And I think, you know, something I want to talk to you about was the title of the book, right?
Bipolar Phoenix.
So the idea of rebuilding, re-emerging, rising up amid the ashes, right?
I think that's a very intentional phrase.
Yes, it is.
Do you think that living with bipolar makes you more resilient?
I am so shy about using that word because I don't feel resilient.
I feel like a failure.
I really do, and I do right now.
It's hard, resilience is to me a champion of someone who champions the moment, who attacks
the moment and wins.
And I, you know, I don't always feel that way.
I think when I look back and when other people, it's mostly coming from other people that
they say you're really resilient.
And I'm like, okay, but I'm pretty hard on myself about it.
So I know we didn't bring tissues in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Hey, hey, and welcome to the 40s Formula, your go-to place for insightful discussions
on navigating the 40s and thriving in this transformative decade.
We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda, two women that are passionate about exploring
the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.
Andrea Brankin is an American journalist and author of Bipolar Phoenix, her story of living
with bipolar disorder, as well as her personally recommended strategies for mental health management.
Andrea also writes broadly about life in Singapore for local publications, blogs and websites,
and in her spare time teaches yoga to both adults and children.
She has lived in Singapore since 2012, is happily married and has one daughter.
She is also a former field hockey and rugby player, but now prefers to play golf, practice
yoga and meditate in Singapore's beautiful natural environment.
Our guest today is someone that I actually know very well personally and professionally
from our many years of being Americans in Singapore together.
But today is the first time that we've really sat down to have kind of a more personal chat
about a different side of her life experience.
So living with bipolar disease.
So Andrea, welcome.
Hi, thanks a lot.
Thanks for having me and every day is World Mental Health Day.
October 10th usually, which is when my book came out was October 10th, 2020.
So yeah, every day I'm working on it.
So that's why we're here to have a real talk about this journey.
I bought your book.
So the book is called which I love, right?
It's called bipolar Phoenix, my F stuff life and how I fixed it.
I bought this a few years ago, obviously published and posted about it.
And it was the first time that I felt like I was really inside the brain of someone with
mental health struggles, right?
So obviously working in a clinical environment, I'm face to face with folks that have mental
health problems, right?
All the time.
But this book really helped me understand what is the living experience.
Why did you feel it was important to be this candid with this book?
Well, honestly, no one was there when I was diagnosed.
No book was there.
There was one book, but it was okay.
It was by a doctor.
She had a lot of credibility and her experience didn't reconcile with mine.
So basically I wanted to write the book that I wanted to read.
I wanted to read about 10 things that I could do to change my life and that's what's in
here.
Everything I did, I had a service dog.
I used yoga and meditation.
I tried everything from sound healing to oils.
I made sure I surrounded myself with positive people and family and that kind of thing.
So I felt like I was writing the book that needed to be out there that was more candid,
that was more descriptive, that helped people understand what bipolar is and how it can
affect you and how F taught my life got and why.
Because people will be like, oh, I knew that would happen, but I didn't understand why.
Well, that's what happens when people have mental illness and make bad decisions.
You don't see the world right and you take a lot of chances.
There's a lot of risky behavior with bipolar disorder.
So and I didn't always work out.
Can you just add to some people who may not know what bipolar is, could you just explain
in your own words, doesn't have to be like the medical terminology, but what is that
?
What it is.
Yeah, I pretty much know the psych book, what's it called?
The DSM.
So bipolar is a mood disorder, which throws people a little bit because you think depression
and anxiety or those moods know their mental health.
No, the mood disorder is mental health.
So the problem is you don't regulate your moods.
You go from very high to very low and with periods of normalcy.
And depending on whether you're bipolar one or two, that's kind of slicing and dicing
a little bit of Hollywood in there.
A lot of the Hollywood people are bipolar too.
It's like, no, you're bipolar one.
OK, and I'm like, OK, so bipolar one is a little more severe where you have great surreality
and you really blow it.
But you have more depressive episodes of bipolar too.
And that's honestly, I think I'm bipolar too.
I've never had a break of reality.
