The walls in that room looked like they were
on fire. And then I saw little kittens all around
my bed. Kittens with human faces on them. That
sounds scary, actually. I think if I saw kittens,
I don't know. How old were your kids at this
stage, by the way? Five and four. Oh, my God.
Across the chair, I could see the window through
to the other patient. The other patient had my
gown on. I was like, oh, that's normal. I was
checking my iPhone. He was checking his phone.
Then I was moving my neck. He was moving his
neck. And I was like, okay. And then all of a
sudden I had something in my eye. So I was doing
this with my eye and he was doing that. So I
was like, I was like messaging my husband. I
was like, something's, something's really weird.
And I feel like I feel scared and terrified.
And I feel like the nurses are trying to like,
they hate me because of my behavior. I'm a bad
patient. And so I was like, please come like
right away. And then my heart was going faster
and faster because I felt terror. And I finally
went to bed. And then he came, and he was talking
to the head nurse. And as he was doing that,
I was just like, oh, this is death. This is it.
I'm done, you know. So I'm not Christian, but
I looked up into the ceiling in my bed, and I
said, one thing, God, my kids. And I clapped
my hand, and I passed out. Hey, and welcome to
The 40s Formula, your go -to place for insightful
discussions on navigating the 40s and thriving
in this transformative decade. We're your hosts,
Jasmine and Amanda, two women that are passionate
about exploring the challenges and adventures
that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.
Dr. Sarah Nami -Ahn is a UCLA -trained neuroscientist.
whose non -traditional path led her to enroll
in the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising
in Los Angeles and start her own label, NAMI
Design. Her ability to blend her scientific and
artistic backgrounds, as well as handle the day
-to -day challenges of running a startup, gave
her resilience skills that became patently useful
after a shocking double diagnosis of a brain
tumor in 2018 and a spine tumor in 2023. Never
one to be held back, Dr. Ahn now considers herself
a spiritual scientist. and is constantly developing
new skills, practices, and ways of designing
a life that is present and purposeful. We took
notice of today's guest, Dr. Sarah Nami Ahn,
when we saw an Instagram post for this pre -loved
fashion sale that we're kind of obsessed with,
and we thought her energy is such a good match
for the 40s formula. But little did we know that
behind this style maven was a fashion designer,
a tumor survivor, a PhD in neuroscientist, a
serious triple threat. with a killer vibe. So
we are so happy to have you here to tell us about
your wild journey. That's so nice of you. That's
so nice of you. Well, it's all true, girl. Thank
you so much. I mean, the top line in your Instagram
profile. I feel really seen. I feel seen. Girl,
we are seeing you, okay? Again, we don't have
great eyesight. I don't have great eyesight,
but I can see you, okay? And the top line in
your Instagram profile says, you know, brain
tumor 18, you know, 2018, and spine tumor 2023.
And, you know, you're not trying to hide the
fact that you're an alumnus of these two really
serious. health scares. Can you tell us a little
bit more about what women should know about tumors?
I realized that when I first got my tumor that
there's all these, I had to Google all these
information about like brain tumors. I didn't
know anything about it. No one talks about it
and realized that actually women get brain tumors
more often than men. Are there more? Or we get
tendency to have more. It's like three to one.
Wow. Okay. Just like cancer. We don't know how
it happens or what occurs. A lot of people ask
me, well, it's. the good kind, right? And they
call it the good kind. And people do that. Is
that benign? And most tumors versus cancer are
considered benign because the fact is because
it doesn't spread. So the definition of cancer
cells are usually that they spread. And that's
the scary part because it's unpredictable. Tumors
are just uncontrolled cell growth. And so tumors
take a really long time to grow. Maybe like,
Maybe you wouldn't even know that it started
when you were like 15. And then you discover
it finally at 35 because it took 20 years for
the size to grow to impede something in your
body for it to be symptomatic. So for me, my
brain tumor in 2018, it grew the size of a golf
ball. Five centimeters here, five by six centimeters.
And okay, so I'll tell this quick story. How
I found it? Yeah. I just moved to Singapore and
I was having headaches and I was nauseous. I
took pregnancy tests every morning because I
was like, am I pregnant? But thank God they were
always negative because this factory is closed.
Thank God it was just a tumor. I know. And I
really thought I had maybe vertigo. I was nauseous.
One time I went to go get my daughter from the
bus and I was holding her hand. I was walking
back home. And the next thing I know, I'm in
the bush. Wow. And then I woke up and I was like,
and I dragged her with me because I was still
holding her hand. And this one lady actually
came up and said, are you drunk? And I'm like,
do I look drunk to you, lady? But anyway, so
I had that happen. And finally, I went to the
hospital so many times, like seeing ENT, seeing
pain management, blah, blah, blah. Nothing happened.
So I was like, finally, one day I went to the
bathroom. In the morning, you take a poop, right?
And what do you do when you poop? You? Strain.
Strain. and that strain probably brought pressure
up into my head and then when i tried to get
up after i wiped to put my underwear up i started
falling oh my god i couldn't use my left leg
so then i ended up just hooking my arms onto
the sink yeah and i dangled there and in my mind
i didn't freak out I just went to Tasman. I just
said, cause my husband Dean and my kids, they,
he took him down to the bus to go to school and
we were at NUS housing. So they would just, he
would just then just walk straight to the office.
We didn't have a helper. So I'm home alone. So
you're alone alone. So then I was like, where
is my phone? It's by the bed. So in my mind,
I was like, well, I have to army crawl to get
it to contact someone. So while I'm dangling,
I was like, this is ridiculous. I slowly put
myself down. And then. I'm vain. I was like,
if the paramedics come, I don't want them to
see my butt. So I wiggled into my underwear,
even though I couldn't move my legs. And then
the front door opened. Dean forgot his backpack
that day. Oh, my God. That's like divine intervention.
