WEBVTT

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Why is that normal? Doesn't that look abnormal?

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And then I get freaked out when you say to me

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that that's not normal to me. Again, I'm in an

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echo chamber of very awake friends, which I've

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done purposely because of the trauma in my childhood.

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I wonder if I had I didn't have the trauma in

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my childhood that gifted the awareness. whether

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I would be the same. So I don't want to pass

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judgment because I'm maybe they've had like a

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really happy go lucky life and they're lulled

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into like automated behaviors. Maybe that sort

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of ignorance is kind of bliss. Maybe that's what

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I talk about in chapter one when the therapist

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asked me, you know, what do you want to get out

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of this? I was like, I just want to be one of

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those basic people that water just washes off

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the like criticisms like water off the duct.

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I want to be that person that is triggered by

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nothing because I'm just apathetic through life.

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Hey, and welcome to The 40s Formula, your go

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-to place for insightful discussions on navigating

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the 40s and thriving in this transformative decade.

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We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda, two women

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that are passionate about exploring the challenges

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and adventures that come with turning 40 and

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what lies ahead. Today on The 40s Formula, we're

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going to be talking about one of the five pillars

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of health. that we haven't yet touched upon,

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and that is social connection and its antithesis,

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loneliness. Loneliness isn't just about being

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alone, it's about being unseen, unheard and disconnected,

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even when you're surrounded by people. Our guest

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today knows this struggle firsthand and has dedicated

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her time to understand human connection. She's

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a global speaker, a bestselling author of Let's

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Talk About Loneliness and an expert in helping

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people and companies bridge the gap between feeling

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connected and disconnected. And that's why we're

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so excited to have Simone hang with us today

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in the studio. Welcome, Simone. Hello. Thank

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you for having me, ladies. Oh, it's our pleasure.

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We're so excited to have you here and to talk

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about loneliness, connection, disconnection.

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And I think we live in a time now where Everyone

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is more connected. They're connected via social

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media, connected through their phones, the internet,

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even with the amount of people around them. But

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yet, there's still so much loneliness. Why do

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you think that is? So the loneliness epidemic

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that we're seeing globally, right, it's not just

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isolated to any country, is through what they

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call the conditions of modernity. And these are

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things like social media and the digital paradox.

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The way that our cities are planned now, they're

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no longer like when we stopped being nomadic

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as homo sapiens, we planned our cities around

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a central place of worship or a piazza. Well,

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we don't build our cities that way anymore. We

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barely have third spaces. If you even want to

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sit in certain cities like London, you have to

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buy a coffee to Starbucks to even get a place

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to sit to get. out of the cold. So those third

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spaces have gone missing. And we can also add

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to that capitalism. You know, we're seeing this

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even in China, which is not even meant to be

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a capitalist country right now, with overwork

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of young people due to the downturn of the economy

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for the first time in three decades. They're

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working so much they barely have time for family.

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And that's huge when you come from the Chinese

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diaspora or you're Chinese. It's one of the most

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filial countries in the world. Family comes first.

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And the fact that the conditions of capitalism

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have even incepted that culture shows you how

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pervasive some of these conditions of modernity

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are. So those are the summer things. I would

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add polarization and distrust in institutions,

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as well as some of the contributing factors to

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loneliness. You talk about in your book sort

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of being connected and being disconnected. Why

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do you think this is happening now? Why are people

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being more sort of disconnected from the world?

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First, let's define what loneliness is. It's

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the gap between the kind and amount of human

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connection you want and the kind and amount of

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human connection you're getting. You can be disconnected

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when you're surrounded by people or you can be

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disconnected when connected to friends online.

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It's about quality of connection. And so even

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within your own family, if they don't share similar

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values or they're negatively polarized connections,

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as I talk about in the book, you can feel very

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lonely. I think the big why that's happening

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right now is to do with some of the factors that

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I mentioned before. Let's look. particularly

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at the digital space and something that Dr. Pamela

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Rutledge, I was just speaking with at Harvard

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on Saturday night, she calls algorithmic isolation.

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I've talked about this before in terms of human

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connection and AI companions, but I never used

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that term. Algorithmic isolation is basically

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where you feel you're more alone in your hobbies,

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likes, views, inclinations, because your algorithm

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only shows you your own opinion looped back to

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yourself, right? And then when you come into

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contact with a new human being that doesn't reflect

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those views, you're more rigid in your opinions

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because you feel that you're in an echo chamber

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that's telling you you're right. And you're also

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more inclined to not bridge that gap and go through

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any sort of frictional discomfort to connect

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people. So I would say the biggest issue that

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we're having why people are feeling more lonely

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if we look at our generation, older millennials

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and below, could be to do with the polarization

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caused by these apps that we're on circulating

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our opinion back to ourselves, therefore also

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making us, I guess, a little reticent to go through

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the friction. of making real life human connection,

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which is a bit messy, which is a bit, you know,

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there's a filtering process. You ladies found

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me on Instagram. We've walked in. We're wearing

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the same color palette. We're the same age. We

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have the same cultural East and Western understanding.

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We've talked, talked, talked before even recording.

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And the algorithm gave us each other. That was

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so easy. Yeah. So then why would I make an effort?

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Right. Is the psychology. and not everyone is

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as extroverted as me. So imagine someone's introverted,

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then they have to go to a dinner. But they have

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to sit next to someone who obviously doesn't

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have the same algorithm as them. Why would they

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bother? So of course you've got to get less connection.

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In our analog childhood, which we all remember

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here, we had to go to school and we had to make

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friends. We had to go to Chinese Mandarin class

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on the weekend and make friends with people that

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definitely didn't have the same algorithm that

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wasn't around them. And that flexes your human

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connection muscles that makes you a powerful

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social connector. And the algorithms, I guess,

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made us a bit lazy. We don't have to do that

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anymore. And I think everyone wants ease of life

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now, don't they? It's like on demand. Yes. And

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if it's not immediate, if it's not easy, if it's

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not the same as what I think, then I don't really

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give a shit. And I think that's what ends up

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happening. And I think it's veiled in this very

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theropized language now, which is all around.

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Oh, I have a boundary. This is me. I'm protecting

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my time. It's like that can also get too much

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too. You need to and anyone who has children

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who's listening, you need to also encourage your

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children to be able to have difficult conversations,

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to overcome friction in friendships because their

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social skills, if they are socially fluent, they

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will stand out in the workforce of the future

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where they're going up against AI and everything's

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perfect and automated. AI will make everything

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human move higher up the value chain. Being a

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great human connector is one way to safeguard

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your children's future employment. Yes. And girl,

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first of all, I don't know what your upcoming

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book. title is but if a book title exists called

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analog childhood lessons learned from a millennial

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i don't know i feel like there's something there

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yes but that makes me think okay again i love

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the term analog childhood because i do think

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like that is now an antiquated like that is something

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we can put on a shelf now and look at as something

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that no longer exists right because it doesn't

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yeah it's it's not something that these kids

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could ever we are the last generation the last

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ones that remember it had it could even vocalize

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it, right? And that's gonna get further and further

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away. What you mentioned about people with kids

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encouraging those kids to have experiences that

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make them uncomfortable and force them to kind

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of, like you said, confront a little bit of conflict,

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a little bit of, you know, wariness that they

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wouldn't otherwise have is a, again, for someone

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with no kids, girl, that is a parenting skill.

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Oh, I'm auntie to 25 kids around the world. And

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I have to say, teaching your children to be uncomfortable,

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comes also from making yourself uncomfortable.

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So the best way to model to them not to be on

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their phones all the time is obviously to have

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their phones away. And that's not me critiquing

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parents, it's because I have some. amazing besties

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who model that to their kids, even though it's

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uncomfortable for them. So if they needed to

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check the phone, my girlfriend would say, I'm

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sorry, sweetheart, I just need to check on my

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husband. And then it's not like I just do this

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without asking permission as if the person in

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front of me doesn't exist. So she's modeling

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to the children. This is not a given that you

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can have your phone out. You must address the

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human in front of you first, and the phone a

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second. I think it's incredibly, and I try and

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be that auntie too. You mentioned in your book

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that there was a situation where you took a friend

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out for dinner and he was on Tinder or one of

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the dating apps. So bad. And it feels like natural

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now to go out and everyone's out, but yet they're

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doing their own thing. And you mentioned how,

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you know, you were... It was almost like the

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behavior that you did when you were in your 20s

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and you found it uncomfortable, you didn't like

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it. Why do you think people think that's the

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norm now? What is it about people just finding

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that, you know, we could be out for dinner, but

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yeah, I'm going to be on my phone and you're

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going to be on yours. I'm such a fan of human

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beings. I know I live in a really cynical world.

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Most people are just like, everyone's an idiot.

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I don't feel that way at all. I would say...

