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My cousin is polyamorous.

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And that was the first time that I learned about poly communities that like where it's

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it's exactly as you mentioned, like it's an open sort of emotional, romantic and physical

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interdependence, which I had never experienced before.

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But he's loving it.

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So go polyamory.

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Wow.

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He's Gen Z though.

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So he's cool.

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We should invite him to the podcast and have this conversation.

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We should call my cousin.

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Hey hey and welcome to the 40s Formula, your go to place for insightful discussions on

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navigating the 40s and thriving in this transformative decade.

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We are your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda, two women that are passionate about exploring

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the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.

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Today we are speaking to Deanne Handiani, an integrative and trauma informed therapist

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specializing in sex and art therapy.

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With over a decade of experience in public health care, Deanne has worked with a diverse

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range of clients, including people with sexual health issues and adults dealing with trauma

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and mental health challenges.

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As the director of Nambani, she provides professional and confidential care, emphasizing inclusivity

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and welcoming diversity.

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Deanne's expertise spans psychosexual therapy and art psychotherapy, making her a unique

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and compassionate voice in mental and emotional wellbeing.

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So I was at a networking event and I met Deanne.

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Deanne was sat next to me randomly and she told me that she was a sex therapist and my

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ears instantly perked up.

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I was like, ah, this could be an interesting chat.

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And honestly, it really, really was.

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So we are super excited to have Deanne here with us today.

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And one of our topics of conversation went to why couples sex lives dwindle over time.

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So Deanne, what would you say are some of the common reasons for this and how can couples

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reignite passion, you know, as we get older?

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That's a very good question.

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And thank you for inviting me to the podcast as well, by the way.

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And yeah, when we met at the networking event and we get to talk about long term relationship

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and how passion dwindle.

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I want to say this is very commonly happening in the long term relationship.

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And when that happened, please don't panic.

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It's just to understand, okay, this is part and parcel of a long term relationship.

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And so there are many reasons and sometimes life and priorities just get in the way of

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having having the passionate sex life that you used to have when you first met, you know,

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like how many times you have to cancel our date nights because one of our kids gets unwell.

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Right.

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Yes.

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And especially living in Singapore, life in Singapore is so stressful and we live at a

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very past based society.

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And yeah, so so it's often just life gets in the way.

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Another thing that worth considering is perhaps you no longer enjoy the sex that you are having.

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And it's also normal because as we age, we get to this 40s formula, right?

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Our body also change.

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So maybe certain position that used to be very pleasurable becomes a bit of a painful

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position or some of the body parts didn't feel the same way like before due to perimenopause

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or menopause.

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Right.

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And maybe body image changes as well or we no longer feel good about our body, how it

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looks, the aging body.

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So maybe the question that we can ask is that it's not about how can we reignite the passion,

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but it's more about what makes us want the sex that worth prioritizing.

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And another question is to ask what is it that you want when you have sex with a long

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term partner who sits next to you for another eight years, five years, 20 years down the

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line, right?

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Go deeper and ask this kind of questions.

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Right.

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What is it?

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Is it about connection?

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Is it about sharing pleasure together?

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Is it about that feeling of, oh, I want to be wanted, I want to be desired or even a

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freedom after a while, maybe you want to have a freedom where you can express yourself sexually

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in the very expressive way that's different than when you are in your 20s, 30s, et cetera.

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Yeah.

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So I'll invite people to go deeper and ask these questions.

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Amanda, I'm going to be honest with you.

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Sometimes my kids just don't poop.

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For real, I actually hear you.

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With two little ones and a baby, the poop situation around our house is very, very real.

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But since we started taking probiotic plus base from Akizie Wellness, it's actually gotten

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a lot better.

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Probiotic plus base is such an easy way to get 10 probiotic species and a good hit of

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prebiotic fiber into your entire family's diet.

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And you can sprinkle it on yogurt, mix it into cereals and even combine it into infant

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milk products.

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Yeah.

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When my son transitioned down to formula and had some weird tummy troubles, it was a lifesaver.

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And to be honest, for me, I don't mind taking a spoonful of it right into my mouth when

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I'm pressed for time.

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And now back to the show.

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Are you finding that people are doing things that are a bit outside of the box from, you

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know, just, I don't know, maybe using sex toys, open relationships, like other things

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that are happening that are not, I wouldn't say not normal, but you know, are a bit, you

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know, yeah, I guess that's a little 10.

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Of course, human, as we strive for novelties, right?

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Sex toys are one of the amazing ways to explore that, you know, adding that fun, funness,

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maybe increasing the freedom that we want to have in our sexual life, right?

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Maybe when we were younger, we didn't know our body well, so we go and explore sex toys

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to, hey, you know, so this is, this is, you mean my body can feel this awesome pleasure

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with this certain vibration and this certain sensation.

