I think that's a good message in the sense that you might even have the same results on your genetic test
Yeah, but your behavior and what your lifestyle is can change your path entirely
And I think speaking to what both of you just said, you know, I don't method well
So what dr menca was talking about, right? So sorry, i'm just kidding. You've got that
Uh, can I say it? Is it the mother fucker gene?
Hey, hey and welcome to the 40s formula
You're going to place for insightful discussions on navigating the 40s and thriving in this transformative decade
We're your hosts jasmine and amanda two women that are passionate about exploring the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead
Today we have two incredible guests joining us from neutral nourish a functional medicine clinic based here in singapore
First we have dr menka gupta a visionary in the field of functional medicine and the founder of neutral nourish
Dr menka is passionate about preventing disease and treating individuals holistically by identifying the root causes of chronic illnesses
With her expertise in functional medicine and epigenetics
She's helping countless people improve their longevity and reverse the signs of biological aging
From inflammation and gut health to hormonal imbalances and environmental toxins
She creates personalized programs to manage and prevent chronic disease
Dr menka works with patients globally through telemedicine and digital health with over 20 years of experience
She was also south asia's first ifm certified functional medicine practitioner
Joining her today is dr. Deepika rawley gopalan a functional medicine certified health coach with a phd in genetics
Dr. Deepika is passionate about epigenetics where she explores how lifestyle choices can influence our genes and overall health
And neutral nourish she walks alongside her clients helping them to achieve their health goals
Personalized approaches that focus on food movement sleep and stress management
Using dna testing and the latest science-based tools dr. Deepika empowers her clients to discover what true well-being looks like in both body and mind
Dr Menka, dr. Deepika. Thank you for joining us on the 40s formula today
I am really excited to have you both here. We
Have been waiting for this episode. I feel like autoimmune disease is something that
Takes a while
To sort of take hold, you know, you have these symptoms I was
14 and I was going through a lot of stuff. I had crazy hives. I
Had really messed up periods. I just was gaining weight uncontrollably
But nobody could tell me what was going on
And it wasn't until I was 23 years old. So nine years later was I told that I had hashy batoes
So I was getting all these symptoms and I just couldn't understand what was happening
And it wasn't until I got the diagnosis that I thought oh shit. All of this stuff was connected
So why does it take so long to diagnose autoimmune conditions?
And what should people look out for? Yeah, I mean you're so right about this
You know average it takes around four and a half years for a person to get diagnosed that they have an autoimmune condition
So I think to start with the space symptoms are so non-specific
And the fact that they're you know, applying to all different parts of the body all different organs
So let's say, you know, they could have muscle fatigue. They could have joint pains. They could have joint swelling
Um, they could have uh, you know in terms of some gut symptoms going on some skin symptoms going on
And you know, we have specialists for all of these fields. We have a dermatologist. We have a
You know orthopedic specialist, but the point is at the end of the day
We need somebody who can connect these dots
and say
Maybe test them at an earlier on stage when somebody's coming with non-specific symptoms
The problem is that a lot of times it's said that it's in their head
Or maybe you're very stressed and that's why you're getting these disease spells
So a lot of times it's been uh ignored
As just that it's something, you know, they're worried about but it's nothing is going on physically
But sometimes when the doctor is listening to them as well
Um, they want to do run some lab tests for autoimmune
Um conditions and antibodies and a lot of time we don't those tests are negative
So we don't have like
You know tests which will definitely say you have this condition for example rheumatoid, right? I mean
So many times rheumatoid factor is negative and uh, they have typical symptoms women
In their 40s getting up with stiffness joint pains
Um, but rheumatoid factor is negative and then they're they're hushed away, you know, uh till it's really painful
Um, and that's when you know, they are given medications to help with that
So I think it's number one the symptoms which are so non-specific related to different specialists and different doctors
Number two the ability to diagnose them
Because there are sometimes not specific symptoms
Which are present at the time which may slowly develop over the years
Um, but there are like there are doctors who are now in, you know screening
They are doing an antibodies and a lot of times the this is pre autoimmune
So these anioid antibodies are developing much before they are developing symptoms
And I have patients who are very ill and they are not able to diagnose themselves
Much before they are developing symptoms and I have patients who are very well read and they're like this is high
What can I do?
