WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.919 I've come across a lot of women at work who have 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:06.940 it all figured out, but at home, you know, it's 00:00:06.940 --> 00:00:09.820 not necessarily the case. There is a lot of stigma 00:00:09.820 --> 00:00:12.619 around telling people that you are cluttered 00:00:12.619 --> 00:00:15.599 or disorganized. I think it's a signal for me 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:18.620 that we need to make some changes in our life 00:00:18.620 --> 00:00:21.379 and address it really. Holding is really a mental 00:00:21.379 --> 00:00:24.539 condition and, you know, it does affect two to 00:00:24.539 --> 00:00:27.820 five percent of the population. We have to face 00:00:27.820 --> 00:00:31.339 the stuff and this discomfort and trying to understand 00:00:31.339 --> 00:00:34.679 what it is telling us. Take a step back and look 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:37.240 at the benefits that you're going to get by having 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:41.159 a more organized and tidy space. You're the expert 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:44.659 in your life. I'm the expert in organizing. And 00:00:44.659 --> 00:00:48.549 it's only that. Together, we can create systems 00:00:48.549 --> 00:00:51.450 that you're going to be able to maintain. I see 00:00:51.450 --> 00:00:55.070 so many people who don't want to start because 00:00:55.070 --> 00:00:57.909 they're just waiting for the perfect time and 00:00:57.909 --> 00:01:00.789 it never comes. If you're not ready, you know, 00:01:00.850 --> 00:01:03.469 it's going to be too forceful, too painful, and 00:01:03.469 --> 00:01:05.790 it's not certainly the right time to do that. 00:01:22.030 --> 00:01:24.950 Hello and welcome to the 40s Formula, your go 00:01:24.950 --> 00:01:27.310 -to place for insightful discussions on navigating 00:01:27.310 --> 00:01:29.670 your 40s and thriving in this transformative 00:01:29.670 --> 00:01:32.890 decade. We're your hosts, Amanda and Jasmine, 00:01:33.129 --> 00:01:34.790 two women that are passionate about exploring 00:01:34.790 --> 00:01:36.689 the challenges and adventures that come with 00:01:36.689 --> 00:01:52.239 turning 40 and what lies ahead. the founder of 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:55.359 Get Organized and Beyond, and an advocate for 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.719 intentional living. She's passionate about empowering 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:01.920 neurodiverse women who feel overwhelmed by clutter 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:05.120 or struggle with daily life, reclaim their space, 00:02:05.420 --> 00:02:08.960 time, and mental clarity. She's dedicated to 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:11.319 helping her clients develop personalized and 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:14.199 sustainable organizing systems and habits that 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:16.680 align with their unique needs and neurodiverse 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:21.189 strengths. Based in Singapore since 1998, Natalie 00:02:21.189 --> 00:02:23.550 combines her professional expertise with her 00:02:23.550 --> 00:02:26.189 personal journey to provide compassionate and 00:02:26.189 --> 00:02:29.789 effective coaching. So here at the 40s Formula, 00:02:29.870 --> 00:02:33.250 we talk a lot about self -improvement and wellness 00:02:33.250 --> 00:02:35.590 and health, but we've never actually addressed 00:02:35.590 --> 00:02:37.849 something that I know for me personally is a 00:02:37.849 --> 00:02:40.689 huge stumbling block to feeling like I live an 00:02:40.689 --> 00:02:43.909 optimized life. And that is organization and 00:02:43.909 --> 00:02:46.409 clutter. Natalie, we are so happy to have you. 00:02:46.430 --> 00:02:48.789 Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having 00:02:48.789 --> 00:02:50.949 me. First thing I thought of when I thought about, 00:02:51.030 --> 00:02:53.430 you know, again, my personal struggles with organization 00:02:53.430 --> 00:02:56.069 is a quote that I'm telling clients all the time, 00:02:56.090 --> 00:02:59.689 which is how you do anything is how you do everything. 00:03:00.189 --> 00:03:02.270 Do you think that that tenet applies to home 00:03:02.270 --> 00:03:05.080 organization? There's certainly some truth in 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:11.319 it. I guess the outer environment can be the 00:03:11.319 --> 00:03:14.159 reflect of our inner state. In particular, if 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:18.680 you suffer from depression, anxiety, post -traumatic 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:21.259 stress disorder, it's kind of probably going 00:03:21.259 --> 00:03:24.340 to translate in clutter. Not always, but it certainly 00:03:24.340 --> 00:03:27.900 can. There is also the case of neurodiversity, 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:36.289 people who suffer from OCD. ADHD, autism, they 00:03:36.289 --> 00:03:40.830 do face executive functioning challenges, which 00:03:40.830 --> 00:03:44.210 make it difficult for them to plan, to prioritize, 00:03:44.509 --> 00:03:48.110 to make decisions. And then it's going to translate 00:03:48.110 --> 00:03:51.870 also into clutter. It's nothing wrong with them. 00:03:51.909 --> 00:03:54.229 It's just the way the brain is wired, right? 00:03:54.849 --> 00:03:59.169 But sometimes clutter is just the result of a 00:03:59.169 --> 00:04:03.030 lack of organizing skills. necessarily being 00:04:03.030 --> 00:04:06.810 taught by our parents or by our schools about 00:04:06.810 --> 00:04:09.590 getting organized. And then again, it results 00:04:09.590 --> 00:04:12.310 in clutter. Sometimes it's just situational, 00:04:12.469 --> 00:04:15.870 you know, life happens. I would like to claim 00:04:15.870 --> 00:04:19.170 mine is situational. We'll see. Yes. So it can 00:04:19.170 --> 00:04:22.110 be a new baby. It can be the death of a loved 00:04:22.110 --> 00:04:27.069 one. It can be a new job or just a big project 00:04:27.069 --> 00:04:30.250 at work. Or it could be COVID and being stuck 00:04:30.250 --> 00:04:32.720 out of a circle. than at home. And even for the 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:37.259 most organised person, it can translate into 00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:42.079 organising challenges for a while. And then there 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.160 is also, you know, we all have different priorities. 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:48.639 I've come across a lot of women at work who have 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.579 it all figured out. But at home, you know, it's 00:04:52.579 --> 00:04:55.160 not necessarily the case and they don't really 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:57.500 mind. And I think that's OK. We're all different, 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:01.319 right? I think it's only when it starts affecting, 00:05:01.459 --> 00:05:05.120 you know, your relationships in particular, that 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:08.399 maybe you need to do something about it. But 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:10.819 I think, you know, wherever the clutter comes 00:05:10.819 --> 00:05:13.579 from, I think we shouldn't be looking at it from 00:05:13.579 --> 00:05:17.110 a place of shame. And there is a lot of stigma 00:05:17.110 --> 00:05:20.889 around, you know, telling people that you are 00:05:20.889 --> 00:05:23.850 cluttered or disorganized. I think it's a signal 00:05:23.850 --> 00:05:27.529 for me that we need to make some changes in our 00:05:27.529 --> 00:05:31.350 life and address it really. I had a client who 00:05:31.350 --> 00:05:35.350 really struggled with emotional eating because 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.279 she was struggling with the state of her home 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:41.000 she said that the laundry was just getting out 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.060 of control she couldn't keep up with the housework 00:05:43.060 --> 00:05:45.379 everything was just everywhere and then that 00:05:45.379 --> 00:05:49.800 led her to binge binge on biscuits chocolates 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:52.100 things that she shouldn't really be eating and 00:05:52.100 --> 00:05:55.220 i remember when we put in a plan to focus on 00:05:55.220 --> 00:06:00.290 how she could address her her home It really 00:06:00.290 --> 00:06:02.649 helped her manage her eating habits as well. 00:06:02.689 --> 00:06:04.810 Do you find that people have this interaction 00:06:04.810 --> 00:06:08.399 between how cluttered they're? their environment 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:10.680 is to how cluttered their brain or maybe even 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:13.600 their habits are as well? Yeah, completely. I 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:15.560 mean, you know, the case that you're mentioning, 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:20.120 I've seen it many, many times, you know, a cluttered 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:24.800 kitchen and you cannot really prepare food there. 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:27.639 And even if you do, maybe the family doesn't 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.800 eat together because, you know, there is no schedule. 