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Maybe it's my own in -person algorithm, but the

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people I'm surrounded by with now, now that I've

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moved into a place where I'm a force. And that

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is part of the title of the next book. It's like,

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how do you, how, you know, being a force in the

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world, I'm surrounded less and less by people

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who would not be aware and do something like

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that. But the former version of me with superfluous

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connections that were not necessarily quality

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controlled, because I, because of my childhood,

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I never had great boundaries. There are people

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who are asleep to this stuff. And then there

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are people who are awake. So I guess it's just,

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I think that's also what I always laugh about

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with my friends who are personal development

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authors as well. It's like, are we just writing

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to the already converted? Oh, that's a good question

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all the time. Is this podcast just broadcasting

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to the already awake people? And then, you know,

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I think that's also why dating has been really

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hard for me too. It's like, I'm looking for someone

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with that level of awareness, which I don't think

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is the majority. You know, I feel like, like

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you said, you know, we see the people that are

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there, but that's not a lot of the people. That's

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the problem. And again, not to bring everything

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back to family. Like suddenly I'm like mama,

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you know, on this podcast, but like same with

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families. It's like, you see families go out

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to dinner. And everyone is on their phone, the

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kids are on the iPad. And it's like that is family

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dinner now. That is family dinner. And it's like,

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you know, why is that normal? Doesn't that look

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see? And then I get freaked out when you say

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to me that that's not normal to me. Again, I'm

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in an echo chamber of very awake friends, which

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I've done purposely because of the trauma in

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my childhood. I wonder if I had I didn't have

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the trauma in my childhood that gifted the awareness.

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whether I would be the same. So I don't want

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to pass judgment because I'm maybe they've had

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like a really happy go lucky life and they're

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lulled into like automated behaviors. Maybe that

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sort of ignorance is kind of bliss. Maybe that's

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what I talk about in chapter one when the therapist

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asked me, you know, what do you want to get out

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of this? I was like, I just want to be one of

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those basic people that water just washes off

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the like criticisms like water off the duct.

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I want to be that person that is triggered by

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nothing because I'm just apathetic through life.

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Do those people exist though? That's the thing.

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Well, I later on found out that apathy is one

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of the lowest things on the vibrational scale

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of emotion. So it's actually not good to be apathetic.

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I don't think it should be the norm. I think

00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:39.100
there's enough information out there that it

00:12:39.100 --> 00:12:41.000
should be. But again, our algorithms are not

00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:44.740
their algorithms. Can we go back to your childhood

00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:47.960
and the traumas you faced? It was part of what

00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.940
led you to feel lonely and disconnected. Can

00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:53.379
you share with us? how that was and what that

00:12:53.379 --> 00:12:55.559
looked like for you? I want to begin by saying

00:12:55.559 --> 00:13:01.500
that trauma is absolutely a gift when you've

00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:04.080
processed this trauma. So I can speak about it

00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:05.679
now in a very matter of fact way. But when I

00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:07.580
was writing the book, it was extremely emotional

00:13:07.580 --> 00:13:10.399
for me. And now I'm almost a bit desensitized.

00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:13.159
So anyone who is watching that is like, I'm like

00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.440
this because my mother was like that, or my dad

00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.360
was like that, or this is it. when you move from

00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.159
that victimhood to it being a victory, then you

00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.159
become a force in the world to do better things.

00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.700
I can tell you, your book has made me cry multiple

00:13:25.700 --> 00:13:30.720
times. I was reading it and it just touched me

00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:32.980
in certain parts where I was just like, oh my

00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:36.019
God. So, you know, the fact that you have moved

00:13:36.019 --> 00:13:38.980
away from connecting the emotions means that

00:13:38.980 --> 00:13:42.299
you've definitely dealt with what was going on

00:13:42.299 --> 00:13:44.309
there. And also a book launch will do that to

00:13:44.309 --> 00:13:47.549
you because you get asked over and over again.

00:13:47.649 --> 00:13:50.169
I mean, it's still difficult. I was just in Australia

00:13:50.169 --> 00:13:54.529
and my mom, she's got one good hand left and

00:13:54.529 --> 00:13:58.190
she hit me on the face. And it was kind of, she

00:13:58.190 --> 00:14:00.570
was trying to be funny in front of my cousin

00:14:00.570 --> 00:14:02.669
and that, it still breaks my heart because I

00:14:02.669 --> 00:14:06.129
absolutely hate hanging around the nursing home

00:14:06.129 --> 00:14:09.250
and hanging out in Perth. It's really not me

00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:13.720
at all as a place. And you make those sacrifices

00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.580
and then you get that. It's still hard. But I

00:14:16.580 --> 00:14:18.980
have boundaries now. So I'm like, OK, mama, I'm

00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:21.039
going to go back to auntie's house. I'll see

00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.039
you tomorrow. I have boundaries now, whereas

00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:28.399
me before, no boundaries. I think the condition

00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:30.860
of many Asian daughters is to have no boundaries.

00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:33.600
You are taught that you must like flagellate

00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.500
yourself at the table of... being a sacrificial

00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:40.399
Asian daughter. And I think a lot of my awakening

00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:43.679
is unwiring that, re -parenting myself. I lost

00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:47.379
my dad when I was 19 years old and he was like

00:14:47.379 --> 00:14:49.600
my best friend. And he was the kind of balancing

00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:53.000
force in my, in the family. Very, very similar

00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:55.220
to me, that very affectionate, very soft, very

00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:58.080
warm. And my mom and my sister are more alike.

00:14:58.700 --> 00:15:02.460
And my mom was a force, like definitely brilliant,

00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.240
definitely gifted. but probably a little bit

00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:08.320
ahead of her time. As such, had kids, but I think

00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.320
she was actually a bit more like me. Like, I

00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.179
think if she could have lived the life that I

00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:14.899
live now. and fly all over the world and teach

00:15:14.899 --> 00:15:16.919
people. So she was a teacher at RGS, which is

00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:18.940
a very prestigious girl school here in Singapore.

00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:20.940
I kind of think she would have, but she was born

00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:23.500
in another era. So then she moves to the suburbs

00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:25.860
of Perth and I think there's this frustration

00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:28.159
and also she'd grown up with help in Singapore.

00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.019
So she's now having to manage these children

00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:33.860
that she's had really late in her life. So she's

00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:36.799
37 when she has me and 35 when she has my sister,

00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:38.940
which is ancient for that era. I was gonna say,

00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:40.340
I was like, you know, my first one was when I

00:15:40.340 --> 00:15:42.500
was 38, but I hear you, but I hear you for that

00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:45.440
era. And her and my dad got married at 21 and

00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:50.299
24 and tried for 13 years. And so I think all

00:15:50.299 --> 00:15:54.600
of these factors along with her very rare condition

00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.820
that she has led her to be, she was a very difficult

00:15:57.820 --> 00:16:02.259
mother. I'm not gonna frame it in any other way.

00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:05.259
She was difficult. And it's interesting after

00:16:05.259 --> 00:16:07.259
I wrote that book, like not one relative has

00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:10.379
come out and said, that it was inaccurate, you

00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:12.940
know? And I actually think I protected her and

00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:14.139
my dad a lot. There are a lot of things that

00:16:14.139 --> 00:16:17.179
are not in there because they don't work with

00:16:17.179 --> 00:16:20.299
the thesis of loneliness. So the book is not

00:16:20.299 --> 00:16:23.299
a memoir, it's about loneliness. But within this

00:16:23.299 --> 00:16:27.100
family system, those unpredictable moods, obviously,

00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.039
of one of your primary caregivers. impacted me

00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:32.379
by I developed a very anxious attachment style

00:16:32.379 --> 00:16:35.019
that shows up for me mostly in dating sometimes

00:16:35.019 --> 00:16:38.159
with friendships, but not so much, not in work,

00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:41.580
luckily. And along with that, I felt a lot of

00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:44.340
loneliness within my own family system. And I

00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:45.879
still feel that now when I go back and visit

00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:51.279
that I am wired so differently and was even then.

00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:54.679
to the rest of my family. I don't have this kind

00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:58.539
of Singapore risk aversion that the rest of the

00:16:58.539 --> 00:17:01.740
community that I grew up in has. I literally

00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:06.380
am very anti -authority. At the radio that I

00:17:06.380 --> 00:17:07.640
used to work at, they thought I was like the

00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:11.619
rebel. I am compared to like America. Or the

00:17:11.619 --> 00:17:14.279
UK. I am not a rebel. I'm like a rule follower.

00:17:14.660 --> 00:17:17.980
But in the context of like a local organization,

00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:21.240
that is just the best mindset to have as an entrepreneur.

00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:24.380
So again, all the things that are crushing and

00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:26.799
make you feel different and are wounding, honey,

00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:30.079
you're just not in the right place. Like, I would

00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:32.519
never be able to do what I do now without, like,

00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:34.519
I travel all over the world as a woman alone.

00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.619
If I was risk averse or a rule follower, God

00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:41.430
help me. I would be broke. I pay no money. Amanda,

00:17:41.750 --> 00:17:43.390
you know, we love the meat club, but you know

00:17:43.390 --> 00:17:45.289
what's even better than their premium ethically

00:17:45.289 --> 00:17:49.589
sourced meats? What's that? Getting $250 worth

00:17:49.589 --> 00:17:52.410
of your shopping for free. And that's exactly

00:17:52.410 --> 00:17:54.650
what we're going to be doing in our season five

00:17:54.650 --> 00:17:57.529
giveaway. All you have to do is show us the delicious

00:17:57.529 --> 00:18:00.109
meals that you make using the meat club products.

00:18:00.250 --> 00:18:03.700
Tag at the 40s formula. and at The Meat Club

00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:06.859
SG on Instagram or TikTok, and you stand a chance

00:18:06.859 --> 00:18:10.579
to win $250 worth of The Meat Club goodies. It

00:18:10.579 --> 00:18:13.059
can be a photo, a reel, and don't worry if your

00:18:13.059 --> 00:18:15.660
account's private, just drop us a DM and we'll

00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:18.099
count your entry. We'll be picking one lucky

00:18:18.099 --> 00:18:20.039
winner at the end of the season, so make sure

00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:22.619
to submit all those delicious meals before June

00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:24.559
5th. It's time to jump in the kitchen and get

00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:26.900
cooking, and we cannot wait to see what you make.

