It's like we call the power nap.
You take just like a shot of caffeine and espresso
because it takes about 20 minutes in your system
to kick in.
So you have your 20 minute nap.
When you wake up, you have the caffeine in your body
and you have this little rest.
That's quite powerful.
Oh my gosh.
This is so wonderful to hear this from you
because this is what I do.
And I was like, is it wrong?
Is it right?
But it is valid folks.
Yeah, yeah.
Helen said so.
And I need to tell my husband three hour naps
are not a thing.
Can you stop with that please?
Stop with that please.
Hey, hey, and welcome to the 40s Formula.
Your go to place for insightful discussions
on navigating the 40s and thriving
in this transformative decade.
We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda.
Two women that are passionate about their 40s
and want to be a part of it.
We're here to help you with your 40s.
And we're here to help you with your 40s.
Jasmine and Amanda, two women that are passionate about
exploring the challenges and adventures
that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.
Helen Peckman is a certified health coach
specializing in women's wellness and sleep.
As a child, Helen suffered from recurrent insomnia.
And this experience fuels her passion towards sleep
and understanding how important good sleep and rest can be
for improving life and personal growth.
In London, Helen studied extensively
in the field of sleep disorders
and completed certified yoga training
which focused on sleep recovery.
Later in New York, she became a certified health coach
and researched the influences of psychodynamics
on sleep and wellness.
It was during this period she began
her exploration of human design.
She founded Sleep Body Mind with a vision
to help women unlock better sleep
and improve their overall wellbeing.
Helen takes a holistic approach to sleep and wellness
focusing on harnessing the power of her client's unique
mental and physical characteristics
through the framework of human design.
Hi Helen, we're so glad you can make it here today.
Hi guys, I'm so happy to be here with you.
Thank you for joining us.
So sleep is a topic of contention in our house.
It's like who's had the most sleep, who's more tired.
And I know for me personally,
if I don't get eight hours of sleep or more,
I feel like shit and I'm a total bitch.
So why is sleep so important
and why does it impact not only our physical body
but also our mental health as well?
Okay, well sleep it's actually,
it's the most important things you can do for your health.
Like so physical health, mental health.
So it plays a huge part.
Physically, this is during our sleep,
this is where our body repairs.
You know, the muscle repairs, the cells repairs.
We restore energy during the sleep.
So all these things happen during the deep sleep.
And then emotionally, this is where as well
during the REM sleep, memory consolidation happened.
So basically all the things you have learned during the day
get reorganized in your brain
and help you to process things
and you know, remembering things for the next day
and things like that.
So sleep play a massive thing in our body
and emotional state.
But it plays a role in everyday life,
in our lifestyle, our relationship with our partner,
with our kids, with our friends at work,
with our productivity, with our mood swings.
Everything is related to a good night's sleep basically.
What factors can affect sleep?
Many.
So first of all, like medical point of view,
like if you have like sleep apnea, for instance,
like people like this who have like,
they don't have good breathing at night
and they snore a lot, this can really affect their sleep.
So they have to go see a doctor for that.
Then you have illness.
Obviously if you're sick, you're not gonna sleep well.
If you take medicine, drugs, you know, things like that.
Then stress, stress impact our sleep, lifestyle.
What we eat, how we exercise, if we do or not.
Do we get enough daylight?
You know, kids.
Kids sleep by themselves.
And as women, our almonds really,
it's actually for us as women, it's not easy
because our sleep is never perfect.
Naturally our body go through a different cycle.
So we can't get a good night's sleep every day of the month.
And we'll just have to be aware of that
when we have a period, our sleep get disturbed,
body temperature rise up, so which often wake us
like wake up in the middle of the night.
Then it's pregnancy, which also can affect our sleep.
And then there's premenopause.
So it's just like, it never ends for us.
There's always something.
But that's, yeah, that's the key factor.
And I would say the most important one as well
is your body clock.
Sleep regularly.
People don't realize that if they don't go to sleep
at night at the same time, every night they wake up
at the same time, it will really affect your sleep rhythm.
And that is, it's a big one because you need to build
what we call sleep drive during the day.
So if you go to bed at different time,
your body just doesn't build enough sleep drive
and it's like all dysregulated,
it doesn't understand when you should be going to sleep.
So that's an important one as well.
And again, what you're saying sounds so familiar
to what I'm going through with sleep training, right?
So I have an 11 week old and we call it sleep pressure.
Right, so you have to build enough sleep pressure
for that baby to understand that he's gotta go to sleep
and stay to sleep, you know?