00:06:31.220 --> 00:06:35.819 And then you end up by even, you know, relying 00:06:35.819 --> 00:06:39.189 on. take away food or delivery and you know that 00:06:39.189 --> 00:06:42.490 it's, you know, loaded with fat and sugar more 00:06:42.490 --> 00:06:44.949 than if you were cooking at home. And definitely 00:06:44.949 --> 00:06:48.649 that can impact, yeah, our habits, our daily 00:06:48.649 --> 00:06:51.290 habits. What are the main issues? So thinking 00:06:51.290 --> 00:06:53.269 about women in their 40s specifically, so women 00:06:53.269 --> 00:06:55.709 in midlife, right? I think a theme that comes 00:06:55.709 --> 00:06:58.230 up for us a lot here on the 40s formula is women 00:06:58.230 --> 00:07:00.860 in this age group, we are... often overwhelmed 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:03.079 right we're working full -time a lot of us are 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:05.439 mothers a lot of us are caregiving to elderly 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:08.980 parents a lot going on right sure so why are 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:12.240 we holding on to stuff right why at this age 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:14.779 when i think overwhelm is a bigger issue than 00:07:14.779 --> 00:07:16.879 not having enough to do let's put it that way 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.279 yeah why are we holding on to that stuff and 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.360 accumulating so much yeah it's true we have so 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:24.879 many things to juggle and you know you would 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:28.000 think that by minimizing what you own it will 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:31.480 make your life easier that's for sure but the 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:35.220 reality as human being and especially as women 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:39.019 in our 40s we have accumulated a lot of experiences 00:07:39.019 --> 00:07:44.439 and we impart meaning to our stuff So whether 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:49.360 it's, you know, some hopes for the future, maybe 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:52.540 some memories, maybe some fears even. When we 00:07:52.540 --> 00:07:55.019 have to detach from the stuff, of course, it 00:07:55.019 --> 00:07:58.120 brings a lot of emotional issues and it's difficult. 00:07:58.699 --> 00:08:02.120 There are, you know, many reasons why we tend 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:05.720 to hold on to our things. The first one being 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:09.079 sentimental. you know, things that have been 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.680 gifted to us or things that we have inherited 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:15.160 from a loved one. So it's, you know, there are 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.000 a lot of memories attached and we feel that if 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.339 we let go, we're going to lose the memory or 00:08:20.339 --> 00:08:22.660 there's going to be more distance, you know, 00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:25.759 with the person or the event, you know, in which 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:30.360 we acquire this item. There is also the aspirational 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.639 reasons, you know, we hope to live that type 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:37.299 of life, to be that type of person. But reality 00:08:37.299 --> 00:08:40.159 is not necessarily, you know, representing that. 00:08:40.220 --> 00:08:43.419 I know many ladies who, you know, would like 00:08:43.419 --> 00:08:46.820 to be a great cook, to provide, you know, healthy 00:08:46.820 --> 00:08:50.559 dinner every day, cook from scratch on the table. 00:08:50.620 --> 00:08:53.820 And they are working, you know, 12 hours a day. 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:57.360 But yet they're going to accumulate all the kitchen 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:00.200 gadgets that you can possibly think, you know, 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:03.120 because you think that that's the person you 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.600 want to be. And if you let go of them, then that's... 00:09:05.629 --> 00:09:08.090 you know prevent you from being that person I 00:09:08.090 --> 00:09:09.809 think it must be the same with clothes as well 00:09:09.809 --> 00:09:14.169 I'm hanging on to clothes in my closet that I 00:09:14.169 --> 00:09:16.529 was like I will fit into those one day yes that 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:18.929 one day hasn't come yet yeah I don't know what 00:09:18.929 --> 00:09:21.769 to do like how can I get rid of the stuff do 00:09:21.769 --> 00:09:23.690 you just say just do it you know just close your 00:09:23.690 --> 00:09:25.529 eyes and just chuck it all away like what steps 00:09:25.529 --> 00:09:29.220 are there in Having a clear out of things that 00:09:29.220 --> 00:09:31.919 you no longer use, no longer need. What can we 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:34.419 do? No longer serving you. Exactly, no longer 00:09:34.419 --> 00:09:37.460 serving you. So many ladies can relate to the 00:09:37.460 --> 00:09:41.299 wardrobe, you know, issues for sure. My philosophy 00:09:41.299 --> 00:09:45.559 when it comes to clutter is that we have to take 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:49.419 the time. We have to face the stuff. and the 00:09:49.419 --> 00:09:52.059 discomfort it might bring. We have to understand 00:09:52.059 --> 00:09:55.059 why we are holding on to it. We talk about, you 00:09:55.059 --> 00:09:58.779 know, the sentimental clutter, the aspirational 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:01.080 clutter, and there are other, you know, type 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:04.720 of clutter. But we have to face the stuff and 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.559 this discomfort and trying to understand what... 00:10:07.789 --> 00:10:11.269 it is telling us because unless we face this 00:10:11.269 --> 00:10:15.690 unless um we are able to start rewriting the 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:18.830 narrative behind the stuff then the clutter is 00:10:18.830 --> 00:10:21.529 going to come back my approach and that's where 00:10:21.529 --> 00:10:24.049 for people i deal with a lot of people who really 00:10:24.049 --> 00:10:27.009 struggle to to let go the level of attachment 00:10:27.009 --> 00:10:30.850 it's it's very strong and of course by being 00:10:30.850 --> 00:10:34.049 by their side i can provide this emotional support 00:10:34.049 --> 00:10:37.049 and you know but most importantly to help them 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:40.309 voice out those stories. And quite often when 00:10:40.309 --> 00:10:42.490 you voice out the stories, you realize, well, 00:10:42.669 --> 00:10:45.450 actually it doesn't need to be this way. So for 00:10:45.450 --> 00:10:48.210 me, instead of rushing and pushing yourself to 00:10:48.210 --> 00:10:51.210 make decision that you might regret in the future, 00:10:51.330 --> 00:10:53.669 that's going to create a terrible, you know, 00:10:53.690 --> 00:10:57.629 experience. Then it's better to take your time 00:10:57.629 --> 00:11:00.309 and confront, you know, the stuff and be able 00:11:00.309 --> 00:11:03.580 to rewrite the stories behind it. Can you tell 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:06.700 us a story of a client that you had so basically 00:11:06.700 --> 00:11:09.019 that was really struggling to let go like what 00:11:09.019 --> 00:11:11.600 like was it the sentimental thing or was it the 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.399 aspirational thing and how you got them past 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.360 it because I do feel like we all can maybe identify 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:21.279 or see ourselves in one of those categories right 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:23.200 but then when we think about actually doing it 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:25.820 there's a block yeah so what do you do in person 00:11:25.820 --> 00:11:28.779 that makes that hurdle easier to jump it's interesting 00:11:28.779 --> 00:11:32.840 because i quite actually often hold my client 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:36.460 back they kind of feel pressurized that by having 00:11:36.460 --> 00:11:39.860 an outsider i'm going to be judging them by how 00:11:39.860 --> 00:11:43.279 much they let go off but for me that's not a 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:47.100 successful decluttering i mean for me it's by 00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:50.720 my client who feel 150 confident they making 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:53.259 the right decision that they are ready to let 00:11:53.259 --> 00:11:56.000 go because as i said if there is some hesitation 00:11:56.469 --> 00:11:59.129 then you're going to regret it, you know, down 00:11:59.129 --> 00:12:01.570 the road. And, you know, clutter is going to 00:12:01.570 --> 00:12:03.389 keep entering your life and you're going to have 00:12:03.389 --> 00:12:06.850 to repeat the process. So for me, it's about 00:12:06.850 --> 00:12:10.570 really telling them you have to be 150 % confident 00:12:10.570 --> 00:12:13.929 about what you're going to let go of. And I think 00:12:13.929 --> 00:12:16.330 there is a right time to let go of things. And 00:12:16.330 --> 00:12:19.870 then that removes, you know, the pressure. And 00:12:19.870 --> 00:12:21.990 then you start confronting the stuff. And of 00:12:21.990 --> 00:12:24.309 course, you know, the cortisol level at first 00:12:24.309 --> 00:12:26.789 are going to be very high. But over time, it's 00:12:26.789 --> 00:12:28.529 going to, you know, it's going to come down. 00:12:28.769 --> 00:12:32.809 And I did have a client with a very strong attachment 00:12:32.809 --> 00:12:37.370 to the belonging, especially the children belongings. 00:12:37.769 --> 00:12:42.149 She had missed a period of children life for, 00:12:42.269 --> 00:12:46.570 I think, a few months or years. And, you know, 00:12:46.590 --> 00:12:49.590 a decade later, she just couldn't part with those 00:12:49.590 --> 00:12:52.529 items because that was, you know, a memory of 00:12:52.529 --> 00:12:54.759 that time that she had missed. So again. And, 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.559 you know, and she, interestingly, she wanted 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:02.679 to start with those very emotionally driven items. 00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:05.840 I typically advise my client to start in categories 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:08.980 where we don't have a strong attachment to. But 00:13:08.980 --> 00:13:12.659 she really wanted to start there. And so it was, 00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:15.299 you know, really taking her at her own speed. 