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So yes, novelties like that are very, it's one of the key ingredients that can add more

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sparks, if you want to say that, into your sex life as well.

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And open marriages, is that something that you're seeing a lot of right now?

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Yeah, actually, interestingly, it's, it's, it's been, it's been quite popular.

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And I guess, I wonder if COVID has changed the way we look about relationship.

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Interesting.

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Got part of your husband.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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In what way?

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We get isolated, we get living alone.

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Some of us have to live alone, or some of us get stuck in this same family, same routine.

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So a lot of us began to question who, what is a family unit?

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What is relationship?

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What is it that we want out of life, right?

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I mean, I think COVID does that, and the younger generation, the lovely Gen Z millennials are

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also open and embracing new way of relating and new way in relationship, which done right,

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they can be quite exciting, actually.

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When you say Gen Z, right?

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My Gen Z crash course in like how they view sex and relationships is that show Sex Education.

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Did you ever see that show?

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Yes, oh, I love that.

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Like, it is both informative and bewildering to me as a millennial, as an elder millennial.

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It's like they are just, you know, everybody's like whatever gender, everybody's like there's

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some threesomes, there's some, is threesomes even a thing you say anymore?

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Or do you say polyamorous relationships?

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Like I don't even know what the terminology is, but I feel like there is a huge distance,

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a cavern between millennial sex and relationships and the Gen Z and they just have no problem

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with anything.

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Am I perceiving that because I'm old?

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And the Gen X.

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Is it even a wider goal from Gen X?

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I'm not sure.

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Does it change then depending on, you know, what generation you are?

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No, I guess it actually generation aside, I guess now we're living in the culture where

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it's so open and free to explore different thing.

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So when you talk about terms, is it polyamorous, is this this, I like to introduce a term from

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one of renowned sex therapists, Tammy Nelson.

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And she, I like her book.

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The book is called Open Monogamy.

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Interesting.

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Yeah.

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I can send the information on that as well.

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So she introduced the term and idea that monogamy existed in continuum.

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So on one end, there is a type of a closed type of monogamy relationship that we are

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familiar with it.

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And then followed by fantasy.

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So this is where couples start to be more open and okay with having fantasy with others,

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including maybe watching pornography together.

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And then another one next in the continuum is sexual open monogamy continuum where sexual

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and affectionate play with other people are open as long as the other parties and present

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is considered okay.

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And so swinging falls under this category.

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And then somewhere in the middle of the continuum is the independent type of open monogamy where

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have you heard about this policy called don't ask, don't tell policy?

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I have heard of this.

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I feel so old.

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Like every time someone brings up some kind of thing, I'm like, how do I not know this

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stuff?

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But I don't know if I have it right.

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It's basically that both partners in the, in the monogamous relationship can go have

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whatever sexual ex escapades they want with whomever, but they just don't bring it home.

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Meaning like they just, it is all depending on their agreement.

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Okay.

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And it's all depending on their, um, what they are consented with, what they're agreed

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upon.

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And, and yeah, so it's all, it's all depending on agreement.

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And then on the other end, there's this poly relationship where physical, emotional, affectionate,

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romantic bonded relationship with multiple partners, permissible.

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And in some poly communities, they can even have a shared responsibilities where they

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have a child's rearing together.

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Um, even in the polyamory community, they have another term called open table, um, polyamory

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kitchen table polyamory.

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I say open table.

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I was like, wow, no, it really is a miscellaneous term.

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There's a lot of terms.

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I mean, kitchen table, you said?

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Kitchen.

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Yeah.

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Kitchen.

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I think kitchen table polyamory.

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I think that would be my husband's worst nightmare.

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He always says, because I can barely put up with one relationship with one, like straight

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up wife.

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Having more than one wife would just be like way too much to handle.

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So Jasmine, I don't know about you, but lately I've been struggling to keep up with the grocery

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shopping between work and the kids and everything in between.

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It feels impossible to plan healthy meals without constantly run into the store.

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Oh my God.

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I know exactly what you mean.

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I feel like I've got everything and then bam, something's missing.

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So that's why I started using the meat club.

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Okay.

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Tell me more.

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This sounds like a total lifesaver.

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your family.

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They even have a flexible subscription service too.

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Okay.

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I just had a look and that subscription service sounds amazing.

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Right.

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Now let's get back to the chat.

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My cousin is polyamorous and that was the first time that I learned about poly communities

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that like where it's, it's exactly as you mentioned, like it's an open sort of emotional,

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uh, romantic and physical interdependence, which I had never experienced before, but

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he's loving it.

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So go polyamory.

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Wow.

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He's Gen Z though.

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So we should invite him to the podcast and have this conversation.

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We should call my cousin.

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Because it will be, it will be interesting because I think every poly communities and

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poly experience are very unique and very different because again, it's going back to, um, their

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agreement.