00:18:27.099 --> 00:18:29.460
It all worked out as it was, but I felt crippling.

00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.119
Look, I still feel quite lonely when I go back

00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:34.579
to Australia and I am to Perth particularly,

00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:38.059
and I tend to not meet up with many people. So

00:18:38.059 --> 00:18:40.480
I go visit mum and my cousin and best friend

00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.180
and I see my godkids. But I try not to have coffees

00:18:43.180 --> 00:18:46.220
and I try because it sometimes again, the algorithm

00:18:46.220 --> 00:18:49.140
thing that we talked about, my mindset now is

00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:54.680
so expansive and my palette for experience and

00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:59.130
what I consider exciting. is very broad. And

00:18:59.130 --> 00:19:02.109
that's not for everyone. And it isn't necessarily

00:19:02.109 --> 00:19:03.869
that's not necessarily a place where that comes

00:19:03.869 --> 00:19:06.170
up a lot. And so sometimes when I have that coffee,

00:19:06.210 --> 00:19:07.789
I get that cognitive dissonance that actually

00:19:07.789 --> 00:19:11.630
makes me feel I'm alone more, which is uncomfortable.

00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:14.450
So I try not to do too many family dinners. I

00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:17.910
try not to do that because it is just triggering

00:19:17.910 --> 00:19:22.769
for me of the kind of loneliness I don't want

00:19:22.769 --> 00:19:25.430
to be reminded of. And I think that's just human.

00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:27.660
during your journey, was there like a pivotal

00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:31.960
moment which really made you realize that I need

00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:36.500
to seek help and and try to sort out, you know,

00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.539
what's going on in my mind? Yeah. So I always

00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:43.000
talk about after dad died at 19, it was terrible.

00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:44.579
But all the aunties were like, you know, get

00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:47.680
over it. Stop crying. He's dead already. What

00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.220
do you want to do? You know, be strong for your

00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:52.019
mom. Like all of this kind of. And I realize

00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:56.259
a lot of relatives or older generation, but I'll

00:19:56.259 --> 00:20:00.099
talk about my Singaporean family, find grief

00:20:00.099 --> 00:20:03.680
uncomfortable and the display of grief uncomfortable.

00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:06.640
So they're not saying that to be mean to you,

00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:08.500
they're saying to you because they're like, please

00:20:08.500 --> 00:20:12.500
stop showing me these intense emotions. It is

00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:14.579
uncomfortable for me. But instead of saying,

00:20:15.099 --> 00:20:17.259
hey, I might not be the right person to talk

00:20:17.259 --> 00:20:20.079
to this, but I'll find you someone or let's their

00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.299
way is like, stop, stop, stop, stop showing it

00:20:22.299 --> 00:20:24.759
to me. So I understand it now, but at the time

00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:29.119
I I was kind of brainwashed in this filial piety

00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:32.079
to listen to anyone of authority, even if they

00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.539
knew nothing about mental health, to follow exactly

00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:37.500
what they said. This idea of obedience was a

00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:39.519
really big thing in my house about being obedient.

00:20:39.740 --> 00:20:41.880
My mum was really fearful of having like wild

00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:43.980
Australian children, which she ended up getting

00:20:43.980 --> 00:20:47.259
one anyway. If you're a mum listening, don't

00:20:47.259 --> 00:20:49.180
be too strict because it could just come out

00:20:49.180 --> 00:20:53.269
sideways. So I listened to them. And so I pushed

00:20:53.269 --> 00:20:54.970
all that grief inside me and then I went off

00:20:54.970 --> 00:20:57.890
to work around the world. And the grief just

00:20:57.890 --> 00:21:00.289
came out sideways. I talk about in the book,

00:21:00.509 --> 00:21:05.390
I was so angry, like the rage of being silenced,

00:21:05.450 --> 00:21:07.390
the rage of having my father taken away from

00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:09.789
me, the rage of some of the things that went

00:21:09.789 --> 00:21:12.410
on in that house, but also the wider family.

00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:15.109
Like it was how people spoke to each other, how

00:21:15.109 --> 00:21:17.069
people gossiped about each other, how people

00:21:17.069 --> 00:21:20.160
put each other down. Like I knew I had never

00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.160
experienced differently but when I went to live

00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.779
in Switzerland I realized what I had seen in

00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:27.740
American shows existed because I lived with three

00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:29.859
different families and no one talks about each

00:21:29.859 --> 00:21:33.359
other or puts each other down or shouts and I

00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.319
was like wow that's how I want to live the rest

00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:40.119
of my life. And we're there girls! We're here!

00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:42.720
I'm like literally sitting here in shock that

00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:47.279
like America had a great example. Great job America!

00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:50.559
Golden Girls, Family Madison, Elf! It was perfect!

00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:52.779
First of all, back in the golden era of American

00:21:52.779 --> 00:21:55.160
television which is unmatched and will never

00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.940
come again. But anyway, it's great to hear that

00:21:57.940 --> 00:21:59.900
we brought something good to the world. Exactly.

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.099
And then I was in Dubai and then mum had the

00:22:02.099 --> 00:22:05.730
big stroke. And I had decided like, okay, you

00:22:05.730 --> 00:22:08.190
know, you have to go deal with this. My mum had

00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:10.029
kind of told us in the time we lived off anything

00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:12.269
happens to mummy was always if anything happens

00:22:12.269 --> 00:22:14.089
to mummy, you come back if anything happens to

00:22:14.089 --> 00:22:18.930
bump. So it was it was programmed. It's sometimes

00:22:18.930 --> 00:22:21.089
shocking to me that I never even had an independent

00:22:21.089 --> 00:22:23.119
thought of like You're living the life of your

00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:25.539
dreams. Is this a reasonable request that you

00:22:25.539 --> 00:22:28.220
would give up your happiness and life for the

00:22:28.220 --> 00:22:29.920
generation that comes after you that would die

00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.200
before you? But in the Asian family system, you

00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.019
don't question that. That's not how that's done.

00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:40.180
And so I left Dubai and then the like I talk

00:22:40.180 --> 00:22:42.740
about in the book, the pot boiled over. So I

00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:47.559
realized that I was not equipped. for going back

00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:49.700
to the ground zero of my childhood trauma that

00:22:49.700 --> 00:22:51.839
I'd escaped from, that I was running away from.

00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:54.980
And all of that scar tissue from dad's loss,

00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.680
that unresolved rage, it just blew up. And that

00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:01.859
is the part where I'd come back to Singapore

00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:04.099
to work after taking care of my mum, cleaned

00:23:04.099 --> 00:23:06.779
up the hoarding in my mum's house. And then I'd

00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:08.819
come back to work at this radio station here

00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:11.240
in Singapore. And it was very similar to my family

00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.519
system environment. So... DJs were pitted against

00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:16.480
each other in the same way my sister and I pitted

00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.079
against each other. Like my therapist even said

00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:20.960
like you it's like your anxious attachment style

00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:23.420
will just walk yourself. Your trauma bond will

00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:26.440
walk yourself right back into a place where you

00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.759
can relive that in your nervous system. And so

00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.180
it was all the things. It was the the put downs,

00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:36.500
the gossiping, the meeting between the lines.

00:23:36.700 --> 00:23:39.460
So never that clear communication, always the

00:23:39.460 --> 00:23:41.400
bitching behind the back. So all of these things

00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:44.890
were I couldn't relive it anymore. It was untenable.

00:23:44.910 --> 00:23:47.170
And I called my cousin and my best friend one

00:23:47.170 --> 00:23:49.029
night and she was pregnant with my goddaughter.

00:23:49.470 --> 00:23:51.970
And I bawled down the phone to her and I just

00:23:51.970 --> 00:23:56.410
could not stop crying. And then at the end of

00:23:56.410 --> 00:23:58.970
it, I asked for advice. And I would do that routinely

00:23:58.970 --> 00:24:01.210
when I couldn't regulate my own emotions, I would

00:24:01.210 --> 00:24:03.329
call trusted friends and they would help me to

00:24:03.329 --> 00:24:06.069
regulate, but they weren't professionals. And

00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:09.210
Paula said to me, she goes, Moni, I love you,

00:24:09.210 --> 00:24:12.980
but maybe it's time. because I don't have all

00:24:12.980 --> 00:24:15.740
the answers to fully give to you. And I later

00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:18.619
on went back to her and told her, this was the

00:24:18.619 --> 00:24:21.460
best. I mean, it took 10 years, but I said to

00:24:21.460 --> 00:24:23.720
her, this is like the best advice you ever gave

00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:26.039
me and was given with such love. It wasn't in

00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.599
this like go to therapy. It was with such love

00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:30.960
and a relationship with which we have complete

00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.119
trust. And she said, yeah, I'm about to become

00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.410
a mom. So I'm trying to give better advice. That's

00:24:37.410 --> 00:24:39.250
lovely. I might not have kids, but kids have

00:24:39.250 --> 00:24:41.890
a very special place in my life. You know, they're,

00:24:42.109 --> 00:24:43.849
I mean, they just make friendships with my girlfriends,

00:24:43.869 --> 00:24:46.069
even more rich as we just have more girls to

00:24:46.069 --> 00:24:47.529
hang out with. Oh, there's a couple of boys in

00:24:47.529 --> 00:24:50.990
the mix, but most of the girls, but like they're

00:24:50.990 --> 00:24:52.410
a hard work. The boys are hard work. There's

00:24:52.410 --> 00:24:54.970
like a lot going on there. The girls are a bit

00:24:54.970 --> 00:24:56.849
easier. You know, you take them to Jin Tai Fung

00:24:56.849 --> 00:24:58.089
and give them a coloring book and they're just

00:24:58.089 --> 00:25:02.369
good. So that was the big story. And I hope,

00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:05.619
Everyone has a person, and I know that's not

00:25:05.619 --> 00:25:08.339
true because of the loneliness research I do,

00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:12.039
but I hope everyone has a person that they trust

00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:16.259
completely and they love unconditionally who

00:25:16.259 --> 00:25:18.500
can give them that advice and it land well for

00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:21.420
them. So how did you go from feeling disconnected

00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:27.140
in your personal life to making connection your

00:25:27.140 --> 00:25:31.559
life's work? Three things happened. Number one,

00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:35.650
I had been seeing that old media was becoming

00:25:35.650 --> 00:25:37.730
less and less relevant. That was really obvious

00:25:37.730 --> 00:25:43.289
to me. This was 2016. It was getting obvious

00:25:43.289 --> 00:25:45.990
to me, right? And so a lot of the reasons you

00:25:45.990 --> 00:25:47.829
go into the media is there are a lot of perks.