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:18.539 And then we started with the clothes and took 00:13:18.539 --> 00:13:21.960 the clothes out. And then, you know, we say we're 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:23.720 just going to have a look at, you know, what's 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:26.120 in. there and then she realized well they were 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.419 clothes that were damaged you know so definitely 00:13:29.419 --> 00:13:33.519 didn't elicit very you know positive memories 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:36.820 so she was able to let go of a little bit of 00:13:36.820 --> 00:13:39.620 this and I think we left it there you know the 00:13:39.620 --> 00:13:43.279 first session then we went back to it and we 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.169 kind of thought about What could we be doing 00:13:46.169 --> 00:13:49.210 with those clothes? And we came up with the idea 00:13:49.210 --> 00:13:52.929 of making a quilt out of some of the baby clothes. 00:13:53.129 --> 00:13:56.490 And there were two ladies, I'm sorry, I can't 00:13:56.490 --> 00:13:58.629 remember the name of their company, but they 00:13:58.629 --> 00:14:01.950 did an amazing job in putting together a quilt 00:14:01.950 --> 00:14:05.309 that she could put on the bed and then enjoy 00:14:05.309 --> 00:14:08.549 every single day without having tons of clothes. 00:14:09.009 --> 00:14:11.740 And then she sees it. It's actually out there. 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:13.700 It's not in a box somewhere. Absolutely. Yeah, 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:17.039 absolutely. She sees it. She enjoys it. And there 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:21.120 is there was, you know, another category of clothes 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.279 that that was really the one that she was most 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:27.299 attached to that she kept in a memory box. I 00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:29.620 mean, in honesty, we started with several memory 00:14:29.620 --> 00:14:32.740 box. You know, for me, it's really an iterative 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:37.679 process. And and that's how she got there. So 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:42.860 I think it's about I think. You know, the fear 00:14:42.860 --> 00:14:46.559 about decluttering, of letting go, is actually 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.019 more to do with the thought of decluttering. 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.799 But when you get to do it, you know, you're going 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:55.679 to quiet the fear and you're going to be able 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.759 to make those baby steps if it has to be. You 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:02.159 know, the idea is to end up with less than where 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.000 you started. It doesn't have to be 80 % of what 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.919 you own. How do you know when the time is right 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:10.799 to declutter? Yeah, I mean, you certainly have 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:16.139 to be ready for it. Typically, people come to 00:15:16.139 --> 00:15:20.240 me when they have tried many times on their own. 00:15:20.779 --> 00:15:23.740 Sometimes they have received judgment from family. 00:15:23.820 --> 00:15:26.080 You know, why would you need this type of help? 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:30.000 You should be able to do it. But deep down, it's 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:33.080 just a feeling of overwhelm. There is, you know, 00:15:33.139 --> 00:15:36.429 they just can't manage. a toll on on their life 00:15:36.429 --> 00:15:39.549 and i think most importantly you know it's uh 00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:42.629 the feeling of overwhelm of guilt of shame the 00:15:42.629 --> 00:15:45.230 self -esteem or the relationship with a loved 00:15:45.230 --> 00:15:47.789 one that you know drive them to take to take 00:15:47.789 --> 00:15:50.070 action i think for me it's very important they 00:15:50.070 --> 00:15:52.669 are ready because if you're not ready you know 00:15:52.669 --> 00:15:55.350 it's going to be too forceful too painful and 00:15:55.350 --> 00:15:58.309 it's not not certainly the right time to do that 00:15:58.309 --> 00:16:00.970 amanda i feel the older we get the more important 00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:03.429 protein is but the thing is not many women are 00:16:03.429 --> 00:16:05.700 eating enough Absolutely. And you know, protein 00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:08.059 isn't just for muscles. It helps with hormones, 00:16:08.299 --> 00:16:11.279 metabolism, staying full longer. And don't just 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.740 guess. Make quality protein a priority. And that's 00:16:14.740 --> 00:16:17.139 why we trust The Meat Club. They deliver ethically 00:16:17.139 --> 00:16:20.240 sourced meats directly to you. You can get grass 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.320 -fed beef, organic chicken, wild -caught seafood. 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:26.539 That is... nutrient dense and packed full of 00:16:26.539 --> 00:16:28.620 the good stuff. And here's the fun part. We want 00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:31.279 to see what you're cooking. Show us your creations 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:34.960 and tag at the 40s formula and at the meat club 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:38.759 SG so that you have a chance to win $250 in the 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:40.899 meat club goodies. Entries will close on the 00:16:40.899 --> 00:16:42.740 5th of June and the winner will be announced 00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:46.179 on the first episode of season six. So come on, 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.620 guys, get cooking. And if you haven't already 00:16:48.620 --> 00:16:51.019 used the meat club, you can and you can save 00:16:51.019 --> 00:16:54.779 yourself $12 off by using code TFF. 12. Head 00:16:54.779 --> 00:16:58.600 over to themeatclub .com .sg, get cooking, and 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:01.600 who knows, you could even get $250 off your next 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.079 shop. Can I give you a real life example? Sure, 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.700 please. Of an anonymous couple, let's call them 00:17:06.700 --> 00:17:11.740 the blims. So the wife, no problem decluttering, 00:17:11.859 --> 00:17:13.940 would throw away everything in the house, does 00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:15.920 not have sentimental attachments, pretty okay 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:20.799 with it. The husband, despite expressing sentiments 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:24.190 to this degree, struggles to throw away, for 00:17:24.190 --> 00:17:26.509 example, old medical textbooks, you know, where 00:17:26.509 --> 00:17:28.910 like, you know, it's three editions later, you 00:17:28.910 --> 00:17:30.670 know, like that information isn't even relevant 00:17:30.670 --> 00:17:32.490 anymore, right? But no, I need that because I 00:17:32.490 --> 00:17:34.009 had that when I was in medical school. You know, 00:17:34.009 --> 00:17:36.630 that was a seminal textbook for me. How do you 00:17:36.630 --> 00:17:39.210 work with couples where, you know, or families, 00:17:39.230 --> 00:17:40.789 let's say, or, you know, whatever partnerships, 00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:45.630 whereby there is a difference of opinion on what 00:17:45.630 --> 00:17:48.390 needs to go and what needs to stay? It's, I have 00:17:48.390 --> 00:17:52.039 to say, you're... Not the only one. Again, not 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:54.900 me. This is our hypothetical situation. Sorry. 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:58.000 Yes, I'm assumed. Just in case my husband's listening. 00:17:58.059 --> 00:18:02.990 Go on. I see a lot of families where one side 00:18:02.990 --> 00:18:06.930 is kind of, you know, needs order and is ready 00:18:06.930 --> 00:18:09.769 to declutter and to let go. And the other person, 00:18:09.910 --> 00:18:12.589 let's put it nicely, you know, doesn't see it 00:18:12.589 --> 00:18:15.450 as a problem. That's definitely a challenge. 00:18:15.789 --> 00:18:18.670 I think I always advise my client to start with 00:18:18.670 --> 00:18:21.089 your own space. You have to come clear. You have 00:18:21.089 --> 00:18:25.509 to lead by example. You have to do a clear out 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:28.150 of your own space. And sometimes you have to 00:18:28.150 --> 00:18:30.990 close your eyes on. their own spaces as well. 00:18:31.130 --> 00:18:35.890 I understand that. I think when it comes to, 00:18:35.890 --> 00:18:38.849 you know, shared spaces, that's where the main 00:18:38.849 --> 00:18:42.269 challenges can be. We tend to focus too much 00:18:42.269 --> 00:18:45.430 on the stuff, on the clutter and be nagging the 00:18:45.430 --> 00:18:49.410 people around it. I always suggest to, you know, 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:51.869 take a step back and look at the benefits that 00:18:51.869 --> 00:18:54.369 you're going to, you know, going to get by having, 00:18:54.369 --> 00:18:59.289 you know, a more organized and tidy space. I 00:18:59.289 --> 00:19:02.170 remember a few years ago, I had a Singaporean 00:19:02.170 --> 00:19:05.079 lady. She was living. in the US with her husband 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:09.279 and children. And she asked my help for a mom 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:14.299 here. And the mom was accumulating a lot of things 00:19:14.299 --> 00:19:17.220 and has been using the daughter's room, you know, 00:19:17.259 --> 00:19:20.740 as a storage room. And as a result, when the 00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:23.160 daughter was visiting, she couldn't, you know, 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.740 stay with the mom or it was very crowded and 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:30.400 not really very nice. So the daughter, you know, 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:34.000 kept telling the mom to do clutter and you know 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.180 talking about how You know, it was difficult. 00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:40.059 If you don't declutter, your daughter is not 00:19:40.059 --> 00:19:42.099 able to come. You're not going to enjoy your 00:19:42.099 --> 00:19:45.019 children, you know, presence as much as you would 00:19:45.019 --> 00:19:47.960 like to. Then that's kind of got her started. 