Guys, we have some exciting news. The 40s Formula
is going live on August 14th at the Green Collective
at Funan Mall. We are going to dive deep into
the science, myths, and struggles around sugar
addiction. Breakfast and coffee are on us, thanks
to the generous sponsors, Guzman y Gomez. It's
a small and intimate event with only 15 spots,
so it's first come, first served. Tickets are
only 20 bucks, and that includes breakfast and
$5 towards your purchase at the Green Collective.
Come and join us for a conversation that might
change the way you eat. Think and fail. I got
diagnosed with cancer. We chose to remove my
cervix. I started chemotherapy two weeks after
my 32nd birthday. After 11 hours of chemotherapy,
I went straight into menopause. Like it took
away everything and it almost took my career.
I felt like such an imposter. What if they think
that I'm not good enough to be in the job? She
doesn't have to be that one in 10 women that
leave the workplace because of menopause. Globally,
it's costing GDP 120 billion US dollars. struggling
with brain fog, memory loss, focus, concentration.
That part of my story is not unique. Most of
the women I speak to now. All going through that.
I want women to know that there is a solution
to every single symptom that they feel. My gold
star would be to have a specific menopause policy.
Fear comes from a lack of knowledge. I am just
so determined to give women this knowledge that
you can thrive. You just need to be armed with
information. And your menopause experience can
be largely determined by your genetics. It is
also largely determined on your lifestyle. Every
one of us will go through it. women will experience
it uniquely be unapologetic why are we so afraid
to say the word menopause yeah our bodies are
superhuman if you treat it well it will give
you back it's like a boomerang effect if you
look after it it will look after you Hey, and
welcome to The 40s Formula, your go -to place
for insightful discussions on navigating the
40s and thriving in this transformative decade.
We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda, two women
that are passionate about exploring the challenges
and adventures that come with turning 40 and
what lies ahead. All right, before we dive into
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it on our Instagram. The Meat Club, where quality
meets convenience. So probably one of the most
requested topics here at the 40s Formula is anything
to do with menopause. And we've hit it from all
angles. We talk about how menopause affects sex,
how menopause affects your muscles, but we've
never actually had a chat about how menopause
affects you at work. And that's why we are so
excited today to have corporate menopause champion
Lisa Tarkini with us today. Hello. Thank you
so much for having me today. Thank you so much
for coming. And we were just chatting off air
about your compelling personal story with menopause.
Do you mind sharing that with us? So I was first
diagnosed with cervical cancer in 2011. So I
was 31 years old and I was. living my best life
in Rome with my now husband. Thankfully, he stuck
around. And I got diagnosed with cancer in Italian.
It was cancro, so it was nicer. And I chose to
go back to Northern Ireland to get a second opinion.
And we chose to remove my cervix. And then six
months later, the tumour. returned and so I started
chemotherapy two weeks after my 32nd birthday
in January 2012 and after 11 hours of chemotherapy
I went straight into menopause it shut off my
ovaries oh geez that's just giving me goosebumps
like hearing that so yeah I've been in menopause
now for 13 years oh wow yeah And obviously that
happening to you at 32 means that really affected
your family planning. Like it took away everything.
I was asked before I had started chemotherapy,
did I want to preserve my eggs? But because the
cancer was so aggressive, I said, look, let's
just get on with the treatment. And the oncologist
said that she was very happy to hear me say that
because she didn't think we had enough time.
to do that. So, yeah, it took my fertility. Yeah.
Do you mind sharing the happy ending to that
story? I do. Yeah. It's been a journey. And the
first five years of my, I suppose, cancer journey
were riddled with mental health issues and the
mental impact almost took my life in 2017. where
I almost stepped in front of a bus. But having
never had mental health issues and never felt
suicidal in my life, you know, I thankfully shook
it off and recognised that I needed to go and
speak to the doctor. And she gave me an SSRI,
an antidepressant, to help my body absorb and
reuptake serotonin, the happy hormone. And within
two weeks, it was night and day. She saved my
life, you know. And before that, you know, I've
always wanted a family. And my husband and I,
when we first met on a beach in Dubai, I think
one of my first conversations was because he
was 10 years older. Do you want to have a family?
And he said, yes, absolutely. So before I was
given what I call my miracle pill that changed
my life, I didn't think I could be a mom because
I was so riddled with. dark times and mood lows
and low energy. And then shortly after I started
to feel better, I said, OK, let's get started.
And so we chose to have surrogate babies. Amazing.
So our babies were born in California. Wow. Alfredo
was born in 2019 and Stella was born in 2020.
So there's five months apart. Amazing. Congratulations.
Thank you so much. That's a beautiful story.
That's almost like having twins, isn't it? It
is. It is, yeah. Five months. I'd say that for
all intents and purposes, that counts. That's
real close. They would call that Irish twins.
Irish twins. There we go. You can say that, right?
That's definitely true. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Well,
thank you for sharing that. deep element of your
personal journey, it obviously makes sense now
why you felt compelled to start a company that
helps women in this space. So two years after
I finished my um cancer treatment I felt much
stronger and I wanted to get my career back I
was lucky enough to get the job as the sports
nutrition manager at the Hong Kong Sports Institute
in Hong Kong working with the Olympic athletes
and so we came to Hong Kong in 2014 and when
you're working with one percent of the population
who are training for Asian Games or Olympics,
they expect you to know your research. They want
you to know the latest research on protein for,
you know, recovery and things like that, or carbohydrate
for fueling or, you know, which supplements are
going to, you know, enhance their performance.
And I knew the information, but I couldn't get
it out. When I was reading scientific journals,
I honestly had to read the abstract at least
five times. And even then I couldn't retain it.