And if you don't do, you know, for the babies, obviously,
if you don't follow the routine and feed and stay active
during the right times of day,
then you won't build the sleep pressure.
Same thing for adults.
I always say sleep training is a great thing to go through
as a mother because it reminds you to really keep,
take care of your own sleep hygiene as well.
Exactly, and it's so funny how we,
we all want our kids to sleep well.
We all can all agree on that one, but for whatever reason,
we don't think the same things should apply to us.
You know, it's just because also how society
have been picturing sleep, you know,
of a waste of time, you have to be more productive.
You know, if you rest in the day,
you can be seen as a bit of a lazy person.
So it's all these things like sleep when we're dead.
Yeah, sleep when you're dead.
Well, that'll come early.
Exactly, sleep was always been like, you know,
that's the last thing on the list, you know?
So it's, things are changing, which is good.
But yeah, I think many people still have this thing in their,
you know, on top of, you know, at the back of their head.
But yeah, you know, if I, I could cut a bit on my sleep
and I do squeeze more work or, you know,
spend more time, you know, watching things,
or whatever it is, right?
But yeah, things are changing, which is good.
Oh yeah, not for me.
Like I know sort of come nine, nine thirty,
TV's going off.
Even if we're midway through a movie,
I'll make my husband switch it off because I'm like,
we need to get to bed now,
because I do really prioritize sleep.
For me, like I mentioned at the start, you know,
I know how I feel when I don't get enough.
So I really want to make sure that I am getting
the amount that I need.
So I read that there's a 40% higher chance of women
having insomnia over the course of their lifetime
in comparison to men.
And you know, that just seems like quite a staggering
number, doesn't it?
And I was wondering like, how can women who are really
suffering from things like insomnia or sleep disturbances
help themselves in making sure that they get
a better night's sleep?
Okay, well, and the thing is,
women needs 20 minutes more sleep than men.
I knew it.
So that's the thing as well.
20 minutes, I'll take it.
That's my nap.
There's no more mental activation for us with like
multitasking, mental load, and like,
we just carry so much that we actually need
more rest.
So there's different kind, with my clients,
I've got different kind of issues,
like women that struggle to fall asleep at night,
busy mind, stress.
Women that fall asleep quickly,
but then wake up around 3 a.m.
and then can't seem to come back to sleep.
And then I've got clients that they do have seven hours
of sleep, but they still feel tired the next day.
So a thing as well, when we talk about sleep,
yes, we talk about like getting between seven and nine hours,
but the quality is what is almost more important.
That's why I keep like telling my client,
numbers, okay, you know, of course we don't want you
to get five or six hours,
but if you don't get enough deep sleep, REM sleep,
you're gonna feel crap the next day.
That's the reality of it, because you definitely need
at least minimum, say, an hour of deep sleep,
between one hour and one and two hours, that's ideal,
except for REM sleep, around two hours of REM sleep.
And if you don't get that,
and if you're constantly on light sleep,
you can actually sleep for eight hours,
and be a light sleep most of the night,
you're not gonna feel good.
So that's an important thing.
And so how do we get good deep sleep for us women?
I would say good sleep start from the moment you wake up.
Don't expect to sleep well at night
if you don't do the right thing there in the day.
You know, it's like many people go through all the day
doing their things, they don't think too much,
and then they go to bed, and they're like,
okay, now I'm switch off.
Well, no, it doesn't really work like that.
For some people it does, you know,
they're the lucky one, they're good sleeper,
but for us it means that going to bed at the same time,
waking up at the same time, even on weekends,
that's why we have, that's the hardest part,
that's why we call what we have like the Sunday insomnia,
or the weekend jet lag,
because we tend to go to bed much later,
and then, you know, we sleep in in the morning,
and our body clock starts to switch.
So it's hard then on Sunday to go back to your 9.30,
if you've been going at 11.30 on Friday and Saturday night.
So no, so try to keep it the same schedule,
and I will say, even if you go to bed later,
which is totally fine, we all have a life,
try to wake up at the same time,
which, I mean, it works if you have kids though.
Yeah, I was gonna be my question,
I was like, yeah, no, regardless of bedtime,
the morning is the same.
So if you're really tired,
then you could definitely have a little nap,
but yeah, so try it regularly with that,
and then it's like, move your body,
like just movement, people don't move enough.
Especially like some, you know,
some with working from home, which is great,
because you can be like, some people will be like,
oh, I can squeeze in some exercise during lunchtime,
but many don't, they don't even walk to their office.
So they actually like, you know, stay inside
and don't move enough.
