breakfast and coffee are on us thanks
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a small and intimate event with only 15 spots,
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Come and join us for a conversation that might
change the way you eat. think and feel. So when
we look at Western cultures, they're very individualistic.
But when we look at collectivist cultures, they're
very interdependent and they have values such
as social harmony, reputation of the family,
multi -generational bonds, how you fit in to
the bigger system. You are one person. of many.
You're not fulfilling your own dreams because
you want to fulfill your family's expectations
of you. I did not fulfill my parents' expectations.
That created some conflict. Who am I if I'm not
fulfilling other people's expectations? When
you have that opportunity to ask yourself what
is really important to you, I think you already
start setting some boundaries for yourself. I'm
already running on low battery. I need to do
something for myself, fill my own cup. Some people
do struggle to say, I'm struggling. Yeah, I need
help. Can women really have it all? If it's not
100 % yes, it's a no. and welcome to The 40s
Formula, your go -to place for insightful discussions
on navigating the 40s and thriving in this transformative
decade. We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda,
two women that are passionate about exploring
the challenges and adventures that come with
turning 40 and what lies ahead. Welcome back
to the 40s Formula, the show where we blend science,
soul and a whole lot of sass to help you thrive
in your 40s. I'm your host, Jasmine Dillon, an
Executive Health Strategist at Eat With Jasmine.
And I'm Amanda Lim, Metabolic Health Coach and
Director of Lift Clinic. Each week we explore
what it really takes to feel good, think clearly
and show up as your most powerful self, whether
that's through food, hormones, movement, mindset
or just finally learning how to say no without
feeling like a bad person. If you love honest
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it on our Instagram. The Meat Club, where quality
meets convenience. Today's guest is someone who
embodies reinvention, emotional intelligence
and real talk, Marissa Nasution. You know her
as former MTV VJ and TV host but these days she's
also a trained psychologist, wellness coach and
conscious parenting advocate. She's lived many
lives from red carpets to research papers and
she brings all that wisdom into how she's raising
her daughters, supporting other women and breaking
generational patterns. In this episode, we're
diving into one of the hardest things for women
to do, setting boundaries and learning to say
no without guilt, shame or apologising for having
needs. You're going to want to take notes, grab
yourself some coffee and settle in. So let's
get into it. Hi, Marissa. Hi, thank you so much
for having me today. Oh, we are so excited to
have you here. So before we get going, I want
to know why do us women find it so hard just
to say no? Well, you're starting off with a really
heavily loaded question. I think there's lots
of factors why we women... have a hard time saying
no. And I think one of the things is that we
have so many roles that we play, that we carry
within us. So we're all daughters, we might be
siblings, we might be wives, we might be mothers,
but we also might be entrepreneurs, corporate
career woman, that comes with a lot of responsibilities,
but also a lot of expectations. So when we look
at society, how society has created certain expectations
for us women and how we always try to fulfill
those. That, I think, really drives this internal
pressure that we have to people please, to take
on opportunities or say yes to things that we
initially already know we don't want to say yes
to and how we live our lives. looking to always
fulfill other people's expectation or society's
expectations instead of filling our own cup.
It's really hard, isn't it? And I think the other
element is growing up in Asia, being Asian, you
get this sort of good girl pressure. You know,
you have to listen to your elders. You have to
do what they say and you can't go against what
that is. Do you think that was something that
you struggled with growing up as well? I did.
I always try to explain it in a way because I
have Western roots, but I also have the Eastern
roots. So my mother is Indonesian and my father
is German. And I always find this internal fight
within me. What am I and how do I feel? So, for
example, let's try to see this concept a little
bit from a cultural point of view, right? So
when we look at Western cultures, they're very
individualistic, which means that there's an
emphasis on being independent. So it's really
on cultivating your independent self. But when
we look at collectivist cultures... They're very
interdependent and they have values such as social
harmony, reputation of the family, multi -generational
bonds, and also harmony of the community. So
you see yourself in these collectivist cultures,
predominantly Asian cultures, how you fit in
to the bigger system. You are one person. of
many. Whereas in Western cultures, the focus
is on yourself and how you develop yourself.
When we look at the image of the traditional
good girl. The good girl in an Asian culture
context might be stereotypically the quiet one,
following rules that then can also manifest as
being shy or your belief of being shy, for example,
or your belief of you're not capable of doing
things because it goes against other people's
wishes. You're not fulfilling your own dreams
because you want to fulfill your family's expectations
of you. So it's really hard. how to have this
conversation because there's so many different
angles to look at it. But when I bring it back
to like my own story, I probably can share like
some personal moments where we had this huge
conflict when I was expected to go to university
and... I had my Asian tiger mom giving me the
three job opportunities that I had. You can either
be a lawyer, you can be an engineer, or you can
be a doctor. Of course. You can be anything else.