But suicide attempts and I think that's a really important thing to talk about is a
big part of all of bipolar.
One, two, it does not.
So a lot of times, and I'm 53.
So when I was diagnosed in 2000, early 2000, the only way they were really diagnosing it
was if you had a suicide attempt.
And that's how I got diagnosed.
It was like, oh, that's it.
Now, now we know because that was a real that was like number one suicide attempts.
Now they're catching it earlier.
Thank God.
Diagnosing it earlier.
Thank God for many of the young people who are struggling like I did in my 20s, not knowing
what was going on, not knowing how to handle it.
So I hope that describes the illness.
But when you said like, OK, so it's being diagnosed younger people are more in tune with
the signs other than suicidal ideation or suicide attempts.
What are some of these signs?
Like if you suspect you might have a bipolar child or teen or adult, what are some of the
signs?
I'll talk about the child thing first.
I don't believe in diagnosing children as bipolar.
They change so much and their brains are moving so fast to process at age nine, age 14, age
three, eight babies.
I it's just my opinion.
I'm not a medical doctor, but it's my opinion that children need a chance to develop and
get through their teenage years.
Teenage years for me, the red, there were red flags as a kid.
Like I didn't regulate emotion very well.
OK, I'm not saying everyone who doesn't regulate is bipolar or can be.
I am.
I was.
So that was my experience.
Teenager, I had depression and I didn't know what to do.
And it was the 80s and people were like, you know, yeah, hey, there's this new thing called
Prozac and it's making people want to do bad things.
And I'm like, no, it's supposed to help.
Can I please try it?
So I did go on that in college and had a little bit of trouble with eating disorders, but
that's all emotion regulation.
It wasn't a full lifetime thing for me.
It was me reaching out, wanting help, not getting it, not knowing where to go with it.
So young people.
And of course, we know about the prefrontal cortex development doesn't finish until 21,
25.
Why people can't rent cars and drink until they're 21 or whatever.
So I think personally, it starts in the 20s and that's normal.
And usually late 20s is when it starts to kick in.
But now that we're catching things in the early 20s, I've met more and more people over
time that have been younger and diagnosed in college.
And I mean, I feel sad that they're dealing with these challenges then, but at least they
can get medication and support.
I didn't have that.
I was just like, you know, people are like, she's a wild one.
And I'm like, yeah.
And what does support look like?
Like how does one, I mean, you go into this really vulnerable book.
How do you support someone from outside?
Right.
Meaning I'm what I'm seeing is the high highs and the low lows and the periods of normalcy.
How do I support someone as a support person?
Okay.
So one of the things I want to go back to your question of recognizing it.
So this is as a support person, when you recognize a mania is interesting because it's like a
lot of shopping, a lot of sex, a lot of drinking, maybe there's drugs involved, high risk behavior.
I did not have all those.
My thing was shopping and a little, and drinking was social for me, but definitely could be
put in that category.
So you see someone who's out of control.
Maybe they've lost their job or doing poorly in their job.
They're not sleeping.
I went through a stage, which is in my book, where I ate only sugar.
I thought nothing of this.
I was working at Kraft as a fitness instructor and I thought I could go to the store and
just buy whatever food I needed.
And the Kraft store was all the cookies that you couldn't get the flavors anywhere else.
So this made perfect sense to me.
So that doesn't make sense to a friend if you tell them.
So things like that.
And then the depressive, not getting out of bed, not getting to work, not getting work
done, not being able to make decisions.
That was a hard one for me.
I couldn't decide whether to turn left or right literally when the light changed on
the road.
I thought that's dangerous, you know, just feeling like you want to give up.
Just being flat.
I used to go through periods where I just couldn't wear clothes.
I couldn't wear nice clothes.
And I love clothes.
You know I love clothes, models clothes and all that.
So seeing things like that, seeing someone completely changed to someone they don't look
like, like wearing crappy clothes all the time or wearing black all the time or maybe
not dressing up the way they used to.
They go to a party and they're wearing brown and someone said to me, this is me by the
way.
