Guys, we have some exciting news. The 40s Formula
is going live on August 14th at the Green Collective
at Funan Mall. We are going to dive deep into
the science, myths and struggles around sugar
addiction. Breakfast and coffee are on us thanks
to the generous sponsors, Guzmany Gomez. It's
a small and intimate event with only 15 spots,
so it's first come, first served. Tickets are
only 20 bucks and that includes breakfast and
$5 towards your purchase at the Green Collective.
Come and join us for a conversation that might
change the way you eat. Think and feel. Finding
the right sort of exercise, the right balance,
the right stress level, but also giving your
body that sort of rest and digest state. You're
pushing, pushing, pushing to chase those calories,
to make sure that you're losing weight because
of that. But actually, it's making it harder
for your body to lose weight. If you have 100
calories of broccoli and 100 calories of potato
chips, you're going to have a totally different
biochemical reaction in the body. juggle a lot
and even if we don't feel stressed, our lives
are stressful. Kids who have autism, ADHD...
dyslexia, dyscalculia. Every single one of them,
99 .99 % of them, will have some form of gut
imbalance. Supplements definitely do have a good
time and a place because they fill those nutritional
gaps and unfortunately our food sources nowadays
might not be as full of nutrients as they used
to be. The difficulty is not about the sex hormones
dropping, it's actually about the other hormones
that are having the issue. Our emotions can so
be interlinked with our physiological health.
I think the estrogen -cholesterol link is also
quite an interesting one because that is what
does happen in perimenopause. We are more prone
to heart disease. Hey, and welcome to the 40s
Formula, your go -to place for insightful discussions
on navigating the 40s and thriving in this transformative
decade. We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda,
two women that are passionate about exploring
the challenges and adventures that come with
turning 40 and what lies ahead. All right, before
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meets convenience. So we are so excited to have
our guest Joe Brownlow on the podcast today.
Joe is one of our colleagues here in Singapore
in the nutrition field, but she's got some really
specific perspectives having worked with. Hundreds
of women on issues that are not so expected in
nutrition So we're very excited to have her today
and I want to kick in with one of my favorite
questions for any of us in the field Yes, which
is what is one thing that you see women doing
for their health, right? I'm trying to be healthier
that is actually working against them. I think
for me. It's the over exercising piece Having
fallen underneath that trap myself about five
years ago. I think people see exercise as this
sort of catch -all -lose, calorie counting, that
sort of thing. Calories in, calories out. If
I'm going to do lots of exercise, then I can
eat whatever I want. And I think that ends up
being more of a suppression on the thyroid. You
know, we're talking about hormones today. doing
a lot of exercise actually is a stress on the
body it then suppresses the thyroid which is
your metabolic rate setter for the body that
hormone finding the right sort of exercise the
right balance the right stress level but also
giving us body that sort of rest and digest state
outside of that I think that's a really important
point to make right because you know for someone
like myself where exercise is my literal life
yeah I always try to show Everything I do for
recovery. Yeah, right because people see me and
they think oh, she's just always throwing barbells
around Like that's what she does all day and
it's like no. Well, yes, but also But she'd be
eaten right and I'm definitely not fasting and
I'm definitely sleeping and it's like, you know
You have to show the other side of the coin totally
What are some of those kind of? Brackets or protocols
around exercise that you can help women with
in terms of not over exercising. Okay, it's understanding
how your body reacts later on in the day, so
that you can, you know, if you start to find
that you're not sleeping well at night or you're
getting a massive crash in the afternoon, that
is a sign that your adrenals have been pushed
a bit too hard and that really you need to...
turn it back a little bit or work in a different
way and adding variety is the way to do it. So,
you know, I get some clients who run, you know,
five days a week and that's all cardio and it's
all push, push, push. It's not actually building
muscle allowing for the body. No, it is not.
No, it's pure sort of cortisol depletion in the
end, really, because if you're doing a lot of
running, same with, you know, sometimes say cycling.
that sort of thing. And so to add in the strength
training, the yoga, the stretch, allow the body
to feel that nurturing breath work, that sort
of thing is really, really good. And to include
that as part of your exercise regime, because
I think a lot of the time people go that yoga
is an exercise, but actually you're building
muscle, you're calming the nervous system, and
you're giving it that... nurturing. Sorry, can
we flip side that though? Yeah, I'm gonna argue
that yoga is not really building muscle. And
I'm going to argue that yoga is not enough exercise
for women in their 40s. But what it is doing
is it's allowing the body to have a recovery
day, but also giving it I mean, I see yoga as
I do boot camps, and I do yoga. So a supplement
as as part of my nervous system support. Yeah.
But also you are, you know, when you're doing
a Chaturanga, you're working your triceps, your
biceps, you know, you're holding a plank, you're
sort of, and it's the stretching, it's the opening
of the body that in itself is a form of exercise.
Oh, for sure. Mobility plus flexibility plus
progressive overload, not so much unless you
are getting heavier through your yoga. Unless
you're doing like a workout yoga class, which
there are some, you know, I'm not a big fan of,
I prefer a bit of the oming, you know, because
I want that contrast from what I do. Yin is my
favorite. Or nidra. Yeah, nidra. I've only ever
done it once. And I was like, I didn't realize
nidra means sleep. Yoga nidra is sleep yoga.
This is a lovely practice. Just what I need.
And you know what I've seen in the gym as well.