And so that's what we're talking about prevention, which is something which you discussed about that
You know we get on and work on those antibodies which are not supposed to be there
So earlier on and what's really triggering those antibodies off? So we are getting people who are more, you know
Who are very well educated?
They know how to tackle this. Um
Uh much before the disease actually shows up
What causes autoimmune disease? Um, you know, is it genetics? Is it lifestyle factors?
I know you sort of mentioned stress a little bit earlier on and you're you're saying that you know people are told it's stress
Is it stress? You know
What is it that actually causes?
Yes, so autoimmune disease is actually our immune system to be honest
Um very very unhappy
Not thinking right
And you know hurting our own body tissues
So our innate immune system is there to fight
The viruses the bacteria is the pathogenic organisms
The environmental toxins the sensitive foods, so they are there to fight these
um
Bugs which are around they're not supposed to be fighting against us
Against our own body tissue
So, uh this whole cascade of inflammation which happens and then our own immune system starts targeting our let's say thyroid tissue
That's not really supposed to happen
So that's where um, you know functional medicine comes in
We look at not just the genes. Yes genes have a huge role to play. Um
There are lots of studies being done now which was coming out that you know
Uh, we have human human leukocyte antigen hla. We have il2
We have dnf aip. These are different loci of genes which are which when you test certain autoimmune people
They have these genes which are um, they have these loci which are active in there
But the fact is that you may have the genes and you're living this beautiful healthy life
These genes really don't show up
Um, or sometimes you may not have the genes because there are hundreds of genes and maybe you have some
Or you may don't have some but it's the factors the environmental factors which come in
Um, which can play a huge role. So for many many years we were talking about
genes and environmental factors playing a role in autoimmune disease, but amazingly, um,
Dr
Fasano who's like our teacher and our mentor in institute for functional medicine?
He came out with research in 2000 which were which he saw that these autoimmune patients
There is a marker called zonulin which is high in their body
And then he traced zonulin back to the fact that zonulin actually cause those tight junctions in your intestine and wall to open up
So then he started connecting the dots that all these patients have high zonulin
So he brought the third factor in which is increased intestinal permeability, which is all about your gut health
Um, is that is that leaky gut by any? Yeah, exactly. Okay. So that's leaky gut
So now it's very well researched and dr. Fasano
He's Harvard University head of department in their nutrition and he's been researching this for many years
And that's how we've learned the functional medicine way of treating all these working on all these three factors right from environment
leaky gut
um and genes to actually improve the expression and not have autoimmune disease or prevent it
So dr. Deepika is our lady who actually deals with the whole lifestyle and all those triggers
Um, and also the genes which she helps our patients with so well
You just use the word trigger, right and that reminds me one of my favorite quotes about the interplay of genetics and health
Right, which is your genetics loads the gun, but your lifestyle pulls the trigger
And so exactly what you said like you can't control your genes, but you sure can control your lifestyle and the expression of those genes
Yes
Yeah
and so I guess what what you're saying is then that it doesn't doesn't matter if you have the genetic predisposition
As long as you are managing or living a healthier lifestyle, you may not be susceptible to
Those conditions so are there specific can like specific factors or specific conditions that could then
open up and lead to
Autoimmunity for example the genetics the lifestyle is there and you know, you're saying the gut health
It does does stress also play a role in that as well. So increase intestinal permeability
There are many factors and that's when I sit down with my patient for an hour
We're really exploring with them that what triggered that leaky gut
So we are definitely you know in women around 40s. We are looking a lot at hormones
And it's not just the cortisol dhea cortisone. It's their
Estrogen that's progesterone their testosterone their neurotransmitters melatonin is not enough. They're not sleeping well
We also look into serotonin and dopamine and if that's not enough and that's causing
You know lack of pleasure lack of motivation and that can all impact their gut health
But then there's a huge thing about environmental toxins about gut microbiome
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Akisi wellness.com and now back to the show about latent infections
CMV and EBV so really finding out with this patient where are their triggers?