Doctor has to be on that list. And I think that
many who have Asian parents can empathize with
this conversation. And I said to my mom, actually,
back then when I was like 18 years old, I was
like thinking of becoming a psychologist. And
she's like, no, no, no, that's only for crazy
people. Because there was this huge stigma around
mental health and what it means to be a psychologist.
So I said, okay, I'm going to do something totally
different. And then went into the television
industry. Which is so different. So different.
But I did not fulfill my parents' expectations
of being the firstborn child, going to university,
going down this path that has been laid out for
me already from probably before I was born in
a way. And that created... some conflicts, but
that also fueled probably my inner internal conflict
of who am I if I'm not fulfilling other people's
expectations. So I learned very early on that
to become an independent self, you also need
to be able to do things independently. You need
to earn money at 19. You need to figure out how
to live by yourself and all of these things.
It's funny you brought up the three career paths
because I actually did study law at university.
It was like tick! But you know like one of the
things that was also drilled into me growing
up was oh when you get married you know you're
not just marrying the guy which is like the independent
side you're marrying the whole family and you've
obviously married into an Asian family. Now you
know it's funny because you're right. that when
it comes to asian culture is that whole sort
of wider element and that wider piece um because
it's not just you it's everyone that's right
it's not just you and i think this is also something
that you have to be clear especially when you
are joining forces and joining a family what
are their expectations and I think this is also
a point where maybe many couples don't really
have open conversations about it, especially
when you have two different cultures that come
together, that both sides are very aware. of
the values each side has, how to have a harmonious
relationship, how to have a harmonious multi
-generational family. I think these are all very
important points. Do you live in a multi -generational
home? I do not. I always joke with my husband.
My husband's German as well. So I flew all the
way to Asia. I built a whole life around Asia
just to end up with another German guy. Just
to find yourself a German. Exactly. But we share
the same values. and both of our families don't
live here in Singapore so it's just us who are
here but it was important for us to discuss these
things when we were building our own family our
own small family what kind of family values do
we have and what do we want to pass on to our
children you're a mother of girls two yes the
opposite to me because I've got three boys okay
boys mom but has motherhood challenged you in
how to say no because okay when it comes to the
kids I feel like the only word that comes out
of my mouth is no. But, you know, like, do you
find now that, you know, having to say no to
other things is causing mum guilt or sort of
other feelings being invoked inside of you? When
we look at being parents in general, right, I
feel that most of us will prioritise our children's
needs before our own. Drive them around town
every day. Fill their calendars before we fill
our own. And I wholeheartedly do it out of passion
and out of love and care. And I do enjoy that.
So when I became a mother, it really changed
my life. It changed my life because I got this
opportunity to reprioritize what my purpose is.
what I want this new chapter in my life to look
like so when you have that opportunity to ask
yourself what is really important to you I think
you already start setting some boundaries for
yourself to help them also set these boundaries
so yes I do say no to a lot of things but when
I say no I ask myself why do I say no so it's
either saying no to the children for very safety
related reasons for example but then also saying
no to lots of social things for myself where
I feel like I'm already running on low battery
I need to do something for myself take care of
my self -care do something to fill my own cup
and then I would say no to maybe social gatherings
or like meeting up with people where I feel you
need to make these priorities so if I'm running
on only 20 % I cannot be 100 % to the people
that I want to serve and I want to take care
of. So it's really important. And I think this
is also maybe an invitation for the women listening
to have this conversation with their partners,
because lots of them feel that you have to always
show that you have it together, but you don't.
You don't have to play this mask or this role
all the time. It's important to also have a conversation
with your partner and saying like, I am running
on a short fuse today. You need to step in and
help me and also ask for this help or say, I
need to just get away for a day just to focus
on myself, get a little bit of headspace, get
a little bit like emotional decompression. So
all of these things are really important. And
then you can come back and then you can step
into your role as a mother or your role as a
wife or your role as an entrepreneur. You can
be then much fuller. Yeah, I think that's so
important, that communication element, because
some people do struggle to say, I'm struggling.
Yeah. I need help. And to their own partners.
That's what always is crazy to me, where it's
like the person that could help you the most
and that literally should help you the most because
those kids are half his. Don't ever forget it.