So somebody might be doing like a strength class
and then in between the sets, they're like going
hard. And I'm like... the whole point of a strength
class and in between is to rest and recover because
you don't get stronger, you don't develop anything
if you are going at it at 100 % the whole time.
You're not gonna burn more calories, you might
burn more calories, but it's gonna be counterproductive.
And so actually, Add in that rest period so that
you can recover and then go harder. It's so important,
but people, you're right, have that mindset of,
right, I need to burn 500 calories, 800 calories,
a thousand calories. And if I stop. Not a fan.
Yeah. Chasing calories is going to leave you
exhausted. And when you set with a cortisol problem.
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you describe what that is? So you said, okay,
if you're over -exercising, you're going to have
hormonal imbalances potentially, you're going
to have more problems. Can you detail those problems?
So I'm someone who's doing HIIT seven days a
week. I don't recover because I got to burn those
calories. I'm making this up, right? Why is that
a problem for me? All our hormones, they have
this merry dance. I think everybody thinks about
hormones being our sex hormones, our estrogen
and progesterone that we lose as we get through
perimenopause. The thing with those hormones
is they also talk to one of our main hormones
is our stress hormone cortisol. It's basically
leading the merry dance with all the hormones.
But you've also got your thyroid hormones, you've
got your insulin, your blood sugar hormones.
So these are really important to keep balanced.
So if you're doing this stressy exercise on a
daily basis, you're boosting your cortisol, you're
basically skewing your cortisol. Interestingly,
if you deplete your cortisol, basically pulling
from your other hormone sources, if you know
what I mean. Especially with something like progesterone,
they tend to come from this sort of a similar
bucket and so... High cortisol, low progesterone.
Progesterone balances out estrogen so that you
don't get heavy painful periods and it's also
that lovely calming hormone. So what we want
is to have a nice balanced cortisol. We can have
high cortisol but then we get that nice drop
later on in the day and then we also then have
enough space to have the... progesterone created
and then also if you've got high cortisol it
then also suppresses the thyroid as I mentioned
earlier. The thyroid will set the metabolism
of every cell in your body so you're having a
suppressed thyroid so it's going to slow everything
down so you're pushing pushing pushing to you
know chase those calories to make sure that you're
losing weight because of that but actually it's
making it harder for your body to to lose weight.
But I'm in my 40s and I really want to lose weight
and I'm struggling. Now, isn't it calories in
versus calories out? Not at all. It's nutrients,
really. You need to count the nutrients. If you
have 100 calories of broccoli and 100 calories
of potato chips, you're going to have a totally
different biochemical reaction in the body. And
our body, our nutrients, basically send us messages
to ourselves. And they have to feel... I come
from a chemistry background so I love the whole
biochemistry and the body is this massive biochemical
equation and if we don't have all those nutrient
cofactors in our body to allow for the proper
functioning of the body then things go a little
awry and that's why Eating a whole dense naturally.
I mean, I would never even think about counting
calories and I don't ask my clients to count
calories it's counting the nutrients and making
sure they're getting a lots of fiber good fats
protein and Allowing for it to be absorbed properly.
So that's a big thing, you know chronic stress
lots of exercise Can actually suppress your ability
to absorb the nutrients in your food. So if you
can work on on boosting the nutrients in your
food, then all the biochemical reactions work
well, so the body feels lovely and safe and calm,
like fasting for women. It's one of those things
that has now been proven that actually having
long fasts, and I myself fell into the trap five
years ago of doing lovely long fasts, lots of
exercise. You guys share more than you think.
totally suppressed my adrenals. I had a massive
crash. I was sort of living in mould and also
chronically stressed through COVID situations.
So what we want to do is boost our ability to
absorb the nutrients by having a really delicious
whole food diet and not to sweat the small stuff.
I'm not saying be puritanical and only eat vegan
food. The odd crisp here and there, the odd chocolate
pudding here and there, that's fine, but it's...
maintaining the variety of fiber and nutrients.
How would I know if I have an absorption problem?
Is this something I see in my blood work? You
can, yeah. You would actually see sort of low
B12, low folate, low iron, maybe low, depending
on whether they tell... do zinc or selenium those
sort of it's something you can see there's in
a basic liver panel you'll be able to see your
total protein so that can tell me whether you're
getting enough protein in your diet your creatinine
is another marker which will tell me whether
you've got enough protein to support your muscle
growth needs blood work can reveal a lot it's
it's very good to understand i mean from a symptom
point of view bloating can be a sign of mal -digestion
and mal -digestion means mal -absorption burping
actually while you're eating or after eating
feeling full quite early on that's also a sign
that you're not breaking there's substances in
the body is um stomach acid and that's that great
substance first line of defense but when we're
stressed we're in our our um fight or flight
state and not in our rest and digest state so
we don't produce stomach acid the stomach acid
needs to trigger the digestive enzymes and bile
to break down the food so bloating is a big one
but actually you can have things like anxiety
or skin problems and stuff like that that also
totally separate from you know the food and the
gut feelings can also be that first line of like,
oh, things are going out of balance. That sounds
like there could be a gut issue, maybe a microbiome
dysbiosis. Would you say there's some kind of
connection then when it comes to the symptoms
of say bloating, low stomach acid that might
affect? or your gut might have an impact on these
things? On your hormones? Or hormones, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I call it the first
brain actually. I think a lot of people see that
the gut really is very important to... allow
us to assimilate the nutrients and allow for
our neurotransmitters to be created because we
you know serotonin is our happy neurotransmitter
95 % of our serotonin is created in our gut and
that then allows for our ability to have proper
sleep because serotonin is a precursor to melatonin
our sleep hormone, but also it's related to our
gut motility so Having gut motility issues could
be a sign of low serotonin and that would be
combined with say anxiety or depression So if
you're not going for a pape, then you've got
a problem. Yeah, it could be linked to serotonin
Yeah, I always say you got to monitor your cycles
right your menstrual cycle your bowel cycle your
sleep cycle Yeah, if there's something off in
any of those three Yeah, you are not at optimized
health like you need to get something checked
out Yeah now so speaking of optimized health,
you know, you come from a functional medicine
perspective, right? What does that really mean?