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:51.059 So it's about looking at what are the benefits 00:19:51.059 --> 00:19:54.279 for everyone. But of course, you know, sometimes 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:57.119 you're going to have to make also some some find 00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.140 some common ground. Yeah, that's the reality 00:19:59.140 --> 00:20:02.359 of, you know, of things. So that example you've 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.430 just used. Would you say that the mum was holding 00:20:05.430 --> 00:20:08.230 on to... and accumulating things because her 00:20:08.230 --> 00:20:10.390 daughter had gone and it was almost like a replacement. 00:20:10.589 --> 00:20:12.690 Do you think that might have been the situation 00:20:12.690 --> 00:20:15.529 or am I just looking too much into it? No, I 00:20:15.529 --> 00:20:18.970 mean, it might have been. I can't answer that 00:20:18.970 --> 00:20:23.869 question for sure. If I remember, the mom was 00:20:23.869 --> 00:20:28.329 a teacher in the past and you know how they tend 00:20:28.329 --> 00:20:32.589 to accumulate a lot of books, a lot of paper 00:20:32.589 --> 00:20:35.309 in particular, and there was a lot of that. So 00:20:35.309 --> 00:20:38.880 was she... it might well have been, but I'm not 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:43.160 sure. I think it was more, I don't like using 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:46.640 the word holding, but yeah, cluttering tendencies 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:50.569 for sure. Yeah. And was that a success story? 00:20:50.710 --> 00:20:52.990 Did the mom hear that message of, you know, your 00:20:52.990 --> 00:20:54.910 daughter can't visit here if this room doesn't 00:20:54.910 --> 00:20:58.769 get cleaned up? Yeah, it was amazing, you know, 00:20:58.829 --> 00:21:02.769 that she, it was really baby steps, but she was 00:21:02.769 --> 00:21:07.289 willing to try and she really put some efforts 00:21:07.289 --> 00:21:11.089 into it, yeah. Do you find that you have people, 00:21:11.210 --> 00:21:14.779 women, who want to declutter and they'll go through 00:21:14.779 --> 00:21:18.339 a phase like maybe once every few months of getting 00:21:18.339 --> 00:21:21.759 rid of the crap but it builds up again and then 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:24.220 they're back at square one how can you motivate 00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:27.640 or help women change those habits so it doesn't 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.039 get to a point where everything piles on and 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:31.579 then they have to start again at square one again 00:21:31.579 --> 00:21:34.240 rather than you know keeping it I guess, steady 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.319 all the way through. Yeah. First of all, we have 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:42.500 to accept that clutter didn't accumulate overnight 00:21:42.500 --> 00:21:45.299 and it's not going to disappear overnight either. 00:21:45.500 --> 00:21:48.079 Yeah, I think for me, you have to look at it, 00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:52.240 you know, as a journey. and to start somewhere 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.359 and, you know, to build progressively onto it 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.660 rather than doing a big decluttering exercise 00:21:59.660 --> 00:22:03.160 and just leaving it there. But I think there 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:06.150 is a lot of part, you know, it's... If you really 00:22:06.150 --> 00:22:08.170 want to stay clutter -free, of course you need 00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:10.529 to start decluttering, but you also need to put 00:22:10.529 --> 00:22:13.750 in place organizing systems. Those systems, you 00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:16.230 know, they're going to have to rely on habits. 00:22:17.009 --> 00:22:20.230 And then it's a question of practicing them so 00:22:20.230 --> 00:22:22.750 that you can prevent the clutter from coming 00:22:22.750 --> 00:22:26.589 back. And another thing is to try to limit as 00:22:26.589 --> 00:22:29.230 well as much you bring in so that you don't, 00:22:29.230 --> 00:22:32.440 you know. keep adding to the clutter. Of course, 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:36.299 it's easier said than done. It can be quite helpful 00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:40.339 as well. But I mean, habits, you know, can be, 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.400 I mean, starting with organizing story could 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:48.299 be to find a home to. every item that you own. 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.799 And the habit will be to put the item back to 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.440 the place where it belongs to. And, you know, 00:22:54.500 --> 00:22:57.059 if you try to do that, instead of putting things 00:22:57.059 --> 00:23:00.079 down, to put them away right away. And if it's 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.319 possible, if you have find a home for all your 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.799 belongings, then, you know, it's going to prevent 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:10.380 pile of stuff accumulating and later on to have 00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:14.180 to go back to it. So those small little, you 00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:17.009 know. habits, it's going to make the difference 00:23:17.009 --> 00:23:20.829 into the buildup. Yeah, I am so glad that you 00:23:20.829 --> 00:23:22.789 brought up systems because this is, you know, 00:23:22.789 --> 00:23:25.890 as a coach, obviously, that's how I coach changing 00:23:25.890 --> 00:23:28.190 your lifestyle for health, right? It's like you 00:23:28.190 --> 00:23:30.609 have to build an environment of systems that 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:32.890 you can execute on repeat. It's all great and 00:23:32.890 --> 00:23:34.549 well if you can follow a meal plan for a week 00:23:34.549 --> 00:23:36.410 or something, right? But when you travel, then 00:23:36.410 --> 00:23:38.660 what? You know, you've lost your system. So I 00:23:38.660 --> 00:23:41.359 love the idea of systems. I remember when I did 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.980 hire a home organizer. This is years ago. This 00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:46.859 would have been 2012. I was single. That was 00:23:46.859 --> 00:23:49.519 years ago. Yeah. We're talking a long time ago 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.720 and I was single. So different challenges. Let's 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:54.480 put it this way. But I remember one of the lasting 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.200 things I will never forget that she helped me 00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:59.210 with is setting up a system in the kitchen. that 00:23:59.210 --> 00:24:02.289 flowed with what my morning routine was, right? 00:24:02.410 --> 00:24:04.849 So I would lose time. One of my concerns back 00:24:04.849 --> 00:24:06.269 then was like getting out of the house quickly 00:24:06.269 --> 00:24:07.769 because I used to leave for work at 4 .30 in 00:24:07.769 --> 00:24:09.230 the morning. So like I was like, I need to like 00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:11.470 get out, you know? And she was like, what do 00:24:11.470 --> 00:24:12.690 you need to do before you leave the house? I 00:24:12.690 --> 00:24:13.849 was like, I need to make coffee and eat breakfast. 00:24:14.289 --> 00:24:17.710 So we set up a coffee station where my mug was 00:24:17.710 --> 00:24:19.549 there. Like my mug was right above my coffee. 00:24:19.609 --> 00:24:21.250 And I know that seems really obvious, right? 00:24:21.329 --> 00:24:23.730 But previously my coffee maker was on one side 00:24:23.730 --> 00:24:25.980 of the kitchen. My mugs were over here. And she's 00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:27.880 like, move your mugs over there, even if they're 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:29.519 separate from all the other glasses, you know, 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:30.660 because you're not looking for other glasses. 00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:32.779 You're looking for mugs. So put them next to 00:24:32.779 --> 00:24:34.359 your coffee machine because that was where the 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:36.259 plug was. I couldn't read. And, you know, and 00:24:36.259 --> 00:24:38.559 then put your your coffee that you're going to 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:41.420 brew, put it in the filter the night before so 00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:43.740 that instead of getting it out, opening it, portioning, 00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:45.640 you just push the button. She's like she's like 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:47.700 set up the systems the night before that then 00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:50.319 make that easier. Right. I tell you all of this 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:54.119 to say that I think. There's a huge difference 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:57.059 between the ability to declutter and the ability 00:24:57.059 --> 00:24:59.539 to set up systems. Yes. And I think that second 00:24:59.539 --> 00:25:02.359 one is more challenging. It depends. Actually, 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:05.700 everybody is different. But I think when I look 00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:08.299 at organizing, sometimes people try to make. 00:25:09.069 --> 00:25:12.130 to put system in place, but are too complicated. 00:25:12.450 --> 00:25:15.569 So you really have to put system in place with 00:25:15.569 --> 00:25:19.089 the minimum number of steps to complete so that 00:25:19.089 --> 00:25:21.910 things can be done repetitively, as you said. 00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:26.009 Make it easy. Exactly. I was actually very recently 00:25:26.009 --> 00:25:29.529 working with a client and she was organizing 00:25:29.529 --> 00:25:33.609 a chest of drawers with personal items in there. 