And so I retreated. So I had a team of 10 and
I was lucky to have, you know, dieticians and
biochemists who were so exceptional at their
job. That is most good managers I delegated.
And I kind of retreated back from. working hands
on and I took a more managerial approach. And,
you know, we put some great systems in place
at the Sports Institute. We revamped the food
provision and things like that. So so the job
was still great. But my love to work with the
athletes, you know, I really miss that. And it
almost took my career. You know, I felt like
such an imposter. What if they think that I'm
not good enough to be in the job? And it wasn't
until, you know, after my doctor had given me
this SSRI and I recognised, oh, my God, my memory's
working and I can retain this information. I
know this answer, you know, and I was able to
get that information out to the athletes. I found
my confidence again. That part of my story is
not unique. That part of my story where I was
struggling with brain fog, memory loss, focus,
concentration, retention of information. Most
of the women I speak to now, all going through
that and feeling exceptionally vulnerable in
their workplaces. And this is why I set up the
menopause space, because a career airtight personality
like myself. I want women to know that there
is a solution to every single symptom that they
feel and to help them identify it sooner. Not
be a hero. Don't leave it too late to ask for
help and get the help quicker and just close
that gap so you can thrive, you know, through
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Clean is the new healthy and now it's also the
new app. It's one of those things, isn't it?
Like, you know, you walk into a room and you'll
be like. I said, I come in here again. And then
if you're writing an email or you're speaking
to someone or you're presenting, then all of
a sudden you're like, what's that word? You know,
that word that we say to do this and you just
can't get it out. So it's like, it's one of those
things where everyone knows what's happening,
but it's so difficult to put in words. And then
also you don't know what's happening because
you don't put the two together. Yeah. I personally
thought that I had dementia. Because I went into
early menopause, dementia runs in my dad's side
of the family. And so I, that's what I thought
I had. I didn't recognize that, that I didn't
know the knowledge. I hadn't the knowledge on
menopause and the kind of the symptoms that it
presented itself with. And I didn't put two and
two together. And so women today are still. you
know, unaware of this, but also women who may
be, you know, in these big positions, highly
stressed, naturally would have been able to manage
that, you know, in their 30s, early 40s, mid
40s and beyond. They're now thinking, oh, my
God, do I have a brain tumour? You know, do I
have dementia? You know, and instead of having
this awareness and knowledge and information
to say, oh, it's it's i'm going through a hormonal
transition and i need to go and see my doctor
to get help with that so that's the importance
of the awareness you know yeah and you just hit
the nail on the head with the confusion around
is this a symptom or am i degrading right am
i declining yes and i came across that study
which i'm sure you're intimately familiar with
about the menopause penalty yes and the basically
the idea that employment options are fewer Women
are being penalized in the workplace for what
they're perceiving as their mental and physical
decline. But in fact, this is related to menopause,
right? So how do you help women, first of all,
kind of suss out their symptoms? And then how
do you help them not be penalized by the symptoms
that they experience? There's just this great
need for mass basic education, you know. And
thankfully, the conversation has accelerated
in the last few years, particularly at this side
of the world. So how we help women recognize
their symptoms, there's a few ways. We have a
menopause symptom tracker that we have as a resource
on the website. But we go into workplaces and
we talk like this. You know, we don't go in from
a medical perspective and we go in from real
story perspective. But also, you know, my first
job is science and nutrition and well -being.
And so it has to be evidence based. So just telling
them the story and having a conversation helps
other women then open up and share what they're
going through. And so that creates awareness
and that creates a form of education that they
haven't already had. community can then help
signpost. We do deliver very specific training
within organisations on senior leader training
to help create advocacy. We also help design
policy within organisations so that there is
support in terms of benefits and insurance. There's
a long way to go there. At the minute, within
particularly big, all organisations, big global
organisations, MNCs are definitely coming further
and further ahead but it's still initial stages
here at this side of the world but it's it's
getting much better give us an example of one
of the policies that you might design to support
women through this the term policy unfortunately
um businesses kind of shy away from because they
feel it's quite a concrete term. But actually,
when we had our flagship event in October last
year, we had an employment lawyer on who, you
know, spoke about the word policy doesn't hold
legal, real connotations to it. But that's OK.
In the beginning stages, we help organisations
with their menopause guidelines. So we look at
reasonable adjustments within the workplace.
So that could be anything from. identifying where
the cooler spots of the office are. I like that
one. Yeah, but they have big, you know, these
organisations are huge. So there should be temperature
control at certain parts of the office, possibly
lighting for those who are suffering from migraines
and even for women going through their normal
menstrual cycle who have, you know, menstrual
migraines as well, where they have different
areas. And some women have hypersensitivity to
sound, smell. So just being able to identify
those hotspots where maybe they can have a, you
know, a hot seat, a table or a room. Away from
the toilets. Away from the toilets, flexible
working. So we advise on that currently, not
necessarily to have, my gold star would be to
have a specific menopause policy, but actually
having a women's health policy in place with.
menstruation, maternity, menopause and mental
health on that and then having that as a roadmap
for an internal women's health hub on an intranet
or learning management system within the organisation.
So we're advising on that currently. Organisations
are pleasantly surprised at how much they do
already offer. That's promising. But there's
just, the context isn't there because menopause
is still a dirty word in these big corporates.
Women don't want to talk about it because they
don't want to seem weak. Men don't understand
how to talk about it. Senior leaders are more
focused on numbers. But we help them bring the
human centric approach to it. And we advocate
for those going through it and those. wanting
to help but don't know how to help as well in
this side of the world do women have any legal
rights when it comes to menopause or is that
totally unheard of in what sense so like you
know like if they're let go are they allowed
to be let go because they might not be performing
because of the menopause i don't know if i'm
wording this correctly but you know so unfair
dismissal for example yes so you know like for
example um when you have when you're going through
uh pregnancy You know, you can't be let go of.