And if you start working on them and not just putting in the protocol
But actually helping that change with the five pillars of health which dr. Deepika does is very helpful
I think that Dr Menka once she kind of maps out the underlying causes and as she said the underlying causes can be
from uh, you know them having a sad diet what I call not even just a sad american but sad all around the world
Thank you
Very triggered
So, you know so whether it is a diet full of processed food and uh, you know
Refined foods and high sugar and trans fats and you know
Everything that's going to feed the bad bacteria in the gut or whether it is food sensitivities that come out of
The tests that we do or whether it is
Anti-nutrients, you know like an anti-nutrient for me the one that I think has come out the most significantly in many clients
Especially with thyroid issues and all the hormonal issues is stress
So where the gut is concerned?
Uh, you know, I always call stress an anti-nutrient because that seems to trigger leaky gut as much as gluten
You know which has gliadin and which can then turn to this whole sonilin cascade happening
Can you define that for us anti-nutrient? Okay. So if you think of nutrients right in terms of food
What does that represent? You're looking at phytonutrients that come from plant foods, right? The the plethora of
Of rainbow diversity from non-starchy veggies, whether it's broccoli whether it is eggplant tomatoes
I mean we have nature's given us that bountiful
Amount of phytonutrients and then you have proteins clean lean proteins whether they're plant or animal sources
You have fats healthy fats. We don't want the trans fats
largely poly and
Uh more unsaturated fats with some healthy saturated fats as well
And so all this is what we call these are called nutrients fiber rich foods being able to bring in even enough water
So if you think of these in terms of food, right?
What else in terms of if now we know that the gut lining when it gets, uh, you know
Kind of gets leaky the gut lining is is where your immune system is sitting and that's what's getting targeted and kind of going
I mean kind of goes into stranger danger mode, right?
So what is it that you really are looking at beyond food that's not serving your gut?
So when you have high levels of stress, you have imbalanced stress hormones like cortisol and cortisol can
imbalanced cortisol triggers the gut lining as much as gluten or processed food
Right and in that gut lining you also have serotonin which is a neurotransmitter being produced. So it's all a kind of bi-directional
intersectional uh intelligence to the body that gets disturbed and disrupted
So that's why I was talking about anti-nutrients not just in the area of food
But also in the area of too much exercise lack of exercise lack of sleep
lack of motivation
Not being able to put enough stress reducing techniques and not sometimes for people not just you know
Not having a sense of value meaning and purpose. I've seen it so many times with women who are in their 40s
they've dedicated their lives to their family and they
start you know kind of going into a phase where the kids are leaving and then they have an empty nester kind of syndrome and
They go into a sense of perceived threat
What's the reason for my existence and that kind of causes a drip drip drip of cortisol?
Which is as inflammatory to the gut as processed food and it's funny
Isn't it because I feel like what could be stressful for me may not necessarily be stressful for you
And that could be the physical activity that could be the emotional the mental whatever it is
And I think it's just how you deal with it. So sort of based on that
How can genetics play a role in personalized treatment?