00:25:33.950 --> 00:25:40.210 And in there was the jewelry box. And she was 00:25:40.210 --> 00:25:44.559 telling me. Whatever I do, you know, when I come 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:47.960 back from work or an event at night, I remove 00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:51.079 my jewelry and it will stay on top of the dresser. 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.240 And so we look a bit, you know, deeper what was 00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:57.779 happening. It turns out that she had the jewelry 00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:01.519 box inside the drawer. So every time she needed 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:04.960 to access or put away the jewelry, she had to 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:10.470 open the drawer, take the box out. open the lid 00:26:10.470 --> 00:26:14.750 of the jewelry box, take or put away the item, 00:26:14.950 --> 00:26:17.569 close the lid, put it back in the drawer, close 00:26:17.569 --> 00:26:20.009 the drawer. Obviously, when you come back from 00:26:20.009 --> 00:26:22.549 work and you're tired, this is not going to happen. 00:26:22.809 --> 00:26:26.250 So the idea was just actually to remove the lid 00:26:26.250 --> 00:26:29.849 from the jewelry box. So just by doing that, 00:26:29.910 --> 00:26:32.930 you just had to open the drawer. put the things 00:26:32.930 --> 00:26:35.430 in and close the drawers three steps instead 00:26:35.430 --> 00:26:39.869 of seven or nine you know and then it was the 00:26:39.869 --> 00:26:43.190 jury went back in so we really or when we talk 00:26:43.190 --> 00:26:45.690 about organizing system we have to make things 00:26:45.690 --> 00:26:49.450 you know simple that's gonna help us based on 00:26:49.450 --> 00:26:52.430 our on our lifestyle as you say based on your 00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:56.109 needs based on you on your habits as well so 00:26:56.109 --> 00:26:58.890 that's you know it just flows naturally and again 00:26:58.890 --> 00:27:01.299 maybe thinking outside the box like pop the lid 00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:03.720 off that jewelry box. That's not impossible, 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:06.640 but she may have never seen that solution because 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.720 she was so thinking about this is my jewelry 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:11.299 box and it's in this drawer. I think that's why 00:27:11.299 --> 00:27:14.259 having another set of eyes in anything that you're 00:27:14.259 --> 00:27:17.119 trying to improve, get a pro to look at you for 00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:19.140 a while because they will see things that you 00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:22.210 don't see. Yeah, for sure. How did you get into 00:27:22.210 --> 00:27:24.690 this line of work, Natalie? How did this become 00:27:24.690 --> 00:27:27.990 a job, a career for you? It's been a professional 00:27:27.990 --> 00:27:33.430 job for close to 12 years now, but it's actually 00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:37.230 a passion that started as a child. I think actually, 00:27:37.369 --> 00:27:40.799 looking back, I think it was... a calling. It's 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.740 a calling to me. But yeah, it started as a child. 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.359 I was raised in a kind of disorganized environment. 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.119 My father tended to accumulate everything that 00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:54.519 would come his way. He had been born during the 00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:57.400 Second World War, a lot of privation. And of 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.039 course, you know, he was keeping everything. 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.539 And my mom was a very last minute person, you 00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:06.500 know, around 8 p .m., although she was, you know, 00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:10.039 a housewife. She would wonder what to put, you 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.759 know, on the table for dinner. And I mean, as 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:15.740 a child, I, you know, I needed the structure 00:28:15.740 --> 00:28:20.240 and order. And then I started to kind of implement 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:23.359 some systems at home to have little corner organized. 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.660 And I loved it so much that when I was actually 00:28:26.660 --> 00:28:29.500 invited to my friend for some play date, I was. 00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:32.299 quite often ending up helping me helping the 00:28:32.299 --> 00:28:35.839 parents to tidy a little corner and i i love 00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:41.079 it as a kid to be friends with my kids yeah yeah 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:43.599 i often hear you know oh yeah i would have loved 00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:48.240 that i think 20 Five years also later, when I 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.779 became a mother, I was traveling very extensively 00:28:50.779 --> 00:28:55.680 for my work at that point. And when my son was 00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:59.440 born, I decided to set up some routines at home 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.740 so that things could run smoothly when I was 00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:05.099 not around. And actually, I realized that it 00:29:05.099 --> 00:29:09.319 was, you know, beyond efficiency. It was a question 00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:12.000 of just sanity, you know, my peace of mind when 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.559 I was away and the relationship, you know, with 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:16.700 my husband and the family. family of keeping 00:29:16.700 --> 00:29:19.460 things under control. And I was my friend, you 00:29:19.460 --> 00:29:22.839 know, struggling, you know, with trying to manage 00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:29.119 life demands. So, yeah, for me, I understood 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:31.779 at that point really the importance of routine 00:29:31.779 --> 00:29:35.180 in terms of, you know, keeping a family happy. 00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:40.039 I also learned along the years that less is truly 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:43.589 more. I've always been organized, but certainly 00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:46.130 there was a time in my life when I had much more 00:29:46.130 --> 00:29:50.829 than I needed or that I own today. And the big 00:29:50.829 --> 00:29:54.009 moment for me was when my son was around six 00:29:54.009 --> 00:29:56.809 years old, because up to that point, I had kept 00:29:56.809 --> 00:30:00.349 all his belongings, hoping for a second child. 00:30:00.509 --> 00:30:03.670 One day I knew I had to face the music and that 00:30:03.670 --> 00:30:08.089 I had to let go of the things, let go of my hope 00:30:08.089 --> 00:30:12.119 for the future. And it was it was. carry but 00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:16.920 at the same time I mean I find it was so liberating 00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:21.160 because instead of always focusing about what 00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:24.819 I didn't have a bigger family I could focus on 00:30:24.819 --> 00:30:28.420 my little family and pour more time energy and 00:30:28.420 --> 00:30:32.240 love into it and and for me that's really changed 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:35.740 my mindset towards our our belonging and I think 00:30:35.740 --> 00:30:39.339 since then I've been trying my best to be intentional 00:30:39.339 --> 00:30:43.759 about what I keep and what I bring into my life. 00:30:43.940 --> 00:30:47.000 And I think that's all those experiences that, 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:50.299 you know, the peace of mind that has given me 00:30:50.299 --> 00:30:54.299 the sense of control also, that has, you know, 00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:58.160 wanting me to pass that on to other people, in 00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:02.200 particular women, and help them. And that's how 00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:06.380 my company was, you know, was created. Yeah. 00:31:06.809 --> 00:31:09.490 12 years ago now. It's amazing. And you said 00:31:09.490 --> 00:31:12.809 women are the probably main customers that you 00:31:12.809 --> 00:31:16.210 see. And I know that you specialize in neurodivergent 00:31:16.210 --> 00:31:18.029 women, which I think is really interesting. We 00:31:18.029 --> 00:31:19.849 had a guest on here earlier this season talking 00:31:19.849 --> 00:31:23.089 about working with ADHD women and kind of some 00:31:23.089 --> 00:31:25.029 of the ways that she works with them in a psychological 00:31:25.029 --> 00:31:27.690 sense. What are some of the ways that you work 00:31:27.690 --> 00:31:30.369 with neurodiverse women? to use kind of home 00:31:30.369 --> 00:31:33.150 organization and decluttering as a tool to help 00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:35.670 them? Well, it's interesting because when I started, 00:31:35.750 --> 00:31:39.349 I didn't really think at all about neurodivergent 00:31:39.349 --> 00:31:43.710 individuals. But I think my philosophy and approach 00:31:43.710 --> 00:31:47.809 resonated with them. Because since the beginning, 00:31:47.970 --> 00:31:50.970 for me, it's been clear the client needs to be 00:31:50.970 --> 00:31:53.549 involved in the process. I'm not the kind of 00:31:53.549 --> 00:31:55.789 organizer who go to people home and going to 00:31:55.789 --> 00:31:58.369 fix the problem. It's kind of a partnership. 