How old do you feel?
That's interesting. How do you feel? I mean for me? Yeah, probably 32
I'm gonna say probably in my 30s as well early 30s. I don't feel like I'm 40 gonna be 42 soon
I definitely yeah, I don't feel that at all. So yeah, I got three little kids at home. They keep me young
Hey, hey and welcome to the 40s formula
You're going to place for insightful discussions on navigating the 40s and thriving in this transformative decade
We're your hosts Jasmine and Amanda two women that are passionate about exploring the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead
Professor Andrea B. Meyer is a fellow of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians and a specialist in internal medicine and geriatrics
She has held leadership roles in geriatrics and aged care in both Europe and Australia
Before moving to Singapore to direct a leading longevity center focused on healthy aging
Her research centers on the mechanisms of aging and age-related diseases with the goal of bringing innovative diagnostic and interventions
Into clinical practice. She has published over 400 peer-reviewed articles and leads international studies in
geroscience
Professor Meyer co-founded Singapore's first evidence-based healthy longevity medicine clinic and is a key figure in the field
Serving as president and advisor for various health organizations
She is also a frequent speaker author and media contributor working to promote healthy aging globally
Today we are talking about a topic that's gaining a lot of attention not just here in Singapore, but also globally and that's longevity
Singapore is being recognized as a potential blue zone 2.0 and where people are not only living longer
But are also thriving well into their later years
Today we have professor Andrea Meyer who is going to be talking to us about healthy aging
Professor Meyer we often hear the terms lifespan and health span and when people talk about longevity
Can you start by explaining what the difference is between the two?
Sure. Thank you for having me by the way
Lifespan is the number of years somebody is alive. So that's our life expectancy in Singapore
That's at the moment 84 a little bit more than 84 years
So it's quite high
comparative to the to the world
But the health span is much much lower and the health span is the number of years
You are either feeling healthy
You don't have age-related diseases and you can really enjoy life to the full purpose
So it depends a little bit on the definition of health span
So at the moment the gap between health span and lifespan in Singapore is accounted for 11 years
but if you
Say, okay health span really stops when somebody has the first age-related disease
Then think about in the 50s and the 40s you have the first chronic disease then the span is much much broader
So it's really about how healthy are you and how long do you live?
So people talk about
Chronological aging versus biological aging. How would you define the two and is there a way to or what is the way to measure?
Your biological age. Yeah, so the chronologically age is very very easy
So but just look at your passport
But if you're looking at people in the 40s 50s or even in the in the 20s, then you see that they are looking differently
They're acting differently their behaviors are differently
But especially if you're looking at functions in the organs
They are different some somebody can age much much faster compared to the other
So and that really determines the biological age depends on the pace of aging how old you are biologically
So there can be a gap in a 40 year old being three years six years being younger and older
So there's a huge variation
We now know that the variation not only starts at the age of 60 or 70 or 80 when it's very obvious
But it starts already to to be seen at the age of 20
so we are aging very very
diverse and
That then determines our biological age and when you see the variation right? So what exact markers are we looking at in terms of?
Biological age there are there's not one marker of biological age because if you're looking at a
Group of individuals being 40 they are aging differently and then you are looking at one individual
Even that individual is aging quite differently if you're looking at different organ systems
We have a beautiful body and in our body we have lots of organs
We have lots of cells and all these cells and the organs are aging at different pace
What does it mean if?
You're 40 you are could be biologically 44
But a driver of that being 44 biologically or not 40 could be because of your heart aging or the brain aging or the muscle
Aging so the pace of aging in within our body can be quite different
That's also the reason why we have to measure all the organ systems within our body
Think about measuring the the strengths of muscles and grip strength how good you can stand out out of a chair
How good you are in reflecting and memorizing things?