The body, they don't get to bright lights in the morning,
go outside, take the sun, don't wear your glasses,
your sunglasses, because it's gonna block that.
So just making sure you get enough, eat healthy.
I mean, you know, as much as you can,
don't eat, you know, heavy meal at night, spicy food.
Again, spicy food, depends on some culture,
some culture, you used to eat spicy food,
it's not gonna do much to you, you know,
but what you want is your body to really does its job
during the night, which is restoring.
Like, it doesn't wanna be processing like your meats
you have been eating at night and things like that
too late, you know, so you wanna give him the job
is just like restoring the body.
So, and when it comes to, yeah, stress,
I wanted to go into stress because a big reason
why people don't sleep well is body stress.
So we're trying to address stress during the day.
Because if you wait at night, it's always like this
when you're about to lie down and everything's come up.
So, or trying to address stress during the day,
whatever, like meditation, breathing exercise,
journaling, writing down things, whatever,
but just don't keep things at night.
Yeah, that's, you know, that's more or less,
I would say that's the sleep hygiene
that we're trying to get, avoiding alcohol at night,
especially not too much caffeine.
I'm trying to tell my client not after 12 p.m.
Again, there's people that sleep very, very well
with like an espresso at 10 p.m.
Exactly, so that's why I'm saying like sleep hygiene,
it's great, it's a good baseline, basic thing,
but not everything applies to everyone.
You need to know, you know, how alcohol,
definitely not good for anyone, to be honest.
You know, some people will be like,
yeah, it helps me to fall asleep.
Yes, you have this, you know, sedative thing,
but it would definitely damage your deep sleep,
you know, interfere with like the quality of your deep sleep,
so you don't want that,
you're not gonna feel refreshed the next day.
So yeah, that's pretty much the good sleep hygiene
that you can, you know, do.
It's funny, because you mentioned that, you know,
eating too, like a bigger meal too close to bedtime
can disrupt your sleep, and I've definitely noticed
that if I do eat closer to bedtime,
like say I've gone out, my HRV drops drastically.
So you know, I can definitely feel that.
So sometimes, obviously it's beyond your control,
but yeah, I definitely feel rubbish
if I eat too close to bedtime.
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Probably juggling life in your 40s.
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And now, back to the show.
And HRV just for listeners that aren't familiar,
that's your heart rate variability,
and you want that as high as possible.
And similarly, you want your resting heart rate overnight
to be as low as possible.
And that's why I'm so glad that you brought up, Helen,
the effect of alcohol,
because there is no minimum dose.
Once you introduce alcohol,
it is messing with your resting heart rate.
It is messing with your sleep.
So there is no kind of safe minimum.
It's just try to eliminate as much as you can.
Yeah, it's just been a way of that thing.
Oh yeah, I forgot the other one is obviously electronics,
but it's a funny one,
because obviously if you have electronics at night,
with your phone and things like that,
it can stop the production.
It delays the production of melatonin.
But also I would say for stress and things like that,
people that are on their phone,
and they're watching news and things like that,
it does have an impact.
But it's difficult for us women,
especially if we have children,
we'll have what we call a bedtime procrastination.
Because all this time that we really haven't had for ourselves,
we just wanna have that before going to bed.
And I will say that is the hardest to,
you have to be strict with yourself.
It's all about controlling yourself,
and be like, okay, what do I want?
Because in the moment, you'll be like,
I will be so nice to watch one more episode,
or to chill on my phone.
But think of the next day.
And especially if you have young kids,
it's a short part of your time,
just being aware of that.
You will have more time when then you can sleep better
and everything, but it's really like controlling yourself
with this kind of thing.
You mentioned naps,
and I'm keen to find out is there a right way,
or even a wrong way to nap?
So nap has a bad reputation in the sleep industry.
So for me, this is where I will necessarily bring,
I don't know if I can do it, human design there.
It really depends of who you are.
And some people, for napping for them,
it's very restorative, and it's really good actually.
It will help them with their sleep.
And for some people, it will actually destroy their sleep.
So when we talk about nap,
is we're trying to keep it to 20 minutes max.
You wanna stay in stage one and two of light sleep.
You don't wanna go into stage three of deep sleep,
because if you wake up around that time,
you're gonna feel groggy.
It's gonna be awful feeling for you,
and that will affect your sleep drive as well.
So you don't wanna go there.
So you just try to keep it for 10 to 20 minutes,
if you can, early, I would say between 12 and two,
depending on what time you go to bed, obviously.