00:31:58.509 --> 00:32:01.930 You're the expert in your life. I'm the expert 00:32:01.930 --> 00:32:05.609 in organizing. And it's only that together we 00:32:05.609 --> 00:32:09.029 can create systems that you're going to be able 00:32:09.029 --> 00:32:11.730 to maintain. And if we want that to happen, they 00:32:11.730 --> 00:32:17.049 have to be based on your lifestyle, your needs, 00:32:17.349 --> 00:32:21.569 your habits, but also on your way of thinking 00:32:21.569 --> 00:32:25.950 and operating. And we know how neurodivergent 00:32:25.950 --> 00:32:28.809 individuals are. can really think outside the 00:32:28.809 --> 00:32:32.829 box. And this approach, I think, resonated with 00:32:32.829 --> 00:32:37.450 them. And I got more and more clients, you know, 00:32:37.549 --> 00:32:42.829 especially with ADHD, autism and OCD. But I mean, 00:32:42.849 --> 00:32:45.789 maybe to answer your questions more concretely, 00:32:45.849 --> 00:32:49.349 when I work with someone who is neurodivergent, 00:32:49.450 --> 00:32:52.630 I'm really going to make sure that I break down 00:32:52.630 --> 00:32:56.430 the project in tiny little steps so that they 00:32:56.490 --> 00:32:59.450 can stay focused. So when we organize a space, 00:32:59.569 --> 00:33:02.269 typically we're going to start categorizing the 00:33:02.269 --> 00:33:05.549 items, then looking at each category and decluttering, 00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:09.250 and then we're going to organize. And sometimes 00:33:09.250 --> 00:33:13.329 for the neurotypical individual, we can do that. 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.319 you know concurrently but for the neurodivergent 00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:20.380 definitely these are steps that needs to be done 00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:23.680 separately so so that they can stay focused and 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:26.380 sometimes i kind of like to play games you know 00:33:26.380 --> 00:33:29.539 if the client is up to it of giving them 15 minutes 00:33:29.539 --> 00:33:32.119 or 45 minutes when they're going to be you know 00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:35.839 doing on categorizing the items so that they 00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:40.950 can stay focused And there is a lot about also 00:33:40.950 --> 00:33:43.789 providing accountability to this group of people. 00:33:43.930 --> 00:33:48.450 I run a clutter support group online for a small 00:33:48.450 --> 00:33:52.130 groups of women where we meet once a week for 00:33:52.130 --> 00:33:54.910 a period of one month. And everyone comes with 00:33:54.910 --> 00:33:57.730 their project or task. And then I'm going to 00:33:57.730 --> 00:33:59.950 give them some tips. But most importantly, they're 00:33:59.950 --> 00:34:02.309 going to get accountability before they show 00:34:02.309 --> 00:34:05.190 up next week. You know what they want to do. 00:34:05.390 --> 00:34:07.559 And then they're going to get, you know. And 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:11.280 this is very powerful again for the ADHD community. 00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:16.179 And another thing that I will do with them as 00:34:16.179 --> 00:34:18.940 well is also the body doubling. Sometimes just 00:34:18.940 --> 00:34:22.969 having someone by your side. And that's just 00:34:22.969 --> 00:34:26.690 there while the person is doing the things can 00:34:26.690 --> 00:34:29.210 be just enough to keep the person going. And 00:34:29.210 --> 00:34:31.889 I do that during my session with clients, but 00:34:31.889 --> 00:34:36.130 also I do that online. So, again, group of people 00:34:36.130 --> 00:34:39.289 who come in and, you know, just for an hour, 00:34:39.349 --> 00:34:41.289 everyone will decide what they're going to work 00:34:41.289 --> 00:34:44.050 on and everybody goes their own way. But just 00:34:44.050 --> 00:34:47.369 knowing that there is someone next to them, it 00:34:47.369 --> 00:34:50.750 makes such a difference. So that's the kind of. 00:34:50.989 --> 00:34:55.969 you know, things I will use for my neurodivergent 00:34:55.969 --> 00:34:58.809 client. But really my approach is, you know, 00:34:58.869 --> 00:35:03.409 the baseline that I use with them is something 00:35:03.409 --> 00:35:06.909 that I use with all of my clients, really. So 00:35:06.909 --> 00:35:11.110 I saw this, I think it was a meme, is that the 00:35:11.110 --> 00:35:13.070 right word? Where it was like, someone's like, 00:35:13.150 --> 00:35:14.449 right, I'm going to go and organise everything. 00:35:14.590 --> 00:35:17.369 And then they take out everything from their 00:35:17.369 --> 00:35:19.550 closet, chuck it on the floor. And then it's 00:35:19.550 --> 00:35:22.389 like. oh crap this is too overwhelming I can't 00:35:22.389 --> 00:35:26.809 do it do you find that people get into that situation 00:35:26.809 --> 00:35:30.550 and then it's like it just makes more of a mess 00:35:30.550 --> 00:35:33.510 and they can't get back into doing it is that 00:35:33.510 --> 00:35:35.730 when you would use the little sort of little 00:35:35.730 --> 00:35:38.989 snippets to sort of get them to to help organize 00:35:38.989 --> 00:35:41.690 their closet or whatever it is that they're trying 00:35:41.690 --> 00:35:44.409 to organize yes completely I think you know sometimes 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.300 you know, I give a talk or, you know, and people 00:35:50.300 --> 00:35:52.440 say, oh, I'm so inspired. I'm going to go and 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.940 I'm going to do it all now. And yes, I have to 00:35:55.940 --> 00:36:00.079 warn them to be very careful about that. And 00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:01.980 it's quite often, you know, you take the stuff 00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:05.340 out, you might start dealing with it. But, you 00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:08.239 know, you reach a point where you have so much. 00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:11.059 stuff to confront you reach decision fatigue 00:36:11.059 --> 00:36:14.460 and as you said either you're gonna stop and 00:36:14.460 --> 00:36:16.800 push things along the way and that's you know 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.840 the situation you're sharing or in some cases 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:23.340 people can actually push forward and then regret 00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:27.920 decision you know further further down when i 00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.539 work with a client i work for typically three 00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:34.400 hours and one of my role is really to observe 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:36.820 how they're dealing and i'm always very careful 00:36:36.820 --> 00:36:39.699 even if they say We want to reorganize the whole 00:36:39.699 --> 00:36:42.239 wardrobe. I'm going to start with, you know, 00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:45.039 maybe the clothes that are hanging or maybe even 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:48.610 if it's... big, big collection. I might even 00:36:48.610 --> 00:36:51.369 take a category and see how they're going through 00:36:51.369 --> 00:36:53.329 the process. And everyone is different. Some 00:36:53.329 --> 00:36:56.309 people are extremely decisive and they go so 00:36:56.309 --> 00:36:59.710 fast, but some need the time to process. And 00:36:59.710 --> 00:37:02.590 for me, it's important that I respect, you know, 00:37:02.670 --> 00:37:06.610 the speed they need to go. So that's my role 00:37:06.610 --> 00:37:09.610 to make sure that they can deal with the amount 00:37:09.610 --> 00:37:12.230 of stuff that we are taking out, that we process 00:37:12.230 --> 00:37:15.110 them, and then that we put them back in, in a 00:37:15.110 --> 00:37:18.750 more organized way. can't leave a client with 00:37:18.750 --> 00:37:23.510 stuff on the floor. But yeah, that's very difficult 00:37:23.510 --> 00:37:25.809 sometimes to manage on your own. And for me, 00:37:25.889 --> 00:37:29.489 it's better to actually do it by, you know, even 00:37:29.489 --> 00:37:32.510 15 minutes a day or half an hour, provide more 00:37:32.510 --> 00:37:36.610 success and, you know, being able to stay focused. 00:37:36.769 --> 00:37:39.630 So you need to be, you know, to really say, maybe 00:37:39.630 --> 00:37:42.449 I'm going to start with a drawer or, you know, 00:37:42.469 --> 00:37:45.210 looking at how much time you can focus on that. 00:37:47.230 --> 00:37:49.670 Tell my clients, try to end on a positive note, 00:37:49.809 --> 00:37:54.019 you know, try to stop. before you get bored, 00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:58.300 because then if you stop on a high, you're going 00:37:58.300 --> 00:38:01.199 to want to go back and do it again. And so I 00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.679 think it's better to do that, you know, 15 minutes, 00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:06.679 30 minutes, you know, a day or, you know, one 00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:09.780 hour, twice a week or something like that, whatever 00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:12.579 fits your schedule. Maybe even block the time 00:38:12.579 --> 00:38:14.639 in your diary so that you get a better chance 00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.900 of being done. And then, you know, doing that 00:38:17.900 --> 00:38:21.000 on a regular basis and also rewarding yourself. 00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.679 you know, in the process. Always about that. 00:38:23.780 --> 00:38:26.519 Yeah, because quite often we wait, you know, 00:38:26.619 --> 00:38:30.440 to have achieved, you know, the final outcome 00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:35.099 that we visualize. And sometimes, you know, it 00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:38.420 can take some time. And so try to reward yourself 00:38:38.420 --> 00:38:40.500 every time you've done what you're supposed to 00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:44.179 do. I had a client, she had engaged me many years 00:38:44.179 --> 00:38:48.400 ago. She wanted to create a photo book for her 00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:50.659 son when he was graduating from high school. 