I think that's correct. Is that correct here?
Or is that different? Have I got the wrong end
of the stick? Again, I am not a lawyer in this
area, but I. Don't think that those protections
exist in Singapore. I'm not sure. Oh, gosh, I
doubt it. I don't think there's been a case.
So there's no protection. In the US, absolutely.
In the UK as well, unfair dismissal. I think
this conversation is only just beginning. Employment
laws are different here at this side of the world
as well. And obviously, if we think about, you
know, we're here in Singapore today. I work,
you know, across the APAC region and every country
in every region has their. different nuances
and and cultures and laws and um so you know
there's to my mind um to date i don't think there
has been a dismissal case an unfair dismissal
case because of menopause symptoms yeah that's
good to hear yeah that there hasn't been something
well there there possibly could have been yeah
they just the woman hasn't got a leg to stand
on or doesn't have the confidence to to fight
her corner you know well again you just mentioned
the four m's right so menstruation maternity
menopause, and again, mental health not being
necessarily a... you know, a moment in time,
but just kind of an overarching umbrella. Women
are constantly being penalized for changes in
their biology. Yes. You know, I remember when
I was a gymnast, you know, competitive gymnast
being terrified of getting my period. Yes. And
first of all, competitive gymnasts at our level.
And again, especially back in the day where we
didn't have as much nutrition support and information,
you know, it was like you didn't want to get
your period. So you wanted to extend as far as
you could into your gymnastics career before
you got it. Right. Yes. And I remember thinking,
oh, my gosh, because. what's going to happen
is i'm going to gain a bunch of weight i'm going
to get a bunch of curves and i'm going to be
worse at my sport yes right so it's like even
back then there was this misunderstanding that
the changes that are natural and healthy for
you yes you should be fearful of yes what i worry
about right when we talk about the four m's in
the workplace is like does it in any way create
fear or trepidation around these things? Because
like, well, here's all the symptoms you might
experience that might affect your career negatively.
How do you spin it to be like, no, no, no, this
is empowering you with knowledge, right? To know
what's coming. That's a great question. And yes,
the fear is real. Is real. I'm shaking in my
boots as a premenopausal woman, right? Like what
is to come? The fear is real and it's very sad.
that we have fear around this stage of life.
And fear comes from a lack of knowledge. And
that's where, you know, I am just so determined
to give women this knowledge that you can thrive.
You just need to be armed with information. You
have so many choices on symptom management and
you can choose how you want to have a menopause
experience. And your menopause experience, you
know, can be largely determined by your genetics,
maybe how your mum went through it, but it is
also largely determined on your lifestyle. And
you can have now medicinal support for that.
We are here in Southeast Asia, so we do have
access to traditional Chinese medicine. We have
acupuncture and these, the West versus East doesn't
have to exist. They can complement each other
as well. So it's really important that we continue
through the education progress and that is going
to take a generation. And, you know, I'm 45 and
I see a whole shift in my friendship groups are
all learning about this. You know, the generation
above us are, you know, possibly through it and
they got lost. And unfortunately, they didn't
have the resources that we now have. It's so
sad, isn't it? When I think back to my mum, my
mother -in -law, my aunts, I'm thinking, God,
what you guys must have gone through. We are
empowered. We're at this point now in our time
where we're getting the knowledge and the support
and the help that we need. But they didn't have
it. No. And they were continually, I'm sure,
at least some women, self -blaming. Yeah. community
groups didn't talk about it there was shame like
we've done this to ourselves as well as women
you know we're quite judgy and um we dismiss
other friends if we're stronger and you know
they're just you know not strong enough to and
you know that has to stop as well we have to
start supporting each other and recognize that
you know menopause yes it happens to 100 of the
female population every one of us will go through
it every Women will experience it uniquely. And
just because you might have had an easy ride
doesn't mean that your friend has to have an
easy ride. Your friend may be, you know, having
a tougher ride than you. And having that empathy
is really important. I feel sometimes, though,
it's hard to have true empathy if you haven't
experienced it yourself. But that's where knowledge
comes in and active listening and just being
there, you know, which is so important. Well,
I think you just, you know, discuss kind of what
is the strategy for men? in menopause, right?
They will never be through it. Yes. So what can
they do? Yes. Be active listeners, be there,
be supportive, right? Yes. How else do you work
with men that, you know, like I said, first of
all, will never experience and have never experienced
any of the M's, maybe the mental health one,
they're welcome to that one. But how do you work
with men that will never have never and maybe
can't even get in the shoes of a menopausal woman?
So there's a couple of things when it comes to
men and menopause. And one that I would like
to talk about first is It's not their fault.
Definitely not. We haven't understood what's
been going on in our bodies. Like my mom doesn't
even talk about menopause. She's 68, you know,
and I did an event yesterday with two wonderful
women from Singapore. And, you know, they have
just been through their crazy experiences and
they were quite extreme, a bit like mine. And,
you know, they couldn't communicate it with their
husband because they didn't know what to communicate.
And so the knowledge has to start with us as
women so that we can articulate. what's happening
and how we need men to help us and support us.
We have to give them a hand because they don't
experience it. But the other way that we work
with men is I have a partnership with a wonderful
company in the UK called Over the Bloody Moon.
I love that name. First of all, love it. Tell
me more about it. So good. Love Leslie. And she
created a meno vest. It's the world's only menopause
simulator. And it simulates hot flushes like
a woman will experience them. Wow. Can we get
this in Singapore? I've got it. I've got the
franchise for Asia. I was at an event with a
company yesterday and one of the male senior
leaders wore it and gave his feedback on it.