I didn't make them on my own, bro. That's the
person that I find a lot of women struggle with
that boundary the most. And I find this too,
just professionally, right? Thinking about fitness
and nutrition. A lot of times like, oh, you know,
I want to eat healthy, but my husband doesn't
want to. And I'm like, I'm sorry. Shouldn't that
be your number one fan? Isn't that the guy in
your corner, like massaging your shoulder? That's
not the guy that's bringing you down in the ring,
right? So I hear you, girl. It's like that boundary
with your partner I think is a really important
one to work on. It is. And it's in a way because
we think that we have to do it all. When people
say, like, can women really have it all? I always
like to say. Yes, you can have it all, but maybe
not all at the same time. Oh, I love that. So
take the time if you want to focus on your children
whilst they're small, do that. It's okay to not
have a high -flying career, the perfect family
and take care of your fitness. Just do what you
can, but you also need to be fine with it. When
you set yourself unrealistic expectations, you
have to really look. can I fulfill all of these
things on my to -do list in a day? Because if
you can't, you just get demotivated, you feel
low, you question yourself and you like spiral
down. But if you really just take two steps back
and say, hey, what is really my priority here?
What can I do? And then have this conversation
with the partner and say. I can't have a 9 to
7, for example, I cannot have a 9 to 7 p .m.
Which is actually the real office time, isn't
it? Like no one finishes at 5. Exactly. Let's
not say 9 to 5 because it's not 9 to 5. Not in
Singapore, no. Exactly. So if your priority for
the first years of motherhood, for example, really
is to like be there with your children whilst
they're small, then say that and then make it
work. Because I think it is about having this
communication, but also really Set your own expectations
and you don't have to fulfill society's expectation.
You really only need to fulfill what you want
to achieve in your family. And that's so important,
like looking after that circle where you've got
control. Because I think this is the problem.
I think you kind of try to... control every element
and it's just not possible you can't you can't
do it all you will burn out like i've been speaking
about identity burnout because you burn out as
a mom you burn out as being a small brand entrepreneur
maybe you burn out in your finance career trying
to keep it all together one day you will just
like find yourself like in shambles and like
asking why am i doing this why am i having then
Suddenly maybe some health problems and all of
that. It comes together. It's a really holistic
picture to look at. Yeah. You can't just focus
on the one thing. It has to be everything. Amanda,
can we talk about how clean Guzmini Gomez's food
is? Like truly clean, not the it has letters,
so it's healthy kind of clean. Oh, totally. GYG
is on another level. There's no preservatives,
no artificial colors, no weird additives. It
is just proper, real food. I read that they went
through 21 versions of their corn chips before
they found the one. Now that's commitment. And
they fly in their avocados and tomatoes daily
from Australia to Singapore. That is the level
of commitment I want in my food. You can taste
it, whether it's the burritos, the bowls, or
those chipotle -seasoned fries. You just feel
good after eating it. And it's really why my
entire family keeps going back. Clean is the
new healthy, and GYG has been leading that charge
since day one. They've literally reinvented fast
food. Who says it has to be dodgy and deep -fried?
Not on GYG's watch. you know when you think of
these things as silos right okay so this is my
career yeah and this is me as a mother and this
is me as a friend that is definitely not how
it works by the way it's like it's all this big
circle and if you think about like a hoop you
know it's a good but like a flexible hoop you
pull one side like the other one has to go in
a little bit right so it's like if you're really
excelling as a mom like slaying it there all
the time like obviously the the career aspect
is going to pull in a little bit you know but
the circle is still whole yeah And I think that
speaks to what you said about you can have it
all, but maybe not at the same time or not at
the same level. That's all right. Not saying
that if you prioritize your career, you're a
bad parent. Not at all. But it is important that
you know what your priority is and you're aligned
with that. And you go after that, not what somebody
else tells you to do or not what somebody else
expects you to do. And that's, I think, again.
to tie this back in why it's so hard for women
to say no because you think you have to excel
at all all the time but we're not all perfect
and we don't have to be I think that's also like
something very important for women to realize
it's okay to not be perfect yeah one of the tools
I use with my clients is we we look at like your
priorities and we're like right okay you got
a number out of 10 that's basically everything
now you need to tell me how much of each of the
priorities that are important to you, are you
going to assign, you know, that section, that
number two? So if work is six, then you've got
to look at family. You've got to look at your
health. You've got to look at, you know, being
active, your friends, like how much are you then
going to sleep? Like all of these things. How
much are you going to distribute amongst those
things? And then. We've got to look at realistically,
how are you distributing your energy, your time?
Expectations mismatch, right? Right. So your
career has gone from MCVVJ to psychologist. You
know, you've had a massive change and a massive
pivot. Now, obviously, high pressure world. Has
there ever been a time where you had to say no
to an opportunity and people thought you were
absolutely batshit crazy? It was like, how did
you say no to that? How did you turn that down?
Very good question. I pondered on this for a
while. I'm going to say two things. So I had
one opportunity, like when I was straight out
of my master's, where I could have like immediately
went on to do a doctorate, which I would have
loved. I'm really a little nerd inside. So I
would have loved to do that. But it would have
cost me to move to the UK for one and a half
years. And I could have done like one and a half
years here. And that was simply not possible.