And then if you really need it, and you drink caffeine,
it's like we call the power nap.
You take just like a shot of caffeine and espresso,
because it takes about 20 minutes in your system to kick in.
So you have your 20 minute nap, and when you wake up,
you have the caffeine in your body,
and you have this little rest.
That's quite powerful.
Oh my gosh, this is so wonderful to hear this from you,
because this is what I do.
And I was like, is it wrong, is it right?
But it is valid, folks.
And I said so.
And I need to tell my husband,
three hour naps are not a thing.
Can you stop with that, please?
No, no, no, three hours now, yeah, definitely.
What we wanna avoid is redoing,
I mean, you could do a full sleep cycle.
It's almost better to do a full sleep cycle of 90 minutes
than being waking up in the middle of a deep sleep.
You'll feel better with a full sleep cycle.
But if you struggle to fall asleep at night,
or you wake up in the middle of the night,
that's probably not a good idea.
I definitely, I feel weird after napping.
So if I take a nap in the day,
if I didn't have decent sleep at nighttime,
I really, like I wake up, I'm disorientated, I'm groggy,
I'm like, what is going on?
So I always say, I just can't nap,
I'm not a napping kind of person.
Whereas my husband, if he's not had a great night's sleep,
he'll take a few hours in the middle of the day.
If he hasn't had a great night,
he'll just throw that night's sleep
right in the middle of the day.
Exactly.
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Now back to the chat.
Exactly.
But you know that's the thing as well,
I'm not a nap person, I hate that.
And I went through insomnia for so many years
that I needed to nap, but you don't have to nap.
You can just rest, you know?
And it will give you the same thing.
You don't have to actually really sleep.
You can just like lie down for like 10, 15 minutes,
either listening to like calming music
or just the point is not to be on your phone or whatever,
because you still, you know,
activate your brain and everything.
So you're not resting.
If you're on your phone or like watching TV,
this is not resting.
But if you just lie down or sit on your sofa,
do breathing exercise, listen to something,
or just quiet your mind for a little bit,
that will be so beneficial for you.
You don't actually have to nap, you know?
And because I get that, I hate to nap as well.
I just, I hate the feeling.
Yeah.
You mentioned human design.
Now I'm intrigued.
I know absolutely nothing of it,
other than what you mentioned
right before we started recording.
So for people like me who don't know what it is,
can you share a little bit of insight?
Okay, so human design, basically it's an ancient thing
will take the Kabbal, the astrology, the I Ching,
and the Hindu chakra system.
And this is mixed with modern science
of like biology, quantum physics.
And so basically, human design
give us your energetic blueprint.
And it can give us a good insight of your personality,
how you make decision, how your body function.
And it's just, I use it in my practice,
because when there's different type in human design,
I can just see how the person operates
and how that person can be living in alignment
with their true nature.
So I use that base to really then be able to coach them
to be the best self, basically.
And so what are the main types in human design?
Like what are the different,
we all know astrological zodiac signs, right?
Like what are the types of human design?
So there's the generator and the manifesting generator,
so which is about 70% of the population.
Then there's the projector, 20%,
the manifestor, 9%, and reflector,
very rare, like 1% of the population.
So the generator and manifesting generator
are like the energy being in our society.
They are the one, they are the builder,
like they are the worker.
They have access to a constant flow of energy
within themselves.
As I mentioned previously to you,
they have to do things that light them up.
Obviously, we all do things
that we don't wanna do during the day,
but generally you need to be doing things you love.
And when you do things you love,
you have access to like so much energy,
like a lot of energy.
A projector, a manifestor, and reflector,
they're not what we call no energy beings.
So basically the energy really reflects
right throughout the day.
So they can be feeling very energetic in the morning
and then the energy drop for a couple of hours
and the energy comes back.
And they need more rest.
They need to really, really prioritize their rest and sleep,
a bit more than generator and manifesting generator.
Doesn't mean that generator and manifesting generator
are not tired.
They're definitely tired as well.
But there's a different approach to sleep and rest,
especially when it comes to nighttime routine.
A generator and manifesting generator,
they need to use all the energy before going to bed.
So otherwise they will be lying there,
looking at the ceiling and they will take an hour
to fall asleep.
So I have many clients like this
and it comes from also childhood
because their parents would tell them,
you go to bed at that time.
They haven't used all the energy, they're not tired.
You go there, they lie down
and it take them a long time to fall asleep.
And they think it's normal and they become like adults
and they can't fall asleep quickly
because they went to bed too early.
They haven't built enough sleep drive during the day.