Yeah, those hot flushes are... It's such a powerful
tool, right? So it's like a gilet. The man will
experience a hot flush and he won't know when
it's coming. how hot it's going to be and how
long it's going to last for and how often it's
going to come and when we ask mental worthies
we we ask them to you know really think of the
role play as if they are a woman and to have
the respect of that and not to joke oh you know
this isn't that hot and things like that and
We also then ask them, how did it impact your
mental health? And so yesterday, the feedback
from this particular senior leader was, one,
I'm so sorry, ladies, that you have had to experience
this. He couldn't concentrate on the conversation
in detail because he was thinking about when
the next one was coming. And it was so hot. It's
actually making me a bit emotional because I
actually remember having going through those
hot flushes and it. it's not enough this is weird
it's the first time i'm actually getting emotional
during a podcast but it was really tough it's
horrible like you know you you don't know what's
happening you don't know when it's coming and
it does not feel nice oh wow this is this is
her first ever cry by the way i cry all the time
because you know like you think oh it's just
a hot flash but it's not just a hot flash that's
the thing it's not particularly working with
women in the workplace who are in those senior
leader roles you know and just general employees
right um as well like every woman in that in
in those organizations who have to deliver who
have important jobs like the lady yesterday was
an ip lawyer she gets paid for her breathing
yes yeah and honest to goodness you know i'm
not taking away from a woman who's on a checkout
or a woman who you know cleans for a living like
or stay at home mom you know it's so important
that we recognize everybody you know every woman
goes through this in the roles that they play
on a daily basis particularly with my job and
seeing the vulnerability you know like you Jasmine
and you know women in these leadership roles
who are just distraught and don't know and think
about leaving so with the questions that you
sent one of them you know came up this morning
just randomly after I read it and a dear friend
of mine in Hong Kong is head of HR for a global
company and she is currently in New York. And
she bumped into an old friend who has been with
this global company for 20 years. She moved from
Hong Kong to London, is currently living in London.
She was distraught and she had come to New York
to hand in her notice because she is suffering
so badly with menopausal symptoms. And she is
not being heard. Even in the UK, where they seem
to be. ahead of the game in this space. She is
being dismissed. She is not being listened to.
She is being pawned off and she just doesn't
feel like she can do the job. Now, having been
in this global company for 20 years, she's a
big player and she has two big roles. And my
friend was just like, no, no, you can't hand
in your notice. Let me help. As head of HR, please
let me help. Because I'm her friend and I'm doing
all of this work in this space and I've done
some work within their company. She knew what
she had to do. So she said to this woman, you
need to go and talk to your two line heads, managers,
and you need to explain what's going on. I'm
going to give you three months. off I need you
to talk to my friend Lisa and I need her to signpost
you to get the help that you need and I'm going
to give you the time and space to build your
community around that it's amazing and so She
then went to her senior leaders because this
particular stage of the women's life cycle hasn't
been brought in to this global company yet. It's
coming. And so she went to those two heads of
the team and explained that the women would be
coming to talk to them about what she's going
through. It's going to be a difficult conversation.
This is what you need to know and you're prepared
for it now. And they're like, oh, because they
haven't had the training. what to do it feels
like an awkward conversation yes yeah so just
having conversations can support anyone yes around
you make a decision that could change somebody's
life yes and my friend today made a decision
that hopefully will positively impact this woman's
life and that she doesn't have to be that one
in 10 women that leave the workplace because
of menopause. That statistic. And I fingers crossed,
I got goosebumps. I hope that that woman now
gets the help that she needs so that she can
thrive. And also this company is so good and
this woman is so valued that they said we can
find another role for her to keep her. She's
that valuable. Amazing. So that's the support.
that workplaces do need to provide. And that's
the infrastructure that needs to be put in place.
But it's just the know -how because it's the
word. What my friend did today was be a human
being and to be a HR manager, to help. Take away
menopause. She was a human being. And she knew
that that woman, her dear friend, who was an
amazing... person, high performer needed help.
And she was able to offer that. So, you know,
a lot of workplaces now you're going centralized
and it's all about numbers and, you know, they're
taking away the human centric side of the workplace
that has to come back because people need help.
Look, I am never cutting carbs. They're part
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.com for 20 % off. That appalling statistic that
you just dropped, one in 10 women leaving the
workplace for menopause. All I can think about,
right, circling back to the menopause penalty,
is women in lower SES categories, if they are
leaving the workplace and that is their, you
know, tasked with, you know, providing for the
family, let's say, or, you know, how does the
menopause penalty then disproportionately affect
women in lower SES categories that might not
have access to these types of resources you're
describing? Significantly, you know, so they
end up, you know, living off the state on disability
allowance or unemployment. benefits which costs
the government money as well but also not having
that knowledge and understanding can impact their
you know home the home life the social life you
know the relationships that they share whether
that's with their children their partners or
their you know their family they can get become
lonely they can disengage from society and actually
you know A few weeks ago, a teacher took her
life in England because of menopause. The coroner
has stated that she had mental health issues
because of menopause and that she didn't get
the help that she needed and the system needs
to change. And so, you know, that. can have a
huge impact on society as a whole from a human
perspective. But also, you know, if we talk about
the economic cost, you know, menopause and the
loss of productivity is costing the UK 12 billion
UK pounds. Japan are the only region. in Asia
to release their data. It's costing them 1 .9
trillion yen. I remember that headline. Yeah,
so they released that last year, March last year
in the Nikkei. And globally, it's costing the
globe GDP 120 billion US dollars. And this is
just because of a lack of awareness, a lack of
knowledge, and a lack of access to best practice
care. Yes. doctors aren't trained in it and not
every doctor wants to be a women's health specialist
particularly GPs you know they have to do so
much so you know you have to know a particular
primary care provider who has a specialist and
want and need to help women in this phase of
life. And they're few and far between, unfortunately,
at the minute. Isn't it crazy that, you know,
doctors don't want to be women health specialists,
let's say, but then by default, if 50 % of the
population is women, then they just all get to
be men's health specialist. And that's, that's
okay. It doesn't seem like, you know, it's like,
I'm sorry that this isn't your preference, but
oh, well, it's half. patients so I look I wholeheartedly
agree with that it drives me crazy it does I
think you know if you think about the lack of
research in general on women's health right the
lack of provision that we've had up until this
point like I think it was a decade ago that a
doctor in the UK Dr Louise Newsom really started
this campaign and rightly or wrongly she has
been you know pulled over the coals by menopause
societies you know globally and locally and you
know because people don't like change but she
has ruffled feathers in such a way that has been
an impact for change. And she's my hero. I'm
so grateful for her. And, you know, it's going
to take a while for that ripple effect to happen.