00:25:47.910 --> 00:25:50.410
It's fun. But there had been so much darkness

00:25:50.410 --> 00:25:53.130
that happened. I just... The fun didn't mean

00:25:53.130 --> 00:25:55.349
anything to me anymore. I wanted more. I knew

00:25:55.349 --> 00:25:57.869
I needed more. And then at the same time, mum,

00:25:57.990 --> 00:26:00.049
because the cognitive disease was losing her

00:26:00.049 --> 00:26:03.029
ability to remember her own memories. And the

00:26:03.029 --> 00:26:08.069
last big indicator was I went on air one night

00:26:08.069 --> 00:26:10.769
and I gave away tickets to a superhero movie

00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:13.450
and I asked people to voice note into the station.

00:26:13.490 --> 00:26:16.670
If you could have any superpower in the world,

00:26:16.990 --> 00:26:22.829
what would it be and why? And This young girl,

00:26:22.910 --> 00:26:25.849
her name was Mei Xuan, she voice noted in, I

00:26:25.849 --> 00:26:27.869
know it's not a special ability or anything,

00:26:27.950 --> 00:26:31.210
but I would really love to be able to connect

00:26:31.210 --> 00:26:34.190
with people one -on -one. It seems like everyone's

00:26:34.190 --> 00:26:37.049
so cold these days. That was the alarm. Wow.

00:26:37.430 --> 00:26:39.190
Because she was younger than me by about 10 years,

00:26:39.210 --> 00:26:42.349
I could tell by her voice. And I was like, there's

00:26:42.349 --> 00:26:43.829
something here. And so I started researching.

00:26:43.890 --> 00:26:46.130
I found a mentor who is a global keynote speaker.

00:26:46.750 --> 00:26:49.609
and I worked under him. He actually gave me the

00:26:49.609 --> 00:26:51.170
human connection topic because he thought I was

00:26:51.170 --> 00:26:54.829
a great connector. I think I'm a 100 times better

00:26:54.829 --> 00:26:56.930
connector now than what I was then. There was

00:26:56.930 --> 00:26:59.569
just so much stuff going on. To be a great connector,

00:26:59.569 --> 00:27:01.670
you really have to be others driven. And when

00:27:01.670 --> 00:27:03.549
you've got a lot going on with you, it's really

00:27:03.549 --> 00:27:05.210
difficult to be able to have that cup flowing

00:27:05.210 --> 00:27:07.730
over for other people. And certainly I'm at that

00:27:07.730 --> 00:27:10.710
place now, but at that time I wasn't. And I just

00:27:10.710 --> 00:27:13.009
started researching and then the research started

00:27:13.009 --> 00:27:15.089
to heal me because there are a lot of studies

00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:17.450
that were like, I'll give you a perfect example.

00:27:17.509 --> 00:27:21.130
There's a study by Dr. James Cohn at the Virginia

00:27:21.130 --> 00:27:23.750
University that talks about how high quality

00:27:23.750 --> 00:27:27.849
touch of a person that is a trusted connection

00:27:27.849 --> 00:27:33.029
has the ability to lower someone's stress response

00:27:33.029 --> 00:27:37.609
versus being held by a random caregiver or somebody

00:27:37.609 --> 00:27:40.130
where it's not a high quality relationship. And

00:27:40.130 --> 00:27:43.390
so there I was flying every 90 days. all of my

00:27:43.390 --> 00:27:45.509
annual leave at this radio station to lie on

00:27:45.509 --> 00:27:47.250
the floor of that nursing home next to my mom

00:27:47.250 --> 00:27:50.069
was feeling like, oh my gosh, is this worth it?

00:27:50.130 --> 00:27:51.910
Does she even realize I'm here? Does she appreciate

00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:54.410
this? And then to go, yes, she does, because

00:27:54.410 --> 00:27:57.849
that's your hand lowering her stress response,

00:27:58.369 --> 00:28:01.130
extending her lifespan. The hand of her carer

00:28:01.130 --> 00:28:03.130
does not give her the same effect. So you see

00:28:03.130 --> 00:28:06.950
how the research helped. Yes, the dopamine, it

00:28:06.950 --> 00:28:11.529
all helped. me. And so I think for a lot of people

00:28:11.529 --> 00:28:13.670
come to me and they want to be global keynote

00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:15.250
speakers and they think I live this lifestyle.

00:28:15.650 --> 00:28:18.430
They don't understand you need to do the research.

00:28:19.430 --> 00:28:22.829
Like you can't just write a keynote and make

00:28:22.829 --> 00:28:25.910
stuff up. Like the research is important. And

00:28:25.910 --> 00:28:28.630
those researchers then kept me company in a pandemic

00:28:28.630 --> 00:28:30.930
because I was ready to start the business and

00:28:30.930 --> 00:28:33.640
then the pandemic hit. And as a keynote speaker,

00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:35.420
travel is a huge part of your job because no

00:28:35.420 --> 00:28:37.940
conference can use you multiple years in a row.

00:28:38.140 --> 00:28:41.019
You're not like an emcee. So if you look at the

00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:43.240
entire world, yes, you make a great income for

00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:44.740
the whole year. But if you only speak in one

00:28:44.740 --> 00:28:47.700
market, you probably will not. And so there was

00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:50.779
no flying. And so I just became really well acquainted.

00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:53.960
I just did the study. And now I sit on the board

00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:55.960
in Washington, D .C. for the Foundation for Social

00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:58.660
Connection with people whose names were like

00:28:58.660 --> 00:29:01.200
my best friends alone in my apartment during

00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:04.279
the pandemic. And I got to meet them in person.

00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:06.299
And a couple of them, we really get along. We've

00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:09.240
got catch up calls and like that blows like you

00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:12.480
were in name in a footnote. Yeah. And now you

00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:14.220
endorse my book and we're friends. And when we're

00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:16.359
in New York at the Benjamin Franklin Awards and

00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:19.680
we go have ice cream together like it's The world,

00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:22.700
the universe is mind blowing. And this is why

00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:25.059
when I talk about that expansive mindset, why

00:29:25.059 --> 00:29:27.920
I'm so careful when I do go home. I don't want

00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:30.839
to be confronted by a closed mindset because

00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.779
I don't want that portal to close. Like the portal

00:29:34.779 --> 00:29:37.640
is now open. Let's not throw trash in the portal

00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:40.960
kids. That's right. Yeah. So for someone who

00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:43.160
thinks they might be lonely, but isn't a hundred

00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:45.519
percent sure because you know, they're living

00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:48.890
in a home with other family members. or they

00:29:48.890 --> 00:29:51.609
go to work every day and sit in an office space.

00:29:52.109 --> 00:29:55.490
What signs or symptoms can they look out for

00:29:55.490 --> 00:29:58.930
to make them understand that actually there may

00:29:58.930 --> 00:30:02.789
be some disconnection there? So a big one that

00:30:02.789 --> 00:30:06.490
I personally went through my whole entertainment

00:30:06.490 --> 00:30:10.769
career was being very quick to cut people off.

00:30:11.210 --> 00:30:15.779
So what you'll do is... You hold people to a

00:30:15.779 --> 00:30:18.180
higher standard than is reasonable. Your friend,

00:30:18.460 --> 00:30:22.660
her child vomited and she's late. You'll be like,

00:30:22.700 --> 00:30:24.279
in your mind, you'll be like, that's not a good

00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:26.980
friend. I'll mark that against her name. So holding

00:30:26.980 --> 00:30:29.220
people to a higher standard is reasonable. Less

00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:32.720
than good quality sleep. Wanting to be around

00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.140
people, but immediately then going, oh my God,

00:30:35.140 --> 00:30:36.960
this is so much. I want to withdraw and go home

00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:40.420
immediately. Oversharing. Really, really lonely

00:30:40.420 --> 00:30:43.339
people will overshare. This is something I have

00:30:43.339 --> 00:30:45.940
definitely noticed is a lot of times in our line

00:30:45.940 --> 00:30:48.259
of work, right? Someone comes to us for nutrition,

00:30:48.859 --> 00:30:51.500
fitness help, but it's not nutrition and fitness

00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:54.259
help. They really just want a captive audience

00:30:54.259 --> 00:30:57.079
for a completely different story. You know, that

00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:59.839
that is deeply personal, deeply psychological

00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:02.000
and probably not the right venue. And they really

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:03.339
want to be heard. This is why I stopped public

00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:06.859
speaking coaching, because it was a lot of this.