Okay, so when we look at I'm we're kind of addressing autoimmune here, right? So
If you if I can just talk about uh,
Personalizing these plans from a basic up to something which is very targeted
Right, so if someone comes in and they have autoimmune issues you start off with maybe just an elimination plan
Where we talk about a whole body detox not just with foods
But again looking at stress factors looking at all the five pillars as we spoke about just now
Right and then with dr menka prescribing maybe a food sensitivity test. We kind of target
Food sensitivities further so taking out foods that may not be suiting them that are actually okay for everyone else
But not okay for them, right and then you can target it further into an advanced plan
Now over and beyond that if you find if dr menka
Asks them to do a dna test and you find that they have what we call methylation issues
Or they have a you know a gst snip a genetic snip
Which was which is going to interfere with the master antioxidant in the body glutathione being produced
Right, then you have to be able to personalize that first which dr menka will take care with supplements
But that but in terms of lifestyle being able to put in foods b12 and b9 rich foods being able to really
Reduce stress but find out what their triggers are
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Now back to the chat
Why is it that they're going into the sense of too much cortisol or too little cortisol?
Is it that their night and day is getting switched around?
For many people that's what they do. Others live on a sense of high alert
You know, they are too busy all the time and they're like they're tired but wired
And in other cases a sense of threat emotional. So what is the underlying trigger?
You know, sometimes emotionally it's you know
uncertainty
Novel circumstances sense of threat to sense of self
Losing a sense of control. So really being able to target that and see what's going on
So when we talk about epigenetics, it's it's your methylation or your histone modification or your micro rna
Which are basically playing a huge role on the phenotype expression of the genes
So if you can modify that through epigenetics through all the factors she's she just mentioned about
You can actually go a long way in reducing inflammation on autoimmune process in the body
so I
Epigenetics is hugely coming out
In terms of prevention of autoimmune diseases
Um, and i'm very excited about how this will go on further because we just started learning
In med school, I wasn't taught about it at all
But now last 12 doing this work, you know, really finding out what is this person?
You know genes can tell us that you may be gluten sensitive. You might get lactose intolerant
You are very predisposed to inflammation
And based on that you make plans you can really modify
Um the outcome of the expression of those genes
It's funny because I think we've both had a circle dna test done haven't we?
And on there it like on mine
It it basically says that i'm carb sensitive and it's quite weird because I've pretty much I think for the last seven years
I've been low carbing just because I feel it makes me feel better
And then when the the genetic test showed that I was like, oh it kind of makes sense because I I know
I can definitely feel that I feel better without you know, eating too many carbs and I guess you know
Like the gluten sensitivity and all that stuff. It kind of does show
That there is an issue but interestingly mine also shows that i'm carb sensitive
But i'm i'm on a very specific diet because i'm an athlete and I i'm working on hypertrophy, right?
So i'm working on muscle gain
And so my diet right now is 40 carbs and I just raised that actually can you imagine me on 40?
Even though my genetic test says you're carb sensitive
Because of my epigenetics and the ways I live my life. I actually need more carbohydrates to achieve specific goal, right?
So whether or not i'm carb sensitive
So I think that's a good message in the sense that you might even have the same results on your genetic test
But your behavioral behavior and what your lifestyle is can change your path entirely
And I think speaking to what both of you just said, you know, I don't methylate well
So what dr menca was talking about, right? So so i'm just gonna you've got that
Can I say is that the mother fucker change?
And you know the way you were speaking about you know over time all these like dr menca was saying i've done this for so long
It's been an unconscious kind of uh
Leaning because it made me feel better
So the moment I kind of put in like because my husband doesn't do that much meditation. He doesn't do so much stretching
He doesn't do so much balancing but I my body needs it
And you know just looking at the way that you can target exercise
Personalized exercise personalized foods, you know as you said personalized like you've brought an exercise at a different level which suits you
Yeah, you know and then sleeping able to prioritize sleep for someone like me really making sure my sleep wake cycle is in place
And as I said just always being able to align with a sense of value meaning and purpose and sometimes I think that's why
I've come to this field. So it's amazing how something which was
Possibly what I would have viewed as a weakness has turned out to be my greatest strength
Yeah, it's amazing. So that's the tweak of how you can transmute something like methylation
into
Working for you once you make your lifestyle changes epigenetics just to sort of go back
Can you just explain to our listeners what methylation means and what?