Someone said, what?
You don't look, you okay?
You don't look like you're pizazzing self.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm not feeling very good.
So as a support person recognizing those signs.
Now it's not your job to do everything, but if you can approach them and say, hey, how
are you doing?
And then listen.
And if you need to nudge a little bit and say, hey, I was just wondering, feeling depressed
or do you feel like with some extra energy going on?
You seem a little rubbed up.
So my husband does and he sees it before anybody.
He's like one of those dogs that recognizes the seizure.
earthquake.
Yeah.
He's like, he's like, Andrea, I think you're getting really rubbed up.
And I'm like, no, I'm not.
Is there usually a trigger for either your high point or your low point?
Can someone spot something like you said your husband can?
Yeah.
But is there usually a trigger which might cause a low point?
100%.
Yeah, 100%.
So in my, in my life, things about money, a disappointment could be a trigger for a
negative episode.
Something exciting like I coach rugby and I get really pumped about it.
And my husband gets worried that it's too much.
That if we won a cup or we won a tournament that I'm too fired up about it.
So those are triggers.
You know, maybe go into a concert.
I have to be careful.
Really I do.
I'm not a big fan of Tom's Tom, but I went to see Travis Scott was my fan from the,
from the mosh pit.
He was hearing something.
No, no, no.
I'm pretty sure he's not allowed to.
No, I took my daughter to Brisbane to go to the show and I was very nervous about how
it was going to affect me in terms of the lighting and the sound.
And it was intense and I have to really, and I left, I let Georgia go with some teens,
great mom of the year to the mosh pit.
And so I didn't have to be there because I was like, Oh, I want to, I want to get in
the mosh.
I'm like 53.
You can't do that.
You've got to go, Georgia.
I gotta go.
You know, so I had to reduce my exposure as much as I could.
Yeah.
So there are definitely things that trigger up and down.
I'm never sure which is going to be which, but it usually works out that if it's a disappointment,
it's a depression.
And if it's something excitement, it's a, it's an option.
Yeah.
So I think overstimulation is an issue for me.
Yeah.
Well, you mentioned in your book, obviously that you give these amazing tools like specifically,
here are 10 things I did.
Right.
And one of those things is something that we've connected on so much is movement.
I'm moving your body.
Yeah.
You're your instructor yourself.
Can you talk about the role of movement in managing bipolar?
Yeah.
Particularly, and maybe actually with the mania as well, but particularly with the,
with the depressive side.
Yeah.
Well, I'm going through it right now.
Yeah.
I'm in a depressive state and it was funny because I went to the doctor and I sat there
like this and my husband did all the talking.
What's that's weird.
Yeah.
Right there.
And then I was like, I was telling you that I was having trouble getting things done and
wasn't meeting my workouts.
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And now back to the show.
So sometimes it's just walk across the room.
Like literally, can I get up and go upstairs and brush my teeth?
Like I say, what can I do?
And sometimes I'll make a list of what I can do.
And yesterday I took the dog for a longer walk.
I didn't just mail it in and take him out.
I bring him back in.
And I walked around the block like, I need this.
I need this.
I went to see my therapist.
My therapist does walk and talks.
So we go to the Botanic.
I asked for this and we go to the Botanic Gardens and it's beautiful and sounds great
and good environment.
And we walked and then we got thundered out, rained out.
But it was just getting there.
I said, you know, Martin, I didn't want to come.
And he's like, you're here.
If nothing else happens today, you did this.
So it's always about making yourself do one thing.
And it's really hard to say make yourself.
But you do have to dig deep and say, what matters?
What matters?
It matters that I get out of bed today.
There are days where I would just listen to Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings and just
stay in bed.
You know, I mean, I just can't deal with the world.
And when I look back on those days, I say, how did that happen?
What a waste, you know?
So it's just you just have to I make lists, challenge myself.
I have your app, which is great, the Trainerize app from Mandolin.
And I do the MyFitnessPal as much as I can.
I really like accountability.
It's very important to me having that appointment to go to, having this podcast to come and
talk about what's going on, mental health and what's going on.