So client comes to you? Perfect blood work perfect
right meaning everything in range. Yeah, they
feel like a piece of shit. Yes What do you do
differently? Okay, so I start off with a form,
which is a thorough health history in a symptom
questionnaire. That can give me a lot of interesting
information. So I can read into that form, you
know, whether there's some sort of emotional
stress, physiological stress could be related
to toxins, low nutrients, those sort of things,
hormonal imbalances, symptoms will give the game
away on what's out of balance. And actually,
when you look at blood work, in range is not
optimal. We want to look for optimal ranges.
And so with something like B12, folate or vitamin
D, you could be within range. But if you're low
in range for nutrient markers, that's actually
a sign that you're probably actually low from
a systemic. point of view and so something like
B vitamins they help us detoxify so if you've
got very low B vitamins actually very high B,
B12 can be a sign of liver challenges but I tend
to read and it's all about the puzzle piecing
and that's something that I love and being a
bit of a detective and looking into it and I
tend to spend about an hour prior to meeting
a client with all the data having made quite
a big leaps in understanding who they are as
a person prior, then we meet and we talk and
delve into symptoms. And actually normally in
the meeting, more stuff comes up. And then I
tend to then send out like a protocol which gives
basically an overview of what their blood work
shows, what the dynamics are, which is basically
the health imbalances that are obviously showing
and giving them some lifestyle guidance. So it's
a bit different from seeing a because it's getting
a bit deeper. And I'm always asking why, rather
than saying, that's a diagnosis. It's all about,
why did that start happening in the first place?
And that's getting that bit deeper. What would
you say are the sort of top lifestyle tips that
you would give to clients, sort of in general?
Like, so what are the main things that you see
come up, you know, that people need to work on?
Sleep, yeah, big one. You know, people saying,
but I get to sleep at about 11, 11 .30, but I'm
scrolling my bed for the first, you know, that,
you know, sleep tends to be a big one, especially
I think with women as they go through perimenopause,
there's a, you know, that progesterone dropping
is a killer for the sleep. We as women, you know,
you're listening. audience, they're all female.
I'm assuming they're all female. Yeah, I mean,
you know, our husbands, my dad, yeah, pretty
much, yeah, 99%. I think we juggle a lot. And
even if we don't feel stressed, our lives are
stressful. And so it's understanding that doing
a little bit of stepping back and breathing and
giving prioritizing ourselves rather than we
focus on the kids and it's all about the kids
and you know bringing some money in and supporting
our husbands and you know so I think it's it's
stepping back and saying you've got to have some
time out to breathe you've got to have that proper
sleep hygiene to support your sleep because sometimes
it's just a question with sleep a question of
coming off a device an hour before they go to
bed and Having a nice hot bath or not too hot,
but you know a bath I love, you know breath work
and nervous system calming strategies and Putting
your feet up the wall. That's what I do every
night bringing your cortisol down to attain that
much better sleep and giving yourself permission
to do that and I think that's Those are key.
And you mentioned, you know, putting yourself
first, right? Making yourself a priority. You
have had your own health challenges. You know,
you've been very vocal about your journey with
Hashimoto's, which Jasmine has also experienced.
What insights have you gained in your own health
journey that have kind of affected how you now
work with clients? Oh, gosh. Do you know, I feel
like I'm living my client, basically. Yeah, basically.
probably gone through the majority of the issues
that my clients face. I mean, it actually started
with my son when he was six years old and he
had lots of neurodivergent challenges. And so
he was the one that introduced me to functional
medicine. And so working on his gut and seeing
how... I think having personal experience of
reversing these issues has really allowed me
to have... absolute 100 % confidence in the fact
that this process works. And I think if I hadn't
done it, then I might not have the same confidence,
if you know what I mean. And also I can relate
so much to my clients, especially, you know,
when it comes to like gut issues, because, you
know, gut and Hashimoto's are very interlinked.
Same with neurodivergent challenges. You know,
kids who have autism, ADHD. dyslexia, dyscalculia,
every single one of them, 99 .999 % of them will
have some form of gut imbalance which isn't feeding
their neurotransmitters properly. So there's
the confidence that sticking with it and understanding
it's not an overnight process, you know, to make
these changes you've spent half your life building
up to the point of getting a diagnosis if you've
come to me with a diagnosis. Now it's a question
of just settling in and embracing the changes
and learning that stepping into the, it's a bit
tricky at first, making change, but once you're
at that point of, you know, you fall into the
groove with these changes and then they become
the new norm. I come from the least healthy background.
I was a drinker, a smoker, eating rubbish kind
of person for the majority of my life. And so,
you know, it can be done and you can love it.