So your cognition or your heart what your blood pressure for example is so we really have to have a whole body approach and
Know where the reason is why we are biologically older compared to our chronological age
Or if you are very positive as I am you're biologically younger. Yes exactly
so for me I
Started experiencing perimenopausal symptoms at age 36
which probably means that my biological age of my ovaries was obviously much older probably 10 years and
At that time I really did feel like I had fast-forwarded my life by 10 years
and I think that was really when I started thinking about longevity and and
Wanting to be around for my children who were very young at the time
Now are there any ways in which women who are you know going through this transitional period?
able to
Look at ways in which they can optimize their health and help optimize
Their vitality as they're aging through their 40s and beyond
Yeah, yeah, sure. So but we very often talk about
Menopause perimenopausal symptoms postmenopausal symptoms. I think very importantly that we are aging from
conception
Like meals also do that, but they don't have this rapid decline of of home and so that's more a steady decline
I'm not sure what's better by the way
If you have the rapid one swim and steady or a false cliff
But we are aging constantly
So I really want to draw the attention to all the the ages and all the the periods of life
We are we are going through so I think that's important because what holds for perimenopausal women and postmenopausal women
Holds also for much much earlier stages in life
Of course, we know that the estrogen levels for example, they they decline because our oversight
So how many X we have in our ovaria? They they are declining
So we now know what's happening and unfortunately in women there's one organ system really failing
Quite heavily at certain ages most of the times it's
In the in the middle of 45 to 55 years of age and then inducing
menopause
We have another organ and that's the cymus where we are producing lots of immune cells and we need that to be really reactive to
to for example
viruses and bacteria
So we really need that and that that cymus is failing much much much earlier
So we have already two organ systems failing. Of course, we are possibly not made to live
300 years on earth
But coming back to the ovaria. Yes. So the first thing I would I would say when somebody is 30 35
measure your your hormone levels because then you know where you are tracking and track them because then we can predict when
the failure of that that organ
Actually happens and then we can anticipate
So very often we think about perimenopausal symptoms on how it starts
No, it started already and then it fails and then we are seeing it much too late
So now we really have a thought process within the medical science where I'm coming from
Shouldn't we really track?
Women much much earlier and men much much earlier to see what the trajectory is to then
see when
Really for example hormone replacement therapy should be started and not just when you feel hey
Something is going on and you already have symptoms. It might be too late. And of course, it's not too late
We can we can still act but it might be even better to start much much earlier
When would you say would be a good time to start?
tracking and and seeing
Where you are in order to know, you know how to look after your trajectory
I don't want to cross any barriers, but I really think that we should track as soon as possible
We don't have much evidence with regards to tracking children
But we now for example know of the gusto study, which is a huge population study of children
who are followed from
even before birth their their mothers
Were followed we now know that tracking children even might have lots of information
How our life later like 80 years later might might look like so I think tracking is very important
And tracking that's what we do
When when a child is born even before a child is born, what do we do? We are looking at the gross
Yeah, we are looking at the development
We are looking for hey is that child really developing well and then at a certain time most of the times
Depends on the country where you are at the age of six or 13 and we are stopping tracking
So what we really should do and then we are tracking by the way again at the age of
40 50 60 when we are screening for cancer and high blood pressure and diabetes
But we are just neglecting the time period between
Stopping tracking and starting tracking again. So in my view we should track constantly and very important now
We have technology to do that. We use smartphones. We are using smart watches smart rings
We we can track even just our weight and see how we are tracking in terms of our health behaviors
so
Tracking always for everyone in my view if you use the data
Appropriately and if you know what that means the tracking what you do with it. Yeah, so so what?
What biomarkers should one be tracking and and what information should they be looking out for?
They're very easy everybody
Hopefully has a weighing a scale at home like track your weight
Like don't look at your clothes because the clothes industry is an apt
Where you live and especially in Asia don't
If your Western body in Asia you might be an XXL if your Western body in America you might be a triple X or small
To look at the clothing label
Yeah, but very often people say okay, that's fine
But but but put on your clothes from 30 years ago
Do you still fit but 20 years ago if you're 40 and it's it's quite difficult
So wait, but also track your blood pressure. It's very easy to track the blood pressure track your glucose
Track your motions track your feelings
So we can all track without having much technology around without investing much in terms of costs
So very often you get the agreement here, but we can't do that. Yeah, but that's not true
because even
How do you feel it?
Do you give eight or six out of ten is already tracking how you are doing and these kind of scales are all validated
In in embedded into questionnaires where we actually say hey, it's going well or not
Well, and it's it's very sensitive the the first tracking question. I would I would say how old do you feel?