00:38:50.570 --> 00:38:53.090 high school before he goes to uni and she had 00:38:53.090 --> 00:38:57.510 30 000 pictures on the computer on several devices 00:38:57.510 --> 00:39:02.329 actually so we came up with a with a plan to 00:39:02.329 --> 00:39:04.849 do that and she said that she will be doing that 00:39:04.849 --> 00:39:08.989 half an hour every night before dinner while 00:39:08.989 --> 00:39:14.019 her son was working you know studying and after 00:39:14.019 --> 00:39:17.900 that she will go and get a glass of wine so i 00:39:17.900 --> 00:39:20.300 mean i don't want to encourage drinking but you 00:39:20.300 --> 00:39:23.239 know whether one yeah you know it's your plasticity 00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:25.179 isn't it you reward yourself then you want to 00:39:25.179 --> 00:39:27.900 go back to doing it again exactly that habit's 00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:29.920 going to get built yes i wonder what would happen 00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.280 there once you completed it it's like What do 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:34.559 I do with my time? How do I get my glass of wine? 00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:36.800 Exactly. Yeah. It's like the mouse, you know, 00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:38.420 getting the cheese. It's like, I still want the 00:39:38.420 --> 00:39:40.480 cheese, but like, how do I, my experiments are 00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:42.699 worse. What do I do? But that's such a great, 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.380 you know, breaking into small chunks. Again, 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.519 this is something that I think anyone who's worked 00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:48.619 with habits or lifestyle changes, it's like, 00:39:48.619 --> 00:39:52.019 it always is better, something small and repeatable 00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:55.420 than something grand scale and once. On this, 00:39:55.539 --> 00:39:58.719 I want to talk a bit about perfectionism because 00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:01.980 especially as women, you know, we tend to think 00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:04.599 that it's all or nothing, you know, approach. 00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:08.460 So I see so many people who don't want to start 00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:11.579 because they're just waiting for the perfect 00:40:11.579 --> 00:40:15.199 time and it never comes. Or they just, you know, 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:17.500 want the perfect outcome. And we are influenced 00:40:17.500 --> 00:40:21.900 so much by Pinterest or Instagram, where you 00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:25.079 see those pantries with the food decanted in, 00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:27.599 you know, matching. I've bought those spices. 00:40:28.730 --> 00:40:32.090 uh not the racks the spice bottles but i haven't 00:40:32.090 --> 00:40:33.849 can't your spices into but i haven't done it 00:40:33.849 --> 00:40:37.590 yet yeah yeah no exactly so i mean that looks 00:40:37.590 --> 00:40:40.429 beautiful or the wardrobe with you know color 00:40:40.429 --> 00:40:43.030 coded. And, you know, I can understand the need 00:40:43.030 --> 00:40:46.369 to aspire to that. That might be actually preventing 00:40:46.369 --> 00:40:49.710 you from taking action. Again, it's about starting, 00:40:49.929 --> 00:40:53.590 establishing something, learning out of it, you 00:40:53.590 --> 00:40:56.389 know, and then improving upon it. And sometimes, 00:40:56.530 --> 00:40:59.670 actually, you can achieve even much more than 00:40:59.670 --> 00:41:02.750 what you had anticipated. You know, I went through 00:41:02.750 --> 00:41:05.070 it personally with, you know, with my books, 00:41:05.130 --> 00:41:09.489 which was something that was for me very difficult. 00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:13.579 difficult to let go of. But again, I started 00:41:13.579 --> 00:41:16.920 the process. I think it took me five years at 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:20.280 the total to declutter my bookshelf. I went through 00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:24.000 several iterations. But at the end, now I don't 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.469 keep any books. and i sold the bookshelves and 00:41:27.469 --> 00:41:30.530 if you had told me that was you know uh what 00:41:30.530 --> 00:41:33.909 i would you know achieve at the end it would 00:41:33.909 --> 00:41:36.070 have been too scary i would never had started 00:41:36.070 --> 00:41:39.969 but by going you know through those uh uh progressive 00:41:39.969 --> 00:41:43.949 step i made it happen like like this yes and 00:41:43.949 --> 00:41:46.090 i've seen clients you know going through the 00:41:46.090 --> 00:41:48.650 same process as well i had some clients who went 00:41:48.650 --> 00:41:51.989 down the minimalist life and downsized you know 00:41:51.989 --> 00:41:56.050 from a very large home to An HDB flat, when the 00:41:56.050 --> 00:41:58.389 husband lost the job, they were so happy not 00:41:58.389 --> 00:42:00.530 to have that financial burden. Well, that's what 00:42:00.530 --> 00:42:01.929 I actually wanted to talk to you about, right? 00:42:01.989 --> 00:42:04.650 Was like, I think we talked about when is it 00:42:04.650 --> 00:42:06.449 not the right time to declutter, right? You know, 00:42:06.469 --> 00:42:09.110 like when is it maybe too soon or too much or 00:42:09.110 --> 00:42:12.309 whatever. But are there certain unexpected transitions 00:42:12.309 --> 00:42:14.929 that actually do set the stage for the perfect 00:42:14.929 --> 00:42:17.070 time to declutter? So like a move might be one 00:42:17.070 --> 00:42:18.849 of those times. My parents are doing that right 00:42:18.849 --> 00:42:20.590 now. They're moving from, they're actually moving 00:42:20.590 --> 00:42:22.849 from a condo to a house, which sounds... like 00:42:22.849 --> 00:42:24.510 it would be the opposite direction but but really 00:42:24.510 --> 00:42:26.429 it's not it's about the same you know size so 00:42:26.429 --> 00:42:27.469 they're they're going through a decluttering 00:42:27.469 --> 00:42:30.469 process um my brother recently lost his wife 00:42:30.469 --> 00:42:32.789 and so you know he's going through his sort of 00:42:32.789 --> 00:42:34.690 kind of emotional decluttering of her belongings 00:42:34.690 --> 00:42:37.150 and what to do with that side of the house and 00:42:37.150 --> 00:42:39.610 everything are there unexpected transitions like 00:42:39.610 --> 00:42:41.789 that where it's like it actually kicks you into 00:42:41.789 --> 00:42:44.210 gear and it's like wait now now's the time there 00:42:44.210 --> 00:42:48.269 are definitely some times that are good you know 00:42:48.269 --> 00:42:51.769 catalysts to uh to declutter some of them being 00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:55.139 For some people, some are unplanned. So yes, 00:42:55.219 --> 00:42:59.739 a move, downsizing also can be a reason. It can 00:42:59.739 --> 00:43:03.760 be a change in your family size. It can be arrival 00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:06.639 of a new baby. A lot of women, you have this 00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:09.940 nesting instinct of making the space calm and 00:43:09.940 --> 00:43:12.719 unorganized. But it also can be when the child 00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.639 leave for uni. I went through this myself three 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:18.300 years ago, kind of want to reclaim your space. 00:43:18.519 --> 00:43:21.760 But also, most importantly, to... Embrace, you 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:23.980 know, a new chapter in your life. I mean, all 00:43:23.980 --> 00:43:26.219 of these are kind of planned, but sometimes you 00:43:26.219 --> 00:43:30.519 might have to sell your house and people are 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:32.340 going to declutter because they want to make, 00:43:32.420 --> 00:43:36.079 you know, their home look the best and get more 00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:38.980 money out of it. Sometimes it's when you have 00:43:38.980 --> 00:43:41.760 to spend more time at home, maybe because of 00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:44.880 retirement, maybe because of, you know, working 00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.920 from home. It could be when you get married as 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:50.980 well, when you're going to merge too. households, 00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:54.280 you know, everything. Yes. And you have to go 00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:56.340 through things. And then, you know, it's kind 00:43:56.340 --> 00:44:03.980 of almost a challenge to, you know, build a relationship 00:44:03.980 --> 00:44:07.699 building, you know, in selecting what you're 00:44:07.699 --> 00:44:10.539 going to keep and embrace this new life. Sometimes 00:44:10.539 --> 00:44:16.199 it can be also, you know, health issues, you 00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.960 know, allergies, respiratory problem, because, 00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:21.489 you know, You know, a cluttered home is difficult 00:44:21.489 --> 00:44:26.090 to clean. You just go around things. And I've 00:44:26.090 --> 00:44:29.150 seen, you know, people who went into this because 00:44:29.150 --> 00:44:32.690 of health issues as well. I hadn't even thought 00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:34.369 about that last one, but that makes total sense. 00:44:34.449 --> 00:44:36.809 You know, the accumulation of everything, including 00:44:36.809 --> 00:44:41.170 dust and allergens. Are there red flags? So again, 00:44:41.309 --> 00:44:43.110 I don't use the term hoarder either. I think 00:44:43.110 --> 00:44:45.550 it's really derogatory and I don't love it. Are 00:44:45.550 --> 00:44:48.510 there red flags that you see in particular clients 00:44:48.510 --> 00:44:51.250 or just that you've observed in like this is 00:44:51.250 --> 00:44:55.550 a tendency that down the line may result in having 00:44:55.550 --> 00:44:58.389 a home that is almost, you know, I get what I 00:44:58.389 --> 00:44:59.809 take from the hoarder experience, right? Is that 00:44:59.809 --> 00:45:01.949 like the clutter is kind of affecting your relationships 00:45:01.949 --> 00:45:03.889 and health and stuff like that. So are the red 00:45:03.889 --> 00:45:05.449 flags where it's like, oh, that person might 00:45:05.449 --> 00:45:07.769 be on the path, might be on the path. One that 00:45:07.769 --> 00:45:09.690 I always think of is collections. People who 00:45:09.690 --> 00:45:14.300 collect. figurines and doodads, you know, I'm 00:45:14.300 --> 00:45:16.659 always like, that's like a gateway to the hoarding. 00:45:16.659 --> 00:45:18.659 I don't know. What do you think? Hoarding is 00:45:18.659 --> 00:45:21.820 really a mental condition and, you know, it does 00:45:21.820 --> 00:45:24.400 affect two to five percent of the population. 