And that's, I think, Why I'm so happy that I've
experienced it all because I can I can I know
how my client feels Yeah, and you mentioned working
with kids, right? So it's always you know, like
so I give a lot of talks to corporations, right?
And you I'm sure you do the same and you know
I always talk about the three F's right fresh
fermented fibers and it's like how do you? translate
some of those kind of adult messages to a child's
diet, because I do think that, you know, it's
all well and good to say, yeah, you need to have
some kimchi and some natto and some, you know,
but like, then you serve that to a kid and they're
like, pit. You know, how do you kind of get through
that? Huge respect to every mum who has to change
their child's diet. Oh my gosh, in any way, for
any reason. Yeah, allergies and whatnot, yeah.
Unfortunately, our world is quite an unhealthy
place. We live, the norm is unhealthy versus
healthy, and that's, you'll have to step slightly
out. It's sad, isn't it, actually, when you think
about that? That the default being, oh, you know,
you're weird if you eat real food and it's normal
to eat. Crap. Yes. It's when you go to a restaurant
and they serve the kids menu, pizza and chicken
nuggets. Hello, can they not have normal food?
You know, it's, it's, I've stopped ordering off
the kids menu for our kids. They're going to
eat steak just like us. Yeah. Cost of fortune,
but that's, you know, they're eating proper food
because it's not real food. Okay. So it's, it's,
there's, there's a lot of like my recipe book.
I've got lots of lovely, delicious kid -friendly
food. Things like, you know, chicken nuggets.
It's gluten free, crispy chicken that you bake
in the oven with almond meal. It's finding. It's
swapping out and finding what works and what
doesn't work. I think hiding something in a smoothie,
like some green stuff in a smoothie with lots
of banana and berries, that can work really well.
We're a big fan of dips. Anything you can dip
in something else. And starting it early. The
earlier you do it, the better. Trying to get
a teen to change their diet. it's probably much
harder because also they can go especially in
Singapore they've got their independence so they'll
have their little cash card and go into the supermarket
I mean to be honest my my youngest does not have
the healthiest of diets and but I'm waiting for
him to get there you know what I mean he will
get there and it's not seeing it as a transformation
having to do it all in one go is in just slowly
adding in The healthy stuff and then slowly crowding
out so that you don't see they forget. Yeah,
they used to have that Yeah, that's a great thing
about that goldfish memory It's almond meal chicken
nuggets now, so don't worry about what what was
in the past Yeah, so, you know, we were just
talking previously about kind of some of the
things that women do when they self -diagnose,
right? They're like, oh, I'm bloated, so I have
a gut problem, or, you know, I'm not sleeping
well, so my progesterone must be low, or whatever
it may be. How do you feel about kind of the
trend towards self -diagnoses? So if you TikTok,
if you Instagram, you're going to see everything
from like hacking your hormones, vaginal steaming,
you know, liver, liver. What was the documentary
on Netflix where the woman did her own fecal
transplant? And I was like, oh my God. Ain't
nobody needs to be doing that. I think it's good
that the client patient is empowered and will
ask the doctor questions. Unfortunately a lot
of doctors don't have the training to be able
to answer back which can be... quite hard. I
think lots more doctors are becoming more aware
of lifestyle medicine. My husband. Yeah, exactly.
So I mean, there's a lot of information out there.
And some of it is great. Some of it is like rubbish
and misleading and quite hard to. And hopefully
I think I can move the the rubbish out of the
room and give them the evidence. And I think
that understanding the evidence from a you know,
seeing it in their blood work and saying, look
at this. And it's education. And then they get
inspired by the fact that actually they've been
told. And actually, a lot of the time, if they've
read up about it, it might be right. But the
problem is, if you go to a doctor and say, I've
got leaky gut, he doesn't know what to do with
that. So it's like trying to understand that.
what it is and the downstream effects. The treatment
is not something that's that easy to do without
having a bit of guidance. Sometimes women feel
a bit iffy about taking medications for certain
things. Are there any supplements or things that
women can take to help support their hormones,
to help support their gut? that you think, you
know, works in general for most people? Oh, it
depends on what's going on. So, OK, so there's
different hormones that are created. There's
the T4 hormone, which comes out of the thyroid,
and then it gets converted to the active thyroid
hormone. The thyroid sets the metabolism for
every cell in your body. Actually, it needs certain
nutrients to support the conversion and to support
the underlying levels. It needs protein, amino
acids. The T is an amino acid. It also needs
really good liver health. So something that supports
the liver can be, you know, things like bitter
foods, lemon water in the morning, those sort
of things can be really helpful for the liver.
But nutrients like selenium is really important
for the thyroid. Zinc, vitamin A, iodine. I think
a multivitamin can be very helpful. A good quality,
you know, like methylated B vitamin is quite
helpful for people who maybe travel a lot and
they need to have those nutrients. you know,
to be boosted. Also, if the thyroid is slow,
the gut may also not be working so well because
everything slows down. It's a big strong link
between low thyroid and stomach acid being low.
So you're not going to digest the nutrients needed
to support thyroid hormone production. So adding
a multivitamin can fill those gaps and really
help support boosting the thyroid. If somebody
has Within reference range thyroid hormone levels,
it's always about the nutrients to start with
and then supporting the liver to make sure that
you can convert the thyroid hormone into the
active form, calming the nervous system, reducing
stress. Stress, thyroid action don't work well
either. So that's a really good one to work with.
