One of the ones I actually often ask my clients as well is,
I was like, if you don't have time, why don't you show me your screen time?
Because I'm always pulling out steps counts in consultations, right?
I'm always like, they're like, I get enough steps.
I was like, pull it up right now. Apple health right now.
Let's look at one month, six months. Same thing.
I love that. Pull up your screen time.
Oh yeah. My husband always said, but I was working.
Hey, hey, and welcome to the 40s formula.
You're going to place for insightful discussions on navigating the 40s
and thriving in this transformative decade. We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda,
two women that are passionate about exploring the challenges and adventures
that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.
Charlie Thakrar is a personal trainer and nutritionist and co-founder of Singapore
based boutique fitness and nutrition. She is a graduate of functional medicine
and clinical practice with a postgraduate diploma in nutrition from middle sex
university. Her unique combination of education and real life experience helps
her show women how nutrition and strength training can be used as tools to optimize
health and performance. She has received training from some of the industry's top
experts, which informs her evidence-based approach to training and guides her clients
to lifelong transformation. So we have had all sorts of guests here on the 40s formula,
talking about all aspects of health and fitness and every angle.
But what we have been hearing from our listeners loud and clear is that they want to know
more about two specific aspects, weight loss and managing weight loss around menopause
and perimenopause. So enter Charlie Thakrar, the expert on both of these things.
Welcome so much, Charlie. We're so glad you're here.
Thank you so much for having me.
I love your tagline from your Instagram, right? Real results delivered by real women.
You and your partner, Sarah, work super hard to transform women's bodies every day.
But do you help them work on their mindset since that's what's really what keeps them
in the game long term? Yeah. Look, mindset is a big thing because
changing, you know, body exercising, these things, there's a goal. It's temporary.
When we're working with clients, one of the biggest things that during that consultation
program for me is I really want to know their why. What is your why? Because it's more intrinsic.
Motivation and things like that is going, it's not going to last. It's there for a few weeks.
We're very eager to make all of that start. But then what happens when the motivation
stops or when you've reached that first small goal, then what happens?
So we always want to tap into each of our clients and say, look, what fires your belly?
What is your long term goal? It's about what really internally motivates you. So, for example,
for me, somebody might say, why do I train or why do I eat the way it is? Aesthetics is so
superficial. That's one thing. But I'm training for my old woman body. And I'm thinking, what is
my why? My why is I can visualize in 10, 20 years. I'm going to be a grandmother. It's going to happen.
And I want to be really strong. And I want to be able to be with my grandkids or, you know,
go for long hikes with my husband when we're both retired. This is my why. My why is not so much,
you know, just about look in a certain way. I want to prevent heart disease or diabetes. This is my
why. So when it comes to certain, you know, our clients, we want to really find out what is your
intrinsic factors. Yeah, because everyone's like, of course, the vanity, the aesthetics,
that's that's what drives us all in the first place. Let's be honest, right? I don't think
there's a woman out there that would say exercise is completely started as completely independent
of aesthetic goals. Right. I think at the beginning, that is very common. And again,
that's just being a young woman. Right. The focus from society is on how you look. So,
you know, you internalize that. But until you find that why, like what you said in your initial
consultation with clients, I think it will never stick. Absolutely. You know, it's a long term
game doesn't stick. Yeah, same happened with me. So for years, I was on this like yo yo dieting,
you know, losing a bit of weight, getting weight, losing a bit of weight, getting weight. It was
just constant. And it was always like, I just want to lose, I don't know, five kilos, whatever it was.
But it was when I started going through perimenopause really early, I was told I had
premature ovarian failure. So at 36, I started experiencing perimenopausal symptoms. And then I
had a dream that night when I actually found out. And it was that I'd basically fast forwarded my
life by 10 years. And I just thought, shit, things have got to change now. And it was when I stopped
dieting to lose weight, and I started eating right exercising because I wanted to be strong. I wanted
to be there for my boys. Did things start changing? And I think that was my, you know, my way,
my deeper meaning for doing what I do. Yeah, because then it's sustainable, it becomes a part
of your lifestyle, and then it's a habit. Yes. Right. So we got to keep stacking on those habits
every time. Well, it's something you just mentioned is something that I wanted to ask Charlie about,
which was this idea of nourishment, right, rather than dieting. Yeah. So the idea that
food isn't just about controlling your waistline and being smaller and losing weight, it's actually
to increase this is your words, increase your capacity to flourish, which I could not love that
phrasing more. How do you help women find ways to transition from that weight loss, be smaller,
be prettier, whatever aesthetic into something that nourishes and flourishes for them? Yeah.