Yes. So then I yelled, and then he came running
over. And OK, up until that point, my husband
and I had very. bad relationship because i was
not feeling well i was yelling at him i was expecting
him to help me like quickly yeah and he wasn't
delivering to me in my expectations oh my gosh
my earring kept falling and then um so i told
him you know today is about me i've hit ground
like you know uh what is it i hit rock bottom
yeah and like Take me to the hospital right now,
the ER. And we didn't know what the number was.
Here in the States, it's 911. Yeah. But here,
it's actually 995. Oh, I was going to say. Yeah,
999 is like fire station, right? Yeah, I'm not
sure. And then 995 is medical. Oh, wow. Do not
take advice from this podcast. We have to Google.
We have to Google. And I totally understand that
because actually, I know in the UK, it's 999.
Yeah. And I assumed it was the same here. Because
of the British system. But wow, I did not realize.
995 Singapore people. Probably all of our kids
know it, to be honest with you. I think so. Maybe
the school. Yeah, yeah. So he called the private
one thinking that it'd be faster. But they actually
recommend that we do the government one, the
public, the local one. So we did that and they
came and brought us over there. I was in the
stretcher and I was just talking like this and
talking to them. So they were like, oh, let's
just give her anti -nausea med and then send
her back home. But our friend, Raghav, he's a
gastro -oncologist at NUH, so next to NUS. So
they work in collaboration with Dean. So he was
there, and he was able to come to the back of
the ER. So he was like, Sarah, you know, you've
had so many symptoms. Let's just admit you and
do all the tests. I was like, thank you, instead
of going back and forth. So I was like, yeah,
just admit me. So I got admitted. The next morning,
I went to the MRI to get my brain scanned. I
got back up. And there were 10 doctors in my
room. Dean was staring at the corner and wasn't
even looking at me. And then I saw a computer
screen with my brain scan. And it was like, like
the layers from the top bottom. And I was like,
I was nerding out with the PhD. And I was like,
oh, cool. That's my brain. That's so cool. My
brain looks beautiful. And then towards the bottom,
I was like, wait a second. Why does it look asymmetrical?
Wow. And then I was like, huh, okay. And then
they were like, it's an angioma. Okay, as a neuroscientist,
I don't know what meningioma meant. So at that
time, I thought it was cancer, but I just went
with it. And so it's just the overgrowth of cells
that are on top of the sheath meninges of the
brain. And it can happen to a lot of women, but
different locations. Thankfully, mine was actually
just right here. And that's why the scars right
here. Actually, my hair after surgery looked
exactly the same. It was already like this. I
was like, you guys can just shave it off. But
they're like, yeah, it's fine. They were able
to just do it here. I had an emergency surgery
the next day because two years prior, after giving
birth to my daughter, I didn't feel very good.
So at UCLA, I got like the million dollar checkup.
So I had brain MRI from there and had nothing.
So that was two years ago. What? So I had something
at least to compare with. So from two years ago
to now, it was like a golf ball size. Like how
did it grow so fast? So tumors are, so cancer
is, what is it? It's stages. Okay. Stage one
through four, depending on how severe it is.
For tumors, it's actually grade one through three.
One and two are called benign. They're very slow
growing. They will not spread. they cause very
little symptoms and usually it's called wait
and watch so people don't do anything they don't
do surgery didn't do any treatments you just
wait to see if it grows and just monitor it grade
three is what i had and it's because purely it's
speed of growth and it's called malignant because
of the symptoms and the disability it can cause.
I went in for surgery three hours later, very,
very fast. I got to the ICU. I was intubated,
but they took it out. So I was the only one awake
in the ICU, and I got the VIP treatment of one
-on -one treatment because I know Dean, or Dean
knows the people there. And so I kind of pissed
off the nurses. Because she was poking my veins
and kept missing. It was so painful. One of my
husband's pet peeves as well. Oh, really? Incompetent.
Yeah. Back then, I was quite a harsh person.
I had a lot of anger. And then at the time, too,
I had two sticking out of my head for fluids
and all this stuff was happening. And so I was
like, what the fuck, bitch? get it right or find
someone else to do it and then so another nurse
came and she looked at me and she was and it's
very sternly and she said look you have small
veins ma 'am and i go i've never had anyone tell
me this before anyway so the i thought that there
was a conspiracy for the nurses to all hate me
and want to kill me. In retrospect, do you have
small veins? No, I don't. Okay. Just checking.
I don't think I do. Just checking on the factuality.
Yeah. Like in the States, I've never had anyone
have trouble. I've had people say it to me and
then I was like, use it. What is it called? A
butterfly needle? Yes. Yes. Yes. There's a particular
needle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can use that. And
then it draws out blood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
I like looking at the needles. Yeah. You said
that. I can't. I'm like, I hate needles. I hate
injections. I hate blood. Yeah, I'm all right
with needles. They're all right. Definitely not
pre -med for you. So then I went from ICU, which
was a crazy experience. And then I went down
to the high dependency ward. And then in the
walls, the walls were on fire. So obviously I'm
on fentanyl. I have a lot of things going on.
Fentanyl, I didn't realize was such a powerful
and scary drug. Girl, I was not in pain. I was
good. It was doing its job. Yeah, it was doing
its job. The walls in that room looked like they
were on fire. And then I saw little kittens all
around my bed. Kittens with. human faces on them
that sounds scary actually i think if i felt
terrified yeah yeah i don't know how old were
your kids at this is this stage by the way five
and four oh my god yeah yeah across the chair
i could see the mirror our window through to
the other patient the other patient had my gown
on i was like oh that's normal i was checking
my iphone he was checking his phone then i was
moving my neck he was moving his neck and i was
like okay and then all of a sudden i had something
in my eye so i was doing this with my eye and
he was doing that So I was like, I was like messaging
my husband. I was like, something's something's
really weird. And I feel like I feel scared and
terrified. And I feel like the nurses are trying
to like, they hate me because of my behavior.