So that's for these people,
a wind down routine is not necessary.
It's not necessary.
Like you can have it, it's great if it makes you feel good.
If you enjoy doing, fine.
But you don't need that to come to come down.
You know what I mean?
It's much better that you use all your energy
and you go to bed when you're feeling exhausted.
Wait until you feel tired, really tired
and then you will fall asleep like this.
That sounds like me, my husband,
has this habit, we'll get into bed.
I think for him it takes some time to wind down.
For me, I'll get into bed and as I'm drifting off,
he'll say something to me or wake me up.
And I'm like, that was just so quick.
We just laid down and I'm like, I'm tired.
And because you fall asleep too quickly,
I mean, I don't know.
I don't think there is a too quickly.
I think that's the ideal, right?
Yeah, I think it's the ideal.
We, a lot of sleep experts tell you
that if you fall asleep in less than five minutes,
it means that you're sleep deprived.
Yes and no, because I do think,
I've seen it with my client,
they generate a mephistine generator,
they fall asleep very quickly.
And if they sleep well and they feel good the next day,
it's all good.
Now, when it's not healthy, it's for projector,
manifester, and reflector.
We need, because I'm a projector,
we need a wind down period
because we can't come from being high energy.
Like if I go to an event at night,
I can't switch off straight away.
It will take me at least like 45 minutes an hour
to just calm down and be able to then go to sleep.
So for those three times,
if we go to bed exhausted, it's a bad sign for us.
It means we've been pushing way too much during the day
and our deep sleep is not gonna be as good.
So for us, it's crucial that we manage our energy
during the day and to go to bed not feeling exhausted.
That's why there's so many burns out
for like projector, manifester, and reflector.
We'll try to keep up with the rest of the population,
but we're not built in the same way.
So it's not better, it's not worth,
it's just we use our energy in a different way.
So once we're aware of that,
we're actually very efficient in the way we use our energy.
But for us, resting, napping is good.
We need that.
We actually need to have this time
in the middle of the day where we can just slow down.
It's really beneficial for us
and it's not gonna disturb our secret rhythm later
as if you do for a generator or manifesting generator.
And often generator, manifester, generator
doesn't necessarily feel the need to nap or the rest.
Some do, but it's not a common thing for them.
I feel like I'm probably one of those who-
Yeah, I would say probably yes.
Or definitely, and your husband is probably a projector.
I was like.
You mentioned that you suffered from insomnia.
Is that the reason why you got into the field of sleep?
Yes, I feel like sleep has always been bad sleep
has been part of my life.
So I started having some young one when I was like 13 years old.
And at the time my parents like, sent me to see my GP.
At the time, doctors didn't have much knowledge around sleep.
So they didn't really know what to tell me
apart from offering like sleeping pings later in my 20s,
not at the age of 13, obviously.
Or I went to see a psychologist just trying to figure out,
but no one really understood sleep.
We were not talking about sleep at that time.
So, but again, when you're young, it's okay.
You have energy.
You're young, you have energy.
So I was just so used to waking up at 3 a.m.
not be able to fall back asleep.
And then in my early 20s, same.
And I started to go see different alternative doctors.
I'm just like, I'm gonna try everything.
It's been like a 10 years of trial and error,
see what works, what doesn't work.
And I was so passionate about the topic
because I was reading about sleep.
Sleep was constantly part of me
that I remember being pregnant with my first child in London
and me telling my husband,
I need to do something about sleep.
Because no one is talking about sleep.
Everyone's talking about exercising.
Everyone's eating healthy.
I've seen all my friends that like very good at that,
but they don't mind about not sleeping well.
And, but they can't be as perfect.
Like their diet can't be as good
because they're just not sleeping well.
So they're not making the right decision.
Did you know they crave more sugar, things like that.
Exercises, all these things,
the muscle can't repair and all that thing.
So when I was in London, pregnant with my first child,
I went back to study insomnia, sleep disorder.
And I just, you know, I loved it.
And then I moved to New York
and I always thought sleep is not the problem.
Sleep is a consequence.
It comes from, I'm passionate about understanding
the roots of the problem, you know.
So that's why when I got to New York,
I decided to train as a health coach,
not to become a health coach.
I knew I wasn't, but I wanted the knowledge.
I wanted to understand how foods impact,
how like, you know, the holistic approach to sleep.
That's why I call my business Sleep Body Mind,
because everything is linked together.
You know, sleep is just the consequence.
So we need to understand how the body
and the mind function together to be able to sleep well.
So yeah, I've always, it always felt like a curse
in me not being sleeping well.