It was not worth it to get my whole family and
move to a new country in this phase and stage
that we're in at the moment. Was it crazy to
say no? Probably yes. But at the same time, back
again at priorities, I cannot have everything
at the same time. That will just need to wait
because I have a different priority, which is
now being here with my children and really being
there for them in this early phase of their life.
And maybe when they're teenagers and don't want
to hang out with me anymore, I can do all of
these other things that I just had to put on
the back burner for a while. I'm absolutely okay
with that. And I think that's the most important
thing. regrets because I have other priorities
currently in my life and this is like something
that everybody needs to figure out for themselves
another thing opportunities where I had to say
no this is like in the early 2010s before social
media is what it is today there were in the showbiz
industry opportunities that you could get if
you would probably take on some indecent proposals
by powerful, much older men. Let's say that,
right? So if we all like look at the Me Too movement
and what happened there, that's a real thing.
And I still believe that it is in the entertainment
industry a real thing. So I did have some opportunities
that I shut down that could have advanced my
career. but it was important to figure out what
price would I be paying. And for me, like my
thing that I always like told myself is like,
yes, you could take this to advance your career,
but would you be able to look at yourself in
the mirror every day, knowing that you went against
your gut, your values, the things that you believed
in. And that also helped very early on to find
the strength in your own personality and character
to say no. Too many things. Because if I can
say no to these kind of things that would have
like propelled my entertainment industry career,
then I can say no definitely to lots of smaller
things as well. And it just really helps in building
character. Once you really know your boundaries,
it's important to like know what are my values
that I really don't want to go against. Like
I stand for maybe it's loyalty, maybe it's family,
maybe it's time. So if somebody crosses these
boundaries and pushes them, It helps you to find
that strength within you to say no until here,
but not any further. Say the big no, right? And
then the little no's are easy. As long as the
big one gets known. For you, saying no to those
types of indecent proposals would have been hard
at the time because it's something you're like,
right, I'm starting this career. This is going
to help me. I don't know how many people would,
not that I'm saying I would have, but what I'm
saying is. What are you trying to tell us? No,
for some people that would have been no, because
they would have been like, oh, you know, maybe
I don't know enough. Maybe, you know, if I do
it this once again, the reason I'm bringing this
up is because I'm currently listening to the
PDD trial. So, you know, all of these things
are relevant. Yeah, they're like all playing
on my mind. Like, geez, it's like some of these
people. felt that they couldn't say no. And a
lot of it sometimes comes down to how do they
say no to themselves? Because I guess they don't
know what they want. And maybe at the time, they
felt that there was no other way out of that
situation. Like, do you have any advice for women
or even younger girls who are in a situation?
Like, how can they help themselves and sort of,
you know, and stand up and speak for what they
actually believe in? There is like one saying,
it goes a little bit like this. If it's not a
hundred percent yes, it's a no. We can unpack
the details later. If your body, your, because
it's not just your brain, right? It's your body
is also. emphasizing we are not safe. We are
feeling anxiety. We're nervous about something.
You probably just feel it in your hands or like
with a faster beating heart. So your body is
trying to tell you we are going against values,
our core values, things that we believe in. We
need to get to safety here. And it's hard when
you're in a situation where you need to say no
to something that could jeopardize maybe your
career. progression that could jeopardize maybe
also relationship with your friends, where friends
maybe expect something from you and you have
to say no, because, you know, I cannot do that.
I don't want to. Because usually it's you know
that you don't want to, but you end up saying
yes to something afterwards and then it's not
going to be fun. And you do it usually with resentment.
You're frustrated about it. And that also feels
this negative narrative that you don't have.
I think how to learn to start no is. First of
all, before jumping to your usual yes, because
if you're a people pleaser or you have like that
kind of traits, it comes easy to you to say yes
to everything. Can you take on this extra work?
Yes, sure. Yes, sure. I do it. And you realize,
why did I just say that? I didn't even want to
say that. So introducing a pause to gain awareness
of what is actually going on here. Take a step
back from your routine answers that you would
go to. And really try that in conversations.
Usually I would say it's more about listen and
before, it sounds silly, but before answering,
just think about what you're going to say instead
of just jumping to conclusions here and there.
And you can use that with your friends. Try saying,
no, I had a phase where, especially when I was
like early in Singapore and I've just... Made
some friends, some mom friends, trying to build
connections. I would say yes to everything. Yes
to every play date. Yes to every social gathering.
Although I already knew I did not want to. I
wanted to just be at home, take a rest or be
with my kids or just go even like on date night
with my husband. It was really hard because I
felt like I would be missing out on an opportunity.
You're missing out on a fun night with your friends.
You're having this like formal. most of the times
you realize that you actually didn't miss out
on anything. So just really introduce it in your
daily life before saying no to the big things,
then probably say no to the small things first.