You know, and hopefully in the next 10 years,
we'll see, you know, a huge increase in knowledge
and awareness and doctors taking accountability.
I just want to go back to your point where you
said that some women have to go on sort of disability
allowance or or get support from the state now
is that even possible and the reason I bring
this up is because when it comes to things like
HRT you can't get it on insurance you don't get
it from the government I'm pretty sure you can't
get it on NHS unless it's changed now it is yeah
oh okay well that's amazing yeah because I remember
years and years ago a long long time ago I used
to work for the appeal service while I was at
university just you know earning a little bit
of money and there was a lady who turned up who
was trying to get disability allowance for endometriosis
because she couldn't work because she was in
so much pain yeah they denied they denied her
her claim that sounds like a lawsuit I mean,
that can't... Look, I'm not... I'm like, you're
everything now, right, Lisa? You're a lawyer
as well, right? I think there has been a few
cases in the UK. You know, menopause is a natural
phase of life. Yeah. But it can cause cardiovascular
disease. Yeah. It's the number one cause of death
in women post -menopause. We just had a cardiologist
on talking about that, as a matter of fact. Brilliant,
brilliant. And osteoporosis is the most prevalent
of diseases. Now, both of those are preventable.
But we haven't heard about this in years gone
by. Because you're going to get breast cancer
if you take HRT, right? Which thankfully now
has changed. But there are still people who believe
that. There are still people who don't know.
And doctors still think that. And so that is
where the next five years are going to be so
important for women to have this knowledge and
empowerment. But going back to, you know, having
a disability, you know, other underlying. risks
like type 2 diabetes or musculoskeletal issues
they can cause so much pain for women in low
socioeconomic areas who may not have the ability
to pay for a strength trainer or to eat healthy
yeah sorry to say but eating healthy i'm a nutritionist
by trade and it is can be expensive particularly
today yes like with it's so much easier to go
and buy a meal deal from tesco's than it would
be to go and buy the veg the protein you know
the stuff you and make the means yes the time
yes and it's the time cost it's you know people
are time poor now as well and if you're suffering
with mental health because of menopause you may
not have the will or the want to do anything
which I can attest for because I didn't at one
stage as well and so they can become factors
that can lead to disability benefits possibly
and then seeking unemployment in the UK I'm not
sure what that's like here um but but definitely
that that is happening in the uk yeah Well, you
were just mentioning, right, that we need to
do more good science on women going through menopause,
right? So I relate to this not as a woman going
through menopause, but as a woman writing a book
on prenatal and postpartum fitness. Amazing.
There's a gap of research, not just for women,
but for what you can even test on pregnant women,
right? So there's IRB blockades from what we
can find out about this population. So it's not
so much that this population is mysterious so
much as we sort of can't study them. in the traditional
outlets that we need to to get the RCT level
of research that we would need to make care decisions
in a medical facility, right? So bringing that
to menopause, what do you see as some of the
biggest gaps in the research? So we just talked
about HRT, right? So that old ancient HRT causes
breast cancer that's been completely debunked
here, there, and everywhere, but still persists.
Where are some of the other research gaps that
need to be filled to help menopausal women make
their case? With hormone replacement therapy,
there definitely needs to be way more research
on that. There was like a SWAN study done and
it was, you know, it was positive and it's longitudinal,
which is great. We need more longitudinal data.
We need more non -hormonal treatments involved.
You know, like when a lot of women do go to the
doctors, they unfortunately leave it too late
and they go. when they are at their most vulnerable
with a whole host of things. And doctors' initial
thing is to put them on antidepressants. Actually...
The SSRI, the antidepressant, can be a non -hormonal
treatment for menopause and mood disorders as
well. I'm using that as well as hormone replacement
therapy. And I'm so grateful for it. There are
other non -hormonal treatments. There's a new
treatment now that's just been launched in Singapore
called Vioza, which is amazing for vasomotor
symptoms. The non -hormonal treatments as well
for women with oestrogen dominant cancers, for
example, breast cancer. So this is going to be
groundbreaking for them. But even that more research
is needed in that field. For me personally, it's
the lifestyle as well. Like women need a DEXA
scan at 40 years of age as a baseline. Girl preach.
Can you just really quickly for our listeners
that might not be familiar, what's a DEXA scan?
So a DEXA scan is like a full body. dual x -ray.