You know what that means in terms of what that mfg is
Okay, so
methylation actually is uh, uh, you have mthfr which is an enzyme that works on dietary folate
To convert it into methyl folate, which is a compound that is very fundamental
to
Myriad functions in the body whether it's your mitochondria the powerhouses of the cell working well to release energy
And to detox and all your detoxification pathways, so it's so involved so so kind of integral to that
So if this enzyme is kind of not working properly, you can imagine what's going to happen
You're going to end up with fatigue. You're going to end up with toxins kind of being held on
So I had fatigue headaches muscle aches and all of this and I have to say after I worked
Uh with dr. Mehta worked with me as a patient and really targeted that and once we were able to make all the epigenetic changes first
Being able to really bring in the foods which were therapeutic for me
balance out my meals actually get rid of a
Fasting cycle that I had it was a very extended fasting cycle
So these are the changes that I made where food was concerned
Right and also supplementing after making all these changes and the result is today
I have a body that feels pleasant a mind that feels clear
and
Optimal energy flow so I can show up for myself do what I love and be there for my family and my loved ones
And what what more is there in life?
Nothing
That is the 40s
I am came across an article. I think it's a very recent article. I don't know if it was out late last year or early this year
but it stated that
women have a more
Susceptible to autoimmune because of a chromosome
The way the chromosomes are the xx chromosome as opposed to the xy chromosome. Can you explain that to us a little bit if you're
So yeah, i've been following that research as well
So what they did was they tested women with autoimmune disease and they tested men with clinfetters syndrome, which is
Which has got the super x
And these men were also predisposed to autoimmune disease
so what they found out that
certain gene loci in the x chromosome if
Women because they have two x chromosomes. Sometimes they are more
Predisposed because a lot of these autoimmune diseases are found in the same loci
So they tested that with men who also have the super x chromosome
So that's one of the reasons in terms of genetics why women are more predisposed not saying that men don't
But women because of this have more predisposition
It's crazy. Isn't it?
I would explain why you tend to hear more women suffering from autoimmune conditions as opposed to men
Yeah, if the if i'm not mistaken other stats at 80 percent of people who have
autoimmunity
Women, is that correct? I've read around 60 to 80 percent. Yeah
Yeah, that's crazy. But a majority no matter what right like yeah
I'm serious and I think one of the first things you said in this in this chat was about how you know women are being dismissed
And told that it's in their head and that and isn't it interesting right that the majority of us have this
meaning minority of men have it and therefore the
Predominantly male medical community is telling us it's in our head and I think that that is
Yeah, it's such a powerful message for women who have consistently been told this about anything that they're feeling
You know my own mother was told this about her postpartum depression that it was all in her head
Just go home to your baby. You'll be fine
And isn't it interesting right that guess what this is an exclusively female problem, right?
Yeah, so yeah, I think this is the interesting dive with the with latest health science
You know where you can really target and personalize and see the facts for what they are and then make such specialized changes
That you can really help yourself. Yeah, and you've got that point out really all the medical research
Everything is for men
Like my man
So, yeah
but I think
We are in the research field working towards includes including more women in the studies and because
Even sports for that matter which you're doing
Nobody takes care of women are cycling and when would be the best time to for them to run that marathon or do that sport?
Activity because the way our hormones change maybe there's a point in your cycle when you're best suited for that
But again, nobody's research says right there is such coming slowly in this whole field part of my work is on women
That are pregnant and postpartum weightlifting and there is no consensus on that because no one studies that because everyone wants
Exactly. So up to this point, I mean we have like very you know, really anecdotal studies
There was a study of like 14 cross-fitting moms
Well based on these 14 super fit women here's what we know
You know, but it's like we don't have the type of data that we need to get these messages out to women more
You know at the population level. Yes
True. Do you find that people tend to sort of functional health and functional medicine when conventional medicine can't help answer their questions?
And also how did you both?