I'm a bad patient. And so I was like, please
come like right away. And then my heart was going
faster and faster because I felt terror. And
I finally went to bed. And then he came and he
was talking to the head nurse. And as he was
doing that, I just like, oh, this is death. This
is it. I'm done, you know. So I'm not Christian,
but I looked up into the ceiling in my bed, and
I said, one thing, God, my kids. And I clapped
my hand, and I passed out. Hours later, I came
to, and then my room was bright, like white.
None of the lights were on. The windows really
weren't showing that much light. But my room
was really bright, like everything was gone.
And then at the base of my bed, were two gigantic
angels oh wow and it's not anything that i could
have made up because i thought angels look like
those cupids like valentine cupids you know but
these were um white marble i can only see the
back of them two gigantic wings their heads almost
hit the ceiling and i imagined if their wings
were open it would crush the whole room wow like
and protect me i'm getting goosebumps now hearing
this description it's like and the marble looked
a little like battled i mean like damaged so
you could see a little bit of like gray bits
that were chunks of broken off and i got the
sense they didn't talk to me they just i just
got the sense that they were bored they're every
they're there every day but they just i just
happened to see them that day and then i was
like thank you and i passed out again and this
time i saw unicorns flying around and i was decorating
rainbow cookies because i love decorating yeah
so anyway so that's my um hospital story and
then i had 33 sessions of radiation for that
and that one's crazy too like you know chucky
mask yeah oh yeah you're like this onto a metal
bed so your head doesn't move so the rate the
laser can go precisely where it needs to be oh
my god and so i had 33 sessions of that and there's
different types of radiation too if um viewers
want to ask later because there are options and
they're different um and as a phd i guess i i
can be nerdy and really explain it to you and
because people are scared yeah you know they
don't know what they're supposed to do you know
what their options are and what's best for them
you know so for me i had the option of doing
gamma knife which is one time but extra um strong
and ex like specifically in one spot but we decided
to do the carpet bond situation with our method
which is like 33 sessions but it takes all the
margins so the problem with cancer and tumors
that when you do resurgery is that how much are
you allowed to take out without damaging the
healthy cells yes correct and microscopically
you can't see it yeah so radiation has to come
in to get the little bits that are left over
that are possibly left over And then you have
chemo, but I didn't have to do chemo, thank God.
So tumors for us, we don't have the chemo protocol
yet. For me, I'm glad, but I'm sure some people
want it. Amanda, I feel the older we get, the
more important protein is. But the thing is,
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.sg, get cooking. And who knows, you could even
get $250 off your next shop. I have to ask then,
so you go through this brain tumor, you go through
the radiation and you think. That's it. I'm done.
All set. That has to be my health scare for my
lifetime. And then it's 2023. Can you talk us
through that process? I was fine after the brain
tumor. Honestly, I was a rich tie -tie. I wish
I could be a rich tie -tie. For our American
listeners, that basically means like, you know,
real housewives of Singapore. So we can just
chill and be ladies of lunch and leisure. So
I read books. I didn't exercise. I didn't eat
healthy. I just gave myself permission. permission
to retire at the age of 39 at the time then I
started getting headaches that didn't seem to
be related to my brain tumor at all so there
were different headaches yeah so this was like
I don't know it's like tension it was in my neck
and shoulder and then I had that starting like
2020 just after um covid it brought me to a very
very dark place um I had this every single day
from the moment I wake up to the moment I sleep
and I still have it right now so As I'm talking
to you, I have a headache. And so I ran all over
Singapore looking for something. So it brought
me to TCM, which was the first natural thing.
The Western medicine, I got steroid injections
into my neck. It didn't work. It just gave me
pimples. I got Botox injected into my neck, but
it didn't really work. I thought it would help
my face, but it really didn't because it was
insurance covered. And then I went into like
bioresonance. I did TRE, which is trauma release
exercise. I did rolfing. I've done... Rolfing,
what's that? Rolfing is fascia. Oh, yes. Okay,
yeah, yeah. Fascial therapy. Yes. Everything
in our body is connected by fascia. It looks
like spider webs. So one part's tight. If you
release it, then the pain will go away. How do
they actually... Is it like with rolling? There's
different methods. It's called rolfing initially
because of Dr. Rolf. Okay. And she discovered
that the fascia, if you move a certain way or
you pull the skin away from the, it sounds a
little painful. It is painful. But afterwards
you feel amazing because you feel loose. A lot
of high level tennis players use it. Oh, okay.
Because it can like basically, yeah, it makes
you loose and it prevents injury. Yes. It makes
you more flexible and like less tight. Maybe
I need to try this. Yeah. Yeah. There's plenty
actually. So I realized there's everything simple.
So I looked at Vipassana. Oh, yeah. Which is
a 10 -day silent meditation that exists here
too. Somebody did that. One of our guests. Oh,
really? The guy who owns Grain Traders. We're
giving a free plug to Grain Traders now. Thanks,
Grain Traders. Yeah. He went on a 10 -day silent
retreat. Yeah. And I can imagine that could be
so tough. Yeah. So tough. No, I really wanted
to do it. Looking at all these different modalities,
I finally came upon energy healing. Okay. I was
at a high school in Korea on the military base,
the American school. And he brought me to this
energy place. And Korean energy is, well, it's
called gi. In Chinese, it's chi. In Sanskrit,
it's called prana. In Hawaiian, it's called mana.
So there's a lot of words for energy in different
languages, culture. So then I went to this place
here called Center for Inner Studies. And pranic
healing is what I studied. Initially, you go
to a Tuesday. And every Tuesday night, there's
a little introductory lecture. And then a free
session of pranic healing from one of the volunteers.