Absorbiometry, which is the weirdest word of
all time. So it's basically an x -ray that you
can use for two things. You can use for body
composition and for bone mineral density. And
if you go for the bone mineral density scan and
you get tested on your hip and your spine, you
can detect if you have strong bones and where
your bone, what strength they are. And if you
are having the onset, so osteopenia and then
possibly possibly osteoporosis. And, you know,
currently I think, you know, from a national
health perspective, I think here as well in Asia,
in Singapore, Hong Kong, in the UK, doctors are
giving it at like 60. Yes. It's too late. We
refer out for DEXs all the time, right? For women
that, you know, women that are 36 going through
perineal pause or whatever. And so often, you
know, when, when my husband makes the referral,
the lab is like, are you sure, you know, for
this patient? Like, yes, we're sure. This patient
needs a DEXA scan. I mean, we get questioned.
Anyone under, like you said, 65 really, if we're
being honest, we get questions from the lab.
So I'm really trying to push for that. You know,
you've got to bank your bones. You know, when
you're younger, don't go on fad diets. Make sure
you always have your period. See, because this
is the thing. I think people don't consider how
important bones are. But the reason they're so
important is because if you have a fall when
you're in your 60s. there's a chance you might
not survive it. If you have a fall when you're
in your 80s, you're gone. There's overwhelming
research to show that that is one of the number
one pathways to a shortened lifespan. Well, I'm
an 80s baby, so I grew up really through the
90s with fast... low fat diets and you know all
of these and you know doing aerobics yeah you
know and it was absolutely toxic you know and
that mentality and I'm very lucky that I played
netball so I was binding constantly every day
you know no I obviously had a knee replacement
my cruciate ligament snapped because of the binding
and not enough strength training back in those
days because we didn't do that back in those
days you know Oh, because you didn't want to
get bulky or anything, right? Oh my goodness,
God forbid. You know, when I was diving, when
I was 14, that was the first time that I had
a strength and conditioning coach. Wow. But through
my 12 years of gymnastics before that. And that's
when you really needed it. I know, oh my gosh,
yeah, yeah. So I mean, it's, yeah. So anyway,
sports have come a long way. Sports have come
a long way and just research has come a long
way, you know, so. for anyone listening, you
know, strong over skinny, you know, and it's
so important that, and you will not bulk up really
quickly. It takes so much strength training and
so much protein to be bulky. Maybe even extra
testosterone. Yeah, exactly. So don't fear it.
And can I be honest, even if you accidentally
stumbled into bulkiness, which again, show me
how that works because I've been going for bulkiness
for years. But even if you did. Yes. it would
be the best thing that ever happened to your
health. So you're welcome. Yeah, for metabolic
health, for your brain health. If you accidentally
got to 90th percentile ALMI, you're welcome.
Oh my goodness. Because now you're unbreakable.
I mean, it's like these are things not to be
feared. But like you said, it's unlikely that
it would even happen. Yeah. The way that... I
think culturally women imagine it to happen.
That's it. Having a DEXA scan as a woman's health
check when you're 40 is so important because
then you have a baseline and you know what you
need to put in place for your bones as well.
I would also recommend. Yes, you need protein
and you need a little bit of extra protein moving
into midlife and beyond. But you also need possibly
a vitamin D supplement. Yes. You know, we do
live here in Singapore, Hong Kong, where we are
so blessed with the sunshine that most countries
aren't. But we cover up and we use sunscreen
to protect ourselves from cancers, but also.
in Asian skin, there can be a pigment that doesn't
absorb vitamin D. And so... you know having that
vitamin d3 supplement can be with some k2 with
some k2 yeah yeah so for women's health moving
forward and also vitamin d you know helps boost
your mood and your gut health as well your immune
system so and you can't really overdo vitamin
d but just even like 500 iui or a thousand iui
should should international units should be okay
yeah i think i'm taking 10 000 are you are you
on the pure encapsulation no i've got a liquid
form so i take um it's like i just you know drop
two drops of two five thousands have a k2 with
my collagen and a few few other bits yeah are
there any other either supplements or lifestyle
measures that you recommend kind of across the
board for women that are preparing for their
best menopause or going through menopause most
women go through menopause naturally through
you know early 40s you start your estrogen starts
to drop so you will be going through some transition
you may not feel anything until you're maybe
in your mid to late 40s so the average age of
menopause is 45 to 55 you know but when you are
in your 40s you're you're more confident just
in life right and you have the ability to put
more boundaries in place in whatever form they
may take you know that could be alcohol doesn't
serve me anymore. Or, you know, I like this alcohol.
I don't want to drink that. And just choosing
and having the confidence to... Not giving a
shit to say no, right? Well, not being a people
pleaser as well, you know, like we may have been
in different times. And that can help reduce
stress. And stress, you know, and doctors always,
you know, I hear this all the time, you know,
women, when they do eventually go to ask for
help, doctors say it could be stress. And it
can be causing all this inflammation. So one
of the biggest lifestyle things that I chat to
with women is start reducing your stress. Put
those boundaries up. Recognize, particularly
working in the workplace, is there any cyclical
times in the year that you know? they're going
to be stressful periods that you can then put
the management tools around that. Who do you
talk to? Where are you getting your sleep? Are
you getting enough sleep? You know, I work with
a lot of global companies and they're on calls
at night and, you know, and then they have to
get up and do their job in the morning or they've
got kids and, you know, and then they're going
through this transition and they're just blindsided
by life and being able to put your hand up and
say, you know, this, I can't do this anymore.
Or, you know, delegating some of the calls or
is this necessary you know not having meetings
for meetings as well so reducing stress in your
life nutritionally sometimes magnesium can help
a supplement can help reduce you know some of
the stress ashwagandha ashwagandha yes maca powder
can maybe give energy as well but these are all
personal things you know if you're a food first
kind of person if you have the the means if you
have the desire to eat well you should be getting
a lot of this through your diet and some supplements
may benefit that like omega -3 can help reduce
inflammation but also help with your brain health
and the vitamin d3 i would definitely recommend
sleep magnesium glycinate you know to to help
in whatever form that comes for me personally
my digestion really suffered um and also because
i had a lot of radiation around the pelvic area
and so i take magnesium citrate as well as a
really good and that so magnesium citrate is
is like a little it's not a laxative but it can
help push things along we can push it along that's
no that's an old bodybuilder trick yes there
was this product back in the day when i was like
kind of in that world and it's called mag 07
And it was like 700 milligrams of magnesium citrate.