Find yourself in this functional medicine field
Yeah, so I think um when they do get a diagnosis, um, whatever medications or biologics they are on
They have a huge role to play in symptom relief in
Getting them remission
Uh not, you know reducing inflammation if they have ra then not getting the joints destroyed
So they do get a lot of relief
But the problem is that a lot of times these biologics or medications don't work for everybody
So I see that a lot when medicine is not helping
I also see a lot when they have huge side effects
Obviously, these are medications which are affecting your immune system
They do come up with a lot of side effects. Um, and then they don't want to continue it because of the side effects
Um, and also it's huge financial cost
A lot of these medications we are talking about
tens and thousands of dollars per year on medic on just helping
This autoimmune condition and now what i'm seeing is a lot of um
My patients are children
It's not just 30 year old 40 year old woman term and turning up in your clinic. These are 10 year old
Children who have let's say rare conditions like dermatomyositis. It's living for them as hell unless and until they don't take those medications
But i'm also getting a lot who is looking for, you know a different approach
than always
Taking a medication which is obviously helping them
but what else can I do to maybe reduce the dosage or prevent this from happening because my mother has hashimoto or
What can I do that? Um, you know, um, I ultimately get off the medications and take care of my disease
Of just naturally so that's where functional medicine plays a huge role and we generally slowly go in
Heal their body inside out see the medication dosage is falling. I've had great results thyroid hashimoto
So antibodies literally falling down from thousands to 50s and 80s better still the symptoms gone. Yeah, they're on medication
Thyroxine but still have brain fog fatigue hair fall skin dry constipation anxiety
But you work on the root causes all these symptoms are going away
Yeah, there's a doctor and I wish I could give him proper credit
So I apologize for who said this originally but it was like there's two types of medications ones that have side effects and ones that don't work
There is no solution that's medicated that is without any side effects at all, right?
So there's always you know, complementary solutions that yeah, you know might be better
Yeah, and for me it coming in was very interesting
So I was this you know, working as a gyne very conventional medicine doctor had a
Tunnel vision, you know anybody who would come in
I was just focusing on uterus and ovaries and tubes and I really wasn't what they're about
What are her stress hormone levels like? What are her stress hormones?
Like what micronutrient deficiencies does she have does she have amalgam filling sitting in her mouth?
but now
You know this
Aspect that my mother was quite sick
It's like we're talking about she had all the cardio metabolic disorders right from cholesterol diabetes
Hypertension and cardiovascular disease and she also had ulcerative colitis and hypothyroidism
So, you know we can keep on increasing dosages insulin
and medications, but she was still not getting relief
So that's when I was like what else you know, I I am a doctor I should help her
um and
Literally, I had to sort out and find out what are the ways and I got into functional medicine
We did dna testing we did gut microbiome testing. We did food sensitivity testing
And all of that when you slowly work with a 70 year old lady
You know slowly get all those changes in it actually gave her a lot of relief
um, so that was my functional medicine journey where I was like, you know what I need to
Take this up. This is so exciting. This is so interesting and this is how chronic health diseases should be dealt with
Um, so that was my beginning it was 12 years ago now
And dr. Deepika, how about you? How what got you into this journey? Right?
So I hold a phd in genetics. So I was for a large part of my
Study my academics buried in a lab looking at how genes cause disease
and when uh
My daughter was in her late teens. She got an immune kind of condition
And I I mean she was subjected to so many antibiotics
Because the doctors just didn't know one wasn't working
They tried another and it became really bad her condition and ultimately as I was looking for answers
I went down the path of many
Alternate routes, but I always came to stumbling blocks because they didn't one is either they were not bedded in science
Or they were like they they were so kind of stringent where the expert was sitting there and giving
You know kind of tools that we couldn't really understand and then I attended a session
Uh held with the you know, dr. Menka was then a couple of other specialists and as I was uh listening to her
I realized because she spoke so much about the underlying root causes
And literally as she spoke I could start
Identifying them and so I went I met her and then and that's when our journey started
You know, so I worked with her for a while and then I upscaled into mind body medicine as well as functional medicine
Health coaching and dna testing and now today that's what I do with her
And I must say what's really very close to my heart is functional medicine health coaching. It's really made me realize
I mean sometimes I think that when you sit and hold space for someone
and you
Listen to their story and you have dr. Menka so we have all the reports there
But then you turn the mic over to them and they start sharing you're actually like a mirror
and when you start hearing their story, it's
Easier to pick up their why?