Yeah.
And I think I love, by the way, you know, I practice cognitive behavioral coaching, right,
which at the end of the day, you need to do something, right?
Something needs to get done if you want to see a change.
Yeah.
And I love that in your lowest points, you are still able to carve out one thing, like
you have to do one thing.
Get out with the dog.
And I love that you do the additional accountability.
I'm going to write it on a piece of paper, get out with dog, we'll take box.
Yeah.
And then do it.
I put a lot on my phone, which is cool, which is how I do it now, actually.
But yesterday I found myself writing it down, which is old school.
Yeah, old school.
Whatever works.
And I think, you know, something I want to talk to you about is the title of the book.
Right.
Bipolar Phoenix.
So the idea of rebuilding, re-emerging, rising up amid the ashes.
Right.
I think that's a very intentional way.
Yes, it is.
Do you think that living with bipolar makes you more resilient?
I am so shy about using that word because I don't feel resilient.
I feel like, I feel like failure.
I really do.
And I do right now.
It's hard.
But I think that the title of the book is, to me, a champion of someone who champions
the moment, who attacks the moment and wins.
And I, you know, I don't always feel that way.
So I think when I look back and when other people, it's mostly coming from other people
that they say you're really resilient.
And I'm like, okay.
But I'm pretty hard on myself about it.
So I know we didn't bring tissues in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's okay.
So yeah, I do hear it's hard to be resilient.
I think that's a good point.
Yeah, that's okay.
I do hear it from other people more than myself.
I think more I think of myself as a surviving.
And that's a more natural word for me.
Thank you, honey.
Thanks.
I like that.
And thrive.
When I'm doing well, thrive.
And when I'm not doing well, survive.
You know, but Phoenix is definitely, it's a goal.
And I do crash and burn and rebuild and I do it in little ways.
And I do it in big ways.
And then the book is about the big way that they do it.
So yeah, I hear that.
And I think, you know, that's part of the struggle is being able to admit that it's
still a journey.
You know, you can't, your book is fixed it, but it's like meaning, meaning you've learned
how to manage it.
Yeah, not that you are no longer bipolar and you have found the solution.
And it does sound like that in the book.
So that was a really bad, like a really messed up part of my life that I really did fix.
And then I have had new challenges in the past 10 years, including menopause.
Yeah.
Paramanopause.
So when you said challenge, let's have a chat about hormones.
Yeah, it's a tough one.
You are a female living with bipolar.
Yeah.
I think it is crucial to note that some of the hormonal transitions that we go through
as women and women who have chosen to be moms are pretty severe for any of us.
For those of us who already potentially have some imbalances, holy moly, right?
So I'm thinking about pregnancy.
I'm thinking about postpartum and I'm thinking about menopause.
Would you be willing to talk us through your management of bipolar during those hormonally
turbulent times?
Girls, I nailed it.
So lucky.
Now I had really good, I was prepped.
I had a really good buildup to getting pregnant.
I was a fitness instructor.
I was training five hours a day.
I was, you know, did a little professional boxing before that I was playing rugby.
I was in a great physical place and I was helping other people as doing charity work,
working as journalists.
I mean, I was in a great, great place.
I just got married.
We're moving to Singapore.
I actually moved here pregnant, but I had a lot of practice in terms of dealing with
emotional and mood.
So I knew what to possibly expect.
And getting pregnant was not that actually for a 40 year old, not that hard.
I delivered when I was 41, but I got really lucky and I went down the medication to one
pill, one mood stabilizer.
It was enough and I had a really healthy pregnancy.
I didn't stress about eating.
I didn't exercise as much as I had been used to doing, but I had a really good pregnancy
and I managed it and I had a lot of support from my doctors here, my psychiatrist and
my gynecologist and eventually I had an endocrinologist, but definitely the gyno and the psychiatrist
were a very strong team for me and with my husband too.
So basically a team of good people supporting the pregnancy.
Always a team for me and that's in the book too.
Love it.
Yeah.
And then postpartum.