So I learned all the classes because I wanted
to heal myself. so my motivation was myself but
in the in the process i got understand the spiritual
side and that as a scientist i was very skeptical
right as scientists we can be very arrogant and
only believe in our five senses what can we prove
with our five senses but there's a lot more and
once you can feel the energy in your hands which
i learned at 16 and i've always felt it since
i'm now 45 i decided this is going to be What
I want to do is that I really want to explain
science, or sorry, the spiritual modalities in
a science term that people will then understand
and give it a try. Because it's free. What's
a mantra? Our voice. This is a voice box that
we're an instrument that we have and it's free.
All those modalities, I was chasing all that.
And I got really depressed, to be honest, because
nothing worked. And you're really still chasing
this just for your for pain management, more
or less. It is pain management. So I, you know,
other people have emotional pain or mental pain.
I have physical pain. Yeah. The universe is showing
it to me that this is what I need to work on.
So then 2022, I decided to go to the States.
to try some shrooms to experience some modalities
well that's one of them that's one of them i
feel like i was listening to something yesterday
i can't remember which podcast it was but they
are actually talking about So there is a new
movement where psychedelics are micro -dosed
like LSD and they're monitored and DNA and they
have a bad rap from the 60s and because they
were abused and whatever but to be honest they
can actually really help you with your pain everything
pain is a perception in your brain right and
if these psychedelics are affecting your brain
it can at least for the meantime, help you get
to a point where you get some guidance to help
sustain and maintain your pain management. Okay,
I do have to ask, though. So, again, you're exploring
all these modalities and doing all these things,
and then you tell Dean and the kids. Oh, no,
I don't tell the kids that. Because you're like,
yeah, here's the next step. So, mommy's just
going to fly to the U .S., grab some shrooms,
I'll be back in a hot sec. Like, how did you
navigate that? With your life? It was about two
years of pain at that point. And I was desperate.
I'm in despair. And when you're in despair, like
you're - Nothing sounds absurd, right? Yeah.
I was suicidal. I was in so much pain right here.
I imagine just bashing my head into the wall
and ending it all. And then I believe in reincarnation,
think, okay, I'm gonna just start over. But then
I was like, okay, well, if I'm at this state,
I wrote letters to my husband and my kids. You
know, I was ready. I was like, well, then maybe
I should just take this trip without the kids
to go to the States and try everything I can,
you know, to see if anything can help. So my
friend there just happened to be very into the
microdosing. So he offered to be my trip sitter.
And so I sat in his guest room and I hugged the
pillow and I put a nice shade on and I had a
terrible trip. But in hindsight, I got very good
messages from it. okay very clear i initially
i thought i was going through a haunted house
the music in my ear started being like you know
those like halloween music eerie i was going
up a wooden creaky wooden uh halloween like haunted
house okay and then went on forever my pain in
my body like exponentially increased and then
i switched to korean so my my friend who is like
caucasian he was like trying to help me he's
like Sarah, I don't know what you're saying.
And I was like in Korean going, 아버지, 아버지, I can't
do it. 너무 안돼요, 너무 안돼요. And he's like, what are
you doing? I can't help you. So while you're
going through this trip, do you know, so is it
almost like a lucid dream where you kind of know
that this is happening? But there's nothing you
can do. There's nothing you can control. But
you're aware of what it is. You are. But it just
feels very real. Yeah, it feels very real. And
the only reason I'm bringing this up is because
actually the other night I was having a lucid
dream. Oh, very good. I felt like my mouth was
taped and I was being held captive. And somebody
was like. poking their nails like long nails
into my oh hand and i'm shouting you fucking
bitch but because my mouth was taped i'm going
you fucking bitch you fucking bitch and my husband
in real life next to me was like and then i realized
what i was doing and i and i knew at the time
i was dreaming and and then the next morning
i asked him and he was like you were singing
i was like i wasn't singing i was saying you
fucking bitch it's crazy though so weird but
I knew in my dream it was a dream but I was almost
paralyzed and I couldn't move and that's what
it feels like does it yeah yeah yeah and I guess
the thought of being in like a scary situation
like yeah like and I tell people I don't have
a lot of fears I don't fear that thing I just
jump into whatever yeah but I felt true terror
and then at that point I was like oh simple to
get out of this pain, I can just kill myself.
And that's during the trip? Yeah, in the trip.
Your friend that was there. is he were you aware
can you see him or he's just not so you don't
even okay okay so i mean i can hear him if he
talks to me but but you can't but it's not what
does that feel like for you then oh obviously
it's just you're just in your head like you're
you're seeing these images you feel whatever
the sensation is yeah so at the time i felt excruciating
pain and then so i told myself like i can end
it by killing myself but this voice then came
and said no sarah okay this is eternal and that
despair of no way out, that got me to such the
darkest place I've ever thought I could be in.
And then another voice came in, and it was Mother
Earth. I know this sounds really strange, but
honestly, it was a female voice, and she said,
the amount of pain you're in is the amount of
pain I'm in. And I was like, oh, okay. She's
like, help me. And I was like, how? I want to.
I was born on April 22nd, which is International
Earth Day. And so I do feel compelled to help
somehow. I just don't know how. And I said, please
give me some reprieve so I can help you because
right now I'm just laying in bed all day. And
she only says, be loud. And I said, how? And
then she disappeared. And in my mind I was thinking,
be loud. Okay, I am vocal. I do express myself
a lot. But like maybe Instagram, I don't know,
you know. I finally put it up. I looked at the
wall. It was like, wah, like rainbows, like wah,
wah. And I stumbled over to the bathroom, peed,
got up, and I was washing my hands, and the window
is sun coming through it. And it was bright,
and I was like, what the hell? How long has it
been? And then I was like, and it sounds really
cheesy, but at that exact moment, like I said,
when you're in the darkest place on earth, just
seek the light. Not just the light, it's the
act of seeking for it. When you're in the dark,
all you want to do is lay down. You want to have
a self -pity party. It's very hard when you're
in a dark place and you're depressed, despair,
and you feel like there's no answers and no one
to help you. You just want to lay down. But if
you want to get out of it and you feel like that's
what you want to do. You want to make the effort.