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Yeah.

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The mix of the community is very unique, I think.

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Yeah.

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So do all of these need to have like some kind of, I guess, communication upfront?

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Otherwise it then becomes a cheating, I guess, wouldn't it?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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What are the rules?

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Like are there rules even in these like open type of relationships?

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Oh, absolutely.

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Oh my goodness.

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Um, for sure.

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Right.

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But the idea and the thoughts and the fantasy around it, especially when you are contemplating

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around it, it could be very fun.

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But back to your first question, it's really not a bandaid for dwindling erotic sparks

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in relationship.

241
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,680
It's not, right?

242
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:14,440
You really need to kind of, um, it takes a lot of work to open up your relationship and

243
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:20,280
the relationship itself needs to have a strong foundation that include trust, psychological

244
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,960
safety, consent, good communication.

245
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:30,840
Um, I don't want to sound like a public health messaging here, but I think ideally if you

246
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,720
can follow the sixth principle of sexual health, and I think this is important for everyone

247
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:42,040
to know, um, the origin of the principle actually came from the WHO definition on sexual health.

248
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:47,760
Um, and then Mr. Brownhead Harvey, a sexual health educator instilled the sixth principle

249
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,280
from the definition.

250
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:55,760
And I really love this because it gives you like a compass, like a guide, um, that can

251
00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:02,340
be helpful for, um, opening up relationship or sexual health, um, sexual health practice

252
00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:03,340
in general.

253
00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:06,600
So this principle are consent, consent.

254
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:13,880
This is the most universal sexual health principle on the planet around the world.

255
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:23,960
Consent is important, um, and the, the safe consent, sexual health is a human right.

256
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:31,120
And so, um, informed consent is also important, including being clear about your status.

257
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:39,000
Like, you know, like for example, if you're looking for a new partner and if your monogamy

258
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:45,440
agreement is to play together, meet up upfront and transparent to your new play partner,

259
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,440
for example, because maybe the new play partner, Oh no, I just want to play with you, with

260
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,000
one of you.

261
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,880
And, and so you have to be really be honest and open and consensual, right?

262
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,760
Everything has to be on the table.

263
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:07,040
And then the, um, the next value around this, it's, um, non-exploitative.

264
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,680
So healthy sex cannot be exploitative sex.

265
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:21,040
This is where people leverage their power and control to receive, um, sexual gratification.

266
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,280
And this includes things like, um, affair, um, right?

267
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:31,920
This is where one partner changed the agreement behind the other partner's back and sometimes

268
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:37,720
gaslighting them, cheating, um, and exploiting partner's trust.

269
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,840
That's, that's, that's not, that's not on.

270
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:41,840
Yeah.

271
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:47,560
So, so a good sexual health plan should, should be non-exploitative.

272
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:55,520
And this is important because, um, um, we also need our partner to know, can we be,

273
00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:02,280
can all of us be protected from SDI and unintended pregnancy?

274
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:03,280
Oh yeah.

275
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,280
That way.

276
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:05,280
Yeah.

277
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,280
I mean, that would throw a little wrench in your polyamory.

278
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,200
It's an unexpected pregnancy.

279
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,840
You have to have that conversation.

280
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,720
You have to have a conversation around, Hey, how do you feel if I kiss the person?

281
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,920
Because there's going to be fluid exchange.

282
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:25,240
Um, what is, um, talking about your SDI status, talking about our protection.

283
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:26,240
Right.

284
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:32,200
Of course we, we, we want to embrace the fun part, but all this other values needs to be

285
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,200
there.

286
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,760
Um, the other one is definitely honesty and honesty comes in twofold.

287
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,080
Can we be honest about ourselves, what we want and what we don't want?

288
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:50,640
And can we communicate that and as well as communicate, um, honesty with others?

289
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,800
So that's, that's, um, that's twofold.

290
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,560
Um, honesty can include things like what feels good and what doesn't feel good.

291
00:18:58,560 --> 00:18:59,860
What's my boundary?

292
00:18:59,860 --> 00:19:00,920
What's my limit?

293
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,600
What's my red line?

294
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:03,600
What's my aim?

295
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:10,040
The green flags on all this kind of thing that needs to be communicated.

296
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,080
The other value should be, um, shared value.

297
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,020
So if you do want to open up your relationship or even thinking about opening up, do you

298
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:22,720
share the same value as a couple?

299
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:31,600
And this require open communication and clarification of our motives, our standard, our biases.

300
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:37,280
And usually in the monogamous relationship, we take all these values for granted.

301
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,160
We assume we share the same values.

302
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,720
But then when you open up and you start having a discussion, like, Hey babe, how do you feel

303
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,920
if, um, if I kiss that person or touch the person?

304
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:57,360
And then suddenly you feel like, Oh, I don't feel comfortable around that.

305
00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,520
I think my response would be completely different.