And again, this all comes down to educating. So a big part of our programs is educating the clients,
because I don't want my clients to rely on me forever, first of all, and I don't want them to
train with me or, you know, take a specific nutrition plan with me for a specific goal,
I want to teach them how to eat for longevity and a lifetime and to train for longevity as well.
I've, you know, we've got clients that are vegetarian or Indian or Mediterranean, Mexican,
it doesn't matter. When I look at food and, you know, when I trained in the culinary
nutrition world as well, food is information, right? It's not just about macronutrients and
proteins, carbs and fats. That's great. That might help you achieve the body on the basic level,
but it's those micronutrients that we're looking at, the phytonutrients, it's everything.
What is that plate made up of? I don't know about you, Jasmine, but one of the main questions I get
from nutrition clients is where to grab a healthy meal when they're out and about. Oh, all the time,
and they're often happy to hear me recommend Guzmine Gomez, where clean is the new healthy.
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We know where we're headed after the podcast. Now back to the chat.
So what does protein, fats and carbs really mean? Means getting the absolute
best sources of each of those macronutrients within. The other thing I have to think about,
and it's really important to me is food is, there's nourishment, but it's cultural. And there is more
to eating, you know, we eat for pleasure, connection is involved with eating. So I don't
like to simply play with things like macros. That's just one word. So I really got to find out with my
clients is, you know, how do you guys spend time as a family? What type of foods you eat? What is
your childhood memories of food? What did you grow up eating? Like, does your mom make a certain
thing? And does that trigger, you know, this emotion within you? All of these things. And I
don't, I never want to take something away from a client. No food is off limits. But within my,
you know, we always have in mind what that client's goal is. The majority of the time it is going to be
body recomposition, fat loss or muscle gain. But how do we still encompass all of these other
factors so that you can achieve that goal? It might take a little bit longer, but it's going to be,
you know, you're going to be happy. It's going to be sustainable for you.
I think that's the key word is in the sustainability, whatever you can stick to,
because something that I could do might not work for somebody else. And I think it's you've got to
sort of tailor it for yourself. So Jasmine, I don't know about you, but lately I've been struggling
to keep up with the grocery shopping between work and the kids and everything in between.
It feels impossible to plan healthy meals without constantly run into the store. Oh my God, I know
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Club SG for recipes, updates and special offers. Right, now let's get back to the chat. Now how do
you deal with women who come into the gym and say I want to lose weight? Does that seem to be
like the main thing that women tend to come to see you for rather than I want to get fit or I want
to gain muscle? Does it always seem to be like I just want to lose weight? Honestly, maybe up until
about a year ago that was what was happening but I'm seeing a big shift at the moment. Amazing.
I just think there is so much more awareness out there and there's this catching now.
You know women in their 40s are finally understanding what's going on here.
I'm a nutritionist and even for the past 12-15 years when clients would come to see me about
something they would not come to me and say my cholesterol is off the charts or my HbA1c is high
or this is going on. It would always be I want to lose weight but as our job we're the investigators
and so we sit down and we say okay well I know that that's your goal but I just need to dig deep
and I think well my concern is how I'm going to get these numbers down. So that's what we're
that's where that nutrition in the background works and we're working towards for me getting
all of these markers down for you but yeah you'll still achieve your goal. Yeah well and I think
you used a term that I would love for every single one of our listeners to truly understand
so if you wouldn't mind doing us the indulgence of explaining it. Body recomposition. So women
say the words that Jasmine said they're familiar with lose weight but what they really want to
achieve truly is body recomposition. Can you tell us what that means? So in the simplest way to
explain that body recomposition is losing body fat whilst either maintaining or gaining muscle mass
so your weight may stay the same it may change it's just one piece of data that we have but you are
really changing you know that body composition of fat or muscle ratio. Jasmine there is so much
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code 40s on akizywelness.com. That's akizywelness.com and now back to the show.