Then remember to seek the light. And people ask
me, what's the light? I'm like, well, physical
light, easy, the sun. Or you write happy memories,
some things that bring you joy. There's actually
a chart by Dr. Joe Dispenza that I love because
as a scientist, he measured the frequency or
the vibration of each emotion. So at the top,
you have bliss. Which is very hard to get to,
actually, unless you're eating like an amazing,
like crispy cream donut or something. I don't
know. Or like, you know, orgasms. There could
be other ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not
as very frequent, but that's the highest vibration.
And then there's joy, gratitude, love, you know,
and at the bottom you have. guilt revenge despair
despair yes to be honest when you meditate and
you bring your vibration up towards those higher
vibrations your cells in your body so as a scientist
now your cells in your body they vibrate optimally
at those higher vibrations if they're at the
low vibration it's chaotic it goes so if you
want that kind of proof to motivate you to motive
like meditate And so one more thing is the earth
vibrates at 7 .83 hertz. It's called the Schumann's
resonance. This is the science part of me. And
the average vibration of a human body is 5 hertz.
If we meditate and bring the vibration up to
be more congruent with earth, don't we want to
vibrate with earth in synchrony? So it brings
our health. to an optimal state i have to say
what something that my husband is so we work
in health practice and something that we always
say to our patients like this is so hard it's
so complicated there's so many moving parts we're
like think of just being an optimal human yes
meaning go outside when it's light and go to
sleep when it's dark yes Eat an omnivorous diet
that matches the energy that you need to fuel
your day. It is actually not that complicated.
If you can just be more human, it actually pays
off in spades. And I think that's very similar
to what you're talking about. And I think right
now we're at the age where there's so much shared
online and so much content. Clutter. You don't
know who to believe and who to follow. And even
me. I don't know. The listeners, like, I'm not
an expert. I'm just sharing my experience. If
it works for you, great. And in the future, I'm
only explaining what the spiritual different
modalities are scientifically so that maybe you'll
try because maybe it'll make sense to you. Yeah,
exactly. Maybe this is the way that you'll find
the path. Yeah, like why does a certain way of
breathing help your body? It's like, duh, we
breathe. No, but actually there's different methods
that will actually encourage different energy.
and vibrations in our body what's your thoughts
on then things like grounding can that sort of
like going outside with barefooted can that help
you know bring you back to i walk around my condo
barefoot everywhere we live near holland village
and we i can walk to holland village and i walk
barefoot there i'm gonna keep an eye out yeah
yeah well i think we're always in holland i think
if you ask the people around there they're like
oh yeah that's a barefoot girl yeah yeah especially
in the rain i walk barefoot because i feel like
i trust my feet more than my shoes oh i totally
understand it's weird because One day, my husband
and I were like, we're going to do some grounding.
We're going to wake up early. We're going to
go out for a walk, but we're not going to wear
our shoes. I was a little bit self -conscious.
I was like, fuck, we're going to be walking outside
with no shoes on. We did it. Ended up in a park.
And we were like, right, what do we do now? And
he's like, do you want to hug a tree? I'm like,
really? Your husband and I will get along. I'm
a tree hugger. I mean, he said to me, do you
want to hug a tree? And I was like, do I want
to hug a tree? I'm going to be like some kind
of weirdo hippie. Yeah, yeah. But then we just
sat by the tree instead. But yeah, we did it
once. my feet were so filthy and it was like,
fuck, now it's just like, clean them before you
get inside. So honestly, the grounding is the
best for clearing your chakras, your energy centers.
So over time now with practicing, I can see people's
auras. Auras are just energy fields. I can see
yours and yours. I hope it's not as black as
my soul. No, no. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. If
you do see black, it means that that area is
diseased. Yeah. And so one time in Venice Beach,
like a long time ago before kids, I was walking
to a hair appointment and this random guy ran
up to me and he's like, your back is black. Oh,
my God. And he's like, let me help you. Let me
help you. And I was like, no, dude, I don't know
who you are. So I kept walking. It was like 2010.
Oh, wow. So before any of the tumors. I was before
kids. It was like a long time ago. I had back
pain. Now I know as a person of energy that,
and I understand what each chakra and what it
means, is I was very like confused about my career.
It was just before I switched to fashion. And
that area is your root chakra, which is your
sense of like security and sense of survival
and financial security. It makes sense now. Can
we talk about the switch to fashion? Because
how intimidating it is to be a woman in science,
right? Achieving the level of PhD at one of the
most prestigious institutions in the United States.
And then to say. actually, plot twist, I'm going
to go to FITM with the 19 -year -olds and study.
And FITM, by the way, is the Fashion Institute
of Design and Merchandising. It's a highly prestigious
fashion institute in Los Angeles. And say, I'm
going to do fashion design. And again, there's
the whole trope about disappointing your Asian
parents, and you can touch on that if you'd like.
But more so as the woman, as the person going
through it, how dare she abandon this conventional
model of success for something so feminine and
below her? That's a very good question. It's
like, what is the motivation to actually do it?
And how do you get through? You know people are
thinking that. Let's put it that way. You know
people are thinking that. Not only were they
thinking that, they told me. Oh, yeah. I'm sure
people said it. No, I totally told a couple of
friends. And one of them specifically said, Sarah,
I don't think you should switch. You have a PhD.
You worked hard for it. And then my mom, I told
her. And she said, you're going to throw away
your PhD. You're a doctor now. I'm like. Mom,
I'm always going to have my PhD. I'm not throwing
it away. You don't forfeit it. No, I don't forfeit
it. It's going to be permanently on my record,
whether I like it or not. First tried to have
a job after fashion school. I thought I should
go to retail, so I went for an interview at Express.