306
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,000
Like, yeah, yeah.

307
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,840
If my husband said, Hey babe, yeah, well again, we're not in a polyamorous relationship.

308
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,080
So we're not the authorities, I suppose.

309
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,080
Yeah.

310
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,040
Hey Amanda, you know how much I love clean home cooked food.

311
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,160
There's just something about knowing exactly what goes into your meal, right?

312
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,160
Yeah.

313
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,160
But let's also be real.

314
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,480
It's just not possible to cook at home with our busy schedules.

315
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,520
I know, but that's why I've been loving Guzmine Gomez.

316
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,800
They've taken fast food and they've made it healthy.

317
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,240
You get fresh quality ingredients, all cooked from scratch, no processed stuff, just real

318
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:32,240
food.

319
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:33,440
Oh, I love that so much.

320
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,960
So even when I cannot cook at home, I don't have to compromise on eating clean.

321
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:37,960
Yup.

322
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:43,440
And GYG offers everything from burritos, bowls and salads packed with fresh veggies, lean

323
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,440
meats and wholesome grains and no added preservatives or artificial flavors.

324
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,400
And the best part for me is that it is fast.

325
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,160
So you're not stuck waiting forever for a healthy meal when you're already in a rush.

326
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,160
Yup.

327
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,080
For me, I love that I can customize my own meal too.

328
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,880
I'll have a burrito bowl, no rice, double protein.

329
00:20:58,880 --> 00:20:59,920
Yes, please.

330
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:04,320
Just head to your nearest GYG or order delivery with ease through their Instagram and social

331
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,960
media platforms at no price markups.

332
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,320
Trust me, it is the perfect solution when you want something quick, healthy and delicious

333
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,120
because clean is the new healthy.

334
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,960
Sounds like a win to me.

335
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,400
Now let's get back to the chat.

336
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:23,320
Well, I don't feel like I'm the authority, but I just want to share what I've learned

337
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,840
and what I've heard, what I've seen.

338
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,840
And yes, the shared value is really important as well to be discussed.

339
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:37,840
So when you are in an open relationship, it's no longer something that implicit.

340
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,560
Is it implicit or explicit?

341
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,680
Which one is where you have to say it out?

342
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:42,680
Explicit.

343
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,420
It has to be explicit.

344
00:21:44,420 --> 00:21:46,120
You cannot assume it.

345
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:47,120
Yeah.

346
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:50,400
This kind of thing has to be out there.

347
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,080
And of course, mutual pleasure.

348
00:21:53,080 --> 00:22:00,360
So hopefully if you follow all these five values, that will lead to the mutual pleasure

349
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:04,560
where you can relax.

350
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,240
We know all those values, our principles are being followed.

351
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:17,040
You can have a good fun, relax and yeah, a satisfying relationship that you want really.

352
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,680
Well, I think obviously the producers of Bridgerton were listening to this.

353
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,320
Did you guys watch the most recent season?

354
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,600
Oh, I don't want to spoiler alert for you then.

355
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,720
By the time this comes out, everyone better have seen it.

356
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,840
I'm going to spoil it for you.

357
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,280
There's a polyamory scene, which I love because it follows not only the directives that you

358
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:40,200
were just talking about, but specifically it's a female male relationship.

359
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,200
Okay.

360
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,280
With one of the Bridgerton's, I don't want to spoil it.

361
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,880
And then she tells him that she already has a male partner and would he like to join in

362
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:49,920
that partnership?

363
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,720
And he says, okay, dokey after some thoughts, right?

364
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,520
They get into that polyamorous relationship, two men, one female.

365
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,200
And then she realizes she actually preferred it the old way, even though she's the one

366
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,300
who did the inviting.

367
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:07,120
And she presented that to him and said, you know, this is actually, I just want to be

368
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:08,120
with you.

369
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,160
And he's like, I actually prefer the new way.

370
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,240
But what was cool, this is the circle back to what I think was cool.

371
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,360
What's cool about this is that obviously they wrote it in such a way that she had to be

372
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,080
the one being honest and vulnerable.

373
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:25,680
And then when it didn't go her way that like she was mature about it and able to accept

374
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,680
that.

375
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,680
Right.

376
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,340
And I think that was such a cool way that they wrote it, you know, where it was like

377
00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:34,720
she was able to be honest and vulnerable with both partners and she didn't get the outcome

378
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:35,720
she wanted.

379
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,120
And that was okay.

380
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:38,560
You know, and they dissolved that partnership.

381
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,280
And I thought that's that's how you would want this to happen.

382
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,280
Right.

383
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,440
And I think that you mentioned that because this open relationship, often the catalyst

384
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:52,240
for you to dig deeper into your own self, you know, with comes with this, we have to

385
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,080
deal with things like jealousy.

386
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,080
Yeah.

387
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,080
Right.