Why is it that they want to make this change? What is it that they are really looking for?
and
Over time as you start making these changes
These step-by-step changes that ask that they are inspired to make and you look for barriers
And you you're able to do this you find that like over a period of time
They're actually able to realize what good health feels like and that is
Really? I think um
It's a game changer
So I think it really is about marrying the tools of
Uh hardcore functional medicine if I can call it that
Along with all the soft skills of empathy and compassion and listening and you know bringing bringing
All that to the table and realizing that at the end of the day fundamentally
It is their lifestyle. That's medicine. It's them as they make those changes
That's what changes the body's intelligence, right?
And then you supplement them to help further
you know, so
Uh, it's a beautiful journey. Can I just ask a quick follow-up? Yeah, what happened with your daughter's condition?
Okay. Now this is I mean, I'm aware of privacy issues. I'm not saying much but I will say one thing
That it was very telling she had like gut issues and all of that. Okay, and while she was under my watch
So this is where the soft skills come in. I one of the biggest things that I pick I can pick up about myself now
Because I carry the warrior gene
Okay, so I have a warrior gene my tendency with my family has been not just a helicopter
But my body language has literally been one of anxiousness and fear
And as dr. Menka kind of put a protocol out for her. We had all the testing we had everything
She didn't make many changes
Okay, and nothing changed nothing changed and it was when she went away
To London and she was down. That's when she like now she calls me up and she's like my guess what?
I've gone sugar-free, you know
And I'm feeling so so much better because now that I'm sugar-free. I really feel it helps me when I get my periods
You know, I don't have those mood swings. She's making the connections. I love that. I really love that
Like yeah
The age at which she was diagnosed with the condition
Yeah, that's why I asked what the follow-up was because I was like this is there's so many factors in there
I can't pubertsence and just teenage angst and you know all these things all together. It's wonderful to hear
Yeah, and I can't tell you that was the time I I actually went into mindfulness
And I think it came a little too late because I think when she left home, she was able to make these changes but with my
Family at home. I've realized what it means and with clients what it means to actually take a step step back and just go into
deep listening and reflecting mode
Because when that moment of realization comes for them and even if it's such a small step
Whatever that step may be it may be something as simple as saying
I don't want to snack after dinner and they do that for a month brush their teeth after dinner
I've had clients who've come in and said that's all I'm going to do for one week
I'm just going to brush my teeth. So that's my my brain understands
That I'm not going to eat after dinner
So I have a good intermittent fast of at least 12 hours
And when you do that for a week and you come back and you realize wow, I'm really feeling better because I wake up in the morning
feeling not so kind of bloated
So that those aha moments is what I really you know, it starts making you realize lifestyle is fundamentally your medicine
Yeah
Definitely and and it's it's just incredible, you know, because I think when you are younger, you're just like, okay
Just give me whatever pills
I remember when I first started taking thyroxine someone said to me, oh my god, you're going to be so skinny afterwards
I was like, yeah, this is gonna be amazing and then nothing happened and I was like hold on a minute
Why has there been no change?
Because my lifestyle didn't change and you need to be able to make those decisions and when you're ready
Make those decisions yourself. Like you mentioned that, you know, you were helping your 70 year old mother
My dad has got some issues now, but the thing is I don't think he wants to change and
As a child or even my mom we can't force him because he has to want to be able to do it for himself
And I think figuring out your why like you mentioned is going to be sort of key within your journey to heal
true
Thank you so much for for joining us today
It's been absolutely amazing having you both here and hearing you talk about your life and your life
Here and hearing your expertise
But before we finish we do want to ask one final question and that's what's your 40s formula
What word of advice or mantra would you like to share with our listeners about how they can thrive within their 40s?