When it comes to perimenopause, I'm a big fan
of adding things like ground flaxseed when it's
later on in the perimenopause phase when your
oestrogen drops. Now with perimenopause, the
progesterone drops to start with, and so something
like magnesium glycinate is a great one to help
with taking it in the evening, helps calming,
it also helps boosting GABA, which is a sort
of calming neurotransmitter. Supplements definitely
do have a good... time in a place because they
fill those nutritional gaps and unfortunately
our food sources nowadays might not be as full
of nutrients as they used to be. We've got over
farming of soil, we've got pesticides, things
like that really make it harder to digest properly
and to get those nutrients on board. Look, I
am never cutting carbs. They're part of my training
plan and they fuel my workouts. And I'm not exactly
keto either, but I do have carbs. I want to enjoy
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20 % off. And I'm hearing you on liver function,
right? I'm hearing you on bitter lemon water,
right? I'm hearing it. But then on the flip side
of that, it always reminds me of this client
that I had. And my husband will laugh when he
hears this story because it's one of our all
time faves. She comes in and she's like, I'm
pretty sure my problem is heavy metal toxicity.
And so we take the full history, right? All the
things, you know, should I exercise like this?
I take the creatine and all that. And then she's
like, and then Tyler's like, my husband was like,
and how many units of alcohol do you drink a
week? And it was like 17. And it was like, OK,
so it might not be heavy metal toxicity. It might
be pickling your liver with the alcohols. What
is your opinion on alcohol liver function and
what is a recommended amount? Oh, my gosh. Yeah,
liver. Well, so I used to be sort of. Not a heavy
drink, but I would be, you know, all puritanical
all week and then have a good old bottle and
a half of wine at the weekends and I actually
stopped drinking six and a half years ago and
I'm quite happy I don't have to drink. I love
it. So when it comes to alcohol, it's not doing
the best job with the liver, really. It's definitely
taking up all the necessary room for your body.
You know, our liver is our main detox organ.
When we throw lots of alcohol at it, then it's
spending all its time. processing that, so it's
not actually doing the job it needs to do, which
is the other toxins that our body is subjected
to. But alcohol also affects your gut health
as well, so it suppresses the good bacteria and
exacerbates leaky gut. So it's not something
that you want to have in large amounts on a regular
basis, certainly not. perimenopausal women because
it's you know high in histamines and histamines
is something that we have trouble breaking down
when we're going through perimenopause. I think
the difficulty as with our society is that there
is a big trend that you know, you can't bond
with people without alcohol. And I think there's
an element of having to step out of that need
to please other people to drink and to just,
you know, I take kombucha everywhere and I'm
quite happy about it. Sneak it into bag. Yeah,
absolutely. You got to do with protein too sometimes,
you know, it's like if you're going to the vegan
restaurant, here we go. Protein powder in the
bag. You mentioned perimenopause and I love your
perspective on perimenopause, which is that it's
not this like terrible event and it's not this
like slow decline to your death. It's a wake
up call. What do you mean by that? I think the
realization that living at a sort of live fast
die young kind of rate is not the way forward
and normally perimenopause is the thing that
pulls you back from that type of behavior and
I think it's a reminder that our body needs nurturing
and actually to Yeah, give yourself the right
nutrients, sleep, water, nutrients, food, calming
the nervous system. All those things will give
you that positive outcome when it comes to perimenopause.
I like to sort of empower. my clients to understand
that it's it's just a change in your Lifestyle
and it's not going to be the end of the world.
We all have to go through it, right? Ideally,
right? We're lucky if we're lucky we get to see
the other side Do you find that women who have
got and not a great lifestyle that probably sounds
a bit better Optimized their perimenopausal symptoms
are Yeah, absolutely, 100%. What sort of things
are you seeing then with women who are really
struggling with symptoms? The difficulty is not
about the hormones dropping, it's about not about
the sex hormones dropping, it's actually about
the other hormones that are having the issue.
When our estrogen, first our progesterone drops
and that can lead to sort of poor sleep. The
estrogen doesn't drop till a bit later, so if
we can try and calm our nervous system, so stop
the cortisol from being pulled away from our
progesterone production, we can manage it, adding
the magnesium. But if you're chronically stressed,
not sleeping well, not eating a nutrient -dense
diet, then we're going to layer up. issues with
giving that estrogen progesterone balance, which
is what we need to allow for a softer landing
into perimenopause. We have receptors for estrogen
all over our body, the same with progesterone,
and it's not just about the sort of the not ovulating,
it's actually about other symptoms like, you
know, there's a lot. talking about, you know,
frozen shoulder brain fog. Which, you know, if
you have dementia or Alzheimer's in your family,
especially on the female side, having the drop
in estrogen later, you know, can really lead
to. an earlier sort of Alzheimer's diagnosis.
So brain fog, what other things? Osteopenia,
osteoporosis. Yes, osteoporosis. Yes, absolutely.
I mean, it's, estrogen supports your neurotransmitter
balance, whether you're happy or sad. So there's
so much. And if you have the right nutrients
on board, neurotransmitters need nutrients to
create them. So they need the B vitamins, they
need the protein. So if you're getting those
on board, then things don't go downhill as fast
in such a bad way. Yeah, I was just listening
today to one of Peter and Tia's AMAs, and it
was exactly that. It was like, unfortunately...
age is going to decline us in every category,
right? Like you will not be as powerful as you
were at 20 that you are at 40. Like decline is
inevitable, but the rate of that decline can
be slowed by some of these lifestyle factors.