388
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,080
Jealousy is a big thing.

389
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,000
And quite often jealousy with jealousy.

390
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,680
The iceberg is jealousy, rage and all this kind of thing.

391
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:13,440
But if you dig deeper and really look into it, it could be things like my own self worth.

392
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,440
Right.

393
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:22,800
Trauma around sleeping, reverie, abandonment issue that you really needs to work on.

394
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:28,000
And quite often this open relationship can evoke that kind of thing.

395
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:34,440
And if you work on on that deeper aspect of it, of yourself, it can be quite a powerful

396
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,640
thing, actually, for the people involved.

397
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:42,640
Just like what you mentioned that you write, she had to be open up and allow her vulnerability.

398
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,840
She has to think this doesn't work for me.

399
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,840
And what does it mean?

400
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:46,840
Yeah.

401
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:47,840
And like it worked in the past.

402
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:48,840
It's not working now.

403
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,960
And I feel like that's a great kind of metaphor for other things in our forties.

404
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:52,960
Right.

405
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,760
Which is like just because I was OK with something or something was working for me in the past.

406
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,000
Now I'm in a different chapter and now it isn't the same.

407
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,000
And now it's a different partner.

408
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,080
You know, like this is a different situation.

409
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,120
That's what got me into this field of sex therapy.

410
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:12,840
The same thing when I when I started off this work, I was an art therapist and I felt I

411
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,760
felt like that where where things just didn't work out anymore.

412
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,160
And back then there was no algorithm.

413
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,280
It was literally straight times.

414
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,120
There's an advert come to open house therapy.

415
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,120
I just go there.

416
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:33,960
And then that's what that what my initiation into mental health.

417
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,120
And the same thing happened with sex therapy.

418
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,280
I was working in the hospital with mental health.

419
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,760
I just have this feeling like it's no longer working anymore, but I don't know what it

420
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:45,760
is.

421
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:52,760
And then again, an advert came out, Sydney University doing this training and sex therapy

422
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:53,960
and stuff.

423
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,720
And I'm like, OK, I'm just going to see where it takes me.

424
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:57,720
Yeah.

425
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:58,720
It's a change, right?

426
00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,720
It's yeah.

427
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:00,720
And that's a courageous.

428
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:01,720
Yeah.

429
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:02,720
That's the 40th formula.

430
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:03,720
Yeah, for sure.

431
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:11,040
So a couple of weeks ago, I was watching Prime and there was a movie on there called Dark

432
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,040
Water.

433
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,040
So another spoiler alert.

434
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,680
If you guys haven't seen it, it's a shit movie anyway.

435
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,680
So you put it on.

436
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:16,680
Yeah, so skip it.

437
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,160
But I'll just tell you, give you the gist of what happens.

438
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,000
There's a couple who are married.

439
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,800
Ben Affleck is in the movie and his wife is openly.

440
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,880
I'm going to use the word cheating because he is not OK with it, but she is sleeping

441
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,920
with other men and he goes around killing everyone.

442
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,840
That's basically the gist, the gist of it.

443
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:44,880
So are there any situations where you would advise against an open marriage polyamory?

444
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,560
You know, like where would you say actually this is not going to work?

445
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:50,560
OK.

446
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:51,560
I don't know.

447
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:57,080
Before your husband guys around killing all the men you sleep with.

448
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,680
I was about to say don't do what Ben Affleck did.

449
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,080
That's my advice for life guys.

450
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,080
Don't do what Ben Affleck did.

451
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,120
Although you're in a pajama, so your life is cool.

452
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:10,120
I guess I split everything.

453
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:13,760
You know, there's always two sides of the coins, right?

454
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,760
What I'm trying to say, couples have a unique way of relating.

455
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:23,600
So there's no kind of magic formula on what to do or not to do.

456
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:30,680
But you can start answering these questions.

457
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:37,400
So some of the questions, right, could include, do I have a solid enough relationship to withstand

458
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,960
open monogamy?

459
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,440
Right.

460
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:47,240
Another question, do I have old trauma, hurt, betrayal that I need to clear up before I

461
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,240
open this relationship up?

462
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,360
Am I aware of my own personal boundary?

463
00:27:53,360 --> 00:28:00,080
If I have issue around saying yes and no, do I have the capacity to communicate this

464
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,080
clearly?

465
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,440
So that's another good question to have, right?

466
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,680
Jealousy.

467
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,360
How can I handle jealousy?

468
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:15,120
Even if my partner expressed jealousy, how do I cope with it?

469
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:23,480
So these are good questions to kind of consider before we open up, or even as we are fantasizing

470
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,320
about opening up.

471
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,680
How do I handle FOMO?

472
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,320
So one of those days where you have to take care of a sick child and your partner is on

473
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,320
the date.

474
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,320
Oh, wow.