Yeah and then this is totally off script now so get ready girl here we go.
When with the rise of things like ozempic right with weight loss drugs they help you lose weight
but as we know they're starting to destroy body composition. Have you seen the effect of ozempic
yet moving through your clientele? So we've started we've had two clients who have recently
started ozempic so we don't have that kind of clinical information of what happens but from
what I understand ozempic is you know if you're eating yourself to death then there might be a
place for ozempic absolutely work with your health care practitioner but the studies that I have
looked at have shown that you're not just losing body fat but you're actually losing muscle mass
as well and I think what you know we need to understand is if it's going to save your life
and you need to take ozempic but incorporate strength training as well so you're not losing
muscle mass because muscle really is the organ of longevity right that's what we need and that's
where I'm seeing a bigger problem. Yeah do you find that you know when women are going through
this re-comp you know they step under the scale they don't see any shift in their weight or they
might see a weight gain do they just think ah fuck I'm going to throw in the towel this isn't bloody
working or you know do you have to sort of coach them and be like well actually look you know I
don't know whether you do like an in-body or something in your in your clinic but is there
a way that you can sort of re-help emphasize that there is a re-comp happening and it's not just you
know like nothing's working. Yeah it's not related to the number on the scale necessarily. Absolutely
so every single client we do full you know anthropometric testing we've got the in-body
scan we're taking girth measurements we are taking photos front back side so we've got and
then obviously there's the weight so we've got so many points of data and this is always happens
that we can show a client to say okay maybe the scale has only gone down by one because I know
the clients are always interested in the scale it's gone down by a kilo and I know I know over
the years that the motivation is it's going to start to run but let's look at your photos because
we have apps that will do a before and after and we do the girth measurements but you can see
centimeters have dropped right we've got inches coming off of your body you look very very different
but only a kilo has dropped so maybe you know that's body fat hopefully that's pure body fat
maybe you've gained some muscle mass as well yeah and you know given the difficulty of women to kind
of accept that journey because it is you know again we are programmed to see a number on a scale and
make a judgment based on that what are three things that you would tell a woman starting a body
recomposition journey first and foremost number one priority focus on your nutrition all right out
of that nutrition if for body recomp purposes focus and prioritize protein and fiber okay those are
those two things absolutely not talking about the phytos and and your micronutrients, phytonutrients,
antioxidants that is really really important but just the body recomposition number two strength
train strength strength train one of the things that I've started to say a lot to my clients
lately is stop stop focusing on body fat or losing body fat start focusing on building muscle because
body fat will take care of itself once we start to build a certain amount of muscle for you
because you know your skeletal muscle is the largest site for glucose uptake about 80 percent
so let's start building that so you've got a place to you utilize these calories as well body fat's
going to take care of itself it's a side effect yeah yeah but I love that see because that speaks
to something that I get always as a coach and I know you must get this as well which is like oh I
I have to focus on losing body fat because if I start strength training I don't want to get too
bulky oh my god you know I can only lift these little weights because I don't want to get too
bulky I can only do so much strength training because I don't want to get too bulky I have to
do all this cardio because I don't want to get too bulky how do you help change this mindset in your
clients oh it's it's educational and it's it's a question that I used to ask my coach 15 years ago
so I really understand right just because I know now I know that these clients who are new to this
or even have been doing this for a few years still have that same concern so we we just tell them like
listen ladies we do not have the hormones we don't have that level of testosterone to be able to bulk
you would have to take some steroids some other medication to be able to get to that level I wish
I could put on muscle that fast I wish yeah so no it's not going to happen yeah and for someone
like me like CrossFit is my main sport right and my I put so much effort into getting better at
that sport getting stronger in that sport and I always think it's funny when my clients say
well I don't want to look like a CrossFitter and I was like don't worry you won't I was like unless
you have the capacity to train like an elite athlete and again potentially do some other stuff
on the side and that's you know the topic for another episode it's like you won't wake up one
day with traps connecting to your earlobes I promise you that you know especially like I said
if you're lifting less than half your body weight on a deadlift or something you know it's like
you're you're gonna be okay girl don't worry that's it but you just mentioned hormones and I think
something that's really unique about what you do and again if you don't mind me saying the age group