And I think that's what's important to hear.
It's not that you will be a superhero for the
rest of your life. If you, you know, take a magnesium
glycinate at night, but what you might experience
is an easier journey through this inevitable,
slow, gradual decline. You know, again, I use
the word declines. I know you don't love that,
but it's like there. There is an easier path
that you can tread that is completely within
your control. To focus on that rather than seeing
HRT as a magic pill because HRT will be filling,
they'll be adding more hormones. And if you have
experienced, there's a dynamic called estrogen
dominance which say something like PCOS, endometriosis,
if you've had those diagnoses, that's a sign
of estrogen dominance. But if you've been experiencing
it through your life, and you are getting near
to, you know, your progesterone's dropped, then
your estrogen dominance will probably be more
exaggerated. So if you've had poor, heavy periods,
pain during your periods, anxiety, PMT, those
sort of things. So they're signs of high estrogen.
So when it comes to nearing the end of perimenopause,
if you start adding in estrogen HRT at that point,
you're going to fuel a fire of higher estrogen,
which will not be a pleasant roller coaster ride
for you. and the estrogen does love to go a little
bit haywire at the end of your perimenopause
journey. So trying to hold off the estrogen HRT
till after your periods have virtually stopped,
progesterone maybe add in a bit earlier because
that's the one that really will help calm us,
then that will be the solution rather than adding
it in a couple of years before your periods are
finished. It might not be helpful. So timing
matters when it comes to HRT. And type. And type.
So how about that number three hormone that is
of great interest to myself, testosterone. Talk
to me about that. Strength training is a great
way of... Keeping your testosterone nice and
strong darn right ladies. Yes zinc is also another
one Testosterone doesn't it's slowly changing.
So it's not going to go up and down So it is
very much lifestyle based, you know having zinc
this zinc is really supportive of testosterone
as well if you really are feeling drained and
you're showing very low levels of testosterone
and It could be that there's from a functional
perspective. You can convert more to estrogen
than down the testosterone route So it could
be you know lifestyle that poor lifestyle choices
are. supporting a higher estrogen and lower testosterone
is in working on getting rid of the estrogen
and taking aromatase inhibitors so that it can
stop that conversion. Oestrogen needs to be detoxed
from the body as much as any other toxin in the
body and having the right B vitamins will help
support that. Just making sure we've got the
right nutrients like fibrous vegetables and good
fats to support the body on that front. Talking
about testosterone. I've got an interesting journey.
So I've been on testosterone for a very long
time now because when I started my perimenopausal
symptoms, my testosterone was low and I started
on basically testosterone and progesterone. But
recently my testosterone shot up very, very high,
almost like nine times the rate it should be,
which is crazy because I was breaking out in
acne. And yes, I did develop better. Yeah, because
I am going through, I am trying to get laser
done, but I was like, hold on a minute. This
is meant to be cutting back on my hair growth
on my legs. And it definitely wasn't. And what
else? A rage. Oh my God. I wasn't sleeping. So
when, when I went to see Dr. Lim, he was like,
your testosterone is super high. Oh shit. But
what I realized was Okay, I was definitely training
harder. And the big one was I stopped my long
term fasting, which must have been suppressing
my testosterone. And inhibiting your muscle growth,
which is nature's testosterone producer. So that's
all. I mean, look, I love fasting. I'm definitely
not fasting to the same level I was fasting before,
but it definitely had an impact on my hormones.
And, you know, I've had to cut back on my testosterone
because naturally, my body. thing. And that's
another vote for know your numbers, right? Like,
you would not have discovered that you'd have
just suffered with those symptoms been like,
Oh, I guess I have acne now. I guess it's been
a plus. And then like, Wait, hold on. Maybe there's
some interrelation with my lifestyle changes
and whatnot. Yes. I mean, we're lucky being in
Singapore. You've got, you know, doctors. coming
out of your ears sort of thing. No shortage of
labs. Yeah, exactly. No shortage. Health insurance
does help. I think if you're in somewhere like
the UK where the NHS, it's pulling teeth to try
and get any form of blood work. In the US, you
better just be rich because there is no NHS safety
net. I empathize with having to wait six months
for basic care, but how about never? Because
if you're in the US, your option might be never.
Yeah, not to get off on a tangent about that.
So can you, you've worked with all these clients
that have kind of had these revelations about
health that are at first unseen or at first unknown.
Can you give us a case study of a client that
you've worked with that had... apparently normal
blood work, but then you saw something in that
that was like, hold on. A lady came to me with
high cholesterol. The doctor was saying, I need
to put you on statins, she was pushing back.
High total, high LDL, high everything. The whole
panel. Not high triglycerides, because she'd
changed her diet. And so, you know, she'd done
as they'd said, and her triglycerides had come
down. And so I chatted to her and I could see
that throughout her life she's had high oestrogen
symptoms. Now oestrogen, it causes thickening
of the bile, which is basically this substance
that the liver creates. that helps to break down
fat and that or emulsify fat as my son will tell
me off if I say break down that's not the right
word she had thickening of bile which was causing
high cholesterol plus a little bit of stress
going on because stress and cholesterol tend
to go higher absolutely and so we worked through
an understanding of you know the estrogen needed
to be worked on in order to help thin the bile.
There's a supplement that she could take that
basically helped to thin the bile as well. We
worked on the estrogen supporting detoxification
pathways and we worked really on that and everything
came down and it was fine. You said she changed
her lifestyle but her triglycerides were fine
and you get those hyper -responders don't you?