I mean, we have like a crazy reputation in our
circle of friends, my husband and I. So we have
a five -year -old, three -year -old, one -year
-old. We have yet to have a birthday party for
any of them. We don't do it. Because, first of
all, they have not asked for one. They have attended
birthday parties. They're aware they exist. They
themselves have never requested one. And we have
no desire to host a bunch of five, three, and
one -year -olds in our house. So we just don't
do it. And I said, at a certain point, when they
ask and they say, I would like to have a birthday
party, I would like to have these friends invited,
we're happy to do it. We're not like weird ogres.
But it's like, I know. that's saying yes to that,
or let me, creating that experience out of nowhere
because they didn't ask for it, is going to bring
a ton of stress, a ton of financial output, a
ton of commitments into my space that I don't
want. You don't need it. You don't need to. We
don't need it. And they don't need it. We celebrate
their birthdays, by the way. This really makes
us sound like terrible people. We go to Legoland,
you know how we do. But it's like, until they
express that, it's like, then I'm just creating
that for them and really creating that. stress
back for me yeah so what the f honestly you're
so lucky because i have done a birthday party
every single year since i'm one years old and
now i'm like fucking hell this is this is like
so draining it's so hard now it's the back side
of that but you know at one point i've got twins
yeah and at one point we decided to have a double
class party and obviously when it's a double
class party the parents come so we had let's
say 60 kids Plus parents. And I was just everywhere.
In your home? No. I was like, absolutely not.
No. Luckily not in the home. But it was. stressful
now it's like to the twins i say 10 kids that's
five friends each but then you then there's my
son who's gonna be 10 soon and he oh he probably
will be 10 by the time we do this his party has
probably already happened and he's like right
mommy i want to i want a party bus whoa yeah
dang i know he and he's like i want to do this
and i'm just like oh my god how do i now sort
this out because where does a 10 year old's party
bus go to He wants to go to, and I'm sure this
has already happened, and I'm thinking this is
what is going to happen. He wants to go to, what's
the Wet n' Wild in Passeris? Oh, yeah. Wild,
Wild, Wild. Which I always called Wet, Wet, Wild,
and my husband's like, don't say that. Yeah,
he's like, don't say that. It's a different thing.
But isn't that the American version? Isn't there
one in American? We have Wet n' Wild. Oh, which
is what I just called it, right? Yes. Okay. But
anyway, yeah, so he wants to go there. Party
bus to the water park. I mean, that's living
the dream, man. But, you know, it's going to
be a bunch of 10 -year -old boys. So I've said
to my husband, you can go in the party bus from
there. I'll drive up. I'll drive up. I will be
listening to my own music and my own way of doing
things. Back to the women. So a woman who spent
like 40 something years saying yes to everything.
I know you've already said, you know, to take
a pause, but how can she really take that step
and feel more confident? Is it like a mindset
shift she needs to work on? Is there some kind
of gratitude practice? Is there something that
she can do for herself to really make that easier?
Because it can be hard. It can be really, if
you've already spent so much time saying no.
it can be hard to, you know, say, oh. Absolutely.
And I think it's also because if you have said
yes to lots of things, it comes usually as a
shock to the other person who is hearing the
noise. Like, where is this coming from? You need
to figure out what your values really are. And
that's then how you can build these boundaries
around you. So what is really important to you?
So there is lots of resources on the internet.
If you type in like core values, how to figure
them out, and it gives you some prompts to figure
out what you really care about and then figure
out what triggers you. So when we say no, it
can be like two different things, right? Is it...
How do you feel like when you're triggered, when
you say yes to something that should be a no,
you feel it within your body, you get frustrated,
you're resenting the work that you do, or you
took on like something extra that you definitely
didn't need to. And then you ask yourself why
you did it. I think it's like having this moment
of reflection instead of just brushing it off.
And just saying, it's okay, I will just figure
it out. You really need to reflect like, why
did I do this? Where is this coming from? Have
you been condition from a young age to be like
this be people pleasing because like for example
never were allowed to say something against our
parents our relatives our grandparents it can
turn out later as a people pleasing factor where
we are afraid to confront somebody there's lots
of people that I've spoken to who said like I
am great at my job but like with my family I'm
very conflict avoidant. I don't want to raise
anything because they want to keep the social
harmony as well. So I think it's about taking
the time to reflect on the boundaries that you
have or also the boundaries that you don't have.
Are you usually saying yes to when it's actually
a big no? And to figure out that relationship,
where it came from, why it's still happening
and what is the reason behind it? Is it fear?
It's very hard for adult children of maybe emotionally
immature parents to have conversations about
their childhood with them because it always gets
like brushed off. I hear the sigh. And that is
something that you need to figure out. And I
think also, again, you can ask for help. You
don't need to unpack big topics in your own head.