00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.559
I do believe that fighting your metaphorical

00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.779
voice is linked to things that happen in your

00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:15.059
childhood, but I'm not qualified for that. And

00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:16.940
too many people were coming to me for that. Yeah.

00:31:17.019 --> 00:31:19.880
So the oversharing really is like, you are just

00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:22.839
in this state of threat that you might not see

00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.259
someone again who you can talk to. So you are

00:31:26.259 --> 00:31:28.559
dumping that. And that feels awkward for the

00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:32.500
other person. So it repels the exact kind of

00:31:32.500 --> 00:31:34.380
connection you want to attract. Tells the other

00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:36.839
person's brain to be skeptical of you because

00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:38.890
You can't hold onto your own secrets. You're

00:31:38.890 --> 00:31:41.089
never gonna hold onto theirs. We are wired to

00:31:41.089 --> 00:31:43.069
be a bit skeptical, of course, for survival mechanism

00:31:43.069 --> 00:31:45.529
when we meet a new person. And I've definitely

00:31:45.529 --> 00:31:48.069
been through that. When I first moved back to

00:31:48.069 --> 00:31:50.849
Singapore in 2015, I remember being on a plane

00:31:50.849 --> 00:31:53.269
to a hen's night in Bali. It's the same hen's

00:31:53.269 --> 00:31:55.029
night that I write in the book that my cousin

00:31:55.029 --> 00:31:57.670
on that hen's night created a group chat to bitch

00:31:57.670 --> 00:32:00.150
about me. Some of the stuff you're just like,

00:32:00.250 --> 00:32:03.140
and me now being so empowered. I would never

00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:06.420
like, my boundaries now, I mean, but I had that

00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:09.299
trauma bond. So my bond said, if someone's family,

00:32:09.460 --> 00:32:14.700
you love them. No, no, honey, no. If you're cruel

00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:17.140
to me or one of you, full stop, you're out, that's

00:32:17.140 --> 00:32:20.809
it. So I was on this plane and I had met. a captive

00:32:20.809 --> 00:32:23.910
audience, a girl and her mom next to me. And

00:32:23.910 --> 00:32:25.809
I just was monologuing to her to the point the

00:32:25.809 --> 00:32:27.769
lady in the front turned around was like, we're

00:32:27.769 --> 00:32:30.170
trying to sleep and we know your whole life story.

00:32:30.589 --> 00:32:34.450
And it just broke my heart. It's so interesting

00:32:34.450 --> 00:32:37.410
now though, knowing the place that I'm at now,

00:32:37.690 --> 00:32:39.549
I would never speak to someone I didn't know

00:32:39.549 --> 00:32:42.349
like that. I would just be, we know so much more

00:32:42.349 --> 00:32:44.950
in the last 10 years and post pandemic about

00:32:44.950 --> 00:32:47.049
mental health, loneliness, all these things.

00:32:47.349 --> 00:32:49.819
Well, I would just never, be like that to someone.

00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.099
That could be the thing that triggers. I mean,

00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:53.859
that could be the thing. Completely. Then that

00:32:53.859 --> 00:32:56.039
person, you never know, you know, and I don't

00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:57.960
want to be the darkest dark here, but that could

00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:00.019
be the night that that person says, I mean, and

00:33:00.019 --> 00:33:01.859
then I went on that hence I was treated, hence

00:33:01.859 --> 00:33:04.680
it was treated terribly. Like, sometimes I think,

00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:08.059
thank goodness, I am as strong of a person as

00:33:08.059 --> 00:33:12.140
I am, and as hyper independent as I am. Because

00:33:12.140 --> 00:33:14.640
if you had counted all these things, and a lot

00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:15.779
of them you read in the book and a lot of them

00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:18.829
aren't. How on earth am I still like, what up?

00:33:18.869 --> 00:33:20.930
Yeah. Hello. Can we talk about hyper independence?

00:33:21.170 --> 00:33:23.970
Yeah. Whenever I think about loneliness. Okay,

00:33:24.069 --> 00:33:25.430
this is going to sound dark, but I'm going to

00:33:25.430 --> 00:33:28.190
bring it back. So whenever my husband and I have

00:33:28.190 --> 00:33:29.809
this chat, I think everyone who's partnered has

00:33:29.809 --> 00:33:31.869
this chat at some point who's going to die first,

00:33:32.250 --> 00:33:34.410
or, you know, speculating. And I'm always like,

00:33:34.410 --> 00:33:36.089
you're going to die first for a million reasons.

00:33:36.369 --> 00:33:38.730
I always tell them statistically, you know, women

00:33:38.730 --> 00:33:40.569
who have kids after 40, we live forever. It's

00:33:40.569 --> 00:33:42.069
like a whole thing. But I was like, so when you

00:33:42.069 --> 00:33:43.609
die, I was like, I'm not going to be married

00:33:43.609 --> 00:33:46.710
because I love being alone. I don't think I've

00:33:46.710 --> 00:33:49.970
ever felt lonely. Can I be honest with you? Unmarried

00:33:49.970 --> 00:33:52.230
women are statistically the happiest portion

00:33:52.230 --> 00:33:55.990
of the population. Good job us. But when people

00:33:55.990 --> 00:33:58.759
say, you know, I'm alone but not lonely. First

00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:03.720
of all, I'm never alone. So I Because I'm never

00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:07.259
alone, but I always say that with kids Give me

00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:09.119
like murder on the couch. Are you kidding? Can

00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.900
you imagine like hang your macrame? What is going

00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:14.480
on? Can you imagine entering your home and not

00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:16.739
hearing a cacophony of sounds, you know from

00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:19.039
every single angle? But anyway, but yeah, but

00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.159
so I'm like is there is it possible right if

00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:25.059
you have this kind of natural or learned hyperindependence?

00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.840
To not be lonely ever So firstly, hyper -independence

00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:34.059
is a maladaptation to trauma. So I think that's

00:34:34.059 --> 00:34:35.420
a little bit different. And people with like,

00:34:35.420 --> 00:34:36.860
I'm a little bit strange because I have an anxious

00:34:36.860 --> 00:34:38.699
attachment style, but I'm hyper -independent.

00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:41.460
But normally people with a dismissive avoidant

00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:42.940
type, they are more hyper -independent. They're

00:34:42.940 --> 00:34:44.199
like, I don't need people, blah, blah, blah.

00:34:44.380 --> 00:34:47.420
So no wonder I'm single. I must confuse. I defy

00:34:47.420 --> 00:34:51.139
the boxes. But what I was going to say to you

00:34:51.139 --> 00:34:54.199
is that knowing how to be in solitude, this is

00:34:54.199 --> 00:34:57.510
a big part of my second book, is an absolute

00:34:57.510 --> 00:35:00.849
essential life skill. Knowing how to like your

00:35:00.849 --> 00:35:04.389
own time, be in your own space is beautiful.

00:35:04.869 --> 00:35:07.769
And that's not wrong. And I will just reiterate,

00:35:08.190 --> 00:35:09.889
statistically unmarried women are the happiest

00:35:09.889 --> 00:35:13.610
in the population. Married men are the second

00:35:13.610 --> 00:35:16.829
happiest in the population. And married women...

00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:19.480
Probably not in our city or like Dubai with full

00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.480
-time help. With children, statistically the

00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:24.579
most unhappy section of the population. See,

00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:26.480
I thought you previously, sorry, I misheard you.

00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:28.300
I thought you said married women are the happiest.

00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.539
But unmarried women are the happiest. Married

00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:34.019
men, and then, yeah. And I get that in the conventional

00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:36.400
model. Because you're pouring. Oh, I'm so hungry.

00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.559
Oh my gosh, same. On recording days, I am the

00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:41.559
hungriest. GYG? Yeah, of course. What are you

00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:45.530
thinking? Should we try their new chicken rendang?