So the people who are of lean... body mass who
might go on a low carbohydrate diet and stuff
but you know everything looks fine but just their
cholesterol goes through the roof. So cholesterol
is also linked to chronic stress. the thyroid.
The thyroid sets the metabolism for every cell
in the body so if that slows down then actually
it's harder to clear the cholesterol out of the
body. So I tend to look at those two and then
I also look at the liver and say okay if the
liver isn't struggling a little bit and it doesn't
mean that the liver enzymes are looking... actually
it could be the liver enzymes being super low
that's the issue because there's not enough nutrient
cofactors to support the enzyme production which
works on removing the... supporting the liver
health. I think the estrogen -cholesterol link
is also quite an interesting one, because that
is what does happen in perimenopause. We are
more prone to heart disease. And understanding
that if we can detox our estrogen better, work
on not seeing fat as bad, but seeing actually
what truly is not the dietary support, which
is your sugar and your heavy starch intake, eating
pasta and rice for each meal. as well as having
cake after all. Lots of fruit, you know, fruit...
even though it's got the fiber in is good, but
if you're eating a lot of fruit, then that's
pushing your blood sugar up and that also affects
your cholesterol. Yeah, if you've got insulin
resistance or you're type 2 diabetic, you know,
having a mango is probably not the best option.
No, exactly. Oh my gosh, only when I moved to
Singapore did I become kind of hyper aware of
this like abundance of fruits, where it's like
I have fruits in the morning and I have fruits
after I eat and I have fruits in the afternoon
and it's like these giant bowls of like cut fruit.
It's such an odd practice to me. And again, I'm
from California. I'm from the land of fruits
and nuts. I'm no stranger to eating an apple.
But it's just weird. I feel like here, it's this
really overly abundant servings of fruits. And
the rates of diabetes do not favor that. I don't
think there's a lot of education around, yes,
fruit is good for you. Fruit has nutrients and
fiber, exactly what you said. but it is still
a sugar, and it's going to go straight to your
bloodstream in the exact same way that bowl of
rice is. Your body can't differentiate. And fruit
is fructose, so it has to be sorted, but it's
sort of a liver process by the liver. Yeah, but
again, you know, it's like there's this trend
on Instagram, right? Don't trust any dietician
that tells you not to eat fruit. Well, yes, but
also... It's having the right amount and the
right times and the right... the right fruits,
actually, I think, you know. But I'd say it's
funny. I always expected the fight to be like,
you know, for Singaporeans, they'll fight for
that last grain of rice, right? But no, they'll
fight for the fruits. I find much more than,
you know, you tell them, got to cut rice. No
worries. Fruit is like the last man standing.
Yeah. Interestingly, though, rice, a client of
mine, she actually took on my helper. She got
tested for type 2 diabetes because she wasn't
feeling very well and she had an HbA1c of 9 which
shouldn't be over 5 .7 really. And it was the
rice. Yeah. Yeah. She had to cut. She stopped
eating the rice. And yes, actually it came down.
And people do not think about rice as sweet.
So they don't think of it as diabetes inducing.
But it's like, you know, again, that's more nutritional
literacy around what is a carbohydrate. Right.
And it doesn't have to taste sweet to be to be
a carb. Yeah. To be a carb. OK. We've talked
about all the instrumentals here. Right. OK.
So eat your fiber and get your fermented foods
and check your gut health and all this stuff.
But I think there's a bigger picture here for
women in their 40s. And it's kind of to do with
identity Right. What are the changes in your
identity that allow you? To thrive in this decade
from a personal point of view because I'm 53
now and I feel that the realization that you
can Find new purpose and I think we spend a lot
of time looking after our kids and they've reached
the point of you know, they're starting to leave
school and around this age is when... And you've
put all your heart and soul into these beautiful
creatures that are flying the nest. And then
you're like, oh, what do I do now? Giving yourself
the time to check in with yourself and find something
that you love. This is the opportunity to step
into your power, to find something that you love,
that you can... It could be anything from helping
people to finding something new. For me, functional
medicine is my... newfound love that I discovered
in my mid -forties. It's such an amazing opportunity.
You now have this whole future ahead of you.
So to understand that this in itself, finding
and talking to friends and having that community
to open up emotionally about these things so
that you can find that little glimmer of purpose
will allow your... Our emotions can so be interlinked
with our physiological health, happiness, loneliness.
They've found to be as bad for your health as
smoking 15 cigarettes a day. That was a, I don't
know where that is. That may have been from our
newsletter because that was actually one of our
fabulous Friday Four Play newsletter factoids.
Which please sign up too if you haven't already.
Shameless plug. For me, it's finding that amazing
purpose and to see it as gosh, isn't this exciting,
reframing, you know, rather than going, oh my
gosh, my life is finished because the children
have gone and I've been following my husband,
especially in Singapore, where you follow your
husband on their career journeys. As in, I think
Singapore is probably the best. country in the
world to start a new small business and to really
just there's such a massive community of small
business owners aren't there? Yes. And it can
be baking cakes or it could be learning. Healthy
cakes. Healthy cakes, exactly. Learning something
new, you know, I think that for me is the opportunity
is there. to reframe it and if you're struggling
with it Then to talk to your friends and open
up about it and really you can find it Yeah,
there is such a link between mental health and
physical health and again The gut -brain connection
is a great way of explaining that and I think
you know just the understanding that your thoughts
can poison the water. You know, they can also
sweeten it, but they can poison it. And it's
like if something is going wrong in your body,
you know, if you have this, you hit on bloating
earlier, right? And I would say bloating, I don't
know if you agree, is the number one reported
symptom that we get from like every female patient
client that we see at the clinic. It's like,
I'm bloated, this causes me bloating, I'm bloated
or bloated around my period or whatever it may
be. And I always think like, you know, if there
are cyclical patterns in your bloating, you know,
it could still be a food. You know, meaning like
it could still be something that you're eating.