We tend to think that counseling or therapy or
seeing somebody is just if you have major issues,
no, any form of distress or unpacking that needs
to be done. It's better to have a very objective
person who doesn't know you to help you through
this phase of your life or through this narrative
or story that you're currently experiencing.
Your partner is usually way too close to you.
You don't want to really open up your deepest
and darkest fears. thoughts behaviors and secrets
to somebody that you share a house with that
you share a life with and your parents are usually
also not the ones that you can talk freely with
even your best friend I guess they become part
of your story don't they so whatever the story
is you know they're intertwined in it in some
way yes and often it's easier to just like speak
to somebody objectively for a couple of weeks,
then you maybe have resolved it. You feel better.
But then just letting it all go. And I think
this is this misconception that people still
have that you need to have something major. If
it feels major to you. It is important. It is
important to sort it out. And if it's a stumbling
block for you to achieve something that you want
in your life, like clearly you need to find a
way around that block. I think as coaches that
happens with us a lot as well. It's like I had
a client in my office the other day. It made
me think of her so much when you were just saying
these things. She is in her 50s now. Adult children
that still live with her. So her daughter put
her laundry out on the stairs. My client was
like, I'm not doing anything with that. And then
her daughter got home and said, my laundry's
still out. Oh, my God. And unfortunately, my
client cowered and was like, oh, I'll get it
done. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I was
like, okay, so next time, next time. And she
said, I felt bad saying no because I have always
done her laundry in the past. And I was like,
I was like, she is 19. Yeah. First of all, number
one, your past doesn't dictate your future. So
you can set a boundary right now, even if you've
never said it in the past. Yes. So like that
can definitely still happen. Secondly, she is
19. She is an adult. We can all sit down and
have a conversation about who needs to do that
laundry and why. You know, even if in the past
you've done it, your helper's done it, whatever.
It's like these are conversations that are absolutely
viable to have, but she's terrified to have them.
It's hard, like you said, because she has been
doing it for so many years. But you can change
and you need to change because if not, this resentment
is just going to fester over and over again.
And you keep having the same conversations. Over
and over again. That's why suddenly people like
come and have burnouts or like distress and they
feel like, why am I feeling the way that I'm
feeling? Because you're not facing difficult
conversation. Usually there's like somebody that
you need to say something to, but you've been
holding it inside and it keeps feeding this resentment
that you then have. Sometimes people like look
at each other after 10 years. And they still
talk about a fight that happened 10 years ago
because they have not resolved it. You're only
gaining something if you bring this change. You're
not winning if you keep in this negative feedback
loop. Yeah, festering, like you said. And also,
you know, from the feminist standpoint of this
whole thing, this is your daughter. She's 19.
You need to teach her what it looks like to stand
up for yourself. And also, like you said, if
she wants to be an independent adult moving forward,
then you need to learn how to do your own laundry.
So it's like I'm imparting upon you this wisdom
and also this gift of how to set boundaries.
It's like you're doing her a disservice because
now when she's in her 50s and she's facing down
this same teenage daughter that's making the
same thing, all you've taught her is how to cower.
Yeah, that's very true. So, I mean, it's the
same. conversations is important but let's say
someone invites you out for dinner and drinks
and you really don't want to go and i always
find myself making an excuse see me in my daily
life every time i ever do that like obviously
do you need to give an excuse do you need to
say i cannot go because i'm busy my kids are
sick yeah you know like do we need to have a
conversation can we just say no or is it rude
to just say no like how do you turn down That's
not, you know, something to do with laundry or
your husband that you need to have a conversation
with your parents. But it's just someone, maybe
a friend, maybe a colleague or, you know, someone
who you've just met. How do you say no to them?
You can just try and say, I can't. And then usually
they go, OK. Because you have this narrative
in your head that you need to spin this big story
and there will be meltdowns and people will miss
you so much. But usually people will just go,
okay, it's fine. And what if they keep asking
you? And you say, I can't, I'm busy. Okay. And
then eventually get the message. Exactly. And
eventually they will get it. I think it also
depends on what kind of relationship you have
with a friend, right? I'm sure you feel it as
well. The older we get. Time becomes so much
more valuable. And also the people that you spend
this time with. We're very limited in this hustle
bustle world that we live in. And we always feel
like we need to do something. Who you spend your
time with is also very important that it fulfills
you, that it gives you energy, that it gives
you the connections, that it gives you something
in return. Because if you say yes to a social
gathering that you don't want to be at. You're
literally just wasting your time. And you also
feel like, why did I do this? I had this sometimes
with my husband. And that's like how I built
also the confidence for these social occasions
to say, no, I would sometimes come home and I
would be driving home after a two hour thing.