It doesn't exist anymore, right? No, it does
not exist. You are in deep millennial America
right now. Express equals life. I wish I knew
the British equivalent to make this so relevant.
Express is like you shop there. Is it closed?
It's closed. We're going to do an off air. First
of all, in the show notes, we're going to include
a link to Express. I'm going to show you what
Express was. It was the quintessential millennial
fashion spot. the men's version was structure
yes and then the women oh it's in my soul right
now sarah okay so you apply to express as a retail
person as a retail assistant yeah yeah yeah with
your with your phd so i had to that's why that's
i'm saying like on my resume i actually deleted
it i omitted it because i was too overqualified
yeah yeah they wouldn't hire me absolutely not
yeah she's she's doing this as a research project
yeah yeah so i went and then i did a um one hour
like employee video and i quit i was like i was
saying well this is ridiculous i don't need to
go into retail to be in fashion design yeah i
would say retail is kind of the the less glam
part of fashion because i thought that would
be like my you know playing my dude yes yes yes
totally getting the experience but yeah it's
like washing dishes in the restaurant right yeah
exactly to become a chef yeah i picked up another
job as a a fashion show dresser. Oh, that sounds
fun. Yeah, especially because my first job was
for Guess. Because Guess is in LA. I know Guess.
I do know Guess. Okay, Guess is relevant. And
that event was catered by Wolfgang Puck. Oh.
He lives in LA too. This is the most LA event
that ever LA'd. Go on. It was my first job. I
had no idea. No one preps you on how to be the
dresser. I just kind of lied that I said I know
how to do it to get the job. Yeah. Okay, by the
way, this is kind of a theme in my life. I just
kind of lie to get whatever i want i mean just
you know whatever thank you i did that it's a
fit i mean it doesn't hurt anybody so i went
and i told my male model because this one had
male models and female but i had a male model
and he like we got along so well he proposed
to me that's insane but i was like it wasn't
dean was it no what's the plot twist again And
I was like, no, I'm married. And then and then
I was like, this is my first day. And he's like,
really? And then so you're supposed to have a
first look and then second look. Right. But I
put him in the second look first because I didn't
know that there was a sequence. Tragedy. And
so he went to the stylist and got sent back.
And he's like, oh, it really is your first day.
And I was like, OK, take off your clothes and
give it to me. But yeah, the fashion thing. Yeah,
I think like the transition. Yeah, exactly. How
do you manage that transition? To be honest,
I think something in you knows that this is your
truest self. The other popular story online that
you'll see is that my brother got into a motorcycle
accident. He was riding Sunset Boulevard in LA.
It's very squiggly. Before nightfall, they come
back home, but then he hit an unmarked pothole
and lost control of his motorcycle and went to
the other side of the road. An oncoming SUV hit
his head. Slammed it into the, but it was helmeted.
Oh, thank God. And as a neuroscientist who actually
studies spinal cord injuries and paralysis, I
gave him a spine guard because I knew he, he
wouldn't tell my parents that he had a motorcycle,
but I bought him that because he told me. And
then, so he was sent to UCLA. He had eight hour
surgery. We didn't know he was going to live.
I was in Chicago as a postdoc in Northwestern
University. I flew over and I didn't know he
was going to be alive or not. Next two years,
i'm his caregiver i'm his decision maker i have
the i signed the power of attorney wow because
my parents don't speak the english like the medical
english that i do some of the clinical trials
were done by my phd um committee members yeah
one of them came in the professor came in and
was like sarah what are you doing here he's like
is this your brother i was like yeah so and his
head was the size of a watermelon oh my god so
you take out a part of the bone so that the swelling
of the brain can have some space otherwise they'll
continue to continually push push and become
a contusion oh my god and i'll further do brain
damage anyway that was two years and actually
after that i said nope i'm gonna live my life
and what i wanted i want to be fashion designer
why because i was obsessed with clothes And most
obsessions as adults come from a place of deprivation,
maybe from childhood. My dad was in the US Army.
They immigrated from Korea to the States. We
didn't have much money. They always said, save,
save, save. Never got to buy anything. All my
clothes were hand -me -downs from cousins in
New York. So as an adult, I was obsessed with
clothes. And I was very good at drawing. So then
I... Translated the drawing and the art skills
into fashion because I wanted it to be something
that was actually lucrative Yeah, something that
I can make money with and so I went to fit them
with a bunch of 17 year olds and High -heeled
shoes and we go to industrial sewing class and
industrial sewing machines are not your typical
machines at home They are a car when you turn
it on it goes And then when you start sewing
it's like I only learned that from Project Runway.
I did not learn that from real life. So as I
was progressing, I quit because I want to go
to Parsons. And because of that, I had all this
time. I had no more homework to do. So I went
on the scholarship page and I submitted a design
for this contest called... designed the little
black dress by laundry seagull laundry seagull
is a big brand back then but it's probably gone
now too and um so i just drew one and sent it
in then i don't want anything i don't want any
contest i'll just let's just send it in so i
did that months later i'm in australia with dean
and i get this email and i think it's junk about
to delete it but i was like oh you're the grand
prize winner wow so then my dress got produced
and sold at all the majors. Majors are called
the department stores versus the minors, like
the little boutiques. So it was at Macy's, Dillard's.
Do those names ring a bell or no? Macy's, yes.
Dillard's is a Texas thing. Because I think the
New York ones I would know. Nordstrom? Yes, I
do know. And it was called the Sarah Dress. Oh
my gosh. So that kind of propelled me. into fashion
yeah um or gave me like confidence yeah but in
the meantime though i had this condo in downtown
l .a right across the street from fiddham my
school i could see it from my living room like
a roll out of bed and go to school yeah i designed
it i loved it so much i loved interior design
so i was like huh so maybe i should apply for
interior design in parsons did you move to new
york though you never know i grabbed everything
to go and i gave up my apartment and didn't go
Because I was going to say, I've read your bio
up, down, and sideways. I never saw New York
in there. I was trying to go, but I never went.