475
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:35,320
Yeah.

476
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,320
I'd be pissed.

477
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:41,280
I was like, this is clearly opening up the issue that I would have.

478
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:49,680
And then your partner came home, and then you can see the glow on the face, and then

479
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:55,560
you have to handle with, I'm happy for you, the term is compression, but yet I'm also

480
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:56,560
suffering inside.

481
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,360
How do you handle that, right?

482
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:08,200
And at the same token is how do you handle when you're being ghosted by your own partner,

483
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,880
how is that going to impact your current relationship?

484
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:17,400
Are you going to throw the fire onto your current relationship, which is also unfair,

485
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:18,400
right?

486
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,400
Yeah.

487
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:27,840
And another question is how do I handle new relationship energy when my partner is developing

488
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,440
a new relationship with their partner?

489
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:35,480
So all these kind of questions, kind of important for you to guide, is this the right thing

490
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,720
for me or not?

491
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:42,680
And ask that question within yourself and ask that question with your partner, have

492
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:43,680
this conversation.

493
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:44,680
Yeah, exactly.

494
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:51,080
And do you find that when people are in say an open relationship, which is consensual,

495
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,000
so everyone's okay with it, it's like...

496
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,040
All six pillars, check, check, check.

497
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,040
All done.

498
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,800
Does that reignite the sex life between the original couple or is it that they're having

499
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,160
too much sex elsewhere that it's like, oh, you know what?

500
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,160
Good question.

501
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,160
We're not, we can't do it now.

502
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:10,560
Like we're better because we're less with each other.

503
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,160
It against it very, it varied between person.

504
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:21,920
For some it can bring that certain sparks in the relationship, you know, for some it

505
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:30,440
can be quite fun, oh, maybe learning new thing from other person or maybe discovering, oh,

506
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,280
I didn't know that I like this because to be fair, we can be a different person with

507
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,160
another person, right?

508
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,920
Even with our girlfriend, with different girlfriend, we are different person.

509
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:47,720
So for couples who does swinging sometimes and witnessing their couple having fun and

510
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:53,240
you get, oh, I didn't know that he can do this or she can do that and it can be quite

511
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,760
a turn on, right?

512
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,880
You can increase the couple desirability.

513
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:08,480
So yeah, it can be quite fun, especially if that's something that they agreed.

514
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:14,760
So for some couple with certain kind of agreement where they agree to be a primary relationship,

515
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:22,080
how can we continue to keep that sexual energy alive even though there's another excitement

516
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,080
around.

517
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,600
So they need to have that kind of conversation as well.

518
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,600
Yeah.

519
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:34,400
And sometimes the novelty from other relationship can seep in and adding new fun stuff into

520
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,720
the existing relationship.

521
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:36,720
Okay.

522
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,680
I have to ask you a question here because I'm thinking of like, you know, my exact situation,

523
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,920
which is I have a four year old, a two year old and a newborn.

524
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,720
And so, so personally, I open it up nothing right now.

525
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:53,080
But anyway, let's, let's be hypothetical.

526
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,080
Okay.

527
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,080
Yeah.

528
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,200
So hypothetical me and my partner, let's say we decide to open up our marriage.

529
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,320
How do you help couples navigate?

530
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,320
So they have kids at home.

531
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,320
Oh yeah.

532
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:11,160
So how do you help couples navigate going being polyamorous?

533
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,000
I don't even have the language for this.

534
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,000
Open polyamorous.

535
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,000
Open relationship.

536
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,520
But then keeping our parental boundaries.

537
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,120
Like it just seems so confusing to me.

538
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,120
Um.

539
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,880
Like, do you just leave the house?

540
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,560
I mean, I guess it's just weird to me to think of like, you know, we go out and have these

541
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,440
different personas and then we come back and we're parents.

542
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,360
You know, I just feel like, how do you, is there ever, do you have clients tell that

543
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:36,360
struggles with that?

544
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,360
How do you integrate?

545
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:38,360
Yeah.

546
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,320
Your, your parent self and your sexy self.

547
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,160
I get, is that just different identities like this?

548
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,160
This is you as a parent.

549
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,160
Yeah, like I turn this off and I turn this on.

550
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,320
Well, that's, I mean, as a person, you are all this person.

551
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:52,320
You are a mom.

552
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,640
You are a sexual self.

553
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,760
You are, you are, you are parents.

554
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,480
You are all of this, right?

555
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:08,080
Um, and, and sometimes it's, um, and sometimes we have to compartmentalize that, uh, for,

556
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,840
for the safety of our own family.

557
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:17,760
And I don't have the right answer for this, but I think sometimes it's, um, it's giving

558
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:23,560
a permission to allow this different part of you kind of, um, express itself in the

559
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,560
way that's healthy.

560
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,560
And of course, following all the six principle and stuff.

561
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:29,560
Right.