Thank you
Want me to go? Okay. I have it
So I have to say that i'm in my fabulous 50s
So you're the best position to look back and let us know
Yeah, yeah. So for me it's I actually came up with an acronym, which I know that dr
Menka's husband arun loves
Which has been I think my mantra which is aim
So awareness so first being able to have a sense of non-judgment non-judgmental
compassionate awareness
As to the space where the stage of change where you're at
This is where i'm at with that sense of acceptance because this is you're starting from this point, right?
and then I for
Intention, what is my intention? So the moment that you know, you kind of make that tweak into
Intentionally living with purpose being able to align with curiosity
Life starts opening up for you
and then m
making
Literally making a action step. I mean, it's not really good grammar, but
Being able to make a goal step
So actually putting your body and your mind where your mouth is or your where your mind is like literally taking that step forward
To start making those changes. So step by step change leads to long term
You know sustainability in terms of body's intelligent and the mind's intelligence shifting and if I can end with three f's
It would be ultimately having a fit body
free mind
A full heart, okay for it for it and a flowing
Spirit where you live with a sense of joy for yourself and your family and your loved ones and the world at large
I love that 40s formula. Yeah
Yeah, i'll say two lines which I think has been my mantra uh since I got into my 40s
Um, so look forward in life. The past has gone
Today is a present
Uh make the most out of it. So I think just live in the present
You know live the best life here again. That's incredible. And I think everyone everyone needs to take that on board for sure
So thank you again. It was wonderful
Thanks so much. Thank you so much
This is paul our editor
He's a 25 year old unmarried singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex
So paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation? Hey guys, what's up paul here? So for this episode
You know dr manca and dr depica. They kind of talked about autoimmune disease hush emotes
And the thing that resonated to me the most I guess would be the five pillars of health, you know
physical health sleep habits mental health social health and
Very importantly as well nutrition. So to which i'm kind of guilty with, you know
Sleeping habits because i'm pretty poor sleeping habits and I guess
Nutrition in in the way I kind of eat what I want because oh this is kind of bad
But i'm not really very healthy eating in the first place
So yeah, I think I guess it's something for me to work on, you know in the whole holistic
Sense of health I guess so catch you guys in the next one. See you
Guys, you know how much we love coffee and if you want to share some love, you know, you can get us one
Just visit buymeacoffee.com
slash the 40s formula
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Bye
How about you two how did you get together
The story comes up every single time. So we're part of a networking group launch pad. I don't know if you're familiar with it and
We're both in the same field. We're both nutrition coaches and
Okay, and we met up for coffee. We had this great vibe
The coffee like went way over like we had a lot of each other an hour, you know
Because it was one of those like let's get a coffee. Okay, we'll have a coffee with this person
And then it was like, oh actually we definitely have something to talk about and we talked and talked and talked and then it was
Just so clear that you know, though we are in the same industry
We have different perspectives and we have different backstories
So we thought this would be cool that we can connect our shared expertise
But come at it from two different angles and that's kind of how the you know
Main host co-hosting of all that we trade off main host co-hosting duties
So that one of us can just truly be here as an active listener
Yep, you know and just really interact with you know with the guests in the conversation
And then one of us is obviously the main interviewer. Yeah, and sort of directing the conversation and but yeah
Yeah
so that's that yeah, it was just something that
It felt like we had a good vibe and we thought it would work to get women who have you know expertise and specialists in
in particular areas
For women's health and not just you know, like eat and exercise right?
You know, it was more to it than that like let's let's give women tools and specifics and things they can do actionably
You know rather than just like have a chat about health, right?
Which we're all marginally interested in but what we really want right? We're all busy
It's like we want takeaways and we want to know what we can do today. What's in our power?
Exactly. So hopefully we provide that with our episodes. That's what we try to do