And because in the middle, I went to go work
for Kelly Wurstler. She's a famous celebrity
interior designer. She does all the Viceroy hotels
in the world. She married a hotelier. And working
for her, if you think about a lot of people,
like minimalist style, she is maximalist. And
it's gorgeous and opulent. And oh, my God. Have
you been inside of Viceroy? I haven't. I think
I might have done. Yeah, just the one in Hollywood
is what I'm obviously most familiar with. There's
Hollywood and there's one in Santa Monica. It's
gorgeous. Then during that experience, that experience
was interesting. I learned a lot. The first day,
okay, the first day, I'm a 29 -year -old PhD
freedom dropout. And I lied also on my resume
and told them I know how to do CAD. Because interior
design, you know how to do a CAD, computer -aided
design. Oh, my. Okay, before I started my first
day, my architect friend came over and gave me
a one -hour tour. I was going to say, did you
have to get the book, like, CAD for Dummies?
Exactly. Learn it overnight. Exactly. But that's
all I did to prep for that job. So first day.
The project manager comes in and she tells me,
okay, so you have these two piles. You have this
invoice on one side that's one and this envelope
that's one. You put it together and you put it
here. Then you see invoice two and envelope two
and put it together and put it over here. I was
like, are you fucking kidding me? Does she know
I have a PhD? No, she doesn't. Okay, so then
I go and do it five minutes and I come back and
she gives me another menial job. And I go do
it and then I go to the bathroom and I cry. because
my husband and dean is in chicago still because
he's a professor there i left to do this fucking
job yeah yeah and fashion school and then like
delayed it because i can do this and then i came
back and i was and then she's like obviously
now annoyed because i'm doing it so fast so she's
like okay so cameron wants these bathroom mirrors
options so why don't you give me some couple
of options of that on cat i was like okay sure
I run over to my desk and I look at my computer.
I'm like, how do I draw a line? Oh, no. And I'm
sweating because I'm like, you can't take too
long, right? Because it should be simple. I was
just going to say, it should sound pretty simple
to someone who knows what that is. So I was like,
oh, my God, control L. I don't know. I don't
know. Okay. Is there a mirror button? So then
I did a couple and I. brought it over and she
said, okay, these look good, but she wants it
a little bit more intricate. I was like, of course
she does. Of course this person does. And I was
like, I'm sorry, you talk about Cameron as if
I should know this person. And she's like, oh,
it's Cameron Diaz. Oh my gosh. I was like, oh,
I will be right back. Yeah, give me a hot minute
for that. Yeah, I'll be right back. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, so then that same day, I actually got to
sit down with Kelly Whistler. And my project
manager, she let me sit with her. Usually you
don't really talk to the god, you know, the goddess.
And we're designing the walk -in closets of Gwen
Stefani. Oh, my God. That sounds like the dream
job. And I look and there's like a whole area
for belts, a whole area for hats. Okay, that
sounds like a dream closet. Yeah, I could sleep
there. I had these fake black rimmed glasses.
By the way, all my glasses, I don't need glasses.
I have 20 -20 vision. Don't hate me. Yeah, no,
I do, but go on. And then I just wear this for
fashion. So I wore these black rimmed glasses
and she was like, she took it off and she was
like, oh, I like this. And I'm like, you look
good in it. Did you keep them? No, no, no. If
she wanted it, I would. Yeah, I was going to
say, I was like, that's very cool. I think I
actually bought them from Daiso. Be like, they're
yours now. They're really high end. Yeah, yeah.
So I gave it to her. But yeah, that was my first
day. i mean honestly i feel like in life for
me i wasn't scared people ask about the pivot
yeah but honestly like i don't know what it is
about me but i just jump in like in high school
you're talking about other moments of pivot in
high school i didn't know how to play soccer
but in high school i really wanted to huh Football.
Yeah, she's translated. And my son actually says
football and we argue about that. Is it a stake
in your heart every time? It is. I'm like, you're
an American boy. That's a sport that exists and
it's better. So, you know. I do. No, but I do
actually say to my boys whenever they have an
Americanism, I'm like, we're English. Reminding
them, reminding them. Like in high school, so
I didn't know how to play soccer, but I just
tried out for the JV team. I was a freshman.
I didn't get into the JV team. What's JV? Sorry,
that's in the university. It's like the, you
know, the entry level team. So there's two levels,
JV and varsity. So I was like 14, right? And
then, so then I was like, okay, whatever. It
makes sense because I don't know how to play
soccer, right? But then they decided to make
two JV teams. So then I was like, they're like,
everybody comes. So this time I took my mom to
Itaewon in Korea, Seoul, and got the shin guards,
the socks, the shoes. and to get all the proper
equipment, and then I showed up. And by the end
of the season, because I worked my ass off, maybe
there's some inner drive in me, I got invited
to be on the varsity team. Yay! As a freshman.
Wow. And then the next year, I tried out and
got to be varsity. So that's my first story.
And I tell my kids about this too, like try.
Yeah. If you're driven enough, you can get what
you want. Yeah. I think honestly, Sarah, you
know, Jasmine said it previously and it's like,
you are the epitome of fake it till you make
it. And while, by the way, by the way, you know,
sometimes that will backfire to a small extent.
So your example with the CAD, right? It's like,
it's like you didn't really have that skill.
But in the end, you were actually able to make
it work, right? You were able to make it happen.
And then if you look retrospectively back at
that, had you gone to school for two years to
learn CAD, it wouldn't have changed the outcome
that much. And I think that that's the story
that women need to really grasp onto is, you
know, what is the opposite of imposter syndrome?