562
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:30,560
Yeah.

563
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:37,160
So, so yeah, I mean, I think going back to that, um, that first question that I have,

564
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:44,240
what, what's the reason of you want to have sex if, if as a couple you agree to, um, we

565
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,760
want to explore that freedom part of us without impacting our family safety and stuff like

566
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:50,760
that.

567
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,480
And let's have fun in the, in the hotel, for example, with your play partner.

568
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:01,200
And from that you, you, you find, um, this is fun.

569
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,280
This is good for us.

570
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,960
And I feel refreshed.

571
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,200
I feel great.

572
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,600
As a result, you feel closer to your husband.

573
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:15,440
You feel more appreciation, more trust and admiration than, um, who am I to say no, right?

574
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,160
Who are we to say no?

575
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,160
Yeah.

576
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,160
And perhaps at some point in your life that can be integrated when your kids are old,

577
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,480
um, they are in their own forties.

578
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,640
Well, mama might not be around.

579
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:30,640
Yeah, yeah.

580
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:37,280
No, I mean, I've been following some, um, some, some Instagram influencer.

581
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,600
Um, um, they're the expert and in the polyamory.

582
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:47,880
I think one of it, um, their parents just opened up that they are in the open relationship

583
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,680
and they are in their eighties.

584
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:50,680
Wow.

585
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:51,680
Get it grandma.

586
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:58,720
Which I think, um, if, if they were in there 40 years ago, I don't think that would be

587
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,200
acceptable with the marriage.

588
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,200
Yeah.

589
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,040
So maybe, yeah, just the way that the culture has moved on and away.

590
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,040
Yeah.

591
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,960
And, and for them to open up, it's also took a lot of time and consideration and all sorts

592
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:11,960
of things.

593
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,960
Right.

594
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:19,080
So, so yeah, but sometimes for some people that can be, um, a part that remain hidden

595
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,080
together.

596
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:25,240
So it becomes like not the secret that you can do together with your partner, you know,

597
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:30,000
something that in your nineties, you can kind of like, yeah, remember that.

598
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,080
I remember that time.

599
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,280
I do like that though.

600
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,160
A naughty secret is fun.

601
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:38,160
Yeah.

602
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,160
Yeah.

603
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:45,520
And I guess it, um, we have to find something that works for your relationship because all

604
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,480
relationships are unique.

605
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,080
And um, I mean, who, who are we to judge what works and what not works.

606
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,040
And I think that's the spirit of sex education.

607
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,040
Yeah, exactly.

608
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,040
Yeah.

609
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,560
As a non-judgment, showing what a non-judgmental space could look like.

610
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:00,560
Yeah.

611
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,920
And as long as we follow a certain principles.

612
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:04,920
Yeah.

613
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:05,920
Thank you, Deanne.

614
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,840
You know, you've given us so much to think about, especially for people who are stuck

615
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:15,760
in this rut and are happy to look at these six principles and see how they can better,

616
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,880
I guess, manage, I guess, their relation, current relationship.

617
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,000
And if there is a way to open it up or even if there isn't, you know, I think that's for

618
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,280
each individual couple to decide.

619
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,920
But before we finish, we do want to ask, what's your forties formula?

620
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,840
What is a piece of advice and mantra that you would like to share with our listeners

621
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,840
about how they can thrive during their forties?

622
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,640
Dance to the beat of your own drum.

623
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,280
Oh, I love that.

624
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,280
Yep.

625
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,480
We're all about, we're all about dancing and yeah.

626
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,440
And yeah, keeping it alive.

627
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:49,440
Yeah.

628
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,000
I want to say, I want to add one thing, actually.

629
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:57,760
I mean, in one of your question here, you asked about what advice would you offer to

630
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,400
couple who are struggling with intimacy?

631
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,480
I like this work by Emily Nagoski and I think everyone should read her books.

632
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,080
She just launched a new books and she gave us a very good advice, especially for us in

633
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,120
the long-term relationship.

634
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,560
So she, she say four things.

635
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:23,160
She say, basically in whatever you do, continue to trust and admire each other.

636
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,240
Continue to prioritize sex in your relationship.

637
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:32,840
Despite of all the stuff that happened in life, try to continue to prioritize sex, even

638
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,680
if it's just a conversation level, right?

639
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:43,380
And yes, number three is to listen to the beat of your own sex drum of accepting your

640
00:37:43,380 --> 00:37:50,840
own idea and beliefs as a couple or as personal value about what your sex life should look

641
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:57,080
like instead of accepting other people decree or law, what it looks and doesn't look like.

642
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:04,880
And the last one is co-create situation that makes pleasure accessible to the both of you.

643
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:13,320
And so, so yeah, I think I want to share that and choose to allow especially long-term couple,

644
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,800
not to get panic when the sex dwindling is just normal part of life.