That's interesting. How old do you feel? I mean for me?
Yeah, probably 32 32. Yeah, I'm gonna say probably in my 30s as well early 30s
I don't feel like I'm 40 gonna be 42 soon. I definitely yeah, I don't feel that at all
So yeah, I got three little kids at home. They keep me young
I'm not really 41
I think this is arguable
I think mine are actually aging me
It could go either way
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individuals who say that they are feeling three years younger compared to their chronological age
Just ask the question. How do you feel don't think about it? How do you feel?
People who say they are three years younger have 40 roughly 40% less likelihood to die in a in a period of six to ten years
Just from that qualitative measure
It's just how do you feel because looking into you know, how you if you say I'm younger, you know
What are you struggling with if people are saying I'm as old as I am
That's not much benefit people are saying I'm a year older. That's a very very bad sign
And when you do ask that question when you're actually interacting with patients, do you get a lot in that category where they're like I feel 55
And they're 40 sure sure but we also do that for research and it's very predictive for future outcomes
Yeah, I'm glad we buy so young
Talking about the age of the patient
I'm glad we both feel younger talking about you said measuring your weight and I guess weight correlates to diet
Is there any sort of specific recommendations that you have with regards to diet that can help with I guess healthy aging?
Yeah, first of all, there are lots of myths with regards to diet and there are lots of different diets
I think the only thing we know at this moment in time, which is quite clear that the Mediterranean diet is very very good
But if we are looking if we are unpacking it a little bit
We are eating every day most of the people eat every day. So we should all be experts in in what we eat
And if we are looking at food and food ingredients, we have nutritional factors in there, which we need micronutrients
Think about vitamins zinc. We all need the essential things including the essential amino acids, for example
So we have nutrients and nutrients we put together into a diet
For example, Mediterranean diet and this diet we are putting into dietary pattern and habits
Because even if you're eating a Mediterranean diet, you can do intermittent fasting
So you are not eating regularly in the morning or in the afternoon, dependent of what kind of pattern you have
And I think if we are looking at the nutrients, we just have to make sure that the quality of nutrients we are getting are super good
So really think about your vegetable fruit intake. Think about your fiber intake. Where do you get the fibers from?
And then think about the diet you have. There's nothing against sometimes a french fries
Or whatever you love to eat. But if you are making sure that you get the nutrition ingredients
And you are putting them together and you have color on your plate, that's very important. In portions that you are not growing
And then the patterns and how much and when is a different story
So this is what everybody should do. And then the question is how could you elevate that experience? So what do you need?
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Now back to the chat
So would I for example recommend to measure the vitamin D level or vitamin B level or whatever zinc levels?
There is no evidence that knowing these kind of levels might help in alterating the diet and what you need
But very importantly now we have much much more experience also with measuring the microbiome
So what is that? That all the viruses and bacteria and everything living nicely, hopefully in your gut
Hopefully harmoniously
And these two kilogram of just your friends, they really determine what you ate and maybe also should determine what you are going to eat
Because what you eat is really important for these gut microbiomes and how old you maybe feel and how much disease risk you have
So I think knowing what you eat is very important, make it colorful and if you want to elevate it, test yourself including the microbiome
So what you're saying is that keeping a majority like natural healthy unprocessed food and then allowing yourself the occasional treat
And so that you are then helping feed your gut microbiome and the gut microbiome is actually what is determining your risk for disease
I think very importantly we now know out of big cohort data, we have through so many data what a healthy diet is
There was one study I would like to mention from a consortium really looking at what could be the optimal diet
And they did it for different diet patterns and different groups of ethnicities because Chinese, Indian, Malay, they all have so different
Caucasian food is so, so different and really analyzing if a population would switch from one to the other
Just changing by the grams you're eating every day, think about you're changing from 50 gram of red meat to 0 gram of red meat
Or white meat or a little bit more legions or a little bit more fruit or vegetables
Then you can calculate how much that would mean, how much longer you would live, which is great
So that's an app being available, Food for Life being downloadable, everybody can say okay this is what I'm eating at this moment in time
If I would switch a little bit based on how old somebody is, where somebody lives and what the ethnicity is, how much likelihood do I have
That I would have 6 more years, 8 more years etc. Going from a normal culturally acceptable diet, so just a normal one to an optimal one