It is Dr. Sarah Namian, okay? It's like, you
know, like I am fully an imposter, but I won't
be once I am in this world, right? It's like,
so once I step into this world, then in fact,
I can master it. And I think that is such a powerful
message that it doesn't have to be the other
way around. You don't have to earn it every single
time. You can actually learn it. I think most
things, if you're passionate about it, you can
learn on the job. and you can master it yeah
if your obsession is that you will learn everything
about it if that makes brings you joy you will
remember and that's how like certain schools
are called reggio reggio and that's the school
that i pick for my kids because it's joy -based
yeah and and you don't have to memorize because
if you had the joy of baking chocolate chip cookies
you won't have to look at the recipe recipe you
remember it you're so right it's like when i
you know when i was the first a personal trainer
and people were like how do you remember all
the different workouts for all the different
clients and i was like because it's i i don't
even have to think about it i just i just know
i know what they need it's not a struggle for
you it's not at all like i it's not an issue
of remembering because it's already there exactly
in your soul and then you look at the patient
and you're like oh are your client like oh they're
struggling here and then you know the exercise
to help that correct And it's like, yeah, it
just flows. And even when you do qualify with
whatever you're doing, at no point in time while
I was doing my degree or my studies, did I ever
use what I learned while I was working. I agree.
It was completely different. I was like, well,
I just spent like four years at university. never
used any of it yeah i tell people like an undergrad
and learning thing my grades were kind of bad
yeah and then grad school i kind of figured out
how actually studying works yeah and then um
by the way in grad school i was a cadaver teacher
yeah with like human bodies yes for permitted
students anyways on my second pivot story though
are kind of a crazy story is um i was i don't
know how to swim okay oh god And I wanted to
become a lifeguard. Wow. OK. Because I was at
the pool every day in the summer to get a tan
because I made you look thinner. This was in
LA, right? This was actually in Korea. Oh, this
was in Korea? Oh, OK. Wow. I was like, well,
if I'm at the pool every day during the summer,
I want to make money doing it. You know, so I
was like, maybe I'll become a lifeguard. And
so in Korea. On base or the school, they had
American Red Cross, had CPR and lifeguard training.
So I did it. The swimming part, the requirement
was you just need to get from one side of the
pool to the other. Yes. Easy. I remember that
because I went through lifeguard training. Oh,
you did? Yeah. But you probably swam. I mean,
I was a pretty decent swimmer. I walked across
in the shallow end. And they gave it to me. Wow.
I'm a good test taker. They were desperate for
lifeguards. And that is the letter of the law.
So you gave it to the other side. So I took that
and I went to Texas because my dad was then stationed
in Texas. And I wanted to be a lifeguard in the
summer. So I applied there. I interviewed very
well with this woman named Leslie. She's lovely,
very tall. And I am very professional. i'm a
16 year old talking very professionally so she
hires me on the spot i was like great she's like
okay she'll show up in a week for the training
class or you know the groups you can meet the
other lifeguards i was like great i showed up
first exercise is a 1500 meter swim oh no under
15 minutes oh gosh the whistle goes and everyone
starts they all gracefully dive in and then they
swim freestyle right For me, I plop in. I have
no cap. I have no goggles. I plop in. And I don't
know what I'm doing. But in the end, everyone's
done. And I finish later elementary backstroke.
You know what that is? That's not even backstroke.
It's this. Oh, yeah. Yep. Yeah. It's like waving
yourself through the water. You're like a squid.
Yes. I got across. But again, you made it. I
came out. Yeah. And she stared down at me like
towering height. And she goes, Sarah. i'm like
oh but i wasn't even scared she was just like
she didn't get mad she's just like you're coming
in every day you have no bathroom duties you're
swimming you're swimming every day i was like
okay so by the end of the summer i was the second
fastest wow on that team wow and then they asked
me to become on the lifeguard team yeah our first
contest with um hurricane harper it's kind of
like wild here okay yeah anyway so that's my
other story of of trying to literally jump in
the deep end and learn how to swim oh man well
girl we are coming into our last minute on the
podcast so i want to ask you the question that
we ask every single guest sitting in this chair
right in you know one to two sentences What is
your 40s formula? What do you tell women that
are looking to thrive in this decade? Yeah, and
I think about that a lot. And for me, with every
day, my mantra is I look for the light. I look
towards the light. And the light means positive
thoughts. And I never say bad things about people.
Why dirty your own energy? Just stay positive.
Love. Love for everyone. You look great. You
look beautiful. Oh, wow. Thank you so much. You
know, like hold the door open. Kindness. Honestly,
it spreads and then multiplies. And it's not
that hard to do. I've been to darkest place,
but to be in the bright, it's better. To be in
the light is better. You said it, girl. Like
you said earlier, it's simple. Eat right or eat.
what you need exercise move your body moving
your body is definitely a need yeah in the 40s
which i didn't i just kind of took for granted
in my 30s and 20s but honestly it's just to keep
positive yeah yeah seek the light i know it just
sounds a little woo -woo but it's honestly just
the best And it will change your life if you
practice it. It works, girl. Thank you so much
for being with us today and sharing your story
so candidly, Sarah. We really appreciate it.
Thank you. Guys, you know we love coffee. And
if you want to show us some love, you know you
can always get us one. Just visit buymeacoffee
.com slash the 40s formula. Cheers. Before we
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and we'll be back next week for more empowering
conversations with inspiring guests. Bye. So
good. My God. It is a burger place from the heavens.
Okay. They put a slab of butter on the burger.
Oh, is that what it is? And it's called a butter
burger. Yes, girl. And it's so good. And it's
juicy. It's a new Baru. I'm not wearing. So he's
going to go and get it and bring it home. Oh,
okay. Because I want to eat the greasy burger
in sweats. Yes. I'm not going to be looking like
this at home. I'm really now hungry. Like it
literally just hit it for me. I do have to say,
I did hear your stomach rumble. Yeah. No, like
I, it's just like. encompassed my need for food.
I will eat my snacks after this.