And I would ask myself, why did I do this? So
I have this very real conversation in my head.
It was like, it really was not. eventful it did
not give me anything it did not enlighten me
this this type of conversations because there's
different type of conversations that like social
circles have right and i said this to my husband
and then he just simply said so just don't go
and i'm like wow can i do that realize yes of
course I can just not go I will not miss out
on anything or you just reduce the frequency
and spend time with people who inspire you people
you want to have dinner with people who really
fill your cup as well And I know those people.
I know the people who make me feel energised
after I've had a conversation with them and who
I want to spend my time with. And the problem
is, like you said, you're at this stage in life
now where your time is so limited. And saying
yes to the people who are not going to fill your
cup feels counterproductive and takes away time
from the people you actually do want to spend
time with. Yeah, it does. And can we even like
talk about it instrumentally in Singapore? You
come home from that two hour dinner and you've
also spent like 200 bucks, you know, and something
I'm working on this year is like trying to reduce
my alcohol consumption. Right. So it's like,
I don't want to contribute to the like sixth
bottle of wine going around and I'm not drinking,
but you can't bow out of it because it's like
part of the group, you know, it's like all these
other, it's like, honestly, time it's money.
It's your social battery. It's everything. Yeah.
say F and no. So my husband is the extrovert
and I'm the introvert. So when we go out together,
he gets, it really fills him with energy when
he spends time with so many people. And me after
like two, three hours, I was like, I'm happy
to go home and just be quiet. I don't need to
talk or like do anything. I just like need to
decompress. And when In like busy holiday seasons,
for example, like Christmas, you just go like,
remember when it was Christmas and you could
only have like five people? Oh my God, that was
amazing. That was my family's Christmas. Yeah,
it was though. But it felt like you would have
Christmas dinners every day because you have
to go to this person's house and this person's
house. It was like so many things. It energizes
extroverts because they really need that social
energy and they enjoy it. And it's absolutely
fine if you're like that. But if you are... More
on the introvert side where you feel like I'm
okay with just doing once a week kind of dinner
with friends. You don't have to do more. Not
because who expects it of you. It's only like
this own expectations that you set for yourself
to fit somebody else's image or society's standard
in a way. But if it doesn't fulfill you, don't
do it. Because in a way, again, it will drain
your... battery it's this emotional well -being
you're mentally just fatigued and exhausted so
you really need to fill your own cup again what
i find is it's actually quite funny there's always
that couple isn't there the one that needs the
the socializing and the one that doesn't and
they always end up together yeah it's true it's
true but like we recently went for dinner and
my husband is like do you want to come and he's
like A, B, C, D, E is coming. And I'm like, no.
And he's absolutely fine with that. I told him,
you guys are just going to be talking about topics
that I have nothing in common with, which is
shipping, by the way. My husband will probably
fit right into that. Exactly. And he's like,
why don't you come? And I was like, I'm going
to be sitting there. I'm going to be wondering
what I'm doing here. Or somebody will try to
explain to me the differences between this. ships
and the cargos. And I don't need that. I rather
just Netflix with my children at home. You have
dinner and maybe I come after dinner and join
you guys for an hour for drinks or something.
But that's it. But like a sit down dinner to
talk about things that are not. It's you need
to know this is your boundary. This is something
really important to you or not important to you.
And you need to also follow through. You need
to probably make these mistakes five times where
you realize, okay, right. This is it. I realized,
I think I actually am the, I'm actually the extrovert.
Now that you just said it, I'm like, oh crap,
it is me. Cause I make Tyler do all these things.
Yeah. I make, I'm into these things, but I don't,
you know, so I actually think I've gotten to
the point where I used to be the extrovert. Like
I needed to be out and now I've somehow flipped.
And I would say, I feel like my husband's just
kind of dragged me into his, his way of doing
things. But I'm the one now who's like, I, I,
just don't feel like I've got the energy for
it as much as I used to when I was younger. So
I don't know, you know, I used to love it before,
but now I'm getting to the point where I'm like,
I don't know if I love it as much as I did. I
think like one of the main things that our divide
is on, it's not even like introvert extrovert.
It's like. I exist in gym clothes, right? Like,
like literally exist in gym clothes. Like makeup
is like all I get. I actually crave like dressy
time. Yeah. You know, like I want to have dressy
time. Actually, that's me as well. I want to
have, I want to have like a necklace on or whatever.
And like Tyler, my husband never craves dressy
time. Are you effing kidding? That dude is gym
clothes, scrubs and scene. Like there is no other
thing. Right. So we recently went to a ball.