I was like, why am I the only one?
Like I've cried many, many days, you know,
of like, I just want to sleep.
But you know, again, this is now part of like,
but don't, you know, I use it for my business
and passion about it.
I want to bring awareness of the importance of sleep
for people.
And I love that you said, you know,
that you knew fit people, you were meeting fit people
who had their workouts good, had their diets good,
and just weren't sleeping.
Because that happens in my line of work all the time, right?
We have people come in and say, you know,
I'm super healthy.
I'm at F45 five times a week and I eat, you know,
nutrition kitchen meals and everything is super,
oh, but I sleep four hours a night.
And I was like, I'm gonna stop you right there
because that tells me that you are not healthy.
You know, you're not giving your body time to grow muscle,
which is what you need for long-term health.
You're not giving your food time to digest,
which is what you need for optimal gut health.
It's like, when you tell me you're not sleeping,
the first thing I hear is a red flag
for your long-term wellness.
And I think that it has become weirdly a badge of honor
to not sleep.
And we need to all work together to rewrite the script
that it is in fact a really red glaring problem.
Oh, totally.
And that's the thing, how many entrepreneurs have heard,
oh, I'm only sleep four or five hours and I'm able,
people don't realize the impact on the long-term impact.
Yes, we can all sleep only five hours for like a few years.
We can do that.
We actually can do that.
But what we don't realize is all the things
that is affecting, you know.
Obviously, when you tell people, diabetes, obesity,
all these things, heart attack,
it's just so far away from them.
They don't feel like concern.
But then when you start talking about,
you're not processing information the same way,
your mood is changing, you're not productive at work,
you can't be as creative.
All these things, then people will say,
oh yeah, I see that.
I see the cities happening, I'm slower at work,
and I can't make the right decision.
Because when you're sleep deprived,
it's really difficult to make wise decision
and really think through a problem.
Same one comes with, we've realized that
when we have trauma, things like that,
this is during the ramp sleep,
that actually sleep acts as a balm,
and it helps to remove the age of the event that happens.
So it helps us to process event a little bit better.
Obviously, it doesn't solve everything,
but if you don't sleep, just don't let your,
the opportunity for this to happen.
And it's interesting, you said that some entrepreneurs
say they only sleep four or five hours.
Can you imagine if they got like eight hours of sleep,
how much more productive they would actually be?
Exactly, and things are changing though.
We see now more and more like CEO, big companies,
and things that say, I sleep eight hours,
I prioritize my sleep, which I think it's a great message.
Because I think there's only like
less than 1% of the population that have a specific gene
that enable them to be able to sleep only five hours
without damaging their health.
But it's barely like no one, that's the thing, right?
So yeah, definitely need at least seven hours,
between seven and nine hours.
Again, you need to know yourself.
Some people like 30 minutes can change everything.
For myself, I know I need eight or 8.30.
If I sleep seven or seven and a half,
you will be like, oh, that's good.
You say, I know that's good, but I'm not at my peak.
I just know that, I feel it.
So you just try to make sure you know exactly
how much you need per night.
Can I ask really quickly, see,
so we each kind of have a sweet spot
for how many hours we need, and I definitely get that.
Is there any, like you said,
having a consistent wake up time and bedtime obviously helps.
Is there any research about a better wake up time
and bedtime, so for example, here in Singapore,
the sun rises at seven, right?
Where it's seven to seven here.
That's when the sun sets, that's when the sun rises.
Is there something to getting your wake up time
closer to seven, closer to sunrise?
Is there something?
Yeah, it does obviously, because back in the day,
that's what we used to do, like long, long time ago.
We all align our sleep with, you know,
sunrise, sunlight, all these things.
And also there's a thing, like the sleep that you get
before midnight is really powerful.
That's the thing, right?
So if you go to bed at midnight and you sleep until eight,
you'll be like, okay, I've got my eight hours of sleep,
but the quality before midnight is much stronger.
It hides like a double of your deep sleep.
That's what we say, like, you know, in the sleep industry,
like you really can't double.
So it's better to go to bed at 10,
and you know, waking up at six,
then do it like at midnight at eight.
Now some people are like night whole,
some people are early morning.
So you can't constantly, you can't constantly change
how your body function.
Do you know what I mean?
It's just trying to be aware of like,
if you're night whole, don't go at two a.m. though.
Do you know, it's just, you probably will need to work
on your secretive rhythm and try to put it back
a little bit, but yeah, that sleep before midnight
is really, it's really powerful.