And that study actually showed that if somebody is 80 and would switch the diet from a normal diet to an optimal diet
Would even have an increase of life expectancy of 3 to 4 years
At the age of 60 it would be 8 to 10 years and at the age of 20 that would be 12 to 13 years
So back to your point of catching it earlier or making changes earlier will actually really extrapolate the effects of healthier aging over time
On the other hand side, I think it's never too late, so very often I hear you, I am 80, what can I change
Okay, but 3 more healthier life years, whoa, this is something
Because if you are thinking at the age of 80, the population average 4 or 5 more years, adding a couple of more
Matters a lot, the numerical impact may be smaller but the psychological impact of knowing you could just have one
Because isn't that what we all say as we approach and think about our own mortality, if only I had one more year, two more years
What if you could, even at that age just by making some of the changes you are describing, it really is powerful
And of course it depends on what kind of quality of life somebody already has and how somebody is also sticking to the diet
Because very importantly we very often talk about what we eat, I think very important is how do you eat, with whom do you eat
Because it's one of the social moments in our lives, because very often we say do we do this together, no we always plan
But what we do together is eating, so I would say have that social connectivity and contact
And then ask yourself what should we eat together to be healthier for longer together
Oh I love that, I think that's a really good way of looking at it
Very blue zone
Yeah, exactly that
So physical activity is obviously another element that is important when it comes to longevity, healthy aging
What would you say are the most beneficial forms of exercise or movement for women who are in their 40s or even obviously earlier
What should we be focusing on
If we are looking at physical performances what we need is strength, we need endurance and we need balance
Very often the last one is forgotten, we have to keep ourselves upright
Because you can be very strong and you can have lots of endurance but if you are missing the balance it's not good
So training the balance from very early life is super important and not being trained heavily
So strength super important, we have saccopenia which occurs very often at the age of 60, 70
Onwards one third of the population is suffering from it, so saccopenia is nothing else and the low muscle muscle muscle strength
How does it occur, it's the aging process and very importantly immobilization, so we are not moving
So immobilization is not meaning okay I put you on the bed and you're not allowed to move
But having so much sitting time and not moving, not getting the steps
So saccopenia is really importantly being associated with just the bed lifestyle
But biological factors that we are really aging are also contributing to that
To avoid that what can you do, you need strength
So heavy lifting every day is important, so if you go and do your groceries do not get a cut but just heavy lifting
Why do you have to go to the gym, like it's fine to go to the gym because you really get the strength
But we can also include that into our daily life
I think endurance is also very important, I'm not sure if you know your fear to max
Don't need to know it but just climb 10 stairs and you will see how exhausting that is
And if you're faster then it's better, so just try it
Very often we are taking the lift, I also did that while coming to the studio, don't do it, just go and walk
I think that's important and do it
Very often here also, I don't like the treadmill, I don't like the biking, you don't have to do it, just avoid the lift
The third thing is the balance, trial it yourself
Stand up first, don't do it now, but imagine standing up, closing the eyes, the feet next to each other
And just standing there, that's very easy
And now do it on one leg, closing your eyes and just standing and standing
And now imagine as a woman in the 40s, put on your high heels
Yes, standing, closing the eyes, one leg and stand
If you can do it, your balance is good
How many heels? How many do we need to do it for? Because I think I'm going to test this later
What would be a good amount of time?
You should be able to do it at least 3 minutes, if you do 3 minutes you cannot do it longer
But then also the strength component comes in because you have to really work lots with your muscles to keep yourself upright
Even that balance test is already a muscle strength training
It's funny, I'm a devotee of Bikram yoga, I'm not sure if you're familiar with that style of yoga
But long story short, what you just described is literally the progression of the poses
So you stand toes and heels together, you stand on one leg and then you stand on that same leg with the toe
It's exactly that progression and that form of yoga is, not as much research as would make it validated
But there's some research that suggests that that particular style of yoga is really really helpful for older folks especially
To be clear, it's not so that I promote to wear high heels
This is the imaginary high heel of strength and balance guys, this is not your actual
Damn it, I was about to go out and be like I need a new pair of heels for my longevity
So there's been a lot of talk about supplements, anti-aging supplements
There's NMN, NR, I've heard about Urolithin A which is obviously a type of post-biotic
What are your thoughts on these and do you recommend any of them?