that you're in is that you kind of have this experience with the hormonal changes of women
right so whether it's training around their cycles training around pregnancies postpartum
changes and of course the entry to menopause paramenopause what shifts and adjustments do
you find useful when you're training women through some of these hormonally transitional periods
each of them are so different and and you can break it down into each yeah and you know if
we're talking about somebody training prenatally or postnatally it doesn't have to be that complicated
but it's on a it's on a client basis right so every client is still different we don't know
if that client has any prior experience to training if they're new to it most importantly
during that period prenatally we're looking at your form we're looking at your energy levels
what do you like because every day you know your three trimesters are different so we have to
do it's not very you can't just sit there and say I'm going to make a 12 week or a six week program
I think during these phases we're looking at that client on a day-to-day basis what are you feeling
today how did you sleep and his heightness different things going on there's an emotional
connection as well to all of this so you've really got to work with that client on that day
rather than just think that that's what it is because that's what the paper says
honestly when it comes to perimenopausal women which is a bit more where my experience is
that one's been tricky I'm myself have got a going on right in the midst of it right now so I
understand from a personal perspective as well but it's not yes we're having these hormonal changes
absolutely but hormones sometimes seem to just be the scapegoat for everything don't they
fair right but are we doing all the foundations are we putting those lifestyle medicine pillars
you know the six I think Dr. Fung was on here since you mentioned it are we putting those six
those lifestyle those pillars of lifestyle medicine in place are we looking at our sleep
are we looking at our nutrition are we looking at our training our stress management are we
you know and harmful substances things like that we can blame hormones it's just so easy to say
I'm out if my hormones are out of whack my metabolism is broken about you know there's
no such thing as a broken metabolism right let's stop focusing on blaming something when the
foundations haven't been put in place that's right so absolutely I do work with these ladies and I
said look you've got to work in getting these things in place let's get this in place don't
even talk to me about supplements you're not ready for supplements until these things are
absolutely sorted but the other aspect that I find is when these women come to me it's different
than even in our 30s because like myself many women are going through changes in the family
like you know we're going through emptiness syndrome somebody's left so is it a perimenopause or
a menopausal symptom that we're feeling today brain fog or anxiety or depression or are we having
other areas of our life you know it's confounding factors that are coming in and playing today
is it that you know you're missing your children or you've got this identity crisis at the moment
because a lot of these and expat women especially well we've dedicated our entire lives to raising
our children supporting our husbands suddenly we find ourselves what with nothing to do and
that's contributing to symptoms as well so we we need to figure out what's going on with each client
yeah and that hits home I think because I think back to you know blaming everything on hormones
I think because then it feels safe you can say hey this is my hormones it's not that I'm feeling
alone it's not that I'm feeling you know empty nest sadness it's like I can place it somewhere else
yeah yeah I also noticed actually when my hormones were changing and so I realized early on that when
I was 36 I went on hormones but when I noticed that they're changing when I am taking HRT
it's usually contributed to something else that is going on so you know I was stressed out with
another situation then my hormones tanked and then I was sleeping shit and then I had a re-comp not
the good way you know the belly fat way you know so when someone is going through this is there any
type of and and they are still eating well they are still exercising is there any type of specific
exercise or you know or something that they could do to help combat that menopause belly or
so the menopausal belly honestly I think I just wrote recently quite conclusively that look
menopause doesn't in itself cause the weight gain right there might be legitimate reasons where
something is very very very off and that's that's a medical situation there but for the majority of
women there is a redistribution going on within belly fat it's um you know that's just the
re-comp the re-comp that's happening in the wrong way with estrogen fall etc um I think what ends up
happening is if you look at the situation a lot of the time we're just probably moving less we're
sitting around a lot more at that time maybe like I said earlier maybe when you've got younger kids
you're running around them you just didn't realize but your NEET is higher just by having younger
kids or having some other purpose in life now we're not moving as much maybe feelings of lower mood
is making you you know crave certain foods and so you may just be eating a little bit more but that
will add up right that will add up by the end of the week and without us knowing we may just be
having three four five hundred calories in surplus and so that's potentially why we're gaining some
some weight at the moment not really it's the hormones so yes so look and I know that there is