I love that there's science behind that,
because one of the just colloquialisms
that I always tell my clients is make sure you go to bed
and wake up in different days.
So like, if it's already tomorrow, it's too late.
It's too late, yeah, I like that one.
Yeah, it's an easy one to remember.
So it's really weird, you're talking about the chronotypes,
because my husband's a night owl,
and I'm a morning person, I usually feel like
we're on like two different time zones,
but I can go to bed early, wake up early, and feel great,
and he definitely struggles if I try to get him to go,
if I try to get him to go to bed earlier.
But he will definitely need to sort of sleep in longer
as well, because he can't function at the same
sort of level as me.
For you, what would you say is the sort of biggest
contributor to poor sleep for most people?
Oh, there's many.
Probably like pre-bedtime, you know, wrong sleep aging,
so like, you know, a bit like lifestyle, you know,
alcohol, caffeine, all that things, but stress.
Stress is a big one with my client.
People are having a lot in their mind, a busy mind,
like many people really struggle to switch off at night.
So that is the big one.
It's like, you know, it just, people have bad habits
around sleep, and you know, stress, yeah,
stress is definitely the biggest one.
But like by stress, you actually, you mean kids, right?
So like that's a euphemism for kids, or?
Kids, work, but yeah, definitely kids.
And it's probably, I'm guessing the stress thing
tends to be mainly women, especially, so.
Well, men stress too, but I was saying women,
probably more, and for whatever reason,
it really shows up in our ability to sleep properly.
And as women, it's like our hormones as well,
like really, it's just changing throughout the month.
And it's good to remember, nobody sleep well
through the night, every night.
Like, you know, people want to be like,
oh, I want to sleep perfectly every night.
It doesn't happen, you know?
It's also, it's okay to wake up in the middle of the night
if you go back to sleep, like within 20 minutes.
It's nothing to be worried about, you know?
What you don't want either is create like sleep anxiety.
And that's my thing about sleep hygiene,
which as much as I think it's a good basic for everyone,
sleep hygiene is not gonna cure insomnia.
People having a strong insomnia,
probably already done good sleep hygiene.
They're doing all the right thing.
And sometimes it can create even more stress,
be like, oh, I had a little bit of alcohol,
it means I'm not gonna sleep.
Or, you know, I went to bed a bit later.
And you don't want to create that as well,
because you also want to enjoy your life, you know?
So you don't want to put too much pressure on,
you have to sleep well every night.
And again, even if you don't sleep well, it's okay.
You're gonna be okay the next day.
We're all built to be able to sleep through the night properly
and to cope with a little bit of like,
I'll sleep the next day.
So let's not try to make it perfect.
It'd be like exercising, eating.
You don't have to eat perfectly well every day to be healthy.
It's okay to have some little moment
where you enjoy yourself.
If you, the point is to always go back on track.
So, yeah.
So for you, you said that you would sort of wake up
around 3 a.m. and then struggle to get back to sleep.
What steps did you take to sort of help you break that habit,
if it's a habit or that issue or whatever it was
that was causing you to wake up at 3 a.m. and then, you know?
Well, for me, that was stress and anxiety.
It took me years to understand
because I don't feel stressed during the day.
I just don't feel it.
But obviously, I can see with, you know,
when you track your sleep and things like that,
you can actually see your level of like,
stress and everything.
But it's just addressing that during the day.
For me, that's always been like,
and also not looking at the watch, like the clock.
That's the worst thing you can do.
If you wake up in the middle of the night
and you look at what time is it,
you're gonna start distressing.
You start working backwards from the next day.
You've got like two or three more hours.
What if I don't fall asleep in the next 10 minutes?
I'm gonna be terrible the next day.
I'm not gonna be able to perform at work
and all that thing.
So don't look at the clock.
And I always try and remember myself, like, it's okay.
It's just okay to wake up.
I will go back to sleep.
I will be fine tomorrow.
So obviously, there's deeper work you have to do.
Like someone, you know, wake up every day at 3 a.m.
for like a month.
Definitely have to work on that, on, you know,
the secret and where they're in everything,
making sure what they're doing during the day,
they're doing the right thing.
Are they exercising enough, moving their body,
doing their thing during the day that, you know.
So there's a lot of things to, there's not a quick answer.
Do you know what I mean?
Because it's highly personal.
And that's why when I use human design,
it gives me access to, there's,
we all have different center
and they're related to different aspect of our life.
So for instance, the root center,
which is there, the chakra at the bottom,
we can see how people manage stress and pressure.