We do lots of research, I'm working at the National University of Singapore so I do lots of research
Actually testing of supplements work
Supplements can be quite crucial to alternate the aging process so I think they are very potent
They can be very very very good agents
However, what we don't know yet, who should take them and which ones are the most appropriate ones
If you are thinking about the evolution of aging research to really understand why we age
That we can now try to intervene with the aging process
Supplements are around for I think three decades, think about multivitamins and multiminerals
But the more specific ones really antagonizing the aging process
Therefore maybe 10 years like resveratrol, don't take resveratrol by the way
I was going to go drink some more red wine
No, what you can actually see and buy online or you see in a store
So there's lots to uncover here because supplements are ingredients most of the times which we can find already in food
Think about a menu mentioned, so nicotinamide mononucleotide and its precursors
You can find it for example in cucumber or lots of food
So most of these active ingredients are just being put into a pill
And we find them in food because you should eat huge amount of it to get actually the level you would need
So the question is how much do you need and when do you need it and who needs it
And when should you actually stop
And we are at the very very early stages to understand actually the use of supplements
I will give you an example
Who is taking a multivitamin in a mineral pill?
Many people, roughly 50% of the Singaporeans take supplements and very often it's a multivitamin or mineral pill
Should we take them?
So just a year ago the first very good study was published showcasing that only individuals in the 70s
Who have already cognitive complaints might have a positive benefit of multivitamin in mineral pills
We don't know if the rest needs it with a beneficial outcome
Because normally if you are in your 30s, 40s, 50s, if you are eating properly
So coming back to this colorful food plate should be sufficient
And even it might do harm
There is now a study showcasing that if you are looking at individuals who are starting with multivitamin in mineral pills
They have a higher mortality rate than the first years
So they are dying earlier compared to the ones who do not take it
This is all not the best amount of evidence because it's not randomized
So we do not know what kind of factors there are
But what I want to say is we only know in a tiny amount of individuals that it actually makes sense to take it every day
Sometimes twice a day and especially also to put your money on it
So why would you?
So we are now doing a study testing multivitamin in mineral pills in 40 to 60 year olds who are biologically older compared to their chronological age
Really showcasing, okay, does it make sense?
And what kind of vitamin level should you actually reach to say, now I am optimal and I cannot reach that with food
So now I am just talking about normal pills we already are used for three decades to actually to buy over the counter
If you are now talking about supplements which are anti-aging and you already mentioned your Lysine and MN or alpha-ketoglutarate, etc.
Sperm and Invisitin, there are so many
We now translate the knowledge we have from animal models very often we see in newspapers
If you are taking this, you will live 30% longer
But this is in mice and this is in flies, this is not in humans
So we had the early stages to do studies in humans to actually see if it works and in whom it works
So I would not recommend to anybody to just go out there to the internet or going into a store and buy something
Because you do not know if it is for you
There is another point I would like to make, we just tested supplements on their quality
So what I did, I started two years ago, I bought lots of supplements and MN, Uralysine
And I brought them to a lab and I said test if actually the active ingredient MN and Uralysine is inside
What did we find? One third of the supplements had the amount inside, two thirds not
One third had nothing inside
Which means it is not only is this supplement for you, but also now the question
What, if it is for you, should you buy?
So my advice really is because these can be so potent molecules, they can really interfere in how you feel
Leave that to a healthcare professional and their health longevity medicine kicks in
So the new speciality to really treat aging as a disease, wanting to optimize the body
That you are feeling better, you have more likelihood to live longer, hopefully you are also happier
Happiness is difficult to achieve sometimes
But at least your body is functioning better and then use these kind of potent molecules
In the right dosage, the right timing and with the right measurement to actually test if it helps
So to hear you clearly, don't just go throwing your money at supplements, throw your money at knowing your numbers properly
And then if you need supplements, but it may be a simple solution as just directing your diet toward specific foods
So in fact you can get a lot more value from actually knowing yourself rather than just kind of shot in the dark supplements at the local shop
Absolutely. What would you say are the three key lifestyle habits that one should focus on
If they are unable to spend money on getting tested, supplements if needed
What could people do in a, I guess, something that they could do practically at home without having to really sort of think about it too much
What are the freebies?