a division here of who believes this but this is calories out calories out uh theory but that's the
one of the things that does stand it just might mean that the energy balance has changed because
of other area you know other factors within your life but it just might mean it's tipped somewhere
so we just bring them back and that's why with with my clients I'll always do a very thorough
food analysis for about three to four days and I'll put that through a software because I want
to see and I'll and I'll tell my clients be very specific with the portions that you're putting on
because that's going to help me analyze what you're eating the more data I have the better
I can help you right don't give me a perfect diary yeah give me real I need to see what you are eating
and that you know when we break that down we'll either see two things a we're really under eating
because you've we just under tracked or we are just overeating you know like when I was younger
I used to eat cereal and I'd have a bowl of cereal and it was a fucking big bowl of cereal
and now I realized shit 30 grams is like yeah must mean 30 grams is like a handful it's like
who the fuck eats that much it's great I don't eat cereal anymore but you know
just a bit out there like you probably think you're having a bowl of cereal but
you're gonna be having five bowls of cereal look I'm you know I've trained in culinary nutrition
I'm a qualified nutritionist but I will still over or underestimate what I'm eating if I'm not logging
fair I will still do it and I know it's not on a scale right like as good as you can get at eyeballing
right because I've been in this gig a long time as well and it's like I get real good I can look at
a hundred grams of chicken six different ways but at the end of the day you throw it on a food scale
and all is revealed you know so I always say to my clients if you're not measuring you're not managing
absolutely and you don't have to measure forever and you know I don't put every chicken breast on
a scale but when it's a new food or a portion I'm not familiar with I will weigh it the first time
because that helps give me the data that I need to make sure I'm on track yeah and that that's
where my my issue comes in with the intuitive eaters because that you know my clients are like
well I'm quite intuitive I'm slip but it's not so it hasn't been serving you up until now how can
you be intuitive if you really don't even know what a serving is yeah so just initially I do ask
all of them to track it's just data it's just data that's right it's not judgment yes it's just data
well you dropped an acronym that I thought was very powerful and I think more women need to be
aware of which was NEAT right so non-exercise activity thermogenesis can you give us an idea
of what would be NEAT activities and how we can increase our NEAT yeah so it's just sort of
whether you're standing at your desk and doing work or taking the stairs instead of taking the
elevator take the MRT or take the bus as opposed to take your car things like that where you're
just getting that extra movement because if you're working out in the gym you're working out for one
hour that's right what are we doing with the rest of that day and often you probably found Amanda
where clients are then sitting for six to seven hours but I went to f45 this morning NEAT that
was 45 minutes yeah absolutely and so NEAT actually can account for a much higher amount
for energy expenditure than that one hour of exercise that you've done so I say look you don't
have to go into the gym and kill yourself that's not how we we're are in our 40s we're not in our
20s or 30s work with intensity absolutely do you need to be dripping in buckets of sweat no
you need to work a good pace that is okay for you today but you can maximize your movement around
you know that one hour of exercise yeah and you know it's funny you also mentioned about like the
the women in their 40s saying oh my metabolism slowed down and like you said you're not chasing
young kids around anymore it's so interesting right because I'm in that I'm in both worlds
so I'm in my 40s but I also have young kids and it's like I can see how the amount that you pick
them up the amount of functions that you perform for them you know changing diapers lifting on
the toilets whatever whatever you don't notice that and how much good that does for you because
it's working for you in the positive body re-comp but on the back end as those tasks fade away
you're less willing to acknowledge that you're just not doing as much manual labor for your kids
anymore and I think that is a huge multiplier for women with with you know either one or more
children yeah so obviously strength training is so important for our longevity and you know just our
health in general what about when women say I don't have the time how can they incorporate
strength training in to their routine? Well when I think you have to place a value on it right do
you really want it you can't make anybody do anything so you have to prioritize you know that
time and for me I can talk for myself that strength training is important to me as waking up and
brushing my teeth it's a part of my daily habit as much as like if I've got a meeting and I've put
that in my diary my training is scheduled at the beginning of the week and it's absolutely
non-negotiable I won't take a client over it I won't take another meeting over it every week
it's just scheduled in I place a high value on that though that's important to me and I think
with our clients whilst we can start them off and saying look put it schedule it first and foremost
we can make time because you've got time we've all got time let's be honest right you've got time to