Postpartum, everyone was worried about me.
No, I was okay.
What I needed to do was after I didn't go right back on the medication, I went off the meds
because I was worried about breastfeeding, not because of the milk, but because of me
sleeping or not sleeping because I was afraid I wouldn't wake up for the baby.
It was not a great experiment.
So within four or five weeks we had to go back on the mood stabilizer to get me more
stabilized because I was staying up all night.
I was writing poetry, which I don't write and a lot of staying up all night doing stuff
and not sleeping at all.
So I had to go back on the meds.
So those are the kind of challenges that I had.
But once I got back on the meds, I didn't actually breastfeed very long.
I had a difficult time and the doctor was like, look, in your position, I don't want
to put you under pressure.
This experiment is over and we're going to top up with formula and that's it.
And I was like, yep, that's it.
I trust you.
And the psychiatrist was on board and we said, we're going to go with this and put me back
on the meds.
Yeah.
And you managed your own health.
I did.
I think that's a very important message.
Yeah.
I have to take control because I've experienced and taking control of it.
It wasn't a shock to me.
It wasn't surprising.
I was ready.
I had already had so much happen that I was ready.
And then how about that third people, Perry Menopause?
I was so angry.
I swear.
And I said, I wanted to make sure I mentioned this.
My anger was off the charts and I'm already bipolar with a high propensity for arguing
or getting fired up about stuff.
I'm a passionate person.
But this was like someone would get me mad and I couldn't stop.
I mean, I was calling on healers in Bali, like doing long distance healing and stuff.
I was just like sound healing and all the extra stuff that you can't.
I was already medicated.
So how was I going to manage this?
It was really, really, really, really hard.
I tried massage.
I tried sound healing.
I did oils.
It's in my pocket.
Oh, it fell out.
All right, never mind.
I was trying everything besides everything in addition to medication, because you can
only medicate so much.
But it was honestly the one thing that I added that was really important was meditation.
Number two, walking, walking, walk it off.
And I was walking like three hours, two hours.
But that's what I needed.
And I did what I needed, and I had to do that for myself.
And luckily, I was in a walking group with the American Women's Association.
I had friends that I would walk with.
I walked all during COVID.
But that was the main thing for me with the hormones was the anger.
Meditation.
Yeah, and meditation and movement were the solution for me.
And I think, you know, were you working with your endocrinologist?
Yeah, after.
So you were tracking your right to fall, if you will.
Yeah, so we knew where I was.
We knew where I was in the cycle.
I see her every four months.
I just had blood done.
So she is in concert with the psychiatrist.
And now I don't see my OB anymore because I'm, that ship is sailed.
But that's okay.
I got through it.
It's so important to, I think, empower yourself with the ability to accept help.
Right?
100%.
If I didn't, I wouldn't be here talking to you.
If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to be here.
Or maybe I would.
Seriously.
Yeah.
So I had to get help.
Yeah, that takes a huge amount of vulnerability and acceptance of living with this disease
that you're able to say, okay, I'm going to need help and I'm going to need it for the
foreseeable future.
Yeah.
And also a group of people like you got to have, I think, and it's in the book as well
as you got to have a tribe of people.
And when it comes to to perimenopause, get those spheres out and tip of the spear, your
mental health and your wellness, first and foremost, then you can talk about the gel
and the medication and the other things that you can do, which didn't exactly work for
me, but what did work was the tip of the spear and the spear and the tribe, which was the
support around me and my friends.
And that was huge.
Continues to be huge.
During sort of the experiences that you've had, was there any moment in time that made
you feel like I need help?
Or was it always somebody else who maybe said, oh, you need help?
Was there something in particular that caused you to feel like something needs to be done
here?
Always a mix, always a mix.
So since I married my husband, I've been blessed with that sixth fence from him where he can
see it, know it, and then try to convince me.
But in the end, it has to be me that says I need help.
I'm going to go in.
But it does happen.
Usually I'll maybe check with a friend and say, hey, that seemed like a little off.
And they'll be like, yeah, you've been pretty quiet on the chat lately or something like
that.