I think we already mentioned them. Track yourself, make a story out of yourself
So measure your weight, measure your happiness, measure when you are reacting to what
I think if you want to invest money into something, buy a tracker
It can be just a tracker of the number of steps which is very cheap
But if, yeah even less
But if you have a little bit more money, invest in a smart device
Most of the times we have smart phones, they can be connected now to the smart devices
Rings, watches, etc. So it's so important to know who you are
And starting with that before doing any interventions, already knowing why are you grumpy at this moment in time
So sometimes I ask my husband, they say maybe you didn't sleep well
And then having this number and actually seeing it while alternating a little bit what you do in the evening
Having a better sleep quality not only makes him happy but also me happy, makes the environment happy
And it's not that my husband sleeps not well, but it's about knowing what's going on
Even then if you would like to invest a little bit more, like diagnosing or testing what glucose levels are doing
Especially if we are looking at food habits
So we now have technology like continuous glucose measuring systems
We have the technologies measuring our microbiome
So if you really want to go into that deeper level, do it
Knowing what, for some people don't like it, some people like it, but knowing what your genome is
What kind of book, what kind of letters do you have inside of yourselves
So what is your potential and how do you use it
I think that's hugely nice
And that knowing yourself, tracking yourself, I would say is much much more important
Than starting just blindly whatever intervention
So everything is individualized depending on the kind of person you are
So if you're not sleeping well then that is what you should be focusing on
If you're not eating well then that is what you should be focusing on
Yeah, but you have to understand maybe that you are not eating well is the reason that you are not sleeping well
So very often that happens
So a big meal at night might likely be leading to not much deep sleep and in rep sleep later at night
So of having this one drink because you socialize that, that's fine, all good
But know what the consequence is, so that's most important
And you mentioned it, it's a snowball effect, right
So then okay I didn't sleep well because of my glass of alcohol, then I wake up
I'm less likely to exercise because I didn't sleep well last night
And then I didn't exercise and then you throw in the towel and you start making unhealthy choices
It's a snowball effect and I think you're absolutely right
That if you can identify all the weaknesses in your own pattern
It's so much more powerful than like you said just trying to figure out what vitamin you might need
Let's turn it around, knowing all the strengths in yourself
Absolutely, and building on those strengths
Yes
Professor Meyer, it's been amazing having you here and just hearing about what you're doing and how we can optimize ourselves
But before we finish up for today, we do have one question that we tend to ask all of our guests
And that is what's your 40s formula?
What piece of advice or knowledge would you like to share to our listeners on ways in which they can optimize their 40s?
Write your own book and your own story
I think while enjoying doing that, be mindful of your surrounding, still making friends
I think in the 40s, it's in every stage of life
It's a special life really as a woman, so not excluding the men in the 40s
Really knowing what your human levels are, tracking yourself and being aware and be kind of yourself
Being kind, I think that's key, isn't it?
That is a key one and I think a lot of women forget that in their 40s
That while we're trying to optimize and longevity and do our best, also be kind to yourself in the process
Thank you so much, Dr. Andrea, it's been wonderful having you here
Thank you
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This is Paul, our editor
He's a 25-year-old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex
So Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation?
So, longevity? Well, this pretty much a 26-year-old guy is not something that I would consider or think
But for me it's more or less YOLO every day, eating and drinking whatever I want and exercising whenever I need to
But of course I do recognise the importance of healthy living, especially in your 40s
And if you're looking to live till much older, just make sure you eat and drink healthily and I'll see you guys in the next one. Peace!
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Thank you so much, that was wonderful
9.59, Professor Mike
I told you 10 and we got you at 9.59
There was so much more I wanted to ask but I thought, right, nope, need to
And what you delivered was really, really helpful, I think it's going to be so accessible for the women that are listening
And what they need to hear, right, which is not everything has to be super expensive and super into
It's like just take those first few steps and start employing that and build on the good and make friends
Amazing, well thank you so much