00:35:45.789 --> 00:35:48.510
Yeah, that's actually not a bad idea. It's their

00:35:48.510 --> 00:35:52.329
special SG60 launch Slow -cooked Guerrero marinated

00:35:52.329 --> 00:35:55.389
chicken in a rich rendang sauce with coconut

00:35:55.389 --> 00:35:59.389
lemongrass and over 10 aromatic spices Sounds

00:35:59.389 --> 00:36:05.349
incredible and it arrives so fast. Oh Wow, this

00:36:05.349 --> 00:36:08.230
is yum. This is so good. Oh my god, Amanda I

00:36:08.230 --> 00:36:10.309
wish our audience could try this too. Actually,

00:36:10.329 --> 00:36:13.010
why don't we make that happen? Yes. So here's

00:36:13.010 --> 00:36:16.869
the deal. We're going to give away 10 free chicken

00:36:16.869 --> 00:36:19.929
rendang, burritos or bowls. And all you need

00:36:19.929 --> 00:36:23.610
to do is one, jump on your favorite podcast streaming

00:36:23.610 --> 00:36:26.650
site and leave us a review. And then two, screenshot

00:36:26.650 --> 00:36:30.730
that review and send us a DM on Instagram at

00:36:30.730 --> 00:36:34.130
the forties formula. And that's it. It's first

00:36:34.130 --> 00:36:37.449
come first serve. So our first 10 DMS will receive

00:36:37.449 --> 00:36:39.929
their free food and make sure you get it in before

00:36:39.929 --> 00:36:42.889
4th of May. So get reviewing, get DMing, and

00:36:42.889 --> 00:36:45.329
get ready to enjoy some seriously healthy but

00:36:45.329 --> 00:36:47.730
fast food. And make sure you check out the limited

00:36:47.730 --> 00:36:51.050
time only Chicken Rendang at all GYG outlets,

00:36:51.150 --> 00:36:54.150
but only until May 4th. We live in the 1%, let's

00:36:54.150 --> 00:36:57.070
be honest. We don't live in what our friends

00:36:57.070 --> 00:37:00.369
in Australia, America, the UK live, okay? Auntie

00:37:00.369 --> 00:37:03.090
stays over at all the houses. So I'm there from

00:37:03.090 --> 00:37:08.610
the morning to, so I see the energy outlay, the

00:37:08.610 --> 00:37:12.500
cognitive load. the brain filled with what snacks

00:37:12.500 --> 00:37:15.420
can I make for Monday for the lunchbox? You know,

00:37:15.460 --> 00:37:17.219
no one's sitting around going, let's write our

00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:19.780
third, fourth book. Like people are, when the

00:37:19.780 --> 00:37:20.639
babies are young, when they're young. They're

00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.139
not even like, let me have my third, fourth cup

00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:26.559
of coffee. Right? Or like Simone, if they don't

00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:27.860
shower, I don't get to shower. And I was like,

00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:30.579
what do you mean? It's a shower. I got 30 products.

00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:32.860
I just gave you girls four of my 30 products.

00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:35.599
Like what do you, but that is the reality. And

00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:37.949
I think there's something about being friends

00:37:37.949 --> 00:37:40.369
with these amazing women in all these different

00:37:40.369 --> 00:37:42.489
countries are all doing differently. definitely

00:37:42.489 --> 00:37:45.510
makes me realize the value of the real estate

00:37:45.510 --> 00:37:48.170
of the alone time and to use it well so you will

00:37:48.170 --> 00:37:50.989
not see me drunk out in the club like I'm building

00:37:50.989 --> 00:37:53.150
and making something because my person is coming

00:37:53.150 --> 00:37:55.989
yeah and when that time comes we've not think

00:37:55.989 --> 00:37:59.369
what you're not macrame watching murder and live

00:37:59.369 --> 00:38:02.170
in your best life are you macrame I'm macrame

00:38:02.170 --> 00:38:05.989
you are so cool it calms my nervous system anything

00:38:05.989 --> 00:38:09.199
tactile helps to And the publishing process at

00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:11.239
this end of where I'm at is quite stressful.

00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:13.500
So the macrame helps. But back to this thing.

00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:15.500
So you're not hyper independent, honey. You're

00:38:15.500 --> 00:38:18.500
just someone who is well -rounded enough to know

00:38:18.500 --> 00:38:20.679
that time on your own is good. I'd be more worried

00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:22.639
if you're like 20 days later, you go and remarry.

00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:25.320
Which by the way, a lot of men in those murder

00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:27.619
shows I watch, they get divorced, boom, next

00:38:27.619 --> 00:38:31.710
wife. Hello, Chris Watts. What? So you see -

00:38:31.710 --> 00:38:34.110
I see that in real life though too. I don't want

00:38:34.110 --> 00:38:36.170
to go down that path of like widowers, but like

00:38:36.170 --> 00:38:38.869
I see it. A lot. And that's a lot of the time

00:38:38.869 --> 00:38:40.309
there's something called the widower's effect

00:38:40.309 --> 00:38:42.389
that a man will pass away shortly after a woman

00:38:42.389 --> 00:38:44.590
due to the fact that she ran the social connection

00:38:44.590 --> 00:38:47.769
calendar for the household. So without her and

00:38:47.769 --> 00:38:50.510
even knowing how to operate that orchestra, all

00:38:50.510 --> 00:38:53.070
of his social connection disappears. And then

00:38:53.070 --> 00:38:55.389
therefore he, yeah, because social connection

00:38:55.389 --> 00:38:58.210
does, loneliness spikes a stress response in

00:38:58.210 --> 00:39:00.900
our body. that can lead to cardiovascular disease.

00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:03.119
Most it's most common of all the illnesses, but

00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:06.239
lots of other life -shortening conditions. So

00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:09.360
your social connection should be factored in

00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.519
like any part of your health routine. It is one

00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:14.139
of the six pillars of lifestyle medicine, by

00:39:14.139 --> 00:39:16.820
the way, designated by the Society of Lifestyle

00:39:16.820 --> 00:39:20.199
Medicine. I was speaking with Dr. Robert Waldinger.

00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:23.599
That's his whole study of the lifespan of humans.

00:39:23.619 --> 00:39:26.699
Yes. The one thing that extends lifespan at Julian

00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:28.889
Hotland's dad. That's my bestie from from the

00:39:28.889 --> 00:39:31.329
foundation, she is the person who coined the

00:39:31.329 --> 00:39:34.349
stat that loneliness is more dangerous for your

00:39:34.349 --> 00:39:36.449
health than obesity and alcohol use disorder.

00:39:36.869 --> 00:39:40.230
So it's not a joke. And I am my own guinea pig.

00:39:40.349 --> 00:39:42.170
I know all of this. I went to a networking thing

00:39:42.170 --> 00:39:44.670
on the weekend because multiple of my friends

00:39:44.670 --> 00:39:47.010
are leaving Singapore. But now I met you two

00:39:47.010 --> 00:39:48.789
and you're in the car. We're gonna do dinner.

00:39:49.349 --> 00:39:50.949
And I'm that annoying person that doesn't just

00:39:50.949 --> 00:39:53.969
say it. I only say that to people I actually

00:39:53.969 --> 00:39:56.710
want to meet with and then I follow it up. Well,

00:39:56.710 --> 00:39:58.130
then you're going to have to see how much food

00:39:58.130 --> 00:40:04.590
I eat. Amanda is on an anabolic journey right

00:40:04.590 --> 00:40:07.769
now. So like I said, I will listen and eat and

00:40:07.769 --> 00:40:12.369
you talk. I'm an eater. I'm also an eater. I

00:40:12.369 --> 00:40:15.269
have to watch what I eat. I don't even think

00:40:15.269 --> 00:40:18.190
I have any non eater girlfriends. We all love

00:40:18.190 --> 00:40:21.889
to eat. I feel like that's maybe the seventh

00:40:21.889 --> 00:40:28.010
pillar of lifestyle. And when we eat in connection,

00:40:28.469 --> 00:40:31.150
we digest our food differently. So they studied

00:40:31.150 --> 00:40:33.550
people in Sardinia in one of the blue zones,

00:40:33.550 --> 00:40:35.769
and they were eating complex carbohydrates that

00:40:35.769 --> 00:40:37.510
in the rest of the world, things like pasta and

00:40:37.510 --> 00:40:41.670
bread, we're told are bad for us and cause all

00:40:41.670 --> 00:40:44.329
these issues. Well, in Sardinia, the way that

00:40:44.329 --> 00:40:48.949
they are firstly harvesting these grains, then

00:40:48.949 --> 00:40:51.550
cooking these grains communally as a family,

00:40:51.849 --> 00:40:54.889
and then eating communally. instead of in front

00:40:54.889 --> 00:40:57.409
of a laptop watching murder shows on their own,

00:40:57.590 --> 00:41:00.489
they're eating in a calm stress rate. The body

00:41:00.489 --> 00:41:02.190
digests the food differently because they're

00:41:02.190 --> 00:41:03.969
in connection. Do you think that social media

00:41:03.969 --> 00:41:06.030
is making us lonelier then? I'm obviously very

00:41:06.030 --> 00:41:10.130
active on socials. I think if you're a very young

00:41:10.130 --> 00:41:12.130
person and you didn't have analog childhoods

00:41:12.130 --> 00:41:15.429
like us and you were not able to draw boundaries,

00:41:15.929 --> 00:41:20.349
absolutely. I think every person who gets to

00:41:20.349 --> 00:41:22.929
see this should, in the book I talk about my

00:41:22.929 --> 00:41:24.650
social media boundaries. So I post in ghost,

00:41:24.849 --> 00:41:26.969
I do not scroll. Everyone's like, how do you

00:41:26.969 --> 00:41:30.110
get so much done? I was like, cause I don't scroll

00:41:30.110 --> 00:41:32.429
and I see all you guys watching my IG stories.