So people that for them is defined,
they actually manage the stress better than others,
which mean, okay, sometimes feel a bit more stressed,
but usually it's like this.
People for who is open, like me, I go like this.
There is no like, you know, a baseline that is quite steady.
So that's the thing I really have to work on.
Then I can look at your head chakra,
your head, throat, hasina,
and if it's defined, it means that
there's a lot of activation in your mind.
And that's for instance, a client that
so much in their mind at night and they can't fall asleep,
but they're built to have a lot in their mind.
So now it's like, how can we work with that?
How can we work with your busy mind during the day
to make sure at night, you're capable of switching it off?
So I can see one of the centers called the splint
is your human system.
Do you have a more like,
is your human system, you're more prone to get sick
and you need more self care than others?
So someone has defined splint
is usually have a stronger human system.
So they need self care,
but not as much as someone that has an open splint.
So it's all these different things
that I look at in your human design.
And it gives me a bit of an overview,
an overview of like, who you are.
And then I combine that with what you do.
And then I just try to understand
like where the sleep issue comes from.
It's all so fascinating.
On the sort of flip side,
are there any supplements that you either take
or recommend that can help people
who are struggling with sleep?
You can still take mannism,
but I will say that I'm trying to not make people
dependent on anything when it comes to sleep.
Like melatonin,
some people would like take melatonin every night,
but if you take melatonin every night,
your body is not then producing it naturally,
and then when you don't have your melatonin,
you probably start like stressing,
I'm not gonna be able to sleep.
So I'm not against all of these things,
but you have to be aware
that you don't wanna become dependent on anything.
You know what I mean?
Because we are all capable to be able to sleep.
So we don't need these things.
It's nice to have them sometime
if you feel a bit stressed and things like,
okay, take some mannism,
it will relax you and help you,
but you don't wanna be dependent on that.
That's great.
And I feel like you've given us so much information,
so much wisdom,
and obviously all this information on human design,
which I had never really heard of before.
So it's been a real pleasure.
So thank you so much.
But before we say goodbye,
we do have one final question,
and that is, what's your 40s formula?
What would you say to people out there who are listening,
who are struggling with sleep,
what can they do,
and what steps can they take
to really sort of optimize their health?
So what's your 40s formula?
Well, when it comes to sleep,
I would say self-care,
making sure you exercise,
you eat healthy,
don't drink too much alcohol,
limit caffeine and all that thing.
Make sure you have a real sleep bedtime routine.
Just really be aware of prioritizing your sleep,
because when you do,
that really enhance everything in your life.
But also, we all have periods of time
when we're not sleep well.
It's happened to everyone.
We're all stressed with work,
the kids, personal thing.
So let's not just try focus on,
when something like this happen,
when you don't sleep well,
trying to be, oh, now I can't sleep.
It's happened to everyone.
So just move on,
and you're gonna go by here and have a good sleep.
Sleep resilience, I like that.
You will sleep again.
Thank you so much.
It's been so lovely having you here.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Bye.
This is Paul, our editor.
He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy,
listening to the ramblings of 12 older women
on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex.
So Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation?
Sleep.
Hello.
So, sleep is something I guess that is important
when our body repairs.
And Helen talked about the circadian rhythm,
when we should be going to sleep and resting,
with sleep being important and one to two hours of deep sleep,
two hours of REM sleep,
and well, to basically not feel like shit.
Personally, I don't have a fixed sleeping pattern.
I'm kind of guilty about it,
mainly because I'm a freelancer.
I have to be up at different times.
I have to do different sets of work.
And yeah, it's something that I really hope I can fix,
at least, you know,
because for me, I'm going back to school.
So it's definitely something I need to fix.
But hey, you know, thanks for the reminder.
Make sure you catch sleep.
If you're like youngsters like me, don't sleep too late.
And of course, if you're in your 40s,
make sure you get in your circadian rhythm.
So catch you guys next time.
I'll see you guys soon.
Goodbye.
Guys, you know how much we love coffee?
And if you want to share some love,
you know you can get us one.
Just visit buymeacoffee.com slash the 40s formula.
Cheers.
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Love the Aussie accent feature.
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Bye.
Perfect.
Thank you.
That was lovely.
Thank you so much for all that wisdom.
I feel like it would be so reassuring for people to hear
that it's like all is not lost.
It's so funny because I've got so much I want to share
but you know when you're in the moment
you know you're like how can I put everything you know.
It's always the way.
Shall I do an underneath thing?
Oh yes.
There we go.
A bit of a limbo.
You grab your bag and then I'll sneak out.