Every time I have beans on toast, I have this.
But it's like also, could it be cyclical patterns
of thought that are giving you these types of
symptoms? Oh, absolutely. You know, actually
pain, people who have pain in their neck and
their shoulders, that can be a massive sign of,
you know, some sort of emotional stress. So understanding
that and just delving into different things,
you know, trying out new things. I love things
like 9D breathwork or Qigong or you know all
these different modalities. Just go for it and
discover. I don't know, have you done 9D breathwork?
I have not. Tell us a little bit about it. I've
never had a fan. Amazing. So what you do is you
wear your headphones and a mask and breath work.
Normally the traditional sense is breathing through
your nose and that's bringing it in this lovely
parasympathetic state. 9D is a slightly twisted
version where you're breathing through your mouth
and you're basically up regulating. But the process
of up regulating and especially because what
you're listening to is different frequencies.
You're listening to this guy who basically talks
you through some journey. They're called journeys.
and he will ask you to sort of basically open
your mind up and by doing the breath work, you
go into a sort of a slight trance state where
your prefrontal cortex switches off and you go
into your subconscious mind. Wow. And it then
gives you like a, it rewrites your thought processes
around it. So you could cry, you could laugh,
you scream, but because you're in your own world,
you've got your headphones on, it's... basically
opening your body up to change and allows you
to, like I did one yesterday, rewire your brain.
It allows, it basically embeds new thought processes.
So it uses some sort of NLP, neuro linguistic
programming type strategies. So it's mind blowing.
It's definitely. We did have Diana Kramer on,
the co -founder of Recoup, and you know, she
definitely was talking about 90 breath work,
and I still haven't tried it. That was, what,
four seasons ago? So I definitely need to get
with the now and give this a shot. I'll give
you the name of a practitioner. That would be
wonderful. Well, again, we've loved having you
on, Jo, and again, love having you in the community,
but we do have to ask the question that we ask
every woman sitting in this chair. What advice
do you have for women in their 40s? What is your
40s formula based on the wealth of... your experience
in practice. Step into you, yeah, to focus on
loving yourself more and putting yourself as
a priority. At this point is the perfect time
because you're going to be learning how to live
the future you. I have a calendar, a day calendar,
because I'm a hundred years old and ancient.
Which I love, by the way. I love it. I love it
so much. And every, at least, so it's, you know,
it's 365 days, right? And at least I would say
like... 30 times the thought of the day is just
love yourself first or love yourself always yeah
So it's like got all these pithy remarks on all
the other days, you know And it's like love yourself
first and then 20 days later love yourself always
and it's like it's such a recurrent refrain and
we can't hear it enough and Question it if you're
not yeah and do something about it. Yeah, I think
that's the big one Isn't it is actually there
is something you can do about it and it's time
to to look at it. See why and make that change
because if you're not happy you know it doesn't
have to stay that way yeah and you do have to
love yourself first it is really hard to get
through this period if you don't yeah and also
if you can't love yourself first how can you
love others and provide. Yeah. And I think, you
know, putting, not listening to that inner critic,
which I think we've all, you do have to deal
with stuff that happens in life and the world
is not perfect. And so if you're listening, then
also battling inside, then that's not going to
help. So that'll give you some gut trouble. Thank
you so much for being on with us today, Joe.
We've loved having this chat. Thank you. Thank
you. One thing that comes up a lot with the women
I work with, and for myself too, is insulin resistance.
It becomes more common in our 40s and it can
show up as energy crashes, stubborn weight gain,
sugar cravings, and just feeling off. Yeah, and
it's not just about what you eat. It's about
how your body responds. Even women who eat well
can feel those dips in energy or mood after meals.
Exactly. I tend to eat low -carb most of the
time to manage that. But I also think there's
space for smart support when you do want to have
carbs. That's why I rate Avea Life's Metabolic
Control Routine. It's a combination of stabilizer,
which includes berberine, chromium and white
mulberry leaf water extract, and NMN. These ingredients
are known for supporting healthy blood sugar
levels and energy metabolism. It's a thoughtful
way to support your body when you want more flexibility
with food, especially in midlife when things
can shift. You can find it at avea -life .com.
and use the code FORMULA20 for 20 % off if you'd
like to give it a go. Guys, you know we love
coffee. And if you want to show us some love,
you know you can always get us one. Just visit
BuyMeACoffee .com slash The 40s Formula. Cheers!
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for more empowering conversations with inspiring
guests Bye! Well, it's just like I'll never forget
when I got my first tattoo and my dad was like
you might as well get ass tattooed on your forehead
That's a tattoo say to people And then he like
this is again almost as dadly he was like he
was like, you know If I was younger, I would
have gotten like one of those barbed wires around
my arm and I was like, that's very cool. I was
like, I have nowhere to go with that. I was like,
it's a good thing you didn't then. So tattoos
are not for everybody, dad. Oh man.