00:41:32.449 --> 00:41:35.070
So I know you scroll. I don't scroll, I post

00:41:35.070 --> 00:41:37.869
ghost. I reply the comments under the post to

00:41:37.869 --> 00:41:40.289
thank those people, but I probably don't have

00:41:40.289 --> 00:41:42.409
as much views or engagement as I should because

00:41:42.409 --> 00:41:45.050
I don't scroll. The algorithm wants me to do

00:41:45.050 --> 00:41:48.719
that. So - And you are not a rule follower. I'm

00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:54.699
not a real follower and I value my mental health

00:41:54.699 --> 00:41:57.539
too much after what I've been through to let

00:41:57.539 --> 00:42:01.400
myself go down a comparison trap or worse. What

00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:03.559
could be worse than you have goals and dreams

00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:05.659
of what you want to achieve? You're middle -aged

00:42:05.659 --> 00:42:11.000
and then you get comparisonitis. scrolling what

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:12.539
everyone else is already doing because they've

00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:14.360
already set it up. And then you look at your

00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.219
watch and the two hours you could have been using

00:42:16.219 --> 00:42:19.300
to do your business plan is now gone. And then

00:42:19.300 --> 00:42:21.800
you're in an anxiety spiral of what you're not

00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:24.099
doing. And I get a lot of DMs from women like

00:42:24.099 --> 00:42:26.820
that, like who are frustrated that they're not

00:42:26.820 --> 00:42:29.179
making progress. But I know because I see them

00:42:29.179 --> 00:42:31.579
watch the IG stories, what they're doing with

00:42:31.579 --> 00:42:35.400
their time. So boundaries and everyone should

00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:39.150
just have their own whatever makes them happy

00:42:39.150 --> 00:42:43.130
is what you should do with socials. Don't follow

00:42:43.130 --> 00:42:46.010
people that make you unhappy. Clean what that

00:42:46.010 --> 00:42:49.030
algorithm shows you. And when Dr. Pamela Rutledge

00:42:49.030 --> 00:42:52.489
and I was speaking to the kids at Harvard on,

00:42:52.630 --> 00:42:54.050
I mean, can you hear the statement that I just

00:42:54.050 --> 00:42:56.949
said? That's a manifesto's dream from someone

00:42:56.949 --> 00:43:00.670
who in 2017 was like put out to pasture in their

00:43:00.670 --> 00:43:05.190
radio career doing night shift, demoted, hating

00:43:05.190 --> 00:43:08.349
their life. and dreaming of that exact statement.

00:43:08.789 --> 00:43:13.389
That is, that's unbelievable even to me. So Pamela

00:43:13.389 --> 00:43:17.550
was saying to them, have these boundaries, social

00:43:17.550 --> 00:43:20.590
media is not the enemy. And to actually see,

00:43:21.210 --> 00:43:22.909
so there would be quite young Gen Z, I guess

00:43:22.909 --> 00:43:26.570
they're 19, 20. That was news to them. That worried

00:43:26.570 --> 00:43:29.480
me. Yeah. Because I've had, I realized they've

00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:31.539
had it their own life, their whole life. They

00:43:31.539 --> 00:43:34.780
don't think they're allowed to be analytical

00:43:34.780 --> 00:43:37.099
or critical of it. The way we used to watch TV

00:43:37.099 --> 00:43:39.539
and be like, well, the news is the news. Fox

00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:42.440
News is the news, babe. That's what's reality.

00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:44.539
And now, of course, we know that's not true at

00:43:44.539 --> 00:43:47.440
all. So it was remarkable to me that we had to

00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:49.480
even say, well, have you thought about journaling

00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:52.380
some boundaries? but that's the truth if you've

00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:54.659
always had it. I give talks to student athletes,

00:43:54.980 --> 00:43:57.340
young student athletes. And one of the bullet

00:43:57.340 --> 00:44:00.639
points I've now had to add on my slides is if

00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:03.400
you are looking at bodies that are different

00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:06.199
from yours and you don't like you, if you like

00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.320
yours less because of the bodies that you're

00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:10.619
looking at on social media. And again, for female

00:44:10.619 --> 00:44:12.179
athletes, this gets very relevant, right? Because

00:44:12.179 --> 00:44:14.559
they start to develop muscles and they, you know,

00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:16.719
pubescent athletes, right? Their bodies change,

00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:18.940
you know, whatever toward their sport. And I

00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:20.679
was like, if you're looking at bodies constantly

00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:23.440
that make you feel worse about your body, and

00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:25.039
then that's going to affect your performance

00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:27.780
in your sport because you don't like the body

00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:30.219
that you're seeing on that you see in real life

00:44:30.219 --> 00:44:32.539
versus the Internet. You have to go through and

00:44:32.539 --> 00:44:34.380
clear that out. And again, these girls have never

00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:36.800
heard it. These girls have never heard this before

00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:38.460
in their lives. I was saying you don't have to

00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:40.519
unfollow, just use the mute function. Yeah, just

00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:42.849
like. Oh, no, they're just accepting everything

00:44:42.849 --> 00:44:46.090
TikTok showed them. Oh, honey, no. No. And again,

00:44:46.250 --> 00:44:48.710
for every one body that you look at that doesn't

00:44:48.710 --> 00:44:50.289
look like yours, maybe look at one that does

00:44:50.289 --> 00:44:52.070
look like yours. Like maybe we can balance it

00:44:52.070 --> 00:44:56.190
out as well. Is it Morgan Marla? Yeah. The rugby

00:44:56.190 --> 00:44:58.570
player? Yes. Oh, my God. Alona Maher. That's

00:44:58.570 --> 00:45:00.289
it. Yes. And I probably said it wrong. I think

00:45:00.289 --> 00:45:04.059
it's Mare. Anyway, she's amazing. When she was

00:45:04.059 --> 00:45:05.739
like imposter syndrome, I've never had that.

00:45:05.739 --> 00:45:08.940
I was like, that's me. Like that's me when it

00:45:08.940 --> 00:45:12.239
comes to work. I have never, which is why it

00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:15.099
was also really isolating when I came to Singapore

00:45:15.099 --> 00:45:17.019
to be bullied. So I'd never really been bullied

00:45:17.019 --> 00:45:20.400
about my abilities before. And that was very

00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.679
lonely. So loneliness and low self -esteem. What

00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:27.260
would you say has been the most surprising thing

00:45:27.260 --> 00:45:31.559
that you've figured out or read about? experienced

00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:35.699
in your research about self connection or connections

00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:40.000
or loneliness? The biggest one is about and you

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:42.460
may have already seen this is about the five

00:45:42.460 --> 00:45:46.300
intimate connections around you. Right. And how

00:45:46.300 --> 00:45:49.579
huge that influence is on your performance. And

00:45:49.579 --> 00:45:53.300
I saw this very realistically in 2018. I had

00:45:53.300 --> 00:45:56.420
my my first big friendship break up that it was

00:45:56.420 --> 00:45:59.320
my choice. And I realized that when I was around

00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:01.829
these people, there was a lot of Again, replication

00:46:01.829 --> 00:46:04.309
of my childhood home, sitting around gossiping,

00:46:04.570 --> 00:46:07.030
talking about people. It was really unhealthy

00:46:07.030 --> 00:46:08.889
and it was wasting my time. And then I found

00:46:08.889 --> 00:46:10.750
out that this particular girl, and I worshiped

00:46:10.750 --> 00:46:14.750
her, again, anxious attachment style, had been

00:46:14.750 --> 00:46:16.670
saying stuff about me. So of course they were.

00:46:16.809 --> 00:46:18.449
They were, you know, it's so logical to me now.

00:46:18.449 --> 00:46:19.769
Like if you're hanging out with people that talk

00:46:19.769 --> 00:46:21.590
about people all the time, what do you think

00:46:21.590 --> 00:46:24.170
is happening when you're not there? And so I...

00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:26.780
cut that friendship off. How do you cut it off?

00:46:26.860 --> 00:46:28.739
Do you say to that person, I'm no longer your

00:46:28.739 --> 00:46:30.260
friend, or do you just go to - I'm a terrible

00:46:30.260 --> 00:46:33.159
non -confrontational Asian. I would not do this

00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:36.280
now, but this is me 2019, okay. It was a long

00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:38.340
time ago now. It was tough because I found out

00:46:38.340 --> 00:46:40.059
from her sister that she'd been saying things

00:46:40.059 --> 00:46:43.159
because, so obviously then if I was to disclose

00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:45.920
that, they might have a lifelong bust up. So

00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:48.699
I didn't say anything. It was her birthday. I

00:46:48.699 --> 00:46:51.300
dropped off a gift for her birthday at the, like

00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:54.309
of her condo, like the front thing. And I just

00:46:54.309 --> 00:46:57.050
made sure I was never, it was a wedding where

00:46:57.050 --> 00:47:00.130
we were at the same, but I just avoided and it

00:47:00.130 --> 00:47:02.090
became very clear. Actually the pandemic happened

00:47:02.090 --> 00:47:04.489
and made it really easy for me. But what I saw

00:47:04.489 --> 00:47:08.110
happened to my life when I cut this person. So

00:47:08.110 --> 00:47:10.489
if you have in your five intimate connections,

00:47:10.809 --> 00:47:12.369
so I've had people like that before, but they

00:47:12.369 --> 00:47:13.710
were on the periphery, but I'd never had anyone

00:47:13.710 --> 00:47:17.849
in the inner circle. You can pull out that thorn.