645
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,840
And when that happened, can we go back to that for thinking?

646
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,400
I love the four actionable steps that really, that really resonates with me personally.

647
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,520
And I think that's a great way to look at it because when you have the steps, you know

648
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,840
what needs to be done as opposed to, you know, like, oh, let's try this, let's try this,

649
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,280
go back to the basics.

650
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,400
Yeah, yeah.

651
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,400
And it's hard.

652
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:42,880
I mean, I wish I had this sex education at school that say, Hey, this is, these are the

653
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,600
challenges in a long-term relationship.

654
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:46,600
Don't panic.

655
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,240
There's nothing wrong with you.

656
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,600
It's just how the nature of relationship is.

657
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,800
But then how can we go back to it again?

658
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:55,800
That's great.

659
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:56,800
Because I feel like you're right.

660
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,400
Sex education at school is just like pregnancy.

661
00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,400
Yeah.

662
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,400
Functional.

663
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,400
Yeah.

664
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,960
But actually there's so much more to it because it is about the actual relationship itself.

665
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:06,960
Exactly.

666
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:07,960
Yeah.

667
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,960
And you have to panic when, when, when you don't have the same hot passionate kisses

668
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,960
or hugs and love, like when you were in twenties, you've changed.

669
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,960
I do love a passionate hug.

670
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:19,960
Yeah.

671
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:20,960
Okay.

672
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:21,960
So if that's the case, then that should be continued.

673
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,960
I'm going to take that home with me.

674
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:24,960
Yes.

675
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:25,960
Right.

676
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,960
How can we continue to have a hot passionate hug?

677
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:29,960
Yeah.

678
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,960
Etienne, thank you so much for joining us on the 44 minutes.

679
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:35,960
You're welcome.

680
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:36,960
Thanks.

681
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:37,960
This is Paul, our editor.

682
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:44,560
He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women

683
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,360
on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex.

684
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,960
So Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation?

685
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,440
Hey guys, what's up?

686
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:53,440
Paul here.

687
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:59,640
I kind of think it's pretty exciting to have someone talk about polygamy and you know,

688
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,280
it's not often you have someone to talk about these sort of topics with the relationship

689
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:08,040
dynamics that's behind it, you know, in your sex life and your everyday life, I guess.

690
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,800
Personally I'm pretty happy as a monogamous person and I think going poly is not the way

691
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,800
for me, of course.

692
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:20,640
Anyway, also, Deanne, I really respect your work as both an art therapist and sex therapist

693
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,000
because I myself am a music therapist in training.

694
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:30,000
So it's in many ways, I kind of feel you and it's definitely not an easy line of work to

695
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,000
be in.

696
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,560
So Paul, med respect.

697
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:34,560
Eric, see you.

698
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,520
Guys, you know how much we love coffee?

699
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,040
And if you want to show us some love, you know you can get us one.

700
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,880
Just visit buymeacoffee.com slash the forties formula.

701
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,400
Cheers.

702
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,120
Before we go, please remember to hit subscribe and take a moment to support the forties formula

703
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,520
by leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform.

704
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,320
Your reviews will help us to reach more people and allow us to continue to bring valuable

705
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:00,320
content.

706
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,400
So Deanne, take a moment and it's a free way for you to support the show.

707
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,960
You can also stay updated with the forties formula by following us on Instagram at the

708
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,160
forties formula.

709
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,400
All one word.

710
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,940
We share behind the scenes insights, episode updates and much more.

711
00:41:13,940 --> 00:41:16,620
So please be sure to hit that follow button.

712
00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:18,240
We appreciate your time and support.

713
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,440
Thank you for being part of this community and we'll be back next week for more empowering

714
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,800
conversations with inspiring guests.

715
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:30,800
Bye.

716
00:41:53,800 --> 00:42:12,440
I had a baby three months ago and I feel like by now the process is airtight.

717
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,480
Three months ago.

718
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:16,480
Yeah.

719
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:17,480
Oh, thank you.

720
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,480
You know, and I appreciate that.

721
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:26,400
You know, it's, it's, it's about following a process that is a courageous process because

722
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:31,140
I think there's a lot of fear around this category, like around weightlifting specifically

723
00:42:31,140 --> 00:42:32,680
and pregnancy specifically.

724
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,760
So this book is about putting those two things together as a beautiful marriage rather than

725
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,800
like things that cannot possibly coexist.

726
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:39,800
Yeah.

727
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,000
Um, but yeah, so the book release date is targeted for November.

728
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Please let it happen.

729
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,000
Okay.

730
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,000
That's good.

731
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,000
Congratulations and good luck.

732
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,000
Yeah.

733
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,000
Yeah.

734
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,680
I would say good luck is what I need now.

735
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:52,680
Congratulations later.

736
00:42:52,680 --> 00:43:19,160
Thank you.