And that would just blow you right up. So yeah,
it is a mild to severe laxative effect. No, but
yeah, but it's again, great for healthy digestion
in proper doses. I am not recommending anyone
take the bodybuilder dose. So please leave that
here. If you have got the means, do go to a registered
nutritionist or dietician, you know, somebody
who's qualified to work with women at this age
and who understands. the symptoms that you're
going through and can really help you target
those areas, you know, and support you with that.
And can put them all together. Put the pieces
together. Because it's a multidisciplinary kind
of holistic approach, you know. So mental health
is definitely, be aware of your mental health.
And if it's something that's negatively impacting
your world, your day -to -day quality of life
and your work, please seek help. There are resources.
And most organizations do have mental health
support. access it it's there for you go and
use it and if you need extra on top of that then
please go and see a doctor to get extra maybe
medicinal support for that as well we're hearing
more and more about creatine now sort of creating
for brain health creating for muscle for endurance
what are your thoughts on that for women during
perimenopause or even those who have sort of
passed menopause do you think they should be
taking it as well yeah i would start with three
um and just make sure you are well hydrated.
And, you know, it seems scary. And a lot of women
that I meet, you know, when I met two of them
yesterday, I want to do it naturally. And it's,
you know, creating. Did you explain how much
meat that is? Like me and I'm, I'm a avid meat.
I mean, we are sponsored by the meat club TFF
12, but, and we eat a ton of it. Yes. Do you
realize how much more it would take to get three
to five grams? You know, five grams is two kgs
of beef. So it's so much. And, you know, even
just that, that, three grill arms at a maintenance
level for women, you know, that could really
impact your brain health and retain your muscle,
which can give you body confidence, which gives
you just confidence, you know? So yes, I definitely
recommend that. And particularly for those women
who may be listening and they are aged, you know,
in their sixties, you know, eating a lot of protein,
you know, you have to train your gut to take
on, you know, a lot, a lot of protein, even eating
like say a chicken breast that maybe has 40 grams
or, you know, of protein in it. That's a lot
in one sitting for women, particularly at an
older age when they're not used to possibly having
done that historically. And so even a protein
supplement might be beneficial for those women
also who want. and feel like intermittent fasting
is benefiting them it's not a right or wrong
it's a lifestyle it's but you you won't get enough
protein in your day if you do it because you're
only eating two meals you won't be getting enough
fiber so you need to make sure that you are increasing
that in another way and a really good way of
doing that is having a protein powder in a shaker
bottle that you can just have a drink you know
as a snack mid -afternoon and then the fiber
you know maybe adding fiber to your shake, like
some psyllium husk or whatever form you might
take it. Because if you are doing intermittent
fasting, you need to make sure that your gut
health is good as well. Absolutely. And I love
that you just brought up a protein shake, by
the way. You know, after this creatine discussion,
you know, I always think about, you know, the
whole marketing scheme of shrink it and pink
it. Right. If you want something to appeal to
women, shrink it and pink it. And I'm literally
asking for your brainstorm ideas here, Lisa.
How can we get women to normalize just drinking
protein shakes? I honestly think the visual of
the shaker bottle, like what a shaker bottle
looks like, you know what it looks like with
a little ball inside. I feel like like when women
see that they're like repulsed by it or it just
it reeks masculinity. How are we rebranding protein
shakes so that women are putting it on their
desk and sipping it through the day like what
you just said? give me give me your best idea
it's a tough one because i think it's just a
key and it's education and knowledge like why
is this going to benefit me but also it's Some
protein checks cause diarrhea, you know, also
fair point. You need to have the right protein
check. So it has to come from the right source.
And then some women are vegetarian, vegan for
many different reasons. And and so, you know,
you do you have a plant based protein there?
And, you know, one good way of doing it is is
possibly, you know. putting that into pantries
in workplaces, you know, and having it be visible
in the work snack cabinet and stuff like that.
And people, you know, having that. And also protein
shakes are associated with exercise. So women
who don't necessarily go to the gym, they may
do yoga. They may feel that they don't want to
take a protein shake. And you know what? I don't
take a protein shake because I eat food. And
that's my choice because I love food. So I get
my protein through food. And that's, And I just
don't find it palatable either. But if you're
not getting it through your food, you have to
get it from another source. So this is another
option. If you are getting enough protein at
each meal, you don't have to take a protein shake.
It's a choice. So I'm not an advocate that every
woman has to take it. But yes, if you are limited
with money or you're limited with, you know,
the means or you're traveling or protein shakes
is a great alternative. Or do what Amanda does
and pop it in your ninja. creamy and make a protein
ice cream delicious ice cream anything you can
put it in your oats yeah yeah which i also actually
did this morning it's like i should openly the
1001 ways to use your protein powder because
i use it all the different ways my favorite is
with cottage cheese um i know you don't like
vanilla protein but vanilla protein in cottage
cheese with some fruit and some sugar -free granola
it is amazing it's like cheesecake for breakfast
yeah actually that is with like it's like 50
50 grams of protein in like one meal it's amazing
you must be so stuffed I was so stuffed. To be
fair, when I have that in the morning, that's
pretty much my lunch and my breakfast and my
lunch. Yes. And then I'll just have a dinner.
In which case, I mean, I can easily knock back,
you know, a chicken breast. Actually, to be fair,
chicken thigh for me. So I get my protein in
even if I am only having two meals. Yeah. Yeah.