00:47:18.010 --> 00:47:21.070
It's unbelievable how my life changed. That means

00:47:21.070 --> 00:47:23.469
energetically, if anyone's a bit, we were watching

00:47:23.469 --> 00:47:26.349
this or listening to this. The secret hating

00:47:26.349 --> 00:47:29.070
from her and her husband was vibrationally kind

00:47:29.070 --> 00:47:30.650
of actually keeping me low even though I wasn't

00:47:30.650 --> 00:47:34.630
aware of it. Wow. So I'm really much more sensitive

00:47:34.630 --> 00:47:38.090
now when I meet women who I know are not happy

00:47:38.090 --> 00:47:40.230
for me, or I can see them watch all the stories

00:47:40.230 --> 00:47:41.769
and they don't like it and then they copy my

00:47:41.769 --> 00:47:46.860
content. I'm very aware, but because I have solved

00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:49.099
a lot of that anxious attachment style. It's

00:47:49.099 --> 00:47:51.860
like saying, I value me to the universe, that

00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:54.400
I don't do the puppy dog thing where I would

00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:57.360
try and convert them. You're never gonna convert

00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.019
someone who's your secret hater. Like that is

00:48:00.019 --> 00:48:03.039
illogical. You have macrame to do. Like, let's

00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:05.039
get back together. You have macrame and murder

00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:06.039
show and backing up. Yeah, macrame and murder

00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:09.099
show is to watch the dead lady. Anxious attachment

00:48:09.099 --> 00:48:10.820
style, me running after my mother's affection

00:48:10.820 --> 00:48:12.519
would have done that to any women who are kind

00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:14.960
of difficult because they... resemble the primary

00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:16.980
caregiver. So for anyone who doesn't know basic

00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:19.900
like childhood therapy here, you know, a lot

00:48:19.900 --> 00:48:22.360
of the way we connect with other people is influenced

00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:24.860
by the connection we had with our primary caregiver

00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:26.940
and whether our emotional needs were met or not

00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:29.639
met. And the reason I mentioned that is a lot

00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:30.960
of people pick up my book and they think it's

00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:33.380
about loneliness. And I was probably the first

00:48:33.380 --> 00:48:36.880
person in my group of people who talk on human

00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.619
connection to write a book where I gave a piece

00:48:39.619 --> 00:48:42.000
of myself in it to talk about how this shows

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.000
up to how we later make friends and how we maintain

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.760
friendships so I could see the toxicity I was

00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:52.260
self -creating because I took that paradigm as

00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:55.739
a given that that was a skeleton that I should

00:48:55.739 --> 00:48:58.239
live by and it's not at all a skeleton you have

00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:01.579
to live by but the work of breaking away that

00:49:01.579 --> 00:49:05.289
infrastructure of your emotional life is so difficult.

00:49:05.369 --> 00:49:07.429
Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. But it is work.

00:49:07.630 --> 00:49:10.130
It is work and I still constantly have to do

00:49:10.130 --> 00:49:12.530
it and my love life has been my, I have a dating

00:49:12.530 --> 00:49:16.309
coach now so all of 2025 we are attacking this.

00:49:16.409 --> 00:49:18.309
Last year I took a break from dating and I just

00:49:18.309 --> 00:49:21.449
read all the books on attachment style in romantic

00:49:21.449 --> 00:49:23.789
relationships you could imagine and this year

00:49:23.789 --> 00:49:26.650
we attack that. This is the last place for me

00:49:26.650 --> 00:49:29.489
that it really shows up in my life and it will

00:49:29.489 --> 00:49:31.369
and it will keep being managed forever. I feel

00:49:31.369 --> 00:49:33.110
like that's it. That's your fourth book. So we've

00:49:33.110 --> 00:49:35.110
got your real two books and then we've got the

00:49:35.110 --> 00:49:36.889
analog childhood. And now we've got the result

00:49:36.889 --> 00:49:38.929
of this date. Well, there's a book on AI companions

00:49:38.929 --> 00:49:40.630
and human connection that I want, but that could

00:49:40.630 --> 00:49:44.190
be the analog child. I wanted to call a book,

00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:46.070
you know, The Last Generation, because we are

00:49:46.070 --> 00:49:48.829
the last generation. And then the subtitle will

00:49:48.829 --> 00:49:51.429
have, you know, and my friends are like, oh,

00:49:51.489 --> 00:49:53.289
you should write a book on, you know, the dating

00:49:53.289 --> 00:49:56.349
stuff. And I'm like, I don't feel people want

00:49:56.349 --> 00:49:59.500
that message until you've. found the person.

00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:01.960
Cause then they will though. So that's why I'm

00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:05.820
confident where you're so bad ass where you learn

00:50:05.820 --> 00:50:07.280
everything. And then you're like, Oh my God,

00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:08.920
I don't need someone. And then you're like, I

00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:11.320
still, I don't need someone now. Um, I think

00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:15.199
that's half the problem. I don't need the coaches

00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:17.980
listening, but if you get to the point where,

00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:19.960
like I would be lying. I said, I still don't

00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:23.280
have moments where I want that, but I do, they

00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:26.269
get less every year. I do think It is like I

00:50:26.269 --> 00:50:29.969
watched Jane Fonda and I know for sure that she's

00:50:29.969 --> 00:50:31.650
definitely, that woman is that point where she's

00:50:31.650 --> 00:50:35.110
like, I really like, I don't miss that. I'm already

00:50:35.110 --> 00:50:37.730
at the point, sadly, and I think this comes across

00:50:37.730 --> 00:50:40.030
very strongly where I no longer crave someone

00:50:40.030 --> 00:50:42.650
to travel with and I no longer crave someone

00:50:42.650 --> 00:50:45.409
to be at home in the evenings with. And that

00:50:45.409 --> 00:50:48.309
was a big thing before I turned 40 that I would

00:50:48.309 --> 00:50:50.969
have that craving. Now when I travel, oh my gosh,

00:50:50.969 --> 00:50:55.170
I'm so tired and I'm Love a good hotel room with

00:50:55.170 --> 00:50:57.989
a bath. I'm so happy. No one is there in that

00:50:57.989 --> 00:51:07.949
space, but I'm like Some of my married girlfriends

00:51:07.949 --> 00:51:10.389
like one of the nurses at my face doctor she's

00:51:10.389 --> 00:51:12.489
like that's the tree And then you have other

00:51:12.489 --> 00:51:14.090
people who are like, oh, no, it's not like that

00:51:14.090 --> 00:51:15.769
when you meet the right person. And I was like,

00:51:15.809 --> 00:51:18.889
oh, you're so smug right now. I was like, I just

00:51:18.889 --> 00:51:22.309
met you. That's too smug. But I don't say that.

00:51:22.429 --> 00:51:26.010
I just feel that inside. But I think that it

00:51:26.010 --> 00:51:28.670
is very possible. When I watch Jane Fonder, I

00:51:28.670 --> 00:51:30.869
know she's at that point because I'm probably

00:51:30.869 --> 00:51:34.269
only five or six years away from where you're

00:51:34.269 --> 00:51:37.239
completely cool. You want what you want when

00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:39.260
you want it. That's part of the journey. I'm

00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:40.920
gonna watch this podcast back in two years and

00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:42.860
laugh at how wrong I was about everything I said.

00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:45.179
So we are coming to the end of the show now,

00:51:45.179 --> 00:51:47.039
but we do have one last question that we wanna

00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:49.500
ask you. And that's what's your forties formula,

00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:52.760
especially with being connected not only with

00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:55.320
yourself, but with others around you. You know

00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:57.599
you have to put the face mask on you first. And

00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:59.400
I always used to throw that out the window because

00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.039
I'm like, I only have to shop for my disabled

00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:05.000
mother. But I really, besides her and the dog,

00:52:05.449 --> 00:52:08.230
I'm not. And I was so wrong. I was so wrong.

00:52:08.329 --> 00:52:11.750
So I would give all of my energy power away to

00:52:11.750 --> 00:52:15.889
my career and my work. And no, you still have

00:52:15.889 --> 00:52:19.269
to put even if you're single, looking after your

00:52:19.269 --> 00:52:22.849
health, looking after your mind, your personal

00:52:22.849 --> 00:52:26.050
development, all of that into your 40s becomes

00:52:26.050 --> 00:52:30.210
paramount, absolutely paramount. And then the

00:52:30.210 --> 00:52:32.630
rest of it secondary, easier said than done.

00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:35.500
Base mask on first. Thank you so much Simone

00:52:35.500 --> 00:52:38.019
it has been an absolute pleasure having you here.

00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:41.460
Thanks for making time for us. Let's be real

00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:44.099
perimenopause is a game changer one day you're

00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:46.340
cruising along and the next your body puts a

00:52:46.340 --> 00:52:48.639
spanner in the works sometimes symptoms feel

00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:51.980
manageable others well let's just say we have

00:52:51.980 --> 00:52:53.960
to breathe through those and I'm not there quite

00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:56.670
yet. But the research shows that staying strong

00:52:56.670 --> 00:52:59.730
physically and mentally makes a world of difference.

00:53:00.050 --> 00:53:02.730
That's why Great created Menopause Mojo by Great

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00:53:26.840 --> 00:53:29.019
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00:53:29.019 --> 00:53:32.079
to feel great. Let's get moving with great. Guys,

00:53:32.260 --> 00:53:34.099
you know we love coffee and if you want to show

00:53:34.099 --> 00:53:35.760
us some love you know you can always get us one.

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Just visit BuyMeACoffee .com slash the 40s formula.

00:53:40.699 --> 00:53:44.199
Cheers! Before we go, please remember to hit

00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:46.719
subscribe and take a moment to support the 40s

00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:48.800
formula by leaving a review on your favorite

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We appreciate your time and support. Thank you

00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:15.320
for being part of this community and we'll be

00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:17.280
back next week for more empowering conversations

00:54:17.280 --> 00:55:02.159
with inspiring guests. Bye. Still going through

00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:05.880
it. By the way, how badass is the 40s? It's amazing.

00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:11.360
Why did no one tell me? Oh my gosh. I was like,

00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:14.260
you actually do. This is the counterpoint. It's

00:55:14.260 --> 00:55:16.579
amazing. We're really blessed here. We are. We

00:55:16.579 --> 00:55:18.159
are so lucky.