Or I noticed that you're not going out or that you're just wearing workout clothes all
the time, which is not a huge thing.
But no, no, I do.
But I mean, if I don't change at all in days, but I know because I lived for 20 years in
workout clothes.
I get it.
I guess what I mean is not showering and stuff like that.
But I do feel that it comes from myself.
I can dig deep in myself and say, I know something's wrong.
Like today I'm having a bad day.
So I know something's wrong.
But luckily I have another person.
But yes, I can do it myself.
And yes, I do do it myself.
And you have kids?
I have a 12 year old daughter.
A 12 year old daughter.
How has the experience been for her of you seeing what her mother goes through?
I would say she's going through puberty and what's that been like?
That makes me want to cry again.
Because no, don't be sorry.
This is dealing with a tween is difficult.
Dealing with her hormones is difficult.
Her dealing with me being bipolar can be really hard.
And how do you say sorry for that?
How do you say, honey, I'm sorry I'm bipolar?
Or how I'm sorry?
I feel maybe suicidal.
I mean, she knows.
So I think if I'm honest and I want to be totally honest that you can't hide it and
you can't glaze it over, it's there.
Whether it comes in arguments with my husband because I'm a little out of control or maybe
I had too many beers and got argumentative, which that's probably the thing that I worry
about the most.
And I know we want to talk about that.
It's hard and she doesn't have the tools herself to properly process it.
And we've had her in therapy before for COVID and stuff.
That was a difficult time for her.
But I don't know what how it's going to.
I don't know what she's going to say when she's 18 or 25.
I don't know if she's going to say my mother was horrible because she's bipolar or I don't
know.
So it's hard.
Yeah.
I don't know.
You can't hide it.
You know, I want her to read this book one day.
Yeah, because it ends with her.
The joy of her coming to us.
Yeah, I'm not afraid.
I'm not afraid for people to read the book.
There's people that would maybe a couple of people that would be upset.
I mean, I don't care.
I lived it.
It's my life.
You know, if you want to tell life, you want to tell your side.
If you were my ex boyfriend or something, which I'm never good with exes, you can write
your own book.
So you touched on the role of alcohol.
Right.
And this is one that I think is a real challenge for folks that are going through mental health
of all different kinds.
Right.
Because there is for many a propensity to self-medicate with alcohol.
Right.
Alcohol will take the pain away.
Alcohol will, you know, give me elevate your mood.
Correct.
Calm you down.
There's a lot of.
Can you talk about your personal journey with alcohol?
Yeah, it's still going.
I'm from a really social background and living in Chicago was party time.
Everyone left at work at five o'clock most of the time.
And maybe we had a show to go to or I played rugby.
So rugby had a lot of drinking.
There are friends of mine from a long time ago that said, I wish you would, you know,
dial it back.
You know, and and and just be more in control.
And I don't know.
Like there's times where I can drink 10 beers and nothing happens to me because I'm in an
elevated mood and I'm not calming down.
You know, that's a different chemistry than just a regular person who doesn't have mood
problems or there'll be a depression where I'll cry or argue or, you know, I don't know
what to say.
It's just like this guilt that comes over you going no doctor on the planet is going
to say, oh, you're bipolar.
You can have a couple of drinks.
No doctor ever going to say that.
I can't.
How do I sit there and say I do it?
I don't know.
It's just I like it and I'm having fun with my friends and when it's not OK, I try not
to do it.
And when I but there is there is a there is a moment where I understand people who have
alcohol dependence problems because I do want to feel better.
I do want to elevate my mood.
I do like how I feel after three or four glasses of wine.
I love it.
And there's times where that's fine.
But then there's times where it's not fine.
And that's what hurts my family.
And that's what hurts me.
And I'm not there yet.
I have I'm just not there to give it up completely.
I have a lifestyle that I'm enjoying and just sounds awful.
Doesn't it?
My brother is in recovery for many, many years and he's always talked to me about it.
He played rugby too.
So he was always around alcohol.
And he would just say, just try it and just go to a meeting and just listen.