00:45:25.759 --> 00:45:28.679 That's quite a lot, actually. It's quite a lot, 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:31.699 yes. I mean, there is a task force actually that 00:45:31.699 --> 00:45:34.480 has been set up in Singapore to look into this 00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:38.320 issue. It's a very complex, definitely, issue, 00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:42.199 but not everyone is, you know, fit into that 00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:46.760 category. But certainly I see people, you know, 00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:51.380 with... can have a very high level of of clutter 00:45:51.380 --> 00:45:55.440 and uh yes some signs that you might want to 00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:58.940 to look into is you know people who start talking 00:45:58.940 --> 00:46:04.019 about moving to a bigger home or start to You 00:46:04.019 --> 00:46:07.559 know, consider putting things in self -storage 00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:11.380 boxes, you know, and it's just because of the 00:46:11.380 --> 00:46:14.619 accumulation of stuff. When you have a room that's 00:46:14.619 --> 00:46:18.019 not used for its intended purpose, such as, you 00:46:18.019 --> 00:46:21.039 know, the guest room that's used as a storeroom. 00:46:21.099 --> 00:46:24.400 Yeah, I mean, a lot of people can relate to that. 00:46:24.699 --> 00:46:28.019 It can be, I see also people who claim they are 00:46:28.019 --> 00:46:31.179 organizing, but actually they're just moving 00:46:31.179 --> 00:46:33.619 the stuff from one place to the other. in the 00:46:33.619 --> 00:46:36.940 home, nothing will go out. They buy actually 00:46:36.940 --> 00:46:41.260 a lot of storage boxes to put the stuff in and 00:46:41.260 --> 00:46:43.380 things that, you know, it's contained, it's organized. 00:46:43.820 --> 00:46:46.940 So that's also kind of a sign. I think it's, 00:46:46.940 --> 00:46:50.880 you know, when it affects the, there is a lot 00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:53.619 of struggle, a lot of, you know, arguments at 00:46:53.619 --> 00:46:58.440 home about the clutter. Yeah, these are, you 00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:02.829 know, red flags that it might occur. accumulate 00:47:02.829 --> 00:47:06.510 overnight i think also our parents you know i 00:47:06.510 --> 00:47:11.210 think we they used to pass their things to their 00:47:11.210 --> 00:47:14.389 children but now today the children don't want 00:47:14.389 --> 00:47:17.449 you know their parent things and when you hear 00:47:17.449 --> 00:47:20.210 i hear sometimes people saying oh i'm gonna keep 00:47:20.210 --> 00:47:24.849 that for my children or my grandchildren you 00:47:24.849 --> 00:47:28.090 know it's unlikely they're gonna be interested 00:47:28.090 --> 00:47:32.309 and um I'm not sure whether you heard about the 00:47:32.309 --> 00:47:35.929 concept of, you know, death cleaning. Oh, death 00:47:35.929 --> 00:47:39.289 cleaning? Death cleaning. There's a such a thing 00:47:39.289 --> 00:47:41.409 that's actually, there's a book that has been 00:47:41.409 --> 00:47:44.329 written about this concept. I think she's a Swedish 00:47:44.329 --> 00:47:49.630 lady. But basically, the idea is actually to 00:47:49.630 --> 00:47:53.789 take a good look at, you know, at your life and 00:47:53.789 --> 00:47:57.869 the legacy you want to leave behind and to declutter 00:47:57.869 --> 00:48:01.070 before pass on so that you're not a burden for 00:48:01.070 --> 00:48:05.239 your children. I actually experienced that. myself 00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.179 because I lost both my parents very suddenly 00:48:08.179 --> 00:48:11.940 and my father was the first one to pass 10 years 00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:18.559 ago and he had left a garage full of you know 00:48:18.559 --> 00:48:23.110 40 years of accumulation And, you know, I find 00:48:23.110 --> 00:48:27.690 myself to that point to, you know, to deal with 00:48:27.690 --> 00:48:32.269 the emotional loss, the grief. But I also had 00:48:32.269 --> 00:48:35.309 to help my mom, you know, declutter this garage. 00:48:35.429 --> 00:48:38.730 And it took me three summers about, you know, 00:48:38.789 --> 00:48:42.630 up to a week decluttering and organizing. And 00:48:42.630 --> 00:48:45.769 it was so tough because it was, you know, things 00:48:45.769 --> 00:48:49.469 I had no idea, some junk. But it brings still 00:48:49.469 --> 00:48:52.980 a lot of emotion. And for me, I made myself the 00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:55.440 promise at that point. I never been cluttered, 00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:59.199 but I would really, you know, be mindful of what 00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:01.619 I keep because I have only one child and when 00:49:01.619 --> 00:49:04.099 I pass, I don't want to be, you know, to give 00:49:04.099 --> 00:49:07.760 him that burden, you know, of the stuff. Yeah, 00:49:07.820 --> 00:49:10.320 you have to be quite self -aware. Sometimes we 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:14.719 are not. And that's why we need to guide the 00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:17.460 discussion very carefully when you start recognizing 00:49:17.460 --> 00:49:20.880 those signs, you know. we were talking about 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:24.239 so we talk about that in the health form you 00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:25.480 know like we don't want to be a burden on our 00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:29.420 kids because we want to be healthy up until we're 00:49:29.420 --> 00:49:32.500 not and then basically you know don't need to 00:49:32.500 --> 00:49:34.199 be around because I think what is the point of 00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:36.559 life if you can't do things for yourself but 00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:40.969 I never thought about all the stuff That is a 00:49:40.969 --> 00:49:43.730 mental burden. And actually our next guest who 00:49:43.730 --> 00:49:47.449 we're going to be interviewing, she had to go 00:49:47.449 --> 00:49:49.690 through that at 29. Her father passed away when 00:49:49.690 --> 00:49:52.070 she was younger. Her mother had a stroke and 00:49:52.070 --> 00:49:54.610 she went through this phase. I think it was a 00:49:54.610 --> 00:49:58.530 whole year of decluttering what her mother had 00:49:58.530 --> 00:50:03.050 accumulated. And to think about that as a mental 00:50:03.050 --> 00:50:06.170 struggle. It's tough. It's a lot, isn't it? Oh, 00:50:06.170 --> 00:50:08.389 it's so much. Yeah. I also had a girlfriend lost 00:50:08.389 --> 00:50:11.210 both parents very suddenly as well. And then 00:50:11.210 --> 00:50:13.449 had to basically, you know, like, like she was 00:50:13.449 --> 00:50:15.230 still in the process of decluttering from the 00:50:15.230 --> 00:50:17.230 first parents passing when the second one passed, 00:50:17.250 --> 00:50:19.369 you know, that kind of thing. And it was just, 00:50:19.369 --> 00:50:21.530 you know, and it's also very lonely. You know, 00:50:21.570 --> 00:50:22.750 can we talk about the fact that like when the 00:50:22.750 --> 00:50:25.630 person's not there, but you're over around all 00:50:25.630 --> 00:50:28.190 their stuff, how almost ghostly that can feel 00:50:28.190 --> 00:50:30.510 ghastly. Not sure if that's the right word. Yeah, 00:50:30.769 --> 00:50:33.159 there's just a lot in there. Yeah, it's an extremely 00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:37.460 tough situation for sure. So, yeah, if we can 00:50:37.460 --> 00:50:40.320 do anything to anticipate that, I mean, sometimes, 00:50:40.539 --> 00:50:44.940 you know, in the case of unexpected loss, you're 00:50:44.940 --> 00:50:47.880 never prepared for that. But yeah, that's the 00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:50.300 reality. It's tough. On that very high note, 00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:54.139 Natalie, we are coming to the end of our time. 00:50:54.219 --> 00:50:56.239 And I do want to ask you something that we ask 00:50:56.239 --> 00:50:58.380 every single guest sitting in this chair on the 00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:02.300 40s Formula, which is, What is your 40s formula? 00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:05.460 What is the advice, given your profession, that 00:51:05.460 --> 00:51:07.920 you can give to us women in our 40s to help us 00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:10.519 thrive through this decade? I mean, obviously, 00:51:10.579 --> 00:51:13.679 it's going to have to be about letting go. I 00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:17.000 think for me, it's really about releasing what 00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:20.460 doesn't support. our life at this point of time 00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:23.300 so whether it's about decluttering our homes 00:51:23.300 --> 00:51:27.619 but also you know really evaluating all our commitments 00:51:27.619 --> 00:51:32.320 as well and being very intentional about what 00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:35.860 we keep and what we bring into into our space 00:51:35.860 --> 00:51:39.059 and our lives and then then you can make use 00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:44.420 of that you know newfound time energy uh mental 00:51:44.420 --> 00:51:48.190 clarity to really um you know pursue you what 00:51:48.190 --> 00:51:51.670 brings you joy and meaning in your life. That's 00:51:51.670 --> 00:51:54.989 beautiful. Let go and make space. Yes. It sounds 00:51:54.989 --> 00:51:57.889 so appealing to all of us. So thank you so much 00:51:57.889 --> 00:51:59.550 for being with us here on The 40s Formula. Natalie, 00:51:59.650 --> 00:52:01.690 you have given us so many great tips and we really 00:52:01.690 --> 00:52:04.010 appreciate you coming. Thank you. I really was 00:52:04.010 --> 00:52:06.570 a pleasure to be talking to the two of you. Guys, 00:52:06.630 --> 00:52:08.610 you know we love coffee. And if you want to show 00:52:08.610 --> 00:52:10.050 us some love, you know, you can always get us 00:52:10.050 --> 00:52:14.329 one. Just visit buymeacoffee .com slash The 40s 00:52:14.329 --> 00:52:18.300 Formula. Cheers. Before we go, please remember 00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:20.659 to hit subscribe and take a moment to support 00:52:20.659 --> 00:52:23.260 The 40s Formula by leaving a review on your favorite 00:52:23.260 --> 00:52:26.079 podcast platform. 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