That's good. That's good. Yeah. So I love, you
know, I don't want to preempt your 40s formula
because that is always our last question for
every guest. But I love that you gave us a little
short one liner, which is bank. Link your bones
and build your boundaries. Because I think those
two, you know, there's an instrumental element
of the one and there's a mindset element in the
other, right? How, what is your, what is then
your 40s formula? You know, so if you want to
kind of leave women with the couple of lines
from your expertise that they can deploy when
they need a little bit of bump in this decade,
what is it? Own it. Be unapologetic. Why are
we so afraid to... Say the word menopause. Yeah.
You know, use the word. The more we use it, the
more we normalize it. You know, we are giving
you today important information. But you have
a choice if you want to use that or not. And
that's your choice. So you can use little bits
of it. You can take the protein shake and not
the creatine. You know, you will still be OK.
Go and see the doctor if you need the help. Don't
wait until it's too late. Do the strength training.
Do ensure that you bank your bones because we
are living longer and we do want to make sure
that we have that. quality of life that our mothers
don't my mom has osteoporosis she's 68 you know
like I want to be 85 and still trying to do a
chin up even though I can't but I still want
the ability to try it's never too late but it's
never too late ever and that's it it's never
too late if you are listening and you're over
40 it's never too late if you're under 40 start
learning and putting things in place now yeah
There you go, girl. Preach, you know, use your
youth, but also it's never too late, right? It's
never too late to start. Your body is so incredible.
I've had cancer twice. I'm 13 years in menopause.
I've been through ups and downs and rounds and
rounds. And honest to goodness. Your body is
the most incredible, particularly women. Come
on. Yes. Our bodies are superhuman. Superhuman.
And if you treat it well, it will give you back.
It's like a boomerang effect. If you look after
it, it will look after you. All I want to say
is. Hello, everybody. My name is Jasmine. I'm
42 years old and I'm in perimenopause. Yeah.
Hello, Jasmine. Oh, my girl. You're in the right
circle for sure today. Well, Lisa, thank you
so much for being here with us. We have so benefited
from your expertise and we really appreciate
your views. Thank you, Amanda. Thanks, Jasmine.
Thanks so much for having me. And yeah, I love
Singapore. I love your community. And I hope
everybody can take away one or two things that
can really impact their life. Thank you. Thank
you. One thing that comes up a lot with the women
I work with, and for myself too, is insulin resistance.
It becomes more common in our 40s and it can
show up as energy crashes, stubborn weight gain,
sugar cravings and just feeling off. Yeah, and
it's not just about what you eat. It's about
how your body responds. Even women who eat well
can feel those dips in energy or mood after meals.
Exactly. I tend to eat low carb most of the time
to manage that. But I also think there's space
for smart support when you do want to have carbs.
That's why I rate Avea Life's metabolic control
routine. It's a combination of stabilizer, which
includes berberine, chromium, and white mulberry
leaf water extract, and NMN. These ingredients
are known for supporting healthy blood sugar
levels and energy metabolism. It's a thoughtful
way to support your body when you want more flexibility
with food, especially in midlife when things
can shift. You can find it at avea -life .com.
And use the code FORMULA20 for 20 % off if you'd
like to give it a go. Guys, you know we love
coffee. And if you want to show us some love,
you know you can always get us one. Just visit
buymeacoffee .com slash the 40s formula. Cheers.
Before we go, please remember to hit subscribe
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this community. And we'll be back next week for
more empowering conversations with inspiring
guests. Bye. Check in these mics, check in these
mics. I was telling Naz, I was like, we haven't
had Naz in the studio in a while. Yeah, actually,
that's a good point. Yeah, the adventures of
Naz and Shaz. Yeah. The adventures of Shaz for
a while. I was listening to our episode today.
Honestly, like. Sarah's? Yes. Okay. So this is
a crazy, crazy story. She had brain tumor. She
had a spine tumor. She was a neuroscientist with
a PhD in neuroscience. Then she. changed her
career and became a fashion designer but if you
listen to her story it's one of these ones where
you know you're gonna laugh you're gonna cry
you're gonna feel terrified it's just it's nuts
it's nuts it's a crazy story but so entertaining
and the first tumor she was 39 two small kids
And the second tumor, she was 44. So like, it's
not like she's like, you know, 70. I mean, this
is like happening to a young woman and it was
crazy. And, and yeah, the fashion design thing,
it's not even like she was a neuroscience turned
fashion designer. Yes. Turned fashion designer.
I mean, you know, won awards, you know, she was.
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like, I mean, she, she excels.
She's clearly someone who excels. And then to
get that tumor diagnosis twice. Unreal. Been
there. Yeah. Wow. really that's why i started
the company wow i've had cancer twice no way
that's why i went into menopause wow so medical
yeah i mean so i am i actually started getting
into sort of perimenopause really early on like
i had twins at 36 yeah that's when i started
getting my symptoms and stuff i'm still going
through it because i mean you know it takes a
while but you know when you're going you're through
it and things are off it's just It's off. But
I guess for you, did you take hormones or you
weren't? Oh, I'm still on hormones. Okay. So
you were able to take hormones? Yes. Yeah. Okay.
Cause you know, sometimes. Breast cancer. Yes.
So was yours. Cervical. Oh, I see. Wow. Never
had an abnormal smear. Wow. Had a three centimeter
tumor. Wow. How did they find it? I was bleeding
after sex. Yeah. A lot. So then my husband was
like, let's go. Yeah. Yeah. This can't be right.
Yeah. Yeah. Live in the dream and room. And I
got diagnosed with can't grow. sounds nicer it
actually does it sounds like a beautiful journey
yeah oh wow