And I'm like, I just can't really do that.
I've got enough problems, you know, but I'm creating a problem for myself.
I admit it.
And, you know, I just have to have to keep trying to control it.
And when I fuck it up, try to clean it up.
And that doesn't right.
And that doesn't if I don't stop, it doesn't stop.
So it's a really hard topic for me.
I'm still going to go have a beer this weekend and try to have fun with my friends and and
try to have we always seek normalcy, you know, with having a beer and being able to communicate
with other people over a glass of wine or whatever.
And I think that's an interesting point that you brought up.
Right.
So periods of mania, periods of depression and moments of normalcy.
And it does sound to me, you know, you can correct me from paraphrasing, paraphrasing
wrongly, but those periods of normalcy are what bipolar people really do want to kind
of extend.
Yeah.
Make sure that there's more of those more frequent.
That's right.
And that's the treatment.
So you want to have the medicine or the therapy in place or whatever you choose to do so you
can extend those periods and have less episodes.
And like, of course, to go back to the alcohol, that creates that could create an episode
or something bad happening can create episodes.
So you don't always have control, but of course, what we can control is what we drink in the
like water, how you move your body, how you approach your therapy, how you approach relationships
and how you can continue to give back to the world that you know, and do good things and
be grateful and things like that.
I'm assuming that routine that is really beneficial to you to be able to know what's coming.
And I guess it's the spontaneity of not knowing might cause periods of ups and downs.
So what would be a normal day for you without, you know, like without struggle?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, first of all, it's actually wake up in the morning.
I sleep terribly.
I've had very hard time sleeping.
So waking up is extremely hard for me.
And I would say being able to wake up and get out of bed, brush my teeth, take a shower.
Those are big things because when you're not feeling good, you don't care.
You don't.
That's when you also notice some function dissipates when there's less function that
you're having a problem.
So doing all those things, getting my getting hitting my nutrition, hitting my workouts,
maybe going to see someone maybe doing something positive for somebody, not getting into an
argument, having a good night out without any problems.
That would be a normal day, you know, getting up, getting dressed, you know.
And then let's say you've got your normal day plans and then friend messages you and
says, Oh, let's go out tonight.
Something's happening.
Is that is it something like that which might throw you off a little bit?
Or is that something that could still you can still incorporate?
I would enjoy that and say, Woo, let's go and put on something cool.
And it would be if I didn't want to go, that would be something that's not right.
Because I do like to go out with my friends and I love going out to cocktail bars and
like, you know, I'm a three cocktail person because it's too much on my stomach.
But beer and wine is a little different with rugby and going out to dinner.
But you know, hopefully not.
Hopefully it's not.
If it's a positive environment, it's a positive thing.
No, no arguing.
No people that suck.
You know, because sometimes if you're around negative people, I always hope I'm not one
of them.
That's kind of one of my guilt, guilty feelings over the years, toxicity of being bipolar.
But you know, I work really hard not to be.
So you feel the energy of other people.
I wish I didn't.
Yeah, then activity may affect.
Yeah, totally.
Like, yeah, I mean, there are certain people I don't want to be around.
Well, they always say, right, it's like, look at the five people that you're closest
to.
And you're not the only one.
You're the only one.
You're the only one, right, and you are the amalgam of those five energies.
So it's like if you want to have something different in your life or achieve something
different in your life, surround yourself with the people who support that.
And I believe that, yeah, get the spheres out.
Get the tribe out.
So one last question.
Well, actually, second last, okay, to use the important term second last.
Mental health issues in general still carry a lot of stigma.
And I feel even I feel even more so in Singapore, particularly like in traditional Singaporean
homes where it's like you don't talk about it, like you deal with it, maybe or not even
don't deal with it.
Well, just don't talk about it.
How do you suggest that women who are in situations where it's not safe or it's not well respected
to be open with their mental health struggles, how do they then find support?
You can't get it from their families.
Just you know, they have that in the book, go outside of your family and go to your friends,
go to a church group, go to a sporting team that you're involved with, go to maybe you
have HR at work that has a support system.