go out for long lunches or long dinners or things like that it's where just put that in do it and
don't overthink it yeah yeah I think that you know one of my favorite quotes about just the role of
exercise in your life right is like if you don't find time for health you will have to find time
for disease right and it's so true it's like you know you can't squeeze in a workout but later
you're gonna have to be squeezing in trips to you know get your insulin refilled or whatever you
know I'm making this very dramatic but it's true it's true the time that you have when you invest it
in health it pays you back in spades and I think in our 40s is when we can really start to see the
the recouping of that or for some of us unfortunately the consequences of that of not putting in the time
in our 20s and 30s to reap what we you know we reap what we've sown don't we and one of the ones
I actually often ask my clients as well as I was like if you don't have time why don't you show me
your screen time because I'm always pulling out steps counts in the consultations right I'm always
like they're like I get enough steps I was like pull it up right now Apple Health right now let's
look at one month six months same I love that pull up your screen time oh yeah my husband was
said but I was working oh my job demands me to be online okay okay let's stick 50% of that that's
probably still enough time to work out yes exactly that's so funny I like that girl I'm taking that
tactic and look I one more thing I'm gonna add not everybody has the same goals right just because
it means a certain amount to me or to you or to you it doesn't have to mean that much to a specific
client or somebody else that's right because health and progress is different for everybody
because for a client a it might mean I got out of bed today and I went for a walk that's progress
to that client whereas another client that progress might look something like well you know I I lifted
100 kg deadlift yeah so we have to separate it and just that's my goal that is relevant no but
you're absolutely right and and I think what we all share no matter what our end goal is whatever
the specificity of that goal is we all share the fact that we want to live longer lives in healthier
years right we want to have a our health span extend to our lifespan and I think any woman
that you work with would say the same they want to be around for their kids their grandkids and be
the strongest version of themselves and you know you trying to kind of spread the gospel of strength
training and nourishment is how they get there yeah and it's so valuable so as we wrap up here
you know we've had a great chat with some really actionable steps around health but I would love to
know from you Charlie because as you mentioned to us I hope this is not too much disclosure
you've made it through your 40s one more year left yeah so looking back on the decade that is about to
have passed what is your 40s formula how do you help women thrive succeed be their best selves in
this decade probably for me I learned this in mid 40s embrace it because it's going to happen
right but you get to decide what that looks like yeah I personally you know I've done some of my
biggest achievements in my 40s you know I've started a new business and I'm nearly 50 I've you know I
learn new things because like I said I'm nearly an empty nester as well what am I going to do with my
time and sit around a moat or I can pick up new skills things that I've always wanted to do in
my 20s when I could and on my 30s when I had a family I'm doing that now because we've got the
resources everything's online there's we can do anything so pick it up and do it and stop making
excuses I love that I love that no excuses guys no excuses decade we always say that no shit's given
well thank you so much for being here with us today we really appreciate it Charlie thank you
hey Amanda have you heard about saltify it's the ultimate hydration hack for anyone pushing
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you can try it out that's www.saltify.me this is paul our editor he's a 25 year old unmarried
singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women on everything from menopause to
weightlifting to sex so paul what's your thoughts on today's conversation so weight loss uh well
in full confession it's something that i personally do struggle with as a whole like i'm not obese in
the overweight sense of course but i do struggle with maintaining weight and all of that because
you know when time is needed to exercise it is kind of like the first thing that gives in my life
right now and along with sleep you know just to get things done anyway um guys remember to find
time to exercise regularly and i'll see you guys in the next one guys you know how much we love
coffee and if you want to share some love you know you can get us one just visit buymeacoffee.com
slash the forties formula cheers before we go please remember to hit subscribe and take a moment
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so
thank you so much for taking the time out for us yeah not gonna lie i'm glad that's done
you did great and again any of those little pauses like we'll just glue them right up
okay you will not hear them on the back end the beauty of editing i know well done you guys
are you done now well we are done for today yeah we still have another day tomorrow of recording
with them that'll be that that'll be the end for season three well no until august yeah until
august yeah we've got we've got these like outstanding guests that are like oh we haven't
even told paul these dates paul when are you going to be able to tell us what are your dates
dates sure you'd have a reason dates i'm a bit uh i don't know if it's paul's going back to uni