It was our first and only after being here for
10 years. And Tyler was like, I. can never do
that again like i there's zero time like a tuxedo
the length of it you know it's like a six hour
production right with all the things you know
and it was an american ball like i was playing
the thing anyway and i was like i really can't
do it again it's like never again and i was like
well i i like i need to put on ball gowns sometimes
and we're gonna have to go together instead so
no problem so in our in this year We're going
to do, I'm going to do an all girls table. Yeah,
makes sense. And we're just going to be pretty
princesses together and F it. And none of the
husbands need to go. You find these ways around
where it's like, you don't have to, then it's
not like, well, you never get to do stuff you
want to do, but also like you can't, you don't
have to drag another person into something against
their will. You don't. To set your own boundary.
Yeah. I think like in a couple, right? It's like,
like you said, you do stuff for one another,
but it should not be the expectations that you
have to do it all the time. So where you go,
Sure, I'll come once in a while and it's a nice
thing then, but I don't need to do this every
Friday night. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's the give
and take, isn't it? It's like in every relationship,
you've got to give a little and then also take
some. Because it can't always be giving the whole
time is too much. Yeah, I had this with my husband,
like Dr. Shefali. She wrote a book about conscious
parenting. She was in Singapore. Oh, she was?
How do we know that? It's okay. There was only
like a one week notice to this. I was also like
in shock, but I saw it and I sent it to my husband
and I was like, we should go. I didn't say I
should go because I know that I should go. I
was like, we should go. And he's like, you're
right. I will go with you. He immediately saw
the importance in that. Yeah, because like you
do things for each other. It doesn't mean that
also you have to say no to everything. But once
in a while. Yeah, you're right. And I think in
order to find yourself and be true to yourself,
saying no is important, but then also finding
out what your values are and being who you want
to be is how you're going to basically. thrive
yeah you know and again never never more important
than when you're in your 40s if you ask me like
you if you haven't figured it out by now it's
a long road ahead it is it is 40s is a new 30s
right and it's a fantastic time to to really
discover yourself if women but also men haven't
had but i also would like to say there is a growing
population of men who through probably the help
of social media and the resources that you have
now, are revisiting their childhoods, their experiences
and how it shaped them. So they're also going
through this self -growth at the moment and having
so much more awareness. And I think it's a great...
I would like to say like it's like our generation
where we really are trying to be more aware and
conscious about how we are parenting the next
generation. What values do you want to pass on?
Even if you don't have kids, but like how do
you want to live your life? What is important
to you? Because the priorities that you probably
had in your 30s and 20s are not it anymore. So
what can we do to get better? And also to have
better conversations with ourselves in our head,
because this is the person you're going to spend
the most time with in the future. It's yourself.
You need to be really attuned to who you are.
You need to be aware of your values, your boundaries,
and you need to be okay with who you are. This
has been an absolutely wonderful conversation.
I feel like we've got so much out of it and understanding
who we are, how to say no, and how to say yes
to things that we want to say yes to. But before
we go, we do want to ask you one final question.
And that is, what's your 40s formula? What piece
of advice, mantra, or just some tips you would
like to give our listeners on how they can thrive
in their 40s? Know your core values, set your
boundaries and be really attuned to your inner
world. I think that's really important. Amazing.
Boundaries, values. That's very psychology of
you. Thank you for that, doctor. Amazing. Thank
you so much, Marissa. It has been amazing. Thank
you so much for having me. This was amazing.
Thank you. Thank you. Right, guys, let's talk
about perimenopause for a second. One moment
you're feeling like yourself and the next everything
seems to shift. Your body's making changes that
can leave you feeling out of control. And that's
when it starts to feel like a bit of a roller
coaster. But here's the good news. Strength,
both physical and mental, can be your anchor
through it all. The right kind of movement along
with the right kind of support really helps you
manage these shifts. That's why we love Great
Moves and their Menopause Mojo program. It's
specifically designed for perimenopause and menopause
with pelvic floor support, breathwork and strength
training. all aimed at helping you feel more
confident and in control. Exactly. It's about
building resilience in both your body and your
mindset. You can't stop the changes, but you
can take charge of how you respond. And that's
exactly what Great Moves helps you do. Stay strong
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we've got an exclusive offer just for our listeners.
Use code TFF30 at moves .great .com for $20 off
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menopause mojo program. Guys, you know, we love
coffee. And if you want to show us some love,
you know, you can always get us one. Just visit
buymeacoffee .com slash the 40s formula. Cheers.
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more empowering conversations with inspiring
guests. Bye. You know, like someone might be
on there because their mum has always told them,
oh, you're amazing and you're great. And then
you're like, yeah, la, la, la, la. And you go,
thank you. All right, so Marissa, bear with us
with this because we're actually semi -new to
the teleprompter. Yeah, we always get the speed
wrong. Ideally what will happen is we'll do this
little intro and we'll go smoothly into the discussion.
Okay. If we F up, then we'll just start at the
top. It's the best case scenario. You'll see
what happens.