I would say look everywhere that you can outside of the family so you have someone to talk
to.
I have a really great family.
Sometimes being so far away, it's hard for them to get the context.
And I feel like a real burden sometimes.
And I also I understand the stigma, not from them, from me even.
I still have hard on myself.
You know, like I'm the toxic one and that's a terrible feeling.
But no, go outside the family.
Maybe you have a dog.
I had a dog really helped with my mental health.
It was psychiatric service dog and a rescue dog.
So I would say you do have to look outside of your circle of family.
And you never know if there's someone in the family that has the same things.
When my book came out, I got about four messages from my family, my extended family.
Yeah, same.
Me too.
This sounds like me.
That's so important, Andrea.
I think a lot of guests, it's like we're always talking about these experiences that are hard.
And obviously today has been hard for you and painful for you to share some of your
deepest thoughts.
But people need to hear that.
Because if we all keep talking reality under the rug, then we never actually get to have
the conversations that are tough.
You can't be afraid.
I may be suffering, but I'm not afraid.
And I think that's the thing that I'm out there leaving there with my spear and saying,
I'm going to fight it.
And struggle and let's do it together.
And if you need me, I'm here.
So let's spin it to a positive note, my dear.
You are past your 40s.
Yeah, I am.
You have lived this decade in its entirety and come out the other side.
What is your 40s formula?
So if you think back to this period of life, what is the most important formula for helping
women thrive during this time?
Okay.
I will lean towards the para menopause menopause and say, pay attention to your body.
You have family that are pulling you away.
Children, extended family issues.
You've got to look in the mirror every day and say, I'm number one.
That does not happen a lot.
And in your 40s, that's when you're getting pulled away and pulled to the teenagers and
the job.
And if you don't have a job, what's the pressure there?
And how do you support your husband?
I just really think that putting yourself as number one, that's, that would be my formula.
That's what I did.
You know, I drive, I did my best and I did struggle with the para menopause and menopause.
I did struggle with bipolar, but like you said, I came out on the other end and, and
I'll say it again for maybe the fourth time, like get your people together, get your girls
together.
You have talks about it, share, support each other.
Don't be afraid to share because when you share, you're helping someone else, even if
they never tell you.
That's right.
You know?
So I would say keep the tribe going and, and put yourself first.
That's amazing.
I think a lot of people do forget that they are also someone they need to look after.
Yes.
Your husband first, your kids first, your kids.
And I think putting some of that focus on you can really help, you know, through this
decade.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And Andrea, thank you so much for being here, being vulnerable with us, being willing to
share not only the highs, but the lows.
And we so appreciate that from you.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Welcome.
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That's the F-O-R-T-I-E-S formula.com.
This is Paul, our editor.
He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women
on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex.
So Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation?
Bipolar Phoenix.
It's quite a remarkable name, you know, having the image of rising off the ashes.
I think that's pretty amazing.
And I think that when it comes to mental health, there's a lot of stigmatization and misunderstandings.
But hey, Andrea, for what you did, the steps to write your own book and from your perspective
and your story, I think it's pretty remarkable.
So keep on fighting and know that you're loved no matter how you feel.
Just a quick side note, this is actually going to be my last season with the 40s Formula.
It's been a real privilege and honor to be able to edit the episodes, record the episodes
and to also learn quite a number of new things with you guys.
So it's been a nice, exciting journey.
I'll be going back to school, or rather I'm actually already back in school.
I'm currently doing a master's in music therapy.
So I'll see you guys around and hopefully, yeah, hopefully we get to chat.
So stay safe, stay healthy and peace out.
Guys, you know how much we love coffee.
And if you want to show us some love, you know you can get us one.
Just visit buymeacoffee.com slash the 40s Formula.
Cheers.
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Bye.
I was ready when I asked you.
Yes.
I was like you wouldn't have reached out if I didn't have time.
I think the book already exists.
Every day is World Mental Health Day.
For me.
I don't want to say that.
Say that out loud.
That's a great like every day is World Mental Health Day.